Author Topic: Can anything save Sega?  (Read 8609 times)

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Offline Adrock

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Can anything save Sega?
« on: August 01, 2007, 08:46:31 PM »
Ok, well the easy answer is no, but I'd like to try and find a better solution.

I think Sega's biggest problem is that after going 3rd party, they realized that their name meant more than the games they put it on. They've whored Sonic out, like Nintendo has with Mario. The difference is that Sonic is in sh*tty games and Mario, for the most part, is not. When you play Mario Party 457, there's a good chance that, even if not terribly original, it's not a buggy mess of a game.

Sega should start by regaining some respectability. That can begin that by making good games again. Ok, that's obvious. There's a certain way they should go about that. They should consider pooling their talent into one or two teams and let them create content, whether it be old or new franchises.

The old Sega made some classics and many of them never got the attention they deserved. Take, for example, Panzer Dragoon Saga. Here's a game that was almost unanimously praised and Sega, not only released it at the very end of the Saturn lifespan, but only printed roughly 20,000 copies of the game in the US. I'd love to play the game but it's rare and expensive. If remade (well), I think a game like this would help Sega a lot. The old fans would eat it up and it could gain a whole new audience. It'd have to be on the right platform. Panzer Dragoon Orta made no sense on Xbox. There were like 7 Xbox owners who gave a damn that a new Panzer Dragoon game was being made. That's probably just poor Sega management. I think the series, including Saga, would be perfect on Wii, but almost anything seems perfect on the system.

I could go on, but I'd like to hear what you guys think. Is Sega a lost cause?

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2007, 08:54:15 PM »
People buying Alien Syndrome regardless of what anyone says?
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Offline Mashiro

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2007, 09:02:50 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
People buying Alien Syndrome regardless of what anyone says?


lol.

Well . . . there are companies that make comebacks from being in not so great territories, so I don't see why Sega can't be "saved".

It's always possible. I think they really need some fresh new talent that will really help improve Sega's games. Sega's problem is they don't improve their games. Example: Sonic Adventure 1 had issues that carried over to Sonic Adventure 2 that carried over to Shadow the Hedgehog.

They don't fix the broken aspects of their games and that's what they need to focus on. Their games aren't really BAD but they lack polish and quality control in some areas.

It's sad because it always seems like Sega games are a diamond in the rough.


Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2007, 09:14:58 PM »
Seriously, what I think Sega needs to do is put together a team of their best game designers and programmers. Let that team have a couple years to craft a really good game, and if it is well received it could help raise the moral of the people not only working on the game but those around them which could motivate them more. I have no doubt they are well aware of the reception they have been getting and I would not be surprised if they NEED something positive to give them a boost.
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Offline Adrock

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2007, 09:26:55 PM »
Sega was a great developer/publisher. I think when they fell into that financial hole, they whored themselves out. It kind of worked, but you can't continue to expect great returns off of mediocre product. People will eventually catch on. I wish Sega would follow Nintendo's lead and NEVER release a product until its ready. Break deadlines and delay release dates if necessary. Nintendo is so profitable mainly because they're known for quality products. Their development costs are also much smaller than other companies, like SquareEnix. Spend a little, make a lot though it can't work with a crappy product. Well, it might, but it's less likely to.

Offline Adrock

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2007, 09:29:48 PM »
Quote

GoldenPhoenix wrote:
Seriously, what I think Sega needs to do is put together a team of their best game designers and programmers. Let that team have a couple years to craft a really good game...

I beat you.
Quote

They should consider pooling their talent into one or two teams and let them create content, whether it be old or new franchises.

Offline Kairon

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2007, 10:13:36 PM »
What Sega needs to do is devote themselves almost fully to Nintendo systems.

They need to consolidate what little fanbase they have left onto a single system, have some crossover appeal with Nintendo's own sympathetic fanbase(especially sympathetic if given hardcore, exclusive games), take advantage of Nintendo's more friendly demographics(more kids for their lighter franchises, more lapsed gamers who remember the power of their mascots), AND tap into the desire for some traditional hardcore games. Nintendo consoles can give them this.

And they need to keep costs down somehow (in addition to being on Wii)... because even very good games will move just a couple thousand units unless you're lucky. Especially games of Sega's quirky variety.

They need to resurrect Space Channel 5, Jet Set Radio, and Panzer Dragoon, and they need to spin off those little Chao birdies into their own Wii Pokemon/Tamagotchi/Party game series.  
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Offline Mashiro

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2007, 10:23:13 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
What Sega needs to do is devote themselves almost fully to Nintendo systems.

They need to consolidate what little fanbase they have left onto a single system, have some crossover appeal with Nintendo's own sympathetic fanbase(especially sympathetic if given hardcore, exclusive games), take advantage of Nintendo's more friendly demographics(more kids for their lighter franchises, more lapsed gamers who remember the power of their mascots), AND tap into the desire for some traditional hardcore games. Nintendo consoles can give them this.

And they need to keep costs down somehow (in addition to being on Wii)... because even very good games will move just a couple thousand units unless you're lucky. Especially games of Sega's quirky variety.

They need to resurrect Space Channel 5, Jet Set Radio, and Panzer Dragoon, and they need to spin off Chaos into their own Wii Pokemon/Tamagotchi/Party game series.


I completely agree.

Offline King of Twitch

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2007, 11:31:15 PM »
Quote

The old Sega made some classics and many of them never got the attention they deserved. Take, for example, Panzer Dragoon Saga. Here's a game that was almost unanimously praised and Sega, not only released it at the very end of the Saturn lifespan, but only printed roughly 20,000 copies of the game in the US. I'd love to play the game but it's rare and expensive. If remade (well), I think a game like this would help Sega a lot. The old fans would eat it up and it could gain a whole new audience. It'd have to be on the right platform. Panzer Dragoon Orta made no sense on Xbox. There were like 7 Xbox owners who gave a damn that a new Panzer Dragoon game was being made. That's probably just poor Sega management. I think the series, including Saga, would be perfect on Wii, but almost anything seems perfect on the system.


Someone should put sega out of its misery like an old, three-legged blind dog. Just about every verb in that paragraph is in the past tense.


"I think when they fell into that financial hole, they whored themselves out. It kind of worked, but you can't continue to expect great returns off of mediocre product."

But EA does!
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2007, 02:39:09 AM »
What Sega needs to do is BEG Nintendo to buy them.  So that Sega's talent can be resourced to a company that actually respects talent and knows how to cultivate talent and ideas into realized potential and great games.

Nintendo is one of the few companies that can do this.  They did it with Rare, they did it with Silicon Knights, they could do it with Sega.

Either that or Nintendo just needs to start courting Sega's top design talents offering them large budgets and ample time to create whatever dreams they desire.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2007, 05:47:58 AM »
I don't really regard Sega as Sega anymore.  They're a name like Atari or Activision that was used for a once great developer but has no real connection to its origin.  Sega is Sammy.  So "saving" them is kind of futile.  To actually save them they need to be the real Sega again and not be owned by Sammy.

Exclusive support of one console may help as it would create a scenario similar to Sega's hey-dey where they made their own consoles.  I'd actually suggest a struggling console like the PS3 so that Sega has a lot of responsibility to provide the top selling software.  It's like the Sega of the past only they don't have to take the risk of the hardware itself.

Offline Kairon

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2007, 09:22:44 AM »
But Sega could have difficulties on both the XBox 360 and PS3 due to a variety of factors: higher development costs, more difficult development environments, more competition from traditional hardcore gaming companies, and less forgiving user bases. All of these problems would be mitigated to a great extent on the Nintendo Wii, which has the added benefit of looking like the market leader for this generation.
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Offline Nick DiMola

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2007, 09:33:10 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
What Sega needs to do is BEG Nintendo to buy them.  So that Sega's talent can be resourced to a company that actually respects talent and knows how to cultivate talent and ideas into realized potential and great games.


QFT. Otherwise, no nothing can save Sega.
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Offline couchmonkey

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2007, 10:49:41 AM »
I think Ian's got a point about the company not really being Sega anymore.  The company was floundering financially until Sammy bought it up, but it was still making some great games (Super Monkey Ball, Jet Set Radio Future, Panzer Dragoon Orta, etc.)  Now that Sega is in Sammy's hands, it seems like the order of the day is "good" business instead of good games.

The problem is, the two are not totally inseperable.  It's one thing to rehash a good game every single year like Burnout or The Sims or Mario Party - that gets boring and gamers will start to complain about it, but the game doesn't suck.  It's something else entirely to have a borked game and keep rehashing it...then even casual users and hardcore fans are going to start giving up on it.

Umm...so can Sega be "fixed"?  Anything can happen.  I had very little respect for Acclaim prior to the N64 years, where they put out some excellent games.  Unfortunately they went back to their sucky ways over time, but the point is, there's always room for change.  Maybe Sega's decision makers just need to be shaken up a bit.  Personally, I liked Sonic and the Secret Rings, and I'm hoping (but not expecting) that NiGHTS will be even better.

On that subject...I'm pretty sure Alien Syndrome was made in America, which I'm guessing is the motivating factor behind this post.
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Offline cubist

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2007, 01:17:07 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey

Umm...so can Sega be "fixed"?  Anything can happen.  I had very little respect for Acclaim prior to the N64 years, where they put out some excellent games.  Unfortunately they went back to their sucky ways over time, but the point is, there's always room for change.  Maybe Sega's decision makers just need to be shaken up a bit.  Personally, I liked Sonic and the Secret Rings, and I'm hoping (but not expecting) that NiGHTS will be even better.



Ah yes...nice reference to Acclaim...who was single-handedly saved by Iguana with Turok the Dinosaur Hunter...after that...they were putting out decent sports games...and other ambitious projects.  

Back to the topic:  Can Sega be "fixed"?  Yes.  Sega needs a single director to oversee all of their projects (right or wrong)...a proven director that can innovate, lead, and has a pulse for gaming...like Miyamoto (except when it comes to judging the excellent F-Zero GX).  The proof that Sega can work hard under a leader like Miyamoto was when Nintendo handed them the F-Zero franchise for the GCN.  There are even reports that Miyamoto is cracking the whip on making sure that Sega makes "Mario and Sonic at the Olympics" a solid game.

A solid leader that is respected = Solid results from Sega...(and I can't seem to get the word "solid" off of my mind)...

A couple of possibilities come to mind:  Yu Suzuki and Yuji Naka.  Hell, I'd even ask Shinji Mikami to come over since he's on the fence with Capcom.

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Offline Ceric

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2007, 02:20:49 PM »
I think the problem is that Sammy has Sega focussed on arcade game, its not a secret.  I think they do better port some of those over.
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Offline ThePerm

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2007, 03:15:12 PM »
Any adult arguing that bugs bunny is a kids thing should be punched in the face, i believe iv made my point but we need not elaborate.
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Offline Mario

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2007, 03:29:36 PM »
They just need to make a playable Sonic game, with music from the original composers.

Offline Adrock

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2007, 08:13:01 PM »
I recall reading somewhere that Nights: Journey into Dreams was originally being considered for Xbox 360. If true, the fact that the game is coming to Wii instead slightly increases my faith in Sega. Maybe they're not as stupid as they've constantly seemed for the past few years.

Personally, I find that most of Sega IPs are better suited on Nintendo hardware. Focusing on one console, especially the cheapest and easiest to develop for, could be very beneficial. I don't know if Sega can really compete with the other big 3rd parties on the other consoles. However, publishers haven't been and don't really seem to be backing Wii as much as they probably should. There are too many ports, spin-offs, and side games. That said, I think Sega could find an audience by supporting Wii full force with their main series. Sega always struck me as the anti-Nintendo since they made games that Nintendo normally wouldn't (the only real comparison would be Shining Force to Fire Emblem). Sega could really capitalize by offering alternatives to Nintendo's own 1st party titles. They could be a new (and better) Rareware of sorts.

It might actually be beneficial for Nintendo to invest in Sega and take control of their franchises. There was a rumor years ago that Nintendo was in talks to buy them out when Dreamcast fell though clearly, it never came to be. I think we're all mostly familiar with Nintendo's stance of buying out companies after their investment in Monolith Soft which basically shoots this down, but I still think it'd be interesting to see and would actually help both companies out in the long run.

Offline Kairon

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2007, 08:29:32 PM »
Not to mention that Nintendo demographics skew both younger AND older, for children who are mascot susceptible to older lapsed gamers who are willing to reminisce about the 90's. The PS3 and XBox 360 demographics not only have fiercer game market competition, but FAR more critical gamers who have already been spoiled intensely against the Sega brand.

Geez Sega, get it in your thick head already!!!

... on that note, what's you guys' opinions on how Sega is trying to branch out as a publisher towards Western developers?
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2007, 10:13:47 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Not to mention that Nintendo demographics skew both younger AND older, for children who are mascot susceptible to older lapsed gamers who are willing to reminisce about the 90's. The PS3 and XBox 360 demographics not only have fiercer game market competition, but FAR more critical gamers who have already been spoiled intensely against the Sega brand.

Geez Sega, get it in your thick head already!!!

... on that note, what's you guys' opinions on how Sega is trying to branch out as a publisher towards Western developers?


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Offline Kairon

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2007, 10:17:06 PM »
&P

What about Dungeon Seige(and now.. SPACE SEIGE!)? And their acquirement of... what was that company again? Secret Level, a western development company that will now develop next-gen versions of Ironman and Golden Axe?
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For never was a story of more woe
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2007, 10:18:19 PM »
Personally I would rather Sega focus on themselves and then worry about publishing titles, they need to get their act together before they drag other poor unsuspecting souls through the mud.
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Offline Gamebasher

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2007, 12:21:32 PM »
"Personally I would rather Sega focus on themselves and then worry about publishing titles, they need to get their act together before they drag other poor unsuspecting souls through the mud"

I think that they´re doing just that right now! With SEGA Rally Revo and the new NIGHTS game it looks like only one thing to me: they´re turning back the clock and starting to bring us the pure, serious SEGA brand name content we have all craved for all of the time since their near-demise!

I think that what made them unable to give us what we wanted so far, was that they, as developers, didn´t have any good-enough platform to develope the games on. They needed a platform which had enough MOMENTUM from the word go to gain them the financial promise of success they needed to want to give all they have to invest in the best game-talent they´ve got. Otherwise it wouldn´t be worth it for them.  I personally don´t regard the PlayStation 2 to have ever been a good platform for SEGA to develope on. Only one to survive on. An enemy-platform turned "friendly" at the mercy of it´s owners.

SEGA had already prior to their exit from hardware market openly expressed that they would never go down with the Dreamcast. They in addition to this publicly ridiculed Sony´s momentary delivery trouble of semi-conductor chips. A most unwise thing to do. They had ridiculed Sony, and now lost to them in the end. Not a good thing to then work for them afterwards - according to the way I see it. This is not about cut-throat business attitudes or not. About friendly getting togethers to become friends instead of enemies. But about company honour, which for SEGA´s part had been severely trampled upon. So the Playstation 2 wasn´t good enough for them. The awesome talent residing at SEGA HQ needed greener pastures. One other thing they needed, and which they didn´t have, was good management.

With the arrival of the Wii from Nintendo, they got a good platform to develope for. Yes, they´ve had theit fights with Nintendo. But Nintendo is still a far better place to be for them. I think I know SEGA that well, and that is my reasons for writing this.

Now, when some types of business people, like the people I believe sat at the top of SEGA management in the SATURN and DREAMCAST days (for so it seems, judging on the wild odyssey they, in a sudden inexplicable impulse, took, with crazy add-ons and over-the-top pricing for them (plus add that people HAD to buy those to play key-franchises being released then), come to the helm of control in any given company, and if they are greedy types, or if they care more for how much they make themselves than to deliver a usefull effort to the company they´re serving - things start going downhill for that company (please excuse the long sentence, but I can´t say it any other way)!

And since they are in control of the ship, so to speak, it doesn´t matter what the developers think. All they can do is go on a strike, which wont exactly help the company, or themselves, or they can...quit. But then they will be unemployed. So most likely they will stay. Disgruntled, unhappy, angry. And WHAT do you think that will do their desire to make good games for us! It will do BAD to it, thats what!!

In such a way I believe that a bunch of suits, wrong to the extreme in their overall outlook and abilities, entered SEGA Management and laid waste to the company through negligent or downright irresponsible management of it. It is all reflected in the aforementioned sudden nonsensical moves by the company, as viewed by outside spectators, and which must prove that it was a management problem alltogether. Nothing else.

If anything can undo a company, nomatter the amount of talent in it, it is BAD management. Period.

Further, over the past years there seems to have been going a kind of re-structuring, awakening, on, which apparently has brought the company closer and closer to a goal of becoming the same as it was before all the bad happened. I think that someone connected to SEGA has had a big hand in turning things around. Turning back the clock...to the old days! Cleaning up, so to speak. And I think that those same people will do anything in their power to keep such bad business people from ever entering SEGA again. For they know, that if they don´t watch out for that kind of situation, including hostile take-overs, SEGA will die. It´s their very reputation which earns them RESPECT. And if they don´t have that, they have nothing. I myself, as a gamer, remember what games a games company make which are good. So do you people. We all do. So before SEGA can return to the old days they must make sure that everything inside the production rooms of the company is working flawlessly. Then, and only then, will it all be like it was.  
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2007, 04:52:03 PM »
How about... Vectorman as a third Person shooter on the Wii!
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Offline that Baby guy

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2007, 04:54:44 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
How about... Vectorman as a third Person shooter on the Wii!


Tsk, Vectorman should be a First Person Adventure.  It sounds more distinguished, and as Sega knows best, they can only sell a name right now.

Offline Adrock

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2007, 09:29:40 PM »
I'm pretty sure Sega tried to resurrect Vectorman on PS2 a couple years ago and it was canceled due to its sheer sh*ttiness. I have no doubt that it would've been failure times infinity. Chalk one up for Sega, they got something right this millennium.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2007, 09:30:43 PM »
Sega needs to make Seaman 2, that will solve everything.
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Offline Adrock

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2007, 09:40:24 PM »
Apparently, they are. On PS2.

I'm confident being exclusive to Nintendo hardware would solve quite a lot for Sega. Multiplatform has sucked for Sega and supporting Wii/DS carries more positives than supporting anything else.

Offline Kairon

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2007, 09:50:20 PM »
WHY SEGA WHY?!?!?!?

...grumps
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Offline Adrock

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2007, 09:51:13 PM »
Because you touch yourself at night.

Offline Kairon

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RE: Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2007, 09:53:51 PM »
I'll stop. OKAY SEGA? I'll STOP!!!
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Can anything save Sega?
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2007, 09:55:01 PM »
Sega must be taking lessons from Acclaim.
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