Author Topic: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.  (Read 28907 times)

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Offline lolmonade

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Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« on: March 13, 2011, 03:06:02 AM »
Is it just me or does it seem like Sony hasn't learned anything?  I love some of sony's products, but I sincerely feel like they've done nothing to learn from their mistakes in the last console generation.  The best example is to compare the NGP to the 3GS.

NGP: Create what can be considered the most advanced hand-held machine with the most features possible (not counting 3D), and sell it at a loss to make it price competitive (but yet, still above what consumers are willing to pay).  Include exclusives a year after launch that only a core audience will truly care about (me included, but besides the point).  This item will only be popular late in the console cycle when the price has been reduced enough to be considered a worthwhile venture for consumers.

3DS:
- proper support from 3rd party developers - proper 3rd party support from the start
- Killer app - first glasses-free mobile 3D device: although in the long-term this might take a back-burner, in this environment, this could mean a great deal towards early adopters and casual users
- digital game service similar to Wii's (hand-held virtual console): while I wish they'd allow SNES, Genesis, & NES games, it's a good start to allow these systems
- Further integration of internet features such as street pass, and online features mirroring the Wii.

I am a fan both of Nintendo and Sony products, but Nintendo seems like they've evolving while Sony is riding the same business strategy that screwed themselves over with the PS3.  Any thoughts?  Will Sony's strategy work because it's a powerful hand-held system that doesn't cost $600 U.S. Dollars!, or will Nintendo's system of gradual evolution with one innovative feature and much lower price (assumedly) be enough to offset Sony's efforts? 

My guess would be Nintendo will reign supreme again, although it will be a much slower burn due to prices of both hand-held consoles.
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Offline ymeegod

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2011, 06:38:35 AM »
" Include exclusives a year after launch that only a core audience will truly care about "  Isn't that a matter of opinion? 

And Sony still haven's stated what the price will be but either of that will matter because both handhelds are going suffer from the same thing--shortages.  Basically whoever makes the most systems is going win round 1.


Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2011, 07:08:40 AM »
But since Nintendo is launching probably at least 6 months ahead of Sony, they will have resolved a lot of their supply issues before Sony even gets out the door. That plus the fact that I doubt Sony could price it low enough to be competitive with the 3DS without going too far into the red means Nintendo's all but locked up the first year. By that point, Nintendo will have most, if not all, of the big games that have been announced so far, plus even more, and I doubt Sony will have even one really good true exclusive for the NGP. I'm very interested in the NGP, and will likely buy one, but I can't see it keeping up with the 3DS, at least not in the first few years. I can see it being like the PS3, getting out of the gate slow, but picking up steam once the price drops and after building an impressive lineup of exclusives. Sony themselves need to be working on games for the thing that can only be played on it and don't have superior versions on other hardware.
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Offline Morari

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2011, 12:00:46 PM »
I haven't been a fan of Sony's hardware for well over two decades. It all tends to be overpriced, sub-par merchandise. Even if it wasn't, it'd be awfully hard to support a company that historically treats its customers as bad as Sony does. Now, as far as video games go? They've proven time and time again that they're not much of a software company.

Concession: I absolutely love Sony Vegas. It's my choice program for video editing. But do keep in mind that it was merely purchased by Sony, not developed.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2011, 12:24:45 PM »
Sony is a Technology Company that is trying to push as much tech into everyones home as possible. A games console is just a way to introduce some tech in hopes of standardizing it. Making games is secondary to the goal of moving the tech forward.

PS1 used CD's which were just becoming popular at the time. But this was mostly an F-U to Nintendo and an entry point into consumers homes
PS2 used DVD's which really helped standardize the format in many peoples homes and get them away from VHS. Let's also not forget the Emotion Engine which was supposed to help deliver Toy Story 2 level graphics at a fraction of the price of studio CG machines.
PSP was an attempt to push UMD and Memory Stick, but UMD didn't go far enough and no one wants MS when SD has pretty much already won
PS3 has almost single handedly standardized Bluray as the only current retail HD movie delivery format. If it wasn't for PS3, HD DVD would  still be active. It was also a way to ouch the Cell chip which they wanted to introduce into many other consumer devices so that they could communicate. I've only heard of 1 TV so far that is gonna incorporate it, and I can't really say I see the point yet, but I also haven't seen what this TV can do vs every other TV out there.

For Sony, the software is a showpiece for the technology that makes it possible. They only make the games to interest you in the hardware.

As for Nintendo, the hardware is a catalyst for the games because Nintendo is a games company 1st and foremost. They only make hardware to have a platform on which to sell you games. In fact the hardware is designed to allow the game they have envisioned to become a reality. Every game after that just has to work within those very narrow confines of what was necessary at the time of conception.

So it's not that Sony hasn't really learned anything, they just have a different motivation for even being in this business. While alot of their 1st party games have really stepped up in quality from the days of PS1, gaming is still secondary to selling the tech as they are showpieces for the hardware. The main reason Sony relies on the games to make up for the losses they take on the hardware, is because the hardware is designed to be a powerhouse in hopes of setting industry standards(once the developers have the freedom to express their creativity with limits, do they really want to go back to working with 64MB of RAM and a 2GB delivery format?).


We can even look at MS, whose main motivator is to cock-block Sony from taking over the livingroom with their hardware that doesn't have any Microsoft software on it. MS never really had in interest in the games, but the games are whats gonna sell the hardware which will then allow them to sell you more software & services like Xbox LIVE and all that comes with it (now and what they have planned for the near future). MS's main reason for being in the game is to put MS software all over throughout your home and the only way they can do that is to sell you MS hardware and the only way to sell you MS hardware that puts the computing on the comfort of your TV is through gaming.


MS's 1st major attempt was putting Win CE on the Dreamcast, but that certainly didn't succeed, so they decided make their own hardware. And they tried to sell you this hardware by slapping together the best PC they could for under $300 and pushing "the best unified online service to ever be on such a system".
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 12:52:41 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2011, 12:50:23 PM »
CD's were just becoming popular? They had been popular for years. PS1 used CDs for the storage space. PS2's really only helped DVDs in Japan as the format was already rapidly expanding elsewhere. If anything, DVD helped PS2 since many Japanese launch owners admitted to buying the system mainly as a DVD player (although that may have been because the launch lineup sucked). I will admit that the PS3 helped Blu-ray Disc though since it was the cheapest BD player for some time and even now it is one the better BD players on the market.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2011, 12:55:25 PM »
Now, as far as video games go? They've proven time and time again that they're not much of a software company.

Oh really?  I think Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, The Last Guardian, the Ratchet & Clank series, the Jak & Daxter Series, Infamous 1 & 2, Uncharted 1 & 2, LittleBigPlanet 1 & 2, God of War 1-3, etc. all beg to disagree.  You can argue that these were developed by studios that Sony acquired, but they are Sony 1st party titles just as Retro-produced Nintendo titles are still 1st party titles and considered "Nintendo games".  Sony may not have been much of a development house in the PS1 era, but they invested wisely when it comes to studios and it's really paying off dividends now.

As for the NGP, I'm pretty indifferent to it.  If I wanted a console experience, I'd turn on my PS3.  My fear is that Japan's obsession with handhelds will lead (just as it has with the PSP and DS) to nearly all the worthwhile Japanese titles being exclusive to those handhelds, and the NGP being essentially a PS 2.5 doesn't help.  If it does come to that, the games I'm interested in will probably go to the NGP over the 3DS, so I might pick one up somewhere down the line when it's cheaper.  But that's a big "IF".  Personally, I'd just prefer to purchase the titles I want from PSN and just play them on my PS3, but despite being able to see the titles on PSN Sony insists that I purchase and play them on hardware I don't want.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 12:59:11 PM by broodwars »
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2011, 01:00:57 PM »

CD's were just becoming popular? They had been popular for years. PS1 used CDs for the storage space. PS2's really only helped DVDs in Japan as the format was already rapidly expanding elsewhere. If anything, DVD helped PS2 since many Japanese launch owners admitted to buying the system mainly as a DVD player (although that may have been because the launch lineup sucked). I will admit that the PS3 helped Blu-ray Disc though since it was the cheapest BD player for some time and even now it is one the better BD players on the market.

CD's were already popular when the PS1 came out, but lots of people were still bumping cassettes when they first started making the system. PS1 came out right about the same time that the Discman became the thing to have. And I never said PS1 made CD's popular, just that it came out when CD were just getting really popular (meaning everyone was switching over and dropping cassettes completely.)

If I remember correctly, PS2 was the cheapest DVD player at the time of it's release too. That is the main reason alot of people just bought the PS2, as a DVD player that could also play games. DVD adoption probably would have been much slower had the PS2 not existed.
It's the same exact story for the PS3 and Bluray.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 01:12:38 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2011, 01:12:28 PM »
The PS1 probably did help make optical discs more popular for games as all the previous disc systems had failed. I think DVDs still would have continued increasing in popularity without the PS2, but I admit that it probably helped the format a little (not a lot though). The PS2 was a pretty crappy DVD player, but like you said it was one of the cheaper DVD players early on.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2011, 03:40:12 PM »
The thing that helped DVD the most was that you didn't have to rewind it. It was a huge leap forward over VHS in terms of picture/sound quality and so on. There was far more of an incentive to upgrade from VHS to DVD than there is at the moment to upgrade from DVD to Blu-ray. DVD solved a lot of problems VHS had, that's why it caught on so fast.  Blu-ray is an incremental improvement and not the huge leap forward that its successor was.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2011, 04:34:44 PM »
That is a major reason why I haven't jumped on the Bluray bandwagon. It's only benefit is a higher resolution, and considering that most of the movies I watched are upscaled on DVD and/or streamed over the internet, a Higher resolution isn't really something that I am willing to pay more for.

Not having to rewind or fast forward to get to the movie, or a specific scene in the movie was a HUGE motivation towards getting with DVD, not to mention that you could store 2.5x-3x as many DVD's in the same space that you kept your VHS tapes assuming that you kept it in it's case .

Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2011, 04:42:00 PM »
There is also the storage space issue, up to 50GB on Blu-ray Disc compared to 8.7GB for DVD. There are also the BD-Live features. However, I don't think the extra features are worth the price increase (BD discs tend to be about $10 more).
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2011, 05:06:23 PM »
As a consumer, why would I care about storage space if it hold the movie I want to watch, the previews and the extra features all the same? Storage space means nothing to me as a consumer unless I get to store stuff on it.

One of the funniest things about Bluray advertising that I still don't get is how they include that bluray ad on lots of DVD's that try to show of the High Resolution picture as I'm watching it from a DVD as if I can see what they hell they are talking about. And I don't even know what BD Live is or why I would want to use it. I'm still not sure why I'd need my Bluray player connected to the internet outside of Netflix & hulu. In other words, no one has made me realize what I am missing, and until they do, I have no incentive to upgrade.

At this point, I'm waiting to see what's up with HVD & 4K video. I assume 4K will be the Theater standard that brings Bigscreen HD visuals to the masses and that those 4k movies will ship to theaters on HVD's. That will be an incentive for many to go back to the theater and allow people to SEE what they are missing by not having an HD player in their house, and a block against quality bootleg movies as they will not be able to simply copy the disc (200GB+ movies with completely uncompressed audio and video) and considering that lots of the movies might be shot in 3D at that point, a cam copy would look like crap too.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2011, 05:31:54 PM »
Blu-ray probably isn't going to have a long life because there is already stuff that dwarfs it. Why adopt that and invest a small fortune in a library of Blu-ray media when 5 years from now something like HVD is just going to replace it anyway? That said, the only Blu-ray media I own are my PS3 games. I own a PS3 so I do have the means to play Blu-ray movies, but I'm just not interested at all.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2011, 05:34:17 PM »
BD-Live allows you to get access to more bonus stuff. For example, The Dark Knight allowed you to record your own video commentary (assuming you have a webcam) and then upload it for others to watch, it also had a live blog with Christopher Nolan where you could watch the movie with him and other fans and ask him questions. Julie & Julia let you have recipes e-mailed to you if you were watching the movie and wanted the recipe for what they were cooking. Disney has it with all of their titles that you can chat with other people who are watching the movie at the same time (among other things). With X-Men Origins: Wolverine, you could bring up a actor's IMDb page while you are watching the movie. When a studio actually takes advantage of BD-Live, it's a pretty cool feature.

As for storage space, it lets you use fewer discs. For example, The Simpsons: The Complete Thirteenth Season is 3 discs on BD and 4 discs on DVD. This won't matter much if you just want a plain movie, but it's great if you want a TV season set or movie collection.

BD isn't going away anytime soon, new tech takes years to come out. Besides, HVD offers nothing but more storage space. At least BD and HD DVD offered improved visuals among other things.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2011, 05:37:39 PM »
That is a major reason why I haven't jumped on the Bluray bandwagon. It's only benefit is a higher resolution, and considering that most of the movies I watched are upscaled on DVD and/or streamed over the internet, a Higher resolution isn't really something that I am willing to pay more for.

Honestly, the benefit of Blu-Ray HD in a lot of the movies I watch varies.  There is definitely a noticeable difference between standard def DVDs on my LCD TV and seeing them on Blu-Ray, but you have to have the right TV and you have to have the right kind of movie to really see it.  What really shines on Blu-Ray, though, is animation.  Apparently, the Blu-Ray standard has an especially rich color palette compared to DVD, so animation is just gorgeous on the format (notable examples: Star Wars - The Clone Wars and Beauty & the Beast).  CG animation (which can have a lot of issues with compression artifacts) can be shown much less compressed due to the 50 GB size limit.  Naturally, the animation has to be remastered for HD, but when it has been there really is no contest between DVD and Blu-Ray.

EDIT:  And yeah, having it all on fewer discs is a definite plus when you're trying to cut down on storage.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 05:39:52 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2011, 05:47:52 PM »
BD isn't going away anytime soon, new tech takes years to come out.
Its out now.

Besides, HVD offers nothing but more storage space.

Storage space is the only thing any sort of disc offers. Do you understand how technology works? Blu-ray discs do not have magical enchanted properties that DVD doesn't have. The only advantage it offers over DVD is more storage space, but that increase in storage space opens many doors and allows Blu-ray discs to do many things, such as contain full length movies in HD. DVDs can also hold the same HD video, but not as much of it. Maybe only a half hour or so. Certainly not enough for a full length movie.

With 500GB at its disposal, HVD can do 10 times what a 50gb Blu-ray can do. If you think BD-Live is impressive, just wait until HVD-Live shows up.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2011, 05:58:37 PM »
But I see Bluray as a stop-gap between DVD and HVD. HVD will be the last physical disc format that Consumers will need as that will be when HD video & audio can be fully uncompressed for the future High Density SuperHD screens.

I don't expect HVD to wait for SHD(4k+) screens, but you make the point of a sason on The Simpson being 4 DVD's and only 3 BRD's, but that would be 1 HVD.
Just picture something like the complete series of Law & Order. On DVD that must be something close to 50 DVD's at this point. Which might only be about 35 BRD's and then 10 HVD's.

The benefits of BD Live sound amusing for the first few times you try it at best and then quickly forgotten afterwards. It's actually sounds a little like have the forums on your TV while you watch a show, only your programs aren't synced and someone has just ruined what happens in 10 minutes for you. Either way, everything that Bluray has HVD will have only it will also have more storage space (which they might actually be able to put to use by maybe recording your commentary to your disc or recording peoples reactions to certain scenes of certain movies right on the disc. Or whatever other things they imagine might be an attention worthy gimmick at the time.), uncompressed audio, extremely high resolution for those that have the equipment to take advantage of it & the best way to fight piracy for retail released disc*.


*Who is gonna have a HVD burner and blank HVD disc**? Who is gonna rip 200GB+ files and upload them to the internet? Who is gonna download 200+GB files everytime they want to watch a movie?

**I realized I mentioned burning straight to the disc earlier, but you never know how that stuff works. Could be a hybrid disc that uses a different type of re-writable format. This is all hypothetical talk so lets not focus on that. ;)


edit: @ Broodwars
I have no doubts that HD looks better, I used to have HD cable service, but after a certain amount of time, I realized tha tit just doesn't really matter to me all that much. It looks much cleaner, a lot finer detail, an overall just much better picture, but is that really worth paying more for? $10 extra a month for HD cable when I watch most stuff online/on the computer anyway? an extra $10 per movie or TV Show series/volume? To me, not right now, as like I said, I don't reallly know what I'm missing.


If Comcast gave me Free HD for the next 3 months and moved all teh HD channels to take place of the regular SD channels, then I might not want to go back to regular TV. If Netflix started streaming in 1080p onto my computer screen, then I might get annoyed when non-HD things start to look a little blurry in comparison.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 06:08:14 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2011, 06:00:05 PM »
BD isn't going away anytime soon, new tech takes years to come out.
Its out now.

You mean the tech that finished in 2007 and 4 years later there is STILL no HVD player? Companies have shown they have zero interest in it, it's basically vaporware now. The first Blu-ray Disc player came out a few months after the specs were finished, DVD was less than a year. Considering that no company has actually used it despite the final specs being approved almost 4 years ago, I wouldn't hold my breath of it replacing anything.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2011, 06:17:57 PM »
I'm sure it's mostly because all the studios were supporting HD DVD and Bluray at the same time, so to support a 3rd format would be spreading resources and attention too thin.

Now that Bluray has "succeeded", at least won out over HD DVD, it's too soon to push another format when adoption of Bluray is still climbing at a reasonable pace. I say give it 2-3 years before HVD/Bluray/DVD players hit the market, and then eventually movie studios start testing out the waters with HVD releases of Blockbuster hits.

p.s. there is one HVD player on the market that I know of, but I don't know of any media that was released on the format yet.

Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2011, 06:22:11 PM »
p.s. there is one HVD player on the market that I know of, but I don't know of any media that was released on the format yet.

If it's the one I just saw, it's only out in India (?). No companies have announced any releases for it from what I can tell.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2011, 06:50:01 PM »
p.s. there is one HVD player on the market that I know of, but I don't know of any media that was released on the format yet.

If it's the one I just saw, it's only out in India (?). No companies have announced any releases for it from what I can tell.

That would be the only consumer available player I could find. But I have read somewhere that the tech has been used commercially.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2011, 08:56:52 PM »
You mean the tech that finished in 2007 and 4 years later there is STILL no HVD player?

That doesn't matter. The CD format was invented in 1982 but it took about 10 years after that before it really took off. What everyone is probably waiting on is for the cost of the HVD media and hardware to go down. If it costs thousands of dollars for a player and hundreds for a disc then its not yet at the point where its viable to anyone except wealthy businesses and organizations that might need it for data storage/backup.

BTW, I just looked on Wikipedia and apparently the storage capacity of an HVD is a whopping 6 TB (Terabytes). I don't know who first said 500gb, but that's actually far less than what its capable of. It really makes a Blu-ray look like a floppy disk in comparison.

ETA: I also looked at the Blu-ray article on Wikipedia and found this:
Quote
The first Blu-ray Disc prototypes were unveiled in October 2000, and the first prototype player was released in April 2003 in Japan. After that, it continued to be developed until its official release in June 2006.

So the first prototype thing was in 2000 and it didn't hit the market until 2006. That's 6 years. So if HVD was finalized 4 years ago and still hasn't hit the market then that's not really unusual considering Blu-ray was the same way. I can imagine back in 2000 people on the internet may have been having a similar discussion. At that time Blu-ray must have seemed like the boogeyman on the horizon that HVD is today.

HVD will be the last physical disc format that Consumers will need

For the foreseeable future anyway. Its probably decades away, but at some point something like the Holodecks from Star Trek TNG may become a reality. You would need a massive amount of storage space for that ****. There is some famous quote by Bill Gates from either the 70s or the 80s where he said 600kb of storage space is all any average person would ever need.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 09:34:55 PM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2011, 10:43:05 PM »
Bluray is a joke of the worse kind. With codecs like H.264 and the like you could code a 720p, 90minute movie in to 1.5GB into a file that 99% of people would have accepted. The last 1% would have been the audio/videophiles that will never be satisfied unless they got the original prints.

The point is that we could have had Full/HD video on DVD at a good quality and price. Bluray is incredibly wasteful for what it does. It is a pointless step till before we got our collective hands on uncompressed formats.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2011, 11:10:50 PM »
You mean the tech that finished in 2007 and 4 years later there is STILL no HVD player?

That doesn't matter. The CD format was invented in 1982 but it took about 10 years after that before it really took off. What everyone is probably waiting on is for the cost of the HVD media and hardware to go down. If it costs thousands of dollars for a player and hundreds for a disc then its not yet at the point where its viable to anyone except wealthy businesses and organizations that might need it for data storage/backup.

What are you talking about? You are comparing the rise in popularity of one product to another product that is not even out?

ETA: I also looked at the Blu-ray article on Wikipedia and found this:
Quote
The first Blu-ray Disc prototypes were unveiled in October 2000, and the first prototype player was released in April 2003 in Japan. After that, it continued to be developed until its official release in June 2006.

So the first prototype thing was in 2000 and it didn't hit the market until 2006. That's 6 years. So if HVD was finalized 4 years ago and still hasn't hit the market then that's not really unusual considering Blu-ray was the same way. I can imagine back in 2000 people on the internet may have been having a similar discussion. At that time Blu-ray must have seemed like the boogeyman on the horizon that HVD is today.

You are mixing up two different things. They may have started working on Blu-ray technology in 2000, but the final specs (meaning the actual discs that will be used by consumers and companies) wasn't released until 2006, at which point the first movies came out only a few months later. HVD began in 2004. The final specs were approved in June 2007, but nothing has been released with it yet (aside from some random HVD player in India). As for 500 GB, that is probably referring to a version of it from GE. Even if they can hold 6TB, that won't happen anytime soon as even the most generous statement only has 1TB out in 2019. It would be cool to have that much space, but right now HVD can not even be taken seriously until a company actually does something.

ooohhboy, I don't think you understand how technology works.
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