Author Topic: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?  (Read 14074 times)

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Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2011, 11:39:50 AM »
Just because Nintendo didn't announce that many Wii games at the conference doesn't mean that they didn't the days and weeks after. Just because something doesn't get announced at the conference means that something isn't coming out ever.

As far as the fall goes, if something doesn't get announced at the conference (or tucked away in the press kit), it's not coming out this year. Find me an example from the past three years where that hasn't been true and I'll concede, but I'm nearly positive that's true.

We'll be lucky if we get an interesting Wii game at all in 2012. Well, actually, we will, because Zelda will probably get delayed again. :P
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2011, 12:14:10 PM »
Around E3, I suggested that a better name for WiiU would be "Nintendo[something]" as it promotes the stronger Nintendo brand, much like their portables do. WiiU is a poor choice for more than the way it sounds for both core and casual gamers. Unfortunately, the chances of Nintendo actually changing the name are pretty much at zero percent. We'll see if their strategy works. It's a shame that the name is still a point of contention but I think that says something about how questionable the choice may be. In 2006, "Wii" was just a silly name that was easy to pronounce. Today, it's a brand that, more than simply sounding dumb, tends to turn off core gamers through its association and may confuse casual gamers who don't know what WiiU is. How the tables have turned...

Offline Ceric

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2011, 01:25:18 PM »
Hey at least it makes Vita sound good.
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Offline Enner

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2011, 02:47:53 PM »
Why so negative? I feel like everyone's attacking the Wii U based almost purely on the name when we really won't know anything until a year from now when it comes out.

I suppose my outlook is grim but I didn't intent it to be outright negative. I wanted to go over my thoughts on how brand identity plays into the Wii U. Everybody is saying "it's just a name, it doesn't matter" and I don't agree with that. It may have held true for the Wii, which was a totally new brand with no identity, but this time around the name has an existing identity that can't just be erased. Nintendo wants to get the hardcore gamer back, but they also want to keep their casual audience, and they don't believe they can do the second without the Wii brand. They do think that they can regain lost consumers in spite of the Wii brand. It strikes me as wanting your cake and eating it to.


Is there a storied history of wanting cake and not eating it and eating cake when not wanting it? :p
If we are assuming the lost hardcore audience is so shallow that they would write off the new Wii U system based on the name and/or company, then why not also assume that this shallow audience can be swayed by a really cool game or killer app?
Ew, now I'm realizing how much of an uphill battle that will be for Nintendo. It would be improbable to think that anything will tear people away from their investments in to Xbox Live and Playstation Network. Also, there's still brand loyalty to Xbox and Playstation or otherwise we wouldn't have system wars. Hmm, this is a really tough nut for Nintendo to crack. I don't recall Nintendo ever having any recent success in trying.

Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2011, 05:44:33 PM »
We're still well over a year away from the Wii U's launch.  The fact that Nintendo themselves didn't even have any games ready to show just reaffirms my belief that the system isn't going to be out until Holiday 2012 at the earliest.  Yeah the E3 reveal wasn't that great but the Revolutions reveal at E3 2005 was a million times worse.  And yet a year later at E3 2006 when they unveiled it again as the Wii with actual games, everything turn around.

I suppose my outlook is grim but I didn't intent it to be outright negative. I wanted to go over my thoughts on how brand identity plays into the Wii U. Everybody is saying "it's just a name, it doesn't matter" and I don't agree with that. It may have held true for the Wii, which was a totally new brand with no identity, but this time around the name has an existing identity that can't just be erased. Nintendo wants to get the hardcore gamer back, but they also want to keep their casual audience, and they don't believe they can do the second without the Wii brand. They do think that they can regain lost consumers in spite of the Wii brand. It strikes me as wanting your cake and eating it to.

Nintendo has never had the hardcore market to begin with, so there's nothing to get back.  Of course Microsoft and Sony have never had the hardcore either since their systems are just as casual, except a different type of casual.  Microsoft and Sony's core market are 18-34 male casuals while Nintendo's core market has always been family casual gamers and with the Wii they managed to expand that well beyond their wildest dreams.  This is why nearly everyone of Nintendo's main series has been selling better then ever on the Wii.  Even last fall when everyone was talking about how Wii sales were down, Nintendo's own games did very well.  Kirby Epic Yarn is already one of the most successful Kirby spinoffs ever and Donkey Kong Country Returns is already close to becoming the second best selling Donkey Kong game behind only the first DKC.

This is why it's in Nintendo's best interest to keep the Wii brand going because even at it's worst, it's still doing better then most of their previous consoles did at their best.  Considering the Wii is on track to selling over 100 million consoles by the time the Wii U comes out, even if the Wii U was to only sell to 50% of the Wii's audience, that would still give the system about 50 million consoles sold which is better then the Gamecube, N64 and SNES did.

Now yes, Nintendo definitely wants some of the audience that Microsoft and Sony have and that's why they've made both the 3DS and the Wii U with third party developers in mind because they're hoping improved third party support might help gain some of them.  But for Nintendo themselves, the current Wii audience is what's best for them because 95% of Nintendo's franchises are aimed at everyone in the family and so they appeal to that audience much more then the 18-34 male GTA/Modern Warfare crowd that currently exist on the 360/PS3.
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Offline Bboy

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2011, 09:43:14 PM »
It's an interesting point about the Super Nintendo selling less than half of the Wii's sales. Maybe that's the sort of thing we should expect in terms of success for this thing. Hopefully it would do more than the SNES considering how much bigger games are now, but the SNES in comparison to the NES. The NES was super mainstream and family oriented. The two games my grandma has played are Super Mario Bros. and Wii golf, for example. So, WiiU like the SNES probably won't sell as well, but will be more "hardcore." Which makes me think how the Wii will be remembered by future generations. Will kids growing up with Wii's remember it as fondly as kids who had NES'?


As for marketing it to two different groups, I can't imagine that would be too difficult. You have a white WiiU that you show on Oprah (or whatever is replacing her) and in commercials on Disney Channel. Then, like they are doing for M rated games in Japan with the black boxes, or what they did with Monster Hunter 3, you have a black WiiU and you show it on Spike, Comedy Central, Jimmy Fallon, internet ads, etc.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2011, 11:20:31 AM »
Though for curiousity sake.  How much less actual profit did Nintendo make off the SNES then the Wii when adjusted for inflation and like.  I would not be surprised to find that Nintendo sold, not distributed so pack-ins are out, more full retail games on the SNES then the Wii.

(I also take out  VC and Wiiware games since SNES didn't have that category.  Apple to Orange scenario.)
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2011, 02:37:21 PM »
I think the big question is "can one successfully appeal to both cores and casuals?"  The Wii U is somewhat scattershot and a jack of all trades for a reason.  There is no way it could attract both audiences if it wasn't.  Nintendo talked the talk with the Wii about not alienating core gamers and how they weren't going to just be the casual company.  Things didn't turn out that way but I don't think Nintendo was lying, they just screwed it up.  Their design for the Wii ended up turning away third party support and they themselves were spread too thin between the two groups to keep the core interested.  I remember when the Wii was revealed I figure there was no way Nintendo could please both groups because they only have so many resources.  Where as before they were making EVERY game for the same audience, they now had to target two audiences with the same manpower.  It wasn't going to work and it didn't and we got long droughts all throughout the Wii's life.  If you put a team to work making Wii Music, it means one less core game being made.  That's just reality.

So now Nintendo has made sure that the hardware and controller allows for core game development while at the same time having the nifty screen gimmick for casuals.  This is a requirement if they want to attract both audiences.  They had to provide options and I'm glad they are doing that.

But I fear that the two audiences are not compatible.  Even with the DS Nintendo was upset that it gained an image as a girl's system and they wanted to avoid that with the 3DS.  Forget about the name or the marketing.  The second you start putting in any serious effort into casual titles does it turn off core gamers?  MS has talked about Kinect being for everyone but it sure as **** isn't.  It is totally regarded as a casual focused peripheral.

The problem with making something for "everyone" is that there is no such thing.  "Everyone" means "dumbed down for the lowest common denominator".  To accomodate everyone, you have to make things so generic that no one with any real tastes can form any emotional attachment to it.  Take anything for "everyone" and you'll see a big group of people backlashing against it.  Casuals are the lowest common denominator.  It is very rare to have a hit with them that does not turn off those with more specific tastes.

Offline marty

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2011, 04:33:29 PM »
Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, New Super Mario Bros Wii-- Games that outsell anything on any other system and what does Nintendo do?  nothing.  Nintendo has been pissing in the wind for the last 2 years. 

Offline Ceric

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2011, 04:38:43 PM »
Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, New Super Mario Bros Wii-- Games that outsell anything on any other system and what does Nintendo do?  nothing.  Nintendo has been pissing in the wind for the last 2 years. 
But they Can.  Most companies would love to be where Nintendo is but it makes a company that is in Nintendo's position a little less hungry.
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Offline marty

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2011, 07:24:47 PM »
Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, New Super Mario Bros Wii-- Games that outsell anything on any other system and what does Nintendo do?  nothing.  Nintendo has been pissing in the wind for the last 2 years. 
But they Can.  Most companies would love to be where Nintendo is but it makes a company that is in Nintendo's position a little less hungry.
Agreed.  Nintendo has quite clearly demonstrated that they don't care about their customers and would rather piss in the wind than actually make the games that people want.  That's what the WiiU is all about--pleasing developers so they can just shovel ports rather than actually put some effort into making awesome games for a Nintendo console.  There's a reason that xbox or ps3 don't have any 20 or 30 million+ selling titles on their console--because devs won't or can't make games that have mass market appeal.

Offline Enner

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2011, 01:53:15 AM »
Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, New Super Mario Bros Wii-- Games that outsell anything on any other system and what does Nintendo do?  nothing.  Nintendo has been pissing in the wind for the last 2 years. 
But they Can.  Most companies would love to be where Nintendo is but it makes a company that is in Nintendo's position a little less hungry.
Agreed.  Nintendo has quite clearly demonstrated that they don't care about their customers and would rather piss in the wind than actually make the games that people want.  That's what the WiiU is all about--pleasing developers so they can just shovel ports rather than actually put some effort into making awesome games for a Nintendo console.  There's a reason that xbox or ps3 don't have any 20 or 30 million+ selling titles on their console--because devs won't or can't make games that have mass market appeal.

Doesn't help that Call of Duty sucks up quite a bit of money.
Nintendo cares about its customers. Just not more than themselves; which is understandable. At least, I had fun with Nintendo games last year. It probably helps that I only just got my Wii last year. Still, it is frustrating that Nintendo has always been a profitable and big company but doesn't use that money to make or help make more big games. Instead, the money either goes in to the war chest for safe keeping or in to R&D where small teams do weird and fanciful things, store them, and then do it over again. Or maybe Nintendo doesn't have as much money and people as we imagine it?

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2011, 03:46:07 AM »
Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, New Super Mario Bros Wii-- Games that outsell anything on any other system and what does Nintendo do?  nothing.  Nintendo has been pissing in the wind for the last 2 years. 
But they Can.  Most companies would love to be where Nintendo is but it makes a company that is in Nintendo's position a little less hungry.
Agreed.  Nintendo has quite clearly demonstrated that they don't care about their customers and would rather piss in the wind than actually make the games that people want.  That's what the WiiU is all about--pleasing developers so they can just shovel ports rather than actually put some effort into making awesome games for a Nintendo console.  There's a reason that xbox or ps3 don't have any 20 or 30 million+ selling titles on their console--because devs won't or can't make games that have mass market appeal.

Ports are better than nothing. Developers aren't willing to take chances outside the download arena, and Nintendo can't change that. What they can do is ensure that the third parties give the Wii U the same support as the other consoles. Then the decision is which platform has the best first-party lineup, and Nintendo's in pretty good shape in that scenario.
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Offline marty

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2011, 12:04:37 PM »
Doesn't help that Call of Duty sucks up quite a bit of money.
Nintendo cares about its customers. Just not more than themselves; which is understandable. At least, I had fun with Nintendo games last year. It probably helps that I only just got my Wii last year. Still, it is frustrating that Nintendo has always been a profitable and big company but doesn't use that money to make or help make more big games. Instead, the money either goes in to the war chest for safe keeping or in to R&D where small teams do weird and fanciful things, store them, and then do it over again. Or maybe Nintendo doesn't have as much money and people as we imagine it?
A few years ago (post-wii), Nintendo was a more valuable company than Sony or Honda, I don't know if that's still the case but they've raked in a lot of money.  Maybe they think that not serving the Wii community that made them such a valuable company is a good strategy; I doubt it, though.  I'm guessing people are going to remember that their Wii was the thing they used to stream Netflix rather than something they played their videogames on when the WiiU is launched.  No one ever bought a Wii for Netflix and no one thinks they did.  Maybe if people were still buying games for Wii, this wouldn't be a problem, but that's clearly not the case.


CoD and GTA are the ONLY big games not on Nintendo and even then, they clearly DON'T sell systems the way Wii Sports, Wii Fit, NSMBWii, or Mario Kart Wii did.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2011, 12:15:28 PM »
CoD and GTA are the ONLY big games not on Nintendo and even then, they clearly DON'T sell systems the way Wii Sports, Wii Fit, NSMBWii, or Mario Kart Wii did.

I think Microsoft would beg to differ on that when it comes to Call of Duty.
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Offline marty

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2011, 12:23:39 PM »
Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, New Super Mario Bros Wii-- Games that outsell anything on any other system and what does Nintendo do?  nothing.  Nintendo has been pissing in the wind for the last 2 years. 
But they Can.  Most companies would love to be where Nintendo is but it makes a company that is in Nintendo's position a little less hungry.
Agreed.  Nintendo has quite clearly demonstrated that they don't care about their customers and would rather piss in the wind than actually make the games that people want.  That's what the WiiU is all about--pleasing developers so they can just shovel ports rather than actually put some effort into making awesome games for a Nintendo console.  There's a reason that xbox or ps3 don't have any 20 or 30 million+ selling titles on their console--because devs won't or can't make games that have mass market appeal.

Ports are better than nothing. Developers aren't willing to take chances outside the download arena, and Nintendo can't change that. What they can do is ensure that the third parties give the Wii U the same support as the other consoles. Then the decision is which platform has the best first-party lineup, and Nintendo's in pretty good shape in that scenario.
Nintendo isn't in good shape--it's last big seller came out 2 years ago.  XBox and PS owners aren't going to migrate to the WiiU just because it has the same games as the machines they ALREADY own.  Nintendo has already proven, with the last 2 years of the Wii, that they aren't interested in keeping their costumers.  So who is going to buy the WiiU?

Offline marty

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2011, 01:14:34 PM »
CoD and GTA are the ONLY big games not on Nintendo and even then, they clearly DON'T sell systems the way Wii Sports, Wii Fit, NSMBWii, or Mario Kart Wii did.

I think Microsoft would beg to differ on that when it comes to Call of Duty.
Too bad that half of those systems sold are made by Sony, though.  Not that either company is good at selling videogames or systems the way Nintendo is--by making great games.

Offline Bboy

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2011, 03:05:18 PM »
Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, New Super Mario Bros Wii-- Games that outsell anything on any other system and what does Nintendo do?  nothing.  Nintendo has been pissing in the wind for the last 2 years. 
But they Can.  Most companies would love to be where Nintendo is but it makes a company that is in Nintendo's position a little less hungry.
Agreed.  Nintendo has quite clearly demonstrated that they don't care about their customers and would rather piss in the wind than actually make the games that people want.  That's what the WiiU is all about--pleasing developers so they can just shovel ports rather than actually put some effort into making awesome games for a Nintendo console.  There's a reason that xbox or ps3 don't have any 20 or 30 million+ selling titles on their console--because devs won't or can't make games that have mass market appeal.

Ports are better than nothing. Developers aren't willing to take chances outside the download arena, and Nintendo can't change that. What they can do is ensure that the third parties give the Wii U the same support as the other consoles. Then the decision is which platform has the best first-party lineup, and Nintendo's in pretty good shape in that scenario.
Nintendo isn't in good shape--it's last big seller came out 2 years ago.  XBox and PS owners aren't going to migrate to the WiiU just because it has the same games as the machines they ALREADY own.  Nintendo has already proven, with the last 2 years of the Wii, that they aren't interested in keeping their costumers.  So who is going to buy the WiiU?
Nintendo is in fine shape in terms of first party support compared to the other two companies, it's just that because they don't have big third party releases to space things out, we have great years like last year followed by dead years like this one. I'm not sure what you think came out in 2009 that was the big seller, but Nintendo has plenty of huge sellers, in addition to the decently selling games from last year like Kirby or DK, it's just that Nintendo's huge sellers appeal to a different kind of casual crowd than the other consoles.


That's why this whole idea of "casuals" is so dumb, there have always been casual gamers, it's just that until probably the DS, the casual players were "hardcore" kids or bro-y dudes who would only play the most popular multiplayer games. Honestly, I would much prefer bringing in intelligent, if ignorant, adults, and a new generation of kids as casual gamers than those previously mentioned as long as I keep getting enough games to keep me satisfied. And right now, with as much back log as there is for both DS and Wii, I have more than enough games to play. Way more than enough, I have more games to play than I have the time and money to play. I know that a lot of people consume games faster than me, and it sucks that there are dry spells like this, but honestly, there is far too much whining on the internet for this. I don't understand how people are so "starved for games." I look at Ocarina of Time 3D and say, wow, I'd really like to play that, but you know, I still have Monster Tale to finish, and Galaxy 2, and countless other games, I would be wasting my money. Not to mention that most people complaining about the Wii's drought also own other systems. I'm not apologizing for Nintendo, they could do a better job, but there is no way people complaining actually have no games to play.
 Also, I don't think the idea with the ports is to get people to buy games twice. You have to start somewhere and ports are a quick, cheap, and easy way for devs to get familiar with the system and to sell a game they already made to some new people. And as someone who doesn't own another console, I'll be buying those games for WiiU.

Offline Caterkiller

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2011, 09:29:28 PM »
Quote
So who is going to buy the WiiU?

You and everyone else registered on this forum are going to by the Wii U. As soon as you and all the CoD nuts see that both Mario Kart HD and (possibly enhanced) CoD5 are on this thing people will take notice. And who knows, with all the new control options and no valid excuses anymore you know exclusives will pop up.

I only own a Wii, and yeah this year has been horrible for me, but don't knock last year. Donkey Kong and rest kept me busy all year.
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