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Offline StrikerObi

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Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« on: June 20, 2011, 08:01:26 PM »

The RFN co-creator gives his thoughts on the newest Nintendo console.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/26893

Nintendo unveiled their new home console, Wii U, which will launch at some point in mid-to-late 2012. Initial reactions from the gaming community during E3 2011 seem to be mixed, but the stock market is pretty unified in their view. They don't like it. Nintendo shares dropped 5.7 percent with the announcement, and have fallen another 4.6 percent since then amid fears that the Kyoto game giant will not be able to capture the game market with Wii U (and 3DS) the same way it did with the systems' predecessors. (Editor's Note: Mike originally wrote this shortly after E3. The stock prices have continued to decline, though not as sharply as they did at first.)

Expectations for the new console were surely sky-high, and Nintendo unveiled pretty much exactly what everybody thought they were going to unveil, so what went wrong? I'm guessing the stock drop is two-fold. First off, there's the old adage "buy on the rumor, sell on the news." Every company that is about to announce a hotly anticipated new product sees their stocks rise ahead of the announcement. Almost immediately after the reveal, the market starts to sell. Essentially, everybody buys up stock based on pie-in-the-sky expectations, and once it's announced, there's nothing left to inflate the price of the stock. You might think that a good enough product would prevent this drop, but history has shown that even the best product can't totally stop it. After the announcement of the iPhone 4 on June 7, 2010, Apple's stock took a dive right away, and didn't start rebounding until June 9.

So maybe Nintendo's stock will turn around in the next few days, but I actually doubt it. That's because I think this is a bit more than "buy on the rumor, sell on the news." Investors are skittish about Nintendo for good reason. Wii sales are slumping, and 3DS is not living up to its initial sales expectations. UBS Securities has even downgraded their stock rating from "Buy" to "Neutral." Nintendo needs a way to bounce back, and the market doesn't think Wii U is it.

Nintendo obviously does. Reggie and Iwata spent a lot of time hemming and hawing up on stage about how they are now going after "all gamers" again. They're not abandoning the Wii market, but are rather attempting to keep it secure while at the same time returning to the "hardcore" audience that they've left in the dust these past five years. There are a number of problems with this approach, and I'd like to go over two that I think are the biggest.

Jack of All Trades, Master of None

The Wii U strategy strikes me as extremely scatter-shot. Karl Castaneda brought up a very good point on the recent episode of NWR Newscast we were both on. The first thing you learn in the software business is that you need to find your niche and focus in on it with laser precision. All the best companies do this, even the big ones. When you focus on one area, you'll end up with fewer products, but they will be of higher quality. If you try to please everybody, you'll end up making a bunch of products that are good but not great. This is what I see happening to Nintendo.

History has shown that the first-party leads the way. If the console's manufacturer focuses on making big-budget, AAA titles, then the third parties will follow suit. This is why the Xbox 360 is the system for shooters and racing games. That's what Microsoft initially focused on, and the third parties followed suit. Nintendo has always focused on family-friendly games, including a lot of platformers and with the Wii, mini-game compilations, and the third parties have followed suit. Nintendo's never been known for making the big-budget, western-style games that their competitors make.

The Name Game

We all hate this name, but there's more to it than that. Wii's brand image may have a lot of positive mindshare with its current user base, but it has just as much (if not more) negative mindshare with the rest of the gaming community. By keeping that name front and center, Nintendo is essentially telling consumers that nothing has changed. This is still a Wii, and Wii's brand identity with hardcore gamers is about as bad as it can be.

To an enthusiast that truly cares about the games, that statement might sound like a bit much. But an average consumer is going to hear a brand name and instantly make a host of assumptions based on their prior knowledge of the brand. Based on those assumptions, they will make an initial judgment on whether or not they want to learn more. If they do, they'll likely move past the brand name and on to the system's merits. If they don't, they're going to stop their information search right there, and the sale is lost. This is a very real threat to the Wii U's success.

Nintendo tried to combat this by showing a host of M-rated third-party games at their press conference. But when it came time for them to show off their own ideas, everything looked like a Wii game. This reinforces the existing Wii brand identity. Zelda was the lone exception. That looked good. However, Mario, Metroid, and Zelda couldn't keep Wii relevant to hardcore gamers. Why should we expect them to keep Wii U relevant?

The Solution

The name is important, but a bad name alone isn't going to sink a system. It's certainly going to make it a bit more of an uphill battle, but if Nintendo really can change their ways and break back into the hardcore market, the Wii brand will expand to encompass all gamers. If that happens, the Wii U name will become an afterthought.

If Nintendo wants to fix Wii's poor brand identity with the hardcore audience, they need to have at least one internally developed massive western-style game. They already have Mario, Metroid, and Zelda, but they don't have anything like Uncharted, Halo, or Gears of War. If they can't step up in this department, I don't think they'll successfully expand their audience.

My guess is Retro Studios is working on this title right now. They're Nintendo's only top-tier western developer, and they certainly have the talent to make this game. There's a chance it could be a Metroid game (the series has always been more popular in the west), but I'm personally hoping for something entirely new to help break the mold.

I also think there's a remote chance that this game could come from Silicon Knights. They've worked with Nintendo in the past on Eternal Darkness (and Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes), and they could definitely bring the kind of game Nintendo needs to the table. The question with Silicon Knights is if they can stay focused. The company is now notorious for Too Human, a project that was in development for nearly a decade. It ended up releasing on Xbox 360, and was not well received. Nintendo kept Silicon Knights on track in the past, and I think they'd be wise to court the developer back into their arms.
It's certainly an interesting time for Nintendo, and I'm anxious to see how this new strategy pans out. The company has always had tumultuous relationships with third-parties, and they'll need a real game-changer to bring them as well as the hardcore gamer back into the fold.


Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 08:10:09 PM »
Ban Edit Lock Delete.

Do you paint the same picture for MS who seems to be targeting at least three niches right now with the Xbox 360?

Offline StrikerObi

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2011, 08:15:15 PM »
Actually yes. However I think Microsoft is in a better position here (slightly). Nintendo's existing market is fickle, and has basically stopped playing games. That's why they are trying to get back the traditional gamer. Microsoft is the opposite. They've locked down the traditional gaming market, and are trying to expand into the casual space. The big difference is that while Nintendo's casual market is not buying games, Microsoft's traditional market is. So if Kinect (and motion gaming in general) fails, Microsoft can fall back on that market. But if Nintendo can't successfully reclaim traditional gamers, their casual base won't lend them a soft landing.

Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2011, 08:24:26 PM »
Actually yes. However I think Microsoft is in a better position here (slightly). Nintendo's existing market is fickle, and has basically stopped playing games. That's why they are trying to get back the traditional gamer. Microsoft is the opposite. They've locked down the traditional gaming market, and are trying to expand into the casual space. The big difference is that while Nintendo's casual market is not buying games, Microsoft's traditional market is. So if Kinect (and motion gaming in general) fails, Microsoft can fall back on that market. But if Nintendo can't successfully reclaim traditional gamers, their casual base won't lend them a soft landing.


I keep seeing this mentioned alot but do you have any proof that this is a fact and not just your opinion.
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Offline StrikerObi

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2011, 08:41:23 PM »

Here's an article from the LA Times in November. http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/30/business/la-fi-1130-ct-nintendo-20101130

Wii hardware sales have dropped off a LOT over the last year, they are now at their lowest point ever. It had been the top selling console every month since its launch until a few months ago. Xbox sales were up 34%, PS3 sales up 14%, Wii sales down 24% compared to last year.

There's a quote from a rep at Electronic Arts in which they say (to their investors) that Wii games sales outside of Japan were down 34% and they expect them to keep going down. I'm not sure if they are referring to overall Wii game sales or just EA Wii game sales.


You can see it anecdotally as well. Just go to the store. There are no new games coming out for the Wii, outside of shovelware. Every month a big game is coming out for PS3 and 360, but the amount of major content for Wii is basically non-existant. Even Nintendo only has one big game coming out this year (Zelda).
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 08:43:12 PM by StrikerObi »

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 08:46:57 PM »
Mike pretty much nailed my impressions on the Wii U. It seems like it wants to do EVERYTHING and please EVERYONE, but lacks a clear focus. Instead of me going "Oh my God this is awesome can't wait to play it!", I just went "Uuuuuh....wait, what?". That's why I decided to wait till next year's show in order to form a clear opinion. Nintendo sold us IDEAS, and not all of them weren't cohesive.
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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 08:49:49 PM »
I wonder why Sony's stock didn't fall. Vita price point is nice for the consumer, but Sony is going to be BLEEDING money with that high tech machine

Offline broodwars

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 08:59:13 PM »
I wonder why Sony's stock didn't fall. Vita price point is nice for the consumer, but Sony is going to be BLEEDING money with that high tech machine

It's because Sony came out of E3 looking fairly strong.  Nintendo's looking pretty weak right now with the Wii pretty much dead and the 3DS selling below expectations.  They have a big console coming next year, but so far I'm not seeing any reason to buy it and I doubt I'm the only one.  Meanwhile, Sony shows some software at E3 that's going to sell well, and they formally unveil the Vita at a price point that's extremely competitive with Nintendo's 3DS.  Sony may be bleeding money on the thing, but the Vita's looking like it can potentially cut some serious marketshare away from Nintendo.
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Offline Enner

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2011, 09:01:13 PM »
I guess I'm an odd man for being really excited and not too worried how unfocused and unclear is everything for the Wii U at the moment? Wii U is going to unfamiliar and foggy territory and I'm eager to see where it goes. Perhaps I should be more worried over the prospects of its success?

Offline broodwars

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2011, 09:06:15 PM »
I guess I'm an odd man for being really excited and not too worried how unfocused and unclear is everything for the Wii U at the moment? Wii U is going to unfamiliar and foggy territory and I'm eager to see where it goes.

How is it "foggy and unfamiliar"?  Mechanically, it's just the DS again with one screen on the controller and the other being your TV, and I've already seen how little developers will "innovate" using touchscreens on the DS.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 09:16:59 PM by broodwars »
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2011, 10:17:52 PM »
I guess I'm an odd man for being really excited and not too worried how unfocused and unclear is everything for the Wii U at the moment? Wii U is going to unfamiliar and foggy territory and I'm eager to see where it goes.

How is it "foggy and unfamiliar"?  Mechanically, it's just the DS again with one screen on the controller and the other being your TV, and I've already seen how little developers will "innovate" using touchscreens on the DS.

Your right. They should have just called it the WiiDS.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2011, 10:28:20 PM »
I guess I'm an odd man for being really excited and not too worried how unfocused and unclear is everything for the Wii U at the moment? Wii U is going to unfamiliar and foggy territory and I'm eager to see where it goes.

How is it "foggy and unfamiliar"?  Mechanically, it's just the DS again with one screen on the controller and the other being your TV, and I've already seen how little developers will "innovate" using touchscreens on the DS.

Your right. They should have just called it the WiiDS.
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Hey, at least it would have been better than "Wii U".
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Offline Enner

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2011, 10:29:27 PM »
I guess I'm an odd man for being really excited and not too worried how unfocused and unclear is everything for the Wii U at the moment? Wii U is going to unfamiliar and foggy territory and I'm eager to see where it goes.

How is it "foggy and unfamiliar"?  Mechanically, it's just the DS again with one screen on the controller and the other being your TV, and I've already seen how little developers will "innovate" using touchscreens on the DS.

You are thinking about the controller and the system. When I typed the post, I was thinking about the direction and place Nintendo wants the Wii U to go.
Now that I think about it, I could be wrong on both accounts.

Offline gypsyOtoko

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2011, 10:41:12 PM »
If I may propose a counter to your arguement regarding the name:


You bring up an interesting proposition that the Wii name itself carries a negative connotation within the hardcore community, and as such that would somehow negatively affect the image of the Wii U among hardcore gamers.


My proposition is this: what if among hardcore gamers, rather than the Wii, the more prevalent image is that of the Nintendo brand name, not the Wii. In such a case regardless of what the Wii was, and regardless of what the Wii U was named, the fact that Nintendo prioritizes price over performance in order to attain a larger market share, as well as their unfailing dedication to providing the best of the best 1st party titles would be foremost on the hardcore gamer's mind.


Those people (read: we) would be more inclined to base their decision on Nintendo's history than what Nintendo named the console either way.


Just food for thought.

Offline Bboy

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2011, 11:28:08 PM »
Why so negative? I feel like everyone's attacking the Wii U based almost purely on the name when we really won't know anything until a year from now when it comes out.

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2011, 11:44:00 PM »
Why so negative? I feel like everyone's attacking the Wii U based almost purely on the name when we really won't know anything until a year from now when it comes out.

Well, if that's the case Nintendo brought it upon themselves.  They didn't show a single 1st party Wii U game at E3, their demo reel was all footage from other consoles, and they didn't announce a single Wii game for this year besides Skyward Sword to fill in the waiting period for the new console.  Nintendo didn't do anything to deter speculation and criticism of their mediocre E3 showing, such as bringing over games to satiate that audience.  Had Nintendo announced that they were bringing over any of their Japan-exclusive Wii games or (heaven forbid) announced new Wii games for this final year of the Wii's life, it would probably be simple enough to brush off the Wii U until a later date.
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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2011, 11:56:25 PM »
Why so negative? I feel like everyone's attacking the Wii U based almost purely on the name when we really won't know anything until a year from now when it comes out.

Well, if that's the case Nintendo brought it upon themselves.  They didn't show a single 1st party Wii U game at E3, their demo reel was all footage from other consoles, and they didn't announce a single Wii game for this year besides Skyward Sword to fill in the waiting period for the new console.  Nintendo didn't do anything to deter speculation and criticism of their mediocre E3 showing, such as bringing over games to satiate that audience.  Had Nintendo announced that they were bringing over any of their Japan-exclusive Wii games or (heaven forbid) announced new Wii games for this final year of the Wii's life, it would probably be simple enough to brush off the Wii U until a later date.

Just because Nintendo didn't announce that many Wii games at the conference doesn't mean that they didn't the days and weeks after. Just because something doesn't get announced at the conference means that something isn't coming out ever.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2011, 12:01:32 AM »
Just because Nintendo didn't announce that many Wii games at the conference doesn't mean that they didn't the days and weeks after. Just because something doesn't get announced at the conference means that something isn't coming out ever.

And when they finally get around to showing and talking about them, people will start focusing their attention on those.  Until then, Nintendo's left them little else to talk about, and that's all on Nintendo.  Nintendo didn't have to have these huge software droughts on the Wii, and several times promised we wouldn't.  Now, they're suffering the consequences of their complacency.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2011, 12:40:38 AM »
Even on Nintendo's worst Wii year, it still sells 30% more Wiis that year than Gamecube sold its whole lifespan, and by this time Gamecube was down to $99
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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2011, 12:44:38 AM »
I wonder why Sony's stock didn't fall. Vita price point is nice for the consumer, but Sony is going to be BLEEDING money with that high tech machine

They did. Their stock dropped due to the PSN hacking.
http://saveandquitgaming.com/sony-loses-2-08-billion-dollars-since-psn-outage/
Once it hit rock bottom, it was inevitable that the Vita announcement would make it rise again.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 12:48:22 AM by axisofweevils »

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2011, 12:47:01 AM »
Even on Nintendo's worst Wii year, it still sells 30% more Wiis that year than Gamecube sold its whole lifespan, and by this time Gamecube was down to $99

Sales, in and of themselves, mean nothing. Wii may still be selling way better, but it's still shaping up to be having as shitty a final year in terms of software support as the GameCube.
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Offline Enner

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2011, 02:46:14 AM »
Just because Nintendo didn't announce that many Wii games at the conference doesn't mean that they didn't the days and weeks after. Just because something doesn't get announced at the conference means that something isn't coming out ever.

And when they finally get around to showing and talking about them, people will start focusing their attention on those.  Until then, Nintendo's left them little else to talk about, and that's all on Nintendo.  Nintendo didn't have to have these huge software droughts on the Wii, and several times promised we wouldn't.  Now, they're suffering the consequences of their complacency.

Thankfully, there are some other games to talk about even in these lean summer months. I guess that's a consequence of their complacency and making people wait so long for Nintendo product.

Even on Nintendo's worst Wii year, it still sells 30% more Wiis that year than Gamecube sold its whole lifespan, and by this time Gamecube was down to $99

Sales, in and of themselves, mean nothing. Wii may still be selling way better, but it's still shaping up to be having as shitty a final year in terms of software support as the GameCube.

Maybe there will be some surprise announcements! Maybe, just maybe! ;_;

Offline famicomplicated

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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2011, 02:58:49 AM »
Like a said in my Unanswered Questions feature (point 8.) I'm really concerned how they're going to market this thing other than what I suggested, literally have 2 separate styles for the core/casual crowds, but that just seems unwieldy and confusing.


What if a casual gamer saw a super hardcore (sorry) commercial for Wii U and got put off thinking it's not for them, vice-versa what if a core gamer guy saw a super-happy-fun-time commercial and thought the Wii U is "just the Wii waggle mini-game collection bullshit again".


Seriously how are they going to sell this thing to people other than us? No way our Mums are going to spend $250 on an new system when they got bored of Wii Sports after a few years (unaware it accepts more than the included shiny silver disk) and think the same thing would happen again with the Wii U.


Personally, I'd be fine if it was mainly a core gamer system with the occasional family game I could whip out from time to time, but that's not where the money is...


It's going to be an interesting 12 months!
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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2011, 09:51:24 AM »
Honestly, good Demographic data and understanding should minimize the wrong message getting to the wrong people.  Though I have personally found that Marketers of today are not nearly as adapt as those in the late 80's early 90's during the height of the Cola Wars.  I have missed plenty of items or events that I was actually interested in but found out about to late.  I mean you just have to look at the ads that pop-up here or those stupid flat tummy ones to see what I mean.
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Re: Will Wii U Be the Same Old Game?
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2011, 10:27:50 AM »
If I may propose a counter to your arguement regarding the name:

You bring up an interesting proposition that the Wii name itself carries a negative connotation within the hardcore community, and as such that would somehow negatively affect the image of the Wii U among hardcore gamers.

My proposition is this: what if among hardcore gamers, rather than the Wii, the more prevalent image is that of the Nintendo brand name, not the Wii. In such a case regardless of what the Wii was, and regardless of what the Wii U was named, the fact that Nintendo prioritizes price over performance in order to attain a larger market share, as well as their unfailing dedication to providing the best of the best 1st party titles would be foremost on the hardcore gamer's mind.

Those people (read: we) would be more inclined to base their decision on Nintendo's history than what Nintendo named the console either way.

Just food for thought.

Good points, all of them. I agree that the "Nintendo" name still has a good amount of cache with gamers. However, it isn't possible to separate the "Nintendo" and "Wii" brands. They'll intrinsically linked, and I believe that in the eyes of the hardcore gamer the Wii brand does damage to the Nintendo brand.

You also can't look at the traditional "hardcore" gamer as entirely one group. I didn't really address that in the article. I think the Wii U will do fine with longtime Nintendo fans. I'll most likely buy one (maybe not at launch), and so will most of the NWR community. But we are Nintendo fans. Even if the third party lineup is non-existent, we would still buy Nintendo consoles to play Nintendo games. There is a whole different group of traditional gamers out there that aren't longtime Nintendo fans. I see Nintendo having trouble courting this group (the Xbox/PlayStation crowd). They will have to offer a serious advantage to capture those gamers' wallets. The third party lineup isn't going to do it, because those games can already be played on their current console(s).

Why so negative? I feel like everyone's attacking the Wii U based almost purely on the name when we really won't know anything until a year from now when it comes out.

I suppose my outlook is grim but I didn't intent it to be outright negative. I wanted to go over my thoughts on how brand identity plays into the Wii U. Everybody is saying "it's just a name, it doesn't matter" and I don't agree with that. It may have held true for the Wii, which was a totally new brand with no identity, but this time around the name has an existing identity that can't just be erased. Nintendo wants to get the hardcore gamer back, but they also want to keep their casual audience, and they don't believe they can do the second without the Wii brand. They do think that they can regain lost consumers in spite of the Wii brand. It strikes me as wanting your cake and eating it to.

Like a said in my Unanswered Questions feature (point 8.) I'm really concerned how they're going to market this thing other than what I suggested, literally have 2 separate styles for the core/casual crowds, but that just seems unwieldy and confusing.

What if a casual gamer saw a super hardcore (sorry) commercial for Wii U and got put off thinking it's not for them, vice-versa what if a core gamer guy saw a super-happy-fun-time commercial and thought the Wii U is "just the Wii waggle mini-game collection bullshit again".

Seriously how are they going to sell this thing to people other than us? No way our Mums are going to spend $250 on an new system when they got bored of Wii Sports after a few years (unaware it accepts more than the included shiny silver disk) and think the same thing would happen again with the Wii U.

Personally, I'd be fine if it was mainly a core gamer system with the occasional family game I could whip out from time to time, but that's not where the money is...

It's going to be an interesting 12 months!

Great points, and I agree fully. It is going to be very difficult to run two concurrent advertising campaigns with separate messages. It's not impossible, but it will definitely be a big challenge. I'm interested in seeing if Nintendo can pull it off.