Author Topic: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...  (Read 44258 times)

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Offline lolmonade

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #100 on: January 14, 2016, 10:18:15 AM »
I got a chance to see the movie over the break.  I enjoyed it, and have no problem with it being an extension of the original trilogy.  I think the overall story works well enough, and I reserved my expectations a little bit before seeing it, so I was satisfied with the movie as a whole.  Also, so awesome that the battles felt like they had some actual weight to them, specifically the light saber fights.  I have a few nitpicks.


1) The dialogue was pretty bad sometimes.  One part that definitely sticks out is when Finn admits to Rey that he was a storm trooper that defected.  He goes on a long winded paragraph explaining his feelings and how scared he is, etc.  A bad case of telling instead of showing, and in the original trilogy, didn't recall many (if any) situations where these kinds of situations happened, or at least broken into an actual conversation instead of a monologue.


2)  Some of the relationships felt a little forced.  Namely Finn & Poe, after spending all of a few hours together, act as if they're reunited best friends when they meet on the Resistance's base.  Just a bit jarring.




Overall, the movie felt like someone's best impersonation/interpretation of a Star Wars film, rather than if episode 7 was made right after 6.  A story using the characters and locations in the Star Wars universe.  This is fine with me, it's unrealistic to expect that, just something that takes getting used to after watching ep 4-6 right before it.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #101 on: January 14, 2016, 12:55:08 PM »
Just want to add on to these points to hammer it home.

Kylo Ren: heavily injured,

Blaster (which we've seen kill storm troopers) to the side and Finn got a good hit on this dominant arm.

Quote
incomplete training,

Like seriously, why would he be good at swordfighting? Who does he even have to fight against? Luke's training could only have gone so far before he litterally killed everyone he could practice against.

Quote
Rey: not heavily injured, has some combat experience,

We see her using the staff to fight at the beginning. She's also doing a lot of lunging in the fight, like she's fighting with a weapon she's not used to.

Quote
Kylo Ren didn't really get "owned." Rey was mostly running away or on the defensive. This really isn't that difficult to grasp. If anyone disagrees, that's fine.  I think there's enough evidence in the actual movie to explain it.

I wouldn't say he got owned at all, just bested.  The fight ends with Kylo trying to push her back, but clearly holding back to tempt her to the dark side.  His dialogue even sounds like he's straining. They're basically just pushing against each other, then Rey taps into the force, pushes him back, and knocks away his lightsaber.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #102 on: January 14, 2016, 01:18:17 PM »
In the original trilogy the only time anyone other than a Jedi wields a lightsaber, it's Han cutting open the Tauntaun in Empire and he handles it awkwardly like he doesn't know what he's doing.  Having Finn use it at all didn't look right to me and my general feeling is that anyone with even the slightest training in the Force would own the **** out of any untrained individual in a lightsaber duel.  In the original films it's like using a lightsaber in a competent way is a big deal.  Hell only three people in those movies ever fight with one.  Note also the Luke never fights with one in the first film when he has yet to have had much training.  Probably an accident since Lucas is a dolt but it makes Luke's lightsaber battle with Vader all the more of a big deal.  He didn't fight him in the first film because he couldn't possible stand a chance and even after training with Yoda he still barely escapes with his life in the second.

To me neither Finn or Rey should have the slightest idea what they're doing and wouldn't have a chance against a trained Sith, even if he was injured.  But then the prequels already turned lightsabers into a pretty routine thing.  The original trilogy has one duel per film.

Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #103 on: January 14, 2016, 06:20:42 PM »
Perhaps Stormtroopers are trained in "staff" combat? It's like swinging a stick is really any different than swinging a sword laser.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #104 on: January 14, 2016, 06:48:45 PM »
Strom Troopers in the original trilogy were supposed to wield light sabers. It eventually got moved around.



I'd imagine wielding a light saber wouldn't be that different than that magnatron baton thing they wield. But Fin gets his ass kicked both times he uses the light saber.  So there is, that he is 0-2 in light saber fights.

I watched the movie again yesterday.

Rey says "Classified. Really? Me too. Big secret." Which didn't really make me laugh the first time, but was hilarious on second viewing because her backstory is the most speculated thing.

also kylo ren's line

"She's just beginning to test her
           powers. The longer it takes to find
           her, the more dangerous she becomes."

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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #105 on: January 14, 2016, 07:33:51 PM »
Rey discovering her powers seems very much like the annoying midichlorian bullshit of the prequels that everyone hated since it turned being a Jedi from something you earn through training and hard work into favourable genetics.  Why they would want to emphasize that in these new movies is beyond me.

Though I did always find it odd that Luke seems to have some control of the Force at the beginning of Empire when he was trained by Obi-Wan for like a day maybe?  He pulls the lightsaber towards himself with his mind to escape the Wampa and honestly I was confused as **** the first time I saw that as a kid since no one really had done such a thing in the first film.  Vader chokes that guy but I didn't make the connection that a magical mind choke would translate to pulling things towards yourself.  So is that Luke's midichlorians allowing him to do that or was he just practicing the little bit of stuff Obi-Wan taught him over the time between films?  I suppose he already directed the bombs into the Death Star using the Force with Obi-Wan's guidance so he could have used the same thing for Force pulls.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #106 on: January 14, 2016, 08:01:55 PM »
I don't think they will be using the words midichlorians in future movies. But I think its vaguely clear Rey is Luke's Daughter.

The whole fact that when they touch on Rey's past without telling us what it is, they play Luke's Music. Maz's line: "That lightsaber was Luke's. And his father's before him and now, it calls to you!"

I'm going to put it in spoiler tag's because I've read the screenplay. The screenplay is clearer even though it still doesn't reveal. Theres screenplay intention vs cinema intent. Check this out
KYLO REN (CONT'D)
           You know I can take whatever I want.
          Trepidation flashes across Rey's eyes. Kylo Ren moves closer,
          his hand rising toward her. She recoils, but has nowhere to
          go. Kylo Ren nearly TOUCHES HER FACE...
          THEY'RE BOTH SURPRISED: they react to a feeling that passes
          between them -- AN ENERGY THEY RECOGNIZE IN EACH OTHER.
          And then it's gone. Adversaries again. Rey can't move,
          quietly strains in agony, trying to resist Ren's probing

They could just be talking about the force, or they could be cousins.



If I were to make some assumptions. She remembers her dad, he left her on that planet. He left her there to protect her.  She may have known his name was Luke, she probably just referred to him as dad. She maybe knew his first name. She was young enough where maybe she didn't know the surname.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 08:09:05 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline King of Twitch

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #107 on: January 14, 2016, 09:48:19 PM »
I'm trying to picture who Luke would marry; am I the only one that thinks it wouldn't work? Now, he absolutely does deserve a death star full of ratchets, but there's nobody from the OT and to introduce one in Ep8 would be anticlimactic (especially since they will probably be in separate places for most of the movie).
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #108 on: January 14, 2016, 09:51:13 PM »
Maybe he did meet and marry a Mara Jade-like person but she was killed by the Knights of Ren and Snoak?
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #109 on: January 14, 2016, 10:15:27 PM »
Rey discovering her powers seems very much like the annoying midichlorian bullshit of the prequels that everyone hated since it turned being a Jedi from something you earn through training and hard work into favourable genetics.  Why they would want to emphasize that in these new movies is beyond me.
I don't know how anyone could conceivably come to that conclusion. The movies, particularly the original trilogy, have made it very clear that some people are more attuned to The Force and that genetics does, in fact, play a role in this. "The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi." If it was just training and hard work, then anyone could become a Jedi and there's nothing in the movies even suggesting that to be true. Leia was also shown to have used The Force to some extent, and there's no real reason why she should other than she's Force-sensitive since it runs strong in the Skywalker family.

Luke: If I don't make it back, you're the only hope for the Alliance.
Leia: Luke, don't talk that way. You have a power I don't understand and could never have.
Luke: You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have. The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. And... my sister has it. Yes. It's you, Leia.
Leia: I know. Somehow, I've always known.

Yoda was pretty much banking on this.

Obi-Wan: That boy is our last hope.
Yoda: No, there is another.

Also...

Yoda: Luke, when gone am I... the last of the Jedi will you be. Luke, the Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned, Luke. There is... another... Sky... walker.

Seriously, Ian, it's like you're not even trying.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 10:17:15 PM by Adrock »

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #110 on: January 14, 2016, 10:52:11 PM »
That reminds me of how that quote was used in one of the early trailers.

"The Force is strong in my family. . . My father has it. . . I have it. . . My sister has it. . .
You have that power too."

Rey has to be Luke's daughter.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #111 on: January 14, 2016, 11:40:18 PM »
also, like it or not. Athletes are generally good at sports because they try hard, but you'd be wrong to think genetics wasn't a big factor.  **** genes have an effect on your ability to try hard.

then there's yoda

Do, or Do not. There is no Try.

Yoda is a marvelous teacher. A penny for anyone who gets that joke.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #112 on: January 15, 2016, 12:05:47 AM »
That reminds me of how that quote was used in one of the early trailers.

"The Force is strong in my family. . . My father has it. . . I have it. . . My sister has it. . .
You have that power too."

Rey has to be Luke's daughter.
It could be referring to Kylo Ren.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #113 on: January 15, 2016, 12:33:34 AM »
Why does everyone have to get so defensive? It was a joke.

But even all of Ren's disadvantages aside, Rey should not have gotten a power level boost mid movie. I would have been fine with the mind reading defenses and the force pull being her only moments, but the Jedi Mind Trick was stupid, used for comedic effect, and inspired by the fact that Finn was incompetent and couldn't rescue her, which was ALSO a comedic aspect that wasn't really necessary. Ended up giving us a very comedic line from Finn, but not truly necessary.

You'd think that, with all that time wasted in the second act, they would have given us a satisfying third act and thrilling escape. But instead they "Forced" their way out of it to help that portion of the movie move along faster.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #114 on: January 15, 2016, 12:36:41 AM »
That reminds me of how that quote was used in one of the early trailers.

"The Force is strong in my family. . . My father has it. . . I have it. . . My sister has it. . .
You have that power too."

Rey has to be Luke's daughter.
It could be referring to Kylo Ren.

when you put these series of quotes together....

Maz "That lightsaber was Luke's. And his father's before him and now, it calls to you!"

Luke to Leia (but in the trailer) "The Force is strong in my family. . . My father has it. . . I have it. . . My sister has it. . .You have that power too."

Darth Vader: Search your feelings, you *know* it to be true!

MAZ: Han told me.  Dear child. I see your eyes. You already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back. But... there's someone who still could.
REY: Luke.
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Offline Wah

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #115 on: January 15, 2016, 04:34:11 AM »
Man, when I first saw Snoke I was like "HOLY **** HE'S HUGE! This is amazing! There's so much you can do with this." But then It was just a weird type of hologram.

*price is wrong sound*

I had a similar thought.
Damn he's HUGE.... where has his race been hiding....
then it turned out to be a hologram.
yeah my penis is pretty huge...
Made you look ****.

Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #116 on: January 15, 2016, 09:24:08 AM »
That quote would definitely be about Ben Solo ("you have it too"), not Rey.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #117 on: January 15, 2016, 05:07:17 PM »
another theory i'm throwing out. What if Ben Kenobi had a daughter and Luke banged her? Also, maybe Luke isn't her father. He could have still been a formative father figure till she was like 6.  Other people have theorized she is Snoke's Daughter.

It could be Luke trained a group of young people to be Jedi. One started to naturally be going towards the dark side. Luke stopped that ****, injured the **** out of him. Then later on that guy recruited the other Jedi, formed the nights of Ren, grabbed Kylo up.

Naturally you assume in the lines when they were talking about all the training that went wrong they were talking about Ben, but it could be Snoke's the apprentice.

Snoke could have been one of Darth Vader's apprentices. There was the game apprentice, Luke, but there could have been another. Darth Sideous had Anikin ready as soon as Dooku and Grevious were gone. Palpatine also could have had Snoke ready in case Darth Vader fell.

There is the rule of two, but Palpatine had his **** together.

Even crazier theory. Maybe a youngling survived? That would be far off, and nuts, but really cool.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #118 on: January 15, 2016, 07:25:52 PM »
I like that "youngling survived" theory. Would make more sense why Luke left here somewhere he felt was "safe" while he went after Snoke/Kylo.


For all we know, Luke is stranded on that planet because of a trap or engine failure and was waiting for someone to come find him. Maybe he never meant to be gone for as long as he was?
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #119 on: January 15, 2016, 07:31:42 PM »
another theory i'm throwing out. What if Ben Kenobi had a daughter and Luke banged her?

I'm getting this image of Obi-Wan being this deadbeat dad with illegitimate children all over the galaxy. :)  Makes his general "holier-than-thou" personally seem pretty obnoxious.

But to get geeky, Obi-Wan's own daughter would probably be strong with the Force herself so all this concern about Luke being the last hope and all doesn't seem to make much sense if Obi-Wan knows that he has his own kid out there that could become a Jedi.  Hell, wouldn't he train her?

Offline Stratos

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #120 on: January 15, 2016, 07:43:55 PM »
Obi-wan did have a romantic interest in the Queen of Mandalor. He almost left the order for her too. But he decided to follow honor and she was killed during a coup. So that removes the possibility of an unknown 'secret' birth.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #121 on: January 15, 2016, 07:59:47 PM »
Well, there's a large stretch of time between episodes III and IV.  All he would have to do is travel around, knock up a few ladies, and come back to check in on Luke every so often.  He knows he and Yoda are the last Jedi, he might as well have a back up plan in case Luke doesn't pan out.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #122 on: January 15, 2016, 10:52:54 PM »
Well Obi Wan could have gave up on the ascetic lifestyle roughly 10-12 years after the big battle on revenge of the Sith. If he had a kid when Luke was 10, then by the time luke was 30 he could have banged that chick... 20 years later that offspring would be Rey's age.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #123 on: January 16, 2016, 01:15:25 AM »
The thought of a backstory with Obi Wan impregnating several women and instructing his daughter(s) to seduce Luke in order to keep the bloodline going is. . .weird.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #124 on: January 16, 2016, 03:42:46 PM »
I wouldn't say it would happen so FORCEfully.

I always thought USE THE FORCE could have a rape-y tone.
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