Topic: Accidental Racism

[lumbersmith]

In my first year of JPN study, I accidently used the word Jap as an abbreviation for Japanese to my teacher, Hirofumi Nagaoka.  He immediately let me know that he didn't want me saying that and told me to use JPN in writing if I ever needed to abbreviate it.  Just like all ethnic slurs, there're some people who just don't give a damn and some people who do.  The point of watching what you say is that everyone reacts differently and you don't want to hurt or offend someone.  I wouldn't walk up to a JPN tourist and call him Jap, but I have a friend who's quarter JPN that I refer to as Jap, Jappy Jap, etc. constantly and it doesn't bother him, and people call me honkey, white bread, cracker, etc. and it doesn't ruffle my feathers, either.

That being said, I think all ethnic terms are just words and it's actually the intent behind the words that offends or doesn't.  Online it's very hard to guess intent sometimes, and even in person it can be difficult.  If you wonder if you can refer to someone's ethnicity as something, ask them.  Everyone's different.  Some people prefer White, some people prefer Caucasion, some people prefer North American White, some people prefer (insert state name, ie Alaskan) White.  You could argue that's just splitting hairs, but the point is to avoid offending or hurting people.

[BeautifulShy]

The thing is,EasyCure, is that I haven't really learned any espanol.My father was from Mexico while my mom was born in Oregon.I left my dad when I was 4 years old when we were in Alabama.

[Pale]

Let me pose a question to all of you arguing against the validity of this blog post...

Let me take your side for a second and assume that very few people are actually offended when someone abbreviates Japanese as "Jap".  Let's throw a number on there.  Say that 1 out of every 100 Japanese people are offended and become depressed when they are called that.

Is it really too much of a sacrifice to make to start typing Jp instead of Jap just to make that single person's day a little better?

[Stogi]

I don't think anyone is arguing that. We feel that while the post is valid, it is not as offensive as it once was.

[oohhboy]

Let me pose a question to all of you arguing against the validity of this blog post...

Let me take your side for a second and assume that very few people are actually offended when someone abbreviates Japanese as "Jap".  Let's throw a number on there.  Say that 1 out of every 100 Japanese people are offended and become depressed when they are called that.

Is it really too much of a sacrifice to make to start typing Jp instead of Jap just to make that single person's day a little better?

People like that have got bigger personal issues if they are really going to kick up that kind of fuss over a 3 letter word.

I rather be in favor of converting the word in to more general use by using it in either neutral or positive context. Otherwise it would be a waste of a good and valid abbreviation.

Words like gay for example, in the past meant happy. Now that we have constantly used it in a constant and negative way, it has become a slur. But there is no reason as to why that can't work the other way around. Jap is no way as loaded as Gay is now days, so the progress to turn this word around had already began a far while back. It also helps that there were far stronger slurs at the time.

[BranDonk Kong]

The Oxford dictionary is outdated, especially when apparently the majority of Japan is apathetic to the term. It was an abbreviation that was *turned into* a derogatory term during a war, a war against the Japanese. I don't consider it any different than saying Brit, or Jew (when referring to an actual Jew at least). I don't think "Jap" and "Chink" are on the same level either. This seems counter-effective to me, actually. By not using the word, we're making it into a racial slur.

[Pale]

Ok, I've got nothing.

[famicomplicated]

The word "Jap" is racist.

I have heard this from my Japanese friends and my Japanese-American friends.

They do not like it.

If you think it isn't wrong to say it, think about it: would you say it TO a Japanese person? To their face? (rare examples excluded, like 'lumbersmith')

It sounds wrong, because it IS wrong.

Also, I must say that I didn't write this to sound off against the NWR forum-goers.
I rarely, if ever, see people on here say it - something that reflects the nature of our boards for sure.

I hope people who used to say it read this say "oh, fair enough, I didn't know that, but I see the point" and spread the word to other forums.

What I didn't expect to see was people actually defending the use of the word!

Let's not argue about "how racist" or "how offensive" this word is, when or when not to say it or how "bad" it is compared to other words - these are all irrelevant points, if it's offensive to a certain group of people, we should strive to not say it, right?

[GoldenPhoenix]

It sounds wrong, because it IS wrong.

Once again this is a cultural thing. The word itself isn't wrong but the connotations behind it have made it wrong. As I showed in my link there are Japanese publications that use the term. In regards to whether or not I would use it personally? No I wouldn't but with that said even though I don't think the terms "white" or "black" is bad I wouldn't call an African-American "black" if I was talking to them if, it wouldn't be proper. Not to mention there is a big difference between the way people type things and what they actually say.

BTW did you know that the term also is a slur against Jewish people? Jewish-American princess, and is considered in an insult there as well. 

Also I think it is extremely unfair that you characterize people as "defending" the use of the term. What I've seen here (for the most part) is explaining why people need to grow beyond getting offended by every term used. When you start a socially charged blog like this, don't expect everyone to agree with everything you said.  Also you cannot go through your life and fear that every term you use will be construed as offensive by someone, because frankly it is impossible. People can be very fickle and like I said what I find most funny about racial offense is more times then not it is someone from another minority who is doing the complaining.

So in conclusion I do not find "Jap." as written on forums to in the same category as saying it to someone's face. It is a different medium of communication and it is quite clear the majority of the time that the person is just being lazy and shortens Japanese. It is a unique problem, considering most other racial slurs are NOT shortened terms of an ethnicity (or if they are, an extra letter or two is put in front of it). So it should be treated as such when it comes to writing, and should be read in context because it is such a flexible term that doesn't have a specialized meaning.

[NWR_Lindy]

The context of WWII is still with us today.  I mean, it's still a relevant context.  We aren't talking about the big band era here.  We're talking about a war that still effects policy and feelings.  Why do you think swastikas are outlawed in Germany?  Because the context of WWII was so powerful that that symbol is still meaningful.  So is the word "Jap" to a lot of people that lived through that.  It doesn't get as much play in the West, that's for sure, but in the East I'm sure it's still a big no-no.

[GoldenPhoenix]

So is the word "Jap" to a lot of people that lived through that.  It doesn't get as much play in the West, that's for sure, but in the East I'm sure it's still a big no-no.

From what I understand you would be wrong, there have supposedly been studies in Japan where they really don't care that much about it. And that doesn't even address the fact that when it is typed in a message board that more often then not it is because the person is too lazy to write "Japanese", they aren't going out of their way to use it, it is just that they aren't going out of their way to write the full word. Racial slurs have context and BOTH sides should be aware of that, instead of taking offense at something that wasn't intended that way, especially when a term is a lazy person's way of sometimes writing Japanese in message boards (it would be different though if it was an official publication). I've seen it written as Jap. as well does that make it just as racially charged? Because it is quite clear in that context it is an abbreviation as denoted by the period.

[OptimusP]

The context of WWII is still with us today.  I mean, it's still a relevant context.  We aren't talking about the big band era here.  We're talking about a war that still effects policy and feelings.  Why do you think swastikas are outlawed in Germany?  Because the context of WWII was so powerful that that symbol is still meaningful.  So is the word "Jap" to a lot of people that lived through that.  It doesn't get as much play in the West, that's for sure, but in the East I'm sure it's still a big no-no.

Irrelevant argument, the French Revolution, the American War of Independence or the Napoleonic wars also still have effects on policy to this day. And even bigger then WWII (some European countries still use the Code Napoleon in their city-policy and such, the American constitution has been unaltered to this day). But I don't think the negative slurs then are still being seen as insults now.
Sure don't use the word Jap to a actual japanese you just met, but really, using it in casual talking with friends, it's completely harmless. And there's nothing wrong with being courteous about mentioning "we don't use the word as an insult anymore, it's just a handy abbreviation". Hell, using the word in neutral or even positive connotations is a sign of social acceptance.
Also comparing it to putting other ethnics in the back of the bus is just wrong. That was a forced undemocratic practice, using Jap actually has a neutral function of abbreviation. It's more like file-sharing programs, yeah sure it can do harm (by supporting piracy) if used in that intent but it also has a major neutral and positive function if used as it was meant to be used (sharing free- and shareware).

So in a democratic rational sense, the use of the word jap is just an handy abbrevation as long as that is the intended use. Unless you're a WWII-veteran, that's probably the only use for it. If you get mentioned by a Japanese person that the word is offensive to them, mentioning the neutral function and use should be enough to keep using it as such. Trying to prohibit the neutral use is actually violating the right of free speech in a way.

Now offcourse, you do have a social cultural aspect on the other side and should that be ignored? It is offcourse the emotional irrational laden side and I always believe that if the intent is well explained (the neutral function of abbreviation) that should be that. If you get mad over me then using it in that function, the problem is mostly in your own camp. All that social cultural crap is a layer of varnish anyway that gets reapplied by every passing generation. What type of varnish depends on what functions we need fullfilled by our social cultural behavior.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Just say "those casual gamers"

[Nick DiMola]

I'm confused, someone says, "Hey, this term is construed as a racial slur by some people," and we're arguing that they are wrong?

I accept that the term may be used as a slur and would prefer not to offend people. I don't think anyone is arguing that people might use the abbreviation and not know what it means, of course that is going to happen, I think the point is that you should be cognizant of the term and know not to use it because some people might take offense. Why is this so complicated?

[NovaQ]

...Because it's the Internet? I really don't know, either.

[oohhboy]

I hope people who used to say it read this say "oh, fair enough, I didn't know that, but I see the point" and spread the word to other forums.

What I didn't expect to see was people actually defending the use of the word!

Let's not argue about "how racist" or "how offensive" this word is, when or when not to say it or how "bad" it is compared to other words - these are all irrelevant points, if it's offensive to a certain group of people, we should strive to not say it, right?

My good man, this is NWR, not GamesFAQ. If you were looking for an easy win in an attempt to pacify some thing you feel or to confirm a world view, you have come to the wrong place. This place has never been a circle jerk of agreement and I hope it never becomes one. Neither is anything black and white here. It's just not shades of grey but colors of the rainbow.

You came here advocating censorship. I and many others offered potential long term solutions. Maybe censorship is right when it comes to things that are truly sensitive like Nazi symbols and slogan in Germany. However it is a horribly blunt instrument and it doesn't resolve the underlying issue by itself. It is useful as part of a tool box. It's function is to buy time so maybe in the future such words and symbols can be used to educate us the evils it promoted so that we may forgive but not forget our past.

So don't be mistaken that we defend racism as you implied. There is no room for it in the world and I would like to see it gone. But banning words is not how one goes about.

[Plugabugz]

I think any term, (im being as wide ranging and broad as possible) can be considered offensive if the person on the receiving end considers it to be.

But at the same time i'm leaning into being as politically correct, so i'll say no more here and go to the funhouse for the rest.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

The context of WWII is still with us today.  I mean, it's still a relevant context.  We aren't talking about the big band era here.  We're talking about a war that still effects policy and feelings.  Why do you think swastikas are outlawed in Germany?  Because the context of WWII was so powerful that that symbol is still meaningful.  So is the word "Jap" to a lot of people that lived through that.  It doesn't get as much play in the West, that's for sure, but in the East I'm sure it's still a big no-no.

Irrelevant argument, the French Revolution, the American War of Independence or the Napoleonic wars also still have effects on policy to this day. And even bigger then WWII (some European countries still use the Code Napoleon in their city-policy and such, the American constitution has been unaltered to this day). But I don't think the negative slurs then are still being seen as insults now.

I think if you said this to one of my Okinawan coworkers or friends, they would have a different perspective. Or I guess you could just stroll around one of our many American bases here, eat some spam, go to A&W.... An "if you don't like it, it's your problem" attitude on this subject isn't all that productive.

Also, I have to wonder if the term is more offensive to Japanese-Americans than Japanese citizens....Just a hunch with no proof to back it up, but it seems like that would add another layer on it, implying they are not American (which in fact was what they were accused of). I mean, how often did Japanese citizens hear the term "Jap" in a negative connotation compared to a Japanese-American?

[Jonnyboy117]

I left my dad when I was 4 years old when we were in Alabama.

Did you grow up there?

[Morari]

User was warned for this post. ~Pale

[MegaByte]

Also, I have to wonder if the term is more offensive to Japanese-Americans than Japanese citizens....Just a hunch with no proof to back it up, but it seems like that would add another layer on it, implying they are not American (which in fact was what they were accused of). I mean, how often did Japanese citizens hear the term "Jap" in a negative connotation compared to a Japanese-American?

I suspect this could be true.  My grandmother spent time in an internment camp, one of the US/Canada's worst racist moments, yet probably also one of the least remembered.  The rural location where I grew up was full of racist people that I had to deal with, but I believe it was more out of ignorance than true malice.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Also, I have to wonder if the term is more offensive to Japanese-Americans than Japanese citizens....Just a hunch with no proof to back it up, but it seems like that would add another layer on it, implying they are not American (which in fact was what they were accused of). I mean, how often did Japanese citizens hear the term "Jap" in a negative connotation compared to a Japanese-American?

I suspect this could be true.  My grandmother spent time in an internment camp, one of the US/Canada's worst racist moments, yet probably also one of the least remembered.  The rural location where I grew up was full of racist people that I had to deal with, but I believe it was more out of ignorance than true malice.

Actually from what I understand it does have more meaning for Japanese-Americans then those who live in Japan.

I accept that the term may be used as a slur and would prefer not to offend people. I don't think anyone is arguing that people might use the abbreviation and not know what it means, of course that is going to happen, I think the point is that you should be cognizant of the term and know not to use it because some people might take offense. Why is this so complicated?

Like I said though, the term is unique in that all it is, is a shortened way of saying Japanese, so it is also the responsibility of those who may take offense of it to also read what the context is, especially in the internet age where everything is shortened.

[Pale]

I think everyone is making good points as to how people can understand the context and learn to be less offended by it.

My beef, as James C. mentions in his blog post, is that it isn't that hard to change your habits when it comes to typing it. I'm pretty appalled that some just can't be bothered to do something so insanely simple.

[NWR_Lindy]

I think the term would have the most meaning to those that were directly affected by it.  Maybe not the Japanese within Japan, but definitely Japanese-Americans, or Japanese POWs.

And to compare the French Revolution, Napoleonic Wars, and American War of Independence to WWII in terms of cultural relevance is absurd.  We're still chasing war criminals from WWII for crying out loud...the effects are still being felt.  Culturally, all of those other wars now have negligible impact besides their effect on laws, which we aren't even talking about in this discussion.  It's not like people are using slang terms against an ethnic group that were used during the Napoleonic Wars.  Not unless you have a time machine.

[Stogi]

*snacks on popcorn*

This is one of the better conversations this year. This is a conversation, right?