Author Topic: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think  (Read 21829 times)

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Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« on: February 09, 2013, 10:03:14 PM »

Why Nintendo has third party relations all wrong.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/33255

As if the future was too bright for Nintendo’s new console, we learned this week that Ubisoft delayed Rayman Legends, its seemingly high-quality, Wii U-exclusive platformer, seven months to port it to the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. Judging by the reaction on our own forums and across the Internet, this was a punch to the gut for Wii U owners, and for Nintendo itself.

We’ll likely never know the events that led to this decision, the internal thinking at Ubisoft, or how much Nintendo knew and when. All we know is that the Wii U’s already weak first quarter just got a lot weaker, and there doesn’t seem to be anything Nintendo could have done about it.


It’s especially telling that this was Ubisoft. EA possibly dropping Madden from the platform isn’t that surprising given the rumors of fallout between the two companies, but going back to E3 last year, Nintendo and Ubisoft seemed like the best of friends, featuring prominently in each other’s booths and presentation materials. If a few bad months could scare them away, what hope was there?

Over the last few console generations, we’ve seen Nintendo make more and more effort to court third-party developers, and support has, at best, remained the same, if not taken steps back in certain ways. What has Nintendo accomplished trying to accommodate publishers who have shown almost no interest in giving its hardware more than marginal support?

I think it’s time for Nintendo to embrace the fact that people buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo’s own software. It should stop holding back its own development to make room for third party-support that will never come, and instead blow everyone away with the sheer force of its own weight.

If nobody wants to support Nintendo, it needs to step up to the plate and support itself by expanding its own development studios, forging more partnerships with smaller third-party developers, and creating a platform that attracts as many independent developers as is possible. If it’s not going to get the third parties’ support, Nintendo needs to put itself in a position where that’s not needed If anyone in this business can pull that off, my money’s on Nintendo. It just needs to go for it.

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Offline broodwars

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 10:21:18 PM »
Hmm...strange: I find myself rejecting your premise (that Nintendo needs to stop trying to cater to 3rd parties because it doesn't seem to matter) yet I wholeheartedly agree with your conclusion that Nintendo needs to be more proactive as a platform holder by expanding its development studios and reaching out to smaller developers.

The way the Wii U has shaped out so far, 3rd parties were there at the launch and from the looks of things Nintendo's console hasn't inspired 3rd party sales so far.  With nothing inspiring coming in the near future, I'm not surprised to see 3rd parties being so gun-shy about its prospects.  Without a serious exchange of cash or the sudden unveiling of major new 1st party titles coming in the near future, I'm not sure how that can change, either.
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Offline joshnickerson

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 10:28:06 PM »
I think it's high time Nintendo simply said to third party developers "F**k us? No, no, no. F**k YOU."

No matter how much Nintendo attempts to cater to third parties, even going so far as to publish the games themselves, third parties always act like it's such a f**king CHORE to develop something that ISN'T a Microsoft or Sony product or even, dare I say, ORIGINAL?

Offline supergtt

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 10:31:51 PM »
I'm gonna echo broodwars and say "why not both?"

Of course, the problem with nintendo is systemic, they are stuck in 1994 it seems like sometimes. I feel new blood in charge and a serious attempt to release on par hardware next gen will go a ways to heal their ills.

in this gen, drop the basic set, get their heads out of their ass on digital, profit.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 10:33:13 PM »
No matter how much Nintendo attempts to cater to third parties, even going so far as to publish the games themselves, third parties always act like it's such a f**king CHORE to develop something that ISN'T a Microsoft or Sony product or even, dare I say, ORIGINAL?

Oh come now. Do you really expect "ORIGINAL" software on a Nintendo platform, a company driven by pure nostalgia?  :P:

Besides, the era of 3rd party exclusives is just about over on the other 2 HD platforms as well, these days limited to pretty much Epic games, the Splinter Cell franchise, downloadable games, and DLC. It's unusual that the Wii U launched with a 3rd party exclusive at all.

I think we can agree that if the Wii U had a better launch lineup, especially from Nintendo, the console would probably not be in the toxic situation it is now.  It needed more than ZombiU and another New Super Mario Bros. game.  And considering how absent Nintendo was in the final years of the Wii, I have to imagine diversion of resources to 3DS is the only explanation for why that launch wasn't better.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 10:38:03 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 10:37:08 PM »
I agree and I think that Nintendo should have done this on the Wii but, seeing that the WiiU is turning into Gamecube 2, Where's my indigo?, then definitely.  Just go whole hog as the first party power house they are.
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Offline supergtt

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 10:41:19 PM »
No matter how much Nintendo attempts to cater to third parties, even going so far as to publish the games themselves, third parties always act like it's such a f**king CHORE to develop something that ISN'T a Microsoft or Sony product or even, dare I say, ORIGINAL?

Oh come now. Do you really expect "ORIGINAL" software on a Nintendo platform, a company driven by pure nostalgia?  :P: : : : :

Besides, the era of 3rd party exclusives is just about over on the other 2 HD platforms as well, these days limited to pretty much Epic games, the Splinter Cell franchise, downloadable games, and DLC. It's unusual that the Wii U launched with a 3rd party exclusive at all.

I think we can agree that if the Wii U had a better launch lineup, especially from Nintendo, the console would probably not be in the toxic situation it is now.  It needed more than ZombiU and another New Super Mario Bros. game.

honestly, I feel like no matter what, they were gonna have this problem with droughts and 3rd party issues.

Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2013, 10:49:24 PM »
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Offline Fjurbanski

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 10:50:33 PM »
I can pretty much agree. What I want to see is Nintendo expand on what they're doing right now. They've got the tried and true, they've got 3rd party exclusives that they're paying for, and they've got some experimental stuff.

So we get 3D Mario, Mario Kart, etc. We get Bayonetta 2 and W101. We get Shin Megami X Fire Emblem and who knows what those new IPs Miyamoto is working on. Add on to that the eshop, and indie devs have been saying for a while that Nintendo is treating them very well. All they have to do is keep doing what they're doing right now, just do it more and maybe a little faster. And keep localizing great games like Xenoblade and Fire Emblem. Then there will be a ton of great, unique games that you can't get anywhere else. They just need to build momentum (which should be built this year) and then keep going. Don't stop. That was my main problem with the Wii. The Wii had great games, but eventually they just... stopped. Why? They can't do that again.

And then who knows, maybe they'll also figure out a way to get good 3rd party support. But I'm confident they can satisfy people if they just increase the pace and then remain consistent.
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Offline Vahne

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 10:59:09 PM »
Multi-plats from third parties would be nice, but I mostly want Nintendo to work on expanding their development studios even more to accommodate more games for development and to court more indies to work on their platforms (which they seem to be doing a pretty good job). Having devs make exclusives for them would be nice, too. Wii had plenty of nice exclusives (many of which were ignored by many gamers, but were great nonetheless).

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 11:07:00 PM »
This NWR article makes a great compliment to this Pietriots article.
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Offline joshnickerson

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 11:14:03 PM »
Oh come now. Do you really expect "ORIGINAL" software on a Nintendo platform, a company driven by pure nostalgia?  :P: :

I was referring to the half-assed ports that plague Nintendo consoles.

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2013, 11:27:59 PM »
This NWR article makes a great compliment to this Pietriots article.

The amazing thing is my article is both doing exactly what that one said not to do and largely in full agreement with it.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 11:35:00 PM »
Oh come now. Do you really expect "ORIGINAL" software on a Nintendo platform, a company driven by pure nostalgia?  :P: : : : :

I was referring to the half-assed ports that plague Nintendo consoles.

I knew what you were referring to, but ports are how the business is these days outside of the 1st party platform exclusives and I've certainly seen my share of bad ones on PS3 as well (HELLOOOOOOOOOOO, Bethesda nurse!). Also, console launches in general are well-known for rushed ports, as companies have had a very limited time with the hardware (especially when apparently Nintendo kept changing the Wii U's until very late before launch).  It certainly doesn't help that Nintendo was launching near-current-generation hardware at the end of the current console life cycle when everyone else was gearing-up for the next.

I do find it hilarious, though, that you were crying out for original 3rd party games on a platform you probably bought for the same franchises you've played a billion times before.

As I said before, 3rd party exclusives are rare on any console right now. Ports are common on all platforms in all states of quality.  That's just how the business is.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 11:37:25 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2013, 12:17:20 AM »
I am looking at all these great games that are coming to other consoles like Metal Gear Rising, Lords of Shadow 2, Crysis 3, Killer is Dead, GTA 5, and with no Wii U version in sight. To add insult to injury, many of the developers of these games scoff at the idea of making games for the Wii U. The main reason for this is because the Wii U's install base is small and they have been burned too many times on Nintendo consoles. Why should EA port Dead Space 3 to the Wii U when DS: Extraction only sold 9,000 copies on the oriiginal Wii?
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Offline azeke

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2013, 12:38:40 AM »
I am looking at all these great games that are coming to other consoles like Metal Gear Rising, Lords of Shadow 2, Crysis 3, Killer is Dead, GTA 5, and with no Wii U version in sight. To add insult to injury, many of the developers of these games scoff at the idea of making games for the Wii U. The main reason for this is because the Wii U's install base is small and they have been burned too many times on Nintendo consoles.
In case of all the games you listed it's not about the sales.

All 2013 games were in development for years and if dev and publisher had the slightest interest in Wii U they could allocate some resources no problem.

They just didn't care.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2013, 12:47:15 AM »
If the PS4 and Xbox 72o both have Gamepad controllers of their own then third parties will react as if it is the best thing since sliced bread and they will find many creative ways to support those controllers.
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Offline xcwarrior

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2013, 12:50:07 AM »
We're getting Monster Hunter next month. Beyond that I'm good for awhile. I'm not too concerned right now with all this panic. The system has been out less than 4 months and people are jumping to conclusions.

Why? Cause it's the internet. The land of negativity and the constant need for instant feedback on everything. Well gaming consoles you can't gauge in a 3 month window.

Is Wii U going to be another Wii? No. Is PS4 and Xbox Durango going to come anywhere near sales of PS3/360? Nope. The casual gamer has gone to tablet. We are going to head back to the days where for the most part, it's just a core audience.

Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft are all going to be fine once they realize they all need to innovate more, and stop with trying to run franchises into the ground. Much like the movie industry.

Relax people. There was a panic about the 3DS, it took a year or so, but it has plenty of good games now, and more on the way.
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Offline Mario

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2013, 01:02:10 AM »
Excellent article. A big problem is when Nintendo helps out a third party and they start depending on it.

Another example has surfaced recently in SQUARE-ENIX. They're sitting on Dragon Quest 7, Dragon Quest 10 and Bravely Default waiting for Nintendo to do all the work and publish the games overseas while they tell everyone how awesome Tomb Raider is. It's time we held Square-Enix accountable so Nintendo can focus on their OWN games. They simply can't police the entire industry themselves and we should STOP EXPECTING THEM TO.

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2013, 01:07:53 AM »
It's time we held Square-Enix accountable so Nintendo can focus on their OWN games.

You don't say? :D
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Offline azeke

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2013, 01:17:21 AM »
Wasn't a point in Bravely Default's marketing that it's specifically made with japanese and only japanese audience in mind?

Like they went out of their way to make translation as hard as possible on purpose.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2013, 01:32:04 AM »
I've always wondered if Nintendo locks in these third party developers with iron-clad contracts, then they come begging to Mr. Iwata.

"Iwata-San! We are the poor and miserable Capcom! If we do not port the Capcom Five (four) to the PS2, surely we will perish! ooooooooh"

"I am the great and merciful Iwata! Once too, I was a developer. I have great sympathy for you. Therefore, I will allow you out of your iron clad contract!"

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Offline Traveller

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2013, 02:29:59 AM »
I really like Iwata, but, recently I think he and Nintendo are too nice. A little bit of the old hard-edged Hiroshi Yamauchi style is in order.
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Offline Enner

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2013, 02:56:25 AM »
That Wii 3rd party hall of shame is a real eye-opener.


I hoped that Nintendo had some eShop or Virtual Console releases to plug holes in their calender but that was not to be. Handing out a money hat so that the finished Rayman: Legends is released or handing them out in general isn't cost effective.


While completely blowing off major third party publishers is something to be avoided, I do hope that Nintendo spends some of the gold in its war chest to assist small third party publishers and developers and independent studios in making unique and interesting games to fill spots in calendars. That the "launch window" is an empty one is quite par for course for a system launch: (sort by ascending)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_360_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_3_games
http://www.gamespot.com/games.html?platform=1031&mode=all&sort=release&dlx_type=all&sortdir=desc&official=all&page=0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_3DS_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_Vita_games
(When the 360 and PS3 received The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is when the Wii U, barring unexpected delays, will get Lego City: Undercover)


So expecting Nintendo to change what has been a historical habit of all systems thus far is asking them to defy the norm. Still, it stings much because of the fear that this is a sign of things to come. Iwata's recent statements gives me some hope that Nintendo will make a better, if marginal, result of avoiding software droughts.


I really like Iwata, but, recently I think he and Nintendo are too nice. A little bit of the old hard-edged Hiroshi Yamauchi style is in order.
That would definitely drive third party publishers away.


EDIT: Looking at the release lists again, I am surprised to realize that 2007 for the Wii was pretty much waiting for Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Super Mario Galaxy, and the rest of the fall releases. Apologies to lovers of Super Paper Mario!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 03:05:45 AM by Enner »

Offline Caterkiller

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Re: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2013, 04:09:41 AM »
I would love for Nintendo to be able to just keep a steady supply of high quality software and not have to worry about 3rd parties to fill in the gaps. But realistically how many studios do they have to open to get say 6-10 major games out a year with the smaller titles in between the major ones?  Seems like it would last about a year and half tops before all the developers are knee deep in their next projects with a huge drought in the mean time.


Ideally I would love a Mario/Pikmin/Star Fox/Fire Emblem main series type of game to come at least once every other month with a Mario Kart/Wii Sports/Wave Race/spin off title to fill in the gaps.


Despite the few bones 3rd parties will throw at Wii U this gen, I guess the majority of 3rd parties will still treat Nintendo like crap. Or maybe not, things could completely turn around in a year and bunch of multiplat ps420 games are done with U versions as well.




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