Author Topic: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?  (Read 21328 times)

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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2015, 03:28:25 PM »
With all this "can't tell the difference" stuff you figure someone had resurrected a thread from 2006.  That same excuse was repeated ad nauseam to justify Nintendo's decision to not support HD on the Wii.  HD caught on and people noticed the difference.

If 4K seriously has no chance to get anywhere then Nintendo doesn't have to worry about it but I don't trust their instincts for these sorts of things.  I think the easiest way to determine what to do is to look at the other consoles.  Do the PS4 and XB1 support it or have the ability to support it later via a patch?  If so the NX has to do the same.  When has "everyone else has _______ except Nintendo" ever worked out in Nintendo's favour?  Colour screen handhelds is the only one I can think of.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2015, 03:40:40 PM »
You're the last person who should be calling anyone out for repeating stuff.

Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2015, 03:44:32 PM »
With all this "can't tell the difference" stuff you figure someone had resurrected a thread from 2006.  That same excuse was repeated ad nauseam to justify Nintendo's decision to not support HD on the Wii.  HD caught on and people noticed the difference.

If 4K seriously has no chance to get anywhere then Nintendo doesn't have to worry about it but I don't trust their instincts for these sorts of things.  I think the easiest way to determine what to do is to look at the other consoles.  Do the PS4 and XB1 support it or have the ability to support it later via a patch?  If so the NX has to do the same.  When has "everyone else has _______ except Nintendo" ever worked out in Nintendo's favour?  Colour screen handhelds is the only one I can think of.

I didn't say people can't tell the different between SD and HD, most people surely can, I said most people can't tell the difference between 720p and higher but 4K is, to most people, overkill. Not saying in a store with proper equipment it doesn't look good but it doesn't look so much better than what we were recently sold on as HD in the last few years.

Not supporting HD for Wii was a mistake but skipping 4K on NX, or whatever follows for that matter, is not going to matter.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2015, 05:36:55 PM »
"everyone else has _______ except Nintendo" ever worked out in Nintendo's favour?
When that blank was "high rate of system failure." Or at least, it should have been a bigger deal...

Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2015, 05:53:04 PM »
I also don't buy that going SD for the Wii was such a big problem. It bothered the enthusiast community, but the brunt of the Wii consumer base either didn't notice or didn't care. The issue was moreso that Nintendo didn't have the WiiU (or whatever you think it should have been) out earlier, before the Wii brand cratered. I'll also note that at one point Microsoft stopped bundling HDMI cords with the 360 because they determined that a large majority of users didn't use them or used them in addition to the SD plugs and weren't aware they weren't looking at HD output.

It's possible the PS5/XBWO will have 4K support for limited applications outside of videos (perhaps about on the level of 3D on the PS3), but that'll be in four or five years and isn't something Nintendo should worry about for the NX. 4K TVs will probably become "standard" in that any new TV you can buy will be "4K" but looking at the lackluster performance of Blurays and the ascendancy of streaming, plus the still badly lagging roll-out of fiber in the US, I doubt 4K will have nearly the impact of 1080 in a relevant timeframe.




Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2015, 07:50:57 PM »
I also don't buy that going SD for the Wii was such a big problem. It bothered the enthusiast community, but the brunt of the Wii consumer base either didn't notice or didn't care. The issue was moreso that Nintendo didn't have the WiiU (or whatever you think it should have been) out earlier, before the Wii brand cratered.

Yep, the Wii was still the dominate home console until the end of 2010, that's 4 years after it came out.  Had the Wii U been ready for a 2011 launch then Nintendo literally would have timed it perfectly with an HD system replacing their out of date SD at the exact moment the system finally died out.

Of course much of this had to do with Nintendo shifting resources to the 3DS and upcoming Wii U so the lack of HD wasn't even close to what eventually brought the Wii down.  The Wii died because Nintendo literally stopped supporting it since they were moving on to newer ones.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2015, 08:26:21 PM »
Who are these people who can't tell the difference between 720p and 4k? Maybe on a small TV from a good distance away, but on anything substantial at a decent viewing distance it's very obvious. Even on a 5" phone screen 720p to 1080p is obvious (higher resolutions not so much).
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2015, 10:22:39 PM »
Here is my question do we really need 4K gaming at this moment?  I'm serious.  We aren't even pushing home 4K cinematic experiences yet.  television with 4K is going to be killer on bandwidth and Blu-Ray discs can do it, however is there anyone complaining that they NEED this? 

Gaming makes things even more questionable.  Right now gaming companies are complaining that the cost of making current HD games is too expensive that if the game isn't a mega hit they will lose money.  Won't 4K gaming just make this worse?  Won't it mean even higher production values and time rendering everything?  Will 4K gaming also push gaming backwards as the larger computing power to render character real-time in 4K push hardware to the limit requiring less draw distance, less enemies on the screen and basically potentially push gaming back to the Gamecube like era but with 4K graphics?  Maybe I am ignorant of the technology out there, but I seriously don't see the need for 4K gaming...yet if not ever. 

But perhaps I am an odd duck I will still buy and watch SD itunes television to have $10.00. 

Offline Adrock

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2015, 11:17:49 PM »
4K looks awesome. I'm basing this on the store demos and more recently, the new iMac so admittedly, my exposure is limited. In any case, it's not so much a question of whether we need 4K (we don't if one just looks up the definition of "need") as it is a question of whether Nintendo can offer it affordably. If Nintendo can, 4K should be there. Nintendo has a history of making odd choices based on what it thinks people don't want then being entirely wrong about it including but not limited to DVD playback, online gaming, a right circle pad, and supporting more than one GamePad. I don't believe 4K is as necessary, but if it's feasible, include it.

Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2015, 11:32:08 PM »

But perhaps I am an odd duck I will still buy and watch SD itunes television to have $10.00.

I hate watching older programs that were made for an SD broadcast in HD. What's lost in a lot of the resolution race is divorcing content from its original aesthetic milieu. The Star Trek re-scans, for instance, look terrible to me, I always drop them to SD to at least get the detail palette to look more accurate. New issues of movies, at least, can theoretically strive to reach the "infinite" resolution of projected film. I believe when they did a lot of the rescans of negatives for Bluray they tried to future proof the process for eventual 8K screens (8K posited as last jump that would be a worthwhile (if relatively minor) improvement based on digital optics for 2d images.)

But video games are a different story. I think the case for 1080 resolution is pretty clear in terms of additional detail/clarity in both 2D and 3D play spaces. It's hard for me to think of what 4K can do to advance game design at this point. I'm assuming it would be a boon to VR systems, though, so maybe it's better to ask if Nintendo is going to make the NX viable for a VR peripheral should the market actually take off in the next few years.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 11:40:40 PM by MagicCow64 »

Offline Adrock

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2015, 06:30:54 AM »
4K doesn't have to advance game design. If high definition wasn't a thing, we'd still be playing on standard definition and we would be none the wiser. That's beside the point. Nintendo shouldn't be artificially holding back for arbitrary reasons which we've seen it do so many times in the past. If 4K can be supported reasonably and responsibly, Nintendo shouldn't deny their partners (or consumers) the option. For example, say Square-Enix wants to develop a 4K Final Fantasy, it benefits Nintendo to be able to offer that possibility. Still, if that means NX launches at $500 or something, the disadvantages outweighs the benefits. It would be fantastic to get killer apps that offer something extra PS4 and One can't, especially something like graphics that the general public immediately gravitates toward. Nintendo just shouldn't price itself out of competition.

Full disclosure: I don't have a 4K anything. I bought a very nice 55" 1080p TV last year which I intend to use for the next five years at least. That said, 4K support isn't something I'd immediately benefit from. However, from a business standpoint, Nintendo really can't afford to keep making short-sighted decisions. Sometimes, it has gotten away with it (e.g no right circle pad) and sometimes it doesn't (e.g. friend codes and online support in general).

Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2015, 11:20:36 AM »
To clarify, I'm not so much talking about  strictly 4K gaming but streaming movies. "Perception is 9/10th of a purchase" Nintendo can't be seen as behind the times anymore. In theory all the NX needs to do is have a 4K-capable HDMI port and and sufficient ram. That shouldn't add too much cost to the unit. The Nvidia Sheild TV and Roku 4 both do 4K and both are less than $200. After watching Marco Polo 4K, SIGN ME UP!

Offline DonkeyBilly Kong

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2015, 12:14:39 PM »
I hadn't even considered 4K, but I agree with the group that it's possible for video and menus, but not reasonable for most games.  I don't think the resolution is particularly problematic or power defying.  Rather, video hardware even now for PCs is based on rendering lower resolutions, so everything past around 1920x1200 is very inefficient.  We should have a generational leap soon.

Despite not having a 4K TV or monitor yet, I would prefer to pay the small price difference to have that option in the future.  Even having Miiverse, etc. in 4K would look substantially nicer, and it would be more useful for video streaming as well.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2015, 12:26:53 PM »
NX may support 4K as an up-rezzed display mode (with all the processing done by the TV), but there isn't a chance in hell that it'll render games in 4K. It's not uncommon to see even PS4 games rendered natively in less than 1080p these days, despite the PS4 having much higher capabilities. It's simply not practical to render games in 4K when you can devote system resources to much more important things, especially when there's something approaching zero market support right now for 4K.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2015, 01:39:04 PM »
All this "what do we need this for?" stuff came up with the Wii as well.  "Do we really need that level of specs?"  In a vacuum, no, but Sony and MS were offering higher specs, games were being developed for those specs, the Wii couldn't handle ports so it didn't get the games.  The Wii was the BEST SELLING console of it's generation and got the WORST third party support because it's hardware was too damn underpowered to get the same games.  It is literally the only console in history to combine the best sales with the weakest support.

So if Sony and MS support 4K then Nintendo has to because games will be made that use it and if they can't be done on Nintendo's console they won't come to Nintendo's console.  Nintendo telling people what they should or shouldn't want and to "please understand" and trade off each first party game for like 30 third party games is ridiculous and is exactly why the Wii U has sold like ****.

I don't care if Sony and MS affix a giant nutsack to the side of their console.  If that is the industry expected feature then Nintendo should match it.  The only thing I would not suggest they match is anti-consumer practices.  If the other guys lock out used games Nintendo will gain an advantage in being more flexible.  But in hardware specs and features and anything that would be advertised as an enticing bullet point, skimping never works out for them.  You can't reasonably expect your customers to compromise.  Nintendo can not support 4K only if the PS4 and XB1 also cannot do it and it is not expected that successors to those consoles will come out that do support it that will co-exist for several years with the NX.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2015, 01:50:24 PM »
I think it's clear that graphics sell systems, more and more than they used to. If this weren't the case, then the PS4 wouldn't be selling as well as it is. The Wii may have gotten away with it, but there are several factors for that, including that at the time those other systems were expensive and not very reliable, plus the Xbox brand wasn't yet very popular. The PS4 and XBONE are much stronger competition than the PS360 were during their first few years. I personally don't think Nintendo will find better sales than systems like Wii U or GameCube unless they play the graphics game. Which is unfortunate, as I don't like how that's become the focus of the industry.

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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2015, 03:10:39 PM »
I think the real selling point of the PS4 is that there is security in the purchase.  Games get made and unless they're made by Nintendo or Microsoft the assumption is that it will be on the PS4 and it usually is.  I think more than anything that is what people look for in a console.  You look at media format wars like Beta/VHS and Blu Ray/HD-DVD and once one format gets the bulk of the titles things snowball in its favour because we really just want the content.  No one really wants three consoles.  We want one with every game on it.  So the more games a system gets the greater its appeal.

The second I found out the Wii U was going with outdated specs again I immediately assumed that the third party support would be completely screwed up so I didn't buy one.  It isn't really graphics as much as compatibility.  You can't include underpowered hardware in multiplatform development so it is excluded.  Nintendo could do the opposite and have really fancy specs and then find that hardly any games make use of it because it would be the oddball platform.  It would still get the games but everything would be made with the PS4/XB1 level in mind.  The PC gets ports that don't push the hardware because they don't want to squeeze out two platforms and make a PC exclusive.

Nintendo just has to make sure that they get the games and that all too common routine of something coming to everything BUT the Nintendo console no longer happens.  So whatever they have to do with the NX to address that needs to be done. 4K may not matter but it will matter if it deprives the NX of games.  If people don't assume that 90% of third party games will come to the NX in a uncompromised form then they won't buy it.

Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2015, 03:13:42 PM »
1.  Most 4k sets are "smart" enabled meaning you can already stream Netflix and other apps.

2.  Nintendo refuses to pay out royalties, hense no Blu-ray support or the common Dobly Surround stuff, the WII U used PCM.

So unless it's for gaming, 4K on a NX would be kinda pointless?

Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2015, 03:44:43 PM »
Nintendo just has to make sure that they get the games and that all too common routine of something coming to everything BUT the Nintendo console no longer happens.  So whatever they have to do with the NX to address that needs to be done. 4K may not matter but it will matter if it deprives the NX of games.  If people don't assume that 90% of third party games will come to the NX in a uncompromised form then they won't buy it.

Third parties are still having trouble making games in 1080p on the PS4.  Seriously, 4k is not going to be what stops third parties from porting their games to the NX.  This isn't like HD where every major third party was getting tools and shifting all their resources to be at least 720 back in 2005.  Nobody is even thinking about developing games with 4k in mind right now nor is their any evidence of developers caring at this moment. 

There are bigger issue's Nintendo should be focusing on in order to make third parties interested in developing for the NX and right now 4k is the least of their concerns.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2015, 05:54:44 PM »
I think the real selling point of the PS4 is that there is security in the purchase.  Games get made and unless they're made by Nintendo or Microsoft the assumption is that it will be on the PS4 and it usually is.
While that could be a factor, the XBONE gets pretty much any game the PS4 gets that isn't PS4-exclusive, so it doesn't explain why the PS4 is selling so much better. There must be much more to it than that, and one such reason is that the PS4 offers better graphics.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2015, 06:43:24 PM »
I think the real selling point of the PS4 is that there is security in the purchase.  Games get made and unless they're made by Nintendo or Microsoft the assumption is that it will be on the PS4 and it usually is.
While that could be a factor, the XBONE gets pretty much any game the PS4 gets that isn't PS4-exclusive, so it doesn't explain why the PS4 is selling so much better. There must be much more to it than that, and one such reason is that the PS4 offers better graphics.

Graphics is a good tie breaker and the PS4 also didn't force you to pay $100 extra for Kinect which the target audience clearly did not want in the first place.  Once the trend of the PS4 being the de facto console of choice started I think it would take something major to turn the tides.  Because of online play people are more likely than ever to try to get the same console as their friends.  I figure that one aspect will have a major impact on console generations from here on out.

If the PS4 had the best graphics but didn't have the most games I don't think it would be selling the best.  The Wii U isn't NOT selling because of its weaker graphics but because aside from Nintendo's own titles it is not getting most games.

Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2015, 07:44:39 PM »
Actually, MS lost Japanese and Europe support and there's quite a few games that are coming only to PS4 because MS's crappy sales numbers overseas.  Star Ocean 5 sreams to mind.  No deal was made for it's exclusiveness but the developer wanted to focus on ONE platform instead of multiple.


Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2015, 08:22:12 PM »
Eh, while there is a bizarre entrenched console enthusiast market that gets itself tied up in knots about slight performance differences between games on PS4 and XBONE, if cutting edge graphics were the main motivator then people would be flocking to PC rigs or Steamboxes and the like, given that the current gen is not particularly cutting edge (hence the difficulty mentioned above at even hitting 1080 with a decent framerate a lot of the time). I think it's more that PS4 graphics are "good enough" for an audience that is comfortable with diminishing returns and heavy amounts of iteration. Playing Assassin's Creed Syndicate at Ultra settings with 120 FPS at 1440 isn't going to be meaningfully different enough from just playing it on PS4 for most of the target audience to care. 

And unlike the problem of porting PS360 games down to the SD Wii, I don't forsee that being the same sort of issue should 4K games appear before Nintendo gets onboard. As I said before, it's hard to imagine what 4K would facilitate gameplay wise that wouldn't also work while outputting in 1080. Whereas there were (eventually) plenty of games that would have been illegible if displayed on the Wii at SD resolution (presuming the Wii had the horsepower to even do that).

Offline Shaymin

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2015, 08:24:41 PM »
Not to mention that Nintendo has talked about bringing out hardware quicker, so there won't be a 2-3 year lag between 4k (or hell, 8k) getting mass adoption and Nintendo adopting it.

Basically, NX the operating system will support 4k, but it'll be 2019-20 before we see hardware that renders it natively. (Essentially, what broodwars said.)
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Any Chance the NX will support 4K?
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2015, 08:49:21 PM »
I really am interested in this OS NX. 

If Nintendo really is going the upgrade direction of selling a low priced machine every 3 years but try to support games on systems for up to 5-6 years then Nintendo needs to be careful.  The only way that plan works is IF Nintendo has a means to scale games, up and down AND if the price is low enough for Nintendo to get people to buy up again.  This to me screams hybrid because only a mobile device is capable of getting people to upgrade quickly.