Jonny returns to discuss games and game endings, plus a surprise guest joins the fray!
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rfn/29702
The crew is back together for this last episode before PAX East, but Jonny is immediately caught off guard by an unexpected voice -- it's Karlie Yeung! She came to America early for next week's convention and joined James at the microphone to break the curse of female guests on RFN, as you'll hear explained.
For New Business, Jonny catches up with Crush 3D, the stealth-released puzzle/platformer from Sega that may be worth your time to seek out. He also revisits Mutant Mudds (demo now available on the eShop) and tests the hypothesis that Rhythm Heaven Fever can be just as much fun to watch as it is to play. James and Karlie co-author audio impressions of Dokapon Kingdom, the bizarre party-RPG that turns out to be even weirder than anyone could expect. Jon didn't have any new games to bring up, so Greg wraps the segment. He mentions the extensive GAME store closures throughout the UK before continuing his adaptation to and enjoyment of Kid Icarus: Uprising, one of the most controversial Nintendo releases in quite a while.
After the break, we take an oblique approach to the Mass Effect 3 debate by examining the broader topic of game endings. The conversation spans endings retro to recent, Nintendo and otherwise, and we discover a few interesting truths about why games have endings, how they differ from other media, and why some are effective while others fail. It's a fun feature, but we still have enough time left to address a pair of questions for Listener Mail. One proposes a new review scoring method, while the other asks us to prioritize a gaming backlog. Send your own email questions so we'll have more to answer next time!
Don't forget that next weekend is PAX East, so there won't be a normal episode of RFN. Instead, we'll be live and in person at the Arachnid Theater for our third annual panel. If you can't make the trip this year, don't worry -- we'll record the panel and get it online as soon as possible. Also, stay tuned for details coming extremely soon on the long-awaited RFN shirt that will make its public debut at PAX East. We'll soon have details on how you can get your own for a reasonable price and show your support for the podcast without the pain or commitment of a tattoo!
Finally, it is time to spin up for the next RetroActive feature. We'll focus on WiiWare this round, so head over to the poll to view the nominated games and vote for the one you'd like us to play and discuss together on a future episode!
I was very surprised that James didn't mention 999 'endings'
I'm surprised no one mentioned Earthbound's ending. It's weird not only for a Nintendo game, but for games in general. There's a reason why it's called the first "art game." There are literally 10-page essays done on that ending. I thought it was very effective. Anyway, good episode!
don't know what it is about british accents that make them sound classy but Greg and Karlie's voices combined just gave this show an overdose of class.
It goes without saying that there was a great deal of hype surrounding Mass Effect 3, the follow-up to many people's Game of the Year and the conclusion to a trilogy. From everything I've heard, it sounds like BioWare did not live up to their promises, but to be totally honest, I'm surprised that such a vast contingent of players thought they would. The idea that this game would be the culmination of all your actions over the course of several other games always seemed utterly ludicrous to me. Did anybody truly believe they could pull it off?
..Yeah, Bioware was really big on your choices mattering. In ME1 they seemed to and really transferred to ME2, I haven't played ME3 and I'm only roughly halfway through ME2, but they really dialed it down so far in ME2, so I can see ME3 being just as disappointing.
3B. Though, to be fair, it doesn't seem that people had issue with the content of the ME3 ending, but that they felt it didn't have enough to do with their previous in-game choices - which, apparently, is the big draw in that franchise. Now, I have not played the game so I can't say for sure if that is the case. However, if the developers really did spend the last X years touting the impact of player choice, and then just toss it all out at the culmination of the trilogy? That is, indeed, rather "bullocks." =P
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5. 999 was one of my personal games of the year until its ending provided little to no explanation/resolution. I am eagerly anticipating its sequel and the fact that I will likely get fooled again in to thinking the creators want to give me any kind of explanation/resolution in this franchise =\
Here is a very good article (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/167963/Opinion_The_perception_of_interactivity.php) as to why ME3's ending failed.
I have no investment in this situation, having not played any of the Mass Effect games (maybe I'll get around to it when they are all nice and cheap). However, on a philosophical level, I'm kind of disappointed that BioWare caved in and is producing DLC for the sole purpose of appeasing the vocal detractors. Regardless of whether or not they fulfilled on all the promises they made for this series, I was hoping that the team had the integrity as designers to stand by their work. If some people dislike the direction that Mass Effect 3 took, that's their prerogative, but the developer should not feel pressured to add content in order to justify their decisions to these people.
I have no investment in this situation, having not played any of the Mass Effect games (maybe I'll get around to it when they are all nice and cheap). However, on a philosophical level, I'm kind of disappointed that BioWare caved in and is producing DLC for the sole purpose of appeasing the vocal detractors. Regardless of whether or not they fulfilled on all the promises they made for this series, I was hoping that the team had the integrity as designers to stand by their work. If some people dislike the direction that Mass Effect 3 took, that's their prerogative, but the developer should not feel pressured to add content in order to justify their decisions to these people.
How many movies have you seen that left you with the feeling the "Wow that was a horrible ending, why did they think that was any good?" only to find directors cuts and extra endings upon viewing which did much better.
But you don't have morons suing the movie studio and filing complaints with the FTC and BBB over it. You don't like the ending? Then make your own game. The games are the creative outlet for the developer and it's THEIR choice as to what happens. BioWare should not give into the demand of a few whiny fans who think they should get anything they want. Do they have a right to complain? Sure, anybody can complain about anything they want. Those fans should learn how to be mature though.
They can be artistic and have grand visions, but at the end of the day their primary goal is to be something that their audience wants to buy. Bioware spent the entirety of the Mass Effect series drumming-up user choice in the series, how a user's experience with the trilogy would be their story. That was the product they sold to gamers with Mass Effect 3, but it was not the product that gamers got and Bioware apparently failed to properly convey the story they wanted to tell instead. "The Customer is Always Right", so if you're going to deliver something that's not quite what they want, your audience had better think that it's what they wanted all along by the end.
In my view, it's the creator's vision that should take precedence, not the creator's perception of what the consumer thinks should happen. I don't want to be reductive, but I'm tempted to say that if the consumer isn't happy with the end product and reckons they could do better, they should make something themselves.
If you enjoy 99% of the game, then not liking that last 1% (even less than that) doesn't make them bad storytellers. And based on how many people have bought the game so far, the amount who are complaining are in the minority. I would bet that even if BioWare doesn't provide an alternate ending, most of those complaining will still buy their next game the day it releases.
Yea, as much as Bioware probably did "**** up," fan movements to change the content of a game after it's release sets a dangerous precedent and should not be allowed to happen.
On the topic of the ME3 ending. I have not played any of them, but I think that this debacle just portrays video game players as being selfish idiots. I get that the ending may be terrible etc. But trying to get the developer to change it is wrong and I hope Bioware does not give in to the demands.
Bug fixes and balance changes the content of a game. Are you saying all fan feed back is negative and developers should never give a damn?
Imagine if Nintendo had engineered in hooks to fix MK7 Mahu Wuho, a legitimate problem, would you be against fixing it? Do be careful about making blanket statements.
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You can be excused for having a short/limited gaming memory.
It doesn't matter if the ending is bad or if a new ending is better. Once it has been released that should always be the correct version of things. New ending may appease people, but it should never be the canonical version.Wrong on both accounts. Both sides of the same argument is based on the assumption that the artist is infallible. We know that artists are human beings, far from infallible beings. Declaring yourself an artist is no shield against bad work.
Look at star wars for a reverse of this argument.
Here's how I see this issue.
Whoever owns it has all the rights in the world to do what they please with it.
Lucas owns Star Wars. Its his so if he wants a mutation to spread throughout the Star Wars Universe turning everything into Gummy Caricatures its his right.
Nintendo owns Mario. If they want him hitting hookers and popping fools thats there perogative. I won't get the game, but its theres they can do what they please with it.
I think they are waiting for the gender testing results to come back.