Author Topic: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.  (Read 15946 times)

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Offline 18 Days

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All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« on: November 30, 2006, 12:52:54 AM »
I think I've reached breaking point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Some guy
...a good traditional Mana game would be nice ;_;
When was the last one of these? Oh yeah NEVER.

Mana games have never been good. You go back, you play Zelda: Link to the Past these days and it's not that good. And here's the thing, Link to the Past was better than Secret of Mana in just about every way. And while the Zelda series has gone on to be one of the strongest franchises in gaming. It's constantly pushing the frontiers of game design and remains in the upper echelon of not just it's own genre but video games as a form of interactive art. Mana games on the other hand, originally Zelda with stats, have floundered about like a lost puppy waiting to die, kept alive by meager sales from confused and disillusioned fans, eyes clouded by nostalgia. Even I was suckered into this. I bought Sword of Mana the day it came out. I'll give it a quick review right here: Mindless garbage, score: No Fist*.

Just face it guys. The series is a joke, it's not getting any better, and these tenuously related games wouldn't sell at all if they didn't have 'Mana' tacked onto their name somewhere.


* The Fist scoring system I use is quite simple.
Double Fist: Excellent games
Fist: Good games
No Fist: Poor games
Weak: Rubbish
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Offline JonLeung

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2006, 01:18:01 AM »
Wow, that's just asking for flaming.

I recently played Legend Of Mana and Children Of Mana.  Okay, Children was tedious at times due to the nature of that game's areas, and it's really hard for to beat the awesomeness that I remember Secret having, but I still enjoyed it.  In any case, all the Mana games look really good.  Good art direction and lots of colour.  It's hard to believe that the Mana series was once considered a sort of "Final Fantasy Gaiden", a side story series to Final Fantasy, when it's created an identity of its own.

You know how all the Mana games are called "_____ of Mana" and how all the Tales games are called "Tales of _____"?  Bandai Namco and Square-Enix should team up (a BandaiNamcoSquareEnix production!) and make "Tales Of Mana".  Just because.

Offline nitsu niflheim

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2006, 01:20:10 AM »
Children of Mana is horrible.  I hate it, and stopped playing it.  Legend of Mana was just as bad.  I actually liked Sword of Mana, but it wasn't anything special.


Hey Rab. =D


I am getting Dawn of Mana, but I think I will pass on the Mana tactics game.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2006, 01:25:01 AM »
You go back, you play Zelda: Link to the Past these days and it's not that good.

YOU are not that good! 2d Zelda is great kthxbye.

Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2006, 01:37:49 AM »
Wow, I will agree that the Mana games weren't great.  The idea behind them that made them cool was multiplayer Zelda type game...but the reliance of magic and that stupid magic system from Secret of Mana made it unplayable in multiplayer.

BUT LINK THE PAST BAD!?!  

To me that is one of the best Zelda games ever created.  



Personally, I don't trust anything modern that Square does anymore.  Most of it is crap in my opinion.  However, I do wish that the original SNES Secret of Mana 2 game that was released in Japan would be translated and released on the virtual console.

To me that is a must.


Offline nitsu niflheim

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2006, 01:41:36 AM »
There's always the other VC (PC ) for SoM 2, and it's already translated, too!
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2006, 01:48:15 AM »
That's okay, 18 Days likes Starfox Command...That means her opinion is moot!
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Offline Arbok

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2006, 03:55:32 AM »
I never played a Mana game so perhaps I'm not the target here... but I stopped reading after "you play Zelda: Link to the Past these days and it's not that good."

Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
That's okay, 18 Days likes Starfox Command...That means her opinion is moot!


You mean his?
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2006, 05:24:17 AM »
"You go back, you play Zelda: Link to the Past these days and it's not that good. And here's the thing, Link to the Past was better than Secret of Mana in just about every way."

While I agree that Secret of Mana is inferior, LttP is awesome.  My only gripes against it are that Link walks too slowly (thus you can't effectively run from battle if your health is low) and that I just personally like Link's Awakening better.  But every few years myself or one of my brothers replays LttP and it hasn't aged a bit.  The walking thing is a problem I always had with it.  It is still one of the best games ever made.

I do agree Mana is a weak series though.  I don't really SoM all that much but then I really don't get into Zelda clones all that well because they never quite get it right.  But for the most part Mana games aren't all that hot.  There basically is one classic game in the series (maybe two if the Japan-only SNES one is great) and that's it.  I also think that Secret of Mana gets a little overrated because it comes from a time period where Square was just on fire.

Offline Kairon

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2006, 09:57:53 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: 18 Days
You go back, you play Zelda: Link to the Past these days and it's not that good.


I stopped reading right there.

Seriously. Made of friggin' PHAIL.

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Offline Smoke39

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2006, 12:28:22 PM »
I don't think LttP is all that good. o:
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Offline Athrun Zala

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2006, 12:47:19 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
You go back, you play Zelda: Link to the Past these days and it's not that good.

YOU are not that good! 2d Zelda is great kthxbye.
QTF

smoke is made of PHAIL as well....
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Offline couchmonkey

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2006, 03:57:05 AM »
The only fact here is that Zelda is better than Secret of Mana.  Both are still good games.
That's my opinion, not yours.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2006, 08:02:03 AM »
I agree, but I think people are taking her points in the wrong direction.

The point is, the Mana series and Zelda series were founded on the same principles: real-time RPGs, only Mana has levels while Zelda has hearts, weapon upgrades and emphasis on puzzle-solving. Zelda has evolved, transitioned beautifully into 3D and still remains one of the most respected and incredible franchises of all time while Mana has dwindled and gone downhill.

I've finished LttP, it was a great game, but I'll be the first to say that OoT blows it clean out of the goddamn water. The immersion in OoT, the beauty of the ocarina melodies, the dark urgency...all of it came together to make the game feel truly epic in a way that LttP couldn't hope to touch, but that's fine because OoT is the next evolution of LttP.

My first Mana game was SD3 which I loved. CoM, however, was a simple Diablo clone which was so bland and repetitive that I sold it back in less than a week. I don't know who the assclown at Square was who thought that people would enjoy walking through the same level 5-6 times pressing the same button over and over again but he should be fired. The story took a back seat and felt tacked on, as though it had no bearing on anything that was actually happening.

Just once, I want a multiplayer RPG which tells an excellent story but allows each one of my friends to control a different character. It seems that developers see multiplayer as a substitute for a compelling storyline and that just sucks. As clichéd as the Tales of Symphonia storyline was, it was still light-years beyond anything else I've seen and the mutliplayer combat, minus the camera focusing only on one player, was SUPERB. My friend and I actually worked out our strategies so that we could time our comboing attacks and keep most bosses stunlocked for the entire duration of a fight.

In CoM, even when playing multiplayer, you might as well be playing alone. The gameplay is immensely easy and all additional players do is get in each other's way. I much preferred SD3 where a second player could simply pick up the other controller and the two of you could explore the world, visit towns and play the entire game together, not be confined to a lone "resupply" area and work your way through bland dungeons with the same easy enemies over and over and a storyline which was so transparent it could have been in written entirely in sanskrit because of how little you cared.

Hell, GC Four Swords was was CoM SHOULD have been...
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2006, 08:07:35 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
That's okay, 18 Days likes Starfox Command...That means her opinion is moot!


You mean his?

Nah, "her" fits him just fine...
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2006, 08:14:12 PM »
The point is, the Mana series and Zelda series were founded on the same principles: real-time RPGs

Um, no. Zelda was founded on the idea of an action game with exploration and puzzles. It's as much of an RPG as Metroid. Zelda 2 may be counted as an RPG if RPG means experience points, stats and random encounters to you.

I've finished LttP, it was a great game, but I'll be the first to say that OoT blows it clean out of the goddamn water.

OOT is an aggravating exercise at frustration, LttP is a great action game where you can actually see what you're doing. OOT has huge empty fields and boring day/night cycles, LttP has a full world map and interesting stuff everywhere.

The immersion in OoT, the beauty of the ocarina melodies, the dark urgency...[!i]

The stupid camera, low framerate, 90% boring music and the darkness that won't let you see crap...

Offline Amodaus1

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2006, 03:28:37 AM »
I agree alot with KDR about OoT, but i think your going a bit to far with critism of OoT. But your dead on with the large open fields filled with boring. LttP is superior to OoT, it really is. However, i'm hard pressed to draw a choice between the new Zelda and Lttp. TP is truly an exellent game, the likes of which i haven't seen in a while.

Offline Kairon

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2006, 04:45:46 AM »
Yeah, LttP is technically superior to OoT in my mind just because of the tightness of the world design... but that's really just one rubric with which to measure a game. It IS subjective to say "better than" after all.

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P.S. Just because it's subjective doesn't mean that you people aren't made of PHAIL though. You are. That is truth.
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
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For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2006, 05:55:58 AM »
MM and SD3 for the win.

close thread.
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Offline Kairon

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2006, 06:01:19 AM »
Man, I HATED Seiken Densetsu 3. Such a letdown from Secret of Mana. It got rid of the ring menu, it slowed down combat, and it diluted the general experience completely.

The closest thing I've played to SoM in a long while has been Rocket Slime, and as cool as that was, it was still a minor twinkle in the utter brilliance of SoM.

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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Smoke39

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2006, 06:26:25 AM »
I've been playing through Majora's Mask again, and I'll agree that what I remember of OoT seems kinda barren in comparison.  But LttP is just dull and unappealing to me.  Link's Awakening was the best 2D Zelda game.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2006, 08:02:38 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k Um, no. Zelda was founded on the idea of an action game with exploration and puzzles. It's as much of an RPG as Metroid.


Actually, they both fit under the heading of "adventure game".

Quote

OOT is an aggravating exercise at frustration, LttP is a great action game where you can actually see what you're doing. OOT has huge empty fields and boring day/night cycles, LttP has a full world map and interesting stuff everywhere.


You might want to steer clear of Twilight Princess then because those HUGE fields and boring day/night cycles are...GASP...BACK!!!

Quote

The stupid camera, low framerate, 90% boring music and the darkness that won't let you see crap...


Talk about scraping the barrel... If I had had any sort of trouble with anything you listed here, I might be inclined to give you some credence, but I haven't.

Come up with some legitimate comparisons and then maybe we'll talk.
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Offline Strell

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2006, 08:12:03 AM »
All Zelda games are awesome.  Even The Adventure of Link.

Secret of Mana is awesome.  Legend of Mana was okay.  Everything else after that doesn't seem so hot.

Discussion over.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2006, 02:35:43 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Man, I HATED Seiken Densetsu 3. Such a letdown from Secret of Mana. It got rid of the ring menu, it slowed down combat, and it diluted the general experience completely.

The closest thing I've played to SoM in a long while has been Rocket Slime, and as cool as that was, it was still a minor twinkle in the utter brilliance of SoM.

~Carmine M. Red
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The fact that you said SD3 does NOT have a ring menu shows you did NOT play "Seiken Densetsu 3."  You probably played Sword of Mana or some other PSX rubbish.  You have no right to revisit this thread.

Discussion over x2.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2006, 02:56:19 PM »
Anyone that even DARES to think crap about OoT should be castrated, have their arms and legs ripped off clean, their internal organs re-arranged and ripped of their hearts, then show it to them before they die...

And yeah SB, Four swords was a fun romp...

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