Post by: nemo_83 on August 18, 2006, 03:47:38 PM
And what about MS' "first-person" controller?
The DS is like a semi-truck and the PSP is like a retarded kid on a bike
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 18, 2006, 04:11:37 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on August 18, 2006, 04:28:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Lol that comparison between DS and PSP is hilarious. In regards to the $99, I think that would be a huge mistake and would make no sense. To sell the Wii less than the DS lite could end up hurting the DS lite, not only that but that would be bare bones only. No extra Wii-motes, no packaged game, and a variety of other things. I still hold on to my opinion that the best price point is 200-230$ bundled with accessories.
I think it would be a smart idea to offer the Wii for $99 considering the hardware (the developer even suggested they could still turn a profit). It would come with one remote, one nunchuck, and a free copy of Wii Sports I suspect. Let's say for twenty dollars more you can have a second remote and be playing tennis with your friends out of the box.
If Sony is going to lower the price of the PSP then the DS will likely receive a price drop.
The grand package for Wii could be $150 with two remotes, one nunchuck, Wii sports, and Zelda TP Wii.
Starting at a low price will make the system truly different from the others. It will also allow them to build a base for a larger console in two to three years.
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 18, 2006, 04:28:18 PM
I don't think it's likely that it'll be packaged with two controllers, but I guess it could happen. I think most people are expecting too much.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 18, 2006, 04:36:25 PM
-2 Wiimotes and 2 nunchuck attachments
-Classic controller
-2 free downloadable games
-Wii Sports and demo disk
That would be the perfect package for a 200-230$ price range and would avoid pricing the Wii close to NDS Lite.
P.S. I'm listening to the link as we speak and those guys do not strike me as the most knowledgeable bunch. What really lost my respect for them when one of them was saying Wii and Xbox are basically the same when it comes to graphical capabilities (Not to mention one of them bashing retro games!). Not only that but one of them says PS3 has better software than Wii (which he says has not one piece of software that has or is going to be announced he is excited software.
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on August 18, 2006, 04:43:42 PM
Post by: Edfishy on August 18, 2006, 05:00:55 PM
Post by: Kairon on August 18, 2006, 05:04:11 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 18, 2006, 06:01:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Please PLEASE Wireless Lan Support! I'll even give up on one-disc support as long as there's wireless lan!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Wireless Ian? Constant negativity wirelessly fed through your Wii (maybe 24/7) is a horrifying thought indeed
Post by: stevey on August 18, 2006, 06:10:46 PM
Wasn't both confirmed back in 05...
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 18, 2006, 06:51:42 PM
That being said, $99 is a bit too low for me. I don't think it would hurt the DS sales, because I think people have come to expect a simple fact: portable is more expensive the home always. Just look at DVD players, Computers, handheld gaming systems (PSP/compared to PS2 and DS/compared to Gamecube.)
If Nintendo can in fact sell this system for $99 and make a profit or a slight loss. It would be better marketing to include 2 controllers and Wii Sports for $150-175...possible at most $199.
The reasoning for this is simple: impulse buys. It is easier to get a non-gamer to buy a single package and get basically everything he would need to play. One game, One extra Controller, and the system. A nice little package that supplies everything you need, at a reasonable price. Looking at both Xbox 360 and PS3, spending $299-599 on a console, and still needing to buy games and an extra controller is quite intimidating for a someone picking it up after playing one or two fun games.
The only problem with a Wii bundle is that it prevents the retail stores from creating their own bundles...bundles they make lots of money from. Though I suppose they can still throw in a SD Card, Another Extra Control, Some Virtual Console Games, and perhaps another game or not to bring the price to: $250-$300. Still that pushes the Wii way out of the price range retailers and even Nintendo wants their system.
Final note:
If Nintendo did sell the system for $99 I would have a whole extra $100 to buy accessories and games. Which means instead of spending the money on 1 or 2 games and a single extra controller. I would definately get 2 games perhaps 3, and 3-4 controllers. Nintendo would get the same amount of money from me, and actually be making more profit.
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 18, 2006, 07:23:08 PM
I can't see anything but a shortage for the Wii after launch, and that means eBay will run them VERY high.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 18, 2006, 07:28:55 PM
Personally, I hope there isn't a shortage. I hope on day one Nintendo is able to launch with 5 million Wii's split between Japan and America, with more shipments available before Christmas.
I want Nintendo to meet their predicted March sales figures of Wiis by Christmas. That would be amazing.
Post by: BlkPaladin on August 18, 2006, 07:40:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
Among other debates over whether the system is a peripheral, is the Wii like the DS; will there be a Wii2 in two years (when MS launches their next console).
And what about MS' "first-person" controller?
The DS is like a semi-truck and the PSP is like a retarded kid on a bike
The "first person" controller, is Microsoft's Live Vision, I just finished skimming through Gamasutra's coverage of it. (Game Developer's website.) It seems like a good idea on the the top but a big down side to it is the physical connection to the the game is lost. And it seems an artificial connection, so some of the immersion is lost. Nintendo helps create some more immersion by adding the personal speaker, and the numchuck assembly. But time will tell but I doubt that it is a Wii killer that Gamasutra is hinting at.
Here is the article.
As for the $99.00 I doubt it.
Post by: BigJim on August 18, 2006, 07:42:14 PM
In the unlikely scenario they could sell a core system at $99 immediately, since they are going to sell out anyway at first due to the hardcores, they should value-add the hell out of the package and sell for $199. A second Wiimote, Classic controller, Wii Sports, and the wireless adapter or DVD accessory. Basically cram it full with everything you'd need.
But I don't take the $99 thing literally. So it's moot. I still think we're just going to see a system, 1 Wiimote and MAYBE WiiSports for $199.
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 18, 2006, 07:48:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Smash: That may be good for you, but you are also denying others for a nice Christmas Wii-prise and such just to make a profit. That kinda sucks.
I'll probably sell them to friends at cost, realistically.
Ebay is only if everyone already secured one.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 18, 2006, 09:06:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Smash: That may be good for you, but you are also denying others for a nice Christmas Wii-prise and such just to make a profit. That kinda sucks.
I'll probably sell them to friends at cost, realistically.
Ebay is only if everyone already secured one.
I am going to not only sell Wiis on ebay but also the PS3 (I plan to get 3 of each). I figure if I am going to be camping out for both systems for around 15 hrs then I should be able to do whatever I want with them!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 18, 2006, 09:13:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
The context didn't sound like they had specific information. It just sounded like, "they can sell it dirt cheap."
In the unlikely scenario they could sell a core system at $99 immediately, since they are going to sell out anyway at first due to the hardcores, they should value-add the hell out of the package and sell for $199. A second Wiimote, Classic controller, Wii Sports, and the wireless adapter or DVD accessory. Basically cram it full with everything you'd need.
But I don't take the $99 thing literally. So it's moot. I still think we're just going to see a system, 1 Wiimote and MAYBE WiiSports for $199.
Yeah I noticed that after listening to the complete thing, what bothered me the most is how they seemed quite anti-Wii and Pro-PS3 with little to back up their claims. In response to your prediction of the Wii package, you may very well be right, at least in regards to the 200$ price point. I still have a gut feeling that they will at least include two wiimotes and nunchuck attachments in order to promote it as a "We" system for multiplayer games. It seems to be a given that they will also have the classic controller if Smash Brothers is going to use it. But we shall see, regardless I'm getting it
.
Post by: nemo_83 on August 19, 2006, 12:16:06 AM
I also don't see a $700 game (ever) on PS3.
Post by: ShyGuy on August 19, 2006, 12:36:24 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 19, 2006, 01:00:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
How 'bout a $400 game on the 360? or a $800 game on the PC?
That is what I was thinking. Most individuals buy a system for more than one game, and the "fun" they get from their games is what determines whether the price of entry (the console) was worth it.
Post by: nemo_83 on August 19, 2006, 01:19:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
How 'bout a $400 game on the 360? or a $800 game on the PC?
I ain't getting a 360 until Halo 3 and a price drop (and that new controller of course).
Post by: Mario on August 19, 2006, 01:31:07 AM
Post by: Darkheart on August 19, 2006, 05:30:42 AM
Post by: Mario on August 19, 2006, 05:52:40 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 19, 2006, 05:54:32 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 19, 2006, 06:02:24 AM
It is important to note my analogy for buying a system for 1 or 2 games is based on the idea of a Non-gamer or a gamer that dislikes Nintendo trying the system and enjoying it. They probably have only tried 1 or 2 games that they know they like and therefore are only buying it for that experience right then. $250 is too much. $199 and needing to buy the games may be too much. $150 would be perfect...but that isn't going to happen.
I hope I am wrong and the price is lower but the lowest I can see the Wii launching at is $175.00
Post by: Mario on August 19, 2006, 06:07:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
*shrug* I still don't think the base cost of the Wii is close to $99. When I'm at my computer l'll find my post about why l thought it couldn't be. l might consider it if the Wii came in a Cube's case, wired Controller, no sensor bar, etc. Not Counting R&D cost you still have to develop manufacturing facilities. all which cost Money.
Another thing is all the advertising they will have to do for it since it's a new (soon to be current) product. I don't think they are spending a lot on GC advertising now and that's another reason it gets away with being so cheap.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 19, 2006, 06:09:00 AM
So Nintendo isn't going to confuse people and include the classic controller shell. BUT, I do agree 2 Wii controllers is a true must.
Post by: SixthAngel on August 19, 2006, 06:24:19 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 19, 2006, 07:13:35 AM
Quote
This100 idea seems like ridiculous speculation from people who don't realize it is not a gamecube with a remote.
QFT
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 19, 2006, 07:40:08 AM
I think we can safely say the "750k Wiis" rumor is BS.
Post by: Ghisy on August 19, 2006, 07:59:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
It's also rumored that Sony will ship 700k Wii's to the US for this year.
Am I the only one who finds that piece of info disturbing?
Post by: Ceric on August 19, 2006, 08:04:38 AM
Post by: Magik on August 19, 2006, 08:10:15 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 19, 2006, 09:27:35 AM
2 Million Japan
1.5 Million US
1.5 Million Europe
With a very distinct possibility that US will get .5 million more, and Europe less.
Nintendo already knows its production numbers are going to be greater than Sony, and Nintendo will dominate Japan. Nintendo must make a solid showing in the US early or it will lose its American 3rd party support.
The more I think about this report the more I realize it is mostly filled with completely inaccurate information.
$99 although nice is insanely low, and just barely higher than current Gamecube. Nintendo wants to make money on this system, they NEED to make money on this system, a loss is just completely unacceptable. When Nintendo stated they didn't expect to see a profit from Wii revenues this coming quarter...I think it is because they are planning to spend major money on advertising, and need to still recoup the R&D on the system. Which means each unit must bring in more than it costs to make it.
$199 is definately the targetted price for the Wii...the question is will Nintendo get more aggressive and go even lower? We will have to wait and see.
Post by: 31 Flavas on August 19, 2006, 04:37:54 PM
QuoteOk... correct me if i'm wrong, the one guy that was asked about PS3 really didn't seem too interested in the PS3 except for MG4 and thus... didn't want to pay $700 for the game. Or in otherwords, the $600 system price + tax + 1 game.
Originally posted by: nemo_83
I don't see a $250 game at launch for Wii.
I also don't see a $700 game (ever) on PS3.
Post by: TrueNerd on August 20, 2006, 09:52:10 AM
And if Metroid Prime 3 was only playable on the $600 PS3, I'd get it. Same goes for Twilight Princess. I'd bet some of you wouldn't be able to resist either.
Post by: Requiem on August 20, 2006, 10:36:12 AM
It's not worth it. Sure, I'd want to play the game real bad, but I'm in college and money isn't something that's really abundant.
Post by: Ceric on August 20, 2006, 10:46:46 AM
Post by: JonLeung on August 20, 2006, 12:22:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TrueNerd
$199 should be the launch price as that's still a bargain in comparison to the alternatives and drop it to $149 next year to help combat Halo 3 and GTA4.
Next year? I thought Microsoft was still hoping to release Halo 3 on the same day as the PS3?
Post by: Magik on August 20, 2006, 01:49:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeungQuote
Originally posted by: TrueNerd
$199 should be the launch price as that's still a bargain in comparison to the alternatives and drop it to $149 next year to help combat Halo 3 and GTA4.
Next year? I thought Microsoft was still hoping to release Halo 3 on the same day as the PS3?
It was more of big talk rather than anything concrete.
And I also don't think we will be seeing any price drops so soon. Halo 3 and GTA 4 will be out in '07 so a price drop so soon doesn't make much sense unless the sales are very poor.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 20, 2006, 01:55:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MagikQuote
Originally posted by: JonLeungQuote
Originally posted by: TrueNerd
$199 should be the launch price as that's still a bargain in comparison to the alternatives and drop it to $149 next year to help combat Halo 3 and GTA4.
Next year? I thought Microsoft was still hoping to release Halo 3 on the same day as the PS3?
It was more of big talk rather than anything concrete.
And I also don't think we will be seeing any price drops so soon. Halo 3 and GTA 4 will be out in '07 so a price drop so soon doesn't make much sense unless the sales are very poor.
I agree I don't see any price drops in the near future, Xbox 360 is still selling well and GTA4 along with Halo 3 will be out to help bump sales. Unlike Nintendo, MS is losing alot of money on the Xbox 360 system, so a price drop would be stupid if there is no real need for it, all it would do is create a larger hole to dig themselves out of.
Post by: Garnee on August 20, 2006, 03:33:57 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 20, 2006, 03:40:22 PM
Requiem: I agree. I wouldn't buy any game system above $250. I can't afford it and would have to wait for price cuts. That even includes Nintendo systems, which have been in my life since the SNES. And if Nintendo made it an effort to increase prices of games, consoles, controlers and such I would have to give up gaming because of price.
Post by: nemo_83 on August 20, 2006, 03:44:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Garnee
Selling the Wii for 100 bucks is absolutely ridiculous. Consumers will think they're getting an inferior product.
it is an inferior product.
and if Nintendo can sell it at $99 and still turn profit then they better sell it at $99; i'm not a fan of being overcharged. yes, it does make it seem like a clunker when sitting beside the $599 PS3, but hey, that's Nintendo's fault for taking this strategy.
if i took my GCN to EB to sell they probably wouldn't give me fourty bucks.
Post by: Ceric on August 20, 2006, 04:10:48 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 20, 2006, 04:59:39 PM
Post by: Deguello on August 20, 2006, 05:05:53 PM
Quote
and if Nintendo can sell it at $99 and still turn profit then they better sell it at $99; i'm not a fan of being overcharged. yes, it does make it seem like a clunker when sitting beside the $599 PS3, but hey, that's Nintendo's fault for taking this strategy.
Nemo, if you honestly believe this, you are an idiot. Seriously.
Post by: Pryopizm on August 20, 2006, 05:06:14 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on August 20, 2006, 05:07:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
if i took my GCN to EB to sell they probably wouldn't give me fourty bucks.
lol yeah coz Wii is just a GameCube dur dur waggle wand, some extras.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 20, 2006, 05:36:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
They more I think about it the more I think they couldn't do it. We haven't even consider what cut the sellers get of the price tag. Let me rephrase. If Nintendo sold the Wii at $99 I'm sure they have to make that up somewhere. There is only 2 places that could come from. Licensing fees and higher MSRP. So what do you want a very reasonable initial price for a system or a very unreasonable price for the games?
You are right Ceric, I also believe that selling it for so low would make the innovative controls seem like a sparkling innovation. Yes it is perception but when Nintendo is touting the Wii as something that will be innovating gaming and yet sells it for dirt cheap, that is sending a CLEAR message inferiority (there is more to a system than the graphical powers when it comes to how inferior or superior it is).
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 20, 2006, 05:50:48 PM
And I could give up all my worldy pssessions and join a cult in hopes of catching a spiritual ride on a passing comet, but I won't.
and I think you get my point.
Post by: nemo_83 on August 20, 2006, 06:06:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: DeguelloQuote
and if Nintendo can sell it at $99 and still turn profit then they better sell it at $99; i'm not a fan of being overcharged. yes, it does make it seem like a clunker when sitting beside the $599 PS3, but hey, that's Nintendo's fault for taking this strategy.
Nemo, if you honestly believe this, you are an idiot. Seriously.
You guys are saying that if Nintendo could sell it at $99 you would rather they gouge you in the ass and charge a hundred dollars more than it costs them to make it.
Even at the more likely production cost of $150, you still want Nintendo to screw you and charge you two hundred?
And I'm the idiot?
Post by: Grubdog on August 20, 2006, 06:26:06 PM
Post by: JonLeung on August 20, 2006, 06:31:53 PM
However, at a more realistic $199, I would still buy it, and Nintendo would be better off doing so. Nintendo knows the hype is there, if they wanted to push it to $249, I bet they would still be really hot this Christmas.
Post by: Invincible Donkey Kong on August 20, 2006, 06:53:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grubdog
Yes.
Ditto.
Post by: nemo_83 on August 20, 2006, 11:20:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ReggieFAQuote
Originally posted by: Grubdog
Yes.
Ditto.
While MS and Sony sell consoles at hundreds in losses (mostly their own sloppy fault-- blu laser) you guys are saying that if Nintendo can sell the Wii (and break even or even turn profit) between $99-149 that you would rather they inflate the price fifty to a hundred dollars just to squeeze money out of...you?
The thing is like a third the size of PS3. It has a fifth of the RAM of 360. There is no harddrive. No wacky blu lasers or multi cored blunders driving up costs. It is cleaned up GCN with 96 MB of RAM, emulation software I can thieve right now if I want, and the online hardware they should have had in 2001. The whole purpose of the Wii is to push a peripheral that was planned for GameCube but couldn't be launched because not even the second coming could save the lunch box's reputation at that point (and then the tech would be looked at as a failure).
I'm not alone in believing that either. Developers believe that. And obviously, journalist believe it as well. I'm trying to look at the positive ($99 price according to developers) and you guys are calling me an idiot for thinking Nintendo should charge what it cost them to make their console. With such a low starting price they can use the Wii to expand their market while prepping the real thing in two to three years.
Will cheapness and imagination win out against power and money in the console sector like it did with the portable market? We may find out as soon as this fall.
You should keep in mind that third parties are looking at putting their games across three platforms next gen; PS3, 360, and PC. Few will spend money downgrading. They never spent the time or money to give GameCube proper ports when the console was adequetly powered.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on August 21, 2006, 01:07:24 AM
Quote
The whole purpose of the Wii is to push a peripheral that was planned for GameCube but couldn't be launched because not even the second coming could save the lunch box's reputation at that point (and then the tech would be looked at as a failure).
Good lord, where do you get this constant stream of bullshit from? Do you live with Ian?
Post by: Deguello on August 21, 2006, 01:15:01 AM
If you believe more technology went into making the DS than the Wii, so much so that the Wii should be significantly cheaper than it, you are absolutely loopy.
You are operating under a big list of great assumptions on your part.
1. You know how much the Wii costs to manufacture, and that it somehow costs in the realm of $100.
2. Nintendo is somehow obligated to sell at a tremendous loss just because their competitors do.
3. Size of product somehow dictates cost of product.
4. You probably also assume the Wii features the specs from a list of specs that has been repeatedly rebuked for simple problems as the presence of GDDR in place of the much widely advertised MoSys.
None of those are true. Yet you claim them all as fact and act like Nintendo is making a big mistake by offering the Wii under what you assume it costs them without any sort of source whatsoever to back up your claim. And you also continue to use troll-type language (lunchbox HURK HURK HURKITY HURK) that makes me question if you seriously enjoy posting at PGC.
Post by: Grubdog on August 21, 2006, 02:17:56 AM
Post by: eljefe on August 21, 2006, 05:09:11 AM
170 is perfect. Close enough to 200 to be smart from a profit standpoint. Close enough to 150 to win over many impulse buyers. And on the surface it is quite a distance away from the 360 pricepoint.
I would actually like a base of 135 USD (just Wii & one nunchaku setup) then retailers can bundle there way up to the 200 range if they want to.
Post by: couchmonkey on August 21, 2006, 06:54:39 AM
Post by: getter77 on August 21, 2006, 07:03:31 AM
The way I see it, so long as the Wii is at least 20-30$ more expensive than the DS at any given time...Nintendo is acting wisely. From Reggie's last blurb...it is clear Nintendo understands the power and majesty of a WiiDs combo as opposed to a Wii60...or even just a 360.
150-175 is the magic number. If they want to be trailblazers, charging more or equal to the amount they have for pretty much every previous console isn't gonna cut it near as well with trying to tempt new people into gaming.
Otherwise check the old thread back when it was a kinder and gentler time round here...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 21, 2006, 08:02:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Deguello
Nemo... Seriously.
If you believe more technology went into making the DS than the Wii, so much so that the Wii should be significantly cheaper than it, you are absolutely loopy.
You are operating under a big list of great assumptions on your part.
1. You know how much the Wii costs to manufacture, and that it somehow costs in the realm of $100.
2. Nintendo is somehow obligated to sell at a tremendous loss just because their competitors do.
3. Size of product somehow dictates cost of product.
4. You probably also assume the Wii features the specs from a list of specs that has been repeatedly rebuked for simple problems as the presence of GDDR in place of the much widely advertised MoSys.
None of those are true. Yet you claim them all as fact and act like Nintendo is making a big mistake by offering the Wii under what you assume it costs them without any sort of source whatsoever to back up your claim. And you also continue to use troll-type language (lunchbox HURK HURK HURKITY HURK) that makes me question if you seriously enjoy posting at PGC.
Awesome points, we still do not know for sure how much Wii costs to produce and that just applies to the hardware. That does not take into consideration the cost of the Wiimote or whatever else they decide to include in the package. If I recall Nintendo has stated they could even lose some money on the Wii, so that leads to me to believe that this 99$ thing is crap. Not to mention the fact that GC is priced at 80-90$? What kind of image would that give the Wii if it was priced like 10 or 20$ more than GC? That would be a huge blunder, and like someone else stated, whether it makes sense or not people do equate price with quality.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 21, 2006, 08:45:37 AM
It's not even a "good" 7.9.
Post by: Ghisy on August 21, 2006, 08:54:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grubdog
If we adopt Nemos logic, then the PSP should be around $40.
And an iPod Nano would cost like 10 bucks!! haha (I would buy it at this price though!!)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 21, 2006, 09:17:49 AM
Quote
150-175 is the magic number. If they want to be trailblazers, charging more or equal to the amount they have for pretty much every previous console isn't gonna cut it near as well with trying to tempt new people into gaming.
If that is the "magic" number then why release at that price? Do you really think the "Non-gamers" and the "lapsed" gamers are really gonna be the ones lined up around the corner the night b4 launch to get their hands on a Wii?
If $150-$175 is the "magic" # then wouldn't you want to reserve that # until production is able to overcompensate for the demand of the product, you know like around the time sales start to slow down and you need a boost?
Post by: getter77 on August 21, 2006, 09:29:12 AM
A good release price is better than a bloated one with implied eventual relief(implied only to full blown gamers). Think of the PR battle to be waged if a 250 Wii fails to outsell a 600+ PS3 for instance...if people go ahead and write the Wii off from the start no price drop to 150 in a year is going to mean much to them...just like such matters didn't for the GC. All IMO of course.
Maybe I'm just cynical, but I don't think a new control style + cheaper than ever before price in absolute terms is a bad way to go in terms of opening the door wider for more people to get into gaming...and that IS the market Nintendo is aiming for primarily I think. 250 is still 250...and that price is less attractive by far than 150...ESPECIALLY considering the holiday rush shopping that'll soon be upon us.
If the DSL somehow got booted down to 99...well...I don't think it'd be unreasonable for the Wii to cost 130-150/170. I just don't like the traditional 200 price point unless they are truly cramming lots of stuff into it.
Post by: JonLeung on August 21, 2006, 09:31:17 AM
Considering that the competition is going to be between like $100-$400 more, the Wii is already a deal, especially if people love it as much as the hype suggests. You're getting what could potentitally be the best console for a lot less, yet this Christmas I'm sure they could sell all of the Wiis shipped at $200 - twice as much as some people seem to be suggesting that they could charge.
Price drops are weapons used against the competition. Expect price drops on following Christmases, the release of major games for other consoles, about the same time as their price drops, etc. One day a new Wii might sell for $99 - but if they started at that price, they wouldn't be able to go much lower, now could they?
Again, I'd love to pick up a Wii for $99 if possible myself (who does want to pay more?), but Nintendo certainly shouldn't sell it that low this soon - the demand is there to be able to sell it for more and no company looks away from profit.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 21, 2006, 09:35:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
Look, I'm sure Nintendo has these experts with their charts and graphs trying to come out with the perfect balance of supply and price to meet demand and make maximum profit.
Considering that the competition is going to be between like $100-$400 more, the Wii is already a deal, especially if people love it as much as the hype suggests. You're getting what could potentitally be the best console for a lot less, yet this Christmas I'm sure they could sell all of the Wiis shipped at $200 - twice as much as some people seem to be suggesting that they could charge.
Price drops are weapons used against the competition. Expect price drops on following Christmases, the release of major games for other consoles, about the same time as their price drops, etc. One day a new Wii might sell for $99 - but if they started at that price, they wouldn't be able to go much lower, now could they?
Again, I'd love to pick up a Wii for $99 if possible myself (who does want to pay more?), but Nintendo certainly shouldn't sell it that low this soon - the demand is there to be able to sell it for more and no company looks away from profit.
Exactly, also I think historically Nintendo has made little to no profit on their consoles, maybe even minor losses. So whatever price point they choose will probaly fall within the expected cost of the Wii hardware that is included.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 21, 2006, 09:42:36 AM
Post by: Neodymium on August 21, 2006, 09:46:47 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 21, 2006, 09:57:22 AM
Starting at $99 means thats what you will always pay for a Wii. I think its sad the most people here are more willing to pay 200 or more dollars for a new cellphone with features you'll more than likely never take advantage of and are not willing to pay $250 for a feature rich console that you will more than likely use most of the features. I mean looking at the cheapest plans $39.99 for 450 minutes thats about 7.5 hours. 1 game will more then likely get you more then that. So forget your cellphone and buy a Wii and 1 game a month. You'll thank me later.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 21, 2006, 10:18:30 AM
$170 doesn't look nearly as good as $149.99 as a US price point. And at $149.99 we are getting the system for over $100 cheaper than the Xbox 360 and what like $1,000 cheaper than the PS3?
Post by: Strell on August 21, 2006, 10:50:23 AM
And you will get to play with my motion-sensing wiimote in all sorts of sensual ways.
My technology is not minimal in any way, but it most certainly is an extension.
Touching is good. Do it some more.
Post by: getter77 on August 21, 2006, 01:04:21 PM
Can GAMING actually expand/grow/etc via a series of annual price drops? Afterall, that was Nintendo's entire point this time...not to play the contracting and bloating game of those gamers of the last several years that 360 and PS3 covet...but to just flat out increase the fold period. To get some new blood in there.
Ya can't give a dying patient some fresh blood at a matter of convenience down the line...ya give it ASAP so they can start to reap the benefits of it. So too with the gaming industry...I'd rather have 2 million (thin air number) gaming on a Wii from the initial mark that is priced cheaper than ever before(weakening the barrier keeping folk form gaming) instead of a million form the initial mark and maybe 500K after 1-2 years using the same old price structure that Nintendo has for years.
Post by: Ceric on August 21, 2006, 01:12:55 PM
$199 is what people are conditioned to pay for this type of electronic at launch and think it's reasonable. They are also now conditioned to expect a price cut. In the handheld market though it's gotten worse. People are now conditioned to expect a price drop and a revision. How many people have said that they were going to wait until the "real" DS was release? I like my DS and I like my Original GBA, (Best handheld design ever. I don't know why they didn't just rerelease it with a lit up screen.) That makes me in the minority. I won't be getting a DSLite until mine goes the way of the Dodo or I need a second unit like I did with the GBA, FF:CC and Four Swords.
Sort of rambled near the end there... Must be getting old...
Post by: getter77 on August 21, 2006, 01:37:22 PM
I'm sure there are tons of people who may never get around to getting a PS3, 360, or even a Wii if the launch price isn't "right for them, right now" Things tend to come up later, unexpected priority shifts, or just plain forgetting stuff. Wii shouldn't take a chance on cruel independent fate screwing them out of folk they were "sure" would jump on a cheap Wii price a year or 2 from now. They need to be assertive and say "We're here NOW DAMMIT! Ya can have fun and not have to worry about money so much. No need to tell yourself longingly "Maybe in 1-x years when it drops under 250/200". WE can enjoy ourselves NOW, not in some uncertain future world."
Post by: wandering on August 21, 2006, 01:59:22 PM
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you guys are saying that if Nintendo can sell the Wii (and break even or even turn profit) between $99-149 that you would rather they inflate the price fifty to a hundred dollars just to squeeze money out of...you?
[snip]
You should keep in mind that third parties are looking at putting their games across three platforms next gen; PS3, 360, and PC. Few will spend money downgrading. They never spent the time or money to give GameCube proper ports when the console was adequetly powered.
Did I step into a time warp? Is this 2005? Has Nintendo not promised that their system will be less than half the cost of the ps3? Does the Wii not have an unprecedented level of third party support, including devs that didn't support the cube but are now on board for the Wii? Does the Wii not have an incredible launch lineup that puts both the ps3 and 360 launch lineups to shame? Did I just dream all of this?
Post by: nemo_83 on August 21, 2006, 02:00:46 PM
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Originally posted by: Deguello
Nemo... Seriously.
If you believe more technology went into making the DS than the Wii, so much so that the Wii should be significantly cheaper than it, you are absolutely loopy.
You are operating under a big list of great assumptions on your part.
1. You know how much the Wii costs to manufacture, and that it somehow costs in the realm of $100.
2. Nintendo is somehow obligated to sell at a tremendous loss just because their competitors do.
3. Size of product somehow dictates cost of product.
4. You probably also assume the Wii features the specs from a list of specs that has been repeatedly rebuked for simple problems as the presence of GDDR in place of the much widely advertised MoSys.
None of those are true. Yet you claim them all as fact and act like Nintendo is making a big mistake by offering the Wii under what you assume it costs them without any sort of source whatsoever to back up your claim. And you also continue to use troll-type language (lunchbox HURK HURK HURKITY HURK) that makes me question if you seriously enjoy posting at PGC.
1. I'm going by what the developer told the journalist.
2. Sorry, it's a fact, Sony and MS use a strategy of selling hardware at losses greater in cost than the Wii costs to manufacture in hopes of turning profit on software. It doesn't ever seem to make them more money than Nintendo but they are trying to buy Nintendo's consumers and put the N out of business.
3. The size does dictate price. The DS and PSP cost what they cost because the companies have spent money shrinking down that hardware to a portable size. The Wii is a console so size doesn't scare consumers away (unless they are biased Japanese), thus spending money to make something small is not needed like it is in portables. With a console the insides come before the casing.
With PS3, there is a lot of sh1t in there, and that is why the casing is so large. It has to have a lot of cooling, it has a harddrive, it has ports out the ass, it has lots of RAM, it has HD support, etc. Do not sit there and try and say the Wii is comparable in power to either the PS3 or 360 because it is not. I know this because developers have told me personally.
4. Read that last sentence in number 3. We all hope the final hardware will have more of everything but that is all one can do is hope because a lot of people are saying the thing is already well into production.
Post by: ShyGuy on August 21, 2006, 02:01:01 PM
See what I did there? I insulted everyone so they would be mad at me and take the heat off Nemo for awhile. Aggro!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 21, 2006, 02:06:28 PM
THIS WEEK IS OFFICIALLY ZELDA HATE WEEK.
AUGUST 21, 2006
WE WILL NEVER FOGHAT
Post by: ShyGuy on August 21, 2006, 02:11:53 PM
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AUGUST 21, 2006
WE WILL NEVER FOGHAT
Sez you.
Slow ride! Take it easy!
Post by: wandering on August 21, 2006, 02:17:51 PM
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size doesn't scare consumers away (unless they are biased Japanese)
Oh, okay. Unless they are a large chunk of Nintendo's market.
Those damn Japanese and their small living quarters. If they don't want to live like pigs, why should Nintendo feed them any slop? Right?
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they are priced by what the market will bear.
Who cares what the market will bear? MY purchase is on the line here, and I'm part of the market, right?
...Of course, I'm going to get a Wii no matter what because I'm a diehard Nintendo fanboy...but still! I am entitled to a $99 price point because I'm dissapointed with Wii's graphics. And I am enraged at a hypothetical scenario in which Nintendo sells their hardware for signifigantly more than what it costs them to manufacture, even though I have no idea how much Wiis will cost to manufacture, what Wiis will retail for, or how much Nintendo has spent on research and development.
Post by: nemo_83 on August 21, 2006, 02:29:57 PM
My point was that the Japanese were all bitching about the size of the Xbox and 360 but they are going to still pick up the PS3 (even though it is the largest piece of mass produced gaming hardware since the Steel Battalion controller).
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 21, 2006, 02:33:12 PM
tHE INTERnet says you're not allowed to poast.
Post by: JonLeung on August 21, 2006, 02:43:06 PM
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Originally posted by: nemo_83
"Those damn Japanese and their small living quarters. If they don't want to live like pigs, why should Nintendo feed them any slop? Right?"
My point was that the Japanese were all bitching about the size of the Xbox and 360 but they are going to still pick up the PS3 (even though it is the largest piece of mass produced gaming hardware since the Steel Battalion controller).
Didn't someone (likely Kutaragi or Hirai, I'm guessing) say that people will work to afford it? I'm sure then it's not so much of a stretch to say that they will make room for it.
Sony also said the PS3 will replace the PC (*snicker*) so if anyone believes that load of bull, then they'll have the space they need after throwing out their computer.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 21, 2006, 02:58:40 PM
Post by: wandering on August 21, 2006, 07:16:41 PM
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My point was that the Japanese were all bitching about the size of the Xbox and 360 but they are going to still pick up the PS3 (even though it is the largest piece of mass produced gaming hardware since the Steel Battalion controller).
Will they, though? I'm sure they’re more interested in the ps3 than the 360 - it's more aesthetically pleasing, has games they would actually want to play, and is the successor to the most popular console in Japan. But size will be an issue - it's not like that was just some myth people cooked up to explain away the Japanese dislike of the 360. Apparently, space is such an issue over there that people are careful not to give others space-wasters, so much so that ridiculously expensive fruit baskets are common holiday-time gifts.
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I don't see a $250 game at launch for Wii.
Divide the cost of the console by the number of games you want. If you want 20 Wii games, and the Wii costs $200, and Wii games cost $50, each game will cost you $60 (hey, the same price as 360 and ps3 games!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 22, 2006, 04:32:24 AM
To assume that it is so simple takes out the individual companies desire out of the sales, its competition, and even personal pricing structures.
For instance, Nintendo (Until the Gamecube) has never sold a console at a loss. They don't do crap like that. So pricing the system, they did partially require a cost-plus system within researching what the market will bear, and in reality they probably had a desired price point from the beginning of designing the console they wanted to hit.
I believe Nintendo is going to take a very small loss this console as well. (Reason is because Nintendo stated in a stock meeting they didn't expect to make a profit from the Wiis this quarter.) That doesn't mean Nintendo won't price the system above cost in some territories. I am expecting Japan and Europe to actually be above cost. Around that $170 number or more...and America to get the ultra competitive $150 price point. Why? Just because that is how I would market the system. In Europe the Wii is already incredibly priced in comparison to the other systems...and in Japan the system will sell no matter what for many, many years.
