Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: matt oz on September 01, 2008, 02:41:05 PM
Title: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: matt oz on September 01, 2008, 02:41:05 PM
I'm doing a presentation about cooperative games for one of my classes on Thursday. It's going to cover the history and trends of co-op gaming, using examples of different play mechanics. Here's what I have so far:
• Gauntlet - the first(?) 4-player arcade game • Contra - a difficult game made manageable with 2 players • Diablo II - online co-op through battle.net • Animal Crossing - non-simultaneous multiplayer • The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures - GBA connectivity, gimmicky co-op • Super Mario Galaxy - player assistance
I think I'm off to a good start, but I figured it can't hurt to ask the opinion of everyone here. I'd like my list to be as varied as possible, so if there's something that can possibly replace a Nintendo game, I'd be interested in hearing about it. What games are better in co-op than in single player? What games have offered unique co-op experiences? (Also, like Animal Crossing, it doesn't have to be simultaneous co-op, either.)
I'm off to find gameplay footage on Youtube now. Is there a way to put a Youtube video in a Powerpoint presentation? That'd be great.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: bustin98 on September 01, 2008, 03:14:54 PM
Rainbow Six has always been a great tactical co-op game. I'm playing through both Vegas games now, but even the N64 version has some great gameplay that is different than the usual FPS.
Gears of War is also a great co-op game, even with areas of the map made specifically to break you apart for different vantage points during battle.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Svevan on September 01, 2008, 03:20:03 PM
Gunstar Heroes Gunstar Heroes Gunstar Heroes (though it probably slots in right next to Contra)
I know this subject is taboo around here, but there's no denying that the major co-op genre today is MMOs. Ultima Online, Everquest, WoW, all should be mentioned in some manner, since they are entirely about cooperation, and in some cases are UNPLAYABLE without it.
edit: second Gears of War, which is made entirely for co-op
also, what about accidental co-op games, like Odama and Trauma Center Wii?
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: DAaaMan64 on September 01, 2008, 03:24:33 PM
Lol MMOs are great for Co-op, I liked Guild Wars quite a lot. Gears is great game too.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: SixthAngel on September 01, 2008, 03:32:38 PM
Sonic 2. It is the first game with on the fly coop. At any time the second player just needs to pick the controller and he is Tails. It also doesn't punish the first player if Tails dies by having him respawn after some time (Halo used the same nonpunishing coop)
Zombies Ate My Neighbors just for being awesome.
There was an old Battletech game (genesis?) where one player controlled the mechs walking while the other controlled the torso/weapons/aiming. It was a very unique coop experience.
Double Dragon, nuff said.
Smash TV. You must be cooperative to survive but it also gives a score and ranking encouraging as much competition and item stealing as possible.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (NES). The game was so hard friends and I each had a specialty so he would fight some guys and then I would try to swim to the bombs. Coop out of sheer difficulty.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: matt oz on September 01, 2008, 04:08:24 PM
These are some great suggestions so far. Thanks, guys.
I considered doing an MMO in my presentation, but I've never played one and have no knowledge of the gameplay mechanics at all. I guess they're too important not to cover, though, so I'll have to add one in. After a tiny bit of research, I think I'll use Ultima Online. It wasn't the first graphic MMORPG, but it seems to have set the standard of future games in the genre more so than the ones that came before it.
Gears of War is a good suggestion, too. I'll have to look into the different vantage points that bustin mentioned. Is there anything else that's unique about it?
Sonic 2 also sounds like a good choice with on-the-fly co-op. My list only has one game from the '90s, so it'll be good to have another one.
I think my limited gaming experience is a problem here. I was a Nintendo-only gamer till early 2001. Plus, I've mostly played single player games all my life, so I'm not too familiar with co-op games, particularly of this generation.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: SixthAngel on September 01, 2008, 04:27:18 PM
I don't think I would use Gears of War as being designed for co-op. Halo 1 and especially Halo 2 are similar games and designed for coop first. The main vehicile is the warthog that basically requires two people to be good and there are tons of sections with mutliple vantage points and other parts that are designed to have players work together to attack.
The only real difference in Gears is that the second player is actually part of the story and the game Brute Force for the original xbox already took care of that. Every mission in Brute Force was made for mutliple characters even if you were alone so if you had no partner at the time you would have to postion the computer AI in ambush locations, good vantage points, or have them use their abilities at certain times. Gears did nothing new in the coop front to deserve a mention on this list of coop games.
The battletech game I was thinking of is called Battletech. It is for the Genesis and two players contolled a mech from an overhead perspective, one moving it and the other aiming in whatever direction they want and shooting.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Svevan on September 01, 2008, 04:45:56 PM
I don't think I would use Gears of War as being designed for co-op. Halo 1 and especially Halo 2 are similar games and designed for coop first. The main vehicile is the warthog that basically requires two people to be good and there are tons of sections with mutliple vantage points and other parts that are designed to have players work together to attack. The only real difference in Gears is that the second player is actually part of the story and the game Brute Force for original xbox already took care of that. Every mission in that game was made for mutliple characters even if you were alone so you would have to postion the computer AI in ambush locations, good vantage points, or have them use their abilities at certain times. Gears did nothing new in the coop front to deserve a mention on this list of coop games.
The battletech game I was thinking of is called Battletech. It is for the Genesis and two players contolled a mech from an overhead perspective, one moving it and the other aiming in whatever direction they want and shooting.
I guess, then, the only real difference between Halo and Gears is that the one of them is fun to play.
Gameplay innovation or no, Gears' feels in every way like a two player game, while Halo, no matter how hard they try, is a multiplayer combat game (co-op is fun but not great). I think this has to do with level design, and the way enemies spawn until their holes are destroyed, and the various branching paths. I've never played Brute Force, but only someone who's played both can comment on the implementation of these gameplay elements, rather than who did them first. Who came first is only half the story.
For that reason, I think WoW is the MMO to mention, esp. because it attempts to work also as a single player experience despite the fact that the entire genre is built on cooperative interaction. It's an interesting formula (and I don't know much about it), and its the complete opposite of Everquest (which I played a lot), which for most race/class combos was impossible to play "solo" past level 10-15.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Smakian on September 01, 2008, 05:46:13 PM
Left 4 Dead. Holy crap. I'd say more, but I'm about to post it its own topic.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 01, 2008, 06:29:57 PM
Mario Kart Wii, starring NOA REGGIE, versus anyone brave enough to try.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Morari on September 01, 2008, 07:13:53 PM
The first Diablo had co-op as well, and neither were limited to just Battle.net. Titan Quest is pretty awesome as well, though borrows heavily from Diablo II and Lord of Destruction.
As for the history lesson, I don't see any class based first person shooters on there. As far as I know, that entire subgenre began with the Quake mod, Team Fortress, which has of course grown to be very popular.
I don't see any MMOs listed either. I believe that Ultima was first to the part, though obviously everyone is more familar with Ever Quest and now World of WarCraft. These games in themselves sprang up from the even older MUDs, which could also be listed.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: matt oz on September 01, 2008, 07:40:54 PM
All right, here's my updated list of games to cover:
- Gauntlet (1985), Arcade - Contra (1987), Arcade, NES - Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (1992), Genesis* - Quake/Team Fortress mod (1996), PC - Diablo series (1997), PC, Mac* - Ultima Online (1997), PC - Animal Crossing (2003), Gamecube* - The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventure (2004), Gamecube* - Super Mario Galaxy (2007), Wii
*these may not make it into the presentation
I'm not too concerned about having every game genre on my list. I'm just concerned with games that have done something different with co-op gameplay. It doesn't necessarily need to be a comprehensive history.
Quote from: the syllabus
"Present a thorough overview of the current and previous research in an area of interactive multimedia.... What work is being done in this area?... Finally, consider what has yet to be figured out. End your presentation by posting a series of questions inspired by your research, questions you hope to investigate and answer over the course of the semester."
In addition to talking about these games, I need to extrapolate my own idea from it. (I've already done that, by the way. I'm kind of working backwards here.) The background on co-op games is just a means to convey my idea to the class and to try to get people to work on my project with me. It's an idea for a game that I've had for a while, and I've finally realized what I want to do with it. Homer Simpson voice: Patent pending!
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 01, 2008, 08:00:08 PM
No mention of Battlefield 1 or 2 makes me sad. That series has done amazing things with co-op especially with the squads.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on September 01, 2008, 08:34:15 PM
No mention of Crackdown makes me sad. It's by far one of the best co-op games and lets you play the single player game entirely online cooperatively.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: matt oz on September 01, 2008, 08:49:57 PM
Stop it! I have to draw the arbitrary line somewhere, otherwise I'll never get this done.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Stogi on September 01, 2008, 09:15:29 PM
BATTLETOADS
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Morari on September 01, 2008, 10:07:28 PM
All right, here's my updated list of games to cover:
- Gauntlet (1985), Arcade - Contra (1987), Arcade, NES - Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (1992), Genesis* - Quake/Team Fortress mod (1996), PC - Diablo series (1997), PC, Mac* - Ultima Online (1997), PC - Animal Crossing (2003), Gamecube* - The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventure (2004), Gamecube* - Super Mario Galaxy (2007), Wii
*these may not make it into the presentation
Sonic's co-op was relatively unimportant, even within the context of the game at that time. Being able to lift Sonic up with Tails was cool and all, but certainly didn't add much. Likewise, I feel the same way about Mario Galaxy's co-op.
Diablo was all about co-op however. No one really played the game in singleplayer, as Battle.net was all the rage. Of course, not all of that was co-op given that PKing and collecting ears was so much fun.
Animal Crossing never really felt cooperative, per say. You never interacted with anyone else and you certainly didn't help one another. You just happened to sell and buy items. While you weren't really competing, I'd certainly have a hard time calling the game play cooperative.
The Four Swords Adventure could definately make for an interesting mention. Switching back and forth from the television screen and GameBoy was an interesting idea to say the least. It's sad that the idea never really evolved past the "novelty" factor however. It's even more surprising that we don't see more stuff like that form the Wii and DS given their wireless connectivity.
If you're looking for more genre defining co-op games, you might consider looking at the on rails arcade shooters. The later installments of Time Crisis were particularly impressive with multiple cabinets hooked together, providing each player with different paths through the levels and erupting into areas of crossfire between the two. Also, it may be worth mentioning Rock Band toward the end, perhaps as a "looking toward the future" type of thing. ;)
No mention of Battlefield 1 or 2 makes me sad. That series has done amazing things with co-op especially with the squads.
Would Battlefield 1 be Battlefield 1942? If that is the case, I'd argue that it added very little to the co-op landscape. It is largely credited for bringing vehicles and wide-open environments into the FPS fray, but we all know that Tribes did that far beforehand.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 01, 2008, 11:05:55 PM
Morari's right (whoa, that's a first), Rock Band is a good, unique co-op game.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Mario on September 01, 2008, 11:21:38 PM
PAC
MAN
VS
Even though half the time even the ghosts are competing with each other for the damn fruit.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 01, 2008, 11:30:46 PM
Even though half the time even the ghosts are competing with each other for the damn fruit.
Yes, yes, a million times yes. I demand a WiiWare version.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 01, 2008, 11:52:16 PM
Quote
Would Battlefield 1 be Battlefield 1942? If that is the case, I'd argue that it added very little to the co-op landscape. It is largely credited for bringing vehicles and wide-open environments into the FPS fray, but we all know that Tribes did that far beforehand.
I thought this was about most influential co-op games? That is like saying that Doom II wasn't influential because Wolfenstein was the first 1st person shooter. BF 1942 was an amazingly influential co-op game in many ways, whether it be balancing so many vehicles and weapons, to truly pushing the envelope on team play in a massive FPS game. Battlefield 2 took things a step farther by innovating Squads with hiearchy. Is it perfect? No not yet but it has made great strides towards innovating how co-op can and will work in the future. Tribes is a dead franchise and didn't have nearly the impact the Battlefield series had, while it definitely deserves props for setting the groundwork, BF1942 took it and expanded upon all aspects of it. Now with what appears to be the implementation of destructible buildings in the next PC iteration there is more room to further innovate how co-op shooters can work and increasing strategic elements. Also Codename Eagle was the real precursor to BF1942.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: SixthAngel on September 02, 2008, 04:04:13 AM
Sonic's co-op was relatively unimportant, even within the context of the game at that time. Being able to lift Sonic up with Tails was cool and all, but certainly didn't add much. Likewise, I feel the same way about Mario Galaxy's co-op.
Did we play the same game? The entire game had a second character follow you around that could hurt or get hurt by enemies. it was built with the idea in mind. Picking up the second controller allowed another person to play with you and have all the same moves and be able to damage the enemies the same. It was especially good for inexperienced players since Tails dieing had no consequences and still allowed them to play and often try more dangerous moves then usual becase dieing was only an inconvenience, not game over. (my least favorite part of Halo 2 is that legendary has no friend respawn. It ruins the high difficulty because it requires both players to be great and do everything right all the time.)
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on September 02, 2008, 08:21:53 AM
Dungeon Explorer on the Turbo-Grafx and Wii Virtual Console because 1. It's gauntlet like and 2. Both versions support 5 players (on wii you need a mix of wii remotes and gamecube controllers)
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Ian Sane on September 02, 2008, 12:15:38 PM
There are no beat-em-ups in that list. Beat-em-ups are the quintessential co-op game. Honestly I feel that excluding them would make the entire presentation invalid. Someone mentioned Double Dragon. Include that or some other major game in the genre like Streets of Rage, Final Fight or Golden Axe. Double Dragon started the trend so it's the most influencial. But the concept is so sound: you and a buddy beat the crap out of punks. I live with my brother and if we want to play a quick game together we bust out an old beat-em-up for the Genesis or SNES.
The X-Men arcade game would be a really good game to include. It was six players and playing that with a bunch of friends and strangers in the arcades was such an experience. You can't really recreate that now even playing the game in MAME. The atmosphere of the arcade and the ability for total strangers to join in was so important. Playing the game now on MAME reveals that the actual "guts" of the game are repetitive and weak.
I wouldn't include Super Mario Galaxy. The "co-op" in that game is weak as hell. It has no substance at all. It would be one of the first games I would cut from that list.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: SixthAngel on September 02, 2008, 12:29:27 PM
I forgot light gun games. They are excellent co-op games. Virtua Cop, Time Crisis etc. are all so much more fun and easier with a friend.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Stogi on September 02, 2008, 01:38:00 PM
SUNSET RIDERS
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 02, 2008, 02:43:44 PM
Looking at the lists here it is pretty amazing how many good co-op games there are around. It is too bad there aren't more. :(
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Spinnzilla on September 02, 2008, 03:52:11 PM
Looking at the lists here it is pretty amazing how many good co-op games there are around. It is too bad there aren't more. :(
I dunno, that has like a sudden turn around or something. With games like Left 4 Dead, Gears of Wars 2 and Resident Evil 5 on the horizon, all sporting big emphasis on co-op I think we're in for a big year co-op wise.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 02, 2008, 03:57:02 PM
Looking at the lists here it is pretty amazing how many good co-op games there are around. It is too bad there aren't more. :(
I dunno, that has like a sudden turn around or something. With games like Left 4 Dead, Gears of Wars 2 and Resident Evil 5 on the horizon, all sporting big emphasis on co-op I think we're in for a big year co-op wise.
I guess that is true. Of course I am most excited for BF3 which SHOULD be out next yea.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 02, 2008, 04:41:20 PM
Tales of Sequelia has co-op.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: matt oz on September 02, 2008, 04:53:54 PM
There are no beat-em-ups in that list. Beat-em-ups are the quintessential co-op game. Honestly I feel that excluding them would make the entire presentation invalid.
As mentioned before, I'm not looking to do a comprehensive, genre-spanning history of cooperative video games. I only need to talk for 15 minutes or so, and that includes the time I spend showing gameplay videos. I appreciate your concern for the validity of my work, though. Really.
I wouldn't include Super Mario Galaxy. The "co-op" in that game is weak as hell. It has no substance at all. It would be one of the first games I would cut from that list.
That's part of the reason I'm including it. It's not necessarily a great step forward in co-op play, but it does something different than every other game out there. It's the same reason I want to mention Animal Crossing. They were sidesteps, if you will, in the realm of video game co-op. Plus, they actually relate more to my own project idea, since the game I have in mind is not a traditional co-op game.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 02, 2008, 05:19:55 PM
If you're mentioning Mario Galaxy you might as well give a shout out to Wind Waker with the Tingle GBA assistant.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: vudu on September 03, 2008, 02:50:48 PM
Battletoads is notable for being a hard game that is made even harder when played cooperatively.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Morari on September 03, 2008, 06:37:34 PM
Harder? Battletoads is probably impossible in co-op. You loose one newbie on the hoverbikes and that's it! I don't even want to think of the woes involved upon reaching the snake maze or spiraling tower.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Mashiro on September 03, 2008, 08:18:47 PM
No one mentioned Bubble Bobble?
BUBBLE BOBBLE FTW!
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Schadenfreude on September 03, 2008, 08:38:38 PM
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: matt oz on September 03, 2008, 11:25:19 PM
Well, I'm giving my presentation in less than 12 hours. Here are the games I'm featuring: Gauntlet, Contra, Quake/Team Fortress, Diablo, Ultima Online, Zelda: Four Swords, Mario Galaxy Then I'm also mentioning Little Big Planet, Fable II, Animal Crossing, World of Warcraft, and Gears of War in some way.
I'm hoping that my Sackboy image bumps my grade up a few points. You can't look at him without smiling!
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: blackfootsteps on September 04, 2008, 12:35:53 AM
I've been playing Pixel Junk Monsters with my girlfriend, co-ordinating the defence makes the game.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: AV on September 04, 2008, 11:02:06 PM
Battletoads is notable for being a hard game that is made even harder when played cooperatively.
Angry VG nerd new episode (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/39469.html)
Surprised nobody said anything about Perfect Dark
It actually had Counter-Co-op Where you could play as the enemies trying to stop a person from completing a single player mission. it was fun I did it a few times, I have no idea why that idea has DIED and never done again. Sure the framerate in Perfect dark was far from superb but it was fun and notable.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: ThePerm on September 05, 2008, 06:02:49 AM
Castle Crashers!
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 05, 2008, 09:52:42 AM
If you forget to put in the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Arcade Game for 4 player action I will be disappointed.
The Simpson's arcade actually had CO-Op attacks for a beat'em up.
And a little unknown but brilliant arcade game Trog was a mix of Pac Man with Co-Op and competitive elements depending on how your group plays.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Morari on September 05, 2008, 07:57:59 PM
Well, I'm giving my presentation in less than 12 hours. Here are the games I'm featuring: Gauntlet, Contra, Quake/Team Fortress, Diablo, Ultima Online, Zelda: Four Swords, Mario Galaxy Then I'm also mentioning Little Big Planet, Fable II, Animal Crossing, World of Warcraft, and Gears of War in some way.
I'm hoping that my Sackboy image bumps my grade up a few points. You can't look at him without smiling!
World of Warcraft seems pointless to mention if you already have Ultima. Maybe the two could be merged into a "how it began and what it has become" slide for that specific genre. You'd really have to at least give Ever Quest a nod in that case however.
Gears of War seems like an awfully boring choice. It's simply two people playing a shooter together. DooM did that. :P
I still think you're missing out by not including Rock Band. It has a very interesting and unique take on co-op gameplay.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: UncleBob on September 05, 2008, 11:18:46 PM
Kirby Super Star?
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: ThePerm on September 07, 2008, 04:18:19 AM
damn my long post didn't make it through. I just got done playing Castle Crashers on XBLA, and it was fantastic. I love co-op games. My buddies and I used to play the Teenage mutant Ninja turtles games all the time. I remember loving battle toads, double dragon, rampage. I would say my all time favorite is definitely River City Ransom. there have been newer games that were great coo-op like Gears of War, which is basically modern Contra. The co-op game is under-utilized. Hopefully, the trend continues and there are more and better multi player options.
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: Athrun Zala on September 12, 2008, 08:02:40 PM
I can't believe it took about 14 replies before someone mentioned Battletoads... (and about 38 to Perfect Dark!!)
Rebel Strike's Co-op mode was pretty cool too...
also, everyone fails for not mentioning Secret of Mana
Title: Re: The Best Cooperative Games
Post by: vudu on September 13, 2008, 09:59:44 AM
Secret of Mana fails for not being worth mentioning.
