Author Topic: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)  (Read 404259 times)

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Offline alegoicoe

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #650 on: February 05, 2013, 05:17:12 PM »
I don't know the exact number of BLOPS 2 sales, but I know the online community is abysmal. I think once Nintendo comes around and starts pumping out AAA titles, then third parties either will start to publish games or it will be Gamecube all over again.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #651 on: February 05, 2013, 05:35:50 PM »
Looks like there's a new ZombiU Wii U bundle coming. It's a deluxe set Wii U so it even still has Nintendo Land, plus the ZombiU game, a ZombiU artbook, and a Pro controller for $399.99. So it's $60 less than the MSRP of those items separately.

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/wii-u-nintendo-wii-u-32gb-zombiu-deluxe-set-limited-edition-black-wii-u/10239187.aspx?path=e684c2e3144e989998ba8348375d1771en02

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #652 on: February 05, 2013, 05:39:07 PM »
A third party can't just port a game to the Wii U like flicking a switch.  They have to devote some time and effort to learning the hardware.  Those same third parties are likely working on their next gen games right now.  If the Wii U is not capable of PS4/720 ports then the pipeline for games that can be ported to the Wii U is 2013 and a bit into 2014.  Once the new systems are out they will be the focus.  "Oh what about the PS2?"  Yeah the PS2 had some legs left but what games were getting released after the PS3 came out?  You get your annual sports games like Madden and compilations of retro arcade games and localizations of obscure RPGs that came out years before in Japan.  Once the new systems come out the third party games that actually matter are made for the new systems.  That's just how it works.  For games that are actually relevant the Wii U has a lifespan of about a year for multiplatform development IF it ends up being grossly underpowered.

I will admit that the third party approach to the Wii U is rather lazy and doomed to failure however.  You can't expect ports of games that have already been out for months on other systems to make a dent on a new console.  But I don't buy into this "third parties just hate Nintendo" nonsense that started up on the Wii.  The Wii was the best selling console.  It would not have been good business sense to ignore it for petty reasons.  Now not all third parties have good business sense but for damn near ALL of them to think that way just isn't probable.  They didn't support it because it didn't fit their business strategy of multiplatform development.  We know the Wii hardware was inferior and that theory makes way more sense.  They figure the Wii U will just be the same situation again so they're not bothering to get on board unless Nintendo demonstrates that the Wii U will be different.  Any effort we have seen has been rather half-assed and thus may create a self-fulfilling prophecy.  But often business decisions are conservative and based on the status quo.  The status quo is that Nintendo's console will be too underpowered to allow for easy multiplatform development and that it will sell to casuals, kids and Nintendo nuts that will not buy the sort of third party games that sell to the Playstation and Xbox audience.  Most publishers assume that things will stay the same until things actually change.  So a quick-n-dirty PS360 port at launch is a low cost title.

Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #653 on: February 05, 2013, 06:22:59 PM »
Nintendo is losing money on the Wii U.  They will not lower the price until the price to make it is low enough that even if they lower the price to customers, they will not be losing money on it.  So don't expect any huge drop in price anytime soon.  The most I expect is a $20-30 decrease around the time the new systems come out.  If they drop it too much, the marketing will become that it's inferior in every way because it's cheaper.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #654 on: February 05, 2013, 06:56:08 PM »
A third party can't just port a game to the Wii U like flicking a switch.  They have to devote some time and effort to learning the hardware.  Those same third parties are likely working on their next gen games right now.
No one said it was like flicking a switch. However, no one believes it's difficult as evidenced, once again, by a developer opening admitting to doing so with their main title in a matter of weeks. They're not being tasked to push the hardware; just port assets. And many 3rd parties don't handle ports anyway so even if they are working on a PS3/360 game or an Orbis/Durango game, that's not really an issue. They work on the lead platform and Random Developer #487726 handles the ports. It didn't make a whole lot of sense for EA, for example, to say, "Gee, Straight Right work on Mass Effect 3 for Wii U and we'll release it without the 1st 2 RIGHT F-ING AFTER we release the entire trilogy for the same price on PS3 and 360." They could have had Straight Right work on a Wii U version of Dead Space 3 that entire time and released it alongside the others today. It came out today. I don't know if EA commented on the sales of the Wii U version of ME3, but if they're disappointed, they have no one to blame but themselves.
Quote
But I don't buy into this "third parties just hate Nintendo" nonsense that started up on the Wii.  The Wii was the best selling console.  It would not have been good business sense to ignore it for petty reasons.  Now not all third parties have good business sense but for damn near ALL of them to think that way just isn't probable.  They didn't support it because it didn't fit their business strategy of multiplatform development.
I don't buy it either. They were just flat-out f-ing stupid sometimes (see: above). EA has just been weird regarding Wii U so maybe they're not the best example. With Wii, 3rd parties in general bet on the wrong horse. Win some, lose some. Everyone was excited about the HD era until companies were going under left and right. What do they do with all those titles in the works? They can't cancel them because they invested too much; it was safer to see the projects through and cross their fingers that they make it back. Square Enix is still fiddling with Final Fantasy Versus XIII.

Yeah, porting to the Wii was impossible, but porting to the Wii U is not, especially not right now. 3rd parties have at least a year or 2 to port their best over to an audience ready and willing to support them so long as they're not treated like 2nd class gamers. "Let's just not port anything." What? How does that even make sense? That's a bad business decision because they're leaving money on the table. There doesn't need to be a Wii specific version this time. They Wii U version is the PS3/360 version.

I'm not terribly convinced that Orbis/Durango launch/1st year (maybe even 2nd year) titles are going to be so advanced that Wii U can't handle them. It has a more modern design and it's already more powerful than the current generation. 3rd parties have to devote time and effort on those new consoles too. This is why launch titles on new consoles typically don't look a whole generation better than the later titles of the previous generation. Can the Wii U handle that? It may not be that much of a stretch. And again, scalability. However, I have a feeling 3rd parties are going to do Judo flips and dodge that very real fact. They're not going HD to SD; they'd only have to go HD to HD and scale it down. We already saw it this generation. Crytek got the Crysis series on PS3/360. Wasn't that **** never supposed to happen?

I just do not believe that the specs have anything to do with support, not anymore anyway. It's just a convenient excuse to use when cornered. It simply doesn't work when you're talking to any mildly intelligent person. I don't know what the real reasons are. Maybe they just don't believe in Wii U as a platform. That's not going to change if 3rd parties have no presence there.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 07:04:31 PM by Adrock »

Offline Stogi

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #655 on: February 05, 2013, 07:30:34 PM »
Nintendo is losing money on the Wii U.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading it here on this very site that they recoup their losses with a single game purchase, first party or otherwise. I could be wrong though.

Still your point stands. However, I think Nintendo will only lower the price even a scant 20 bucks if Sony and Microsoft play aggressive with their pricing.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 07:32:46 PM by Stogi »
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #656 on: February 05, 2013, 07:35:46 PM »
Seriously I be shocked if Durango\Orbis come in for less than $500 for the good version and $400 for the gimped.
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #657 on: February 05, 2013, 08:00:38 PM »
Nintendo is losing money on the Wii U.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading it here on this very site that they recoup their losses with a single game purchase, first party or otherwise. I could be wrong though.

Still your point stands. However, I think Nintendo will only lower the price even a scant 20 bucks if Sony and Microsoft play aggressive with their pricing.

I'll back you on that one because I recall reading that as well, and I don't get my gaming news outside NWR/NWR Forums.

Um, Wii U already has a attach rate of 4:1. Software sales for Wii U software (first and third party) are doing pretty good.

Give it up, you have to be insane to think a 57% pricecute will happen. They don't need a pricecut, they just need to get out more software.

It's so strange when TJ makes an accurate post..

@Ian: "Business decisions are usually conservative" yet how many developes went under during the last gen? Keep pouring money into HD development and hope every game is the next COD? Doesn't sound very conservative to me, especially when there was a clear platform leader leaps and bounds above the rest. How did they support Nintendo then? Like this. Don't give me that BS about Nintendo's image either, a **** ton of people bought Red Steel at launch showing there was an audience for real games, it happened to suck and people got jaded but if GOOD games came out, they'd be bought. Problem is, no one tried except Nintendo, and the few that did got lost in a sea of shovelware.

Serious question: what happens to last gen's dev-kits once the new gen arrives? Everyone had PS2 dev-kits, and since Wii was closer to that than the HD consoles, the conservative decision would be to release some good games for Wii which had a huge install base alongside the HD consoles. All they had to do was start with what they know and eventually work up to get something that looks like Mario Galaxy. Oh, I'm not talking about the same games either, make some new **** up. They could've experimented a little, maybe introduced some new IP's even, just something built for the ground up for Wii that wasn't catered to 'rubes' - the lower development cost and profits gained would've kept some of them afloat. They had like 6 years to get their **** together and instead it was excuse after excuse after excuse until they filed for bankruptcy.

@Ian: "I don't believe 3rd parties just hate nintendo" aren't you the one that reminds us daily how Nintendo burned 3rd party bridges in the past and thats why most "ran to Sony and never looked back" (I'm pretty sure thats a recent quote too!)?? Some 3rd parties genuinely hate nintendo, and it still isn't a conservative decision to ignore them out of spite. They wouldn't be the longest standing publisher and developer if they weren't doing SOMETHING right.
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Offline azeke

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #658 on: February 05, 2013, 08:50:08 PM »
You forgot about sales?  Number 1 reason why the WII U isn't getting support is because 3rd party sales for the initial patch of games were poor to say the least.
Wrong.

Third parties have already decided to snub Wii U long before it's launch. All those ridiculous statements from Konami, Gearbox, Take Two, EA and many other publishers "explaining" why that or this game is not coming to Wii U , all of them came way before console even launched.

This had nothing to do with sales. They just decided to screw over Wii U and they did it. Because third party logic.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #659 on: February 05, 2013, 10:12:36 PM »
Nintendo is losing money on the Wii U.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading it here on this very site that they recoup their losses with a single game purchase, first party or otherwise. I could be wrong though.

Still your point stands. However, I think Nintendo will only lower the price even a scant 20 bucks if Sony and Microsoft play aggressive with their pricing.

I think best case scenario, Delux Wii U becomes the only available platform (in both black and white) and it only cost $299.99

but it's more likely likely close to what you said.... $20-$30 price drop

Offline alegoicoe

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #660 on: February 06, 2013, 12:22:14 AM »
[size=78%]I just think Nintendo should concentrate on the Japanese market and start making heavy deals with key companies in the industry such as SquareEnix, Konami and others to start bringing their flagship titles to the Wii U. I think the Japanese industry is now getting a hold on HD development and financially they are not ready to make a leap in terms of developing new assets and working with next-next Gen systems. Wii U is their perfect platform to make beautiful games for cheap when compared to the coming systems.[/size]
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #661 on: February 06, 2013, 02:21:04 AM »
[size=78%]I just think Nintendo should concentrate on the Japanese market and start making heavy deals with key companies in the industry such as SquareEnix, Konami and others to start bringing their flagship titles to the Wii U. I think the Japanese industry is now getting a hold on HD development and financially they are not ready to make a leap in terms of developing new assets and working with next-next Gen systems. Wii U is their perfect platform to make beautiful games for cheap when compared to the coming systems.[/size]

Nintendo is probably already doing this.  It's going to be the 3DS vs Vita all over again for the Wii U and PS4 in Japan.  The PSP was getting lots of support even when the 3DS was first released, but after Sony made the Vita an expensive monster, Nintendo was able to convince most Japanese third parties to use their PSP engines and assets to continue making cheaper games for the 3DS.

If Sony does the same thing with the PS4 like they did with the Vita, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo manages to get a huge amount of Japanese third party support on the Wii U in the future.
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Offline alegoicoe

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #662 on: February 06, 2013, 03:00:00 AM »
[size=78%]I just think Nintendo should concentrate on the Japanese market and start making heavy deals with key companies in the industry such as SquareEnix, Konami and others to start bringing their flagship titles to the Wii U. I think the Japanese industry is now getting a hold on HD development and financially they are not ready to make a leap in terms of developing new assets and working with next-next Gen systems. Wii U is their perfect platform to make beautiful games for cheap when compared to the coming systems.[/size]

Nintendo is probably already doing this.  It's going to be the 3DS vs Vita all over again for the Wii U and PS4 in Japan.  The PSP was getting lots of support even when the 3DS was first released, but after Sony made the Vita an expensive monster, Nintendo was able to convince most Japanese third parties to use their PSP engines and assets to continue making cheaper games for the 3DS.

If Sony does the same thing with the PS4 like they did with the Vita, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo manages to get a huge amount of Japanese third party support on the Wii U in the future.


I think that would be the smartest way for Nintendo since clearly the North American market is focused on the next Gen systems and and western developers clearly have a biased against the WiiU, not all of course. Why fight the current here when Nintendo can easily with a couple of moves dominate the Japanese market like they are doing with 3ds.
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Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #663 on: February 06, 2013, 05:29:43 AM »
"western developers clearly have a biased against the WiiU, "

LOL, love the whole conpriacy theory complex.  It's funny about the double standard, when MS or Sony gets the shaft then nobody here calls foul but when it happens to nintendo it's all *biased* developers.

It's comes to the bottom line--sales.  Want more support, buy 3rd party games and get your friends to buy them as well. 
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As for the highest 3rd party WII U, it's right now Zombiu which is you count bundles is around 300-350K WW. 

Offline azeke

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #664 on: February 06, 2013, 06:04:29 AM »
LOL, love the whole conpriacy theory complex.

20.03.2012 (8 (eight) months before Wii U launch):
Quote from: Kojima
The way the player interacts with [Wii U} is very different than any other device out there. So if I were to make a game for the Wii U, it would have to be a unique game

26.01.2012 (10 (ten) months before Wii U launch):
Quote from: Tomb Raider dev
Given that weā€™ve been working on the game quite a while before Wii U was announced I think it would not be right to try and port it across. If we started building a game for the Wii U we would build it very differently and we would build it with unique functionality

15.06.2012 (5 (five) months before Wii U launch):
Quote from: Take Two, Bioshock and GTA publisher
"We haven't announced anything," says Zelnick on the possibility of moving the company's mature titles onto the Wii U. "I'm skeptical."
Don't mistake that skepticism for a pessimistic attitude about the next generation of consoles, though. If anything, Zelnick is eager to kick off the next line of game systems, because he sees it as a chance for Take-Two to continue to advance its position in the industry.
"For a company like ours, it's a great opportunity," he says. "[New console launches] separate the winners from the losers -- and we fully expect to be one of the winners."

25.11.2012 (a two weeks into Wii U launch, so no sales info available)
Quote from: Borderlands dev
We get asked if there is going to be a Wii U version of Borderlands, and the reason why thereā€™s not is because we couldnā€™t think of a natural, obvious, ā€˜OMG, I want that for what the Wii U brings to the tableā€™ feature


26.09.2012 (a month before Wii U launch)
Quote from: EA
A compilation, dubbed the Mass Effect Trilogy, will include all three ā€œaward-winningā€ Mass Effect games in one box. Itā€™ll be available on November 6th this year, for $60 on xbox/ps3/pc.

These are very, very real.

And all of them are obvious BS. Each more ridiculous than the other.

This has nothing to do with sales.

At all.

Because most of these retarded statements were made before Wii U launched. Decisions on Wii U support were not based on sales.

As i said already.

This is not conspiracy. It's very real.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 06:08:12 AM by azeke »
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #665 on: February 06, 2013, 09:11:43 AM »
...
It's funny about the double standard, when MS or Sony gets the shaft then nobody here calls foul
...
Can I have 3 realistic examples for each MS and Sony?  I can't think of one good one.  Obviously 1st parties don't count because they couldn't get those anyway.  I can think of an example where Publishers did not pick up a game because there couldn't be a PS3 version due to licensing. (Mechwarrior Online was going to be a Single player Mechwarrior game on PC and 360 due to licensing deal for Mechwarrior license use.)
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #666 on: February 06, 2013, 09:41:58 AM »
Most of the time when Sony or Microsoft gets left out there's a moneyhat involved. I doubt anyone's paying publishers not to support Nintendo.
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Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #667 on: February 06, 2013, 10:46:14 AM »
"Can I have 3 realistic examples for each MS and Sony?  I can't think of one good one.:"

*cough*Rayman Legends?*cough*
Just about the entire lineup on Vita?  RE Revelations being the latest. 
And there's tons of Japanese games that were only WII/PS3--Tales of Graces for one.
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Did anyone here call foul?  No, because why should Capcom bother with Vita ports when they don't sell? Or support a sytem like the 360 in the East where is doesn't have an fanbase? 
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« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 11:06:26 AM by Ymeegod »

Offline Ceric

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #668 on: February 06, 2013, 11:17:09 AM »
"Can I have 3 realistic examples for each MS and Sony?  I can't think of one good one.:"

*cough*Rayman Legends?*cough*
Just about the entire lineup on Vita?  RE Revelations being the latest. 
And there's tons of Japanese games that were only WII/PS3--Tales of Graces for one.
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Did anyone here call foul?  No, because why should Capcom bother with Vita ports when they don't sell? Or support a sytem like the 360 in the East where is doesn't have an fanbase? 
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Raymen Legends I will give you as 1 solid example but, I also remember their being a general sentiment that it was awesome it was a shame the other platform weren't getting it for non-Wii U owners.

I will not give you Vita games.  Why you may ask?

1. They did not also come to a Nintendo System.
2. Handheld.

If you listen to NFR its mentioned with the Vita from Broodwars many times that it is a shame a lot of people won't be able to experience those games.

So Tales of Graces gets to go in the 360 bucket but, oh wait, thats PS3 exclusive outside of Japan and we don't really have any Japanese posters.
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Offline azeke

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #669 on: February 06, 2013, 11:25:40 AM »
Rayman Legends is an obvious moneyhat.

How third party exclusives now suddenly count as "snubs" to other consoles?

Developer was specifically paid off to not to port to other systems by platform holder to entice gamer to buy that platform.

Unless Ymeegod implies someone is paying to third-parties to avoid Nintendo's platforms, and then it would be clear it's not me with the conspiracy theories around here.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 11:27:51 AM by azeke »
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #670 on: February 06, 2013, 12:57:25 PM »
I am sure that there are third parties that did not like working with Nintendo in the past and do not want to support them as a result.  I'm sure there are others that don't like Nintendo for petty reasons.  But for ALL of them to have that sort of attitude just seems too unlikely.  Are they all in secret collusion against Nintendo?  Why would they do that and why wouldn't a few of them buck the trend to get an advantage on the others since they all are competing with each other?

They couldn't do the multiplatform development they wanted to do on the Wii so they needed a seperate "Wii team" to deal with it.  Their best talent and best projects went to the multiplatform games, leaving the b-team to make some lame shovelware for the Wii.  A lot of those Wii spinoffs would probably never have been made at all if the Wii could have been included with the other systems.  For example I doubt Namco wanted to make a Soul Calibur spinoff.  They just couldn't port Soul Calibur IV and wanted SOME sort of Soul Calibur product on the Wii so they half-assed some junk spinoff.  They felt they had to have some product on the Wii but their plans didn't really call for them to make TWO games, with one specifically for the Wii.  So they did a token effort or NOTHING at all.  If Third Party X was planning on making three games, Nintendo effectively told them to make six or not support their system at all.

It might be as simple as third parties just not trusting the Wii U to be successful with anything beyond the casual audience and they don't feel like giving it a proper effort.  "Oh we didn't make any money on the Wii so there is no reason to put much effort in the Wii U if it's going to be the same thing over again."

Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #671 on: February 06, 2013, 01:12:47 PM »
I'm talking about the whole Rayman series--there were like 4-5 WII games that the Xbox360/PS3 didn't get.  There wasn't an excluisve contract between Ubisoft and Nintendo, it was because the game didn't have any appeal to the xbox/ps3 crowd according to sale data.

Same with Sonic games.  They sold better on one platform then the others so games like Sonic Colors became exclusive not because there's some "magic" deal but because they publisher didn't bother to port the game over to platforms that it couldn't sell on.

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Offline alegoicoe

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #672 on: February 06, 2013, 02:21:39 PM »
^The biggest supporters of 3ds software have been by far Japanese, western developers are not taking the system too seriously perse.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #673 on: February 06, 2013, 02:26:15 PM »
^The biggest supporters of 3ds software have been by far Japanese, western developers are not taking the system too seriously perse.

Western devs never really take handhelds too seriously though.  Quick, name some classic GB, GBC, GBA, DS or 3DS titles that are NOT Japanese.  I can think of that DS GTA game no one bought and jack **** else.

Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)
« Reply #674 on: February 06, 2013, 02:27:21 PM »
Weren't there reports of Nintendo sending free dev kits to some companies and they sent them back unopened?