Author Topic: Next Gen. Dreamcast  (Read 23754 times)

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Offline mynameis

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2006, 05:28:12 PM »
Well that whole page was full of interesting stuff. I know one thing though, N will never stop making hardware or games cuz they always make a money. It was an old qoute but someone said(can't remember who) when asked a question about N that " there crying all the way to the bank" or lol'ing er something. ok done with my dumb post.................... i feel all warm,fuzzy and dumb.

Offline Gamebasher

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2006, 05:59:46 AM »
Khushrenada,

I agree with you that it was very kind of SEGA to support Nintendo. Still, I do suspect that, at least in the beginning, it was more a question of making as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, in order for them to break out of the financial quagmire they were in then, after the hardware exit.

It is correct that the Nintendo way, is the right way. There simply is no other videogame maker in existence, who can make games which feels that way when one plays them.

Whether SEGA becomes a second party, or a re-enters the hardware market remains to be seen.  

I don´t know what you mean, though, when you write that they still have some of the attributes which would create a repeat of the past if they entered the hardware market now. Which are they? I do see them as very much stronger now, and they have thrown in new and innovative games constantly, just like Nintendo themselves have done, and continue to do all the time!

I totally agree with you on you about the true reason behind the third-party support problem. I think that if Nintendo would once again become the market leader, they would control the direction of the entire market, which would save it once and for all.

"Why are Nintendo's games better? Because they've been making them longer and their system's provide what they need to keep making them of such high quality. Also, Nintendo needs their games to be of high quality to sell their systems. Thus they work hard at making sure their games excel."

Yes! And THAT is the same reason why I think that SEGA will one day be wanting to re-enter the hardware market. But, not until one either Sony or Microsoft are gone! Then they will fill out the vacant space left behind, since I don´t think there will ever be room for 4 hardware-makers on the market! We saw what happened to Nokia NGAGE and we see now how it goes for the latest all new entry to the handheld market!

I do agree that it won´t be until the next generation that we will see who will remain of the two console makers.

Thank for a nice post, by the way!

Let´s all keep sharing our ideas and insights!








 

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Offline Khushrenada

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2006, 09:07:55 PM »
Hi Gamebasher.

Let me explain my thought process in response to your question about what I think Sega's faults would be. It's not anything specific but I was just thinking back to the old days of Snes and Genesis.

If you had to choose one console, I would go with the Snes always. While Sega had some good games, to me, now and then, I always felt Nintendo's games were better. Now it might not be fair to compare this because I haven't played Vectorman but let's compare it to Donkey Kong Country. Vectorman was Sega's response to Nintendo's DKC, at least in graphics. Now, I don't know what the gameplay was like but choosing between the two, I'd take DKC. (And I consider DKC to be the worst of the Donkey Kong Countries). The reason is because I look at DKC and you've got characters that show personality. But Vectorman is just a bunch of shapes. At least from what I've seen, again might not be the best comparison.

The reason I bring that up is aside from a couple other notables like Sonic or Shenmue, Sega (at least to me), doesn't quite have this personality. I can't quite seem to find the words to discribe it. The best I can come up with is the reason my brother hates Sega. He always says they try to hard to be cool. Like Sonic Adventure 2 in the opening level of Station Square, they've got song's with lyrics. Or the final boss fight of SA2, the music has singing as well. I understand what he means by that. To me, the Station Square song can be corny and annoying but I do like the final song. So, to me Sega always has this sort of unbalance to it. I like it and hate it at the same time. Sometimes it works to their advantage and sometimes it doesn't.

One more example is F-Zero GX. I absolutely love this game and consider it one of the best experiences I've had with the Gamecube. I think it's outstanding and one of Sega's best games ever. The franchise really seemed to click well with Sega's collaboration. All the unlockables that Sega will throw in a game worked well. They gave each racer a bio and themesong. And again, while I like some songs compared to other, it gave a real good blend of personality. Even the whacked out story was pretty enjoyable. At the same time, people often point to the first scene of F-Zero with Black Bull being confronted by the badguy as one of the problems with Sega which I can only describe again as their trying to be too cool.

So, one reason being that I still feel Nintendo compared to Sega is the better software provider for the most part. The other is the fact that people must of chosen Sony over Sega for a reason and I'm not sure it was just the marketing of Sony. Yes, we can site the way they started to bungle up the release of their consoles as turning people away, but there had to be something from Sony that appealed to people more then Sega. The marketing might have helped but I think games like Final Fantasy 7 and Grand Theft Auto also helped steer people to that choice for a console. I'm not sure that if Sega went back into the console business they would necessarily get games that really seemed to appeal to people so much that would make them choose their console.

I'm not sure if I was able to fully convey my thoughts on the matter that well but it's more a feeling that I have then any real glaring evidence on their part. The truth is, I would consider buying a Sega console if they went back to market but I'd want to wait first and see what games it would get.

Now for some quick points:

I do see them as very much stronger now, and they have thrown in new and innovative games constantly.

I agree with you on this as well. I feel that Sega has really turned around and are much stronger. I know many people who still love the Dreamcast and consider it to be the console released. Most people agree now that it might be Sega's best console though I think for the most part it's pretty close between it and the Genesis. Still, with this sentiment and Sega games keeping their appeal, they are definitly stronger.

I agree with you that it was very kind of SEGA to support Nintendo. Still, I do suspect that, at least in the beginning, it was more a question of making as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, in order for them to break out of the financial quagmire they were in then, after the hardware exit.

That's a good point I never thought of before. Did Nintendo offer Sega some big contract to get the Sonic games on their console? Because Sonic is Sega's biggest money-maker (as far as I know) so it does seem strange that they wouldn't have released all games on all consoles to make as much money as they could. If not, then I think it really shows the support Sega has for Nintendo.

Two other things: If Sega does really support Nintendo, then why do we always seem to hear about Sega and Xbox collaborating? Last year, someone showed a chart of the evolution of controllers since Atari down through to the new Revolution controller. What I found interesting was they connected the Xbox controller as almost the successor of the Sega controller. Also, people always seem to talk about Sega releasing their back catalogue of games on the Xbox360 as a virtual library like Nintendo's doing with Revolution. Sega, I believe has never said that was happening, and has already made some deal with Gametap. But people always seem to think that Sega's more likely to do that then release them on the Revolution?

The final thing was, as I was posting this and referring to the Snes, I was thinking to myself as I often do, that the Snes was Nintendo's best console. I've got the most games for that system than any other Nintendo system. Then it occured to me. Maybe that's because Nintendo and Sega were the market leaders that helped make the games so good. Therefore, you're probably right that Nintendo and Sega leading the market would result in a better market for fans.

That's my novel. You probably weren't expecting something so long but stuff just kept coming to me.
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Offline Ceric

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2006, 07:52:41 AM »
In the SNES days:

Sega was to Nintendo as Apple was to PC's

This generation, you'll like this it's ironic:

Nintendo is to the rest of the game industry as Apple is to the rest of the computer industry

This one is even better but I'll have to check you computer information badge here.

If we think of it like OSs:

Sega's Dreamcast is to Consoles as BeOS was to Computers.



Got to love parallels and associations.  Interpret this as you may but those are my thoughts about as concise as you can possible be.
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2006, 01:55:31 PM »
Ok well as the resident SEGA fan and hardcore SEGA supporter let me step in and make some points both gamebasher and Khushrenada left out.


Back when Sega announced they were leaving the console marlet Sega executives went on record stateing they would rather suport Nintendo because A) they have similar views on games, and B) Sega percieved Sony as the reason why they had lsot so much money, and C) teh GC was teh easiest to develop for and therefore they coulod make ports faster.

Now for Khushrenada
I have some testaments that may or may not matter to yo but pelase here me out. I was a STRONG Genesis suport from back in the day and I feel Sega has and still does have a much stronger line up of 1st party games than Nintendo, not that NOnetndos games arent good cuz tehy ahve some of the best games out there, but Sega had a lot more variety.

Please dont take this the wrong way its just me letting you knwo what great games SEGA did make and telling a little about them from a hands on point of view, verses hear say.


First a guik list of some of thier hits

Sonic the Hedgehog Series

Sonic ADventure Series

Virtua Fighter Series

Virua Cop Series

House of the Dead Series

Clockwork Knight Series (VERY GOOD GAMES)

Shenmue (one of the best games ever)

Vector man (nothing liek yuor description I will dexzribe better in details below)

Panzer Dragoon Series (very good AAA titles plus Sagas was the BEST 32bit era graphics hand down. Well ok FF7 was maybe slightly better but still good game)

Daytona USA series

Super Monaco Series

Alex Kid Series

Toe Jam and Earl Series (definatley must play these games!)

Streets of Rage Series (AAA titles and worth any purchase)

Afterburner series

Biohazard Battle (great game underrated but very good)

Shinobi (THE BEST Ninja series ever, even better than Ninja Gaiden and Double Dragon)

Eternal Champions

Phantasy Star series (first 4 are the S&^T!!! Online is so-so if your into MMORPGS)

Shining Force series (words cant describe)

Collumns (pretty good puzzle game)

Mr Bones (awesome game)

Bug! Series (pretty fun platformer with some humorous FMV sequences and lots of action)

Super Monkey Ball (not my thing but most peopel find it fun and stuff)

Skies of Arcadia (Great RPG)

Fighting Vipors series

2k Sports 2k2 and before are all Sega games also and were much better than most EA sports equivelents.

Joe Montana Football (one of the BEST 16 bit era football games and inspired Madden games too!)

Seaman (if yo havent played it your missing out)

and the list goes on. I couldnt ever list ever good game they make but I wanted to list some of thier better more popular games.


I wont get oo into descritpions cuz thast what gamefaqs is for butI will defend teh titles thsat equale or rival Nintenods equivelants just as someone who has been a supporter of both companies and has most of the games from each system.


Vector man was a lt more compleiing than DKC in that there was far mroe action and there was a lot more animations going on in the levels and he had so many moves. The Graphics were not the same style as DKC *great game in its own rigth but not even same class as VM due to Genre differences) but since that was Segas resposne to DKC it gets the comaprisons anyway.

Vector man is a Sci Fi action game where your fighting robots and such in very HUGE levels and you have some of the BEST graphics the Genesis was capable of. YES DKC was a good game too and deserves it props but Vector man was an Action game where as DCK was a platforing game with ugly apes as characters (ok I am biased I hate DOnkey Kong as a character but i like the DKC games)

Phatasy Star- These were the BEST role playing games Sega ever made, before they wentonline. Simliar to FF in that the stories changed every game but there were themes thatr an throughe ach game. Unlike FF however the Magic was always a mistery and there was space explorsation and aliens and Sci fi stuff going on too not just some coorpetaion/empire being greedy. Also the graphics were top notch for the time and teh game play was excelent. Plus these had GREAT stories.


NiGHTS Into Dreams This is THE game to own if you had or want a Saturn and if Sega ever wants to make mad cash all they have to do is re-release it for modern systems with updated graphics or make a true sequel and people will flock to it, this game was one of the few that made profit for Sega in thier troulbled years. Basicaly it is a platform adventure type quest game where you travel through DREAMS trying to defeat the Nightmare and resdtore peace to the Drams of your child characters. What makes it fun is theres 2 typs of gameplay, the standard paltforming running around collecting items and such and the way cool flying sequences where you get to do all kinds of amazing tricks and fly through lops and fight bosses and have fun.

Sonic the Hedgehog, I dont need to describe sonic nor tell how compelling his games are or why they are so popular, but I will say that Sega was right for making him thier mascot and they keep on making great Sonic games even today, ,mostly handhelds but the Advenure games are good and Shadow isnt too bad.

Sonic really isnt in the same class as mario nor should the be compared or contrasted rather Mario has great attributes and appeals to many peole and Sonic has great attributed and appealls to masses as well. Basicaly for comparison skaes though Mario has always and propably will always focus more on platforming and pwerups and stomping enemies and just all around fun stuff, Sonic however is known for being far more action oriented and MUCH faster paced and generaly easier to beat than Mario games.  Both are great and niether is better than the other. Sonic is all Sega Needs to survive but its sure as hellisnt all they have thank God.


Super Monaco and Sega Rally- These are hands down some of THE BEST arcader racing games out there, and SEGA has a history of making some of the BEST Arcade racing games in the industry, dont take my word for iot, Nintendo seen this too and let Sega make 2 arcade racing games for them, now thats how good thier reputation is in the arcade racing feiled, second to NONE. HEll even Virtua Racing and Daytona USA are good. I hate it that Nintenod never tries to make racing gamesd up to the quality of Sega because the GC was sure lacking in this field and Nintendos F Zera never cut it for me. I hear its a good game and tahst fine but Sega hands down owns the arcade racing title and they have so mamy more great racing ames I cant name them all. Not to mention teh fun and humorous Crazy Taxi and its clones


Virtua Cop/House of the Dead These are 2 of the nighest rated and most popular Light Gun arcade games arend and 2 of the most fun ones at that. House of the Dead was the first game to push the Dreamcast ahrdware to its limits in the Arcade board and the 3rd instal ment was too powerful for even the Xbox so Sega left it Arcade only. (havent heard if they plan to bring it to 360 or Rev but I will buy whatever system gets it tahst for sure.)

Virtua Cop is same story, Sega made a fantastic game that pushed the system to its limits  and keeps getting sequels and keeps getting better and better.

Virtua Fighter now thisis a milestone for Sega, its THE game that sold 32X systems AND Saturns in the begining and why in the first year Satuirn OUT SOLD Playstation.  VF 2 and 3 also were million sellers and then 4 and 5 sorta got lost in the mix due to the rise of SC and TEKKEN but the series lives on and even gets spin offs once in a while (VF Kids, Fighters Megamix, Virtua Quest, etc)

Panzer Dragoon Now this is a series that Sega has not taken lightly and its sad they dont do more with it. These are definatley very compelling and intense action shooting games that take place ina fantasy world and if you neve rplayed any of them believe me tehse games are TOP NOTCH. Nothing before or after compares to the originality and complexity of these games. Yet there maintian strong gameplay and very intriguing story lines. Also the series had a highly accliamed RPG tie in Called PD Sagas and an Xbox exclusive sequel.

Streets of Rage/Altered Beast I will lump these two togetehr as they have many similarities. Both are arcade style Ebat em ups and both are GREAT agmes. Streets of rage was fast paced action and decent soptry and charcters for genre and AB was pure genious. It was a fantasy based action game witha tiwst, you were humans to star out and then upgraded into anilmals and then dragons. This game and series lives on today and will probably get a good sequel when the time comes and could very well be system sellers if Sega choe to reenter the market and if they did right.

I knwo theres way too many more games that Sega has they OWN thier competition and if Sega choses to start spreading these franchises around next Gen they will surely live on. Also if they chose to reenter console market they could easily do so now that they have better management and tons more money plus new fans and strong franchises and some of the best talent around Yu Suzuki and Yuji Naka are up there with Miyomoto for sure.  
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Offline IceCold

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2006, 04:25:15 PM »
I hate it that Nintenod never tries to make racing gamesd up to the quality of Sega because the GC was sure lacking in this field and Nintendos F Zera never cut it for me. I hear its a good game and tahst fine but Sega hands down owns the arcade racing title

Did you know that Nintendo didn't actually develop F-Zero GX; it was .. guess who? SEGA! They outsourced the franchise, and I must say, Sega did a great job on it. It was a bit shallow, but the gameplay itself was brilliant. And if you really consider yourself such a big SEGA fan, do yourself a favour; give this game another chance. You won't be disappointed..
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2006, 05:08:52 PM »
um yeah did you read my entire post?

that was exactly what I was saying, how GREAT Sega is at making Racing games, and hwo I wish Nintendo couldmake good racing games also, Crusin USA was good and it was exclusive to Nintendo but it was made by Midway.

Anyways I havent played F-Zero I just seen the cars in F-Zero and am not into futuristic style racing games, kinda like why i didnt like Wipe out so much. I am into REALISTIC looking cars and racing games, kinda why I like most Sega racers, and of course Gran Turrismo.

That just goes back to teh complaints I have always had with Nintendo and thier recent f-ups with Game Cube, there are so many types of games it is missing its sickening. And most of what is offered is midiocre except the occaissional oddities.  

What I was saying though was I dont think people see how great of a company As far as games goes that Sega really is, and was using every example I know to show how many good games they have and how they even have genres Nintendo doesnt.  The Dreamcast actualy sold pretty good while it was in production and the games were selling well too, Sega was just in such massive debt from previous years and the knew that once the PS2 marketing blitx begun they wouldnt stand a chance, considering how the first playstation, while inferior technologicaly to Saturn AND Dreamcast, managed to out sell BOTH combined. Sega knew they had to exit Console market to stat afloat and it didnt sdo them much good anyways they ended up Merging with abigger company just to keep thier properties alive.



Now that Sega has more money than Nintendo AND they are increasing their fanbase by spreeading thier properties around they actualy standa  good chance of making a return to consoles, IF they chose to do so and if they decided to market it right. I can honestly see them say, goig with a console that plays thier back catelog of games, Virtual Console style for cart based games, and maybe including built in emulators for the disk based stuff if possible. I can also see them making some extremely excelent 1st party games for the system and building ties to 3rd party developers, the Dreamcast, although sold less than GC, did not suffer the YOU KNWO WHAT image Nintendo has and actauly had a larger variety of games in its short lifespan.
Also many games that were started on DC were ported to other consoles after teh demise of DC and in fact Dreamcast kept going in Japan and other teritories until 2003.  And I think it was late 2004 when the last DC game was published officialy.

Also I was over at Sega forums today and have been reading some of the posters comments thier and it no surprise they are all praying for the death of Nintendo and the return of Sega.


Sega fans are way more unreasonable than  Nintendo fans it seams.  



If Sega is to return to making consoles it probably wont be until a year or two after ps3 and rev get going so they can see what happens thier. Sega is more than competent when it comes to making games and marketing systems, infact they actualy are far braver than Nintendo when it comes to marketing, they just made some bad managment calls a few years ago and hopefully learned from them. I do like how Sega executives and developers all praise Nintendo and admit openly they prefer making GC games and will support Rev also. I just hope that the new Sonic game gets to the Rev because frankly I will have to go where ever sonic goes im more Sega fan than Nintendo fan. Ok well only slightly because I like both a lot.










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Offline IceCold

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2006, 06:59:06 PM »
The way you worded it - Nintendo's F-Zero didn't cut it for me - and in the same paragraph you were talking about how great SEGA is at making racing games, so it seemed like you didn't know that SEGA made F-Zero. Anyway, Nintendo can definitely make great racing titles (even if you may not like them) - look at F-Zero 64 and the SNES iteration.
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Offline darknight06

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2006, 07:45:51 PM »
I'll give you Virtua Fighter (4 only, the rest sucked)  and Skies but the rest of them...

Crazy Taxi was good for an hour and died right after that.  Very overrated IMO and didn't need to be ripped off.

Phantasy Star 4 was the best out of that bunch, the rest I could care less for.  That goes double for 3.

Sega's racing games were decent games, but to me it felt like if I've played one, I've played them all.  Same goes for their lightgun series.

Dynamite Cop is a fun little diversion, BUT THAT'S IT!

Shinobi does NOT beat Ninja Gaiden, maybe the arcade ones but definitely NOT the home series.

The Sonic Adventures (SA1, 2, Heroes, Shadow) don't even exist in my view.  Shoddy gameplay, yet trying to look too cool and failing in the process.  They don't even touch the 2D games.

Eternal Champions is a disgrace to fighting games, hugely unbalanced, controlled poorly, and even went as far as to RIP OFF SNES Street Fighter 2 sound effects.  I can't believe you mentioned this.  

Same thing goes to Fighting Vipers and Last Bronx, like the DoA series it was only made to make people who sucked at fighting games look good.  SSBM at tournament level is FAR superior in gameplay depth, whether it's traditional or not. (believe me, many top players see SSBM as a top fighting game whether you want to believe it or not, I attend the tournaments all the time alongside Tekken 5.1 and Soul Calibur 3)

Trust me, Sega is good, but they aren't nearly as godly as you're making them out to be.  Nintendo isn't godly either.  

Offline Khushrenada

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2006, 08:26:44 PM »
Alright, I'll keep this short. Thanks for the posts, animecyberrat. That information on why Sega chose to work with Nintendo is very interesting.

In reference to Vectorman, I stated that it was just my perception. I know the game is in Sonic Gems and I'd like to try it sometime but I didn't know much about it. So, I'm glad someone set that straight.

In refernce to your game list, I have to say that about half the games I recognize and the other half I don't. Maybe it's been to long since the Genesis days. Of course, I've always followed Nintendo products more then Sega. You're probably right when you state that most be don't see Sega as a great of a company they are. The truth is, it hasn't really been since they started working with Nintendo on the Gamecube that I really began paying attention to them and the games they release.

I'd agree with your statement that Sega's console's have a wider variety of games. I was referring before how Nintendo is defined by their franchises, has a personality and an image, even if to some people it's tiku tiku tiku! , where as Sega it's hard to describe them. Maybe it's because they have such a wide range of genre's that you can't really define Sega with a few concepts. Again, I'll just state how that might be part of the problem. As someone who has not really followed Sega or is a huge Sega fan, it can be hard to seperate it from Sony.

I know you might not get that because you stated that whole library but just try to follow how I get that. You stated that you like realistic racers and you stated Super Monaco Sega Rally and Gran Turismo. Now, I'm sure there are big differences between the gameplay of those titles. I've never played them because I myself don't care for realistic racing games. Now, the point I'm getting at is, how is a person supposed to know which game is better by looking at them? They're all racing games with realistic vehicles set in the real world. If I don't recognize the game developer, how am I supposed to know which is better? If I don't know half of the other Sega titles or what they're about, how can I compare it to other games in the same genre? I think that's one thing Nintendo does well. They differentiate themselves from the competition. Mario Kart, Baseball, Soccer and so one. You know what you're getting with these titles. People may accuse them of using their franchises too much but it helps seperate their game from the competitors by showing something people recognize. However, with all the racing clones out there, how do you know your going to get a better game with Sega Rally then with Ford Racing?

Now, I know you've got a better understanding of Sega than I do and I'm not trying to argue about which developer is better. I'm just trying to post what I felt might still be a problem with Sega re-entering the market. Namely, they just have to be able to distinguish themselves. I think Sony and Sega sort of blurred together a bit with a few genres and both appealled to the same audience. Since a lot of that audience was getting frustrated with Sega, they went with the closest thing which, to me, is Sony. Anyways, that should hopefully let you know where I'm coming from on this and what my perception is.
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2006, 05:39:01 AM »
yeah that makes sense due sure. I just think they are doing a good job reestablishing thie popular franchises. I know that Sonic team hs some of the best developers in the world and Yu Suzuki and Yuji Naka are harolded as geniuses by many.  As for Racing games, well I just liek real looking cars games that move fast and feel like your in a real race, Need For Speed does ok so its not a total waste but I do prefer Segas Arcade style racers becaus e they are short and easy to play. And fast.


I wasnt atacking I was educating just cuz I am a Sega loyalist and must defend them to the death


Seriously though I do think that Sega had a good chance of building a good fan base and forming alliences with dvelopers since tehy have a history of making great games. Sega has more games in the Hall of Fame and in Museums and things liek that than any body else. Epescialy Yu Suzuki, he gets credit for the bulk of Segs hits. Shemnue, Virtue Fighter series, Virtua Cop Super Manaco, Shinobi, and more.

Also Sega has been the undisputed King of Arcades forever, not just from Sega fans view, but from bussiness and innovative stance, they make more arcade games than any body, and tahst I guess what I lvoe aout Sega they make Arcade games and translate those to consoles so wonderfully and I am a huge arcade fan.

To Darkknight I agree that some of those games are crap I was just listing the games tehy are known for cuz I got the impression they were being ignored and as deleopers they have many good games that get drowned out by all the other crap, you knwo just like eveyr body else.


Anyways I just love Sega and Nintendo both a lot but I always liked Sega  a little more, mostly they have diversity and put a lot of effort into thier good games and they kick ass at arcade games. and Um VR Cop and House of the Dead are suposed to play liek eveyr other light game, tehres only 1 formula for good light gun games and they nailed it right the first time. But yu gotta be a fan of light guns games to care.


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Offline IceCold

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2006, 01:31:50 PM »
As for Racing games, well I just liek real looking cars games that move fast and feel like your in a real race, Need For Speed does ok so its not a total waste but I do prefer Segas Arcade style racers becaus e they are short and easy to play. And fast.

Got Burnout 2?

And if you're such a big fan of arcades, then I don't understand why you don't like the concept of the Rev controller. It has immense potential, and really, it is the only one that can truly bring the arcade experience home. That's one of the reasons I'm excited for it, since I can just imagine what developers like SEGA will do with it.

Speaking of which, F-Zero GX had that arcadey feel that SEGA is known for - the music, the speed and everything. So, again, please at least try it once and don't make a judgement so quickly.
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2006, 02:35:57 PM »
Um I have considered trying it just cuz Sega made it, but every time I go to buy it I just dont know, I hate Captain Falcon from Smash bros and that level where your racing from the cars just irritates me. But when the price goes down again il check it out, its down to 15 dollars at walmart Im waiting for clearance price of 10 though. I dont even buy Need for Speed games at full price I like racing games but not THAT much.

And I still havent mad eup my mind on revmote, I said that so many times before, I have doubts about certain areas but I expect that shooting games, especial the light gun type, will be perfect and that somehwat excites me. Plus I plan on playing Duck Hunt first thing.

I guess I dont rememebr saying I hated the revmote I only thought I was saying it has potentil to suck and I dont put much stock init untilk i see hwo it works first hand. Other peopel have similar doubts it called fear of change and for me I can adapt easily most of the time.


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Offline Gamebasher

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #63 on: January 19, 2006, 08:53:30 AM »
To me, the F-Zero game on GCN showed just what can come out of it when Nintendo and SEGA join forces in the creation of a videogame! When I played it, I felt like both playing a Nintendo game and a SEGA game, atmosphere-wise! Still, Nintendo gaming atmosphere was the least predominant in that game, which was kind of sad to me, as that made it feel less compelling to play again.

But it was clear to me that SEGA has lost none of it´s potency, yet is being eternally surpassed by Nintendo in terms of sheer gaming genious! I see them as Number #1 (Nintendo), and #2 (SEGA), with the Nintendo games being more wholesome, more complete, more lasting, and more replayable! It really shines through that SEGA made their way from mostly arcadey like type of games, with Nintendo actually going away from that in the early days after that market had secured it´s first real success, and then going into exclusively making games for home consoles. That must be the reason why they are the best in console gaming overall! Makes a lot of sense, I think!

I believe that if SEGA can get it´s games to shine on the Revolution with that fabled new controller, grounds will have been created for it to launch a standalone SEGA console again. It is simply a question of beefing up enough userbase support and brandname recognition once again, taking gamers from Playstation and over to Revolution, and keep them really happy there. Then, once one of the other two bows out, space is left for them to fill out with their next-generation Dreamcast!

And do you know what? I really really think this is all going to happen! It is a secret though, why I think so!    
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2006, 05:08:27 AM »
Well I agree somewhat about Sega games being great because they stuck to arcade formula, but you must be misisng out ona lot of games if you think they are polished. Try Shinobi or Toe Jam and Earl, pr Panzer Dragoon, or Shining Force these games are some milestones in gaming history, and they keep getting sequels to this day, well SHining Force was sorta replaced with Shenmue, a nother great Sega game.


BUT as much as  i hope for Sega to returnt o consoles, staying with Nintendo only is not the way to go, they have been building thier fan base by staying multi platform, just go over to Sega forums and chat with teh guys tehre, most hard core Sega fans, hate Nintendo and hate how much Sega suports Nintendo. They all back up wither ps2 or Xbox as does Sega.

I think Sega will continue with thier proven strategy of spreading thier games around as thats how to buld brand recognition. Also Sammy who owns Sega now has goenon record saying they want Sega to fade out of COnsole business all together and focus on Arcades, where they dominate right now. As long as Sammy is around to tell Sega no new consoles then tehre will be no new consoles.

I do however urge you Nintendo fans here who also like Sega to go ver to sega.com and see what they guys there actauly say about Sega and Nintendo, most of them are pissed Sonic games are all over GC. Me I think Sega and Nintendo have similarity but Sega has many ideals Nintendo disagrees with. Also Sega still has thier Theme parks and Sonic is the ONLY Non Disney character featured at Disney world, not Mario but Sonic, so they definatley do have that mass appeal and name recognition, not to put mariodown he kicks ass too, but I do think Sonic is bigger now.


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Offline JonLeung

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2006, 08:56:32 AM »
Uh...no.  About Sonic being the only non-Disney character at Walt Disney World part.

There were two Sonic the Hedgehog cartoons back in the early 90s (I'm not talking about the more recent Sonic X).  One of the cartoons was by Dic.  Another was by Disney.  At least I recall that being the case.

And I believe Walt Disney World has/had Star Tours, based on Star Wars.  I don't know if it has anything to do with Disney being involved in the Ewoks/Droids cartoons or whatever.

In any case, I don't see what the big deal is about Sonic at Walt Disney World/Disneyland/EuroDisney/wherever.  You made it sound like being featured at a Disney theme park says you've "made it".  If that was the case, why doesn't anyone care what the heck Mickey Mouse is up to these days?

I don't understand why Sega fans should dislike Nintendo still.  I think Sega and Nintendo are more similar to each other than Microsoft and Sony.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2006, 09:43:29 AM »
What IS Mickey Mouse up to these days? Seriously.

Offline IceCold

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2006, 11:22:01 AM »
I do however urge you Nintendo fans here who also like Sega to go ver to sega.com and see what they guys there actauly say about Sega and Nintendo, most of them are pissed Sonic games are all over GC.

That's absurd.. Sonic games get rejected on both the PS2 AND the Xbox, whereas he's found a home on the GameCube. What kind of reasoning is that? And I thought real SEGA fans hated Sony more? Then why would they want Sega to support the PS2?
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Offline The Omen

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2006, 02:36:56 PM »
Quote

That's absurd.. Sonic games get rejected on both the PS2 AND the Xbox, whereas he's found a home on the GameCube. What kind of reasoning is that? And I thought real SEGA fans hated Sony more? Then why would they want Sega to support the PS2?


Because the Sega-Nintendo bad blood(in terms of fans not necassarily companies) goes back to 1990.  
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Offline Ceric

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2006, 03:20:35 PM »
I think Mickey mouse is fighting for his life right now.  It's about time for him to become public domain.  Disney definitely does not want that.

PS- He's also doing wicked Kung-fu in a black robe.
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2006, 05:26:32 PM »
um well Sega sure makes abig deal about Sonic at Disney world, and so what if Disney made a cartoon based on Sonioc, he is sitll a SEGA trademark, that was the point, and I was only useing that IN ADDITION TO OTHER FACTS to show his immense popularity. Also The reactors of SOnic the Hedgehog stated publicly that they desinged him to look likie Mickey Mouse, thast why the original Genesis Sonic looked the way he did.

I also am confused why Sega fans hate Nintendo so much and liek Sony especialy since Playstation is what hurt them the most, but PS2 does get Segas better games, Sonic aside. Game Cube gets a few decent Sega games here and there but the REALLY good ones got o either ps2 or X-box and since Panzer Dragoon and Sega Rally are on Xbox and those are big time Sega gamers games it amkes sense to me.

I got an Xbox for Panxer Dragoon and Toe Jam and Earl 3 since they are exclusive to that system, well and Shemue 2. But I see Sonic on GC and I buy those also. I wanted PS2 for Shinobi and a couple others but I think GC and Xbox is enough for me, since Sega is known for releasing thie big games over on PC also. So I am pretty covered as Sega fan. And the DS gets good support also.

And I agree with woever said that alot of hurt feelings stems form SNES days, Sega fans are still sore that SMS and Genesis were out sold by Nintendo systems. I always did like Sega more but Nintendo was always a close second for me. But what do I know I still play my Atari 2600 and am currently seeking 3Do and Neo Geo games/systems.


Maybe it has something to do with hwo Sega commercials used to bash Nintendo so much and now its alot easier to make fun of Nintendo so Sega fans feel better following Sony or Microsoft. Also tehre was the nasty rumor that Microsoft bought Sega and teh fact that Dreamcast had a Windows logo on it. So Sega fans maybe are kind drawn to Xbox, I hear a lot of people comparwe it to DC in so many ways and I kinda agree to some extent.

But if they want to make aconsole in the future they need to doa beter job at winning success in Japane, they always had Europe locked down and had greater success in US but Japane they always bombed. Even though Japan got better games a lot of the times.  

I used to hang out ont he Sega boards daily, like I do here, but the people there are far more imature than here and I got sick of the stupidity coming form those jerks all the time.

anyways thats all i got for now I dont want to starta  fight I just wanted to mention how Sega is gasining ground in making a comeback in peopels minds. but its not worth it to starta  fight so Ill let it be for now.





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Offline Ceric

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #71 on: January 20, 2006, 05:53:14 PM »
Animecyberrat you made a good point even if you weren't trying to.  Sega does release certain franchises exclusively for certian consoles that they beleive have the proper demographic for it.  That being said it makes perfect since to put Sonic on the GCN because that is where most of the "older" gamers are.  Though I got a Saturn and been meaning to get NiGHTS Into Dreams, that was the only reason I got the system.   I hear its the cat's meow.  Everyone keeps saying that it was the pinnacle of Sega.  If so why hasn't it been remade or re-released?  So I'm going to play it and see if it's just a fond memory or not.
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #72 on: January 20, 2006, 06:00:25 PM »
Sega doesnt want to disapoint fans by making a game that doesnt live up to expectations, at elast thast what they keep saying when aver asked about Nights, Yuji Naka says he WANTS to do a Nighst sequel but Corprate Sega says not right now. Rev would be perfect place for it though.


I just got rid of my saturn recently which  i wont explain but Nighst was one of my most played games on it. But I think theres game out now that surpase it in gameplay but what made it so cool was playinginside DREAMS, kinda liek what makes Nightmar eon Elms Street so cool is cuz Freddy is in your DREAMS/ but only if you care about dreams I guess.  
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Offline The Omen

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RE:Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #73 on: January 20, 2006, 06:24:03 PM »
Quote

Maybe it has something to do with hwo Sega commercials used to bash Nintendo so much and now its alot easier to make fun of Nintendo so Sega fans feel better following Sony or Microsoft.


The hatred definitely started with those Nintendo bashing commercials.  Suddenly, Nintendo fans were made fun of because they liked Mario, and not the cool Hedgehog.  It was pretty personal for a long time.  I feel a lot of Sega fans jumped to the Xbox after the Dreamcast because they didn't want to go with Sony, who caused theDreamcast's demise, nor did they want to crawl back to Nintendo.

Obviously, if you were too young in the early 90's to care either way, you probably would think this is poppycock.  But I was in it, and dealt with it daily.  It was not pretty, and I still have a bias against Sega, almost on a subconcious level.
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Offline Renny

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RE: Next Gen. Dreamcast
« Reply #74 on: January 20, 2006, 07:40:47 PM »
I don't buy that Sega fans migrated to the Xbox. And the sales back me up. I believe that all multiplatform Sega games have done best on GameCube, also. [Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.]
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