Topic: The Airing of Grievances.

[Evan_B]

I had jokingly mentioned Zelda Wii U being the last game I would play several times previously, but after last night's news, and several realizations about this hobby and fan base in general, I have decided to post an airing of grievances, as well as my final stance on Wii U and NX.

For the longest time, I thought being a fan of Nintendo was something special- I loved their games, the whimsical aesthetics and absurd concepts they enforced. I enjoyed the variety in their software lineup, even if it wasn't all suited to my tastes. I loved their controllers, the pace at which they introduced new features, all of it. I used to think being a fan of Nintendo was worthwhile.

Now, I firmly believe being a Nintendo fan is suffering.

Either you staunchly defend their decisions or accept them as reality, or you hate the sluggish, irrelevant business they have become. No matter what, you are suffering through mediocrity. I have seen my favorite franchises decay, the third party support dry up, and worst of all, I have seen the Wii U. Now, I have also gone on the record saying that I love the Wii U- and I do. It has given me my favorite Mario, Donkey Kong, Pikmin, and Smash Bros. It has expanded my love of independent games as well as third party titles. But it is the ultimate representation of irrelevance among my friends and within the industry. I can't make a room with my friends in Splatoon because not enough of them own the system. I can't compete in the Smash 4 scene because no one owns the system. I can barely get a decent discussion going on Miiverse because no one takes the service seriously.

But that's beside the point. I'm tired of coming to these forums and seeing the ridiculous state of the company and its dwindling fan base. And now, seeing that Nintendo couldn't even pull the Wii U together, instead jumping ship to NX and holding the game I have been waiting for back because they have to ready it for NX launch- I'll admit, I'm disheartened. I'm tired of giving so much of a **** about video games and my favorite developer/publisher. I think it's time to take a step away from the medium.

I will not purchase whatever the NX is until the next Nintendo console us announced- and even then, I might not do so unless the library is damn good. I don't care if I miss out on the Monster Hunter community, or the initial feedback on the next Monolith Soft title, or the hype of Intelligent Systems suddenly becoming a good developer again. I have come to care too much about how Nibtendo sucks, and about supporting them in whatever way I can. Because they don't really seem to care about my preferences- and that's understandable. They're a business, and they probably want to make money on a larger audience. But I have decided to detach myself from this unhealthy obsession with a medium that I used to actually ENJOY. Maybe, in doing so, I can learn to love it again.

So yes, Zelda Wii U will be the last game I buy for a long time, maybe ever. I'm kinda tired of video games. I'm definitely tired of Nintendo.

The transformation is complete. I am now Ian Sane.

[Phil]

I think many Nintendo fans suffer from the idea that they think Nintendo, a multimillion dollar company, is their friend. Really, this is one of the only fan groups that does this towards an intangible, faceless company, and it's been sad and awfully pathetic seeing this. This is why they take everything so personally when Nintendo messes up, which they do all the time.

[Evan_B]

Well, that's the point. I came to realize this, and I'm moving on. It's one thing to cling to a former allegiance that was fabricated or based on prior concepts of that allegiance- it's another to just realize that it's not a personal affront against you- times change. Media changes. If Zelda is great, well, it will at least give me hope for the future. If not, it's just another reminder that it's time to give up the hobby.

[Phil]

I think if you enjoy playing games, you should still be a part of the hobby. Just don't get so invested in it. I mean, Nintendo's great games from the past won't disappear if you don't like the way they are going. They'll always be there for you to enjoy. Plus, there are so many other publishers, though none with the same output as Nintendo, that produce many charming games.

[Ian Sane]

I didn't predict that Nintendo would move the NX to 2017 but I'm not surprised at all that they did.  Like I can't guess what stupid thing they'll do next but I feel pretty confident that when they do something it will be stupid.

Nintendo at their peak was the best videogame developer of all time.  That's why they have the fanbase they do and that's why I became a fan.  They're not there now but it feels like they could be.  They still have talent.  You can see it in the little details like the level designs of their games.  They seem held back by questionable decisions from management.  The company really doesn't seem to want to keep up with technology or user expectations.  Deep down I think they would work better as a third party developer as they seem to love making games but over the years have demonstrated that they don't want to do what is necessary to make contemporary consoles.

I've made it clear I didn't like the Wii/DS era.  I had issues with the Cube era but mostly liked it.  The Wii U era is, uh, yeah.  Nintendo was just so great at their peak that I still want them to get their **** together and make a comeback.  One reason I still follow them is that the Wii U was such a disaster you figure if it wasn't going to be a wake up call, nothing was.  The Wii was a success so they weren't going to learn from that but it's worth waiting to see what comes after the Wii U because Nintendo would have to do something different to try to bounce back from it.  And as morbid as it is, I didn't like Iwata's leadership and now we have a new president so shouldn't I see where he might take them?

I figure the NX ends up being either Nintendo's comeback or it's their last console.  So I might as well stick around and see what happens.

[broodwars]

I came into this generation incredibly frustrated with Nintendo after the Wii years, where it felt like Nintendo sacrificed every core value they seemed to hold about the player experience in the pursuit of chasing after an incredibly temporary audience. And on top of that, their software lineup often felt spotty at best towards the end of the console's lifecycle. When Nintendo announced the Wii U, despite the new controller Nintendo seemed to indicate that they had actually learned from the Wii's issues, that they were making real strides to improve themselves

4 years later, Nintendo's still sacrificing playability in their titles for the sake of letting Miyamoto play with his toys, 3rd party relations seem to be worse than ever, and Nintendo never did figure out how to develop original HD titles in a timely manner. The Wii U itself was damn near unplayable for its first year until Nintendo finally patched the slow & clunky user interface. Hell, the only thing keeping Nintendo afloat these days are literal toys, toys that already seem to have come out of fad. After all these years being a frustrated Nintendo fan, it feels like Nintendo has finally given up, that they no longer have a place in the gaming industry. I don't regret buying my Wii U, but outside of these forums I rarely think about it. I have a lineup of games I could be playing on it, but nothing about the Wii U experience excites me to put them in and play like the continual stream of games I have on other systems. I'm sure the games are fine. I'm sure they're enjoyable. I just don't care anymore when there are so many more enticing options elsewhere. The industry has changed, and Nintendo doesn't seem to have an identity anymore outside of pissing people off with its choices.

The NX might be the shining city on the hill we had hoped the Wii U would be. It might simply "exist" like the Wii U did. At this point, though, it would take a monumental sea change at Nintendo (like all their aging, stubborn developers like Miyamoto, etc. retiring) to make me care anymore. I waited for Nintendo and held out hope that they could change, that they could improve, for too many years. Now, I just don't care anymore. That's the legacy of the Wii U.

[Enner]

This is the price you pay for caring to much :p

Joking aside. No, seriously. You cared too much, and in a direction that was to be run over by where Nintendo was going as a company.

I'm not blaming or disparaging those above and other below for caring as such. In a way, I'm kinda envious because the two Nintendo consoles I didn't own in their time and don't own now are the Super Nintendo Entertainment System and the Nintendo 64. I think it's safe to say that I will never understand your deep grievances when I haven't experienced those systems, especially the SNES, in an intimate manner when they were contemporary.

Instead, I spent time with a hand-down SEGA Genesis and fragging bots in FPS games on a Gateway PC. Even during the Gamecube era, I had regular access to an Xbox to play Panzer Dragoon Orta and Burnout 3: Takedown. I didn't get a Nintendo Wii until 2010. I built a PC for gaming 2 years before that. Eventually, I got a hold of a Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 for cheap. Oh, and I had a Game Boy Color, a Game Boy Advance, and a Nintendo 3DS throughout these years. But no Nintendo DS.

My video game relationship with Nintendo has always been in the context of having other platforms to play on. I see now that this has allowed me the privilege and safety of distance whenever the questionable decisions and schedules of Nintendo arise. I have no doubt that if was a Nintendo-only video gamer, I would be airing grievances.

I'm not a Nintendo-only videiot, and I think that has helped my appreciation for Nintendo. From the sublime platforming of Super Mario Galaxy 2, the joyous flight in Wii Sports Resort, the vast exploration of Xenoblade Chronicles X, and the exciting colors of Splatoon, I have been able to enjoy much of the great things and questionable things of Nintendo. Strangely enough, over these recent years with the Wii U and 3DS, I've solidified the belief that much of the games Nintendo makes or shepherds are some of the few games I definitely want to play. I can live without playing the next Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed, but I need to play the next Kirby game or big thing from Monolith Soft.

Again, I can safely say this because I have a PlayStation 4 now where I can indulge in Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain.

Oh, and I can smooth over the super questionable Nintendo news by spending LP in Love Live! School Idol Festival, Brave Frontier, or other cancerous free-to-play mobage garbage that I keep on my smartphone because I have no control over my video game compulsions (The numbers keep going up!).

You have cared too much, and I think it's a good thing to be getting some distance. Hey, maybe you can try playing a mobile game like Clash Royale or Granblue Fantasy everyday for a month to see if you like it!

[Ian Sane]

I think personal experience has a lot to do with it.  I'm always going on about third party support but I've been playing Nintendo consoles since the NES.  Nintendo's first two generations set certain expectations on what I consider an acceptable level of support.  Someone younger than me that came in in the N64 era wouldn't have those same expectations.  Hell, they "signed on" to Nintendo with the understanding that it's primarily a first party only affair with the odd third party release.  If they had a problem with the weak third party support they wouldn't have become a Nintendo fan.  For someone like me it's like the terms changed.  "Hey I didn't agree to this first party only thing!  You guys had great third party support for ten years!"  So I'm waiting for things to go back to the way they're "supposed to" and tons of fans around me are befuddled because I'm mad about what they have always seen as the status quo.

[MagicCow64]

Regarding people taking Nintendo's actions too personally, it's true, but it's not unique to Nintendo. Folks also have weird strong attachments to the Playstation and Xbox brands (though for less sound intrinsic reasons). There was a much-mocked psychology study awhile back that stated that many "hardcore gamers" developed defensive relationship-type feelings for gaming consoles, and I actually think there might be something to that. Spending hours interacting with something that sets off happy receptors in your brains really does seem to drive extra-normal attachment that is out of line with comparable entertainments or hobbies.

Certainly, though, today's news has given me a queasy feeling about Nintendo's future. But that's mainly because I think they're the last light in the universe in many ways regarding large-scale game development. I've never been more indifferent toward AAA game development. I've never cared for online gaming, co-op or multiplayer. Microtransaction and DLC and always online practices are revolting and have had an obvious deleterious effect on game design. After finishing The Witcher 3, I don't know if I can bring myself to play another massive open-world title. Nintendo's been slipping down the same slopes, but more slowly. And their major games and still fairly pure. The WiiU has some of the best games they've ever published.

I'm also in the camp that thought Wii had a great library and that motion controls were certainly worth trying. Like any disruptive technique in art there's going to be overshooting and eventual synthesis. If anything they've backed off too much (it sounds to me like IR aiming Starfox with Nunchuk movement would have been better). Likewise I think the Gamepad is perfectly fine and a preferable enhancement to menu management in many cases. I really don't think many games have been particularly compromised by either wiimotes or gamepads. If anything Nintendo's quality of output for traditional games took a dip in the Gamecube era and recovered afterward.

I hope the NX exceeds expectations and allows Nintendo to keep doing their thing indefinitely, but if it doesn't, it doesn't. They had a good run. My interests and priorities are wildly misaligned with the "core" market that is wagging the dog, and I'm fine with moving on when and if the time comes.

[Evan_B]

I think I got my point across. I was so deeply disappointed by today's news that I stopped, checked my privilege, and realized this has gone too far, and that a lot of those feelings kind of stemmed from the whole experience of the Wii U and spending entirely too much time on the gaming forums of this (and other) sites, rather than actually playing and enjoying games. So yeah, I'm gonna need a break.

However, as Phil said, my favorite classics will always be there, and I have no doubt I'll go back to Vagrant Story, Chrono Trigger, Mutant Mudds, and more in my hiatus. But I can't keep getting so emotionally invested in the constant stream of news. The best way to handle that is to detach myself and focus on other things.

[ShyGuy]

Festivus for the rest of us?

Wake me up when we get to the feats of strength.

I'm mad that Nintendo is going to have yet another lousy Holiday season, leading potential customers to spend their money on Playstation or Xbox instead.

Who am I kidding, they won't be spending their money on Xbox.

[ejamer]

Yep, lots of people here who can relate.


I'm also ready for a break from gaming - not from playing games, but from keeping up with what's happening in the industry. But look at the bright side: if you are anything like me, then you've probably got enough games in your collection to hold you over for literally years without getting bored.

[Wah]

I really hope the FF7 remake is amazing and Pikman 4 etc. Are all truly coming out on the NX otherwise,  or Nintendo's fucked.

I really want a new Pokémon ranger game Nintendo!
Or stadium, or colosseum....

[ThePerm]

I have a life, so if Nintendo is in drought then I just do other things. Deep down I have a suppressed longing to take over the video game industry and direct it in a pro-Nintendo fashion. I've learned not to get too far into it, because it is a murky laborious time hole. Hopefully, they just learn their lessons, or hire more competent people.

[King of Twitch]

Pathetic. If you survived the N64, you can survive anything. Pick up some Gamecube or Wii games you missed out on, browse the eshop, or donate some games to a children's hospital to hold yourself over until the megatons drop.

Remember the time you had nothing except Smash, Perfect Dark, MM, and Paper Mario to look forward to. Remember...

[Evan_B]

Pathetic. If you survived the N64, you can survive anything. Pick up some Gamecube or Wii games you missed out on, browse the eshop, or donate some games to a children's hospital to hold yourself over until the megatons drop.

Remember the time you had nothing except Smash, Perfect Dark, MM, and Paper Mario to look forward to. Remember...

Which are all good games?

Listen, I wasn't involved in the gaming community back then, and I didn't own ANY of the fifth generation consoles. So I don't remember that. I do remember the GameCube, Wii, and DS, though, and I had much less involvement in the community and news portions during those times. I was a casual gamer than enjoyed the most committal games, AKA RPGs. But getting really deep into news and the community of gaming now has been the worst thing for my love of the actual medium, in retrospect. Which is why I'm going to back off.

[King of Twitch]

But getting really deep into news and the community of gaming now has been the worst thing for my love of the actual medium, in retrospect. Which is why I'm going to back off.

Don't let the negative nancies ruin it for you. Tune them out, plug in, and GAME ON

[rlse9]

Pathetic. If you survived the N64, you can survive anything.

Shouldn't a hobby be something you can just enjoy, not something that you have to survive?

[Ian Sane]

Pathetic. If you survived the N64, you can survive anything. Pick up some Gamecube or Wii games you missed out on, browse the eshop, or donate some games to a children's hospital to hold yourself over until the megatons drop.

Remember the time you had nothing except Smash, Perfect Dark, MM, and Paper Mario to look forward to. Remember...

I found the N64 years a lot easier to deal with since I feel that's Nintendo's peak as a game developer.  You waited for that one game to come out in a several month stretch... but it ended up being a GOTY contender almost every time.  I feel with the Wii U it's like the same schedule but the games aren't as good.  Though my personal circumstances were such that I was in high school during the N64 years so I didn't exactly have the money to go buy every game I wanted.  Droughts are a lot worse when you're an adult with disposable income.

If I wasn't involved in the gaming community there would be a whole bunch of great games that I tried based on reviews and recommendations that I never would have known about and THAT would have sucked.

[King of Twitch]

Pathetic. If you survived the N64, you can survive anything.

Shouldn't a hobby be something you can just enjoy, not something that you have to survive?

True, but you can't enjoy every hobby every day. No company can pump out continuous product like that.

If you have disposable income and you're an adult, go do something else besides bee and moan to people that have nothing to do with the issue. After 10 years of not getting results, it's long past time to move on.

[pokepal148]

Pathetic. If you survived the N64, you can survive anything.

Shouldn't a hobby be something you can just enjoy, not something that you have to survive?

True, but you can't enjoy every hobby every day. No company can pump out continuous product like that.

Besides porn websites.

[Khushrenada]

Someone's gotta give the people what they want.

[Mop it up]

I learned this lesson a long time ago, probably back in the early GameCube days or maybe even N64. I was still growing up then of course, so I think it was a part of that process.

Brand loyalty has never made much sense to me. It isn't like companies are ever loyal back, nor do they claim to be. Therefore, I treat everything as an in-the-moment basis. I buy a product I want now, with no expectation that future products from said company will interest me. This is also why I wait to buy systems until the current library is what I want, not future releases.

Therefore, I feel no betrayal if a company starts making different products. I just search for what I want elsewhere. I actually would not say I am a fan of Nintendo, and don't think I have ever claimed as much. They just so happen to offer the most games I want to play. Unfortunately, most other companies don't make the same kinds of games they do these days, so I don't have much choice when they do stupid things like the Wii U. Whatevs, it is what it is, and still better than an alternative.

So yeah, I can't exactly say I can relate. It's just vidja games, I can't and don't take them seriously.