Author Topic: san??  (Read 4684 times)

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Offline loserfish13

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san??
« on: March 14, 2003, 01:49:59 PM »
what does san at the end of Japanese people's names mean? ex. Miyamoto-san.
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Offline Tman

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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2003, 06:27:24 PM »
Here are some of the common honorifics....

-san, all purpose, english equivilent; Mr. Mrs.

-sama, used for those much higher in status than oneself, english equivilent; lord

-chan, used in refrence to females, usually with those younger than oneself or a romatic intrest, English equivilent; the best i can do with this one is give an example, i.e. Becky-poo.

-kun, same as chan only used in refrence to males

-dono, i'm not sure on this one but i think it is how you would refer to a servant, i'm pretty sure that it carries a negitive conotation in modern use.

-rin, i've heard it used but i don't know what it means.

for a little explination on the whole thing, here is an exerpt from one of my texts.

The Japanese have developed an entire system of honorific language, called keigo, that is used to show a speaker's respect for the person being spoken to. This involves different levels of speech, and the proficient user of keigo has a wide range of words and expressions from which to choose, in order to produce just the desired degree of politeness. A simple sentence could be expressed in more than 20 different ways depending on the status of the speaker relative to the person being addressed.

Deciding on an appropriate level of polite speech can be quite challenging, since relative status is determined by a complex combination of factors, such as social status, rank, age, gender, even favors done or owed. There is a neutral or middle-ground level of language that is used when 2 people meet for the first time, are not aware of each other's group affiliation, and whose social standing appears to be similar (that is, no obvious differences in dress or manner). In general, women tend to speak a more polite style of language than men, and to use it in a broader range of circumstances.

Mastery of keigo is by no means simple, and some Japanese are much more proficient in it than others. The almost countless honorific terms are found in various parts of speech-nouns, adjectives, verbs, and adverbs. So-called exalted terms are used when referring to the addressee and things directly associated with him or her, such as relatives, the house, or possessions. By contrast, there are special humble terms that one uses as the speaker, when referring to oneself or things associated with oneself. It is the distance created by these 2 contrasting modes that expresses the proper attitude of respect for the person being spoken to.


There I hope that was much more information than you wanted.(better than giving less)  

Offline BlkPaladin

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san??
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2003, 03:51:04 AM »
-san is also a term of respect for someone who is older than you such as a brother or relitive. I heard this reference among children also, I think its used for a person you respect. (My sister should refer to me as -san but she refers to me a -kun)

-kun is usally used for people of the same age. It really doesn't have a romantic conntation unless you are refering to a person of the opisite sex and you are fuly grown. Is also used in the family for older siblings or members (cousins, nefews, neices). (My sister who is two years younger than me I would refer to as kun)

-chan is used for children. This has the connotation of cutie if you use it outside an age barrier. (My youngest brother could be refered to as chan just because he is the baby, he is 18)
 
-bochan for little children. (English Super cutie???)

-dono is the name for master. Its what a servent calls his master who really has no importance (Money/Land).

-Sama is  Lady or Lord usally someone of importance. Not really master.    
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Offline Grey Ninja

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san??
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2003, 09:13:30 AM »
Well, even though the question has been answered to death, I MUST give my own answer (albeit brief).

San is simply a word that you use after someone's name.  In Japan, everyone is referred to by their last name, so I suppose that an english equivalent would be Mr./Ms./Mrs., but you must understand that there is more to it than that.  For example, if I were to go to Japan, I might be referred to as Dave-san, rather than Brady-san.  Mr. Dave doesn't make much sense now does it?  It doesn't have a direct translation to English, but I am sure that by now you have long since gotten the point.  

And Miyamoto-sama is not a san.  
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Offline RickPowers

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san??
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2003, 11:28:33 AM »
And by now, you should all realize what a collosal misstep in etiquette it was when Nintendojo addressed Miyamoto as "Miyamoto-sama" at E3 a couple years back.  It was a faux-pas of gigantic proportions, because coming from a gaijin it was viewed as an insult.
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Offline Gibdo Master

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san??
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2003, 11:39:25 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: RickPowers
And by now, you should all realize what a collosal misstep in etiquette it was when Nintendojo addressed Miyamoto as "Miyamoto-sama" at E3 a couple years back.  It was a faux-pas of gigantic proportions, because coming from a gaijin it was viewed as an insult.
That whole thing was an insult period. The boys at nintendojo.com are idiots. Once and a while they get some interesting news and their forums are pretty good but any time they have an editorial it's just turns into a complete embarrassment for them since they are always based on outright lies, BS, rumors, and fanboy crap and are almost always completely pointless. Hell, even the nintendojo.com regulars bitch about them.  
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Offline Grey Ninja

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san??
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2003, 12:34:19 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: RickPowers
And by now, you should all realize what a collosal misstep in etiquette it was when Nintendojo addressed Miyamoto as "Miyamoto-sama" at E3 a couple years back.  It was a faux-pas of gigantic proportions, because coming from a gaijin it was viewed as an insult.


I might be a gaijin, but I try to be as Japanese as possible.  
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Offline Dirk Temporo

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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2003, 06:22:18 PM »
I agree with Grey Ninja. You know they're still laughing over the fact that they beat us 29-4 in baseball only a few years after they learned the game... I still try to be Japanese though. And my best friend tries to be Chinese. Guan Yu anyone?
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Offline Grey Ninja

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san??
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2003, 06:42:14 PM »
Anata wa otaku desu ne?  
Once I had, a little game
I liked to crawl back into my brain
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Offline RickPowers

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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2003, 07:08:29 PM »
One of my "life goals" is to spend a year in Japan.  One of my wife's friends is doing that right now, teaching "American Culture" in Japan.  I am so jealous I can hardly stand it.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2003, 07:19:13 PM »
Japanese culture is mesmorizing. O_O My dad was in the military and I lived in Okinawa (technically not Japanese- they get pissed off if you call them anything other than Ryukens or Okinawans) for 3 years and loved it. Everything is so deeply rooted in history and traditions streching back hundreds and hundreds of years. I'd give anything just to live there again (I'm in Kansas now- ANYTHING has to be better). That's actually one reason Shenmue is one of my favorite games of all time- it's such an accurate depiction of Japanese culture and lifestyles.
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Offline rodtod

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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2003, 09:17:21 AM »
Rick, does this friend happen to be the character Largo from the comic strip Megatokyo?

(you know, Largo teaches "L33T" in Japan, when he's supposed to be an English professor)
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Offline Grey Ninja

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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2003, 02:05:36 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: RickPowers
One of my "life goals" is to spend a year in Japan.  One of my wife's friends is doing that right now, teaching "American Culture" in Japan.  I am so jealous I can hardly stand it.


I am learning the Japanese language, with the hopes of one day being able to spend some time in Japan comfortably, but I don't know how that will turn out.
Once I had, a little game
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Online ThePerm

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san??
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2003, 06:54:16 AM »
i dislike waiting for translations of cartoons, movies and games. Iv been learnig slowly the characters.
Iv lerarned some katakana...im trying to learn it all in a series. What really angers em is when peopel tlel me its a waste of time to learn katakana...thats like tleling people not to learn the letters m-z. I figure i moigth as well learn everything i can.
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Offline Grey Ninja

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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2003, 05:14:11 AM »
I haven't really learned much Katakana, but I can usually make a good guess what a word is by looking at it.  I know Hiragana pretty well, and can read and write it fairly well.  I can write Hiragana about as well as I can write English at this point.  Kanji... well...  I can read maybe 30-40, and write about 5.
Once I had, a little game
I liked to crawl back into my brain
I think you know the game I mean

Offline Uncle Rich AiAi

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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2003, 11:22:39 PM »
i'm seriously thinking of learning Japanese b/c i come across it too often (blame it on video games and anime).  i would take a course.

why is there more than one type (hiragana and katakana) and what's the difference?  thanks

Offline Grey Ninja

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« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2003, 09:37:04 PM »
Hiragana - Basic alphabet.  You can spell any Japanese word using these 46 characters (and variations), but it is rather simplistic, and isn't as elegant as the full Kanji alphabet.

Katakana - Primarily used to spell foreign words, but can be used for emphasis (such as bolding in english).

Kanji - Alphabet borrowed from China.  This one is just insane.  with over 3000 characters, hardly anybody actually learns the full set.  However, native speakers of Japanese find this character set to be convenient, as a great deal of meaning in a sentence can be given in a few characters, and the style is much more elegant than mere hiragana.

I am just finishing up my first year of Japanese instruction, and I have to say that I begin to hate the language a little more every day.  Nevertheless, I am actually starting to speak it with a little bit of fluency, so I am sticking with it.

BTW, I asked my Japanese Professor if using sama could be considered rude if you were a gaijin, and she told me that it was a great deal more formal than you would use in everyday speech, but it wouldn't be considered rude.  I have no idea what is up with the story that Rick hinted about.  Methinks that something else was up with that.
Once I had, a little game
I liked to crawl back into my brain
I think you know the game I mean