Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: NWR_insanolord on February 28, 2013, 11:47:14 AM
Title: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 28, 2013, 11:47:14 AM
Like many of you, I was first exposed to this debate on a recent episode of Radio Free Nintendo, after previously assuming the answer was a simple "of course." After thinking about it some more, I think I've come to realize why people doubt it.
I think the reason for this is that Pikmin is such a departure from other real-time strategy titles. I think RTS games were clearly an influence, but maybe Miyamoto's team changed the mechanics so much that it might not even qualify as such anymore. There are certainly elements of other genres in there.
But this is what Nintendo does, they take an existing idea and flip it on its side; it brings to mind the similar debate of whether or not Metroid Prime is a first-person shooter. Again, the influences are clearly there, but it's a long way from any of the traditional ideas of what that genre entails.
In the end, I think that yes, Pikmin is a sort of a strategy game, albeit one very different from any that came before it. Nintendo's games sometimes defy genres, but in this case that's the closest fit. What does everyone else think.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 28, 2013, 01:04:25 PM
I think it is a strategy game (RTS specifically). Most genres have different sub-genres, like how Mario Kart and Gran Turismo are both racing games but are vastly different.
With Metroid Prime, I do not consider it a first person shooter. People only call it a FPS because it's in first person, is Super Metroid a side-scrolling shooter? Because if you call Metroid Prime a first person shooter, then you have to call Super Metroid a side-scrolling shooter. Metroid Prime just took the Metroid formula and shifter the camera to a first person perspective.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: ThePerm on February 28, 2013, 01:16:41 PM
Group Survival Strategy?
Lemmings would fall into the same category.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: noname2200 on February 28, 2013, 01:35:49 PM
I have trouble seeing it as a strategy game. It just doesn't bear enough resemblance to any RTS or TBS game I've played.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: Ian Sane on February 28, 2013, 01:37:50 PM
Calling Pikmin a strategy game is not a bad way to generalize it in a very broad sense. But it isn't really an RTS since it plays quite differently than games like C&C and Starcraft. A fan of typical RTS games may not like Pikmin. Don't get hung up on the term "real time strategy" and figure that since Pikmin is played in real time it must qualify. That sort of lawyerball is where you get nonsense like people saying that every game but Tetris is a "role playing game" because you assume the role of some character.
If Pikmin was more influencial and inspired more clones we would probably have a very common term for the type of strategy game it is. You-vs-nature is a big part. It isn't like a typical RTS where you face off against another team.
Back in 1994 I got the year end buyer's guide from EGM and it had their awards for the best of the year. Super Metroid won BEST SHOOTER in a year where R-Type III came out. So TJ's hypothetical situation actually happened. I guess in EGM's mind Metroid is no different than Contra.
Fun fact: my brother calls shmups like Gradius and R-Type "jet games". He acts like this is the common term and gets mad at me when I call them shmups or shooters. He considers Contra a shooter because you're on foot; it's only a "jet game" if you're flying. So, yes, my brother is so insane that he insists I use a term that he invented over a term that effectively all of videogame fandom uses. And the stupid thing is that practically none of these games involve jets as they are clearly spaceships so his term doesn't even make much sense.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: Louieturkey on February 28, 2013, 02:04:45 PM
Just like I call Metroid Prime a First Person Adventure game, I think a good term for Pikmin would be Strategy Adventure game in real time.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 01, 2013, 12:33:14 AM
Strategy Adventure works pretty well. Though, like Metroid Prime, this is a genre that has a total of three titles so far. Strategy Adventure: Pikmin 1 & 2, + Little King's Story (the best game ever made?).
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on March 01, 2013, 05:24:10 AM
Does anyone think Wonderful 101 will qualify as an 'Strategy Adventure' game?
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: Stogi on March 01, 2013, 07:19:54 AM
Looks more like Action/Adventure.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on March 01, 2013, 07:27:28 AM
That's kind of my point though. For me Pikmin resembles Wonderful 101 more than it does a strategy game. So if we're saying that 101 is an action/adventure game then surely Pikmin would be also.
Other than the fact that Nintendo marketed Pikmin as Miyamoto's spin on a strategy game, I just don't see why people would group it in the strategy genre. It's just too far removed from what makes a strategy game a strategy game.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: pokepal148 on March 01, 2013, 07:29:09 AM
action/adventure/strategy THERE HAPPY
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 01, 2013, 08:21:28 AM
Wonerful 101 is Pikmin without everything that makes it strategy. It takes a similar battle mechanic, but (at least based on what I've played) removes the resource management and doesn't offer the ability to multitask. It was fairly straightforward, while Pikmin drops you in an area with a lot of different things you could be doing.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: Fjurbanski on March 01, 2013, 11:48:08 AM
That's kind of my point though. For me Pikmin resembles Wonderful 101 more than it does a strategy game. So if we're saying that 101 is an action/adventure game then surely Pikmin would be also.
Pikmin only resembles W101 in that there are multiple characters on screen at once that you control. From what we've seen, what you're doing in W101 is nothing like pikmin.
In pikmin, you have specific types of pikmin that can do specific jobs, you can divide them up to complete different tasks, you can take resources back to a base, etc. It's not high strategy, but the tasks one would do in a strategy game are present in pikmin.
In W101, aside from the main characters, doesn't look like it has unique units, just a mass of characters. And no matter who or what you have you can transform into a gun, or sword, fists, or whatever. Then you just attack, while every once in a while solving rudimentary puzzles through a linear course. It looks more like a beat 'em up, just with a facelift. You walk down the street, fight this guy or that guy, then get to a boss.
Yeah, if you took a picture of pikmin and compared it to a picture of W101, they would look the same, but if you took a picture of Metroid Prime and compared it to Halo they'd look the same too. And we know they aren't. The type of enjoyment one would get out of both games seems to be completely different. So I wouldn't say they fall into the same genre at all.
I'd say pikmin is adventure/strategy (once again, you can debate how much strategy is there, but it's there), whereas W101 (from what we've seen of it) is just a brawler.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: Disco Stu on March 03, 2013, 02:11:08 PM
I don't think it's accurate to call Pikmin just a strategy game. What makes the series so interesting is its amalgamation of several different genres. There are certainly traditional RTS elements, mainly managing units that have different abilities. These strategy elements are used in very clever ways for solving environmental puzzles (in this series, even the bosses are often basically puzzles). So if I had to throw words together to make a subgenre for Pikmin it would puzzler-action-strategy.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: Mop it up on March 03, 2013, 07:47:58 PM
I've played the first game, and yes, it's a strategy game. What kind of strategy game is up for debate, but it's definitely some sort of strategy as that's the only requirement of succeeding in the first game. Actually performing tasks isn't difficult, but figuring out the best and most efficient way of collecting all the parts before nightfall and within the 30-day limit takes strategery.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: Goldenlink18 on March 04, 2013, 01:50:35 PM
Yes, I believe that pikmin would qualify as a strategy game and a lot of it has to do with the gameplay style of both of the games. In the first game, it was all about using your time wisely, having your pikmin travel across the land during that certain amount of time collecting ship parts in that amount of time. Creating a plan on how to get the most ship parts on that day and how to keep pikmin deaths to a minimum. Another aspect is how you can split your pikmin up into different squads an make them do different tasks, this way of play was used a lot more in the second game when two captains was brought into the mix. The caves in second game involved a lot of strategy. When I played the game I would usually take on of the captains and use him as a scout to see what the floor layout and what traps or enemies were on that floor, and then i would make a plan revolving around that layout.
Title: Re: Does Pikmin qualify as a strategy game?
Post by: Sundoulos on March 16, 2013, 02:51:55 PM
I'd have to agree that it is a strategy game as well. In the second game in particular, the balance of Pikmin types was important for surviving the caves, particularly with regard with some of the boss fights. If you didn't plan and balance your group properly, you wouldn't be able to make it through. The second game's multiplayer was competitive and also did have RTS elements of a sort, and it is easy to see the developers make a game that was more of a pure RTS had they wished to do so.
