Author Topic: Nintendo, 2d platformers, evil Colonel Sanders Spiders, what's not to like?  (Read 30237 times)

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Offline jasonditz

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
If that statistic were true we would all already be dead and the world we be devoid of human life as we would have killed each other by now.


That... doesn't follow at all.


Offline jasonditz

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
They regards themselves as above the rest of us.  It's not about animal rights it's about PETA being in charge.  It's the meglomaniac that wants to make the world a better place by being supreme dictator.


The megalomaniac or... in modern parlance, the voter.


Offline jasonditz

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Originally posted by: Arbok
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Originally posted by: Mashiro
Also wouldn't 99%+ mean 100%?


Technically no, it could be 99.5%, for example.


Yeah... I don't have an exact figure... I know it is less than 100%, but in my experience it is also considerably more than 99%.

The odds that a random person will not use violence against you if it is to his benefit, or won't at least support someone else using violence against you if it is to his benefit is way way longer than 100 to 1. Hence, 99%+

Offline UncleBob

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Seriously dude, regardless of your thoughts on PETA, you seriously need to consider seeking out help.  Like, real, professional help.  If you really think that 99+% of people will resort to violence to force their point of view on other people and you have such a deep hatred for human kind, you've seriously got some issues.

Look, I hear ya man... I hate the human race too... but there's the healthy, rational "I hate everyone because I work in customer service and I see how stupid everyone is" kinda hating everyone, then there's your totally not rational thoughts...
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Offline Mashiro

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That... doesn't follow at all.


Ok let's break it down then shall we?

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Using violence to force others to agree with one's point of view hardly seems extremist. As I said before... 99%+ of people are willing to do that.


You're saying 99% (or more) people on the earth are willing to resort to violence in order to make others agree with themselves.

So that means (based off of the population number 6,613,714,003) 6,547,576,863 (rounding up) people in the world would be willing to resort to violence in order to FORCE people to agree with them.

You know what happens when lots of people try to force lots of other people to believe in their viewpoint? War.

That's really all war is. 2 differentiating view points that can only be solved through violence. So pretty much 6,547,576,863 people would be poised for battle to make their point proven . . . I don't think the population would last very long.    

Offline Sir_Stabbalot

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Originally posted by: jasonditz
You may well be in that less than 1%... who knows. But yes, virtually everyone around you will use violence against you (or suppose someone else using violence against you) in some case if you disagree with them or refuse to obey them.


Where did you pick up this theory? Really, I would like to know, as this is just so alien to me. This is the first time I've heard of it, and it just seems odd. I've been in lots of arguments and debates, but I've never had anyone pull out a baseball bat and beat me to a pulp.
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Offline jasonditz

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Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
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Originally posted by: jasonditz
You may well be in that less than 1%... who knows. But yes, virtually everyone around you will use violence against you (or suppose someone else using violence against you) in some case if you disagree with them or refuse to obey them.


Where did you pick up this theory? Really, I would like to know, as this is just so alien to me. This is the first time I've heard of it, and it just seems odd. I've been in lots of arguments and debates, but I've never had anyone pull out a baseball bat and beat me to a pulp.


Don't feel bad, since its the philosophy of way, way less than 1% of the population most people wouldn't be familiar with it. I wasn't really intending to start a big philosophical discussion when I posted that link to the flash game in this thread by the way, I just thought it was a quaint (if overly simple) little game that had a bunch of Mario characters in it doing silly things. I know a lot of people don't like PETA, but I wasn't expecting the overt comparisons to al-Qaeda and really... I didn't know where else to go with discussion at that point.

Anyhow, the philosophy from which such consequences would follow is the philosophy of Leo Tolstoy.  

Offline that Baby guy

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I think you sharply misunderstand Tolstoy and the political, social, and religious environment of which he lived.

Offline jasonditz

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
Seriously dude, regardless of your thoughts on PETA, you seriously need to consider seeking out help.  Like, real, professional help.  If you really think that 99+% of people will resort to violence to force their point of view on other people and you have such a deep hatred for human kind, you've seriously got some issues.

Look, I hear ya man... I hate the human race too... but there's the healthy, rational "I hate everyone because I work in customer service and I see how stupid everyone is" kinda hating everyone, then there's your totally not rational thoughts...


I don't hate the human race at all... I'm just realistic about them.

Lets break it down a bit (and I apologize to the foreigners here, but this breakdown will be America-centric)

How many people want violence used, either by the state or private forces, to prevent abortions?

How many people want violence used, either by the state or private forces, to prevent gay people from marrying?

How many people want violence used, either by the state or private forces, to prevent racism?

How many people want violence used, either by the state or private forces, to prevent Mexicans from entering the country?

We can continue this list virtually ad infinitum: Dog fights, to protect intellectual property, to protect the environment, to stop the environmentalists, to stop interracial marriages, to spread democracy, etc.

Now on the other hand, how many people are there who would never use violence to advance some agenda, and would never want someone else doing so in their name?  

Offline jasonditz

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Originally posted by: thatguy
I think you sharply misunderstand Tolstoy and the political, social, and religious environment of which he lived.


If Tolstoy was on this list you'd have already insisted he go get therapy.

Offline that Baby guy

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If Tolstoy were on posting in this thread, he'd know from personal experience that there can be good in anyone, even if people don't always show it.

Only a vocal minority believe in using violence for the things you listed.  These minorities combined do not equal a great amount of people, but still can generate a large amount of news.  I will admit there most people on this earth have times where they are angry, and for periods of time, might want to hurt something through violence, however, this periods of time are brief for normal people, and most of the time, self-restraint is used.

On a further note, it is also irresponsible to hold the acts of children to your beliefs, though I believe that privately, you do.  Children can be violent, rambunctious, and energetic, and often times fight because they are too immature adequately express their energy and passions in positive directions.

You have to understand that your experiences are not the only experiences.  That your eyes are not the only eyes out there, and that you could walk in other peoples shoes.  Ask me how many times I've used violence to further any of my ambitions, beliefs, or feelings.  It's none.  At some points, I might become angry, yes, but I never attempted to hurt anyone.  I think that I alone and not a representative for humanity or Americans, but then, ask me how many people I know, then ask how many of them have used violence to further their goals, feelings, or beliefs.  I know tens of thousands of people, and I can think of perhaps ten or twenty tops that I know or even believe have.

I think that if you believe you fall into the '1%' you detail, you assume that it is human nature to be violent, and to use violence as a means to justify a goal.  It is not.  It is human choice.  And the truth is, very few people make the choice for violence to happen.  When they do, they usually make the choice to do so to defend, not destroy.  Oddly enough, you have outlined scenarios where the few who are violent feel they are defending something.  Not themselves, but their god/gods.  Not themselves, but other's children.  Not themselves, but they're spouse.  Not themselves, but people in minorities whose numbers are too small for self-defense.  Not themselves, but their children's future.  Now, I disagree with using violence in these situations, but I have perspective on where it comes from, in a sense.  The defense of the beliefs and people are mishandled.

If I were a father, and a man with a weapon broke into my house, where my children sleep, those who rely on me for food, for knowledge, for strength, and for guidance, would it not be my responsible to strike down the man with the weapon?  Not for my sake, but for that of my children?  Even if I have forsaken violence in my defense, I could not be a guardian for my family if I did not protect them from the attacks of others.  Does this direct defense put me in your '99%?'  Why?  Why not?  Are my ways misguided?  What would you do in that situation?

Now, I am not a father, and I will say this:  If someone were to break into my house this evening, in an attempt to harm me, I would not attack him.  I would attempt to minimize the damage of his attacks, and I would also attempt to call the police, so that he would undergo the USA's justice system.  However, the police might attack him when they arrive.  Would this be wrong?  Why?  Should I just let a man who is walking the wrong path go on with his life?  Wouldn't that be worse than attacking him?

Offline Sir_Stabbalot

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Originally posted by: jasonditz
Anyhow, the philosophy from which such consequences would follow is the philosophy of Leo Tolstoy.


Why didn't you mention that in the first place? It seemed you were condoning radical violence at first, which would have been really out there.  But now that you mention Tolstoy, your arguments make much more sense, as you're not condoning any violence or threat of violence. I still don't get the 99% theory, though. I've never heard of that before...  
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Originally posted by: jasonditz
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Originally posted by: UncleBob
Seriously dude, regardless of your thoughts on PETA, you seriously need to consider seeking out help.  Like, real, professional help.  If you really think that 99+% of people will resort to violence to force their point of view on other people and you have such a deep hatred for human kind, you've seriously got some issues.

Look, I hear ya man... I hate the human race too... but there's the healthy, rational "I hate everyone because I work in customer service and I see how stupid everyone is" kinda hating everyone, then there's your totally not rational thoughts...


I don't hate the human race at all... I'm just realistic about them.

Lets break it down a bit (and I apologize to the foreigners here, but this breakdown will be America-centric)

How many people want violence used, either by the state or private forces, to prevent abortions?
Violence used?  Very few actually.  Like perhaps 2-3% of the population.  Unless you consider some people that want imprisonment then that number will be higher.

How many people want violence used, either by the state or private forces, to prevent gay people from marrying?

Violence used?  Very few actually.  Like perhaps 2-3% of the population.  Unless you consider some people that want imprisonment then that number will be higher.

How many people want violence used, either by the state or private forces, to prevent racism?

Violence used?  Very few actually.  Like perhaps 5-10% of the population.  Unless you consider some people that want imprisonment then that number will be higher.

How many people want violence used, either by the state or private forces, to prevent Mexicans from entering the country?

Violence used?  Very few actually.  Like perhaps 2-3% of the population.  Unless you consider some people that want imprisonment then that number will be higher.

We can continue this list virtually ad infinitum: Dog fights, to protect intellectual property, to protect the environment, to stop the environmentalists, to stop interracial marriages, to spread democracy, etc.

Violence used?  Very few actually.  Like perhaps 2-3% of the population.  Unless you consider some people that want imprisonment then that number will be higher.

Now on the other hand, how many people are there who would never use violence to advance some agenda, and would never want someone else doing so in their name?


How many people who would NEVER use violence to advance some agenda?  Well if you take War out of the equation, then I would say 80-90% of the population.

I will admit that your results might be different if you mentioned death penality as violence and used examples like Rape, Murder, and all forms voilent crimes.




Offline jasonditz

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Why would you take war and imprisonment out?  

Offline jasonditz

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Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
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Originally posted by: jasonditz
Anyhow, the philosophy from which such consequences would follow is the philosophy of Leo Tolstoy.


Why didn't you mention that in the first place? It seemed you were condoning radical violence at first, which would have been really out there.  But now that you mention Tolstoy, your arguments make much more sense, as you're not condoning any violence or threat of violence. I still don't get the 99% theory, though. I've never heard of that before...


I mentioned that I was a pacifist fairly early on.  

Offline Sir_Stabbalot

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Originally posted by: jasonditz
I mentioned that I was a pacifist fairly early on.


I know, and that made me even more confused. But that was my fault at misunderstanding your stance.
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Offline decoyman

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Wow, this has gotten way off course. I appreciate the social debate that's going on (though I side with the people thinking that the "99% would use violence" statistic you're citing, jasonditz, is very exaggerated)...

If a "bad" person/organization does something good, should we measure that good thing based on that person/organization, or take it for its own worth?

A couple of points:
1. In this case, PETA is trying to draw attention to the fact that even animals who are to be killed to be used as food deserve humane treatment. Is this a valid stance? To me and many others, YES.
2. If KFC IS doing the things that the game claims (in-game, they failed to list any sources for this info, however), then it should be brought to light so that awareness is raised and conditions improved. This game is their vehicle for information.
3. PETA is not physically harming anyone with this game. Neither is it harming anyone emotionally (like insinuating to children that their parents are evil for fishing), and legally it's only defamation if it's not true (if my memory of Media Law class is holding up).

So. To me, this has gotten way out of hand and is missing the point/relevance of what originally started it: the game. Even if PETA is a horrible organization, this game (Nintendo copyright issues aside) has merit as a healthy means of helping incite social change, and I thank jasonditz for pointing it out.
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Offline UERD

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99% would use violence


I've heard the phrase 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' tossed around before. It's especially pertinent here. Ideas and theories are nice, but they are rather irrelevant if they have no explanatory power.

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Is this a valid stance? To me and many others, YES.


It is certainly a valid stance, when taken by its own merits. Coming from an organization that is inherently against the consumption of meat in any form, however, this stance strikes me as disingenuous.

I would rather another organization be advocating for humane food practices. To raise an example: if NAMBLA started advocating for stricter immigration controls, for whatever reason, there would be a lot of conservative pundits banging their heads against their desks.

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in-game, they failed to list any sources for this info, however


Therein lies the problem. PETA has shown itself to be at best, sensationalist, at worst untrustworthy in the past. And the game strikes me as far too gimmicky for an issue that should be taken a lot more seriously. To raise another example: an organization advocating stricter laws against domestic violence should not be raising awareness by creating a 'dodge the wife-beater' Flash game for random people on the Internet.
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Offline vudu

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Can't we go back to talking about the boring flash game?
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline UncleBob

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Wait wait... decoyman... If I eat live babies on a regular basis, then come out and talk about how horrible abortion is, does his mean people should listen to me about how horrible abortion is (assuming I'm using real facts and all)?  I have a hard time listening to a speech from the pot about how black the kettle is....
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Offline vudu

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Two completely separate things.

If you eat live babies you've at least given the kid a fair chance.  If the baby was better equipped to get away and/or fight back it would still be alive.  Survival of the fittest, and all.

If you attack it in the womb, it's light bombing Pearl Harbor.  Poor bloke wouldn't know what hit 'em.

So ... how about that flash game?
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Kairon

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That's a tough assessment though, because Human babies are essentially born prematurely, and unable to care for themselves. Now a GIRAFFE baby... as soon as that thing plops out it can stand and walk around. That's fair game. (<--- notice how this line of thinking condones veal)

...incidentally, a Filipino delicacy of which I am very fond is Balut. It's duck eggs, but let grown longer than typical chicken eggs. Then we cook it. We crack open the top, drink the amniotic fluid (it's like salty warm soup!), then continue peeling the shell away to eat the yolk, some albumen, and then the half-developed duck embryo.

If you get a bad one, the embryo has feathers and is totally yucky. Otherwise, it's bones aren't developed so it just comes apart in your mouth. Tastes just like chicken!

mmm so good.
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Offline vudu

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That's the most disgusting thing I've ever heard.  I want to try it.

EDIT:  OH GOD, MY EYES

Look at that second picture; I can't imagine putting that in my mouth.  I still want to try it.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Kairon

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Maybe it's because I've grown up with it, but I don't see what's so bad. It hasn't hatched yet, so it's closest comparison is to a normal chicken egg people eat everyday. But just with a little bit of duck meat and some soup included.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

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Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline UncleBob

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On a more crapp-rip off flash game related note:

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Originally mailed by: UncleBob

Hello once again, various Nintendo of America Rep... This recently arrived to my attention and I was really, really hoping that it was not officially endorsed in any way, shape or form.  However, the repeated use of various Nintendo characters and concepts (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, sound effects like the 1-Up, etc) made me wonder...

http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com/superchicksisters/index.asp

Thanks...



And the quasi-official reply from the random Nintendo of America rep who got this e-mail:

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Originally replied by: Shane from Nintendo

Hello,

At this time, Nintendo is not affiliated with PETA.  I will be sure to pass along your report to our Legal Department for further review.  We appreciate your bringing this issue to our attention.

Sincerely,

Nintendo of America Inc.
Shane O'Neil



Hopefully this travesty of a game will be removed soon.  Download it while you can.  Or better yet, don't.
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