Author Topic: Pokemon "Ideal"? (Read 13383 times)

Mario · « **Reply #25 on:** September 10, 2004, 02:16:01 PM »

Chen is right, most people have no idea about Pokemon, which only makes them easy to absolutely destroy in a Pokemon battle. If Pokemon were online, it'd seperate the true Pokemon trainers and the people who have no idea what they're doing.

Pokemon is the deepest game I have ever played.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #26 on:** September 10, 2004, 08:57:31 PM »

And Pokemon online would actually make it feasible to play against capable people, I mean I only know exactly one other person that played the game (well, not using an emulator). Fat chance of me even getting to try any form of tactics (besides, Psychic ignores defense and is only ineffective against psycho types, which (except for Mewtwo) even at lv. 100 cannot survive one hit, even with the elemental bonus). The base game doesn't even require you to keep an eye on elemental advantages/disadvantages (unless you try to match elements from the beginning, then you might end up too weak to go against the elemental advantage).

odifiend · « **Reply #27 on:** September 11, 2004, 05:27:29 AM »

Very true, KDR. When I first played Pokemon Blue there was no strategy involved. It wasn't until I got Pokemon Stadium and got my ass handed to me, I started varying move sets. Pokemon Stadium 2's library was freaking amazing for making you a lot more Pokemon consicous. A lot of people including probably 75% of those who rebuy the games just never discovered that element of Pokemon.

CHEN · « **Reply #28 on:** September 11, 2004, 05:56:25 AM »

Psychic a lot less broken now, because of the fact that Game Freak divided Special into Special Attack and Special Defense in the new games. There was a time when Mewtwo was simply broken because Amnesia raised Special which made him invincible with Recover and Psychic. Now it only raises Special Attack. And the fact that the Dark type and Steel type were introduced. Dark is effective against it while Psychic is ineffective against Dark and Steel. Psychic was effective against Ghost, now it's just a regular attack. So it's much more balanced now.

Uh, trying to be on-topic, this is what the core of Pokémon should be as long as it exists. It's accessible for everyone, yet deep enough for the competitive ones among us. That's why Pokémon is such a huge hit. It's a brilliantly designed concept that works almost flawlessly.

Syl · « **Reply #29 on:** September 12, 2004, 08:15:56 AM »

I've agreed with everything Chen has said this entire topic, and its horribly clear that KDR hasn't played a recent, or competitive, pokemon game.

I'm currently enjoying leaf green, so i'll get back to this later.

MaleficentOgre · « **Reply #30 on:** September 12, 2004, 09:24:39 PM »

The problem with pokemon online is the majority of pokemon players are 12 years old. I don't know very many 12 year old online gamers. Online pokemon is just too big of a step to happen anytime soon. And who considers themselves a pokemon pro. What constitutes a professional pokemon player. The first pkmn game I picked up was sapphire and I beat some kid that had been playing since red/blue by just attacking and hoping my pokemon didn't die. As long as you upgrade your pokemon as much as possible and have better move sets than your opponents you will always win. Coliseum was a step in the right direction. All it needs to do is get rid of the turn based system, add logic to the storyline and include voices and unique animations for all pokemon and attacks and pokemon will take off with people that currently are too cool to play it.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #31 on:** September 12, 2004, 10:44:18 PM »

Oh, yes, loads of 12 year olds thinking they are the greatest trainer in the world... Sounds like a nice source of experience to me. Once you add powerlevelers and botters to the equation that results in a LOT of crying timmies (come on, there's not enough tactics in the game that you couldn't teach an AI all of them, this isn't Go).
Syl: Considering the only time I ever played against a human opponent (and the only time I knew a human opponent, too) was before even yellow was out, that's how my experience turned out. The problem with Pokemon is that it requires people to bring their own savegames. Games like that never work for me, noone I know plays them and therefore noone has any savegames (and a savegame isn't something you can set up in five minutes).

CHEN · « **Reply #32 on:** September 13, 2004, 12:02:42 AM »

KDR: http://www.freewebs.com/synre/RSBotTutorial.htm

Nephilim · « **Reply #33 on:** September 13, 2004, 05:27:19 AM »

Would be boring, in reality
someone said it would show the real trainers from the rest
In reality it will be a bunch of n00bs with there 5 rare pokemon.

everyone will just use the 15odd rare pokemon, would be useless to real trainers
The only fair battles would be low level

KDR_11k · « **Reply #34 on:** September 13, 2004, 06:44:52 AM »

CHEN: I guess one needs to have played Ruby or Saphire to know about most of those attributes (Do those stat-increasing items count as effort points or what?)? ... Hm, need money... (Ack, and a translator! Those translations aren't trivial, at least for the moves)

CHEN · « **Reply #35 on:** September 13, 2004, 08:03:36 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: DeadlyD
Would be boring, in reality
someone said it would show the real trainers from the rest
In reality it will be a bunch of n00bs with there 5 rare pokemon.

everyone will just use the 15odd rare pokemon, would be useless to real trainers
The only fair battles would be low level

Was that directed to the link? If so, don't judge something you know little about. RS Bots weren't specifically designed for 'n00bs', it was designed for competitive people. It's great for pro's who want to experiment and battle with other pro's with lvl. 100 pokémon + perfect values without all the hassle. Most of them experiment with different movesets and teams of six. It's very challenging to think of a balanced team with little weaknesses while able to counter all types. That's why they battle other pro's to find out if a team has any particular weakness. Knowing the metagame is important too. If, for example, Skarmory is played a lot, you obviously need someone to get rid of Spikes. Legendaries are banned in most tournaments by the way, so it's all mostly fair.

And KDR, go to Gamefaqs, to the Ruby & Sapphire FAQ page. There's an interesing FAQ called 'Advanced Trainer Guide'. That's a good way to start understanding the deep part of Pokémon. It's filled with mathemathical equations and statistics, so it could get boring if you're not very good at numbers.

MaleficentOgre · « **Reply #36 on:** September 13, 2004, 08:17:18 AM »

Still who is a pokemon pro, what person considers themselves a profesional pokemon player.

odifiend · « **Reply #37 on:** September 13, 2004, 11:53:58 AM »

Nobody is a professional unless they get paid for the job they're doing, so I think possibly that girl at IGN and maybe 10 other people are pro pokemon players.
But I consider myself very Pokemon conscious and it would take another skilled person to take on my team.

MaleficentOgre · « **Reply #38 on:** September 13, 2004, 12:37:51 PM »

your team of pokemon or your posse of fellow pokemon players.

odifiend · « **Reply #39 on:** September 13, 2004, 04:27:04 PM »

um... pokemon team. I guess that could have been ambiguous. I have one friend who I'm competitive with and my brother isn't bad either, though.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #40 on:** September 13, 2004, 08:57:51 PM »

CHEN: Numbers aren't the problem, remembering 200+ different objects and their properties without any form of gradual introduction or context (that basically means playing the game) is... Well, I'll have money next month so maybe then.

I thought that 5 legendaries comment was aimed at the Pokemon MMO... Urgh, camping legendary spawns... Fun!

CHEN · « **Reply #41 on:** September 14, 2004, 07:45:44 AM »

Have you read the FAQ? That should make it much more clear. You don't have to remember every thing there is to learn. Just remember what kind of move set competitive pokémon have so you can anticipate their attacks. You don't have to remember for example what type Ledian is, because no one in their right mind would use it. And of course, remember the (dual) types competitive pokémon have so you know the attack is effective or not. Like for example Zangoose. Zangoose's role is always sweeping and its move set is likely Return, Shadow Ball, Brick Break and Swords Dance, and occassionally Quick Attack/Flail. Other moves will make him worse, so even if your opponent gave it different moves you'll be at an advantage. You should know that you shouldn't bring Alakazam against Zangoose, since he'll get defeated easily by Shadow Ball.

I don't know if I should recommend this, so that's why I said read the FAQ first. And if you're not interested after reading it, then don't bother. Pokémon can get dull pretty fast if you don't enjoy it. That's why most people should just play it for fun and not worry about anything at all, since the game's AI is pretty easy to defeat. Stat enhancements? Don't need them. Fire Blast? Because it's cool. Ah, I should play that way too, it's much more relaxing than all the competitive battling. *Remembers the good old year 1997*

KDR_11k · « **Reply #42 on:** September 15, 2004, 12:14:10 AM »

But having a FAQ tell you all of the good combinations takes the whole fun out of figuring them out yourself, doesn't it?

CHEN · « **Reply #43 on:** September 15, 2004, 03:58:32 AM »

But it doesn't tell you that at all. It merely explains the depth of the gameplay, the invisible values and why Pokémon have better stats by natural selection. This isn’t something you can figure out yourself. You'll understand a lot more after reading it. Once again:

Gamefaqs > GBA > Pokémon Ruby FAQ page > Advanced Trainer Guide by egervari

Nephilim · « **Reply #44 on:** September 15, 2004, 05:02:24 AM »

back 6 years ago
I had this game, Pokemon Red
we use to have lil mini tourneys
use to come out, I never used you "stats" rasising to win a match, esp Mewtwo vs Mewtwo
You saying you raise the stats to win, didnt work
Only way to win, esp if you had both used PP up (these were the days before the missingno. glitches) was to use a Ice attack. There for freezing the other Mewtwo, making it that they couldnt use recover or attack

They fact you claim I know nothing is silly
The fact is Pokemon in this age, has too many rare and unbalanced pokemon
Pokemon such as straight Bug type are now useless

you can use your gamefaqs guide all you wish, but learning from mistakes is better then reading some guys view

odifiend · « **Reply #45 on:** September 15, 2004, 05:26:07 AM »

"Pokemon such as straight Bug type are now useless"
ara? Look you know nothing. Apparently the people you fought against were also ignorant to the depth of pokemon. You probably could have ended a mewtwo vs. mewtwo match faster if you used amnesia...
DeadlyD the point is that Pokemon evolved a whole lot from Red/Blue to Gold and Silver. They divided the special stat and added dark pokemon and steel pokemon, therefore mewtwo lost his advantage 3 times. He is still a powerhouse but a good scizor or pinsir could take him out, as could heracross (all bug pokemon). Tyranitar, a new pokemon, would crush mewtwo, and suicune, my favorite pokemon, could take out mewtwo as soon as he attacks.
It is true that there are many rare Pokemon, but now that there are more of them it is easier to achieve balance. Everyone has the ability to catch them and now that there are more than six, there is variety in the lineups even if people bring strictly legendary pokemon to battle. Even so, you can agree with your opponent that legendaries are off limits, I find battles a lot more strategic this way.
I've never used gamefaqs to learn the stat-whatevers. You could have noticed the natural selection thing just by having plenty of Pokemon babies. And I learned ideal movesets from Pokemon Stadium. I guess that is the more expensive way, but I enjoyed myself and did learn from my mistakes. Though right now I'm fed up with Pokemon. :___:

CHEN · « **Reply #46 on:** September 15, 2004, 08:24:24 AM »

Quote
you can use your gamefaqs guide all you wish, but learning from mistakes is better then reading some guys view

Did you even read the FAQ? Thought so.

News:

Author Topic: Pokemon "Ideal"? (Read 13383 times)