Author Topic: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X  (Read 53381 times)

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Offline Kairon

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Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« on: March 26, 2020, 12:06:48 PM »
I'll be the first to admit that I'm almost exclusively a Nintendo only gamer, but one of the surprising benefits of that is I don't directly have a dog in the fight between Sony and Microsoft. Those megacorps can duke it out in the high-performance-high-price-high-drama console war field of ~12 teraflops, and I can pull up a seat and pull out my switch to watch the slugfest.

So what's everyone's take on the upcoming next-gen consoles? With baseline specs revealed for both, the internet fanboy flame wars are just getting started, but it seems to me like Sony has slightly less paper specs, might have some custom silicon tricks they'll argue make their power more than the specs.

Thinking about it, I don't recall Sony ever finding itself in that position marketing-wise before. They've technically had lower spec systems before but the market perception at the time s didn't really reflect that.

As for software, we haven't seen any. But Microsoft has bulked up their 1st party studios SO much these past years that I'm almost scared to find out everything they've been saving up for this, it'll be like an asteroid impacting the earth and they've been preparing for this for a LOOOONG time. Sony, on the other hand, seems to have strong third-party ties, a proven and reliable first-party record, and a little more consumer goodwill since they've actually been delivering the past couple of years instead of just promising things.

Of course, the elephant in the room could be price and business model. Is it possible that Sony is targeting a lower price point than MS? That might be an advantage in the early days. But could MS really push GamePass and/or XCloud so much that consumers are willing to buy that hardware instead based on a long-term calculation on saving money on software via a subscription?

Gonna be interesting to see how it plays out. Both these systems are so utterly powerful that I'm guessing they'll easily differentiate themselves from the current Gen (unlike the PS4 Pro and One X, which remain firmly in this gen). That'd be interesting to see how fast it saps away developer support for the Switch. It's possible that the Switch could still remain a great home for devs who still have Mobile as a target, and a great home for indies who generally need to hit all platforms including mobile and/or mainstream PCs. But I've been REALLY enjoying the legacy ports of current/last gen titles, like the recently announced 2K BioShock, Borderlands, and X-Com 2 collections. I'd hate to see those sorts of things dry up quickly.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2020, 12:54:37 PM »
I inadvertently sat out this current generation for the most part and previously committed to buying a PlayStation 5 at launch for backward compatibility as I like Sony’s first party lineup more. However, I recently tripped upward into a PlayStation 4 Pro so I’m going to kick the can down the road until the middle of next generation, if I even end up buying anything. I was mostly fine with Switch.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2020, 01:36:47 PM »
MLB The Show going multiplatform drastically changes the calculus for me in terms of when I'd want to buy and which one it would be. That's one of my most played games every year and pretty much the only reason I've used my PS4 in years, but if I can get it on Switch or Xbox I have no real reason to buy a PS5. I'd be more likely to get an Xbox SeX for the few non-Nintendo things I care about plus GamePass.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2020, 02:49:13 PM »
I don't have any systems from the current generation.  The last time that occurred was the 8 bit NES era generation and I certainly would have been in on that if I could convince my parents to buy me an NES.  So I don't really have any interest in the next generation which would sound bizarre if you told me that 15 years ago.  I've actually kind of lost track of the time with this generation in that it still feels like it's brand new.

I think there are a couple factors here.  First of all I'm older so the excitement of keeping completely up-to-date with videogames is not as strong.  With the 3DS I switched from someone that felt like he needed to be familiar with everything to just prioritizing certain types of games that I know I like.  I've gone from that age where you're craving innovation to the one where you crave comfort and familiarity.

But another factor is simply that the noticeable improvements of each generation has become subtle.  In the old days there was a huge jump just in the visuals alone with each generation.  Seeing the Dreamcast for the first time blew my mind.  Seeing the Xbox 360 for the first time was like "Uh?  Is there something different here?"  Now Xbox 360 games did evolve where the improvement between that and the original Xbox became obvious but it wasn't immediately obvious like the first time I saw commercials for Altered Beast and Bonk's Adventure.

For new generations now it's like the improvements are frame rate, VR support, 4K.  I don't care about VR, don't own a 4K TV and have no intention of buying one and my tolerance of frame rate dips is pretty high as long as things are playable.  There just isn't much of a selling point here for me.

Games I want to play will push me towards a new console purchase.  I played Breath of the Wild on the Wii U and I still have enough games on older platforms that I want to play.  Breath of the Wild 2 will probably entice me but that's going to be for a Switch, not a PS5.

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2020, 06:29:18 PM »
I've been annoyed for years at how complacent Sony's become since the PS4 became one of the best-selling entertainment devices, but the way they've handled the PS5 has me livid at how utterly incompetent they've become. They spent years completely radio silent on the subject of PS5, letting their 1st party PS4 lineup slowly trickle away. Then, when they finally release SOMETHING on the PS5, it's a mind-numbingly boring Mark Cerney tech presentation obviously meant for the cancelled GDC.

Then they announced that PS5 would only be kinda, sorta backwards compatible. The PS5, you see, is just so powerful that PS4 games aren't guaranteed to work properly on it. They'd only tested the Top 100 PS4 games (whatever those are), you see. Then it became "oh, the vast MAJORITY of your PS4 games will work on PS5", again without stating what games DID or DIDN'T work, probably because they want to sell "remastered" versions of PS4 games on PS5.

Let's set aside how incredibly insulting it is to your 100 million+ PS4 audience that you designed the successor system without ensuring that PS4 games would work in it. How am I, as a PS4 owner with, literally, over 200 PS4 games both digital and physical...supposed to sell off my PS4 in good conscience to be able to AFFORD to buy a PS5 when I don't KNOW if my library will WORK on the thing? And considering that speculation has this thing very possibly at 599 US Dollars again, THAT's a big concern. If I can't make a dent in that price, there's no way I can afford a PS5 until they Slim it down in a few years.

Also, we are 7-8 months away from a hypothetical PS5 launch, and we still know NOTHING about what games will be on it. Even Microsoft's Xbox Ranger Operator Series X has had a few games shown off already in the Hellblade sequel & (I think) the next Gears game. And we already have confirmation that Cyberpunk's going to have a free upgrade to the NextBox version.

I don't think either console is really going to launch this year. I think the tanking economy and lack of manufacturing capacity is going to delay them in 2021. However, Microsoft has done leaps and bounds better at selling the Nextbox than Sony has the PS5, and I suspect that's not going to change despite Sony having objectively, inarguably the better 1st party support.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 06:31:49 PM by broodwars »
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2020, 06:39:05 PM »
At least the first time around Sony managed to get through two incredibly successful consoles before being done in by their arrogance. They couldn't even get through an entire generation with the PS4 before going back to their "You'll get a second job to pay for it" ways.
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2020, 02:07:25 AM »
What makes it even funnier is a huge reason the PS4 managed to be as successful as it was it because Microsoft and Nintendo completely dropped the ball in 2013.  Sony got to win by default, by not releasing an overpriced system with features nobody wanted like the other two did.

In comparison you now have Nintendo with a system that's only halfway through it's life and hotter then ever, with Microsoft making a lot of inroads to make sure the Xbox One launch disaster wont happen again.  The 2 alternatives are in a much stronger position this time, and yet Sony thinks they're unbeatable just because of how successful the PS4 was.  You'd think after taking a 5 billion loss on the PS3 and the huge drop from PSP to Vita, they should know just how loyal the average consumer truly is.

Of course the fact we haven't seen any games makes me wonder just how ready the next gen systems are.  Even Microsoft talking about how during the first 2 years most games will still have an Xbox One version makes me think most developers aren't ready to make the jump even.  I mean, budgets are still ballooning out of control and the major titles are taking longer then ever to create, it does make you wonder if the industry can even afford to really jump into a new generation.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2020, 03:28:28 PM »
What makes it even funnier is a huge reason the PS4 managed to be as successful as it was it because Microsoft and Nintendo completely dropped the ball in 2013.  Sony got to win by default, by not releasing an overpriced system with features nobody wanted like the other two did.

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2020, 05:05:58 PM »
What makes it even funnier is a huge reason the PS4 managed to be as successful as it was it because Microsoft and Nintendo completely dropped the ball in 2013.  Sony got to win by default, by not releasing an overpriced system with features nobody wanted like the other two did.

If you win by fluke you don't learn any lessons.

I wouldn't call the PS4 a "fluke", though. There were some very wise decisions made around the PS4's deisgn & its launch, and Sony handled the early years of the PS4 just fine. You can't argue that Sony's 1st party lineup on the PS4 isn't very strong (albeit, IMO, less interesting than the PS3's 1st party lineup).

However, almost all the people who made the PS4 what it was have left the company over the last 2-3 years, and I have no confidence that the people in charge now have any idea what made the PS4 the success that it was.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2020, 08:32:15 PM »
I might as well get my pricing guesses in before Sony and MS get done playing whatever game of announcement chicken they're playing and relieve the suspense around the topic.

I've seen people guess everything from $300 to $600 but just thinking about the aggressive hardware in the upcoming systems makes me believe that unless MS and Sony are willing to sell at a large loss (MS might be more willing to than Sony), then we're approaching E3 2006 five-hundred-ninety-nine-US-dollars days again. Based on what little we know, I also get the strange feeling that Sony may strangely enough have higher costs despite being slightly weaker on paper in several aspects. Then of course there's MS playing the long game and just wanting people to subscribe to GamePass at any cost...

Right now my thinking is:
PS5 - $549
Xbox SX - $549
PS5 Digital Edition - $499
Xbox SS (Lockhart) - $399

If the prices turn out this way, MS will probably weaponize their GamePass value proposition AND their Xbox Series S / Lockhart price point to attack Sony. I could see them giving away 3-12 months of GamePass to get people onto the service and claim that without buying a game you'd have hundreds to play instantly. This'd put them in a hugely powerful position.

To combat this, Sony would probably try to hype up exclusive PS5 titles that you wouldn't find on Xbox, and try to use marketing to gain the next-gen hardware perception crown by emphasizing how much faster its SSD is... possibly by putting Rachet and Clank front and center. I'm not convinced this would be 100% successful honestly, Nintendo's tried the same thing before, so Sony would really need to do something REALLY extraordinary to be able to gain attention via exclusive software. Sony could also start eating large hardware losses up front and bring their PS5 SKUs in range of the Xbox Series S, but that sort of thing sounds real scary on their pocket book.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 08:42:16 PM by Kairon »
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2020, 01:13:10 AM »
I'm considering getting an Xbox One X when it goes on clearance so I can say that I own the world's most powerful video games console so I can enjoy the handful of Xbox exclusives that aren't coming to PC like the stuff in Rare Replay and I can get a decent 4K Blu-ray Player out of the deal.

As for actual next gen, I can't say I'm too interested.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2020, 01:48:09 AM »
For me it comes down to "what type of games do I like to play" and I prefer Sony's games. With ps4 I really wanted to play the Uncharted series. I have come across some other games. I liked Until Dawn a lot. Though, the developer went multi-platform. Most of the games I like are multi-platform. There is just a slight edge for Sony as far as my tastes go.

Also Sony embracing fast load times is a major 180. PSX load times were so fucking slow. That was the number one reason I preferred n64. I'd go over to my friends house and we'd play his psx games and sometimes we would just sit there waiting.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2020, 11:48:59 AM »
Discussing the prices made me think of something regarding the future of consoles.  The traditional model is to somewhat take a bath on the console and make it up with game sales.  This trickles down to the stores as well as they have a smaller profit margin on the system but they're willing to put up with that so that you return to the store to buy games.  But as digital purchases become more common what incentive is there for the stores?  So Wal-mart is going to sell you a console they make little profit off of and then you buy all your games from the eshop and never set foot in the electronics section of the store again?  And the inevitable future is digital-only consoles, in which case the only items the stores will sell will be the systems and controllers.  In that world why would any store bother to sell those items unless they could get a good mark up for them?  So what's the future for selling the hardware?  Does the MSRP end up with a large profit margin or do the manufacturers just sell the systems from their web site directly?

Offline Adrock

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2020, 03:08:58 PM »
But as digital purchases become more common what incentive is there for the stores?  So Wal-mart is going to sell you a console they make little profit off of and then you buy all your games from the eshop and never set foot in the electronics section of the store again?  And the inevitable future is digital-only consoles, in which case the only items the stores will sell will be the systems and controllers.  In that world why would any store bother to sell those items unless they could get a good mark up for them?  So what's the future for selling the hardware?  Does the MSRP end up with a large profit margin or do the manufacturers just sell the systems from their web site directly?
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In all seriousness, brick and mortar retailers can use the consoles to get people in the door. They’ll still sell peripherals and pre-paid cards (which I doubt they make much, if any, profit). As long as consumers are in the store, they may as well pick up a few things. I’ve definitely gone to Target for toothbrushes, and left with $100 worth of not-toothbrushes. Same principle applies. It’ll definitely be an adjustment, but I think there’s still some value in stores carrying consoles as we march to a digital future.

Offline Kairon

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2020, 03:36:47 PM »
But as digital purchases become more common what incentive is there for the stores?  So Wal-mart is going to sell you a console they make little profit off of and then you buy all your games from the eshop and never set foot in the electronics section of the store again?  And the inevitable future is digital-only consoles, in which case the only items the stores will sell will be the systems and controllers.  In that world why would any store bother to sell those items unless they could get a good mark up for them?  So what's the future for selling the hardware?  Does the MSRP end up with a large profit margin or do the manufacturers just sell the systems from their web site directly?
You can’t download Doritos and Mountain Dew. /kneeslap

In all seriousness, brick and mortar retailers can use the consoles to get people in the door. They’ll still sell peripherals and pre-paid cards (which I doubt they make much, if any, profit). As long as consumers are in the store, they may as well pick up a few things. I’ve definitely gone to Target for toothbrushes, and left with $100 worth of not-toothbrushes. Same principle applies. It’ll definitely be an adjustment, but I think there’s still some value in stores carrying consoles as we march to a digital future.

Yeah, I don't think those relationships will disappear, but they will be more and more periphery for the retailers. Obviously this sort of dynamic is disastrous to specialty retailers who focus on gaming and therefore need to get profits from game purchases, but if you think about retailers like Target they can keep going as they are today and just deprioritize and keep shrinking the gaming areas.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2020, 02:29:39 PM »
With the news that the Xbox Series S will be an all-digital version with a 512GB SSD and not capable of 4K gaming BUT priced at $299, I think that Microsoft is getting SUPER aggressive. I had thought before that they'd hit a higher price due to costs, but maybe costs aren't as high as I thought, or MS ws able to pull some deals, or they're just simply more aggressive than I gave them credit for. I guess I was of the mindset that they'd let their Gamepass value proposition do all of the heavy lifting for them and just rest on their laurels where console hardware strategy was concerned, but this is sort of a huge move for them.

The ball's in Sony's court now. Their PS5 Digital Edition still boasts the fulls 10-12 TF of marketing power that their full console does, so the question is whether that's a problem because it means they can't hit as low a price point as MS, or whether that means that people would be willing to pay $100 more for the "real thing." (I'm now imagining a $399 PS5 Discless, and $499 flagship console versions from both platforms.)

I guess the ball's in Nintendo's court too now actually. A $299 Xbox Series S is right at the Switch console price point, so the comparisons are inevitable and despite their being different propositions entirely, it may still start to put pressure on Nintendo to come down in price. (Well, SOMETHING has gotta get Nintendo to drop their price, right?)
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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2020, 03:13:09 PM »
With the news that the Xbox Series S will be an all-digital version with a 512GB SSD and not capable of 4K gaming BUT priced at $299, I think that Microsoft is getting SUPER aggressive. I had thought before that they'd hit a higher price due to costs, but maybe costs aren't as high as I thought, or MS ws able to pull some deals, or they're just simply more aggressive than I gave them credit for. I guess I was of the mindset that they'd let their Gamepass value proposition do all of the heavy lifting for them and just rest on their laurels where console hardware strategy was concerned, but this is sort of a huge move for them.

The ball's in Sony's court now. Their PS5 Digital Edition still boasts the fulls 10-12 TF of marketing power that their full console does, so the question is whether that's a problem because it means they can't hit as low a price point as MS, or whether that means that people would be willing to pay $100 more for the "real thing." (I'm now imagining a $399 PS5 Discless, and $499 flagship console versions from both platforms.)

I guess the ball's in Nintendo's court too now actually. A $299 Xbox Series S is right at the Switch console price point, so the comparisons are inevitable and despite their being different propositions entirely, it may still start to put pressure on Nintendo to come down in price. (Well, SOMETHING has gotta get Nintendo to drop their price, right?)

To me that, 512 GB SSD is a non-starter right there. My PS4 Pro has a 1 TB HDD, and I'm having to clear stuff out of it all the time because modern games have ridiculous install sizes of 60-200 GB. Microsoft doesn't have a good track record of having inexpensive alternative storage options, and their first party lineup is traditionally wretched.

I'm not hot on either of these new systems, but they need to provide 1 TB of storage out of the gate at the very least, but game sizes are not going to go down.

I'm also still not convinced that either of these consoles are going to "actually" launch in 2020. They're letting a handful of suckers willing to enter online lotteries have a chance to Beta-test the things in November, but these consoles aren't seriously releasing until 2021.
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2020, 03:29:55 PM »
I guess the ball's in Nintendo's court too now actually. A $299 Xbox Series S is right at the Switch console price point, so the comparisons are inevitable and despite their being different propositions entirely, it may still start to put pressure on Nintendo to come down in price. (Well, SOMETHING has gotta get Nintendo to drop their price, right?)

The Switch is still a hybrid system with portability as a major selling point.  Plus the top selling games people are buying the Switch for are games like Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Pokemon, Zelda.  Microsoft isn't doing anything to appeal to the audience of these games so it's not like Nintendo has to worry on that side either.
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Offline Mr. Bungle

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2021, 04:39:04 PM »
Nobody has posted here since gen nine officially started.
Has anyone picked one up?
Are you planning to at a later date?
I am planning to get a PS5 when the Horizon Zero Dawn sequel comes out.

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2021, 10:59:48 PM »
Nobody has posted here since gen nine officially started.
Has anyone picked one up?
Are you planning to at a later date?
I am planning to get a PS5 when the Horizon Zero Dawn sequel comes out.

Funny you should ask...

I've been trying to hunt one down for the better part of the last 2 months, once they announced a release date for Resident Evil 8/Village (and we finally got a release date for Ratchet). I was perfectly happy playing backlogged PS4 stuff, but I at least wanted one by May so I had to start aggressively looking for it early. After many...many...MANY failed battles against the legions of Skynet, I finally managed to snag one last night in the batch GameStop put online. Ended up with a bundle I really didn't want (Console + extra controller + Miles Morales Ultimate + $20 GameStop Gift Card for $660), but beggars can't be choosers when companies are just letting scalpers run wild, I guess.

Not expecting it to arrive for a week or 2 (possibly later), though. I do own a copy of the PS5 version of The Pathless, though, that I'm looking forward to playing. Picked it up a month ago when it was on sale for half off.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2021, 11:58:24 PM »
I got a Series X about a month ago and I've enjoyed it a lot. A lot of what I've played is older stuff, but the higher specs and much quicker load times make those a really improved experience on the new hardware too. Coming from an original model Xbox One, the entire interface feels so much better.
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Offline Mr. Bungle

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2021, 12:48:38 PM »
$20 GameStop Gift Card
That's worth what, like $10  ;)

Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2021, 11:08:07 PM »
I don't know. I don't get why anyone feels the need for getting a PS5 at this point? It's just the PS4 but it's got a new hat! The system seems to be selling mainly on the basis that it is new and hard to find because of scalpers. (Although after so many accusations of Nintendo supposedly releasing low stock of consoles and games or other items on purpose to artificially generate hype or not being smart enough to meet the demand they have, where are the accusations of Sony doing this with the PS5?) Thanks to being able to coast on the success of the PS4, the PS5 has some momentum yet Sony seems to be doing what they can to kill it off. Shutting down their Japan Studio while a bunch of big name talent had already been walking away from it earlier. Maybe some games are selling in the west but in Japan the PS5 games are flopping in game sales.

And from this latest State of Play, are there actually people hyped up to play this stuff? Ports of PS4 games. Crash 4 isn't even a year old. Like I get in the past, there were times where a game might have two versions coming out. Epic Mickey 2 is released on the Wii and the Wii U. But those games were released at the same time so that Wii sales didn't eat into potential Wii U sales. Plus, there was a visible difference at least in the visuals between Wii and Wii U. Twilight Princess on Wii and GC is another example. In that case, the GC version was held back a little bit while the Wii version released first to give it more of a boost and reason to buy the Wii. How is Crash 4 going to motivate PS4 users to upgrade or expect big sales now? Square's decided that all PS users want is FF7 stuff so they are going to milk all they can out of that entry it seems. Make the PS5 the FF7 machine. Knockout City didn't really impress me in its Switch trailer and seeing it here on PS5 didn't change my quick opinion of it. I just don't get it.

As far as I'm concerned, the PS5 / XBOX (terrible designations) consoles seem like the most pointless console generation ever. With development cycles on the big name titles from Rockstar or Naughty Dog taking years to complete, it's going to be a long time before any major titles come out from them unless so why buy a system now? There's a reason Nintendo has suddenly taken over Japan and, with Sony and Microsoft seemingly responding to the Switch's success but just releasing home consoles that have more power, it seems like Sony and Microsoft have made the wrong move in responding to that success. Portability seems to be a big thing for so many people gaming and ignoring that just leaves things wide open for Nintendo to keep strengthening their position. The NA first, Europe second, Japan last approach from Sony right now just seems like a pretty poor business decision. Bold strategy Cotton.

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2021, 02:09:47 AM »
I don't know. I don't get why anyone feels the need for getting a PS5 at this point? It's just the PS4 but it's got a new hat! The system seems to be selling mainly on the basis that it is new and hard to find because of scalpers. (Although after so many accusations of Nintendo supposedly releasing low stock of consoles and games or other items on purpose to artificially generate hype or not being smart enough to meet the demand they have, where are the accusations of Sony doing this with the PS5?)

You know...I originally made similar accusations at Sony in the months following the PS5's launch, because it seemed to me awfully damn convenient just how consistent the trickle of PS5s has been post-launch. However, when the ongoing national chip shortage is so bad that even the President of the United States just signed an Executive Order to investigate and shore up the problem for the sake of national security ( https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/24/biden-signs-executive-order-to-address-chip-shortage-through-a-supply-chain-review.html )...no, this isn't Sony creating artificial scarcity, at least in North American and Europe. Now, Sony has made it pretty obvious that they're intentionally diverting stock away from Japan so they can shore up Europe and NA, so the shortage in Japan is somewhat artificial. That said, if you're a Japanese gamer, why would you buy a PS5 at this point when Sony's spent the last 2 years telling your country to **** off?

Quote
And from this latest State of Play, are there actually people hyped up to play this stuff? Ports of PS4 games. Crash 4 isn't even a year old. Like I get in the past, there were times where a game might have two versions coming out. Epic Mickey 2 is released on the Wii and the Wii U. But those games were released at the same time so that Wii sales didn't eat into potential Wii U sales. Plus, there was a visible difference at least in the visuals between Wii and Wii U. Twilight Princess on Wii and GC is another example. In that case, the GC version was held back a little bit while the Wii version released first to give it more of a boost and reason to buy the Wii. How is Crash 4 going to motivate PS4 users to upgrade or expect big sales now? Square's decided that all PS users want is FF7 stuff so they are going to milk all they can out of that entry it seems. Make the PS5 the FF7 machine. Knockout City didn't really impress me in its Switch trailer and seeing it here on PS5 didn't change my quick opinion of it. I just don't get it.

Well, to each their own but there was some stuff in today's State of Play that I'm interested in playing, like Kena: Bridge of Spirits and Solar Ash. I'm iffy on Returnal and Deathloop, but they are looking increasingly appealing every time Sony's shown them. I've already mentioned that Ratchet and RE Village are major games for me, the former of which is a PS5-exclusive (as is the Demon's Souls remake I've been wanting to play).  The problem with the PS5 is its severe scarcity right now means that devs pretty much HAVE to make PS4 versions since no one can BUY the new consoles without insane effort and a lot of luck.

That said, the big "get" of this new generation isn't really technical flourish, but speed. I agree that Sony spent WAY too much time on Crash 4 in the latest State of Play, but the one thing about that game that's a MAJOR issue on PS4 is the load times (and, to be frank, it's also a major issue in FF7 remake on PS4). That is a hard game that requires frequent restarts, especially if you're trying to fully complete it, and yet levels take an absolutely ridiculous amount of time to load on PS4. Getting games to load on PS5 on par with a cartridge game (and, for now, getting them to run at a 60FPS or higher framerate) is a major "get", so much that I don't understand why Sony doesn't focus on it more instead of the 4K stuff the overwhelming majority of players will never see due to not having the proper display.

I fully agree that Sony pretty much abandoning Japan this generation is reckless and stupid, and I hope it hurts them because I like variety in my gaming experiences. I enjoy the Sony Uni-game, but it's not the ONLY kind of game I play.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 02:35:24 AM by broodwars »
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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2021, 05:14:31 PM »
Don’t ever buy a console at launch**


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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2021, 05:37:06 PM »
I did the 3DS launch so I feel like I have the whole console launch game covered.

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2021, 12:05:27 AM »
(Although after so many accusations of Nintendo supposedly releasing low stock of consoles and games or other items on purpose to artificially generate hype or not being smart enough to meet the demand they have, where are the accusations of Sony doing this with the PS5?)
Those accusations are tinfoil hat nonsense. Anyone who thinks about this for a minute can put that to rest. Production lines are contracted months in advance. Companies pay for what they anticipate they can sell. Shipping is contracted in advance as well. Even if a company manufactured a whole ton of an item, they would have to pay more to reroute stock to a different warehouse (space they also have to pay for) then pay again to ship it from that warehouse. Artificially generate hype? No one benefits from that, most of all the hardware manufacturer. Any profits from additional sales gained from extra buzz would be negated and then some by futzing around with the supply chain.

Quote
As far as I'm concerned, the PS5 / XBOX (terrible designations) consoles seem like the most pointless console generation ever. With development cycles on the big name titles from Rockstar or Naughty Dog taking years to complete, it's going to be a long time before any major titles come out from them unless so why buy a system now?
From an end user's perspective, sure. AAA games released last year on eighth generation consoles still looked and played well. New hardware doesn't mean good games can't still be released on previous generation hardware. However, it does mean developers get to work with newer techniques, programs, middleware etc. etc. that help in the creation of games. Unreal Engine 5 is slated to be released at the end of the year. My guess is PS4/Xbox One will not be natively supported, and in 2021, no one is going to port it. Grand Theft Auto VI may be see the light of day for a couple more years. It sure will be helpful to have a solid user base for when it finally does.

That said, I'm pretty satisfied with the cycle I'm on. I'll buy Nintendo at launch because the company makes most of my must-buy games, and I don't really get the benefit of them dropping in price significantly. I can definitely wait a few years to jump in the PS5 pool. I'm currently reaping the benefits of an egregious amount of sub-$20 games on PS4.

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2021, 01:35:54 PM »
Quote
author=Mr. Bungle link=topic=64947.msg974158#msg974158 date=1614202744
I am planning to get a PS5 when the Horizon Zero Dawn sequel comes out.

That's sort of my plan at the moment as well. Seems like Fall 2021 will be its release date. Sony's big holiday game.

The chip shortage seems like it will help Nintendo as far as the Switch staying dominant and slowing down the introduction of next-gen systems.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2021, 01:38:47 PM by MASB »

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2021, 02:23:25 PM »
My PS5 arrived today, which is amusing considering GameStop still doesn't think they've even shipped it on their website. To my irritation, the package had a mandatory signature requirement that FedEx...completely ignored as they appear to have practically chucked the box at my door and ran. Thankfully, everything was perfectly fine.

The PS5 setup process is...an experience, one my home internet is currently fighting with every fiber of its electronic being. It took me a while to get setup, and I'm having a lot of lag and slowdown issues trying to navigate the UI and the PS Store. Looks like this is going to take a while before I get everything setup and downloaded. Currently having issues trying to get my PS4 saves downloaded.

For the life of me, I'll never understand why consoles NEVER launch with folder support in the UI. Console devs have to learn this lesson EVERY generation, without fail. Also, the PS5 power cable appears to be a whole 3 feet long. Wow.
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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2021, 06:58:46 PM »
Congrats on dodging the reseller bots!  ;) Hope those issues will sort themselves out though, I get the impression these new boxes have some rocky onboarding right now. What are you looking to play on it? Just PS4 games for now?

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2021, 07:15:11 PM »
Congrats on dodging the reseller bots!  ;) Hope those issues will sort themselves out though, I get the impression these new boxes have some rocky onboarding right now. What are you looking to play on it? Just PS4 games for now?

Turns out a lot of the issues I was having during the initial setup were due to Spectrum having a large scale outage today for, like, 5 hours. I finally have all my PS4 data downloaded & a fair number of games installed, so I'm playing Astro's Playroom right now. Just finished the RE Village demo, too.

Astro's Playroom is delightful, but kind of sad, too...seeing all those references to games Sony doesn't think sell anymore, made by a studio that's now closing. I'm glad at least the team that makes the Astro Bot games isn't being shuttered.







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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2021, 08:53:53 PM »
I played through all of ASTRO's Playroom in one sitting, 100% completing it. That is a delightful game, and it kind of made me a believer in the "haptic feedback" of the DualSense, which is so much more precise & representative than something like the Switch's 3D Rumble. Highly recommended if you get a PS5, so much so that I'm surprised Sony didn't charge for it beyond the console purchase.

I've put a fair amount of time into Bugsnax, too. That is pretty silly & relaxing game as you run around environments researching & capturing animals made of food. Sony made a wise choice money-hatting that game as a PS+ game at launch.

Going to be getting rid of my PS4 Pro tomorrow & possibly pick up some heavier hitters (like Demon's Souls & Sackboy).
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 09:00:14 PM by broodwars »
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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2021, 08:14:27 PM »
I can see that the second pic is an homage to ICO, but what about the other three?

"Highly recommended if you get a PS5, so much so that I'm surprised Sony didn't charge for it beyond the console purchase."

Do you mean you're surprised the console doesn't cost even more or that the controllers don't cost more?

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2021, 08:35:47 PM »
I can see that the second pic is an homage to ICO, but what about the other three?

"Highly recommended if you get a PS5, so much so that I'm surprised Sony didn't charge for it beyond the console purchase."

Do you mean you're surprised the console doesn't cost even more or that the controllers don't cost more?

The first pic is Ape Escape; the 2nd Ico; the 3rd Death Stranding; and the 4th Heavy Rain (the bot is a corpse with an Origami bird on its chest).

As for that quote, that was originally referring to ASTRO's Playroom. It's pretty content-packed for a pack-in demo, so I'm kind of surprised that Sony didn't charge extra for it.

Traded in my PS4 Pro today, and made out pretty well in the end IMO. I was expecting $175 per the website, but between various promotions ended up with $250 in credit. Used it to pick up Sackboy; Demon's Souls; the Nioh Collection; and put an order in on DMC 5. After all that, I still have a fair amount of trade credit left, plus reward certificates & gift cards for a later game. Not bad.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 08:38:31 PM by broodwars »
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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2021, 04:20:34 PM »
Well, I've had my PS5 for a month now, so I thought I'd just do a check-in on the overall experience, leaving the games discussion for another topic:

Honestly, I like the PS5, but the experience is rough and a lot of it just feels slapped together right now.

A month of heavy play after getting it, I've still barely heard the fans going in that thing aside from initial startup. Aside from a few crashes playing Demon's Souls & Plants vs. Zombies: Battle for Neighborville, it's also been a fairly stable console. The main UI is a fucking nightmare of menus, hidden menus that only appear when you press the PlayStation button on your controller, and menus within menus. The main timeline can also only hold 7-8 games on it before dropping into your library. PS4 demos aren't compatible with the PS5 for no apparent reason. There's no folder support, because of course there isn't. The games library has a section for PS3 games, something that completely baffles me because I don't think even PS3 PS Now games would slot in there.

I don't get it. Why do we have to re-invent the wheel every generation when it comes to the UI? The PS4's UI wasn't perfect, but it was fast and functional.

I've also had issues playing BluRay discs on this thing. The PS5 seems to take a while to recognize it even has a non-game disc when you insert it. The player itself is very clunky and unresponsive compared to its PS4 predecessor and my PS4 media remotes seem to deactivate a lot quicker than they did on PS5. I haven't found a menu yet where I can adjust that. I played an anime disc & both Pacific Rim movies on this thing, and 2 out of 3 times now the disc's gotten stuck in the drive and I've had to put my PS5 into safe mode to get the discs to pop out. I even had to (lightly) smack the side of the PS5 once to get a disc to pop out like this was a 70s sitcom. I don't think the disc drive likes being vertical, but the sheer size of the PS5 gives me no choice. This is also the way that Sony advertises the PS5, so it's not like I setup my PS5 wrong.

You can record up to an hour now of in-game footage, which is quite nice, but the upload manager has issues. For instance, Twitter has a limit of 2 minutes and 20 seconds for all uploaded video. Nowhere in the PS5 video editor app does it tell you this. It will just refuse to allow you to upload a video until you have a 2 minute 19 second clip. This is annoying if you aren't innately familiar with this upload rule from doing it on the PS4 (which DID tell you the limit). The upload screen itself is also one of those hidden menus, but it's especially hidden because it's only available if the PS5 is actively uploading something and you have that hidden Playstation Button menu open.

The PS5 games I've played on the system have been good so far, but very few in number (and no, I haven't played Miles yet. Haven't been in the mood for that sort of game). The in-game load times are very fast, though I'll argue they aren't *quite* as fast as advertised (i.e. they're 4-5 seconds, not "instantaneous"). In a rare instance of foresight, the PS5 has a system-level menu where you can set things like subtitles and Look Inversion so all games take their default settings from that menu. It's a feature the 360 had as well, but it's nice to finally see such a thing on PlayStation.

The Dualsense is a neat controller when games actually bother to take advantage of the Haptic Feedback. The Haptic Feedback is the real deal when games actually bother to USE it. Here's the thing, though: only AstroBot DOES. Not even Sony's own Sackboy or Demon's Souls really DO anything with the controller, and one of those is a PS5 exclusive so it has no excuse. The microphone on the Dualsense does seem to be a lot louder and clearer than the one on the Dualshock 4. However, I've only had this thing for a month, and I've already seen an instance of "Dualsense Drift" on one of my 2 controllers. I put in Crash 4 the other day, and the game was just completely unplayable on one of the DualSense, as it just started reading completely different and phantom left stick movements than I was entering. The issue immediately corrected when I turned off that controller and swapped it out for my other one. Hopefully, that was just a fluke, but I doubt I'm that lucky.

One other thing, and I realize this is an issue particular to me: the Trophy experience on PS5 is just really terrible in general. For one, they swapped out that loud "PING!" PS4 sound effect for trophy pops for just a dull popping sound. It really makes the act of GETTING a trophy feel underwhelming now. The PS5 now records little 14 second videos every time you get a trophy.

Every. Time. That certainly doesn't clog up the SSD at all. -_-

In theory, this would be a nice extension of the screenshot uploads I already do with some trophies, except that trophy pops are somewhat delayed on PS5 so by the time those auto videos start recording, you've already done the thing that caused the trophy pop so what's the point?

There's also the little matter of "Activity Cards", an addition to the trophy system that, in theory, game-ifies in-game activities even further. In games like Astrobot, these are really neat. I'd be in an area stuck looking for a certain collectible, I'd pull up the activity card for the area, and there would actually be a little video hinting me where I should look for THAT missing collectible IN PARTICULAR. It just knew what I was missing to complete the activity.

Thing is, Astrobot is the only game I've seen to DO anything with these Activity Cards except to make them representative of the Trophy System. They're also gigantic cards laid out horizontally, which makes it a pain the ass to sort through them if you DO want to browse through a game's trophies to see what you do and don't have.

The PS5 UI is a mess, and I have to imagine the only reason Sony hasn't completely overhauled it yet is because the PS5 userbase is still extremely constrained by the lack of supply, so there simply aren't enough people to yell at them yet over how terrible it is.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2021, 04:24:59 PM by broodwars »
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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2021, 08:25:44 PM »
The Series X interface is, as far as I can tell, identical to the Xbox One's, which I like, and fits the approach Microsoft seems to be taking with the platform.
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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2021, 09:12:37 PM »
Sounds like it's still in very rough shape. Are those disc reading issues firmware or hardware problems you reckon? Hope they'll smooth out when they inevitably overhaul the user interface. Wild how one of the controllers is drifting a month in. Seems like several of the modern controllers have this issue currently. With Nintendo it seems to come down to poor design, but I wonder if increased complexity and/or lower quality components are compounding issues, or something else is causing these issues.

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Re: Sitting on the sidelines: PS5 vs XB Series X
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2021, 11:10:26 PM »
The Series X interface is, as far as I can tell, identical to the Xbox One's, which I like, and fits the approach Microsoft seems to be taking with the platform.
It's ironic that they're using the same ui considering this is the same company that introduced like 8 different ui overhauls on the 360.
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