Author Topic: What will you be able to do in Zelda REV?  (Read 2115 times)

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Offline Requiem

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What will you be able to do in Zelda REV?
« on: December 25, 2005, 09:51:39 AM »
I wanted to create this thread, not only so we could speculate about how this game will work, but to also find any potential game mechanics that could lengthen the production of the game. I still believe this game will come out late spring; however, it may have trouble doing so since adding in an entirely new control system and working out the bugs could potentially delay the game.

I probably should start this thread off with my own set of theories, but honestly, I don't feel like it at the moment.
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Offline Chris1

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RE: What will you be able to do in Zelda REV?
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2005, 10:04:18 AM »
I'm kind of wondering that myself, wait, are you talking about TP being played on the Rev, or the Zelda revolution original game whenever that comes out?

Offline Requiem

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RE: What will you be able to do in Zelda REV?
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2005, 10:45:42 AM »
Well now that you mention it, both. We can still draw comparisons and see how a game like Zelda could work. Also, in between such comments, we could see if any of those game mechanics would lengthen the games production.

The reason for this is to find to the best of our knowledge, when TP may be finalized. In order to give a good guess we need to brainstorm any possible uses for the REVmote in a Zelda game, then add a couple months for polishing and maybe a couple months for things game related, yet not REV control related.

That's the focus, but I could careless if you want to post your control scheme just for discussions sake.
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I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

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Offline IceCold

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RE:What will you be able to do in Zelda REV?
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2005, 05:00:15 PM »
Well, the obvious is to have the A as the context sensitive/ attack button (unless you have to use the NRC to perform those actions) and the B trigger as something to do with the sword. Then the L1 (Z1?) would be used for lock-on targetting and L2 would be used for shield. The D-Pad would be used for items and up would be first person view. When using some or all of the items, the motion sensing is needed to aim (hookshot, bow etc) or throw or what have you.

HOWEVER, this isn't drastic enough, and the whole thing is not worth it if Nintendo delays the game just to add this. That's why I'm curious to see how Nintendo handles it, because it's one of their flagship titles and if they mess it up, the Rev will already look bad. I'm admittedly not good at thinking out of the box, so I'd like to see everyone else's ideas.
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Offline Requiem

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RE:What will you be able to do in Zelda REV?
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2005, 10:20:33 AM »
I guess it's time I add my own scheme...

I've put some thought into it and coming up with a proper control scheme is actually quite difficult. I came up with one that I think is the most complete and intuitive. I tried to find a balance between classic or IANistic controls, and revolutionary control. I feel that the balance between the two would be the most beneficial.

Well first off, I'll explain the control scheme in three parts: Link on foot; Link Attacking; and Link on horse-back.

Link on foot
----------------------

-- Analog stick -- controls Link's movement.
-- REVmote -- will effect, and or, completely control the camera. When running normally, the camera will be mostly automatic. You can point the Revmote left to look left, but you don't have complete control over it. It is more like temporary control. So you can quickly look at what's above you or to the side of you if you please, simply by pointing. However, the camera will return to normal after a short time, unless you return the camera yourself. The purpose for this is to allow precise pre-targeting. If you want to target the beast on the left, rather than the one on right, then simply point towards that beast and lock-on. Now, if you twist the controller on its side, then it will allow you complete control over the camera. It's kinda like "Up-C" in past Zeldas, except the view is over the shoulder and you can still run. So now you can look everywhere, and even zoom in or out by moving the controller forward or back. Also, I must note that the view will not always start out as over the shoulder. For instance, when your are already looking upwards and you see something of interest, you can twist the controller and zoom in without having the camera first restart behind Link. NOTE: The zoom feature is pretty limited, but the purpose for it is to allow you to target things that in past Zelda's may have been un-targetable. For example, while looking around, you see something hanging from a tree way above you. You zoom in enough to finally lock-on. Once locked-on you fire an arrow. Turns out its a chest full of rupees!
-- "A" button -- Context Sensitive. Unlike IceCold, it will handle all context sensitive situations. For example, if you have to jam a gear with a small metal beam, you first press "A" (similar to RE4) to open the view and allow direct revmote activity, then you use the revmote to pick up the beam with "B", finally, you simulate the action.
-- "B" trigger -- Whips out or sheathes sword. Once unsheathed, the revmote will handle all attacks with an assortment of pre-configured wrist flicks to control Link's attacks. Also, the camera will then switch to automatic. The revmote will also mimmick arm movements. So, if you'd like to create your own attacks you can. For example, large arm swings and stabs will actually be represented in the game. If you'd rather save your energy, you can always fall back onto the pre-programmed wrist flicks, or you can use both. This will come in handy when you need to deflect arrows and such with your sword. Remember, this is Link before he has locked-on to anything.
-- D-pad -- This will handle Link's items. Once an item is selected, depending on what item it is, you may have full control over it.  Having full control over an item will switch the camera to automatic. An example of an item that you can control is a lantern, jar, butterfly net, deku stick, or lasso. Items you don't have complete control over are a bow, boomerang, and hookshot. Don't get confused, if you have your bow out, you can "pull the arrow back", although you won't want to in many situations. You'll most likely want to fire quickly. To do so, you hold the same direction on the D-pad that selected the bow, then press "B" button. So it's somewhat of a combo move to fire. The reason for doing this is to allow you the ability to pull back the arrow if you'd like. To do that, you hold the bow button then pull back the controller to fire, then press "B" to release. This will allow you to put exactly how much power you may want in an arrow, be it a really strong arrow or a weak arrow. While holding your bow, the camera will act normally as if your running with nothing in your hand. As soon as you hold down the bow button, the camera will swoop to over-shoulder view and the Revmote will aim your bow. You can still run even while aiming.
The boomerang works in the same way. You hold the boomerang button to aim with your revmote. You can then lock-on to multiple targets by pressing Z1. To fire, you can either press the "B" button, or quickly flick your wrist. The hookshot, you simply hold the button and press "B" to fire.
Some items, such as the deku stick, will allow you complete control. So it will be very easy to light the stick in a fire, even from a fire place. You can then wave the stick to signal someone, or reach up high to light something, or maybe even light a specific candle (similar to E.Darkness). Holding the deku stick button, will allow you to chuck it. You first hold the deku stick button, draw back, then as your making the "chucking" motion, you release the deku stick button.
The lasso would work in the same way. You hold the lasso button, twirl the revmote in a circle, then release the button as you perform the "chucking" motion.
-- Z1 -- Lock-on / Return view to behind Link.
-- Z2 -- Link's Sheild. Once this button is held, you can control Link's shield anyway you like, and even thrust it forward as an attack. You can defend every part humanly possible, so even above your head.


Geez....I assure you the rest won't be as long.....



Link Attacking
----------------------

Attack mode is triggered by locking-on to something (Z1). The camera is behind Link at this point. The sword is controlled by Revmote. All items are controlled the same way.
-- "A" button -- Jump / Jump attack/ downward thrust (when enemy is down)
-- "B" button -- Unsheaths / sheaths sword (tap "B") / Roll (while moving) / charge spin-attack (hold "B")
-- Z2 -- Sheild

This will allow you to pull off complex moves such as, slice,


Link on Horse-back
-----------------------

In general, it's basically the same as "Link on foot."

-- Analog stick -- controls Link's movement.
-- REVmote -- the same as "Link on foot." You can have partial control of the camera at all times, but you can have full control with just a twist of the controller. Camera returns to automatic when sword is unsheathed.
-- D-pad -- All items are controlled in the same fashion, however they feature minor changes. For instance, when aiming your bow while on your horse, the view will be over the shoulder. The Revmote will aim, and as you aim from left to right, the camera will swivel from left/ over Link's left shoulder / over Link's right shoulder / right. This will allow you to precisely aim in all directions except behind you. You still have control of the horse, but it will automatically do whatever action it was doing before you started aiming (so if it was standing still, it will continue to stand still).
-- "B" button -- Unsheaths / sheaths sword. The REVmote will control the sword exactly the same as "Link on foot" with quick flicks attacking. However, the position of the revmote will dictate if your attacking to the left or right of the horse. You still have the possibility of creating your own attacks. For example, you can hold out your sword exactly the same way Link held it during the bridge battle against the boss. Also, you can hold your sword above your head as you charge into battle.
-- "A" button -- Speed up
-- Z1 -- Lock-on / Puts camera behind Link. You can't Lock-on to moving targets though.
-- Z2 -- Sheild

Well that's it....oh ya...the spin attack. To preform, you hold the "B" button down. The beauty of the REV is that it will allow you to charge the spin-attack as you are attacking normally. You can even run/strafe as you normally. To release the spin-attack, you release the "B" button. So you can combine moves such as, horizontal slash, stab, spin-attack, roll, downward thrust.

In my next post I show exactly how this will Revolutionize Zelda in many ways besides the obvious ones.....


"Hey....

I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

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Offline IceCold

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RE:What will you be able to do in Zelda REV?
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2005, 07:33:19 PM »
I really like your camera control ideas for the NRC - they're brilliant. What you described would be completely intuitive and it would help the gameplay so much more. One questoin, though. In "Up C" mode, is there a way to lock the camera? Because it would be nice to run around and control the camera so extensively, but what if you want to lock it in one specific place? When you use the C-Stick, you set the angle and then it stays there. With this setup, I didn't see a way to keep it in once position.

Also..

Quote

Originally posted by: Requiem
-- D-padDon't get confused, if you have your bow out, you can "pull the arrow back", although you won't want to in many situations. You'll most likely want to fire quickly. To do so, you hold the same direction on the D-pad that selected the bow, then press "B" button. So it's somewhat of a combo move to fire. The reason for doing this is to allow you the ability to pull back the arrow if you'd like. To do that, you hold the bow button then pull back the controller to fire, then press "B" to release.
But that brings up the whole debate about whether these controls actually help the game or if they are just there to make it different but don't really improve the system. The example you gave was that instead of just shooting the arrow (which you still incorporate), you would pull back the controller and press B to fire it. You even said yourself that you won't want to pull it back in many situations. A

So how does the motion sensitivity in this case actually help? Sure, you can specify how hard you want to pull the arrow back, but you could do that just as easily with a normal button depending on how long you press the button. And also, it's quicker the traditional way, and many times in Zelda games you need a quick bow.. Nintendo needs to show that the NRC is THE way to control the game, and once you use it, traditional methods won't even be able to hold a candle to it.
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Offline Requiem

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RE:What will you be able to do in Zelda REV?
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2005, 09:36:48 PM »
Quote

I really like your camera control ideas for the NRC - they're brilliant. What you described would be completely intuitive and it would help the gameplay so much more. One questoin, though. In "Up C" mode, is there a way to lock the camera? Because it would be nice to run around and control the camera so extensively, but what if you want to lock it in one specific place? When you use the C-Stick, you set the angle and then it stays there. With this setup, I didn't see a way to keep it in once position.


No, I'm afraid there isn't. However, maybe a mechanic could be added to lock the camera where ever you decide to twist the NRC upright (undoing your manual control). Would that solve the problem?

Quote

But that brings up the whole debate about whether these controls actually help the game or if they are just there to make it different but don't really improve the system. The example you gave was that instead of just shooting the arrow (which you still incorporate), you would pull back the controller and press B to fire it. You even said yourself that you won't want to pull it back in many situations.


I see your point. The NRC has the ability to make gameplay more realistic; however, some gameplay we deem as fun would be incredibly hard, and thus not fun, if we had to perform those actions realistically. The NRC shouldn't make anything harder, even if that means not using the NRC at all. They should use it when it is best to use it, and only then. That is the only way you can better the product as a whole.

You see, I don't think Nintendo is out to replace EVERY aspect of a game. If they are, they would be stuffing NRC where NRC doesn't belong. Still, the bow and arrow will benefit from the NRC simply because you can aim faster and more accurately. Honestly, I see that as a worthwhile improvement.

I could do without the "pull back the arrow" mechanic until you can actually hold the bow with your other hand to aim. I added it simply because there may be some puzzles or challenges that require you to shoot a strong or weak bow. Also, imagine winning a prize similar to the Golden Scale that allows you to shoot father than before and maybe throw certian materials.

Now, I want to remind you that this problem you pointed out only comes about with items that cannot be translated well to the NRC. Even with those items being midly improved The NRC will revolutionize Zelda to the point where you will be satisfied with the change.
"Hey....

I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

Qoute of the Summer