Topic: Nintendo Announces Nintendo 3DS

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Nintendo just kicked its competitors in the nuts, showing everyone that this year's motion controls are a fad and will never take off.

Nintendo shows everyone that 3D is the future, just like they did with Mode7 Mario Kart.

[BlackNMild2k1]

http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20100323D23JFN04.htm

No Glasses Necessary For 3-D Nintendo DS Debuting In FY10

TOKYO (Nikkei)--Nintendo Co. (7974) said Tuesday that it will launch a 3-D version of its DS portable game system sometime in the fiscal year ending March 2011, using technology that will not require users to wear special glasses.

The Nintendo 3DS will be the first popular game system available worldwide to have such functionality. It is expected to debut in the second half of 2010. Details are to be released mid-June at the Electronic Entertainment Expo, or E3, in Los Angeles.

Nintendo plans to give the new system a 3-D joystick and a force feedback mechanism that will let players feel the collisions of a game character, for example. It had already acquired related patents at the end of last year. The firm is also considering employing an accelerometer so that games can be played by tilting the 3DS.

While offering compatibility with games for earlier members of the DS series, the 3DS will feature significant improvements in wireless communications speed and battery life. Its screens will likely be no larger than 4 inches -- smaller than the 4.2 inches of the DSi LL, released in Japan last November.

Nintendo aims to differentiate its hand-held from others by focusing on enhancing gaming capabilities. Apple Inc.'s iPhone and Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.'s PlayStation Portable are increasingly serving as multimedia devices whose repertoires include music, video and wireless communications.

(The Nikkei March 24 morning edition)

everything the PSP fans have been crying for with the game support from Nintendo and it's near 100% 3rd party handheld support team. Everybody should be happy now

[Spinnzilla]

I want some 3D pokemanz, where the flamethrowers and Aqua tales to look like they're coming at me.

A pokemon with enhanced 3D specs would be so awesome if they make it JUST like i'm imagining it. 

[Ian Sane]

The DS really became worth a damn once everyone forgot about the stupid gimmicks like the touchscreen and the microphone and just started treating it like a GBA2 where they just made coventional games.  The first year where everyone tried to be all creative and innovative were painful.  But the DS thankfully was also a logical hardware upgrade to the GBA so devs could concentrate on just making great games.  The Wii library has not been able to break out of its shovelware rut because the remote is all it has going for it.  But the DS didn't have that problem.

Nintendo never sold me on their innovative ideas for the DS.  The gimmicks are lame and when they try to force them down our throat we get embarrassing results like Zelda games with horrible controls.  There was no grand gameplay idea that influenced it.  The touchscreen was a marketting gimmick to get non-gamers on board and it WORKED.  And this I suspect is going along the same path.  A 3D display won't really have much a gameplay impact but it will wow non-gamers and get them to upgrade.  I imagine though that such a display will require much more advanced hardware than the DS has now and the conventional games that make use of the improved hardware will attract core gamers.

One thing that's interesting about this is that it actually would rely on good graphics to really impress.  Would 3D Miis impress?  Probably not.  Seeing shapes in 3D isn't a thrill.  You want to see people, creatures, environments.  You want it to be smooth and stuff like lighting has to be perfect to get the illusion right.  This seems very counter-inuitive to Nintendo's current "good enough" approach to graphics.  I'm curious as to what we'll see here and what impact it will have on the eventual Wii successor.  This is very much a presentation focused approach and that would be the anti-Wii.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I remember something from CES where someone was showing off tech for a 3D TV without glasses.

Is this what you're talking about?
http://www.i4u.com/article31466.html

or any of these?
http://i4u.asterpix.com/cy/2424421/?q=3D+Display

[King of Twitch]

Mindblowing.

3-D joystick? As opposed to a flat one?

[Ian Sane]

I want to see how this joystick thing works.  It sounds like a seperate controller for a portable and that seems like it would have a negative effect on the portability of the system.  The DS has a stylus but it fits in this little slot.  To remain truly pocket friendly the 3DS would need a way to store this joystick when not in use.

Though the first thing that pops into my head is something like the Wii nunchuk but that just seems way too big.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I thought this was pretty weird...



this just popped up from the link i posted in my last post when I hit the back button.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I want to see how this joystick thing works.  It sounds like a seperate controller for a portable and that seems like it would have a negative effect on the portability of the system.  The DS has a stylus but it fits in this little slot.  To remain truly pocket friendly the 3DS would need a way to store this joystick when not in use.

Though the first thing that pops into my head is something like the Wii nunchuk but that just seems way too big.

Actually I had a pretty good idea on how to solve that problem, I'm just hoping Nintendo didn't already solve that issue as I haven't finished submitting the patent yet.

[MegaByte]

I think the "3D joystick" is just the motion-controlled stylus patent that we've talked about before.  I don't think it's confirmed information yet.


At GDC, there was a company giving out free Nunchuk-like motion-sensitive bluetooth controllers to iPhone devs, but I would be surprised if Nintendo chose that route.

[King of Twitch]

(laughter)

[GearBoxClock]

As with any announcement, it seems that people are treating this as Nintendo RUINING PORTABLE GAMING FOR EVER

But the Virtual Boy did have some good ideas, so as long as this isn't monochrome red and black and is actually portable, I'm very interested.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Dual-Screen a gimmick, confirmed by Ian Sane.

[King of Twitch]

Dual-Screen a gimmick, confirmed by Ian Sane.

Srsly. Being creative and using the DS features is "painful, gimmicky, lame, and embarrassing"? There must be a universe-destroying paradox emanating from Canada.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Not only that, being another DS, it's just more rehash.

If Motion Plus doesn't fail and make Nintendo ditch the console race, the next machine will be third time they release the GameCube.

"3GC"?  3 GameCubes duct-taped together?  3X the unused 3D viewing ability, making 9D gaming possible?  My goodness, make them stop.

[Stogi]

The DS really became worth a damn once everyone forgot about the stupid gimmicks like the touchscreen and the microphone and just started treating it like a GBA2 where they just made coventional games.  The first year where everyone tried to be all creative and innovative were painful.  But the DS thankfully was also a logical hardware upgrade to the GBA so devs could concentrate on just making great games.  The Wii library has not been able to break out of its shovelware rut because the remote is all it has going for it.  But the DS didn't have that problem.

Nintendo never sold me on their innovative ideas for the DS.  The gimmicks are lame and when they try to force them down our throat we get embarrassing results like Zelda games with horrible controls.  There was no grand gameplay idea that influenced it.  The touchscreen was a marketting gimmick to get non-gamers on board and it WORKED.  And this I suspect is going along the same path.  A 3D display won't really have much a gameplay impact but it will wow non-gamers and get them to upgrade.  I imagine though that such a display will require much more advanced hardware than the DS has now and the conventional games that make use of the improved hardware will attract core gamers.

One thing that's interesting about this is that it actually would rely on good graphics to really impress.  Would 3D Miis impress?  Probably not.  Seeing shapes in 3D isn't a thrill.  You want to see people, creatures, environments.  You want it to be smooth and stuff like lighting has to be perfect to get the illusion right.  This seems very counter-inuitive to Nintendo's current "good enough" approach to graphics.  I'm curious as to what we'll see here and what impact it will have on the eventual Wii successor.  This is very much a presentation focused approach and that would be the anti-Wii.

This is the most condescending post I've seen you write in a long time.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Lets get away from the usual negative blah blah blah from you know who and look at some possible tech behind this.

Several different ways this can be achieved, but this is most-likely the one that uses eye-tracking and follows your movements regardless of how you have the system tilted (due to the accelerometers/gyros).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzRq7GhBLRQ

[Rize]

Did you see ThePerms post? They were doing headtracking using only the cameras in the Wiimotes. No new TV needed.

Besides, 3DTV's are kinda expensive, and just because you have a 120/240hz HDTV doesn't mean it is compatible with the tech. Also each TV manufacturer's 3DTV requires only that manufacturers 3DGlasses for it to even work and unless it's built into the TV, you need a synchronizing device to go with it (assuming your TV is even compatible). Each person that wants to watch 3DHDTV needs their own set of glasses (starting at $130+ each) and the synchronizing device is around $40.

I don't really see 3D TV taking off anytime soon since there are still too many hurdles to jump through for the average consumer to enjoy it(glasses, new TV and financial commitment).

This exemplifies my point.  Why release a special "3DS" when the DSi can already make a shoebox diorama using the camera for head tracking.  Do you see how with head tracking the person's physical head becomes the "camera" (or more accurately, the camera positions the person's head in 3D space and aligns the virtual 3D camera with the person's head to create the illusion that the person's head is the camera).  My point is that there is little point for the 3DS to revolve around this kind of technology as it is a gimmick and only works for a fixed 3D scene.  If you want to play "real" games, you need either the 3D glasses or an equivalent technology using screens that can direct different pictures to each human eye without the glasses.  Head tracking could assist with that, but special screens would be required.

[BeautifulShy]

Lets get away from the usual negative blah blah blah from you know who and look at some possible tech behind this.

Several different ways this can be achieved, but this is most-likely the one that uses eye-tracking and follows your movements regardless of how you have the system tilted (due to the accelerometers/gyros).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzRq7GhBLRQ

Oh wow Nice find BlackNMild. This kind of tech makes more sense to me now.

What if that 3D Joystick is you manipulating your character without any Dpad or a analog stick?

[BlackNMild2k1]

Did you see ThePerms post? They were doing headtracking using only the cameras in the Wiimotes. No new TV needed.

Besides, 3DTV's are kinda expensive, and just because you have a 120/240hz HDTV doesn't mean it is compatible with the tech. Also each TV manufacturer's 3DTV requires only that manufacturers 3DGlasses for it to even work and unless it's built into the TV, you need a synchronizing device to go with it (assuming your TV is even compatible). Each person that wants to watch 3DHDTV needs their own set of glasses (starting at $130+ each) and the synchronizing device is around $40.

I don't really see 3D TV taking off anytime soon since there are still too many hurdles to jump through for the average consumer to enjoy it(glasses, new TV and financial commitment).

This exemplifies my point.  Why release a special "3DS" when the DSi can already make a shoebox diorama using the camera for head tracking.  Do you see how with head tracking the person's physical head becomes the "camera" (or more accurately, the camera positions the person's head in 3D space and aligns the virtual 3D camera with the person's head to create the illusion that the person's head is the camera).  My point is that there is little point for the 3DS to revolve around this kind of technology as it is a gimmick and only works for a fixed 3D scene.  If you want to play "real" games, you need either the 3D glasses or an equivalent technology using screens that can direct different pictures to each human eye without the glasses.  Head tracking could assist with that, but special screens would be required.

Please follow the link I just posted. You seem to be a little behind on the advancements that have been made in technology. GDC just brought a lot to the table as far as 3D viewing is concerned.

Lets get away from the usual negative blah blah blah from you know who and look at some possible tech behind this.

Several different ways this can be achieved, but this is most-likely the one that uses eye-tracking and follows your movements regardless of how you have the system tilted (due to the accelerometers/gyros).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzRq7GhBLRQ

[Rize]

The DS really became worth a damn once everyone forgot about the stupid gimmicks like the touchscreen and the microphone and just started treating it like a GBA2 where they just made coventional games.  The first year where everyone tried to be all creative and innovative were painful.  But the DS thankfully was also a logical hardware upgrade to the GBA so devs could concentrate on just making great games.  The Wii library has not been able to break out of its shovelware rut because the remote is all it has going for it.  But the DS didn't have that problem.

I agree completely.  Yoshi's Touch and Go..... *shudder*

Nintendo never sold me on their innovative ideas for the DS.  The gimmicks are lame and when they try to force them down our throat we get embarrassing results like Zelda games with horrible controls.  There was no grand gameplay idea that influenced it.  The touchscreen was a marketting gimmick to get non-gamers on board and it WORKED.  And this I suspect is going along the same path.  A 3D display won't really have much a gameplay impact but it will wow non-gamers and get them to upgrade.  I imagine though that such a display will require much more advanced hardware than the DS has now and the conventional games that make use of the improved hardware will attract core gamers.

Also a good point.

One thing that's interesting about this is that it actually would rely on good graphics to really impress.  Would 3D Miis impress?  Probably not.  Seeing shapes in 3D isn't a thrill.  You want to see people, creatures, environments.  You want it to be smooth and stuff like lighting has to be perfect to get the illusion right.  This seems very counter-inuitive to Nintendo's current "good enough" approach to graphics.  I'm curious as to what we'll see here and what impact it will have on the eventual Wii successor.  This is very much a presentation focused approach and that would be the anti-Wii.

Here I disagree.  3D will be impressive no matter what the graphics look like. 

Additionally, it's not that hard to do 3D.  All you need is twice the normal CPU/GPU power (or else half the pixels).  You merely need to create two slightly separate images for each eye.  It's no more difficult or limiting than the split screen gameplay that's been with us since the N64 days.

[NWR_insanolord]

You lost me when you said Yoshi Touch & Go was bad.

[BlackNMild2k1]

It's no more difficult or limiting than the split screen gameplay that's been with us since the N64 days.

The difficult part is how to get each separate image to each eye without needing glasses and for multiple people to see the same effect from multiple angles.

the video I linked has a tech provider that allows 64 different viewing points at the same time to see the exact same 3D image. another has a camera that moves the 3D image to wherever you are so that you never lose the effect.

The seciond one is what I would peg as the route Nintendo has taken with 3DS as the simple head-tracking like on DSi only provides a 3D window view. Combine the 2 and we have some crazy visuals coming out way.

[Jonnyboy117]

This is a reasonable discussion to have in the context of a new portable, actually. Nintendo DS had several new interface features -- dual screens, touch screen, microphone, even wireless/online. The first year of DS games was indeed terrible (even longer in the US if you weren't importing), as developers, even Nintendo, took their sweet time to get beyond lame mini-game compilations and other gimmicky game designs. The same happened with 32/64-bit ports, but to a lesser extent.

Where I disagree with Ian is that developers finally got past those features and started to treat DS like GBA2. Many of the best DS games just have a more thoughtful, less eager approach to using the new interfaces in the context of both traditional and new game designs. While I have some complaints with the DS Zelda games, they are in fact excellent examples of how to integrate new interface features with familiar, deep game designs.

Regarding the 3DS, it is quite likely that many of the early games will be gimmicky crap, as developers rush to get product on the market before they fully understand the game design possibilities associated with the new features. It happened with DS and Wii, and it will happen again. It's part of the cycle at this point, as long as Nintendo keeps pushing boundaries like this. If you are really concerned about the initial crop of games, don't buy the system until it is more mature.

[GearBoxClock]

With any console, much off the opening salvo of games will be attempts to show off the cool new tech.