Topic: "Knowing" what we "know" now; thoughts?

[Ceric]

I wanted to get this up before the next big announcement was made.  Think of this like when we were speculating about the controller.  If we lock down the things that we beleive to be true as of 1/14/05 and all the good and the bad are true.

What this means is that with all indications from that survey.  The VC will have games to rent and games for buying.  The buying price is $19.99 for N64 games straight and I believe it was $2.99 for Nintendo games or play any game for $14.99 a month.

The controller as is with no secret feature or additional add-ons besides the Shell, Nunchuku, and the controller itself.  Gamecube accesories, due to the backward compatibility, are admissible. (Meaning Microphone, Bango, and Dance pads.)

Rev has wi-fi capability.

2-3 times the graphics power of the Cube.

For simplicity sake we'll assume due to the backward compatibility that the Rev can hook up to a TV and sound system in any fashion as the Gamecube. (This means s-video, component, composite, rf, and to a monitor with an adapter box, (Yes you can hook a GCN all those ways.  I have all the cords to do it.), and on the sound side RCA cables).  That also means a max of 480p.

This will also mean that Hideous menu interface from the survey.

As for Media it has been said that the Revolution will be able to do the DVD thing so we'll assume GCN discs and plain vanilla DVD storage (4.5 gigs).  No variants.  They might come in with a DVD that holds 10 gigs but for this we're locking down what is confirmed and all things that aren't given some references in size assuming the smallest.

As for the internal flash memory it's been said it is suppose to be 512mb.  It's up to you whether the drive is able to be used by the user.  I personally beleive that that drive will only be available to Nintendo and Developers.  Also, because it hasn't been mentioned, assuming since it's internal that it will not be able to be upgraded.

Saving can be done through the GCN memory cards, backward compatibility again, or through the flash card memory slots.  Which for this can be any size you can afford and used for anything you want within reason.  That being said since it hasn't been confirmed or denied you may choice to assume that Nintendo will be following an SD standard and therefore allowing accesories to be added using those slots as well, like on a PDA.

DS Conncectivity.

Same type of Ram as the Gamecube.

There will be launch titles.  Some will be from third parties and rumor has it that SSBO is going to one of the first party ones.  This is sort of a sticky part for the spirit of this post.  There are no truely confirmed games.  There confirmed that there will be games.  But none are confirmed.  I personally would like to stay away from "If it launched with Star Fox Revolution it would r0x0r.  They sell like a billion and it would kick     "  Though it might be unavoidable.  I like to keep the brand names out of this. (Except for SSBO becaues at least it's slightly confirmed and anything that is on the past systems because they have, through interpretation, been confirmed in a way.  At least all the GCN games.)  Now genre you beleive would make the launch strong and the like would be constructive.  I mean the new IP has been confirmed.

Rumor has it Nintendo may already be starting production.  So I will be happy to make the assumption that there will be no immediate shortages at launch.  Nintendo's pretty good about not bungling the number of needed launch systems.

The system will be the size of three stacked up DVD cases.  I know Nintendo stated that it will only be getting smaller at the last e3 but they haven't updated the sizing specs so were going with those.

I'll leave it to you discretion whether the motion sensor bars are long bars that stretch to you tv or just sensors you put at the edges.

If the video is any indication the system itself will be able to be turned on and off vy the remote.  You may use that if you like.

That all being said, and it's a post full, I personally beleive, that even with these Stats, that I will get a Revolution at launch.  My GCN has seen better days and I like to play Battalion wars, something it won't do now.  Looking back over this though it would be an underwhelming launch.  It be like going to the store and there it was with all the games.  "Wow, when did that launch."

So everyone have fun.  I hope you at least find this somewhat interesting.
-Ceric

[IceCold]

Well, many of those are actually not confirmed, such as the specs (2 to 3 times), the Virtual Console pricing etc. Also, there's no way that the Rev won't have more RAM than the GameCube..

EDIT: Some other things not mentioned..

- Slot loaded drives -
- I think you mentioned this but USB 2.0 ports
- Only word on discs; proprietary 12 cm discs
- Games so far confirmed: SSBR, MP3, Mario 128, Animal Crossing, FFCC, new IP, Zelda Mario Kart and Pokemon mentioned, Camelot something, other pledged support such as Bandai, Konami etc
- This really excites me - there will be single disc multiplayer LAN wireless games. I think Merrick confirmed it, but it will be like the DS and its single cartridge multiplayer games. So no cables, only one disc.. wow

There's more but that's what I can think of..  

[nickmitch]

IceCold, you're missing the point. He's saying that assuming all these are true, then what do we think.
At least, I think.

But anyway, I think that the Rev wouldn't be as successful if all these things were final.
I know Nintendo has one final trick up their sleves and it should be good.
Plus, if all we get is the numchuck and the shell, then that ruins the point of the controller. It allows for infinite expandability as long as attachements are really cheap to make. Don't get me wrong, it's still amazing with the numchuck. The point is, we could get more.

[cubist]

LOL @ "numchuck"...hehehe...

Anyways...knowing what we know...here are my thoughts...

My thought process won't feel complete until we know everything...knowing what we know...but here's my assessment of some of your points:

2 to 3 times powerful seems good enough to me.  A lot of forum users keep using RE4 graphics multiplied by 2 to 3 times.  To me, this equals what I've seen in the first generation of XBOX 360 games.  I've played quite a few of the XBOX 360 games AND you can achieve the same type of gameplay from what I've seen so far.  It IS for this reason that I'm truly excited about the newly anticipated gameplay opportunities that we'll have with the new controller.  

In terms of storage space, assuming that we're dealing with a minimum of 4.5 GB with the discs, I think Nintendo needs to get the number up just a little higher.  Games like WWE: DOR2 would have benefited.  There were a lot of third party complaints about the size.  I'm not saying we should have storage capacities needed for Hi-DEF, but at least enough for third parties to get the job done.  Just to drive this point home, XBOX 360 third party developers are complaining about the storage space.  (Note:  If you need a link, I'll try to find one from an interview with J. Allard)

Looking at the $19.99 N64 game price of the Virtual Console Survey, I was a bit disappointed.  I know that it was only a survey and nothing has been confirmed (the keyword here in this topic ).  On a different note, I was happy to see Blast Corp on the list; however, $19.99 would drive some just to easily get these ROM games illegally via the internet.  Nintendo should, at the most, charge $9.99.

Finally, as far as the DS interaction, I'm hoping Nintendo will give the REV the opportunity to play DS games somehow, so we don't have to buy a DS Player or something.  The REV controller may have the capability to emulate the DS touch screen.  While we're at it, throw in Game Boy compatibility and we'll definitely have THE ultimate Nintendo console that can play its whole library.  If this is Nintendo's last generation, might as well go out with a bang!  

Uhmmm...that last statement I just made...I take it back...Nintendo will survive.

 

[Khushrenada]

Yeah Nintendo will survive but do you ever think, where do we go from here? I mean, you look at all the stuff Nintendo is doing with this console. Internet finally. The Virtual Library. The new Controller. Even the look of the console is Nintendo's most impressive yet. Then there's a fact that there's another surprise. (Which might not be that big..who knows). I wonder where they plan to go after this. I say we start speculating on the console after Rev.

[wandering]

Oh, we've got a long way to go from here, Kushrenada. Until you can flip a switch in your living room and find yourself suddenly bounding on the moon's surface, interactive entertainment has a long way to go.  

[wandering]

Oh, as for the rev, I think nothing that has come out about it so far has been bad. Unless you count a lack of HD support as bad - I certainly don't.

The controller is genius, third party party praise has been through the roof, and  the virtual console thing sounds great (and the pricing is perfectly fine, btw. If 1 dollar is a reasonable price for a couple of minutes of compressed music, 20 dollars should be reasonable for 30+ hours of 3 dimensional Nintendo goodness - especially if aspects of the games are customizable, as was laid out in a Nintendo patent a while back. And the argument that technically-savvy people can just steal the games if they want is irrelevant.).

Then there's the free wifi, non-proprietary memory cards, the sleek look of the system, etc. This time around, Nintendo seems to be doing everything right.

But in spite of all of that, the one thing that will ensure that this system will be a huge success will be the fact that, when someone spies someone else playing a game on the rev, that game will look fun to them in the majority of cases - even if that person is a non-gamer, or 80-years old, or whatever. This is something that hasn't been true since the snes days. In the interim, game companies have used amazing in-game visuals to draw people in and sell systems, whether that was with the pre-rendered graphics of the psx, or the incredible realtime graphics of this gen. But, if what people have been saying about the 360 is any indication - visuals have reached the point where they don't interest or impress people who don't play. Or even those who do play. And that's why the Revolution will take the world by storm next year.

[Talon]

I think its absurd for Nintendo to charge $20(US) for an N64 game!!

Not only is it from the previous generation but the fact that you are buying these games over the net directly from nintendo (without a user manual!) cuts out the middle man thus nintendo are making a 100% profit.  The only thing they have to do is maintain the server.  Not to mention that they dont have to print these games on any media or ship them in any cases.

Also E-Bay sells pre-played N64 games for cheaper than that.

Just my two cents!

[IceCold]

I'm not saying we should have storage capacities needed for Hi-DEF, but at least enough for third parties to get the job done. Just to drive this point home, XBOX 360 third party developers are complaining about the storage space.

But, see, Microsoft is forcing developers to go HD for all their games, which is something that Nintendo definitely isn't doing. So it makes sense that developers need more space for 360 games, as MS didn't go with HD-DVD (planning to implement it later?). With the Revolution, however, whatever Nintendo has in store, I think it will be enough. There won't be HD so developers should have more than enough space for Rev games.

Also, THQ said that DoR2 needed more space, but that's just a lame excuse. Many other developers used this same excuse to either not have a game support the Cube, or to say that they couldn't add more stuff to the game. However, they are usually just too lazy to squeeze everything in and/or need to finish the game quickly, so they rush it and don't add some things. Look at Nintendo; they can fit nearly anything onto the disc, and we know how complete their games are..  

[wandering]

...except Nitendo doesn't use fmvs or high-quality music or photo-realistic graphics.....

But I agree, I don't think storage will be much of an issue with the rev.

[Ceric]

Just to clear a little up.  It thinks we generally have established as being true.  So anyplace we don't have hard confirmed information, like graphic capability, then assume the next best things.  Same as current or what is general beleived here on the board.  Now I know I didn't get everything in that monster of a list up there.  For that I am sorry.

Now on another note.  Thinking back to earlier discussions if it is true about how it seems most of you can finish games in a rental period.  Then the $14.99 a month unlimited gaming would be a real bargain for you.  Everynight come home and beat a new game.  As mentioned before $19.99 is to much to pay for a 2 generation old game.  You can but a game this generation for that price.  At least one that doesn't have any collector value, like having a mint condition copy of LoZ:LttP.

Though you know, being the cynic that I am, I'm half way worried the next announcement will be that it has and Ext. port. :-P

[animecyberrat]

I sure as hell hope it does have that EXT port, if not it will be the only Nintendo console NOT to have some type of expansion port somewhere that doesnt get used often if at all.


Also it allows Nintendo to maybe upgrade the system to HD in a couple years when teh market is actualy there for it.

Oh and a side not, when Rev comes out and teh WFC service gets up and running on it, you people BETTER F*&^&ing play online, considering all the bithcing peolple did over online this gen if they go out of their way to make a fvree online service and peopel stilld ont use it then ya'll suck.  

[cubist]

$14.99 is too much to pay for a month.  I think if Nintendo wanted a flat rate, it should be $5.99 per month.  Why?  This is again based on the tentative list of games in the survey.  There aren't enough games for $14.99 per month.  The only way the $14.99 would be justified if Nintendo had the best WiFi service on the market (e.g., headset, exclusive MMORPGs, etc.) to compliment the Virtual Console.  This is the only way I'd drop $15/ month.

Different observation:  Nintendo's Virtual Console is trying too hard to capitalize on the iTunes model for music and video.  Similarities arise because you can still go into more alternate, yet illegal, means of downloading videogames, music, and video.

[BranDonk Kong]

It's going to cost little-to-nothing for Nintendo to make most of the VC games available for download. Hopefully the price won't be anywhere near that high. $10 should be the max you have to pay for anything, and that should be for a 3rd party game that actually took a little money to acquire. Anything Nintendo-branded should be like $5 at the MOST. Also, it doesn't use proprietary discs, they said DVD-9 discs are the spec. The Gamecube used 8cm DVDs anyway (yes, they're DVDs).

[Ceric]

I would like to mention to everyone.  That a WoW subscription, most magazine subscription, large newspaper subscriptions, and most MMORPG's in general cost more then $14.99 a month and don't get you near the variety of play.  That is not an unreasonable price for all you can play in a month.  Even if all the games where 3 dollars if you played 7 unique games a month then you do better with the subscription.  It wouldn't be for everyone.  Some would rather forego that and just buy all there games straight.  But for the people who rent and play right now.  That would probably be the way to go.  As long as it's on a per month basis.

[Ian Sane]

"Many other developers used this same excuse to either not have a game support the Cube, or to say that they couldn't add more stuff to the game. However, they are usually just too lazy to squeeze everything in and/or need to finish the game quickly, so they rush it and don't add some things. Look at Nintendo; they can fit nearly anything onto the disc, and we know how complete their games are."

That's an excuse and on the Rev there shouldn't be excuses like that.  "Oh well third parties should do this."  No!  You can't expect third parties to learn a better way of doing something or change.  NINTENDO should change to accomodate the third parties.  Otherwise it's the "no one who knows what they're doing needs CDs" BS again.  If third parties are using a lack of storage as an excuse to release sub-par games then just suck it up and offer what the competition is using and eliminate that excuse.  Nintendo just gives people excuses to not support them.  If they just quit this annoying "we know what's best for everybody" routine and provided flexibility they would get more support from third parties and retailers and gamers period.

That's the problem with the HD thing.  MS and Sony are being inflexible by forcing everyone to use HD.  Nintendo has the opportunity to provide flexibility by making HD support optional.  Instead they do something inflexible as well.  "Oh well HD is expensive so NO ONE gets to use it."  Nintendo's approach is even more inflexible then the competition's because Nintendo is forcing their way of doing things on the consumer as well while Sony and MS are just forcing their way on third parties.  We haven't even seen a screenshot of a Rev game yet Nintendo has already given everyone a big fat excuse to not care about the Rev.  And for what purpose?  So they don't have to do HD?  They never DID.  They could have always given everyone the option and then just not support it themselves.

"Oh and a side not, when Rev comes out and teh WFC service gets up and running on it, you people BETTER F*&^&ing play online, considering all the bithcing peolple did over online this gen if they go out of their way to make a fvree online service and peopel stilld ont use it then ya'll suck."

I'd use it if I could.  My wireless router may or may not be supported depending on who I talk to.  It's not my fault if Nintendo can't get their sh!t together.  Some of us just can't get online even though we want to.

[Ceric]

If it's the same wi-fi support as the DS.  You might really want to consider getting a new wireless router anyways.  It could only lead to problems for you later because Nintendo isn't doing anything weird.  Nintendo tried that approach with the Gamecube.  "If you want to do progressive scan you can."  "If you want to go online will give you all the tools it's up to you to provide the back-end."  With the GCN Nintendo did give people options and they never took advantage of them.  When I bought my network adapter they were sold in stores.  Nintendo was planning on third parties wanting to use the functionality.  They themselves had no current plans for it at the time.  Ironically enough some of the back-end hardware things that Nintendo does to optimize there systems require specific resolutions.  I was reading a book about game developement and it mentioned how the GCN required you to have a fixed resolution of something by something.  If memory serves though it was higher then what a standard tv could put out.  The only reason you do something like that is A) There is something internal optimized for this resolution B) To simplify the API.  There is always a reason.  I'm sure that is partially why Sony and MS require HD.  A good example of this is ther is a way to do matrix multiplications in Computer Science that you take a matrix that is smaller then 70x70 I beleive grow to that size.  You can then use addition instead of multiplication for most of the steps and you actually finish up quicker than if you did a straight multiplication of the two small matrices.  When you can assume certian things there are some nice formulas for dealling with them for optimization or compression.  Which on that note I hope they have Hardware Compression/decompression.

[pboy38]

I dont think people should complain about hte prices of old games because if you remember n64 games used to cost 50 or even 60 dollars (like majora's mask isgust if their 20 dollars its still not that bad.  I think I would buy cool games like goldeneye for 20 still because its still really good.  especially if they put revolution control into it, that would be awesome

and then 3 dollars for nes games is just really low, for games like zelda and mario 3 dollars is awesome

[Hostile Creation]

"Nintendo just gives people excuses to not support them."

That's irrelevant.  The bottom line is that these crap games are unprofitable on Gamecube (and Nintendo systems in general) so they don't want to support Nintendo.  Nintendo doesn't have to give into anything when the problem clearly lies somewhere else entirely.

[Ian Sane]

"If it's the same wi-fi support as the DS. You might really want to consider getting a new wireless router anyways."

It actually is a new router.  My brother got a computer recently so we needed to add another internet connection and bought a router.  I hadn't bought a DS yet at this point and we weren't really planning on getting a wireless one but it made sense for the price.  Later I discovered it doesn't work but only some models of this particular router don't work (C and D work but A and B don't) and some people have found ways to get the ones that Nintendo says aren't supported to work.  Now we probably should have looked that up before buying the router but it wasn't a need at the time.  And I figured that this is a brand new router sold in stores so why wouldn't it work?  I can understand old out-of-date stuff not working but any name brand router currently sold in stores logically should be supported.  I don't know what sort of work is required on Nintendo's part to support all current market routers but I'm pretty surprised that anything that isn't obscure as hell is not supported.

Needless to say the whole situation is quite annoying and I sure as hell don't want to go through this hassle on the Rev particularly when there is NO REASON for wi-fi only on a console.

[Kairon]

Gamefly's game rental service over mail costs more than 14.99 a month for 2 games out at a time.

If you want to compare subscription models, compare it with Gamefly's. And it doesn't matter WHAT expenses gamefly has vs what expenses Nintendo has, the question here is what the market will bear and how many consumers are willing to pay that for the utility it gives them.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[animecyberrat]

yeah but people keep talking about the low cost to sell these already developed games and keep forgettting the HIGH cost of maintaining a network connection like WFC. Nintendo has to recoup thier cost and make a profit some how.

Also take into account some of these games were FLOPS, whatever sales thy had might not haev covered the dev cost so there fore still cost Nintendo money that they likely want to make back. Also I really like the idea of teh VC more now that I realize it gives Nintendo a chance to see how well some of thier obscure titles might sell and could translate into a form of market research in discovering which franshises to bring back, like mybe ice climbers or kid icaris perhaps oh and CRUISIN USA!

Still I want to pay once for a game and be able to save it to my PC and play it again in ten years without having to pay Nintendo more money.  I dont liek the idea of subscription service cuz what happnes if your over drawn in yoru account cuz you didnt balance your budget right, and they cancel you becaudse of a returned check or whatever and then what? you lose everything. Also how will it be if your really far into a long RPG game and you go to save and then you geta message tel;ling you are late on your payment and tehy shut your game off.  

Well ok worst case scenario there but still something to think about.


I dont knwo I would be a lot happier with more classic compilations liek a mario All starst update adding more games than teh first and then a Metroid compilation with the nes, snes and GB games or something.

[trip1eX]

I'm really looking forward to the Rev with everything we know now.

It's almost close to perfect.

I hope they have some kind of friend's list.  And voice support for friends.  I think they might drop the ball on that one tho.

$20 is too much for N64 games especially since I see Mario Sunshine, Zelda:WW, Metroid Prime, ....on sale for $15 somewhere every month or so and downloable games will quite a bit more profit for Nintendo than selling their games at retail.




 

[Stimutacs Addict]

ian, i bought a brand new Netgear router and it was absolutely terrible when it came to connecting the DS to teh WFC. It's issues with the router, though. the routers might not allow connections to something as simple as the DS (i read that it only needs 1-2 Mbps transfer rate, so it's possible that the router would stop you from connecting.)

i don't think you can blame nintendo for the service not being 100 percent compatible with every router on the market./.. if anything get mad at the manufacturer of the router; call them and ask what settings you can change to get your DS on.

[Requiem]

There is a faq posted on www.revolutionreport.com.

It basically covers everything....so sorry Ceric, but your actions were futile.