Post by: 18 Days on August 15, 2007, 05:38:51 AM
So yeah. I'm studying Education (Primary or Elementary as you Americans call it) but I'm a pretty broad minded person so I'm taking units (classes) in Computer Science and Environmental Science (Demon-rats and liebrals propoganda am i rite?).
So anyway. Computer Science.
First lab.
We boot up DOS.
WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?
Confession: I had never used a command line interface before enrolling in this uni. I didn't know my iBook had a Unix kernal tucked away until I had to login to the uni's mother-flippin' Telnet system at the start of lst year. I was born after 1984, I've used Macs exclusively since 1991, I've always supported forward thinking and also the future.
So what is this joke? I'm typing in ambigoues letter commands to run a program that adds up a couple of numbers? Please don't tell me that this is how they teach intro to Computer Science in other parts of the world.
Post by: UERD on August 15, 2007, 05:43:38 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on August 15, 2007, 05:45:22 AM
You should think on the bright side. A DOS environment is better for playing old games.
Maybe the school has modern computers for the more advanced classes. That's not good but if the budget isn't there what do you do?
Post by: 18 Days on August 15, 2007, 05:54:10 AM
WTF!
And we're doing this on the most powerful computer's the university has. Pentium D go go!
EDIT WITH ANOTHER THOUGHT!
it's probably not entirely co-incidental that Intro to Computer Science is the only unit I'm doing where I can't subscribe to the lectures as podcasts. This truely is stone age crap. How am I meant to fill up my 80gig iPod now?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 15, 2007, 06:03:57 AM
Post by: 18 Days on August 15, 2007, 06:06:14 AM
Post by: King of Twitch on August 15, 2007, 06:25:51 AM
Post by: bustin98 on August 15, 2007, 06:27:16 AM
You still find companies using COBALT.
Learning a command line interface will provide a foundation you can go back to when situations call for it. There are times I wish I knew more about command line usage when trying to troubleshoot my computer issues. The nice thing about it is it requires like zero drivers if you boot to it (depends if you want access to various drives and whatnot).
Trust me, you'll be glad you are learning this. You can't get to the future without going through the past. At least you aren't using computers that are programmed by feeding them strips of hole-punched cards.
Post by: UncleBob on August 15, 2007, 06:36:14 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on August 15, 2007, 08:25:34 AM
Also, intro to computer science on actual computers? 'round here you get your introduction with a Turing machine.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 15, 2007, 10:18:09 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on August 15, 2007, 11:59:07 AM
Don't worry. If you were old like me none of your lectures were available as podcasts. In fact podcast wasn't even a word! And I was in college in THIS DECADE! Hooray for becoming an old fuddy duddy before you're 30!
So bustin98 are you like Bizarro Me or something? So I guess you would be really into non-games and write short messages and be significantly more popular and successful in life than I am.
I somewhat agree with those here saying that not getting to work with top-of-the-line stuff is realistic but I think DOS is pretty old. I'm a programmer and I never use DOS at work. Our clients would have our ass on a platter if we were that far behind.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 15, 2007, 12:02:42 PM
Post by: UERD on August 15, 2007, 12:37:38 PM
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So bustin98 are you like Bizarro Me or something? So I guess you would be really into non-games and write short messages and be significantly more popular and successful in life than I am.
It's a conspiracy!
Quote
I somewhat agree with those here saying that not getting to work with top-of-the-line stuff is realistic but I think DOS is pretty old. I'm a programmer and I never use DOS at work. Our clients would have our ass on a platter if we were that far behind.
Would the class in question be a general survey/intro class, or would it be a class meant for people who want to major in Computer Science? There is definitely a place for learning how to use the legacy stuff, but is it really necessary to teach basic computer science concepts through a DOS shell or whatnot? (Unless you're typing the code into a text file, compiling it, and then running the code in a console that's running in a DOS-like window...that would be different...or something.)
Post by: Smoke39 on August 15, 2007, 05:28:36 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on August 15, 2007, 05:54:47 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on August 15, 2007, 07:06:54 PM
Post by: Shift Key on August 16, 2007, 01:40:08 AM
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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I have this slight feeling that some people confuse bash and DOS.
I'm pretty sure RAB's talking about DOS, as he knows what a Unix prompt looks like. But it sounds like you're stuck on archaic systems at Uni. Its not like a Commodore 64 or something, because that only means one thing - DOS games!
The flip side of this is also my first Computer Science semester.
I'd played around a bit with MS-DOS in my ongoing adventures to break and then unbreak stuff. Hadn't done much programming, played around with this 'Linux' thing that friends had shown me, but mostly a Windows kid. It was required for my degree (Engineering with Maths and Computer Science) so there was no way out.
First-Year students get stuck with a lab full of iMacs. I've been mentally scarred ever since.
To this day I swear those things are just toys for people who are happy to check email and surf the web. It like they took out the soul of an operating system and replaced it with shiny things, because you can't get past the bloody menu.
I know RAB and I have different views of Macs, and have almost come to blows on a regular basis, but it just shows you how strange this big, mostly-empty country is.
Post by: Shecky on August 16, 2007, 01:49:00 AM
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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I have this slight feeling that some people confuse bash and DOS.
On more than one occasion I'll be working in a bash shell and a co-worker/family/someone that may be there watching will say... oh is that UNIX (or Linux)? Yeah I've used DOS, I don't know how you can stand that!
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Originally posted by: 18 Days
But it's DOS! I refuse to lower myself.
Then get your own x86 machine and load *nix of your choice and program in that... Write some straight C and you won't have issue... (no issues with Java down the road either)
Post by: Shecky on August 16, 2007, 02:12:00 AM
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Originally posted by: Smoke39
All of my programming classes have been with Windows (or whatever OS we use at home). I often compile in a command line window, but I sure as hell don't code with edit.
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Originally posted by: thatguy
I took a very basic java class at the University of Florida, and they teach you to run the stuff on a command line, which, I believe, is basically DOS. And yeah, even from that simple experience, I see the value, because you start from the foundation and work your way up.
You folks need to be enlightened to the world of [g]make, and real shells.
and yeah no sane person would use edit ... they'd use vim! or emacs? Next Everyone votes question! Vim or Emacs!
( Hey they have pop vs soda on there now, why not this?? They both leave off an obvious 3rd choice ("Coke" for the current one and "what?" for the suggested question) )
Post by: KDR_11k on August 16, 2007, 02:21:58 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on August 16, 2007, 11:30:37 AM
Post by: Shift Key on August 16, 2007, 05:41:13 PM
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Originally posted by: Shecky
Next Everyone votes question! Vim or Emacs!
That's like asking which form of self-inflicted torture is preferable!
emacs but only just, i've been spoilt by GUIs
Post by: KDR_11k on August 16, 2007, 08:22:18 PM
Post by: Shift Key on August 16, 2007, 10:33:55 PM
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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Er, GUIs? Emacs has no GUI, maybe you're using xEmacs or what it's called but then you have to compare with gVim.
Nah, I wasn't referring to xEmacs. Its just that emacs reminds me of a GUI app much more than vim (which was like throwing me into the deep end of obscure keyboard shortcuts)
These days my OSS coding is done with KWrite, which is "just right" in terms of functionality. Except I do miss the emacs "indent region" function which turns my ugly code pretty.
Post by: Shecky on August 17, 2007, 12:55:26 AM
They're both guilty, with emacs likely a little more so than vim, but that's likely just my opinion since I'm more fluent and use vim for normal editing.However, I get what your saying that emacs seems more of an gui app (as commands have a almost menu like structure to them) and it isn't line based like vim, which likely makes it a bit more sensible as a general text editor. There used to be more benefits to emacs as well, however vim has advanced to kind of close the gap between the two (although the fundamental line editor mentality is always there).
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on August 17, 2007, 04:20:22 AM
I suspect that'll change soon as I'm gonna do a bunch of C and x86 assembler this fall, not Java so much.
...I've never heard of a uni using DOS though...is the CompSci department small? Maybe that'll explain reluctance to upgrade (that still baffles me though)
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on August 17, 2007, 02:25:19 PM
Post by: Shift Key on August 17, 2007, 02:41:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shecky
They're both guilty, with emacs likely a little more so than vim, but that's likely just my opinion since I'm more fluent and use vim for normal editing.
Yeah, its probably a bit of bias because I just never got into vi/m at uni. To each their own...
