Topic: Mafia LII:Teen Titans Season 1 Mafia end of game thread

[BeautifulShy]

Story

[BeautifulShy]

Results stevey was Mad Mod and he was voted out.


Mafia Teen Titans winners are thatguy was Robin,Nickmitch was Beast boy,jrlibrarian was Raven,UncleBob as a normal townie Larry, Mop it up as a random citizen in the city. Golden Phoenix as a townie.


You may be wondering why GP is up there as a winner when she died.Well I decided to make her a winner because I think had I kept things as they were she would have lived through the game as a townie and quite possibly one of the other roles would have gotten killed by the Mafia.By giving her a role I put her in danger when she would have not been.

[Khushrenada]

Well, I'm going to use my mod powers to comment in a locked thread since I can't use 'em for much else or any else on these forums.


Congratulations townies. Great job. It's always a relief to see that one's sacrifice is not in vain.

As for the mafia, I know it looks like everything went to hell in a handbasket real quick but I have to give you all praise for the job you did. It wasn't the result you wanted but I have to applaud how well you kept suckering me and easing my worries. Shyguy sent me a pm after the hit so I knew he was the Godfather Day 3 as I was watching. But what really clued me in was when Shyguy and Apdude then began talking about a suspect list I had made and sent them. I knew then for sure that they were in cahoots. I never sent a suspect list to Shyguy and the "suspect list" I gave Apdude wasn't the real suspect list I shared with my townie alliance. That said, Sundoulos did have a copy but I'm unsure whether he sent it your way.

When I look back on day 2 and how I kept circling around the mafia and was so close to peicing it altogether, I keep kicking myself. Somehow, you guys managed to talk me out of pursing you further and I kept buying into the belief I could trust you. So, hats off. I'm clearly rusty from a long absence of playing.

It was good fun while it lasted. Thanks for hosting Maxi.

[BeautifulShy]

My thoughts..


This game was my second game and well I think the way I handled the game wasn't that good. My main communication was with the Mafia. They included me with what they were doing. I tried to inform them of any thing that could be a possible problem and informed them of the roles nuances on both sides if they asked.


I didn't actually get that many questions from the townies. I really only tried to explain what might be dangers to them if they were in a tough situation and a way that they might get out of them.


Overall here is I think are the mistakes in the game that I did that affected things. The Puppet King Role. I probably should have either had told the townies that were switched and not who with or I told everyone as much info on both sides.  Here is one of the ways that I thought the Puppet King role could benifit the Mafia had it worked as it was supposed to.


The Mafia could have found out about a role and could have switched it off to a person that was going to be the Mafia's kill or someone who was about to die by not voting for 3 days. This way the townies would basically would be townies and would have to use their smarts instead of using their roles. The other way I figured things could have worked was that the Puppet King could have switched around the Mafia roles and make searches for the townies not be accturate and make the townies choose which of the Mafia member was the greatest threat to them at the time.


The 2nd mistake I made was probably with the poll about the puppet King this clued in the townies and I think may have forced the townies to move quicker then they would have otherwise. I probably should have just when this was brought up I should have tried to fix things myself without bringing attention to it.


Thirdly the Golden Phoenix and Toruresu thing. I probably should have left things how they were and just let things run its course.By that I mean I should have kept Toru Starfire and GP a townie when Toruresu asked to be made a normal townie.


Finally I didn't explain things as well as I should have in the rules and how other roles affected other roles.


Any tips on any of these things and or any other things that you want to bring up let me know and I'll try to fix things for the next time I host.


Aside from all the above how did the game go for all of you?


Also like my last game I want everyones vote for MVP for both sides and the Wild card.

[apdude]

Can I be a townie next game please!  I feel like I'm getting a reputation as always being mafia, although it may have saved me on day two since I could play "the law of averages card". 

I like the way Stevey and Shyguy played.  I should be a little more reserved than I have been recently, but I was afraid that might throw the spotlight on me. 

Sundoulos was trying hard to remove the spotlight from me day 2 and I thank him for that.  We were initially discussing him switching his role with mine since he was in on your aliance but then all the votes started coming in on me so I thought I'd need to be hidden.  If we did switch and he was hidden from the investigation that might have become tough for the townies to figure out though I'd probably be dead. 

The list Khushrenada sent me was quite a good list to trap me or reveal some info.  I couldn't pick MaryJane because he would know Sundoulos told me, I couldn't pick stevey because that would start the bandwagon on him and I couldn't throw him under the bus like that.  The other two were traps which would cause me to be voted out so it was a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

Good job townies.  Stevey's right we should have gotten rid of Thatguy!

[BeautifulShy]

Yeah about that night where I had everyone resend their actions thatguys search was stevey that night. So killing thatguy could have made things a bit tougher for the townies.Although there was two other roles that could search but it wasn't every night like Robin could.

[ShyGuy]

Things went to poopy town when one of the mafia powers turned out to be "form the townie alliance" and the Time Crisis on day three threw everything in the sewer.

[Ceric]

I died in Day 1 so that Stunk.

Anyways, Ok this is the second game where I've heard of people watching PMs.  I know about my own PMs but everyone makes it sound like you can see when another person gets a PM.  I'm confused by this.  How would you?

In my Mafia I tried to give all the specifics about a given role and examples on items I thought where confusing.  That obviously didn't work out for me because I found that many people don't read the full rules.  Same with the story though I still think its important to be their.  That being said I honestly don't know how you could get all the nuances of the roles in  form that the majority of players would know them.

Yeah, lately it seems Apdude is Mafia and ThatGuy is an Investigator.

[BeautifulShy]

I died in Day 1 so that Stunk.

Anyways, Ok this is the second game where I've heard of people watching PMs.  I know about my own PMs but everyone makes it sound like you can see when another person gets a PM.  I'm confused by this.  How would you?

In my Mafia I tried to give all the specifics about a given role and examples on items I thought where confusing.  That obviously didn't work out for me because I found that many people don't read the full rules.  Same with the story though I still think its important to be their.  That being said I honestly don't know how you could get all the nuances of the roles in  form that the majority of players would know them.

Yeah, lately it seems Apdude is Mafia and ThatGuy is an Investigator.

Heres how watching PMs works. Basically say thatguy sent a PM to Khushrenada. Now in this example. Whenever someone starts to send a PM back on Who's online a timestamp is shown and once they are done with that and they open up a new page then it shows that that person is done sending PMs.

Now if Khush and thatguy were on the Mafia team together and they were online at the same time and they stared sending PMs back and forth and it was say Day 1 or before the game started then you could make a pretty reasonable streach and conclude that they were Mafia together.

There is a few ways around this type of thing.

Set yourself to hidden. I did as a host so the players with roles could send their actions in and I could respond back to them without other players thinking what is up with said player that sent me a night action.
Don't respond back right away to your PMs from another player if you both are on the same team. This can give a bit of leeway so there isn't that much of a connection between players.
Send a PM to someone even though they are not online. This is probably the best one to use since you could argue that you were sending out PMs to alot of different players.

Now watching PMs can help if you are talking with someone via PM and they have been saying that they haven't talked to anyone yet other then you. If you between sending PMs to this person see that they are sending PMs to someone else then that can help with deducting if someone is lying or not. This actually happened with me and Yoshidoulious in GP's Punch Out mafia game. He was a new player and I was helping him out but he turned up on the Mafia side.He was doing the same that I mentioned above.

[nickmitch]

Not watching PMs should be a gentleman's rule.

[ShyGuy]

I wonder if it would be possible to have a PM free mafia game.

[Ceric]

I wonder if it would be possible to have a PM free mafia game.

Seriously.
I found with my rules in my game I started gear them more and more assuming everyone was PMing in the background.

[BeautifulShy]

I wonder if it would be possible to have a PM free mafia game.

I guess it could be possible but there is still the night actions that happen. There could be a way around this type of thing but it would involve using other ways to contact other players.

[UncleBob]

The only thing about setting yourself to "hidden" is that forum mods can see who's online/hidden.

Personally, I don't watch PMs, but for anyone who does, that would give them a major advantage.

[BeautifulShy]

Anyway give me some feedback on the game and what you would have improved if you were hosting the game. This goes to everyone that played or watched the game. Did I do anything that you guys liked?

[ShyGuy]

I thought the roles were good except for a couple flaws.

[Ceric]

I thought the roles were good except for a couple flaws.

Thats like saying nothing at all...

[that Baby guy]

The idea that switching two abilities between townies revealed to the two who was switched made no sense. I had trouble believing that was the case when I first heard it, because it does exactly what ShyGuy stated: It formed a townie alliance. There was no purpose to the ability, it didn't make any sense the way it was used in the game.

Then, the event with Golden Phoenix didn't make much sense, either. I'm not entirely sure what happened. From what I understand, GoldenPhoenix was StarFire, which meant she could only be killed under certain conditions or was able to offer protection, or something like that. She received the role after a townie player who had the role said he wouldn't have been able to play. It would have worked better for him to keep the role from the beginning, but once the switch had been made to GP, it should have stayed that way. Revealing who GP was when she wasn't killed probably wasn't the best way to go, and the whole repeat of the day's night actions made very little sense as well. I don't think anything was gained from this, aside from townies getting an extra day for use of abilities. I know I got an extra investigation, at least.

So, yeah. Even with the GP stuff, the game was tilted toward the townies by quite a lot. I had literally intended not to play this game, I was hoping I wouldn't have a role and all that, but it turned out I did. When I got involved, there was already a pretty solid three-townie alliance. They said this: We think Apdude is mafia. We think Sundoulos is mafia. We think MaryJane is mafia. So I went down that list, pretty much, Sundoulos was investigated and when I let everyone know, that's when things switched on Day 2.

After that, Khush died, and immediately everyone seemed suspicious of ShyGuy. The last one to find, as is traditional, was stevey, who was suspect just because of the way his votes lined up. They seemed abnormal in the latter half of this game.

So, yeah. The game seemed to be built for the townies, but a lot of the townie players had it figured out pretty early regardless. I certainly didn't do much to lead to the win. I just acted off of common sense and what I was told, really.

[Sundoulos]

Khush, yes...I did end up sending Khush's original suspect list to the mafia. 

When Khush sent an email to his townie alliance that indicated that he and Uncle Bob knew each others' identity because of the role switch, I did send a PM to Maxi about it.  I was originally hoping the problem would be fixed in the background--I just thought that future uses of the power would exclude the unforseen side-effect of providing free information to the townies; however, once I saw that Maxi had placed the poll up, I figured that I was kind of hosed.   I knew that Khush would know that someone in his group contacted Maxi with his information.  When Khush sent a follow-up PM inquiring about the info leak, I decided to send an email "confessing" that I had sent a PM to Maxi out of a sense of fair play.  I didn't really think anyone would buy it, but I thought it might at least provide an opportunity for apdude to throw me under the bus and get the votes off of his back.  Since he was Blackfire, he had the most reasonable chance of convincing others that he was a townie. 

Reading some of the other responses above, it looks like if I had just played dumb, things perhaps would have played out the same way regardless.  I don't know whether my PM to the townies kind of pushed the investigation in my direction, or if things were heading that way, anyway.

As apdude mentioned, I was originally planning to switch roles with him on Day 2; If I had been investigated, I would have shown up as a townie.     We decided against doing it until the last minute in case anyone happened to investigate him that day before the votes were finalized.  If the vote had not turned on me, the plan was to switch roles just before the day closed; if we couldn't pull out a last-minute vote coup d'état, I would have permanently become Blackfire.  After the Puppet King poll went up, I believed that it would be best not to attempt to switch roles at all.

I'm of the opinion that the Puppet King Role would have been more balanced and useful if it did not include any "investigative" properties at all.   As other had mentioned, it essentially created a mini-townie alliance; it basically provided the same benefit as the Justice League from the DC Universe game a few months ago--only it didn't really cost the townies much of anything in return.   If I had known that going in, I definitely wouldn't have used it so liberally on day 1...or, honestly, I would have picked the Plasma role, instead.  Looking back on it, I wish I had just let things ride for a day or two without using the power on the townies.

That being said, no, things didn't go as expected, but I still had fun.  Thank you for hosting the game, Maxi.

[Khushrenada]

Thatguy received an extra investigation? Then I have to say the mafia absolutely got hosed. No way around that.
 
As for Sundoulos, I just wanted to mention a couple things. When Maxi put up the poll, then I knew that there was a mole in the alliance. So, I sent out that message to see what everyone's responses were. I told Unclebob that I didn't expect anyone to take responsibility for it. I was actually leaning more towards Golden Phoenix as the guilty party since she kept giving me an odd vibe with her responses. When you did pm that you had contacted Maxi, I was quite surprised because I did trust you more like I said in that private pm I sent you. Your reasoning was just enough to leave me unsure of whether you would actually be mafia or not. So, I was thinking about whether or not to switch the day vote from apdude when out of the blue, Thatguy contacted me and told me of his positive investigation of you ending the whole discussion. But I felt bad doing it because your contacting Maxi to fix the broken role was the correct thing to do and saying you did was a great display of fairplay and it seemed like your reward was to get the boot immediately. Truth be told, if Thatguy hadn't contacted me, I might have stuck with the Apdude vote since the rest of the alliance was pretty firm on it or tried for some other player on the list if I felt I could swing it. So, you did your part.
 

[Khushrenada]

A couple of funny things.
 
In my list of suspects, I mentioned that Apdude was nearly my number 1 choice. I just felt that the law of averages might be coming into play and he might be a townie finally and so I wanted to wait a little before voting. When Sundoulos chimed in on his thoughts of potential mafia, he also agreed with me about Apdude being mafia a lot and that he was probably due for a townie role. To gather a bit more intel, I contacted Apdude to get his thoughts on the vote and stop a potential mistake. I try to talk with everyone in the game no matter the circumstances which can be to my detriment but it helps give me another perspective on the various situations that arise. Anyways, Apdude said that he was a townie and also added that he knows he comes up as mafia a lot in past games but he isn't this time. So, I flat out told him that it sounded like he was trying to use my reasoning against me. So, I left him with a riddle but he decided to not answer anymore. It might have all been coincidence but it left me thinking that maybe I should leave the Apdude bandwagon alone and just see what he comes up as.
 
Also, Shyguy sent me a pm asking who I thought looked suspicious. I sent him a reply flat-out saying he did. Maybe not the best thing to do since he turned out to be the godfather and may have got him worried but it was true and for whatever reason I just thought being honest with him might get him to work with me and prove his innocence.
 
That said, I still thought I had a shot at surviving the night since the mafia knew I was just a townie and there were plenty of threatening townie roles out there like the investigator and doctor. Though with two mafia members appearing as townie to an investigation, it limits the threat. In fact, Thatguy suggested leaving Sundoulos in the game and keep targetting someone else. But with all the problems the Puppet King role had created and the polls by Maxi, I felt it best to just target the sure thing and remove the conundrum from the game. Plus, it would help clean up the townie alliance and with the mole gone, maybe promote more trust. It would have been myself and UncleBob and Thatguy whom I could trust along Mop it up who I was very sure of being townie but I won't say why so that she can't use it against me in future games. (Hopefully). If GP had let Bob and I know about her role, things would have really snowballed. People are always so scared to give me info. It was obvious that I was telling the truth about being a townie considering all the discussion Maxi was having on the Puppet King role.
 
I sent out a mass "we're mafia together" pm in the slimmest hope that someone might not read their messages properly and contact me. I mainly sent it out to players who hadn't logged on or posted yet since they wouldn't have had much time in remembering all the new details they were just give. At least, that was the hope. But it didn't result in anything. In fact, a couple people like Insanolord played along with it and so I spent more time trying to figure out if the player actually made a mistake or was trying to sting me along or just thought I was goofing around and joining in. So, I don't think I'll try that again.

[BeautifulShy]

I will say this about the game. I guess I can take away this game as what not to do in Mafia games as a host.


Firstly don't switch around roles with players without a good reason. It messes up the balance of the game and can be slightly confusing to other players. It also might mess up someones play style when they were acting one way but may change their behavior because they have a role where they didn't previously.


Two. Make sure you yourself are clear and detailed with the roles so you yourself can make decisions quickly and without any issues.


Three. Don't make people resend any actions especially if their role can tip the scales into one way more then needed.


4.Handle problems in private and without bringing things out into the open.


5. Try not to overload yourself with hosting duties.

[Ceric]

Its very very tempting to change the rules when a  game doesn't go in the direction you wanted but, players are making strategies and relying on the rules being what they are told.  Its a bad feeling to know you made the rope that your are hanged with.  Part of the reason I won't be hosting for a bit.