Author Topic: Accidental Racism  (Read 28435 times)

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Offline walkingdead

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #75 on: March 03, 2009, 05:06:37 PM »
so let me just see if i can understand where your coming from.  you want me to constantly look over my shoulder when i say/type any thing to make sure im not offending any one.  is that what you want.  do you sit by the racist dictionary at all times when your monitoring this board and any others to make sure that you never say/type any thing that can be construed as racist at all times. 

i have alwayse made the point in all/most of my posts that i am not trying to harm any one intentionally... i was mearly trying to make the argument that you cant make all the people happy all the time and once and a while were going to say something wrong,  and with that i was only trying to also make the point that i am not going to apologies for an accident made with no ill intent.  thats all nothing more nothing less.

Offline Pale

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #76 on: March 03, 2009, 05:14:34 PM »
Maybe I'm not explaining myself well.

You are looking for a "rule" to live by.  For some reason you only see two extreme options.

Option A: Ignore people that claim something you say is racist because it can't be if you had no racist intent.

Option B: Constantly look over your shoulder when you say/type anything to make sure you're not offending anyone.


What I am saying is, there is no reason in the world to ignore the simple request made by James C. in this blog post because you choose to live an Option A lifestyle.  Why can't you make this one instance an exception because someone else took the time to let you know it can be offensive? You didn't have to do any work here. You just have to type a single abbreviation differently.

Again... This is not a black and white world.
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Offline Pale

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #77 on: March 03, 2009, 05:16:25 PM »
And if I'm misunderstanding you, and you actually do plan to make that change, you are just speaking about the racism issue as a whole, then we shouldn't be arguing anymore.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2009, 01:21:14 AM »
This really shouldn't be an argument about racism at all. It should come down to simple matters of convenience. Sure, it's not your fault if someone else gets offended by a word choice you made that you didn't mean to offend with. But what if that person is someone important? Or would have otherwise helped you?

It's not question of who should be responsible for someone feeling offended. It's a question of how well we can manipulate other people to our benefit, or detriment, with our words and actions. And that, in my opinion, is wholly based in the "selfishness" you're talking about walkingdead.

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Offline walkingdead

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2009, 10:28:30 AM »
And if I'm misunderstanding you, and you actually do plan to make that change, you are just speaking about the racism issue as a whole, then we shouldn't be arguing anymore.

well i think we can be done arguing any how cause i never once typed that slur that i can remember.  i do see where your coming from and my original argument was not about the jap/jpn thing but about racism in general...

by the way that was the first time i typed said slur.

Offline Dasmos

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2009, 10:33:46 AM »
walkingdead reminds me of someone. Hmmm.
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Offline RABicle

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #81 on: March 04, 2009, 10:43:52 AM »
How about Nip then? Like all those fucken Nips can got back to Nippon where everything is ****?

I lived with a guy who frequently used the term Nip. I'm not sure he does anymore now that his girlfriend is half Japanese.
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Offline RABicle

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #82 on: March 04, 2009, 10:46:15 AM »
Again... This is not a black and white world.
It's a white world.
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Offline Pale

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #83 on: March 04, 2009, 01:48:15 PM »
that statement wasn't a racial statement. Probably a poor choice of words given the topic.
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Offline walkingdead

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #84 on: March 04, 2009, 01:53:05 PM »
yea you may have offended someone with that.  i believe the correct term would be, its not a African American and European American  world.

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #85 on: March 04, 2009, 02:04:17 PM »
Time to offend non-casuals:

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Offline Stogi

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #86 on: March 04, 2009, 02:39:35 PM »
*Yawn*

I hate when people don't speak there mind,, regardless of offense.
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Offline RABicle

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #87 on: March 05, 2009, 09:14:36 AM »
that statement wasn't a racial statement. Probably a poor choice of words given the topic.
Yeah I know. I didn't actually mean to direct the link specifically at you either, it's for EVERYONE.
yea you may have offended someone with that.  i believe the correct term would be, its not a African American and European American  world.
The intended target of offence is actually white people who think that racism doesn't exist and that affirmative action (and other racial policies) put white people at a disadvantage.

For those who didn't bother reading the link I offered. Here is a song.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 09:32:36 AM by RABicle »
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Offline Halbred

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #88 on: March 05, 2009, 07:13:09 PM »
It takes two to tango, even when it comes to "slurs." Words are totally arbitrary combinations of sounds used to convey meaning. We ascribe meaning to particular words. In many, many cases, I think people today look for reasons to be offended, so that even when they know that, in the particular context, "Jap" is being used inoffensively, the person takes offense. I've met plenty of people like that--usually from the generation before mine.

I also think it's ridiculous that one "racial" group (I have my own definition of race) is able to use a variety of slurs that another group is not. That's just me. Personally, I think it's absolutely bizarre that black people throw the word "n*gger" around like it's an article (a, an, the) even while their own immediate ancestors were called that word as an unbelievably derogatory term.

It's like how Call of Duty: World at War is selling like hotcakes in Japan. There's just something wrong with that.

So people choose to use a word offensively, but other people look for opportunities to TAKE offense. It takes two to tango.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #89 on: March 05, 2009, 07:36:37 PM »
also is it really racism? wouldn't it be ethnicism(ethnicism isn't a word).

or if its specifically relating to the Japanese nationality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese

more info on the subject
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 07:41:10 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline walkingdead

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2009, 02:38:00 PM »
that statement wasn't a racial statement. Probably a poor choice of words given the topic.
Yeah I know. I didn't actually mean to direct the link specifically at you either, it's for EVERYONE.
yea you may have offended someone with that.  i believe the correct term would be, its not a African American and European American  world.
The intended target of offence is actually white people who think that racism doesn't exist and that affirmative action (and other racial policies) put white people at a disadvantage.

For those who didn't bother reading the link I offered. Here is a song.

racism isnt dead... if any one thinks it is you should see the Detroit city council... they are probably the most racist people outside of a clan rally that you will ever see.

Offline UltimatePartyBear

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #91 on: March 06, 2009, 04:25:35 PM »
I keep wanting to read this thread's title as "Occidental Racism."  I hope puns aren't considered racist.

Offline oohhboy

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #92 on: March 09, 2009, 01:18:23 AM »
I have taken a week in order to ferment on what has been said.

American cars a useless.

Jap cars are great.

There I have just converted the word American in to a racial slur, nay, a national slur. A racial slur into national praise.  The great thing about language, any language is the ability to change. During the Bush years anywhere outside of North America being called American can be considered a slight or outright insult if you were in the middle east. In europe, if you were an American and you made yourself known, there would be a high likely hood that people would come up to you and force you to defend your country's actions.

English Speaker A: Heal me... HEAL ME... I'M POISONED! COME ON YOU ARE THE WHITE MAGE!

Japanese Speaker: (Doesn't heal them.)

English Speaker B: He's Jap man, talk like this...

English Speaker B: {{White Mage}} -> {{Thief}} {{Please Help!}}

Japanese Speaker Leaves the Party and quits.

Maybe he wasn't Japanese. Maybe he was from Okinawa. They don't consider themselves Japanese.

The point I am trying to make here is that no matter how careful you are, no matter what you say you will insult some one. I am from Hong Kong. You would call me a Chinese. I would be insulted because one, I am not Chinese, two, I don't like people from mainland China, three, I consider myself a New Zealander above points one and two. There would be no way in hell you would have known that without me declaring so. However I wouldn't give two shits about it. Online I wouldn't bother correcting you. Face to face I would politely correct you. But I wouldn't throw a fit over it because I know that you know that you couldn't possibly know and at the end of the day I don't care. Racial slurs are the weakest for of insults you can use on me and used exclusively by the lazy.

What doesn't kill or maim you makes you stronger. As much as I would like to see the end of discrimination, humans are inherently stupid and the world imperfect. While people should be careful as to what they say, people shouldn't be overly critical of what other people say. How careful you are is up to you and how thick skinned you are is also up to you, but I urge both sides of the same coin to buck up and meet the challenge.

I feel James C's Blog post an over reaction, however it did open up useful discussion and that is all you should have asked for.
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Offline blackfootsteps

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #93 on: March 18, 2009, 03:01:19 AM »
Its not derogatory in the UK or Australia, and I'm not sure if it is or not in Canada.

It is used in a derogatory sense in Australia.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #94 on: March 18, 2009, 03:50:28 AM »
also i found it quite weird during the Bush years that the United States was now generally called America, what a change. Growing up we rarely called the country America, normally we called the country: United States, U.S, The U.S, U.S.A, and the U.S of A. People were referred to Americans, simply because there's no snappy name for the country like Washingtonia, or Canada, or Venuzuela
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Offline Nephilim

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #95 on: March 19, 2009, 02:04:19 PM »
Its not derogatory in the UK or Australia, and I'm not sure if it is or not in Canada.

It is used in a derogatory sense in Australia.

More of a refence to the quality of items long ago, you wont hear many people under 20 say "jap crap", now that they all love fast and the furious tokyo rush xtreme intial d racing carsssssssssssssssss.
Only people you will find saying "Japs" are the older gens, babyboomers
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 02:06:14 PM by Nephilim »

Offline Stratos

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #96 on: March 19, 2009, 08:10:39 PM »
My grandpa used that term when he was alive. 'Course he did fight in WWII and that probably did influence it a great deal since they were the enemy and the killers of his friends and comrades. He didn't have a high opinion of Germans too.
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Offline Tuxedo.Bond

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #97 on: April 04, 2009, 11:18:51 PM »
*Double Post*
« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 12:30:05 AM by Tuxedo.Bond »

Offline Tuxedo.Bond

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #98 on: April 05, 2009, 12:27:13 AM »
None of my friends seemed bothered by it, but when I asked "What if it was called a Chink Cookie?" they suddenly got my point.

Chinese isn't spelled with a K. You can't spell Japanese without Jap.

The word "Jap" is racist.

It sounds wrong, because it IS wrong.

In your opinion. Words don't have the same meaning in every culture.

What I didn't expect to see was people actually defending the use of the word!

You didn't expect people to not all have the same culture and opinion as you?

if it's offensive to a certain group of people, we should strive to not say it, right?

Not everyone has the same culture. Avoiding thousands of words because someone, somewhere, determines it to be derogatory in their opinion and culture is ridiculous, in my opinion.

I'm confused, someone says, "Hey, this term is construed as a racial slur by some people," and we're arguing that they are wrong?

I accept that the term may be used as a slur and would prefer not to offend people. I don't think anyone is arguing that people might use the abbreviation and not know what it means, of course that is going to happen, I think the point is that you should be cognizant of the term and know not to use it because some people might take offense. Why is this so complicated?

The discussion is about stating as fact that a word is derogatory, when it clearly is culturally subjective.



Next thing I know I'll have some white guy telling me I can't refer to my own people as orientals.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 12:28:59 AM by Tuxedo.Bond »

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Accidental Racism
« Reply #99 on: April 05, 2009, 03:13:12 AM »
I think I can clear up the problem here.  This entire debate rests on the fact that words have meaning.

Let's look at the meaning of "racism"

1.    a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.    a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.    hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Can anyone tell me how someone abbreviating "Japanese" as "Jap" is, in any way, shape, or form one of those three things?  Is one race superior because another race calls the second race by an abbreviation?
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