Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on April 04, 2014, 05:14:47 PM
Title: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on April 04, 2014, 05:14:47 PM
What got you into Nintendo gaming, what are your best/worst Nintendo moments, memories, and favorite, least favorite games?
I am genuinely curios because lately it seems like most Nintendo fans are just fans of the company and have either forgotten what they used to like or what got them into Nintendo in the first place. I am guilty of this, the Wii had so much potential and then I lost interest because it wasn't more like the Game Cube and then Wii U has me kind of not caring at all. I should be hyped I stood in line in the cold winter to get a Wii, I got a paper route and saved all my money to get an N64 and I sold my drum set that I had been dreaming of starting a rock band to get an SNES so once upon a time I would bend over backwards to buy the latest Nintendo console.
I will share mine first and others feel free to chime in or ignore it if you want. What got me into Nintendo gaming was Donkey Kong. I played it in the arcade, and on the VCS. I also loved Popeye and Mario Bros, similar gameplay. I got an NES one special Christmas and was hooked, I loved every minute of it, the dark times, the endless glitches and blinking aside I couldn't wait to get home from school to play some more Super Mario, Duck Tales, or Mega Man. I rented more games than I owned back then. I got a Sega Genesis for my 12th birthday and like most people it just made me hungry for more Nintendo. I kept it for a while but once I got into Super Mario World, Mario RPG, DKC, that was it, Sonic was dead to me.
I got an N64 day one, loved it played it to death, got all the big titles, Turok, Mario 64, Smash Bros, Mario Party, Banjo, MK4, MKT, DK64, Kirby, and many others. I traded in my aging Genesis and a used Saturn I grew tired of never finding affordable games for and picked up a Game Cube with the Zelda Collector's disk bundled in and took it home plugged it in and instantly reminded how awesome Nintendo was. I loved the Game Cube, it has the first and only decent 3D Sonic game released, it had a pretty good Pac-Man world with a Vs. bonus disk, it had a unique and interesting Final Fantasy that didn't rely on emo tranny saving the world with big sword. I stood in line to get a Wii because the idea of motion controls sounded super exciting, Wii Sports was pretty good, there was Wii Play which held my interest for about a week and then motion controls became unappealing. I tried to love the Wii but somehow I lost interest. Looking back even the few Wii games I might be interested in is not enough to sell me on Wii U, as tempting as Mario 3D world and DKC TP are, I just sort of lost interest.
At first I thought I lost interest in gaming entirely until I picked up a PS3 early last year and remembered what I was missing out on. I also had a PS1 and a PS2 during their heyday so I was covered but when Wii came out I just couldn't afford the behemoth PS3 so I went all in and I think that was what soured me to Nintendo, it was the first console they made that I really felt lacked all the games I wanted. Wii U is even more lacking and as hard as I try I can't get excited for it, I should Mario 3D World and DKC look amazing, but thats not enough. But why is that when Mario 64 was enough to shell out $250+ of my hard earned paper route money? That is why I think the Wii U biggest problem is price, for the first time ever Nintendo priced their console out of the target market that usually buys their machines.
Right now even a used Wii U costs more than every single previous Nintendo console did at launch and that is including the useless Basic models that are also way over priced. It isn't just the Wii U, I struggled to pay $129 for a DS but the 3DS is too far out of my reach to care and even the cheaper 2DS as appealing as that is, is still too much for a hand held, especially ones that traditionally launch at that price and go down quickly. I would grab a 3DS in a heartbeat at $129 or lower but I can't find anything even used at that price. I won't get a Wii U until it gets down to below $250 where it should have launched and by then it needs some games too. Look at Playstation, their first was $300, their second also same price, their third double that, which one had trouble selling, and it wasn't all due to games PS3 had the games all along. PS4 is only $100 dollars more expensive and with bundles it's priced right where it should be, that is why I think Nintendo needs to drop the price ASAP. I especially think a $50 price drop days before Mario Kart 8 would be a miracle for Nintendo and might save their asses.
As far as hand helds go, this is console discussion but I will throw this out there, had a Game Boy Pocket and then a GBA, and then a DS all within a year or two of release. I would have gotten a regular game boy sooner but I was young and no money then and my parents gave me Tigers and said that was good enough.
Anyways my best Nintendo moment ever was playing Super Mario 64 for the first time, magical never forget that moment. I still go back and replay that game and as old as it is and as lame as this sounds just that game in full HD with proper graphics upgrades I would buy Wii U tomorrow.
My worst Nintendo moment was playing Wario World, probably the worst game they ever had anything to do with. I liked the Wii at first and I think if I got another one I might give it a second chance but I am torn, get a cheap Wii for next to nothing or get a Wii U and play Wii games on it?
So what are your memories and if you aren't sold yet on Wii u, or even 3DS what are your reasons and what would be the tipping point for you? Me dropping the price would get me closer, but honestly it needs more games, Hyrule Warriors has my interest and Mario Kart 8 could be a good game but other than that I think all I am interested in is Mario 3D World, DKC TP, and maybe New Super Mario/Luigi U but even that is not much. I thought I was interested in that Sonic game but I lost interest after watching videos of it on Youtube, even still that is just barely one more game.
Of course all this would be settled if the virtual console was worth a damn because that held me over on Wii for a while but even that is not enough I have Steam and PSN for indie games already.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Ian Sane on April 04, 2014, 06:24:00 PM
When I was a kid I pretty much wanted an NES because I wanted a videogame system and "playing Nintendo" was what you did. In the end it took so long to save up for one my brothers and I got a SNES instead. The decision to get a SNES was mostly Street Fighter II's initial exclusivity, Super Mario World and the fact that most people owned a Super Nintendo and when you're a kid you follow the crowd. It wasn't really Nintendo's strengths that brought me to the dance in the first place.
But when the third parties went to the PS1 you had to make a choice. Nintendo's games on the SNES were the most consistently good so I stuck with Nintendo. They also had Rare who had really impressed me with the DKC games. And while the N64's third party problems were major, Nintendo's own games were often so good to make up for it. Yeah you waited months for a half-decent game to come out but when it did it was one of the best games every made! I became a Nintendo fan because they were innovative and committed to quality. When they made a game it was damn good and also groundbreaking. If you went with Nintendo you go to be on the cutting edge of game design. On the N64 in particular Nintendo was leading the industry into 3D, even if they had missed the boat on optical discs.
And this is really my beef with present day Nintendo. On the N64 you had **** third party support but the first party games were cutting edge masterpieces. As the generations have gone by we're now at this point on the Wii U: the third party support is **** and the first party games are retro 2D platformers on hardware that's a generation behind. See the difference? See why I would put up with bad third party support in one scenario and consider it unacceptable in another? This is a big part of why I'm turned off by Nintendo going with last gen hardware, not just because it completely screws up third party support but also because Nintendo is no longer making cutting edge games. They're not leaders, they're not innovators. They're conservative ninnies clinging to old concepts, some of which would have been outdated on the N64. Today, you go with Nintendo if you want the same old bullshit. This is even ignoring their casual crap. And sadly I don't really see any other company that's like Nintendo used to be.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: azeke on April 05, 2014, 01:45:50 AM
As a person with zero nostalgia for older Nintendo games, i can clearly see that modern Nintendo games are as good as they ever been, both in quality and quantity.
I'm sorry for people who are unable to realize it.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: pokepal148 on April 05, 2014, 06:00:41 AM
OOT and Mario 64 are just as, if not more flawed then Galaxy and TP
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Adrock on April 05, 2014, 08:50:10 AM
Nostalgia typically wears off when I actually go back and play some of those old games. Only a few of them hold up. I wonder how many games I really liked more recently will hold up years from now.
In any case, I'm pretty happy with all the Nintendo products I've purchased. DSi was probably used the least as I did most of my damage on the DS Lite I eventually gave to my brother. I recently picked up a couple DS game which I prefer playing on the DSi so it will get some extra play time.
I like Wii U. It's a decent console that gets a lot more flak than it deserves, not that it doesn't deserve some of it (e.g. those load times... my goodness). This is going to be a good year for it.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Mop it up on April 06, 2014, 03:09:06 PM
We received an NES for Christmas in 1989 and so the first game I played was Super Mario Brothers. Then the second game I played was Castlequest, which I actually liked more than Super Mario Brothers. Crazy, I know. Though, I was never terribly interested in the NES, it was more something I'd play when there was nothing else to do rather than something I actively wanted to do. I played the greats like the Zeldas and Mega Mans, though I was more interested in something like Zelda because it had more depth to it than Mega Man. Even so, I wanted more out of games than what the NES could provide so I was never too into it.
We didn't own an SNES during its era, though we did have a Genesis. We never had very many games for that system though; Sonic 1 and 2, Golden Axe, Sword of Vermillion, and Blaster Master 2 are what I recall having. There may have been a few others that didn't interest me (I have three siblings that I shared this stuff with). The only SNES games I played during its generation are Super Mario World and Zelda: Link to the Past at a friend's house, though once again I was more interested in the Zelda game. I still didn't feel like these systems offered much more than the NES, though of course these games I played were all the earlier ones that didn't take full advantage of their respective systems.
In the summer of '97, my younger brother received an SNES for his birthday and, not wanting to be outdone, my older brother bought a Nintendo 64 for himself. Since we got both systems on one day then I effectively missed the SNES generation, so unfortunately I don't have as much context and attachment to that system as I could have gotten. When I first played Super Mario 64, it really captured my imagination. Before then, I had a pretty low opinion of videogames, I thought they were all just plain, dotty images with beeps and boops, and simplistic gameplay. Super Mario 64 opened my eyes and showed me the amazing things that games can do. This is the point where games transitioned from a mere timewaster to a full-blown hobby (though still not my number one hobby). As the N64 years went on, games like Goldeneye and Zelda further solidified that.
That's how I got into games, and the rest, as they say, is history. Since then, GameCube was a disappointment to me. I didn't feel it did a good job building on the greatness of the N64. The Wii however, was a good turnaround, it has a much better, more robust library than the GameCube and Nintendo's output was much better. Wii U is so far a disappointment overall, but it has a few fun games and more on the way. Too early to judge it as a whole. 3DS is also disappointing, but the DS is a tough act to follow.
The N64 is still my fave system but nostalgia removed, I'd probably say the Wii. GameCube and NES are at the low end, though I'd probably pick GameCube as my least fave Nintendo system. The NES is somewhat forgivable due to being limited by the technology of the time, and from the relative inexperience of game developers.
It's kind of odd how I used to like Zelda more than Mario, but now the Mario franchise is my favourite. I guess things have a way of changing for one reason or another.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Ian Sane on April 07, 2014, 12:54:25 PM
As a person with zero nostalgia for older Nintendo games, i can clearly see that modern Nintendo games are as good as they ever been, both in quality and quantity.
I'm sorry for people who are unable to realize it.
It's not about what's better because later games are often better due to small refinements. I care more about how good Nintendo games are for the time period they are released and the games today are mostly worst. Skyward Sword is not as good as a 2011 game than Ocarina of Time is as a 1998 game. I would want a Zelda of 2014 to be as good of a game as the original was in 1987 or A Link to the Past was in 1992 or OoT in 1998. The ambition in the design should be the same and it isn't. Nintendo aren't just the formula to me because I became a fan because of the creativity, ambition and innovation in the game design, not specifically because you get this key and then get the boomerang and beat a dodongo, etc.
And Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World ARE actually better games than the NSMB titles. Their 2D design doesn't make them age like an N64 game does and the NSMB titles do so little with modern technology that their design doesn't add anything substantial to the formula.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on April 07, 2014, 03:29:31 PM
As a person with zero nostalgia for older Nintendo games, i can clearly see that modern Nintendo games are as good as they ever been, both in quality and quantity.
I'm sorry for people who are unable to realize it.
It's not about what's better because later games are often better due to small refinements. I care more about how good Nintendo games are for the time period they are released and the games today are mostly worst. Skyward Sword is not as good as a 2011 game than Ocarina of Time is as a 1998 game. I would want a Zelda of 2014 to be as good of a game as the original was in 1987 or A Link to the Past was in 1992 or OoT in 1998. The ambition in the design should be the same and it isn't. Nintendo aren't just the formula to me because I became a fan because of the creativity, ambition and innovation in the game design, not specifically because you get this key and then get the boomerang and beat a dodongo, etc.
And Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World ARE actually better games than the NSMB titles. Their 2D design doesn't make them age like an N64 game does and the NSMB titles do so little with modern technology that their design doesn't add anything substantial to the formula.
I disagree here, while I love Super Mario Bros. 3 and World to death to say they are better than New Super Mario Bros. is a real stretch, and I think that is either nostalgia talking. I haven't play the latter ones but they do look pretty good to me, but New Super Mario Bros. on the DS was one of the best games on the DS and one of the best Mario games ever made. I don't know why World or even 3 are held up as these amazing games that broadened the games whatever but the NEW games are just rehashes or whatever. Right now the three Mario games and one DKC are the only games I am interested in for the Wii U and my sister gave her kids all DS's for Christmas and they play nothing but New Super Mario and Mario 3D Land and they love them. If you were a kid today you would think they were great games too but your not, your looking at them as an adult who prefers the games from his childhood.
I can't comment on Skyward Sword because I never played it, but I will say that my interest in Zelda games has dried up over the years and part of that is the fatigue, which is why I am excited for something fresh like Hyrule Warriors. With Zelda games I am tired of replaying the same game over and over, sure there are minor changes but pick a Zelda and you pretty much know exactly where to go and what do to, occasionally they try to trick you or mix things up. I would have preferred it if they had made latter Zelda's either focus more on the action or make them full on RPG's, I am tired of the middle ground they keep straddling, the last two Zelda games I played took forever to get to the actual action and I hate that. I am all for dungeon exploration and I am all for puzzle solving but come one there still needs to be action in these games and they seem to have forgotten that, and the challenge is lessened when you have annoying little tagalongs basically telling you what to do the whole damn time anyways.
I know this will ruffle feathers but I hope to God Hyrule Warriors is a big smash hit and the next "main" one is a total flop. At least that way Nintendo will learn to try something really new with Zelda instead of just adding some weird gimmick to each game. The gimmicks are worse than in the 3D Mario games.
And before some jack ass says something stupid like I want Mario games to stay the same but change Zelda, yes because Mario are pick up and play, short little distractions, Zelda games are super involved and require a real commitment. Also I love that about Mario, his games do have variety even the ones that stay close to the formula, Zelda games you played one you played them all pretty much, yes I played enough to say that is how I feel about them, I played both NES, the Minish Cap, Link to Past, OOT, MM, Wind Waker, TP, Oracles, and by the time I got to Twilight Princess I learned I wasn't having fun anymore and I was forcing myself to continue just because.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Adrock on April 07, 2014, 04:56:27 PM
NSMB on DS, to me, was easily the weakest game in the New series. It's too easy and the new powerups were woefully underused. NSMBW and NSMBU are both excellent and hold their own against the older games, but I'd still give the edge to SMB3 and World due to innovation. They were far more inventive and experimental. I felt Donkey Kong Country Returns did more in terms of moving the genre forward. I can't fairly comment on Tropical Freeze as I've only played two or three stages and haven't opened my copy I just bought yesterday yet.
A Link Between Worlds sends you on your way fairly quickly, especially compared to Twilight Princess. If you want to go adventuring immediately, that might be the game for you. I highly doubt Hyrule Warriors outperforms the next mainline Zelda. I'd be surprised if it manages to outperform Wind Waker HD. I don't think Nintendo needs a flop to try something new. I also don't think they really need to turn it into a completely different genre though I'm intrigued by Hyrule Warriors and I hope it turns out well despite how early it looked. Skyward Sword was probably the largest departure for the series in years (I know you said you haven't played it), but I personally wasn't a fan. It was well-made; it simply didn't resonate with me.
I get what you're saying about Zelda games being similar, but I don't agree that you-play-one-you-played-them-all. There's a formula that makes things predictable, sure. However, I never felt like I was playing the same game.
That's how I got into games, and the rest, as they say, is history. Since then, GameCube was a disappointment to me. I didn't feel it did a good job building on the greatness of the N64. The Wii however, was a good turnaround, it has a much better, more robust library than the GameCube and Nintendo's output was much better. Wii U is so far a disappointment overall, but it has a few fun games and more on the way. Too early to judge it as a whole. 3DS is also disappointing, but the DS is a tough act to follow.
I feel the exact opposite way you do. GameCube, to me, is Nintendo's strongest console after SNES (N64 is close behind). It has three of the best games I've ever played (Melee, Prime, and RE4). I find that I can still go back and play those games while many of the N64 games aged poorly. The framerate on Mario Kart 64 hurts my face.
I also had a lot of fun with Wii even though it gets a lot of slack from some. It was released during another transitional period for me. I was almost out of college and starting a full time job. My gaming habits haven't changed much since. There are/were software droughts, but they affect(ed) me far less due to how much less I play video games now.
Here's how I'd rank Nintendo hardware:
Consoles - SNES, GameCube, N64, Wii, Wii U, NES. The verdict is still out on Wii U, but that's where it stands right now. Honestly, both Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Bros. are looking like the best entries in their respective series, and 7 and Melee are extremely tough to follow. 3D World is already excellent, and if the new Zelda is solid, I could see Wii U giving GameCube a run for its money.
Handhelds: DS(i), 3DS, Gameboy Advance, Gameboy/Color. The verdict is still out on 3DS, but I find it much stronger than Wii U currently. Streetpass/Play Coins has me using it every day.
Overall: SNES, DS(i), GameCube, 3DS, N64, Wii, Gameboy Advance, Wii U, Gameboy/Color, NES. I suppose Virtual Boy is automatically last for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Mop it up on April 07, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
Personally, I haven't been truly "wowed" by a game since the N64 era. There is never going to be anything so drastic and game-changing as the shift from 2D to 3D, it's simply impossible for something like that to exist in this day and age. Current technology can allow pretty much any game imaginable, and I've felt that's been true for at least a decade, so there isn't really anything left to be ambitious with. And I've also stopped caring about that for at least a decade as well. Now, all I want is fun games. And typically, that's what I get from Nintendo.
GameCube, to me, is Nintendo's strongest console after SNES (N64 is close behind). It has three of the best games I've ever played (Melee, Prime, and RE4). I find that I can still go back and play those games while many of the N64 games aged poorly. The framerate on Mario Kart 64 hurts my face.
I never played RE4 (as you know), but Melee and Metroid Prime are indeed great. SSBMelee is still my fave game on any system, but that isn't enough for me to call the GameCube great as a whole. I don't think it's bad either, just doesn't stand up to other systems on the whole. Metroid Prime (and 2) now has a superior version on the Wii, so of course I credit the game for GameCube but I now play it on the Wii. RE4 is a similar story, it will be a Wii game for me as well.
The main thing that really hurts the GameCube for me is that it has one of the worst Mario games released and one of the worst Zeldas. Worst being a relative term of course; Sunshine and Wind Waker are still good games, but they are weak entries compared to others in that series. Since these are my two fave franchises then a system which has weak entries in it is going to score few points with me.
I do like Twilight Princess a lot which should probably be counted as a GameCube game since it started as one, even though the Wii version released first. But I played it on Wii and consider that the better version, so it's also a Wii game to me.
I never really liked Mario Kart 64 much to begin with. Mario Kart Wii is way better than anything that came before it. I hope MK8 can top it, but it has a lot to live up to.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Ian Sane on April 07, 2014, 05:58:24 PM
I know this will ruffle feathers but I hope to God Hyrule Warriors is a big smash hit and the next "main" one is a total flop. At least that way Nintendo will learn to try something really new with Zelda instead of just adding some weird gimmick to each game. The gimmicks are worse than in the 3D Mario games.
I don't trust Nintendo enough to learn the right lesson from a flop. I figure poor Zelda sales would just tell them that people don't like Zelda anymore. It takes a very savvy developer to recognize that a series has gone stale and that that is responsible for lower sales. And you could argue that anyone that savvy probably recognizes that they were being stale to begin with and would try to avoid doing so. I'm very worried about Metroid's future for example because I have no idea why Nintendo thinks Other M wasn't well received. In theory I figure the Wii U bombing would inspire them to get their act together but now I fear their solution is to have an exit strategy for leaving the videogame industry.
Think of how often in your own life you realized your mistake and learned the right lesson from doing so and things ended up better. Does that happen very often or are we more likely to come up with excuses, see only what we want to see, and avoid personal growth and improvement if it involves anything unpleasant along with way? Now apply that to a corporation where there are all sorts of clashing egos and probably half the executives are phonies that have faked their way to the top. Half of the shareholders would just use that as an excuse to push for cellphone games because that's the agenda they're pushing anyway.
I think the best we can hope for is that the team making Zelda becomes inspired to try new things with the series because of their personal passion for the source material and that these new ideas aren't something the suits would disapprove of.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: azeke on April 07, 2014, 11:39:29 PM
I've played SMB3 last year for the very first time.
SMB3 has absolutely baffling level design (levels that take 10 seconds to complete and have NOTHING on them, seriously there is nothing there), lots of padding (absolutely pointless underground tunnels that are there just to waste my time).
I respect the game for what it did, but it's not as good as you think it is.
Also i personally hate overreliance on items. I hate to spend half an hour in a level trying to find an exit, and then finding out i was supposed to use a power-up AND know exactly what i have to do. And that the ONLY way to complete the level.
"Bu... bu.. but... whistle!" Whistle is an item too. And i am completely baffled why would anyone SKIP levels in a game. It's the same as going to cinema, reading the brief description of the movie and walking out 10 minutes after it starts.
Even the first NSMB game is better than SMB3. Every other NSMB improved on it tenfold.
Other issues with SMB3 are physics (almost analog momentum based jumping is too wonky), Luigi-like skating all the time (half of the time in the game you spend braking trying to get a hold of yourself and not slip off a platform after a long jump). Screen doesn't scroll as fast you can move so you're forced to memorize the some levels and replay it until you get the sequence just right with zero freedom to improvise.
It's the perfect example of blinding nostalgia.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 07, 2014, 11:44:09 PM
Oh you are so banned.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: azeke on April 07, 2014, 11:50:09 PM
That would only reinforce my point completely: you are so invested in it emotionally and can't disprove even a single point, you'd rather silence an inconvenient truth rather than face it.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 08, 2014, 12:00:25 AM
Well for one, if you need that many items to progress you really suck at the game. Also, and this is more a difference in opinion more than a fact either way, but I like Mario 3's shorter levels way more than the way-too-long ones in World. Really, most of your complaints are more philosophical difference than flaws in the game. And to the physics point, that's funny, because my main complaint with World is that the physics never feel right.
EDIT: And if I were actually going to ban you and not just joke about it, I wouldn't announce it here. In my bannings I'm like a thief in the night; you'd never see me coming.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: azeke on April 08, 2014, 12:08:09 AM
Also, and this is more a difference in opinion more than a fact either way, but I like Mario 3's shorter levels way more than the way-too-long ones in World.
I never played World so i don't side me in the SMB3 vs World debate.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 08, 2014, 12:22:24 AM
I can't think of a single time when a power-up is required. They can certainly make things easier, and there may be certain optional parts of levels that require them, but I'm fairly certain you could beat the whole game without one.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: azeke on April 08, 2014, 12:39:50 AM
I can't think of a single time when a power-up is required. They can certainly make things easier, and there may be certain optional parts of levels that require them, but I'm fairly certain you could beat the whole game without one.
Thanks for proving my point: blinding nostalgia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pHEakp_VTM).
There were few other times when game did that but i don't remember it as clearly.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 08, 2014, 12:45:24 AM
Hey, I'm not blinded by nostalgia. I've actually been playing the game pretty recently because I was too impatient to wait for the VC release. I'm sorry that I don't have a completely photographic memory of every part of the game. Great, you showed an example of a level that requires a power-up, one that is easily available in the level and respawns every time you enter that room.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: azeke on April 08, 2014, 12:50:42 AM
I don't care if power-up is in the level or not.
The mere fact that the use of power-up is ABSOLUTELY required to progress through a level in an extremely bullshit way is a big no-no.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 08, 2014, 01:12:53 AM
If I'm not mistaken, pretty much every game in the series since them has also had such levels, so I'm not sure why you were expecting different.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: azeke on April 08, 2014, 01:26:59 AM
SMB1 can be completed with no power-ups. All the NSMB games can be completed with no power-ups. And not only just "completed", but the vast majority of collectibles (if not all of them) and extra stuff can also be done by regular Mario alone. Super Mario 3D Land can be completed with no power-ups. Even the final-final-final level can be completed with no power-ups. Super Mario 3D World can be completed with no power-ups. Majority of the collectibles (if not all of them) you can get with no power-ups, even the green stars that are placed seemingly too high can be obtained with helicopter jump.
These games are all superior to SMB3 not only because of that one fact (though that's a big plus), but it's but just one part of overall inferior level design in SMB3.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 08, 2014, 01:30:34 AM
I guess I'll take your word for that, because I don't remember those games to that extent. I know for sure that 64 and both Galaxies had levels like that, and am almost certain that World did as well. Really, I don't see why it's that much of a problem so long as they're easily and conveniently available.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: azeke on April 08, 2014, 01:38:08 AM
Really, I don't see why it's that much of a problem so long as they're easily and conveniently available.
It's just one problem in the big pile. Other issues i mentioned here and even earlier (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=40642.0) but they always conveniently gets forgotten in the outrage of rustled feathers:
1. Slow screen scrolling -- you potentially move faster than screen scrolls which leads to blind jumps unless you stop, but.. 2. you have to spend a lot of gameplay time constantly braking and stopping yourself from falling off because momentum pushes you further than you want. If you don't stop, see point 1. 3. Pointless time wasting -- underground tunnels that DO NOTHING 4. ENTIRE levels that DO NOTHING, there is nothing in there, and you run through them in ten seconds, and then shrug "what was THAT about?"
I can go on if you really want your childhood picked apart.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 08, 2014, 01:48:01 AM
The first one I'll give you, the forced scrolling levels go way too slow for my tastes. The second one I completely disagree with, but maybe that's just the fact that the quarter century I've spent playing the game has trained me how to handle it better. The third is annoying, I guess, but not enough to be worth bitching about to the extent that you do. Four I don't really agree with; sure there are some really short levels, but I like that compared to levels in other games in the series that tend to take way too long.
I get that you don't like the game, but taking the stance that you are absolutely in the right and anyone who disagrees with you is blinded by nostalgia is a really obnoxious attitude. I've completed the game dozens of times, over the course of over two decades, and I wouldn't still be playing it or be as rabidly excited to buy the game for like the 6th or 7th time if I didn't truly love it.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: azeke on April 08, 2014, 02:14:06 AM
The second one I completely disagree with, but maybe that's just the fact that the quarter century I've spent playing the game has trained me how to handle it better.
E-EXACTLY!. Twenty five years to learn how to walk, run and jump properly in a game.
I just booted up SMB3 to re-check my feelings.
Very soon i rediscovered again that the "right" way to jump in this game is pressing forward, jumping, and then pressing BACK in air to minimize the momentum you gained from jumping.
I have to fight viciously the game physics with literally each movement you do, be it running or jumping.
I am not calling the game bad, but it is deeply, deeply flawed and is objectively worse than any modern Mario platformer.
I totally agree it was fair for it's time but it doesn't hold up for someone who plays today for the first time. Someone like me.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 08, 2014, 02:42:00 AM
The only way it's *objectively* worse than modern Mario games is because it lacked a save feature, which pretty much every re-release of the game has rectified. I'm sorry that you suck at the game and can't enjoy it as much as most people, but I severely disagree with any attempt to call it "deeply, deeply flawed."
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: azeke on April 08, 2014, 02:56:23 AM
But it is. I showed my argumentation why it is that way. You conceded to all of them and instead of counter-points you wrote how you much love playing it since you were a kid. Again and again proving my point.
I am not trying to rile up anyone or kill your sacred cows, the point of this thread is a comparison between new and old Nintendo.
As a person who can see it with a fresh eye, being completely oblivious to console gaming most of my life, i can clearly see that the idea of "new Nintendo" being worse than "Nintendo of old" holds no water.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Khushrenada on April 08, 2014, 11:23:36 AM
Ha ha ha. Super Mario Bros. 3 is so bad, Nintendo is trying not to release it on the Wii U virtual console to hide their shame and embarressment at how deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply flawed it is.
On a real note, I just want to say that I'm sure the creater of this thread is happy with the results. A thread for everyone to post what got them into gaming or what they like about Nintendo has immediately turned into a chance for everyone to offer their favorite complaints about past Nintendo games. (Hashtag: BlameIanSane) I love it! More fun than the funhouse.Although, since Marvel Movie Fan has participated a bit in the arguing of games, I don't think he's really against it.
Now allow me to chime in on a different point. Regarding Insanolord's complaint of SMW's levels being too long, that's an odd complaint to me. Their length seems just right to me and from my emotional memory, their length feels much like Mario Bros. 2, 3 and NSMB games. I do admit that some Mario Bros. 3 levels were definitely shorter but back when I used to play the game on Super Mario All-Stars the majority of the levels felt like the same length in my mind. (Not that I was comparing them at the time.) But maybe it is the way I play. I like to poke around and look all over levels and search for secrets.
However, if you want to talk long levels, then I would direct you to SMW2: Yoshi's Island and Yoshi's Island DS. I really noticed it playing SMW2: YI again from the Ambassador games. Of course, I had to beat it 100% but once I finished it, I said to myself, that's it. I don't need to play this game again. Levels can just seem to drag out in in.
As for Azeke's claim that the NSMB series requires no power-up's to complete it, the first thing I immediately thought of was Mini-Mario from NSMB DS. In that game to access World 4 and World 7, you have to defeat the World 2 and World 5 boss with Mini-Mario respectively. Although you can access World 7 from a cannon warp in World 4, you still need Mini-Mario to get to World 4. So, power-up required. Plus, if you do want to complete the game by getting all Star coins, you will for sure need the power-ups to access some of them. Notably, the Mini-Mario powerup and the Mega-Mario for a few. I remember having to go to one level to get a power-up so that I could go back to another level and get the Star Coin.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: azeke on April 08, 2014, 12:24:27 PM
I never said you can get EVERYTHING with regular Mario. Certainly there will some hidden levels that are unavailable otherwise.
But nothing like the complete bullshit that SMB3 pulls where not knowing that i HAVE to use power-ups completely stops the entire game.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Oblivion on April 08, 2014, 02:38:08 PM
Khush, I'd rather have people be objective and talk about flaws in these supposed masterpieces then blindingly follow their rose-tinted glasses like most Nintendo fanboys.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 08, 2014, 02:41:03 PM
But it is. I showed my argumentation why it is that way. You conceded to all of them and instead of counter-points you wrote how you much love playing it since you were a kid. Again and again proving my point.
I am not trying to rile up anyone or kill your sacred cows, the point of this thread is a comparison between new and old Nintendo.
As a person who can see it with a fresh eye, being completely oblivious to console gaming most of my life, i can clearly see that the idea of "new Nintendo" being worse than "Nintendo of old" holds no water.
One last point before I give up fighting with your straw man argument: pretty much nothing you've said is an objective flaw with the game. I am in no way arguing that you are wrong to dislike the game, in the same way that I and others aren't wrong to like it. This is a subjective matter, and arguing that anyone liking the game does so purely because of nostalgia is extremely obnoxious.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Khushrenada on April 08, 2014, 04:43:14 PM
Khush, I'd rather have people be objective and talk about flaws in these supposed masterpieces then blindingly follow their rose-tinted glasses like most Nintendo fanboys.
Hey. that's alright with me. My point was just that the opening lines of this thread were:
Quote from: marvel_moviefan_2012
What got you into Nintendo gaming, what are your best/worst Nintendo moments, memories, and favorite, least favorite games?
I am genuinely curios because lately it seems like most Nintendo fans are just fans of the company and have either forgotten what they used to like or what got them into Nintendo in the first place.
But I guess since it was rather broad and undefined, people could post what they wanted. I just didn't think the ensuing conversation was what had been meant by the creator of this thread, especially when I read through his whole post and it's tone and content.
Tally-ho!
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 08, 2014, 04:49:40 PM
An NWR forum thread going off on an unrelated, fairly frustrating tangent? The hell, you say?
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Khushrenada on April 08, 2014, 04:52:18 PM
I know, right? Where's the community manager to better manage the community and keep threads on point? So frustrating!
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on April 08, 2014, 04:59:03 PM
I know, right? Where's the community manager to better manage the community and keep threads on point? So frustrating!
Zing!
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on April 08, 2014, 05:09:14 PM
azeke, I love you man and I am no huge fan of SMB3 either but I gotta say, the main gripe you keep harping on about is that the game makes you use powerups. So what? The fact that you prefer to play the game as only small Mario and not ever use powerups is irrelevant to whether the game has good design or mechanics. If it is true the game makes you use powerups (and sometimes it does) I am not seeing how this matters. It provides you the powerup and then you use it. Getting the powerup is a little puzzle and that is part of the game's design and, when you solve it, I assume the designers hope you will find that fun and satisfying. If not, well, that is unfortunate but also subjective. Opinions vary. But objectively poor game design it is not.
Now, your gripe with the controls, I can see that being frustrating to have to press forward and then always press back to slow momentum or "brake". I am not convinced everyone plays this way nor that one needs to play this way but I can see better why you wouldn't like it. But even that gripe is subjective. Many others seem to get along with the controls just fine.
The most interesting part of this discussion for me has been to observe that you, of all folks, find the game frustrating and difficult. You are great about posting what you are playing and, man, you play some hard games. You also play not-so-hard games to a crazy level of completion that, in the end, is difficult to achieve. So your frustration with SMB3 seems surprising to me.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 08, 2014, 05:10:42 PM
It's not my job to keep things on topic. Lord knows that if it were I wouldn't have time in my life for anything else.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Khushrenada on April 08, 2014, 05:21:53 PM
I know, right? Where's the community manager to better manage the community and keep threads on point? So frustrating!
Zing!
The people have spoken. They've said Zing! No one wants to hear a real counterarguement now. It's not my job to worry about the details for every joke. Lord knows that if I did, I wouldn't have time in my life for anything else.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Mop it up on April 08, 2014, 08:40:36 PM
Well this thread took an interesting turn.
I can think of two stages in SMB3 that require use of a powerup to complete. Both of these levels are optional, in that there's a different level on the map that you can choose if you want to progress without beating the powerup level. So I see them more like the Star Coins in the recent games, they're just optional challenges if you want to 100% the game, but they're not required for normal progression.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: azeke on April 08, 2014, 11:39:47 PM
the main gripe you keep harping on about is that the game makes you use powerups
Again, you're misunderstanding my point. My main gripe is that after getting through a game 70% in, i was suddenly facing a maze level that i couldn't get through. I ran around it for two days and couldn't figure out what am i supposed to do. The fact that it required me to use power-ups that i didn't used before is just an incidental detail.
It's the worst feeling in the world when you have to google the walkthrough for Mario/Zelda game. You feel like the dumbest person in the world while doing so and somehow feel even dumber and sometimes cheated once you're shown the solution.
Same as Zelda games. That's why Zelda 1 is still my favourite because it has no bullshit puzzles that stop my progress completely. All other Zelda games i played had that BS all over them and that's why it takes me years (literally!) to finish them.
I am okay with puzzles. I can deal with them, i almost beat Jelly no Puzzle (http://martine.github.io/jelly/) (probably the hardest block puzzle game there is, i'm at the very last level there). But i need to know the rules and i need to know that this is a puzzle i am facing. I had no idea that this is a "puzzle" to begin with when i was running left and right pointlessly in that maze.
La Mulana has even more bullshitty puzzles, BUT!.. The game is very non-linear and not figuring out one particular will not stop your progress -- you can go elsewhere and try tackling other part.
It's unfortunate that you think this thread turned into venomous hatefest (i abhor those). I can certainly assure i have no venom in my heart.
We, fans, should spread LOVE not HATE. As cheesy as it sound, it's true.
Oh and Yoshi's Island is amazing. I remember playing it on my work, among dozen of my colleagues (almost) crying of the levels of awesome and not even giving a ****. It was that awesome. I had similar experience with christmas level in Elite Beat Agents, only then i was bawling, again it was worth it.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on April 09, 2014, 03:39:47 AM
Azeke, you have some valid criticisms, but all games have flaws and I don't think any of them are significant flaws. The fun and benefits of SMB 3 still make it the best SMB in my eyes. But we are talking opinions here and I loved the level designs. I loved the powerups. It's a game I can pop in with many of my childhood friends and we instantly have a great time.
The physics are a little floatier than today's games, but it is still spot on and easy to adjust to. I'm surprised that Yoshi's Island is so great to you because I thought that was a very flawed game and had meh level design. I also didn't like it how it became like Sonic (grab the rings never die, grab the baby never die). And game made you grind replaying the levels to find each item becoming more of a search and find game than a difficult platforming game like the Mario's before it. But that's opinions for you everybody has one and none are more valid than others.
I will say the biggest flaw you have is one that people that lived through playing at that time will never see. Some of the puzzles are difficult to find and there are few clues. Back in the day, gaming was mainly for children and I was one of them. Being a child I was at the whim of my parents for my gaming habits and surprise, they didn't value gaming as much as me. I'm guessing most people in their mid 30's like me had a similar experience. Long story short, I used to get 2-3 games per year. Those games had to last me all year (I did do some other things). I've beaten SMB3 in less than 30 minutes with warps. I'm not sure how long beating every level takes but it probably takes about 8 hours. So what I'm saying is it was a joy to fully explore the levels and uncover the hidden gems within the levels. It was fun to go back and do multiple play throughs. Most people that played the game back in the day have fully explored the levels and we just aren't getting to get stuck in the game at this point. That's what makes it so great though, is I still have fun and annually go back and beat it again anyway.
Oh, and it's nice that you are saying spread love, not hate. But you did come off quite strong and gave the impression that you couldn't understand why anyone would like the game. Maybe not your intent to spread hate, but that's certainly what it came off as. And I'll be the first to admit that I've youtubed NSMB games to find some of the hidden coins. I resort to this for most modern games for some completionist factor and you really shouldn't feel defeated by it.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on April 09, 2014, 03:59:58 AM
Back on topic. I think alot of retro games hold up excellently today. Yeah, there's some broken games, but I still feel that the Mario's, Zelda's, Metroids, Contra, etc. hold up excellent compared to today. I think early 3D looks terrible so the N64 is hard to play in general. But if I can get past the headaches those games give me, they are fundamentally sound.
Better/worse than today? The only thing gauranteed to be better is the graphics. Physics usually are tweaked, level design is changed, and powerups are changed, but fundamentally NSMB might as well be Super Mario Bros 4, 5, 6. The only big changes are when 2D games become 3D games and lots of times they lose their identity and become worse games. Sometimes they are great games such as Mario 64, but that really makes it hard to compare to the 2D Mario's.
My love of Nintendo started when I didn't get an NES. I was obsessed with pulling all-nighters with friends or playing it at family members houses. Mario and Mega Man were awesome but really Techmo Super Bowl was the game I'd play the most. Since I didn't have a system, my friends and I would try to do one season in one night. Sometimes we'd make it, sometimes not.
Then my parents got me a SNES with the Mario All-Stars, Mario World, and Zelda. I beat them all and loved every minute. I got to play with my sister alot too which was great. I never really owned alot of games, but there had to be several games that I rented out (when that was a thing) multiple times and the library was just outstanding. Playstation became popular when I was in college. While the "mature" marketing certainly worked for them I was always kind of turned off by it. I didn't think I needed to play a mature game to feel like a man, and FPS are my least favorite genre so that was never a reason to leave Nintendo. Then I bought my first console (a Gamecube) and I just loved it cementing a place for Nintendo in my heart.
Props to Adrock. "I feel the exact opposite way you do. GameCube, to me, is Nintendo's strongest console after SNES (N64 is close behind). It has three of the best games I've ever played (Melee, Prime, and RE4)."
Gamecube just doesn't get enough love. I missed the N64 first time around so getting Double Dash, Zelda Collector's Disc, Rogue Squadron, Mario Tennis/Golf were awesome for me too. Plus, the first time I played Remake I knew I had to get the rest of the survival horror series because that was brilliant. Throw in Wind Waker, Pikmin, Monkey Ball, Eternal Darkness, and it had a great library. I have 80+ games for it, I could go longer but I'll move on.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on April 09, 2014, 10:48:01 AM
That's why Zelda 1 is still my favourite because it has no bullshit puzzles that stop my progress completely.
Doesn't Zelda 1 rely in part on bombing random sections of wall to find things? Admittedly I have never finished this game and what I have played has been with a guide so, please to ignore me.
It's the worst feeling in the world when you have to google the walkthrough for Mario/Zelda game. You feel like the dumbest person in the world while doing so and somehow feel even dumber and sometimes cheated once you're shown the solution.
When I resort to looking up solutions, its not the worst feeling. It usually makes me laugh at how simple the solution was that I somehow missed. I think you just need to stop being so hard on yourself and love yourself more.
Oh and Yoshi's Island is amazing. I remember playing it on my work, among dozen of my colleagues (almost) crying of the levels of awesome and not even giving a ****. It was that awesome. I had similar experience with christmas level in Elite Beat Agents, only then i was bawling, again it was worth it.
This. This is awesome.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Oblivion on April 10, 2014, 01:59:04 AM
Isn't posting "on topic" somewhere "within the rules"?
Maybe? Honestly, haven't read them lately, and I'm pretty sure they've been modified/rewritten in the meantime due to the actions of one of my predecessors. Technically, though, my position is "Community Manager," which is fairly vague and sufficiently open-ended, without any messy "duties" or "obligations."
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Phil on April 11, 2014, 04:15:59 PM
Well, it may be off-topic, but it was an interesting discussion to read all the same! :)
Anyway, to answer the original topic, I remember looking over my brother's shoulder as he played our new Game Boy we got for Christmas. He was playing both Super Mario Land and then TMNT: Back from the Sewers, I think is what that was called. I know I was, like, "When can I play?" in my cute 4-year-old voice.
Some of my favorite moments that Nintendo helped shape were playing Pokemon for the first time in middle school, being totally addicted to it, buying all the toys, buying all the cards, recording every episode of the anime, and drawing my own fan-fiction comic books.
I remember arriving with my mom early in the morning for both the GameCube and Wii launches. The GameCube one was a cold November morning on a Sunday, and it was raining outside the Toys 'R Us. As for the Wii, it was a much easier experience. We waited in line at Target for about an hour, and then we got a ticket ensuring us of getting the system. All we had to do was come back in an hour to pick it up and select our games. We got six games, not including Wii Sports. It was a magical occasion for both launches.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Khushrenada on April 11, 2014, 04:20:35 PM
Considering it now makes up a large majority of this thread, I'd say it is on-topic and that your post is now off-topic since it doesn't deal with the long conversation on hand.
Stay on topic people.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Phil on April 11, 2014, 04:23:32 PM
Agh! I still don't do this message board thing well! :'(
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Khushrenada on April 11, 2014, 04:29:57 PM
Isn't posting "on topic" somewhere "within the rules"?
Maybe? Honestly, haven't read them lately, and I'm pretty sure they've been modified/rewritten in the meantime due to the actions of one of my predecessors. Technically, though, my position is "Community Manager," which is fairly vague and sufficiently open-ended, without any messy "duties" or "obligations."
Poor guy is just hoping that no one notices him and/or that he has no idea what his function is so that he can keeping cashing those NWR paycheques for nothing. Nothing like getting lost in the shuffle!
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 11, 2014, 05:30:46 PM
The great thing is that even with that beautifully selective bolding, you barely managed to make that sound worse, if at all.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Khushrenada on April 11, 2014, 05:43:16 PM
Ha ha! It's true. I was wondering if it was even worth bolding the parts I did because it didn't seem to be as big a difference as I thought it would.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: nickmitch on April 11, 2014, 10:41:41 PM
IF THE MODS DON'T KNOW THE RULES HOW CAN WE EXPECT THEM TO APPROPRIATELY ENFORCE THEM?!
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: Khushrenada on April 11, 2014, 11:01:29 PM
IF THE MODS DON'T KNOW THE RULES HOW CAN WE EXPECT THEM TO APPROPRIATELY ENFORCE THEM?!
You can't and should never have.
Title: Re: Nintendo systems old and new
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on April 12, 2014, 09:44:07 PM
Well I was gone for a couple of days moving to a new house I get back in time to see my thread turned into an argument over how terrible Super Mario Bros. 3 is?
I call BS on it being purely nostalgia because I have neices and nephews who are kids TODAY that love that game, kids who have plenty of other modern games to play who still like coming to my house to play those old games. I find it more odd that as much as they all like SMB3 and SMW, its the first to I can't get any of them interested in at all. I also can't get them into Zelda either they prefer Ninja Gaiden which is fine by me.
The only game system Nintendo ever made that I regret selling and miss dearly to this day is the Game Cube. They have been consistent enough with re-releasing their must have games from NES to N64 but it seems like all the greats from Game Cube are ignored for no good reason.
I will say this, SMB3 was good enough to get a 90 minute theatrically released commercial show me any other game in history that can make that claim.
