Author Topic: I got to the most backwards university in the world  (Read 5724 times)

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Offline 18 Days

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I got to the most backwards university in the world
« on: August 15, 2007, 05:38:51 AM »
Murdoch University
So yeah. I'm studying Education (Primary or Elementary as you Americans call it) but I'm a pretty broad minded person so I'm taking units (classes) in Computer Science and Environmental Science (Demon-rats and liebrals propoganda am i rite?).

So anyway. Computer Science.

First lab.

We boot up DOS.

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?

Confession: I had never used a command line interface before enrolling in this uni. I didn't know my iBook had a Unix kernal tucked away until I had to login to the uni's mother-flippin' Telnet system at the start of lst year. I was born after 1984, I've used Macs exclusively since 1991, I've always supported forward thinking and also the future.


So what is this joke? I'm typing in ambigoues letter commands to run a program that adds up a couple of numbers? Please don't tell me that this is how they teach intro to Computer Science in other parts of the world.
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Offline UERD

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2007, 05:43:38 AM »
They're teaching you the DOS shell? Don't Computer Science classes usually teach languages like C, C++, or Java?
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2007, 05:45:22 AM »
This isn't how they teach intro to Computer Science in other parts of the world.

You should think on the bright side.  A DOS environment is better for playing old games.

Maybe the school has modern computers for the more advanced classes.  That's not good but if the budget isn't there what do you do?

Offline 18 Days

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2007, 05:54:10 AM »
They're teaching us C yeah, and later Java. it's jsut. We're doing our work IN DOS.
WTF!

And we're doing this on the most powerful computer's the university has. Pentium D go go!

EDIT WITH ANOTHER THOUGHT!

it's probably not entirely co-incidental that Intro to Computer Science is the only unit I'm doing where I can't subscribe to the lectures as podcasts. This truely is stone age crap. How am I meant to fill up my 80gig iPod now?
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2007, 06:03:57 AM »
When I took a class on Java, it was easier to work with Sun's tools in DOS than the other choices we had.  I imagine things have improved since.  Regardless, lern2play nub.

Offline 18 Days

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2007, 06:06:14 AM »
But it's DOS! I refuse to lower myself.
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Offline King of Twitch

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2007, 06:25:51 AM »
Maybe it's just one lousy professor? Do you have any professor rating sites out there in DOStralia  
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Offline bustin98

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RE:I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2007, 06:27:16 AM »
Well, in the real world, you will find companies who still use Windows 3.1.

You still find companies using COBALT.

Learning a command line interface will provide a foundation you can go back to when situations call for it. There are times I wish I knew more about command line usage when trying to troubleshoot my computer issues. The nice thing about it is it requires like zero drivers if you boot to it (depends if you want access to various drives and whatnot).

Trust me, you'll be glad you are learning this. You can't get to the future without going through the past. At least you aren't using computers that are programmed by feeding them strips of hole-punched cards.

Offline UncleBob

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2007, 06:36:14 AM »
bustin is exactly right.  It's like those teachers who "teach" you how to design webpages using FrontPage or some crap program like that, but never showing you a lick of HTML code.  If you cannot work your way around DOS (or have no interest in learning how to), you don't need to be in a computer science class.
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2007, 08:25:34 AM »
DOS??? WTF? Unix commandline would be normal but DOS is so old, can they even get software for that?

Also, intro to computer science on actual computers? 'round here you get your introduction with a Turing machine.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2007, 10:18:09 AM »
DOS for the win.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2007, 11:59:07 AM »
"it's probably not entirely co-incidental that Intro to Computer Science is the only unit I'm doing where I can't subscribe to the lectures as podcasts."

Don't worry.  If you were old like me none of your lectures were available as podcasts.  In fact podcast wasn't even a word!  And I was in college in THIS DECADE!  Hooray for becoming an old fuddy duddy before you're 30!

So bustin98 are you like Bizarro Me or something?  So I guess you would be really into non-games and write short messages and be significantly more popular and successful in life than I am.

I somewhat agree with those here saying that not getting to work with top-of-the-line stuff is realistic but I think DOS is pretty old.  I'm a programmer and I never use DOS at work.  Our clients would have our ass on a platter if we were that far behind.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2007, 12:02:42 PM »
Yeah, don't expect programmers to troubleshoot computers.
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Offline UERD

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RE:I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2007, 12:37:38 PM »
Quote

So bustin98 are you like Bizarro Me or something? So I guess you would be really into non-games and write short messages and be significantly more popular and successful in life than I am.


It's a conspiracy!

Quote

I somewhat agree with those here saying that not getting to work with top-of-the-line stuff is realistic but I think DOS is pretty old. I'm a programmer and I never use DOS at work. Our clients would have our ass on a platter if we were that far behind.


Would the class in question be a general survey/intro class, or would it be a class meant for people who want to major in Computer Science? There is definitely a place for learning how to use the legacy stuff, but is it really necessary to teach basic computer science concepts through a DOS shell or whatnot? (Unless you're typing the code into a text file, compiling it, and then running the code in a console that's running in a DOS-like window...that would be different...or something.)
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Offline Smoke39

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2007, 05:28:36 PM »
All of my programming classes have been with Windows (or whatever OS we use at home).  I often compile in a command line window, but I sure as hell don't code with edit.
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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2007, 05:54:47 PM »
I took a very basic java class at the University of Florida, and they teach you to run the stuff on a command line, which, I believe, is basically DOS.  And yeah, even from that simple experience, I see the value, because you start from the foundation and work your way up.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2007, 07:06:54 PM »
I have this slight feeling that some people confuse bash and DOS.

Offline Shift Key

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RE:I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2007, 01:40:08 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I have this slight feeling that some people confuse bash and DOS.


I'm pretty sure RAB's talking about DOS, as he knows what a Unix prompt looks like. But it sounds like you're stuck on archaic systems at Uni. Its not like a Commodore 64 or something, because that only means one thing - DOS games!

The flip side of this is also my first Computer Science semester.

I'd played around a bit with MS-DOS in my ongoing adventures to break and then unbreak stuff. Hadn't done much programming, played around with this 'Linux' thing that friends had shown me, but mostly a Windows kid. It was required for my degree (Engineering with Maths and Computer Science) so there was no way out.

First-Year students get stuck with a lab full of iMacs. I've been mentally scarred ever since.

To this day I swear those things are just toys for people who are happy to check email and surf the web. It like they took out the soul of an operating system and replaced it with shiny things, because you can't get past the bloody menu.

I know RAB and I have different views of Macs, and have almost come to blows on a regular basis, but it just shows you how strange this big, mostly-empty country is.


Offline Shecky

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2007, 01:49:00 AM »
Please don't call DOS a shell....

Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I have this slight feeling that some people confuse bash and DOS.


On more than one occasion I'll be working in a bash shell and a co-worker/family/someone that may be there watching will say... oh is that UNIX (or Linux)?  Yeah I've used DOS, I don't know how you can stand that!



Quote

Originally posted by: 18 Days
But it's DOS! I refuse to lower myself.


Then get your own x86 machine and load *nix of your choice and program in that... Write some straight C and you won't have issue... (no issues with Java down the road either)

Offline Shecky

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RE:I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2007, 02:12:00 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smoke39
All of my programming classes have been with Windows (or whatever OS we use at home).  I often compile in a command line window, but I sure as hell don't code with edit.


Quote

Originally posted by: thatguy
I took a very basic java class at the University of Florida, and they teach you to run the stuff on a command line, which, I believe, is basically DOS.  And yeah, even from that simple experience, I see the value, because you start from the foundation and work your way up.


You folks need to be enlightened to the world of [g]make, and real shells.

and yeah no sane person would use edit ... they'd use vim! or emacs?  Next Everyone votes question!  Vim or Emacs!

( Hey they have pop vs soda on there now, why not this??  They both leave off an obvious 3rd choice ("Coke" for the current one and "what?" for the suggested question) )

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2007, 02:21:58 AM »
Actually the third option for Vi vs. Emacs is CowboyNeal.

Offline Smoke39

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2007, 11:30:37 AM »
One of my programming teachers at DigiPen (the one that got fired) made us write a simple program with our choice of vi or emacs in cygwin.  I cried. ):
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Offline Shift Key

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RE:I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2007, 05:41:13 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Shecky
Next Everyone votes question!  Vim or Emacs!


That's like asking which form of self-inflicted torture is preferable!

emacs but only just, i've been spoilt by GUIs

 

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2007, 08:22:18 PM »
Er, GUIs? Emacs has no GUI, maybe you're using xEmacs or what it's called but then you have to compare with gVim.

Offline Shift Key

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RE:I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2007, 10:33:55 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Er, GUIs? Emacs has no GUI, maybe you're using xEmacs or what it's called but then you have to compare with gVim.


Nah, I wasn't referring to xEmacs. Its just that emacs reminds me of a GUI app much more than vim (which was like throwing me into the deep end of obscure keyboard shortcuts)

These days my OSS coding is done with KWrite, which is "just right" in terms of functionality. Except I do miss the emacs "indent region" function which turns my ugly code pretty.

Offline Shecky

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RE: I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2007, 12:55:26 AM »
I'm not sure how one argues obscure keyboard shortcuts between vim and emacs  They're both guilty, with emacs likely a little more so than vim, but that's likely just my opinion since I'm more fluent and use vim for normal editing.

However, I get what your saying that emacs seems more of an gui app (as commands have a almost menu like structure to them) and it isn't line based like vim, which likely makes it a bit more sensible as a general text editor.  There used to be more benefits to emacs as well, however vim has advanced to kind of close the gap between the two (although the fundamental line editor mentality is always there).

Offline BiLdItUp1

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RE:I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2007, 04:20:22 AM »
I like nano...but so far at my uni,  I haven't really used command-line tools or a UNIX shell (just plain old JCreator).
I suspect that'll change soon as I'm gonna do a bunch of C and x86 assembler this fall, not Java so much.
...I've never heard of a uni using DOS though...is the CompSci department small? Maybe that'll explain reluctance to upgrade (that still baffles me though)
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Offline Flames_of_chaos

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RE:I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2007, 02:25:19 PM »
Hmm in my intro to Java class we use a combo of Notepad,Textpad, Eclipse, Jbuilder or whatever we want as long as we get the code to work. I'm not too woried since I'm a Computer Networking major so the most programing I usually do is programming Cisco routers, firewalls and PIXes in the labs at school via Hyperterminal.
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Offline Shift Key

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RE:I got to the most backwards university in the world
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2007, 02:41:18 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Shecky
They're both guilty, with emacs likely a little more so than vim, but that's likely just my opinion since I'm more fluent and use vim for normal editing.


Yeah, its probably a bit of bias because I just never got into vi/m at uni. To each their own...