Topic: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?

[broodwars]

Paper Mario was one of literally two RPGs released for the N64.

No, it "literally" was not.  I can think of Quest 64; Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage, Hybrid Heaven, Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber, and Paper Mario just off the top of my head. I wouldn't even say it was one of "literally" two "good" RPGs released for the N64.

[Nile Boogie Returns]

Wii U Super amiibo bundle.

Wii U System + 5 amiibo - Villager, Mewtwo, Lucas, Little Mac and Peach.  Villager is a female deco, Little Mac is wire frame deco, Peach is Daisy deco, Lucas and Mewtwo are exclusive to this bundle.

Face it - people are already paying $100+ for figures.  Nintendo might as well get in on that action too.

There is some real genius in this. Not even kidding!

[Soren]

Much like how RPGs got flack from Nintendo fans during the PS1 days, shooters get crapped on.  They're brown and for bro-gamers.  So here we have something that has essentially no appeal at all to shooter fans on competing consoles.  The main characters are children that turn into squids and shoot paint.  Any superficial element of today's shooters that make them hip has been stripped away.

lol, you say that as if it were a bad thing.

Paper Mario was one of literally two RPGs released for the N64.

When it comes to being wrong, you are truly having a career day.

[Ian Sane]

Much like how RPGs got flack from Nintendo fans during the PS1 days, shooters get crapped on.  They're brown and for bro-gamers.  So here we have something that has essentially no appeal at all to shooter fans on competing consoles.  The main characters are children that turn into squids and shoot paint.  Any superficial element of today's shooters that make them hip has been stripped away.

lol, you say that as if it were a bad thing.

It's not a bad thing per say.  It's just not something I expect to sell well.

And I appear to have offended the Quest 64 apologists with my N64 comment.  I guess I should have said "figuratively".

[Luigi Dude]

But isn't going for only Nintendo's audience a problem?  Shouldn't the goal of major software releases be to move hardware units as well? At least in some small capacity?

If you are trying to make people buy a Wii U, you try to appeal to people who don't already have one. This game is being hyped, which is fine. Its being hyped for the wrong reason though, which is to move hardware, which it won't.

The people Nintendo is trying to appeal that don't own a Wii U are 3DS owners, not Playstation or Xbox fans who I can actually agree with Ian about, were never going to give a **** about this game just from it's look alone.  There's well over 50 million 3DS users, but only around 10 million Wii U's, despite both systems having many of the same kind of games.

I mentioned Mario Kart and Smash Bros earlier, but I was just talking about the Wii U version.  The 3DS versions have sold even more, showing there's still millions of people interested in Nintendo software but aren't buying Wii U's for it.  Splatoon is one of those unique games that has nothing like it on the 3DS, which appealing to some of the Mario/Smash audience might make some of those owners which have currently been happy enough with Mario Kart 7 or Smash 3DS to actually consider grabbing a Wii U since there's no portable version this time.

[broodwars]

And I appear to have offended the Quest 64 apologists with my N64 comment.  I guess I should have said "figuratively".

Hey, Quest 64's a colossal piece of ****, but let's not pretend it didn't exist (along with the other 2 N64 RPGs you clearly forgot). 

[Evan_B]

I wanted to apologize for my previous statements- I have been saying things that not even I believe are true in order to choke this discussion and mold it to my liking, so I'll  clarify here.

I believe that Splatoon will be a well-made game that features a number of flaws that, though it is a new idea that Nintendo is promoting and I am thankful for that train of thought, ultimately hold it back from greatness and will not give its multiplayer a healthy life. I think it has potential and I think it cpuld be something great when it has a sequel that improves its flaws.

I also believe the Playstation 4 has a library of games but it's exclusives are unimpressive and it's total library lacks quality in a number of ways, but rather than picking apart the library listed before I'll just say ports do not make a system good. The Wind Waker HD is a nice update with some neat features and visuals that are a bit bizarre but it is not the definitive version of the game and it is not a reason for someone with brand loyalty to buy the new console, much like th many ports of PS3 and last-generation titles are no reason to brag about the library of the PS4.

What I do believe very strongly is that Nintendo has made a serious flaw in marketing "sequels" on the Wii U. NSMBU, SM3DW, MK8, Tropical Freeze, Smash 4, and potentially even Xenoblade Chronicles have titles that feature roughly the exact same gameplay and aesthetics from their 3DS counterpart and just because they sold well on the Wii or 3DS doesn't mean they are franchises that need to be continuously trotted out. It feels lazy despite the effort put into the game, it doesn't entice people to buy the system, and it's unoriginal even if it's an improvement over its predecessor. They need more Splatoons, Devil's Thirds, #FEs, and hell, even Zombi Us because those are the games that feel new and fresh and original despite their quality. If you're going to make a sequel to a game, one or two powerups or water physics do not make a substantial enough purpose to create that sequel. There are better ways to sequelize a title.

Nintendo needs to stop thinking within the paradigms of what has been successful for them in the past because it's clear that train of thought is not working. Hopefully their recent work with DeNA and Splatoon is a sign of this but they really have yet to prove this and that's disappointing, but expected durin the downswing of two of their consoles.

[Triforce Hermit]

But isn't going for only Nintendo's audience a problem?  Shouldn't the goal of major software releases be to move hardware units as well? At least in some small capacity?

If you are trying to make people buy a Wii U, you try to appeal to people who don't already have one. This game is being hyped, which is fine. Its being hyped for the wrong reason though, which is to move hardware, which it won't.

The people Nintendo is trying to appeal that don't own a Wii U are 3DS owners, not Playstation or Xbox fans who I can actually agree with Ian about, were never going to give a **** about this game just from it's look alone.  There's well over 50 million 3DS users, but only around 10 million Wii U's, despite both systems having many of the same kind of games.

I mentioned Mario Kart and Smash Bros earlier, but I was just talking about the Wii U version.  The 3DS versions have sold even more, showing there's still millions of people interested in Nintendo software but aren't buying Wii U's for it.  Splatoon is one of those unique games that has nothing like it on the 3DS, which appealing to some of the Mario/Smash audience might make some of those owners which have currently been happy enough with Mario Kart 7 or Smash 3DS to actually consider grabbing a Wii U since there's no portable version this time.

I don't believe it will appeal to any significant amount of the 3DS userbase, but I could be wrong. Even if it is appealing to 3DS owners, a lot of them play online games on other consoles and still have expectations of features which have been commonplace for over a decade.

[Soren]

This thread...

[Evan_B]

This thread...

Is great and fun.

[nickmitch]

Paper Mario was one of literally two RPGs released for the N64.

No, it "literally" was not.  I can think of Quest 64; Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage, Hybrid Heaven, Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber, and Paper Mario just off the top of my head. I wouldn't even say it was one of "literally" two "good" RPGs released for the N64.

No one means "literally" literally.

And I appear to have offended the Quest 64 apologists with my N64 comment.  I guess I should have said "figuratively".

No one says "figuratively".

[nickmitch]

This thread...

Is great and fun.

Is bringing much needed life and debate to the forums.

[NWR_insanolord]

This thread...

Is great and fun.

Is bringing much needed life and debate to the forums.

It's going off the rails and getting sidetracked every which way, but the only threads here that doesn't happen in are the ones nobody cares enough to post in.

[Triforce Hermit]

Isn't this a Splatoon thread?

[ShyGuy]

Its time for a forum membership drive!

[ThePerm]

at least Nintendo in the last 15 years has improved on the rpg front. We can give them that.

[NWR_insanolord]

at least Nintendo in the last 15 years has improved on the rpg front. We can give them that.

They did buy a company that was really good at making RPGs, and then eventually let them make one.

[Mop it up]

I don't think the Nintendo 64 started out as far behind the PlayStation as it ended up, but even if it did, the totals are that the PSX outsold the N64 by a factor of just barely more than 3-to-1. Given the way things are going, I'd be surprised if the PS4 didn't end up outselling the Wii U by 3-to-1, and even 4-to-1 or 5-to-1 seems possible.

Also, I probably shouldn't admit this, but I actually liked Quest 64. I mean, it was certainly no answer to the PSX RPGs, but it had some interesting ideas. Though, Aidyn Chronicles expanded on the battle system, so it's the better game.

[broodwars]

at least Nintendo in the last 15 years has improved on the rpg front. We can give them that.

They did buy a company that was really good at making RPGs, and then eventually let them make one.

By my count, they've made 4: Baten Kaitos:EWATLO; Baten Kaitos Origins; Xenoblade; & Xenoblade X. I've only played 3 of the 4, but they've done fine so far.

[nickmitch]

at least Nintendo in the last 15 years has improved on the rpg front. We can give them that.

They did buy a company that was really good at making RPGs, and then eventually let them make one.

If only they could buy a company that was good at making first person shooters.

[Mop it up]

Retro would probably be good at an FPS, given their work on Metroid Prime.

[nickmitch]

That's what I was getting at.

[Ian Sane]

at least Nintendo in the last 15 years has improved on the rpg front. We can give them that.

They did buy a company that was really good at making RPGs, and then eventually let them make one.

If only they could buy a company that was good at making first person shooters.

Ironically the N64 was by far the BEST console for first person shooters at the time.  Then they sold the company that made them.  And they've had a company that could easily fill the void but for some reason never use them in that context.  It's like Nintendo trades away their quarterback, drafts a quarterback to replace him but then converts that quarterback to a kicker.

Or think of it this way.  Nintendo had both RPGs and FPS's in abundance on their consoles at different times and then pretty much jettisoned both genres just before they reached their peak commercial value.  That is some freakishly poor timing.

[nickmitch]

Comically poor, when you think about it.

[Mop it up]

To be fair, FPS games were still pretty popular during the 90s when Nintendo had them on the N64. Games like Goldeneye 007 and Perfect Dark sold millions of copies. On the other hand, the RPGs on the SNES did not sell comparatively well in the US.