Author Topic: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...  (Read 32827 times)

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Offline BranDonk Kong

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...it's almost 2:00 am, and I just got back from seeing it for the 3rd time (this time in IMAX 3D, woohoo!), so I'm too tired to get into any discussion...but this topic needs to be made. However...


...if you don't want to see any Star Wars Episode VII spoilers, then get out of this thread, now!


There - fair warning has been given, so lets get to discussing the movie freely!
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Offline King of Twitch

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2015, 02:38:56 AM »
This thing headfaked me right in my feelings, something I haven't felt at the movies in a long time. I was surprised and enjoyed it a lot. There were so many little things that were good and yet it took its time in getting to them. The little scenes add up to something special and the fact it had the same pacing of ANH, with a few more action/violence scenes, and more characters and consistently good and real dialogue, without getting convoluted, was unbelievably refreshing.


I kinda checked out after the big scene, though. It didn't help that the rest was a retread. Spoilers: watched the IJ movies today to help with the heartburn. If it weren't for Death Star #3 it would be a perfect movie. Not complaining though. I'm personally looking forward to the next two.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2015, 10:07:32 AM »
I don't know how to use spoiler tags and since the thread title has fair warning I will just post my thoughts.

Kylo Ren is the villain Star Wars has been missing since the Empire Strikes Back. Vader was a tool in A New Hope and a lapdog in Jedi but he was a monster in Empire. Then we meet Kylo Ren and learn Vader blood is bad news.

The pacing was perfect I never once felt like I was bored or wondering what is going on, it wasn't convoluted and busy like the prequels and it wasn't boring and slow like A New Hope. I think Empire was the only one to get the pacing right, Phantom Menace came close second and then A New Hope, the rest were usually too busy then too slow then back to being busy again.

The special effects worked good I think, I liked how it had a modern film look and wasn't trying to look like it was made in the damn 70's like some fanboys wanted. It needed to be believable like this universe could exist and these people really were just living their lives.

The big stormtrooper that everyone was hating was perfectly cast he added so much to the film it otherwise would have lacked, the film didn't necessarily need more "diversity" but there was nothing wrong with that character at all, and I am from Texas where the only toys NOT selling are the ones with his face on it.

Han, wow it was like he learned from the mistakes of Krystal Skull and stepped back into Han Solo like it was yesterday. Chewie was funny in this movie, something that felt a little out of place because I never associated him with humor. But it was the right kind of humor that was not at all annoying, eye rolling, or cursing your existence bad like Jar Jar.

The villains were pure evil, their motive is restore evil to the galaxy plain and simple, wipe out the good once and for all. They fact it didn't even try to hide that the First Order/Empire were meant to be Nazi's was good it showed that the film makers still had their balls in place and Disney wasn't able to castrate this film like people feared they might.

Not the films fault but the theater going experience was sort of ruined heading into a new STAR WARS film only to be forced to sit through a STAR TREK trailer, that was kind of bullshit but whatever. Not as bad as all the commercials reminding the world Disney is perfect and your childhood belongs to them.

The music was weak, it was too safe too familiar I think this film needed some more themes of it's own, the themes it did introduce were great but the important scenes all relied too much on familiar there was nothing as amazing as Duel of the Fates, but there was not Duel of the... wait shut up nevermind.

That brings me to the lightsaber battles, FINALLY done right, not over the top not underwhelming but actually believable and relevant to the story for a change. Even if barely.

The starkiller was awesome I loved it, and the, was that a SUper Super Star Destroyer or an Ultra Star Destroyer? It shows how heavily the Empire/First Order relies/Relied on technology to do their bidding because while the cult of evil was effective, they couldn't reach everyone.

First viewing I didn't like the Han Solo introductory scene it felt too Doctor Who for me, not Star Wars at all. Upon second viewing, after having time to reflect on the whole movie, it still felt too Doctor Who but it reminded me of stuff from the novels that could happen but never did in the films so it was nice to see them actually acknowledging the books they no longer accept as cannon but were okay with taking ideas from.

Rey was awesome, I fell in love with her the first viewing and I want to see more of her. I didn't care for Padme/Amidala because in Phantom Menace it was too confusing trying to figure out when it was her, when it wasn't her, what she was doing, what was her role, why was she so important, etc. In Clones she was better but still annoying until the end when she became almost likeable but all likability went out the window when she tried to seduce pretty boy in Revenge.


Speaking of pretty boy, looks like they wanted someone who had Vader blood in them this time. Luke well he wast first so it wasn't his fault Lucas failed to find someone believable as his father, but Ben Skywalker could easily be the kin of Anakin.

The Yoda of the movie was a little offputting the first viewing, the second viewing I warmed up to it, I am not sure how much it will, was it a she or was that confirmed? In today's world you can't make assumptions, anyways no they did say it was  a she, the new yoda, whatever her name was, I am not sure if that will be the new Jar Jar or some throwaway character we don't see again, considering you know, what happens.

The cantina scene wasn't a straight rip off but it was done well enough. It reminded me more of the Jabba's Palace scene but not as bad as the sports bar in Clones. Or the stupid out of place 50's Diner, that was just wrong.

Other than that, well there was just too much to take in all at once. Despite all the reports I didn't spot R2-KT anywhere in the film so they must have hidden it pretty good or else I wasn't looking hard enough. I am also unsure if they stuck to the tradition of throwing THX-1138 references in there like Lucas always did or if they abandoned that to make it their own. It would be sad if they didn't because it would really distance this one from the OT and PT a little but not any more than not having the Fox Fanfare which was actually jarring but it wasn't that bad the second time. I actually would have preferred a Disney castle or something despite not wanting to remember it was Disney just something to fill those 20 seconds that they cut which just dropped you into the movie with no warning, so a minor gripe but there needed to be something equivalent to the fanfare and there wasn't so these films will have to stand on their own.

Overall I loved it and will be going back again.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 10:10:58 AM by michaelbaysuperfan616 »
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Offline shingi_70

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2015, 11:30:24 AM »
My only real complaint was the fact that Finn didn't get a big moment toward the end. Also readimg the MSW leaks and the art book alot got cit from the middle and end.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2015, 03:37:33 PM »
It's the best standalone Star Wars film out of the 7 but in the whole of the saga its probably 3. Its good but its safe. Visually is damn near perfect with a perfect mix of old and new. Music was so-so except for Rey's theme which was great.


Kylo Ren is what Anakin Skywalker should have been in the prequels. Angst, anger, insecurity and entitlement. That dude is evil. I thought it was Ben Solo, not Skywalker?


Can we talk about who Rey is? I don't think she's a Solo or Skywalker.




Offline ThePerm

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2015, 04:22:33 PM »
Ben Solo is the Force Awakens character. Ben Skywalker is the Extended Universe Character.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2015, 04:34:50 PM »
Ben Solo is the Force Awakens character. Ben Skywalker is the Extended Universe Character.

I knew that I was just trying to confuse people. Still he does have Skywalker blood in him so...
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2015, 12:06:08 AM »
If Rey isn't Luke Skywalker's daughter, the she is Obi Wan Kenobi's grand daughter. In fact, that would make a lot of sense. However, I think the look in each other's eyes at the end, and the fact that Kylo Ren could see that she had visions of the island where the Jedi Temple is point to her being Luke's daughter. That's who was taking off I'm the ship in her flashback. Why else would Anakin's light saber be calling to her?
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2015, 09:37:10 AM »
And then Finn will end up being Mace Windu's grandson and the Prequel crowd go nuts and the OT crowd suddenly hate this movie for no good reason.

Rey doesn't have to be a descendant of Vader or Kenobi though, that would be a George Lucas sized short-sighted thing to do, this universe has to be larger than there are only two lineages and one black family in the whole galaxy like Lucas envisioned.

Now it makes sense though if you think about it, he had a daughter and Leia had a son, then Luke witnesses Ben turn to the darkside despite his best efforts and goes on a hunt to find the Jedi Temple where he learns why Jedi are not supposed to make babies and have children. But if the Force can ONLY be spread through blood line and Jedi were not allowed to mate, then the whole Jedi order went extinct thousands of years ago, so again pulling on loose threads Lucas did not have the foresight to tie up leaves Abrams and company with a huge gaff to over come.


So If the Force doesn't require lineage to spread then why does Rey have to come from a Jedi bloodline at all why can't she just be the Force Spawn like Anakin was to bring balance back to the Force? Well obviously that would only make sense if she was ten years younger than Ben so the Force would know it was out of Balance and the Light Side would spawn a miracle baby. Another loose thread thank's to Lucas.


So there really is no easy way out of this. She ends up having to be the offspring of Kenobi, Skywalker, or Palpatine in order for people to not have to think too hard and Lucas didn't care about loose ends but I am not so sure Disney wants to make these films as overly complicated as Lucas made his last three.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2015, 11:12:23 AM »
As much as they are differentiating from the EU, BEN SOLO is Darth Caedus. They could make Rey "Skywalker" work long as Finn still becomes the Hero he's meant to be by episode 9.


Also, how the hell Does Maz get Luke's original lightsaber?

Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2015, 11:41:02 AM »
There was a story in the EU where the remnants of the Empire recovered his hand and used it to make a clone of him. It is entirely possible they stick with that or do something similar.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2015, 01:37:00 PM »
The movie met my every expectation, but it didn't exceed any of them, and was a letdown in a few ways. I thought the pacing was good up until the second act, which dragged on ridiculously and went nowhere, and the third act felt way too rushed.

Finn was, by far, the best part of the movie, giving it a much needed sense of grounding. Rey, though I liked her, was WAY too much of a Mary Sue. Never flown a ship like the Falcon before, yet managed to do so with such little effort that she impresses Han Solo? Also just starts using Force powers without even having training and pretty much just basing them off of how she thinks they should work? I mean, I get it. The title of the movie clearly is directed explicitly towards her but she is the most adept force user I think we have ever seen in the series thusfar, and the fact that she's great at a number of other things doesn't help.

There were definite stakes when Han and Finn and Poe were on screen. Not so with Rey.

Other than that, I liked the movie. I am hoping Kylo Ren becomes even more of a monster in the future, right now he's just a BIT too emotional to me.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 01:38:41 PM by Evan_B »
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2015, 06:37:31 PM »
Luke had been telling her how to use The Force in her dreams would be my assumption.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2015, 12:22:43 AM »
The movie met my every expectation, but it didn't exceed any of them, and was a letdown in a few ways. I thought the pacing was good up until the second act, which dragged on ridiculously and went nowhere, and the third act felt way too rushed.

Finn was, by far, the best part of the movie, giving it a much needed sense of grounding. Rey, though I liked her, was WAY too much of a Mary Sue. Never flown a ship like the Falcon before, yet managed to do so with such little effort that she impresses Han Solo? Also just starts using Force powers without even having training and pretty much just basing them off of how she thinks they should work? I mean, I get it. The title of the movie clearly is directed explicitly towards her but she is the most adept force user I think we have ever seen in the series thusfar, and the fact that she's great at a number of other things doesn't help.

There were definite stakes when Han and Finn and Poe were on screen. Not so with Rey.

Other than that, I liked the movie. I am hoping Kylo Ren becomes even more of a monster in the future, right now he's just a BIT too emotional to me.






She's not a "Mary Sue" at all. The precedent was set way back in episode 1. Anakin Was a freaking genius. Building Droids from scraps, fixing Watto's junk, Podracing when no other known human can do it and flying in a strange ship through a blockade and blowing up a capital ship. AND HE WAS FREAKING 8 YEARS OLD! Rey is like 20 or something with far more life experience and the nature of the force is once you believe in it, it has you.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2015, 01:39:37 AM »
Anakin was the greatest Jedi that ever lived, and never finished a race until the one that set him free, and also was assisted by a droid and a ship with autopilot functions. And a 3P0 model is something that is frequent in the Star Wars universe.

Even so, his sheer luck and coincidental skill was something I thought could be attributed to Lucas' stale writing and direction. Now I see that it's acceptable in general. Like I said, she must be extremely adept with the Force, since she develops Force powers faster than pretty much any other character we've ever seen in the movies.

And is also a great aim, and lucks out in specialized military superplanet fortresses, and knows how to Jedi Mind Trick, and overcome trained Dark Jedi mind probing, and is a fast pilot of devices she's never used before, and knows how to operate blast doors and other security features on a ship she's never seen, and everyone loves her, and she has a "we can do it!" attitude until... she suddenly doesn't for no other reason than to move the plot along, I guess...? I just don't think we've ever seen someone so utterly capable.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2015, 05:44:29 PM »
She has been trained to some degree. That staff she's carrying has Darth Maul old saber or something that is meant to look like an old Lightsaber Her parents, whomever they are has to put certain things into place to protect her, even training that she may have not realized was actually Force training. Plus Kylo Ren was just shot with a Tank Gun in the belly, of course she could be him.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2015, 08:01:46 PM »
I loved the film.  I think the new cast was all-around excellent.  I especially liked how strong Poe was as a supporting character.  Finn's story was interestingly parallel to the slave narrative (which I won't get into, if it'll make everyone uncomfortable) and I think that was intentional in a good way. 

Rey was great too.  I know she seemed like a Mary Sue, but when she was speaking to Han, it seemed like she was well-versed in stories of the Rebellion.  I would think she's also heard about the Force and Force powers, so he trying out the Jedi Mind Trick didn't phase me as much, especially after she just tapped into her force powers resisting Kylo Ren.

When Han and Chewie showed up, I thought his cameo would be quick, but was a pretty big part of the film.  He literally guides the new characters into the Star Wars Universe, making his death feel like a passing of the torch. (Only for the torch to be passed back at the end, lol.)

Speaking of the ending, I'm glad it didn't end with Rey flying off to look for Luke.  That would've felt cheap.  I really liked that there were no lines at the end either.  That made the moment feel heavier.

My only real complaint was the fact that Finn didn't get a big moment toward the end.

I completely agree here.  I was hoping he'd at least open his eyes.  He whole story line almost felt like one big red herring, but I think he came into his own.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2015, 10:10:43 PM »
Apparently Disney Infinity 3.0 reveals a major spoiler about Rey...so try to avoid that for the next couple of years.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2015, 12:08:51 AM »
Crap. That's gonna be everywhere now.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2015, 03:53:45 AM »
Disney Infinity thing is NOT a spoiler. Kylo does NOT say that. its safe
 

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2015, 02:38:28 PM »
I know people want to defend the movie and it's choices because it was a bearable film, but I'm not so blinded that I couldn't see the flaws in the story. You can read into it as much as you want, Rey is overpowered.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2015, 02:53:39 PM »
I hoped that it was fake. I didn't watch the supposed video, but I accidentally read the sentence below where someone posted it. Not saying I'd necessarily be upset if that ended up being true, but it would suck to find out that way, and also would be ridiculous for Disney to even think of including it in a video game.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2015, 09:13:30 PM »
They seem to be suggesting Rey is Luke's daughter, but I don't think so. I sort of felt that Rey might have been trained by Luke when she was younger, maybe at the academy at the same time as Ben, but was sent away protect her from Kylo Ren and Snoke once Ben turned. Maybe she had her memory and force powers suppressed and they were finally "awakened" after she got off Jakku. It just seemed that Han, Leia and Kylo Ren all knew who she was.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2015, 12:00:57 PM »
They seem to be suggesting Rey is Luke's daughter, but I don't think so. I sort of felt that Rey might have been trained by Luke when she was younger, maybe at the academy at the same time as Ben, but was sent away protect her from Kylo Ren and Snoke once Ben turned. Maybe she had her memory and force powers suppressed and they were finally "awakened" after she got off Jakku. It just seemed that Han, Leia and Kylo Ren all knew who she was.




YES!

Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2015, 10:42:34 AM »
went again yesterday, was my third time seeing the film. This time I took three of my nephews who had also already seen it, I was babysitting for my sister it seemed like a good way to pass the time. It was still good on it's third viewing so I am starting to think it wasn't just hype and hope holding this together.


I went into The Phantom Menace so hyped I almost couldn't believe it was actually happening. I got so impatient I bought the book and read it the week before I went to see the film. A part of me kept saying that the reason it disappointed that first night was because I had read the book and between the spoilers and usual books being different from the final films, I felt like I cheated myself reading the book.

Then on second viewing I had a chance to actually enjoy the movie and realize yes a lot of why I wasn't having as much fun opening night as I should was I already knew the ending and how they got there, there was no reveal, no tension just a lot of let down that things that were in the book either didn't make it into the movie or turned out differently. To this day when I re-watch Episode I I keep confusing lines in the film for their novel counterparts. This has always bothered me. Needless to say I avoided any type of spoilers with the remaining films.

Based on my experience I did go back to The Phantom Menace one more time to make sure it was an enjoyable film and not ruined because of hype or spoilers. On my third viewing I began to be annoyed more and more by the cringe worthy acting of Jake Lloyd, and the Jar Jar character began to shift from eye rolling bad to man I really hate this character.

Then came the DVD release and all the distance between the premiere and the reading of the book plus aging a little, maturing a little, the film was more or less watchable but never recovered to greatness. I always liked the movie, but yes there are parts I hated.


To this day, as much as it will bother some people, Phantom Menace is the only prequel I can re-watch on a regular basis as a part of my annual Star Wars viewing, I often save the other two for those rare occasions I feel compelled to watch all six, which has only happened twice since I got all six. I always fast forward heavily through Revenge, skip most of Clones, and then watch the OT in peace.


As I was sitting in the theater opening night I kept going through my mind, wow this is Star Wars, and ugh this is Star Wars, back to YEAH THIS IS STAR WARS!!

Second viewing I took my sister and brother-in-law as a birthday present to him, and my viewing experience was mostly, now that I had seen it I can watch it and analyze it more. My impressions this time were okay some of the minor things that annoyed me are not as annoying as they initially were so that was a plus, there were no eye rolling moments both viewings unlike the PT where I had to cringe many times, so that was good, and the story, acting, action, and effects were still really interesting the second viewing. I shook this off as okay I saw the movie once now it stayed good but it was still opening weekend it could have been post hype.

So I intentionally waited another week to go back. I was going to wait till this weekend but having been duped into baby sitting for my sister I took that as a chance to kill two birds with one stone, keep the hoodlums occupied for a few hours and see the movie for that third time.

This is where I realized that unlike some movies in the past where I couldn't wait to get back to the theater to see it again, I was actually regretting spending money again to see a movie a third time I had already seen. being the "favorite" uncle that I am I had to buy snacks and when it was all said and done, the event ended up costing me more money than I spent on everyone for Christmas, and no I didn't cheap out on Christmas I just splurged at the theater and wish I hadn't done that. Anyways cognitive dissonance aside,  I was able to really get into the movie this time and despite that hole in my wallet that continues to nag at me, grr, I felt like it was a very enjoyable experience worthy of the name Star Wars and this film will certainly make it's way into my annual viewings along with the other good ones, I can't say for sure if it will topple Episode One or just extend my viewing time but nostalgia is mostly what keeps Phantom Menace alive in my mind, but I attribute much of that to the OT as well so I am hoping this one holds up on it's own without the nostalgia factor because let's face it nobody gets nostalgic for their early 30's until they are like on their death bed.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2015, 02:00:48 PM »
tl;dr

Going to see it again tomorrow, my daughter wants to see it now.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2015, 04:28:34 PM »
I'm going to read the rest of the thread but I'm going ahead and putting my thoughts here.  The more I think about it the more I have to say it was ok.  I would have enjoyed spending the time I used to watch this movie catching up on Clone Wars.  This movie felt to much like a checkbox checking adventure flick.  I think making a Death Planet was a terrible move.  Plus how can you say that you are keeping watch on someone when they can extinguish a star and build a planet sized weapon without you knowing it and it has already happened twice in your lifetime?  Don't like the darker palette.  Felt Phasm was useless.  For all you know she is a transgender male.  Felt Darth Emo was a winy brat not a villain.  Fin who was suppose to be trained as a Storm Trooper since he can remember is frankly terrible and incompetent at it.  It felt a lot like a Dr.Who episode without the Doctor or companion.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2015, 04:55:19 PM »
I was very pleased with Ben Solo/Kylo Ren since I am a Jason Solo/Darth Cedaeus fan. I really think it will turn out that he chose to go to the dark side to 'save' Luke/everyone. That is why he keeps struggling with the light side (who does that, seriously?). My only disappointment was the final duel.


Kylo should have been a better swordsman and Rey was more good at that and force powers than she should have been. It was the one thing I was truly disappointed in with the movie.


Other, lesser negatives were the length of the movie and the "check list" feel of hitting OT plot points. I was able to predict a few things because of the feel and I kept checking my watch because I was worried it would end too soon and there was no sign of Luke (the opposite feeling from my Hobbit cinema experiences as I felt that should have been one, maybe two films tops).


All in all I am pleased with it, though not as gung-ho as some people are. It has restored my faith in the series and has bme excited for the subsequent films. Now hopefully they can maintain the momentum.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2015, 09:06:16 PM »
I really liked the lightsaber duel. It wasn't as clean as the prequel duels which after subsequent viewings, look pretty bad (the vast majority of the time, they attack the lightsaber not body parts). The movie made a point to show Rey having some experience fighting using her staff and Kylo Ren being injured and having limited knowledge with a lightsaber. It has a very rough design and he was more reckless with it than anything as shown with his outbursts. It is also known that his training was never complete. Supreme Leader Snoke flat out says this. More importantly, the entire plot revolves around Kylo Ren killing all of Luke's padowans which also means Kylo Ren never completed his Jedi training with Luke. While we don't know if Supreme Leader Snoke showed him anything, we know he hasn't had much experience training with anyone else since causing Luke to go into exile.

All that said, I thought the duel was fair and the outcome believable. Rey spends most of it running away and Kylo Ren was only getting weaker from his injuries. He doesn't have the patience of a Jedi and aggression would only get him so far, but I think that's the point. The Dark Side of the Force is never really supposed to prevail in the end.

As for Rey, the impression I got was that she was always kind of using The Force without really understanding it, like Anakin did as a child on Tatooine. That's partially how she survived so long on Jakku, along with being smart and resourceful. I didn't mind her using The Force because The Force awakening within her is the point of the movie, and there was a ton of build up to that. I totally geeked out when she Force pulls Anakin's lightsaber from the snow while Kylo Ren flinches and recoils.

The only thing that could have made The Force Awakening better is if there was more Poe Dameron, but I understand why he was MIA for most of the movie. We know he's awesome. Leia considers him her best pilot and he pretty much owned the few scenes he was in before he "died." He'll have his shot in Episode VIII.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2015, 09:11:13 PM »
Good points and it helps me accept things as they have been. Though more than the lightsaber duel, I was bothered by the mind trick being used by Rey. I think it would have been perfect if she tried it, the trooper acted like he was tricked, only to pull off the mask and see Finn under it in a rescue scene. The fact that shortly after she meets up with the others makes it feel like this would have been a better, and potentially funnier, way to play out the break out scene.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 09:34:33 PM by Stratos »
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2015, 02:11:25 PM »
There was a part early on in the film where General Hux was sorta bathed in blue light and I was just thinking, I wonder if this is some sort of nod to Thrawn.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2015, 03:58:32 PM »
Thrawn is next on my list of characters I hope to see in some fashion.

My top list of hopeful appearances and re-imaginings:

Jason Solo/ Darth Ceadeus
Grand Admiral Thrawn
Corran Horn or Kyle Katarn (some other experienced Jedi, surely someone is still alive from Luke's padawans)
Wedge Antilles
Lando Calrissian
Boba Fett
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2015, 05:05:49 PM »
I would think that both Wegde and Lando we're with the Republic Fleet that was inconspicuously absent from this film.(I mean the fleet and not the guys). Jacen Solo = Ben Solo or so I would think.




I'm going to see this one more time (at least) before it leaves the theater. Does anybody else feel the movie was too perfect and by the numbers?
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2015, 05:31:31 PM »
I don't get what everyone sees in this movie.  For the price of theaters now there is nothing in it that I feel couldn't be delivered on in a good home system.  Now Pacific Rim on the other hand if you didn't see that in theaters you are missing an experience your just not getting at home.

I just don't like how the Force was portrayed in this movie.  Kylo stopped a blaster shot and let it hang like it was nothing.  An Experienced Jedi with Apprentice gets massacred by an unexperience apprentice.  Surely Luke could have stopped the blasters as well.  Felt the force wasn't really where it had been in all the other TV and Movie.  Then Rey being able to use the Mind Trick right out of the gate.  That particular one is suppose to require honing.  It be something else if she forced push or pull.  That is one of the first things to manifest.

I'll see the other movies but I'm not spending $50 like I did on this one.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2016, 10:43:27 PM »
So, I'm going to write out my long impressions.

Going into the movie I was floating around the Kylo Ren is Luke theory. I independently came to this theory before the internet swooped it up.

A few things set me towards this theory:
-The voice over of Kylo Ren sounded like they had just deepened Mark Hamil's Voice
-Luke was absent from the poster
-he went to strike his father on the emperor's request(a few lines from the first trilogy set him up to just continually join the dark side)
-who else would have Darth Vader's mask?

Now in the end that wasn't the case, but I feel like that was an active and purposeful red herring, at least for 1/3 of the movie. I had though, largely discounted that theory before watching the movie. I saw an interview with Adam Driver and he just sounds a lot like Mark Hamil.

At the beginning Kylo Ren is really trying to remove his history. That I find is a pretty interesting motivation. One Luke would take if he wanted to really descend into the Dark Side.

But then we find out Kylo Ren is Ben Solo, Leia and Han's kid. So, that is thrown out the window. But it is nice to know is they eventually got somewhere in their relationship and fucked. That would have been a let down if they never did. I think that if you actually were into the Luke going to the dark side theory that would make Kylo Ren's character more interesting. I like to take characters and break down their motivation. Interesting fact. Harrison Ford's oldest son is named Ben. It isn't just a Ben Kenobi thing. Ben also means "son of" So Ben Solo is Son of Solo.

and more on Kylo Ren. How dark is he?  He is the grandson of Darth Vader and the son of a notorious smuggler with questionable morals. He got trained with the force and **** went wrong. What type of crazy dark genes does he carry. I liked the scene when he threw a tantrum and started tearing up equipment. The storm troopers reaction of "...NOPE" was classic. I think he will work out in the long run in the series. His character has room to grow. He is not a fully formed being. He is a lot like his grandfather. Young Anakin was emo, Vader was calculating. Kylo Ren committed patricide, will he commit matricide?

Finn. What's not to like about Finn? His whole intro with the blood stained helmet was great. There's Blood in Star Wars!?(well, there was in the cantina) But the whole smeared blood thing is great. It was nice to see. I had this weird feeling Finn will turn on everyone though. That might be the shock in the sequel. The long con. He would have to fool everyone, even feigning being scared the entire time. Don't throw any holy water at that vampire, its not likely to come to the light.

Rey. Rey does a lot of climbing. I see everyone's biggest gripe with Rey is she used the force and there was no exposition explaining how she got to be a force user. Well, It's a mystery. Lets save that for Episode VIII. Also, the Jedi Mind trick..it took her like four times. She didn't master that immediately. Master Yoda say's the problem with Luke was he didn't believe enough in the force. Rey better well have believed in the force after that mind probe attempt. That type of exposure could be enough to make her mind go "oh!" even without the exposition.

Now the biggest talk with Rey is her lineage. In the Star Wars universe you don't have to have 2 parents. That was kind of lame on Phantom Menace(pulling the Jesus thing), but that could come back. Most likely She is Luke or possibly Obi Wan's daughter. Maybe Luke came to investigate her on his Star Trek to find force users. Qui-gon picked up on Anakin right away.

BB8 He's a robot kitty. Very good.

Overall Plot- Safe, but well done.

Maz Kanata - Didn't care for it. They wanted to make a new cantina scene. But it slowed the picture the hell down.

Hux and the First Order of Doom- I don't have a problem with the First Order, or Hux. The Empire are Nazis, the first order are Neo Nazis. Neo Nazis are clowns. They built another Death Star? Really? That didn't work the other times. Now people say this is stupid, but they've missed the point. The first order are crazy. They also are kind of stupid. It is their character flaw. They are trying to rebuild something that wasn't all that great to begin with. Who would do that? Neo Nazis. They are a bunch of posers. Don't get me wrong, sometimes posers are just as dangerous, if not more so. "It all doesn't make sense". People don't always have high levels of sense. Like when that dumb chick goes upstairs in the slasher movie.

Also, I sat in the worst possible place in the theaters. I watched it on Imax 3d. Unfortunately I got a terrible seat and nobody was moving. I waited 3 days too, and it was still packed. I ended up Front Row Left. It to some extant took me out of the movie, but then the movie won me back.  I didn't have a good view of the battle on Jakku at the beginning. And I sure as **** didn't see him stop that laser beam.

I was deep in with the tethered TIE fighter. The movie just continually amused me from that point on. I didn't find any huge plot holes like I normally find in movies.

Yes there was a lack of exposition in it. I was OK with that. It wasn't like the Martian. I read the Martian, and I just watched the movie. How the **** are people who haven't read the book supposed to know what is going on? This was different. It was more like "you'll find out next time, wait till they get to the island"
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 10:46:32 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2016, 06:42:22 PM »
I watched it today, didn't like big parts of it. Han Solo being killed off by his bratty son, the villain throwing temper tantrums, Jakuu being a carbon copy of Tatooine, half of Fin's dialog sounding like it belonged in a different movie.

Rey was great, I liked seeing Admiral Akbar, Everything with the space ships was well done, all the action scenes including the light saber battles were really good too.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2016, 09:14:51 PM »
I actually thought that was a different Mon Calamari as they did not age the character at all. I know certain alien species age at different rates to humans, but I would have liked to have seen little nods to the fact these alien characters are 30 years older. Maybe a tuft of grey hair on Chewbacca, or some wrinkling/discoloring on Akbar's face. Just felt like they were more worried about changing the non-aging droid characters (3PO's arm) than the aging alien ones.


I actually liked the tantrums Kylo had. Too many of the Sith characters are overly cool, confident, calculated and collected when a big part of the dark side is the anger and rage. Nice to see a bit of that, just don't over do it going forward.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2016, 10:02:17 PM »
I also was thinking about how Jakku is similar to tatoine...

What if Jakku was Tatoine? Like how Burma is Myanmar, and Zaire is Congo. Tatoine could have been it's empire name, and when the empire collapsed they went back to the other name.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2016, 10:18:06 PM »
I don't think Kylo Ren would call it anything other than Tatooine if it was the same place. Also, there weren't two suns. Maybe they could have age Akbar or Chewbacca, but there was no difference between Episode 3 Chewbacca and any other version of him, so he probably ages very slowly. Maz Kanata is over 1000 years old, Yoda was 900 years old when he died, etc. Maybe Chewbacca has aged a bit, just their hair doesn't change like a dog's would. After all, he did get hit in the Guavian Death Gang/Kanjaklub scene.

Now to a certain theory I saw on YouTube - being that Snoke is Darth Plagueis - that could be very interesting if true. If so, and he has the ability to stop people from dying (as Chancellor Palpatine/Darth Sidious/The Emperor tells Anakin), then perhaps episode 8 or 9 could even see the return of Darth Vader or even Han Solo? Doubtful, but you never know.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2016, 10:53:51 PM »
Chewbacca is bulkier than he used to be. Han aged.

I never got any confirmation that was admiral Akbar in the movie. I was wondering if it was him, or just another of the same species.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2016, 11:41:46 PM »
By the way, I've seen it four times now. My daughter (who previously "hated" Star Wars) wanted to see it, and now she wants Star Wars toys for her birthday. So proud.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2016, 02:01:23 AM »
By the way, I've seen it four times now. My daughter (who previously "hated" Star Wars) wanted to see it, and now she wants Star Wars toys for her birthday. So proud.


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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2016, 09:34:00 AM »
By the way, I've seen it four times now. My daughter (who previously "hated" Star Wars) wanted to see it, and now she wants Star Wars toys for her birthday. So proud.


You're doing the Lord's work my son, good job!


Star Wars The Force Awakens just crushed Titanic and it only took two fucking weeks to do it. Avatar is going down next. By the end of this run, the whole world will have seen the movie so I think the franchise is safe for a few more years. Also I am sure Disney is not looking so stupid for that $4 billion bargain they got this franchise for now.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2016, 03:55:11 PM »
It's Star Wars. I don't think it was ever not safe. The prequels, despite their dubious quality, only made Star Wars more popular.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2016, 02:12:57 PM »
So I saw it last night.  You ever observe a fan talking about their dream sequel to a videogame and they then proceed to list nothing but the same exact stuff that has already appeared in earlier games?  That's this movie.  JJ Abrams is the geeky fan who can't seem to think of anything but rehashing everything he liked about the original film.

Bad guy in a black cloak and mask with an evil army at his command is looking for a droid with important information on it that narrowly escaped a massacre and is found by somebody on a desert planet.  This person then proceeds to meet up with some famed hero from the past, who later dies while they watch helplessly and while all this happening the good guy army is trying to destroy the bad guy army's super weapon that can destroy whole planets.  Which fucking movie am I describing?  Episode IV or VII?

I found the prequels really bad but this was just pretty boring.  My interest picked up a lot when they did something different that had not been done by the original film.  The whole backstory about Luke trying to train Jedi and it all blowing up in his face sounds really cool.  I want to know more and the last scene of the movie was great!  That basic plot of a race between the good guys and bad guys to find Luke Skywalker is awesome and if the film stuck to that and I didn't throw in this Death-Star-in-all-but-name stuff into it the film might have come across as contributing something new to the Star Wars canon.  Instead it's a rehash to please the boring type of fan who just wants to see the same bullshit they already know.  It's the NSMB of Star Wars.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2016, 04:36:52 PM »
The Force Awakens was essentially a remake of A New Hope which itself borrowed from films like The Hidden Fortress. The Force Awakens hit all of the same story beats except it wasn't boring mainly due to having much better pacing. A New Hope has long stretches of nothing. It's very much a product of its time, and while I can appreciate its contribution to film as a whole, I have a hard time rewatching it. The only one that really stands out is The Empire Strikes Back. I can go back to it and still enjoy it. Obviously, I'm not a huge Star Wars fan so my opinion probably doesn't jive with the more diehard type.

Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2016, 05:04:07 PM »
The film just passed Avatar for highest grossing movie of all time in North America. It is about to open in China this weekend and is not too far behind world wide gross. I have only seen it three times and I plan on going back again.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2016, 08:52:26 PM »
The Movie was great, but Very similar to the first movie in  the original trilogy. Why?
Because of the prequels they were playing it safe and going back to basic's and leading up to new ideas in the next two films, that's what i hope anyway.


Han dying was a very emotional scene, and i quite liked the new Stormtrooper character (i'll learn they're names eventually) and ren's light saber is bad ass!


Was there a final scene at the end of the credits? Didn't get to see it if there was! (plz tell)
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2016, 10:30:22 PM »
Saw it with my wife.  She was a huge Star Wars fan growing up and I was more of a Trekkie. Both of us came away with the same sentiment--"good, not great".  Plot holes abound, and, despite good character concepts, the movie moved too quickly to fully develop them.


As a Star Trek fan, I am also a little pissed that the Jedi mind trick thing turned into the Vulcan mind meld.  I get the sense that Abrams was like "hey, remember that cool mind meld we did in Star Trek? Well,....I bet Jedi could totally do that too!"  But, whatever.


My favorite part of the movie, by far, was BB-8.  Awesome design.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2016, 01:19:13 AM »
Didn't Star Wars come out first?
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2016, 06:15:48 AM »
As a Star Trek fan, I am also a little pissed that the Jedi mind trick thing turned into the Vulcan mind meld.  I get the sense that Abrams was like "hey, remember that cool mind meld we did in Star Trek? Well,....I bet Jedi could totally do that too!"  But, whatever.


Funny you mentioned that, did you notice that the lightspeed shot of the Falcon is almost identical to the Enterprise in both of his Star Trek movies?

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2016, 07:50:20 AM »
Didn't Star Wars come out first?


It did not. Star Trek came out in the 60's.  Star Wars came out in the late 70's.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2016, 10:28:24 AM »
I don't think it was JJ Abrams who choose this super safe direction. I remember rumors of JJ being off the project a few years ago due to creative differences but then everything worked itself out. Star Trek 09 and MI:3 don'r feel safe while still building on the "bones of the past".


Moving forward, andI know this is pretty much impossible but I would like George Lucus to at least consult on the 5 future movies coming out over the years.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2016, 02:02:47 PM »
Something to note- Han says one of Luke's apprentices turned against him and messed the whole thing up. He says nothing about Ben killing Luke's apprentices, and it's quite clear that the Knights of Ren are a thing (we even get a glimpse at them in Rey's past/future vision, one has a pretty badass giant broadsword looking weapon). Ben could have convinced some of Luke's other apprentices to turn on him as well, leading to the Knights of Ren.

Anyway, the movie is still really safe and has a bad second act, though Maz Kanata has grown on me quite a bit. I hope she returns in the future.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2016, 08:46:31 PM »
I just watched the movie this morning. 11am IMAX 3D showing.... practically SOLD OUT. there was maybe 20 random single seats open.

Movie was pretty good, but I can see why the interwebs was calling it a remake (of ROTJ?), as the only thing missing was a hand getting chopped off... and that almost happened several times. Hell they even made the comparison themselves when they compared the DeathPlanet to the Deathstar.

My one gripe throughout this series though, is that Rey had a speeder that just hovers there, even when not in use. but when she needs to haul her load over to her camp, she has to drag it through the sand. Do they not have a little hoverbarrel to cart things around in? a hover satchel that she can tow behind her....? anything? they seem so advanced in certain areas to no apply them to other logical areas as well.

Can't believe HS won't be making it to the sequel though. Good thing he got his payday on the 1st movie. and why wasn't Chewie a little greyer? do they not age?

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2016, 10:32:44 PM »
I just watched the movie this morning. 11am IMAX 3D showing.... practically SOLD OUT. there was maybe 20 random single seats open.
I wanted to watch in IMAX for my second viewing. Getting tickets seems impossible for the time being.
Quote
Movie was pretty good, but I can see why the interwebs was calling it a remake (of ROTJ?)
Of A New Hope. There are certainly similarities. Hitting familiar story beats isn't even really new to Star Wars. The endings of The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, for example, were intentionally meant to mimic the endings of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back.
Quote
My one gripe throughout this series though, is that Rey had a speeder that just hovers there, even when not in use. but when she needs to haul her load over to her camp, she has to drag it through the sand. Do they not have a little hoverbarrel to cart things around in? a hover satchel that she can tow behind her....? anything? they seem so advanced in certain areas to no apply them to other logical areas as well.
Rey is a scavenger. She barely gets by with what she can find which, as shown in the movie, is slowly losing value based on the amount of portions she is given in exchange for the junk she scrounges up. It's surprising she even owns a speeder though we're supposed to surmise that she probably fixed up a junker. It's a necessity, a hoverbarrel or something similar is not.
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Can't believe HS won't be making it to the sequel though. Good thing he got his payday on the 1st movie. and why wasn't Chewie a little greyer? do they not age?
George Lucas seemed to go a little overboard with fanservice after The Phantom Menace by reintroducing characters like Boba Fett and Chewbacca (ultimately not understanding how to successfully and subtly do fanservice). Anyway, Chewbacca looked exactly the same in Revenge of the Sith as he does roughly 18 years later in A New Hope, implying that Wookies age slower than humans.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2016, 11:43:48 PM »
Quote
Movie was pretty good, but I can see why the interwebs was calling it a remake (of ROTJ?)
Of A New Hope. There are certainly similarities. Hitting familiar story beats isn't even really new to Star Wars. The endings of The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, for example, were intentionally meant to mimic the endings of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back.


I like to think of it as History keeps repeating itself.


Quote
Quote
My one gripe throughout this series though, is that Rey had a speeder that just hovers there, even when not in use. but when she needs to haul her load over to her camp, she has to drag it through the sand. Do they not have a little hoverbarrel to cart things around in? a hover satchel that she can tow behind her....? anything? they seem so advanced in certain areas to no apply them to other logical areas as well.
Rey is a scavenger. She barely gets by with what she can find which, as shown in the movie, is slowly losing value based on the amount of portions she is given in exchange for the junk she scrounges up. It's surprising she even owns a speeder though we're supposed to surmise that she probably fixed up a junker. It's a necessity, a hoverbarrel or something similar is not.


I didn't really mean her specifically, just in general. the tech just seems so common, that you expect to see it utilized even at the lowest levels of poverty. like cell phones, cars, TV.
I just expect a hover everything to be so common place, that you could just build hover stuff with do it yourself home kits using scraps from out in the desert wreckage.


Quote
Quote
Can't believe HS won't be making it to the sequel though. Good thing he got his payday on the 1st movie. and why wasn't Chewie a little greyer? do they not age?
George Lucas seemed to go a little overboard with fanservice after The Phantom Menace by reintroducing characters like Boba Fett and Chewbacca (ultimately not understanding how to successfully and subtly do fanservice). Anyway, Chewbacca looked exactly the same in Revenge of the Sith as he does roughly 18 years later in A New Hope, implying that Wookies age slower than humans.


i wouldn't have hurt to give him a few grey strands up top somewhere.
although it would have been hilarious if he was actually a little bald on top.


But overall I really enjoyed it. Not sure about the additional cost of 3D though. it really only stood out in a few scenes, but I know it really pops for more people than it ever has for me.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2016, 12:47:18 AM »
Rey only uses the speeder in that one scene though, and it isn't shown at her AT-AT "house" so maybe it was just borrowed from Unkar Plutt so she could go scavenge the Star Destroyer.

And the light speed shot of the Milennium Falcon is used in the previous movies too.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2016, 01:23:37 AM »
wookies use steroids its confirmed
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2016, 09:40:25 AM »
Like I said before, its possible that wookies do not go gray when they age, they aren't human (or earthly at all) after all.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2016, 02:36:07 PM »
I've never owned a dog.  Do dogs go grey when they get old?  I always thought Wookies were like dogs.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2016, 05:47:31 PM »
I've never owned a dog.  Do dogs go grey when they get old?  I always thought Wookies were like dogs.

I don't think grey but my black dog got a lot of white in his hair just before he died at about 18 years of age.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2016, 08:56:50 PM »
Yes they do (quite a bit, depending on the breed, color, etc.), but again, not from Earth.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #64 on: January 10, 2016, 09:09:20 PM »
Wookies do grey with age if you believe the Star Wars Holiday Special! ;)


Chewbacca was about 205 years old in A New Hope/OT time.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2016, 04:53:40 PM »
I think Chewie is considered middle-aged in Wookie years by now, he was late teens maybe early twenties in A New Hope.


Rumor floating around Snoke is Vader. Anyone think it could work or is just stupid?
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2016, 06:08:08 PM »
Why would Kylo be carrying around Vader's charred helmet and idolizing it? Vader died and a resurrection of him would require someone like Plagueis, who has the ability to overcome death.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2016, 06:13:23 PM »
Rumor floating around Snoke is Vader. Anyone think it could work or is just stupid?

If Vader somehow survived being burned on a funeral pyre how does it explain his ghost appearing at the end of Return of the Jedi?  That idea just makes no sense.  Plus part of the whole story is that Luke proves there is still good in Anakin so they would just undo all of that?  Retcon the iconic original trilogy for something that doesn't even make sense in the first place?  That would be like franchise suicide.

To make it work would take dumb comic book level **** where like Darth Vader made some clone of himself and THAT was who died in Jedi and it was all his secret evil plan to kill the Emperor so he could take over later on.  And then the ghost was just a Sith mind trick on his part.  Or Darth Vader's good and evil sides take on two separate entities and when he "dies" his good part went to "Jedi Heaven" to join Yoda and Obi-Wan but his evil part remained in his body and survived the cremation somehow and that's who Snoke is.

God I feel sick writing such an idiotic explanation.  It's a stupid idea that makes no sense.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #68 on: January 11, 2016, 09:07:18 PM »
Yeah that's really stupid.

And Chewbacca fought in the Clone Wars in Episode 3...so unless he was an infant, then he wasn't a teenager or in his twenties in a New Hope.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #69 on: January 11, 2016, 09:10:52 PM »
I think he meant the teen comparison as an "in dog years" type of comparison.


According to the Wookiepedia, Wookies live up to about 400 years.


Quote
"Wookiees had a long lifespan, appearing not to age over a span of fifty years.[13] One Wookiee, Lohgarra, lived healthily for centuries—the only distinction being her white fur.[9] "


So I guess it does make sense to not see much aging in Chewbacca.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #70 on: January 11, 2016, 10:14:42 PM »
Well, I thought this was funny and Star Wars related:

It's Always Sunny in Tatooine

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #71 on: January 11, 2016, 10:43:51 PM »
My friend just sent me a link to that video. It's a perfect "Sunny" intro segment.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2016, 12:25:47 AM »
Rumor has it that Snoke is Darth Plageuis.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2016, 12:38:15 AM »
rumor has it Kylo Ren is future Snoke

and there is time travel in the next movie.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2016, 12:52:15 AM »
Rumor has it that Kylo Ren is Luke Skywalker.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #75 on: January 12, 2016, 05:05:08 AM »
Rumor has it that my Penis is Darth Vader.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #76 on: January 12, 2016, 06:21:03 AM »
Rumor has it that my Penis is Darth Vader.
Your penis is charred and dismembered?

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #77 on: January 12, 2016, 07:39:54 AM »
Saw it finally.

Two things...

One, what the hell is the resistance? I mean...there's the republic. Why would their need to be a resistance to the First Order? For once in my life, I actually want to know the POLITICS of Star Wars.

Secondly, we all know it's a complete retread of the original trilogy and that's a shame. I really thought it would have ended on a high note if Kylo Ren was defeated but the death planet wasn't. It still worked and several more planets blew up and it ended like "Well....****...what do we do?" Then you have that spectacular last shot with Rae meeting up with Luke.

By the way, that scene is sooooooo damn good. It really truly felt like Star Wars in that moment. None of the light saber fights did it for me, nor Solo dying. It was that final scene where I felt I was watching Star Wars again.

One last thing, I was surprised by the comedy in this movie. Most of the time it hit bulls-eyes. Apart from the story, there was good writing in there.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #78 on: January 12, 2016, 09:23:16 AM »
Rumor has it that my Penis is Darth Vader.

Rumor has it my penis is Dark inVader

Welcome to the Dark Side ;)


edit:
sorry, low hanging fruit.
there's room for a "that's what she said" joke in there too
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 09:26:55 AM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #79 on: January 12, 2016, 09:56:18 AM »
Quote
Or Darth Vader's good and evil sides take on two separate entities and when he "dies" his good part went to "Jedi Heaven" to join Yoda and Obi-Wan but his evil part remained in his body and survived the cremation somehow and that's who Snoke is.

That is how I heard it described that Anakin turned to the light and went into the Force but Darth Vader was a separate entity and his spirit somehow lived on. They did do that with the Emperor and sending his "soul" into a clone body in the old EU so there is no telling they won't try that here. Yeah it would be pretty bad though.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #80 on: January 12, 2016, 12:24:24 PM »
Quote
Or Darth Vader's good and evil sides take on two separate entities and when he "dies" his good part went to "Jedi Heaven" to join Yoda and Obi-Wan but his evil part remained in his body and survived the cremation somehow and that's who Snoke is.

That is how I heard it described that Anakin turned to the light and went into the Force but Darth Vader was a separate entity and his spirit somehow lived on. They did do that with the Emperor and sending his "soul" into a clone body in the old EU so there is no telling they won't try that here. Yeah it would be pretty bad though.

I like how the really dumb explanation I pulled out of my ass to mock the theory is apparently something someone else thought of in a completely serious manner. :)

There is a part of me that wants things to go in a really stupid direction just to see the fan outrage it would cause.  Star Wars was "ruined forever" the day Episode I came out so whether the new films are amazing or complete trash is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #81 on: January 12, 2016, 02:13:26 PM »
Saw it finally.

Two things...

One, what the hell is the resistance? I mean...there's the republic. Why would their need to be a resistance to the First Order? For once in my life, I actually want to know the POLITICS of Star Wars.

Secondly, we all know it's a complete retread of the original trilogy and that's a shame. I really thought it would have ended on a high note if Kylo Ren was defeated but the death planet wasn't. It still worked and several more planets blew up and it ended like "Well....****...what do we do?" Then you have that spectacular last shot with Rae meeting up with Luke.

By the way, that scene is sooooooo damn good. It really truly felt like Star Wars in that moment. None of the light saber fights did it for me, nor Solo dying. It was that final scene where I felt I was watching Star Wars again.

One last thing, I was surprised by the comedy in this movie. Most of the time it hit bulls-eyes. Apart from the story, there was good writing in there.

The resistance is parallel to the french resistance. A rebellion is a group warring within a group. The rebel alliance were in civil war against the empire. They were The Alliance to Restore the Republic.

A resistance is a group that resists an invader. When Germany invaded europe again in WWII there were various resistance groups.

The resistance runs parallel to the actual military hand of New Republic. All the actual military were over at Hosnian Prime, which got blown up.

Lets put it this way. Not everybody is going to sit by and rely on the military to defend them. Poe Dameron's backstory was he was a member of the New Republic's Starfleet, but defected to the Resistance due to their ineffectiveness.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2016, 05:35:54 PM »



I have seen that image and discussion on several websites now. Supposedly they have the same scars...
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2016, 08:37:47 PM »
so Darth vader lives!? (as fangless sith vampire) is the theory huh?

I'm not well versed in my SW lore though, and it's been ages since I've seen the original trilogy, so details are not fresh... or even present in my mind.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2016, 09:02:45 PM »
Those aren't the same scars. Also, Darth Vader has a robotic right arm...and this is a better pic...they look nothing alike.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2016, 11:09:05 PM »
Man, when I first saw Snoke I was like "HOLY **** HE'S HUGE! This is amazing! There's so much you can do with this." But then It was just a weird type of hologram.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2016, 11:15:53 PM »
Man, when I first saw Snoke I was like "HOLY **** HE'S HUGE! This is amazing! There's so much you can do with this." But then It was just a weird type of hologram.

*price is wrong sound*

I had a similar thought.
Damn he's HUGE.... where has his race been hiding....
then it turned out to be a hologram.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #87 on: January 13, 2016, 12:57:59 AM »
Snoke does have some similar scars to Kylo Ren.

The director of episode VIII directed Looper.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #88 on: January 13, 2016, 01:08:53 AM »
The new Republic is a group of planets held together by a loose 'articles of confederation' that had weak financing, military, and enforcement of galactic laws. They need to step in and replace it with a constitutional republic with a stronger federal system. Instead they blew apart when the New Order showed up. If only James Madison was around...

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #89 on: January 13, 2016, 01:55:48 AM »
When is VIII suppose to come out? Is it yearly or like Avatar?
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #90 on: January 13, 2016, 03:04:21 AM »
May 26, 2017
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #91 on: January 13, 2016, 09:33:29 AM »
Those aren't the same scars. Also, Darth Vader has a robotic right arm...and this is a better pic...they look nothing alike.







I know that, that is why I said supposedly with the ... at the end.

I don't think he will be the resurrected Vader ghost, that would be a HUGE mistake.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #92 on: January 13, 2016, 01:35:34 PM »
Agreed.  I don't get why, if Snoke is a resurrected Vader, would Kylo Ren talk to the Vader helmet.  He could just walk over and talk to the guy.  Unless of course he didn't know that, but then why would he not?
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #93 on: January 13, 2016, 02:04:53 PM »
Maybe no one has actually seen Snoke in person and they all communicate with this hologram?  So the big reveal ends up being that he's just some AI created by the Emperor or Darth Vader when he was still evil that was designed as a fail safe in case the Empire fell.  That's a way to make it so he is sort of Darth Vader that wouldn't retcon the original films and doesn't require weird comic book logic to accept.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #94 on: January 13, 2016, 06:00:44 PM »
Snoke doesn't look anything like Kylo Ren either. He's not either one of them, he's Snoke.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #95 on: January 13, 2016, 06:59:15 PM »
Maybe no one has actually seen Snoke in person and they all communicate with this hologram? 

I dunno. He trained Kylo Ren at some point, right? Surely they've been in the same room together.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #96 on: January 13, 2016, 08:16:54 PM »
I dunno. He trained Kylo Ren at some point, right? Surely they've been in the same room together.
"Poorly" trained Kylo. Especially since he got owned by some scavenger scum.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #97 on: January 13, 2016, 08:49:50 PM »
Yeah, I think we need to let that fight go.  There's plenty of reasons for Kylo Ren to have "lost", most of which we've covered.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #98 on: January 14, 2016, 01:35:18 AM »
Yeah, I think we need to let that fight go.  There's plenty of reasons for Kylo Ren to have "lost", most of which we've covered.

was most of it how he was likely using the force to keep his intestines inside his body and stop himself from bleeding to death while also fighting a newly awakened Jedi?

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #99 on: January 14, 2016, 07:27:58 AM »
Kylo Ren: heavily injured, incomplete training, just killed his father, and was not actually trying to kill Rey.

Rey: not heavily injured, has some combat experience, probably been using The Force her entire life (like Anakin did), and The Force awakening within her is the entire point of the movie.

Kylo Ren didn't really get "owned." Rey was mostly running away or on the defensive. This really isn't that difficult to grasp. If anyone disagrees, that's fine. I think there's enough evidence in the actual movie to explain it.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #100 on: January 14, 2016, 10:18:15 AM »
I got a chance to see the movie over the break.  I enjoyed it, and have no problem with it being an extension of the original trilogy.  I think the overall story works well enough, and I reserved my expectations a little bit before seeing it, so I was satisfied with the movie as a whole.  Also, so awesome that the battles felt like they had some actual weight to them, specifically the light saber fights.  I have a few nitpicks.


1) The dialogue was pretty bad sometimes.  One part that definitely sticks out is when Finn admits to Rey that he was a storm trooper that defected.  He goes on a long winded paragraph explaining his feelings and how scared he is, etc.  A bad case of telling instead of showing, and in the original trilogy, didn't recall many (if any) situations where these kinds of situations happened, or at least broken into an actual conversation instead of a monologue.


2)  Some of the relationships felt a little forced.  Namely Finn & Poe, after spending all of a few hours together, act as if they're reunited best friends when they meet on the Resistance's base.  Just a bit jarring.




Overall, the movie felt like someone's best impersonation/interpretation of a Star Wars film, rather than if episode 7 was made right after 6.  A story using the characters and locations in the Star Wars universe.  This is fine with me, it's unrealistic to expect that, just something that takes getting used to after watching ep 4-6 right before it.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #101 on: January 14, 2016, 12:55:08 PM »
Just want to add on to these points to hammer it home.

Kylo Ren: heavily injured,

Blaster (which we've seen kill storm troopers) to the side and Finn got a good hit on this dominant arm.

Quote
incomplete training,

Like seriously, why would he be good at swordfighting? Who does he even have to fight against? Luke's training could only have gone so far before he litterally killed everyone he could practice against.

Quote
Rey: not heavily injured, has some combat experience,

We see her using the staff to fight at the beginning. She's also doing a lot of lunging in the fight, like she's fighting with a weapon she's not used to.

Quote
Kylo Ren didn't really get "owned." Rey was mostly running away or on the defensive. This really isn't that difficult to grasp. If anyone disagrees, that's fine.  I think there's enough evidence in the actual movie to explain it.

I wouldn't say he got owned at all, just bested.  The fight ends with Kylo trying to push her back, but clearly holding back to tempt her to the dark side.  His dialogue even sounds like he's straining. They're basically just pushing against each other, then Rey taps into the force, pushes him back, and knocks away his lightsaber.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #102 on: January 14, 2016, 01:18:17 PM »
In the original trilogy the only time anyone other than a Jedi wields a lightsaber, it's Han cutting open the Tauntaun in Empire and he handles it awkwardly like he doesn't know what he's doing.  Having Finn use it at all didn't look right to me and my general feeling is that anyone with even the slightest training in the Force would own the **** out of any untrained individual in a lightsaber duel.  In the original films it's like using a lightsaber in a competent way is a big deal.  Hell only three people in those movies ever fight with one.  Note also the Luke never fights with one in the first film when he has yet to have had much training.  Probably an accident since Lucas is a dolt but it makes Luke's lightsaber battle with Vader all the more of a big deal.  He didn't fight him in the first film because he couldn't possible stand a chance and even after training with Yoda he still barely escapes with his life in the second.

To me neither Finn or Rey should have the slightest idea what they're doing and wouldn't have a chance against a trained Sith, even if he was injured.  But then the prequels already turned lightsabers into a pretty routine thing.  The original trilogy has one duel per film.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #103 on: January 14, 2016, 06:20:42 PM »
Perhaps Stormtroopers are trained in "staff" combat? It's like swinging a stick is really any different than swinging a sword laser.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #104 on: January 14, 2016, 06:48:45 PM »
Strom Troopers in the original trilogy were supposed to wield light sabers. It eventually got moved around.



I'd imagine wielding a light saber wouldn't be that different than that magnatron baton thing they wield. But Fin gets his ass kicked both times he uses the light saber.  So there is, that he is 0-2 in light saber fights.

I watched the movie again yesterday.

Rey says "Classified. Really? Me too. Big secret." Which didn't really make me laugh the first time, but was hilarious on second viewing because her backstory is the most speculated thing.

also kylo ren's line

"She's just beginning to test her
           powers. The longer it takes to find
           her, the more dangerous she becomes."

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #105 on: January 14, 2016, 07:33:51 PM »
Rey discovering her powers seems very much like the annoying midichlorian bullshit of the prequels that everyone hated since it turned being a Jedi from something you earn through training and hard work into favourable genetics.  Why they would want to emphasize that in these new movies is beyond me.

Though I did always find it odd that Luke seems to have some control of the Force at the beginning of Empire when he was trained by Obi-Wan for like a day maybe?  He pulls the lightsaber towards himself with his mind to escape the Wampa and honestly I was confused as **** the first time I saw that as a kid since no one really had done such a thing in the first film.  Vader chokes that guy but I didn't make the connection that a magical mind choke would translate to pulling things towards yourself.  So is that Luke's midichlorians allowing him to do that or was he just practicing the little bit of stuff Obi-Wan taught him over the time between films?  I suppose he already directed the bombs into the Death Star using the Force with Obi-Wan's guidance so he could have used the same thing for Force pulls.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #106 on: January 14, 2016, 08:01:55 PM »
I don't think they will be using the words midichlorians in future movies. But I think its vaguely clear Rey is Luke's Daughter.

The whole fact that when they touch on Rey's past without telling us what it is, they play Luke's Music. Maz's line: "That lightsaber was Luke's. And his father's before him and now, it calls to you!"

I'm going to put it in spoiler tag's because I've read the screenplay. The screenplay is clearer even though it still doesn't reveal. Theres screenplay intention vs cinema intent. Check this out
KYLO REN (CONT'D)
           You know I can take whatever I want.
          Trepidation flashes across Rey's eyes. Kylo Ren moves closer,
          his hand rising toward her. She recoils, but has nowhere to
          go. Kylo Ren nearly TOUCHES HER FACE...
          THEY'RE BOTH SURPRISED: they react to a feeling that passes
          between them -- AN ENERGY THEY RECOGNIZE IN EACH OTHER.
          And then it's gone. Adversaries again. Rey can't move,
          quietly strains in agony, trying to resist Ren's probing

They could just be talking about the force, or they could be cousins.



If I were to make some assumptions. She remembers her dad, he left her on that planet. He left her there to protect her.  She may have known his name was Luke, she probably just referred to him as dad. She maybe knew his first name. She was young enough where maybe she didn't know the surname.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 08:09:05 PM by ThePerm »
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #107 on: January 14, 2016, 09:48:19 PM »
I'm trying to picture who Luke would marry; am I the only one that thinks it wouldn't work? Now, he absolutely does deserve a death star full of ratchets, but there's nobody from the OT and to introduce one in Ep8 would be anticlimactic (especially since they will probably be in separate places for most of the movie).
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #108 on: January 14, 2016, 09:51:13 PM »
Maybe he did meet and marry a Mara Jade-like person but she was killed by the Knights of Ren and Snoak?
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #109 on: January 14, 2016, 10:15:27 PM »
Rey discovering her powers seems very much like the annoying midichlorian bullshit of the prequels that everyone hated since it turned being a Jedi from something you earn through training and hard work into favourable genetics.  Why they would want to emphasize that in these new movies is beyond me.
I don't know how anyone could conceivably come to that conclusion. The movies, particularly the original trilogy, have made it very clear that some people are more attuned to The Force and that genetics does, in fact, play a role in this. "The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi." If it was just training and hard work, then anyone could become a Jedi and there's nothing in the movies even suggesting that to be true. Leia was also shown to have used The Force to some extent, and there's no real reason why she should other than she's Force-sensitive since it runs strong in the Skywalker family.

Luke: If I don't make it back, you're the only hope for the Alliance.
Leia: Luke, don't talk that way. You have a power I don't understand and could never have.
Luke: You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have. The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. And... my sister has it. Yes. It's you, Leia.
Leia: I know. Somehow, I've always known.

Yoda was pretty much banking on this.

Obi-Wan: That boy is our last hope.
Yoda: No, there is another.

Also...

Yoda: Luke, when gone am I... the last of the Jedi will you be. Luke, the Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned, Luke. There is... another... Sky... walker.

Seriously, Ian, it's like you're not even trying.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 10:17:15 PM by Adrock »

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #110 on: January 14, 2016, 10:52:11 PM »
That reminds me of how that quote was used in one of the early trailers.

"The Force is strong in my family. . . My father has it. . . I have it. . . My sister has it. . .
You have that power too."

Rey has to be Luke's daughter.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #111 on: January 14, 2016, 11:40:18 PM »
also, like it or not. Athletes are generally good at sports because they try hard, but you'd be wrong to think genetics wasn't a big factor.  **** genes have an effect on your ability to try hard.

then there's yoda

Do, or Do not. There is no Try.

Yoda is a marvelous teacher. A penny for anyone who gets that joke.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #112 on: January 15, 2016, 12:05:47 AM »
That reminds me of how that quote was used in one of the early trailers.

"The Force is strong in my family. . . My father has it. . . I have it. . . My sister has it. . .
You have that power too."

Rey has to be Luke's daughter.
It could be referring to Kylo Ren.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #113 on: January 15, 2016, 12:33:34 AM »
Why does everyone have to get so defensive? It was a joke.

But even all of Ren's disadvantages aside, Rey should not have gotten a power level boost mid movie. I would have been fine with the mind reading defenses and the force pull being her only moments, but the Jedi Mind Trick was stupid, used for comedic effect, and inspired by the fact that Finn was incompetent and couldn't rescue her, which was ALSO a comedic aspect that wasn't really necessary. Ended up giving us a very comedic line from Finn, but not truly necessary.

You'd think that, with all that time wasted in the second act, they would have given us a satisfying third act and thrilling escape. But instead they "Forced" their way out of it to help that portion of the movie move along faster.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #114 on: January 15, 2016, 12:36:41 AM »
That reminds me of how that quote was used in one of the early trailers.

"The Force is strong in my family. . . My father has it. . . I have it. . . My sister has it. . .
You have that power too."

Rey has to be Luke's daughter.
It could be referring to Kylo Ren.

when you put these series of quotes together....

Maz "That lightsaber was Luke's. And his father's before him and now, it calls to you!"

Luke to Leia (but in the trailer) "The Force is strong in my family. . . My father has it. . . I have it. . . My sister has it. . .You have that power too."

Darth Vader: Search your feelings, you *know* it to be true!

MAZ: Han told me.  Dear child. I see your eyes. You already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back. But... there's someone who still could.
REY: Luke.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #115 on: January 15, 2016, 04:34:11 AM »
Man, when I first saw Snoke I was like "HOLY **** HE'S HUGE! This is amazing! There's so much you can do with this." But then It was just a weird type of hologram.

*price is wrong sound*

I had a similar thought.
Damn he's HUGE.... where has his race been hiding....
then it turned out to be a hologram.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #116 on: January 15, 2016, 09:24:08 AM »
That quote would definitely be about Ben Solo ("you have it too"), not Rey.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #117 on: January 15, 2016, 05:07:17 PM »
another theory i'm throwing out. What if Ben Kenobi had a daughter and Luke banged her? Also, maybe Luke isn't her father. He could have still been a formative father figure till she was like 6.  Other people have theorized she is Snoke's Daughter.

It could be Luke trained a group of young people to be Jedi. One started to naturally be going towards the dark side. Luke stopped that ****, injured the **** out of him. Then later on that guy recruited the other Jedi, formed the nights of Ren, grabbed Kylo up.

Naturally you assume in the lines when they were talking about all the training that went wrong they were talking about Ben, but it could be Snoke's the apprentice.

Snoke could have been one of Darth Vader's apprentices. There was the game apprentice, Luke, but there could have been another. Darth Sideous had Anikin ready as soon as Dooku and Grevious were gone. Palpatine also could have had Snoke ready in case Darth Vader fell.

There is the rule of two, but Palpatine had his **** together.

Even crazier theory. Maybe a youngling survived? That would be far off, and nuts, but really cool.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #118 on: January 15, 2016, 07:25:52 PM »
I like that "youngling survived" theory. Would make more sense why Luke left here somewhere he felt was "safe" while he went after Snoke/Kylo.


For all we know, Luke is stranded on that planet because of a trap or engine failure and was waiting for someone to come find him. Maybe he never meant to be gone for as long as he was?
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #119 on: January 15, 2016, 07:31:42 PM »
another theory i'm throwing out. What if Ben Kenobi had a daughter and Luke banged her?

I'm getting this image of Obi-Wan being this deadbeat dad with illegitimate children all over the galaxy. :)  Makes his general "holier-than-thou" personally seem pretty obnoxious.

But to get geeky, Obi-Wan's own daughter would probably be strong with the Force herself so all this concern about Luke being the last hope and all doesn't seem to make much sense if Obi-Wan knows that he has his own kid out there that could become a Jedi.  Hell, wouldn't he train her?

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #120 on: January 15, 2016, 07:43:55 PM »
Obi-wan did have a romantic interest in the Queen of Mandalor. He almost left the order for her too. But he decided to follow honor and she was killed during a coup. So that removes the possibility of an unknown 'secret' birth.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #121 on: January 15, 2016, 07:59:47 PM »
Well, there's a large stretch of time between episodes III and IV.  All he would have to do is travel around, knock up a few ladies, and come back to check in on Luke every so often.  He knows he and Yoda are the last Jedi, he might as well have a back up plan in case Luke doesn't pan out.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #122 on: January 15, 2016, 10:52:54 PM »
Well Obi Wan could have gave up on the ascetic lifestyle roughly 10-12 years after the big battle on revenge of the Sith. If he had a kid when Luke was 10, then by the time luke was 30 he could have banged that chick... 20 years later that offspring would be Rey's age.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #123 on: January 16, 2016, 01:15:25 AM »
The thought of a backstory with Obi Wan impregnating several women and instructing his daughter(s) to seduce Luke in order to keep the bloodline going is. . .weird.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #124 on: January 16, 2016, 03:42:46 PM »
I wouldn't say it would happen so FORCEfully.

I always thought USE THE FORCE could have a rape-y tone.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #125 on: January 16, 2016, 05:40:43 PM »
I know this is about The Force Awakens but the new trailer for Star Wars Rebels is chock-full of new things to visit in terms of bloodlines, who's Rey's parent and even possibly a x = Snoke.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJyxPDEvo9U




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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #126 on: January 16, 2016, 08:42:39 PM »
i like that they reused the original wookie design.


Also, there is Rebel One coming out this year where they could visit some origins.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #127 on: January 22, 2016, 02:40:35 AM »
There was some discussion about Fin's potential futility in future movies on other mediums.  Episode VII doesn't paint him as a Jedi, and with Rey as a Jedi and a pilot, she almost doesn't need Fin.  Also, some people noted that he may have fully expended his knowledge of the First Order with the intel on the Star Killer Base.  So, what doesn't everyone think Fin's role will be in the next two films?
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #128 on: January 22, 2016, 06:53:53 AM »
Um. Resistance fighter.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #129 on: January 22, 2016, 07:32:35 AM »
I think Nintendo wants the next gimmick again...and there is nothing wrong with a good gimmick, but you have to fully deliver.  Nintendo did not fully deliver on thw Wii U gimmick or the Wii.  However I think they did a good job on the DS gimmick and even 3DS. 

Personally, I think Nintendo needs to double down on motion controls, perfect it then have a kickass HD system to back it up.  I think this could be done with a docking bay type system.  It acts as a charger and booster for the new portable.  Games are designed with scaled versions, and a tool can be designed for developers to easily do this.  Future upgrades could come every 3 years.  First to the handheld second to the dock.  All of this is achievable with current technology.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #130 on: January 22, 2016, 03:11:00 PM »
Wrong thread, Spak.

Um. Resistance fighter.

But is that it? Will he have as central of a role in future films?
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #131 on: January 22, 2016, 04:10:38 PM »
Finn is a traitor. Does that confirm him as Lando's kid?
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #132 on: January 22, 2016, 05:29:16 PM »
I read that John Boyega is getting in shape for the next movie. They're really going to do the two Jedi thing, aren't they?
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #133 on: January 23, 2016, 02:58:12 AM »
Finn is a traitor. Does that confirm him as Lando's kid?

I'm thinking 8 is gonna have a lot of flashbacks in order to explain more of the characters' backstories, so that's possible.  But it does do that universe shrinking that drives some people crazy.

I read that John Boyega is getting in shape for the next movie. They're really going to do the two Jedi thing, aren't they?

This I would be interested in.  I'd like to see his training and development, how it parallels to Rey's.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #134 on: January 23, 2016, 03:34:54 AM »
Well how big could a human sphere of influence be in the universe? Also, wouldn't each planet have smaller populations than our planet?  You think about it. We're only here because we're stuck here. I imagine a large portion of the population disappears out of the galaxy every year and nobody ever sees them again. Suddenly the small universe doesn't sound so far fetched. Also, think about how many notable humans are around on Earth vs non-notable humans. The number shrinks.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #135 on: January 25, 2016, 03:30:03 PM »
Well how big could a human sphere of influence be in the universe? Also, wouldn't each planet have smaller populations than our planet?  You think about it. We're only here because we're stuck here. I imagine a large portion of the population disappears out of the galaxy every year and nobody ever sees them again. Suddenly the small universe doesn't sound so far fetched. Also, think about how many notable humans are around on Earth vs non-notable humans. The number shrinks.

The world's population has increased as medical science has improved and the average lifespan has increased.  In the Star Wars universe things are advanced enough that you can replace limbs with robotic parts that appear to offer no disability over a real body part (though breathing seems to be primitive still judging by Darth Vader) so clearly the medical science is better and that would increase the average human lifespan.  So maybe the human population has exploded in the Star Wars universe.  Also once you can travel to other planets as easy as driving a car then you also have more resources to sustain a larger population.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #136 on: January 25, 2016, 06:15:50 PM »
But I think to Perm's point, there are so many other species that are going to reap those same benefits, including one's who naturally had longer lifespans than humans. Yoda was 300 or so when he died, right? And Chewie hasn't been aging much.

But I think there has to be a large sphere of influence for humans because of big the first order is. They established non-clone storm troopers in this movie meaning there has to be some place loaded with human beings for them to "mine" from.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #137 on: January 25, 2016, 07:56:04 PM »
Wookies live upwards of 400 years, Chewie is 205 during the OT, so about 235 during Force Awakens. Yoda was 900 years old when he died.


What I take away from this is that races with longer lives tend to live their lives differently than humans and other short lifespan races. Wookies still live in forest tree houses. Whether on purpose or because of subconscious authorial assumptions, longer lifespan races tend to live life more slowly and 'in tune' with nature. Additionally, on Earth, animals with longer lifespans tend to breed and multiply more slowly. This would naturally slow down any expansionist behavior these longer lived races would exhibit.


>In summary, we are the rabbits in the eyes of the Yodas/Wookies/other long-lived races.


Also, The Old Republic was dominated by human races and it appears that their planets comprise the majority of the "core worlds". This would have also been further exacerbated by the Empire's xenophobic policies, leading to a place like Mos Eisley in the Outer Rim to have a more racially diverse makeup than a core world. The Empire's 'influence' would not easily be absolved in a 30 year period, leading to humans still being the dominant force in the galaxy.


Lastly, from a practical standpoint, it is easier and cheaper for a production company if the majority of the primary cast is human/humanoid. Us human consumers find human characters more relate-able, thus causing the stories that are written to focus more on human leads.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #138 on: January 25, 2016, 09:26:19 PM »
The other point was. The population is large, but The population is more dispersed.

I'd imagine you get invited for dinner by some alien, and they just eat you. No need to hide the bodies. The alien's stomachs just digests the bones.

I'd imagine crime would be much more rampant in the future because people could get away with it much easier. Wild west type stuff.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #139 on: January 26, 2016, 12:48:01 PM »
Earth is getting pretty crowded at 7 billion. We have probably eight or nine total planetary bodies in our solar system we could inhabit if we had the right technology. Suppose each star system in Star Wars could support roughly 50 billion humans per system, there are hundreds of systems in that galaxy that make up the Old Republic and the Empire. Under Palpatine there was a serious effort to erase all non-Human life forms so that was part of the Rebellions, non-humans fighting for their right to live and to be a part of the government they helped create.

Like Perm said, there are likely planets not hospitable to humans but with their technology they can over come that. Human nature is to expand, to explore, and to reproduce. Some of the longer living species, as pointed out, probably don't have that same desire so it was easier for the humans who build their Death machines to come along and leave their mark on the world.


As for the clones, they Storm Troopers in the Original Trilogy were not all clones, by that time they were already drafting people and phasing out the clones, in fact by A New Hope the clones were already De-commissioned and placed in their storage facilities or retirement centers whatever they were called. they were no longer active duty. The First Order was probably like the remnants of the Empire in the Legacy EU, they had access to clone facilities but chose not to use them for various reasons. I think there was a line in the film that suggested they could use clones and they dismissed that as an option or something to that effect.



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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #140 on: January 26, 2016, 04:48:35 PM »
Also, another factor. People tend to reproduce in high numbers to counteract the effect of plagues and pandemics. When the threat of pandemics is reduced due to high sanitation efforts people don't do this. As time goes on certain highly advanced societies don't reproduce as much.

http://www.dw.com/en/impact-of-japans-shrinking-population-already-palpable/a-18172873
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #141 on: January 31, 2016, 05:58:55 PM »
Gwen Christie says she'll be in the next movie. also one of the only characters, like Rey, to have a British accent. Anybody think they're related?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 06:01:24 PM by Zap »
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #142 on: January 31, 2016, 07:40:05 PM »
I've seen that theory floating around that she's the Dark mother. IDK meh on that one. I like the theory that Rey is related to Snoke or Palpatine better. Still, kinda cliché.

what about the theory that Rey is a clone of Shmi





or just Luke's Daughter....


or maybe Rogue One will have the answers we seek?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 07:43:43 PM by ThePerm »
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #143 on: January 31, 2016, 10:16:01 PM »
I heard BB-8 is Secretly Snoke.

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #144 on: January 31, 2016, 10:55:20 PM »
Nobody wants to hear about your JarJar.

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