Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[MrPhishfood]

From what I've heard, videogame systems are banned in China, so whats the point of having them manufactured there?

Nintendo uses Foxconn (y'know the iPhone makers) to manufacture their stuff. I would think Foxconn has a pretty good track record for efficiency when it comes to mass producing complicated hardware. Though video game systems are banned in China I don't think its illegal to make them, just to sell them.

Still, its not strictly enforced and you can still buy them in grey markets. I remember there was a picture on Kotaku where one of China's Olympic gold medalists was photographed at one of these markets looking at PS3s.

[tendoboy1984]

But the Japanese are perfectly capable of manufacturing their own products, just like how American workers are perfectly capable of making our own cars.

It's kind of pointless to have game systems made in China when they're banned from sale there.

[NWR_insanolord]

No it's not. It's much, much cheaper to manufacture them in China than to do so in America or Japan. Whether or not they can be sold in China is irrelevant to that decision.

[Adrock]

But the Japanese are perfectly capable of manufacturing their own products, just like how American workers are perfectly capable of making our own cars.

Capable in that they have hands and motor skills, but like insano said, it's much cheaper to manufacture in China than pretty much everywhere. If that wasn't true, no company would use Foxconn. The federal minimum wage in the U.S. of A. is what, $7.25 per hour? In China, they're paying workers in shiny beads.

[tendoboy1984]

No it's not. It's much, much cheaper to manufacture them in China than to do so in America or Japan. Whether or not they can be sold in China is irrelevant to that decision.

Yet more and more companies (domestic and foreign) are opening manufacturing plants in America. Granted it's for automobiles, but it's still the same concept.

Companies like Intel and IBM also manufacturer their chips in America.

The problems with outsourcing to China outweigh the benefits. Quality control, worker unrest, poor labor conditions, stress from being overworked and underpaid, etc. Is that really worth saving some money in labor and manufacturing costs? Where are the labor laws?

[Adrock]

Is that really worth saving some money in labor and manufacturing costs?

From a human rights perspective, no.

From a business perspective, yes. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's hard to argue with that reality. Unless it becomes a PR snafu, I wouldn't expect most companies to look into or be concerned with obscenely low wages and poor working conditions.

[Ceric]

No it's not. It's much, much cheaper to manufacture them in China than to do so in America or Japan. Whether or not they can be sold in China is irrelevant to that decision.

Yet more and more companies (domestic and foreign) are opening manufacturing plants in America. Granted it's for automobiles, but it's still the same concept.

Companies like Intel and IBM also manufacturer their chips in America.

The problems with outsourcing to China outweigh the benefits. Quality control, worker unrest, poor labor conditions, stress from being overworked and underpaid, etc. Is that really worth saving some money in labor and manufacturing costs? Where are the labor laws?

United States also has a better infrastructure for Automotive Manufacturing then say iPhones.  Another thing is Shipping Cost.  To ship 100,000 Wii U for example is chump change compared to shipping 100,000 Fords.  Plus the hit you take if you have a defect rate of say 10% on the WiiU would be vastly less then on the Fords.

[NWR_insanolord]

No it's not. It's much, much cheaper to manufacture them in China than to do so in America or Japan. Whether or not they can be sold in China is irrelevant to that decision.

Yet more and more companies (domestic and foreign) are opening manufacturing plants in America. Granted it's for automobiles, but it's still the same concept.

Game consoles aren't automobiles. Cars sell for upwards of $10,000, and the labor cost of the people who assemble them isn't as much of a factor at that point. Game consoles sell for ~$300-400, and manufacturing them in a country with as high of a standard of living as the United States or Japan would have a significant effect on what they could sell the system for.

The problems with outsourcing to China outweigh the benefits. Quality control, worker unrest, poor labor conditions, stress from being overworked and underpaid, etc. Is that really worth saving some money in labor and manufacturing costs? Where are the labor laws?

Quality control isn't really a problem. Foxconn is very good at what it does, and basically every tech product, with very few exceptions, is manufactured in China, so I don't know what you're basing that on. At least part of the pay difference is in the cost of living; it's a lot cheaper to get by in China than it is in the United States, in terms of straight currency conversions. As for labor laws, you're never going to see them in China, because their whole economy is built around attracting outside businesses to come in and have things manufactured there.

[nickmitch]

. . .worker unrest, poor labor conditions, stress from being overworked and underpaid, etc.

These are things you only have to deal with if there are labor unions.

[NWR_insanolord]

. . .worker unrest, poor labor conditions, stress from being overworked and underpaid, etc.

These are things you only have to deal with if there are labor unions.

Which they're starting to see signs of, and are doing their damnedest to try to stamp out.

[Spak-Spang]

Actually, I wonder if we still actually need labor unions.  The work force has evolved to realize that you have better employee loyalty, satisfaction, public image and more for treating employees better and providing them with competitive wages. 

I want business to bring production jobs back to their home countries, but until the cost of production in the home country is cheaper than the labor wages, taxes, transportation costs of materials and final products and such...then it will never happen. 

Now, as for Nintendo's manufacturing partners  Nintendo has always had a high quality standard for final products, and Nintendo is not going to compromise that with whomever they partner with.  So I am sure we will get products quickly and at a production speed for launch.

[NWR_insanolord]

Actually, I wonder if we still actually need labor unions.  The work force has evolved to realize that you have better employee loyalty, satisfaction, public image and more for treating employees better and providing them with competitive wages.

If by "evolved" you mean "been forced by federal regulations", then sure. We only got to that point because of labor unions, which is a big part of the reason China isn't there yet.

[Spak-Spang]

Well, actually...no I mean evolved...because Federal Regulations started the transfer and labor unions WERE needed to begin and implement the change. 

However, many (not all) business found productive actually increased when management started treating employees as human beings.  Now many (not all) businesses have standard benefits and wages above and beyond that of federal regulations.  So businesses have obviously learned a lesson. 

Does this mean I feel federal regulation is bad, or we to pull it back.  Hell no.  But, it does mean that perhaps labor unions need to take more of a backseat and be waiting just in case businesses backslide...but stop pushing for more and more that is killing the economy...

That said...this is too political so we should probably drop it. 

[Ceric]

In older businesses sure.  I work Software Development.  It can be downright abusive in this field.  Most people who do this job like to program and we tend to get paid relatively well, relatively because its almost always salary so your actual pay in abusive companies is much lower.  What I found over the year though is unless you work for a Google or Microsoft your treated much like a second tier citizen in the company even if the company couldn't survive without what you do.  System Administer also have lots of the same issues.

Companies will always try to charge what the market will be bear.  Same with labor. They will pay you the least they can get away with in Benefits and actual pay.  That is Capitalism.

[Caterkiller]

Wii U 19x more powerful than PS3 say's some Nintendo rep.

Nintendo representatives on the day informed me that it was “19 times more powerful than PS3”.  Having spent a decent amount of time with the launch software I doubt these claims and would take it with a grain of salt, as the games on show at the expo appeared directly comparable to Xbox360 and PS3 titles and certainly no better.  Having said that, the games are launch titles and the software can only improve in scope, gameplay and visual flair as developers get to grips with the hardware.

totalrevue.com/nintendo-wiiu-preview/

First off BS multipliers are just that, BS. I certainly don't believe it but if it eventually becomes the case, then so be it. Still what does 19 times more powerful than PS3 even mean?

For you people who have to get down on everything just keep in mind that there was no way these current gen games that have been worked on for other systems for years were ever going to look significantly better on the Wii U.

A year or two from now we'll see whats up.

[noname2200]

Well, actually...no I mean evolved...because Federal Regulations started the transfer and labor unions WERE needed to begin and implement the change. 

However, many (not all) business found productive actually increased when management started treating employees as human beings.  Now many (not all) businesses have standard benefits and wages above and beyond that of federal regulations.  So businesses have obviously learned a lesson. 

I have less faith than you do. But you're right: this conversation is drifting into political territory. So to fix that:

I don't think Nintendo's going to get too aggressive with the expanding economies of the world, at least not with the Wii U. I think the reason Sony has been able to is that they outright own factories and didn't want them going idle: it was partly the product of a solution in search of a problem. Nintendo doesn't own any manufacturing places, so if it sees a decline in demand for its hardware it feels less pressure to find a new outlet to dump product on.

That said, I recall some Reggie comments that indicates they'll at least start exploring the possibilities with the Wii. Which is not a terrible idea, in my opinion, even if it has roughly zero effect on me in the short term.

[noname2200]

Still what does 19 times more powerful than PS3 even mean?

The cutscenes will be 19 times more impactful than those in FF XIII/MGS 4/ Heavy Rain.

[Caterkiller]

Continuing on with the Wii U being more powerful than PS360.

http://www.videogamer.com/wiiu/trine_2/news/wii_u_graphics_would_need_to_be_scaled_back_on_xbox_360_and_ps3.html

Trine 2 developer says graphics would have to be scaled down for PS3 and 360.

Basically that does require... well, not huge amounts more graphics processing power, but still considerable. If we would publish that on the other consoles, then I believe that there would be some small downscaling of what it is right now."

http://seattletimes.com/html/technologybrierdudleysblog/2019376473_qa_nintendo_boss_on_wii_u_appl.html

Reggie explains Wii U will fend off future competition.

[marty]

http://seattletimes.com/html/technologybrierdudleysblog/2019376473_qa_nintendo_boss_on_wii_u_appl.html

Reggie explains Wii U will fend off future competition.

Pro athletes do a better job explaining how they will win championships than reggie does answering a question about how the Wii U will fend off competition.  Unless the Wii U takes off like the Wii, which can't and won't happen, I don't see Reggie sticking around for another generation.

[MrPhishfood]

Pro athletes do a better job explaining how they will win championships than reggie does answering a question about how the Wii U will fend off competition.  Unless the Wii U takes off like the Wii, which can't and won't happen, I don't see Reggie sticking around for another generation.

If you had bothered to read. Its actually an interview of 30+ questions. He does a pretty good job of answering them until he gets asked a hypothetical question about quantities that are still unknown.

[marty]

Pro athletes do a better job explaining how they will win championships than reggie does answering a question about how the Wii U will fend off competition.  Unless the Wii U takes off like the Wii, which can't and won't happen, I don't see Reggie sticking around for another generation.

If you had bothered to read. Its actually an interview of 30+ questions. He does a pretty good job of answering them until he gets asked a hypothetical question about quantities that are still unknown.

I read the whole thing.  I pointed out that he gave a non-answer to a specific question that comes up a lot here.  The rest of the answers are pretty fluffy, too.  Continue making dumb assumptions about what I read and attributing your opinion to it, if you must, but it's not necessary.

[Adrock]

Reggie gave a standard answer to a pointless question. "How you plan on fending off things that no one knows anything about?" The successors to PS3 and 360 don't officially exist yet. I don't know how else he was expected to answer that question.

The rest of the answers were PR fluff, but I give him a pass on that one.

[marty]

Reggie gave a standard answer to a pointless question. "How you plan on fending off things that no one knows anything about?" The successors to PS3 and 360 don't officially exist yet. I don't know how else he was expected to answer that question.

The rest of the answers were PR fluff, but I give him a pass on that one.

Yes, now that you've explained that, it does seem that Reggie didn't explain how the Wii U will fend off future competitors...

[MrPhishfood]

I would be sorry for making assumptions if you had not worded yourself poorly.

Pro athletes do a better job explaining how they will win championships than reggie does answering a question about how the Wii U will fend off competition.

Because Reggie answered a series of questions in an interview. So yes I misinterpreted what you really meant because you didn't interpret what you really meant.

[marty]

I would be sorry for making assumptions if you had not worded yourself poorly.

Pro athletes do a better job explaining how they will win championships than reggie does answering a question about how the Wii U will fend off competition.

Because Reggie answered a series of questions in an interview. So yes I misinterpreted what you really meant because you didn't interpret what you really meant.

reggie answered ONE question about the Wii U and future competitors.  I responded with an opinion about that ONE question.  Get over it.