Author Topic: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda (Read 41551 times)

mantidor · « **Reply #50 on:** March 15, 2006, 04:25:59 PM »

Mario mentions exactly my point, changing bow aiming should happen along with a whole change of the enemies you shoot. Besides, what a waste, bow with the remote could be done also using the depth detection, and you could actually pull the controller like you'd pull a real bow, affecting the distance and speed of the arrow.

RiskyChris · « **Reply #51 on:** March 15, 2006, 04:32:01 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Mario mentions exactly my point, changing bow aiming should happen along with a whole change of the enemies you shoot. Besides, what a waste, bow with the remote could be done also using the depth detection, and you could actually pull the controller like you'd pull a real bow, affecting the distance and speed of the arrow.

And then you'd whine about normally digital controls being spoiled by inherently inaccurate systems such as "how much depth is enough" for firing an arrow.

What was the last zelda game after LTTP that requires insanely precise bow and arrow usage such that the revmote would present a significant advantage? None.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #52 on:** March 15, 2006, 04:32:33 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Mario mentions exactly my point, changing bow aiming should happen along with a whole change of the enemies you shoot. Besides, what a waste, bow with the remote could be done also using the depth detection, and you could actually pull the controller like you'd pull a real bow, affecting the distance and speed of the arrow.

Four posts ago, you were unloading a pile of pessimism and disdain which would make Ian blush with envy...

...and NOW you're making suggestions as to how the Revmote could have been better used with TP?

Huh?

mantidor · « **Reply #53 on:** March 15, 2006, 05:00:19 PM »

"And then you'd whine about normally digital controls being spoiled by inherently inaccurate systems such as "how much depth is enough" for firing an arrow.

What was the last zelda game after LTTP that requires insanely precise bow and arrow usage such that the revmote would present a significant advantage? None."

I never said that it should be precise, and the first person aiming is precise enough if used with the remote. Its about the inmersion, Miyamoto said that in games like LttP you didnt press a button to move a lever, you actually grabbed the lever and pull it, is the same in this case, the puzzles and enemies would never require insane precision, but the added inmersion, interactivity with the world and gameplay posibilities for arrows with varying speed and angles would make the gameplay experience better. The game would never require the player to throw an arrow a few Km/h faster than the previous arrow shooted, Things can be completly intuitive for the player, but probably a pain in the ass for the developer who has to program it, but hey, the remote and the new "intuitive" ways of playing was Nintendo's idea in the first place.

"Four posts ago, you were unloading a pile of pessimism and disdain which would make Ian blush with envy...

...and NOW you're making suggestions as to how the Revmote could have been better used with TP?

Huh?"

Im not making suggestions about TP, Im making suggestions for the Zelda game that will be made for the revolution, implementing this on TP would be stupid because it would be just a shiny new way of shooting arrows. Unless they add puzzles and enemies that are related to varying speeds and angles of arrows, which again would be another slap for the GC version.

The remote functionality should be implemented in a Zelda game made from the ground up for the Revolution, not crammed in a last gen game thats constructed around a traditional way of playing games. I cant say this enough.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #54 on:** March 15, 2006, 05:03:40 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Im not making suggestions about TP, Im making suggestions for the Zelda game that will be made for the revolution, implementing this on TP would be stupid because it would be just a shiny new way of shooting arrows. Unless they add puzzles and enemies that are related to varying speeds and angles of arrows, which again would be another slap for the GC version.

The remote functionality should be implemented in a Zelda game made from the ground up for the Revolution, not crammed in a last gen game thats constructed around a traditional way of playing games. I cant say this enough.

Fair enough, and I'm not trying to rag on you, but you're confusing me as to where you stand on the issue.

Frankly, I don't see arrow/hookshot/boomerang/slingshot/wolf pounce aiming as warranting being upset about the addition of Rev control. It'll be a nice preview for how the controller handles, but that alone isn't enough to justify Rev "support".

Are we sure that this is all we can expect?

mantidor · « **Reply #55 on:** March 15, 2006, 05:13:09 PM »

"Are we sure that this is all we can expect?"

No, of course not, thats why Ill wait and see, but Nintendo thinks this is good enough reason to delay the game and to deny their GC fanbase a complete product, which worries me because I dont think that TP will be that much better with the remote, and as a GC owner I feel cheated which make all pessimistic right now.

Mario · « **Reply #56 on:** March 15, 2006, 05:17:20 PM »

Basically there's no point putting Revolution controls in this, unless it's substantially different to playing it on GC, and in that case it should be a whole new game.

trip1eX · « **Reply #57 on:** March 15, 2006, 06:00:50 PM »

Hey you don't have to play it on the REv. Why are you guys whining about this? You can play just on the GC and pretend it has no Rev controls.

***************
Some of you will whine no matter which way the cards fall.

1. Zelda only launched on the 'cube. Nintendo are idiots for releasing their big franchise on a dead platform. They have no business sense and that's why they are in last place.

2. Keep promise to 'cube owners, but also position the title to help sell Revolutions. Gall damnit, they are delaying a game and disappointing 'cube owners. The functionality they add might mean some different content in there that's only played on the Rev. They'll have to do 2 versions. If it's just just sword swinging that would be dumb. OMG. WtF. We're not Nintendo fans any longer. This will just make the Revolution seem old. No wonder they are in last place.

3. Nintendo positions Zelda:TP for just a Rev release. What a bunch of liars. I have no faith in them. They promised us it would be out on the 'Cube and now they lied. Their promises for the Revolution are just bunch of lies too. No wonder they are in last place in America.

This is the kind of thinking some folks on this board exhibit. If you're always looking for the half-empty cup then you'll always find it.

Caliban · « **Reply #58 on:** March 15, 2006, 06:03:16 PM »

Oh what a bunch of cry babies these forums have developed. A few months without any useful info on anything Zelda or REV related and they all go haywire just because of one tiny infinitesimal bit about something that supposedly is coming out in 8 months. Relaaaaaaaaaaaaax! Chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiil! And enjoy what you already have! Me? oh, I can't wait for the new Zerda and ReVo but you won't see me being a Maury's histerical female that can't find who impregnated her among 30 man lol.

IceCold · « **Reply #59 on:** March 15, 2006, 06:03:33 PM »

Nintendo screwed themselves when they announced it for the GCN..

ruby_onix · « **Reply #60 on:** March 15, 2006, 06:03:52 PM »

Sooo... Twilight Princess has shifted from being the GameCube's swan song, to the final nail in it's coffin. Or maybe it's both. Good to know. I was wondering what was going claim that second honor.

Quote
Were people bent out of shape when Zelda DX could be played on a regular GB, but got the extras if you played on the GBC?

People complained about paying good money to buy Link's Awakening, only to have it become obsolete and be replaced by Link's Awakening DX, a game whose "most important feature" was that it was enhanced for a just-released system which most people didn't have yet.

Quote
“I told [the development staff] that we really don’t need any story behind this new Super Mario Bros. at all. I have narrowed down the whole story to about half of what my team originally came up with. Peach is kidnapped, Mario has to go and rescue her from Bowser and the Koopa Kids. That’s about all you need to know for the story!" he laughs.

Shigeru Miyamoto: Developers don't want deep storylines.

Takashi Tezuka: *writes two sentences of plot*

Shigeru Miyamoto: I said... Developers don't want deep storylines. *grabs an eraser*

Caliban · « **Reply #61 on:** March 15, 2006, 06:07:41 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix

Shigeru Miyamoto: Developers don't want deep storylines.

Takashi Tezuka: *writes two sentences of plot*

Shigeru Miyamoto: I said... Developers don't want deep storylines. *grabs an eraser*

LMAO! Half a sentence would be enough for a Mario game.

Pale · « **Reply #62 on:** March 15, 2006, 06:22:29 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
Sooo... Twilight Princess has shifted from being the GameCube's swan song, to the final nail in it's coffin. Or maybe it's both. Good to know. I was wondering what was going claim that second honor.

Quote
Were people bent out of shape when Zelda DX could be played on a regular GB, but got the extras if you played on the GBC?

People complained about paying good money to buy Link's Awakening, only to have it become obsolete and be replaced by Link's Awakening DX, a game whose "most important feature" was that it was enhanced for a just-released system which most people didn't have yet.

Because making two copies of a game is EXACTLY the same as making one copy of a game....

I really don't understand either side of this debate. It is an added feature... not even a substitute... ADDED... I'm sorry mr. horse.

RiskyChris · « **Reply #63 on:** March 15, 2006, 06:25:07 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix

Shigeru Miyamoto: Developers don't want deep storylines.

Takashi Tezuka: *writes two sentences of plot*

Shigeru Miyamoto: I said... Developers don't want deep storylines. *grabs an eraser*

LMAO! Half a sentence would be enough for a Mario game.

Ha... "Mario is missing!"

=D

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #64 on:** March 15, 2006, 06:35:03 PM »

Mantidor, you still realize that it will be playable on Gamecube, right? With a Gamecube controller? Or on Rev with a revmote or a GC controller?
It's not as if it's remote only, you have the OPTION to use either. I think it's excellent.
I'll just be pissed if they didn't improve on every other aspect of the game during the interval, to make it flawless. But I can't imagine that some altered programming and reworking would take all that time.

PaLaDiN · « **Reply #65 on:** March 15, 2006, 07:32:03 PM »

You guys remember that one presentation? Miyamoto obviously upset the tea table that had Mario's plot on it. The way it happens in my imagination is he strides into the room with that E3 Master Sword in hand and, in the blink of an eye, slices the table and plot neatly in half while screaming something cool in Japanese. And then he glares at everybody in the room till they all look away, then he leaves in dignified silence to tend to his garden.

Anyway, I'm undecided on this issue. Need to know more about the Zelda Rev controls.

ruby_onix · « **Reply #66 on:** March 15, 2006, 08:03:21 PM »

Link's Awakening DX was a case of double-dipping by putting out recycled content with an optional revolutionary feature.

The Advance store in the Oracle games was a case of deliberately withholding content in order to reward those who buy certain hardware. (This was also just about the only thing that "connectivity" ever offered.)

Twilight Princess is a case of the GameCube being brain-dead with a respirator and a feeding tube, and Nintendo saying "Hold on! It still has some life in it. There are still some things that only it can do. Amazing things! Wait for it. Wait for it. A little longer. Oh by the way, other devices can do this task. Do it better even. Wait for it. Wait for it. Hey, wait a minute, where are you going?"

And the last one is made even more amusing by the fact that everyone saw it coming, and most people even seemed to think it made sense, and were warming up to the idea, but Nintendo swore up and down that this wasn't the case, and made fools of the people who claimed to have inside information. And now the joke's on Nintendo.

BTW, just in case I need to say it, I don't really have a problem with the three tactics mentioned above.

ruby_onix · « **Reply #67 on:** March 15, 2006, 08:39:52 PM »

BTW, there's another complaint that GameCube owners might have that I don't think has been addressed yet.

Twilight Princess was in development for three years, with an existing game engine no less. And a couple months before it was set to come out, indications are that they hadn't even written the plot yet. Which is typical for Nintendo, and is exactly the sort of thing that was wrong with Wind Waker.

Then they delayed the game for a year, and we were led to believe that they were actually going to spend this entire time building content, which is so refreshing unlike Nintendo, and would apparently make Twilight Princess an unprecedently grand experience, not just within Nintendo, but the entire videogame world.

So, how much time does it take to implement Revmote control, break an entire videogame design, and then fix it again?

Nephilim · « **Reply #68 on:** March 15, 2006, 09:18:13 PM »

who cares, people like rereleases
go have a look at ign with there review of metal gear solid 3 LE
added a new camera view, 2 nes roms and a boss mode, pal expert mode... suddenly its godlike and worth rebuying

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #69 on:** March 15, 2006, 10:40:54 PM »

I personally believe this has potential to be a great way to show Revolutions potential if implemented correctly. There is no doubt in my mind that the controls will be just as, if not more solid, in TP with the GC controller as previous consoles. This added feature of Revolution control could potentially show people how archaic the current controllers are when it comes to immersion and prescision control within an already great game like TP. Granted this all depends on how it is implemented, but until we have played the game I think it is silly to condemn Nintendo.

wandering · « **Reply #70 on:** March 15, 2006, 10:47:08 PM »

This is excellent news. Not sure how people are construing it to be bad, let alone suddenly losing interest in zelda/the rev. You guys are like the people who complain about classic movies getting 5.1 mixes even when the original mono is included on the disc. But to each his own.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #71 on:** March 15, 2006, 11:29:16 PM »

Mario:
So there's going to be two difficulties... easy free aiming with the revmote, or clumsy slower aiming with the GC stick. Why even bother playing the GC version? Are they going to make the enemies harder to accompany this new control scheme? They are juggling fire here.

Look at Wind Waker. Do you think Nintendo will do anything to make TP challenging in any form?

Paladin:
Anyway, I'm undecided on this issue. Need to know more about the Zelda Rev controls.

Would you be upset if it turned out TP includes minigames you can play online?

PaLaDiN · « **Reply #72 on:** March 16, 2006, 12:21:21 AM »

Don't you even joke about it.

Fro · « **Reply #73 on:** March 16, 2006, 03:26:12 AM »

Considering 3 or 4 people at Retro Studios rigged up Metroid Prime 2 to work with the Revolution controller in about 2 weeks, I think the over 100 people, maybe 200 people on Team Zelda can handle adding Revolution control while properly "finishing" the game at the same time. Especially with the additional year of time to work on it.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #74 on:** March 16, 2006, 07:16:13 AM »

One thing about Link's Awakening that's different than this is that Link's Awakening DX came out five years after the original game. That's a lifetime in game years and I think that makes a key difference.

I agree that Nintendo make a mistake in how they approached this. We were all in a funk about the Cube and then at E3 Nintendo surprised the crap out of us. "It's okay. We know the Cube isn't doing too well but we've got this game to make up for all of it. This is going to be the ultimate Cube game." They didn't literally say that but that's how we all interpreted it. Then they delayed it but said that it was to make it better and we all thought that was disappointing but okay. But now I think it's pretty clear they delayed it for the Rev or at least that's why it's THIS delayed. This isn't the big awesome Cube game anymore. It's a trojan horse to try to sell us a new console. It feels like the lied to us. Maybe they weren't at the time and things changed but the way things were handled there was a real lack of honesty. I think we're all a little sick of Nintendo telling us one thing and then doing another.

It's a lot like the Wind Waker graphics situation. Things probably would have been fine if Nintendo didn't show us that tech demo which gave us a completely different idea of what Zelda would look like on the Rev. That's why there was such an outrage at the time. It felt like they fooled us. They either pulled a switcheroo or they didn't realize they were which means they're DUMB which isn't good either.

Though I'm not sure how Nintendo should have handled this. I don't think telling us last year that they were delaying Zelda a whole year to add Rev functionality us Cube owners can't even access with forking over a couple hundred bucks would have gone over well at any time. In other words they probably shouldn't have done this period.

Personally I see a flaw in their plan, or at least that it won't work on me. I've been pretty starved for console games lately. Had Nintendo released Zelda earlier I would have bought it then and by the time the Rev launched I would have finished the game and been bored again and then might have bought a Rev at launch. But now I won't because I don't have to to get my Nintendo console gaming fix. I can buy Zelda for my Gamecube and play that instead of spending more money to get a Rev. Zelda can occupy my time long enough that I might be able to hold out for a special edition colour or a price cut or wait for a specific non-launch game.

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Author Topic: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda (Read 41551 times)