Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[broodwars]

For the record, as apparently one of the few people here who has actually played Baten Kaitos Origins and bought it at launch, I can tell you that it is an excellent game (IMO, it's far better than the first game).  But it is an extremely niche budget title with ideas that were controversial even to fans of the first game.  But Nintendo still brought it over here because they had nothing else to release before Twilight Princess.  The game didn't sell well, but the GameCube only had a fraction of the audience the Wii has and NoA put no marketing into it.  And when it came time for Nintendo of America to once again find something to to release before Skyward Sword, they decided it was better to let the Wii atrophy as a gaming console than take a chance with a larger audience and a better game.  And it's not like they decided to put a different game in place with more sales potential.  They just left a huge, gaping hole in the release schedule where Wii hardware and software sales could only get worse.

That's my issue with how NoA handled last year, made all the worse by NoE footing the bills for the Rainfall games' localizations.  I have other issues with Reggie, but that's my big one with the Rainfall games.

[ThePerm]

its so funny how easy it is to blame to figurehead and how people do it without thinking about all the variables involved. Obama just...i mean Reggie..Bush? um..

[BlackNMild2k1]

Wii U gets a mention on ABC news
 http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/hot-electronics-2012-15320914?tab=9482930&section=1206852&playlist=15320091


CES Chatter;
It also sounds like Nintendo its aiming too have Netflix on Wii U at launch, but content providers are trying to charge Netflix more for the "streaming content to the uMote" privilege suggesting that it's streaming to a TV and a portable system therefore should cost more.

[Spak-Spang]

Wow.  Content providers just don't get it.  The uMote is not a portable device, and if you take it away from the WiiU station you won't get the streamed media.

I really hate this crazy mindset.  Rip off the customer as much as possible.  Seriously...just let people innovate and make good products and software, and don't try to nickel and dime your customer.  Or your customer will just stream Youtube to the uMote and be done with it.

[Chozo Ghost]

For all those brown nosing apologists who keep trying to justify Reggie's refusal to bring the game over because it "won't sell", let me ask you this: How come Nintendo of Europe had no problem bringing these Japanese games over to the European market? Europe is not Japan anymore than North America is Japan, so if Japanese games can be brought to Europe why can't they be brought here?

That is the major hole in your argument.

I have no idea who the president of NoE is, but whoever it is is doing a far better job than the president of NOA. That's for sure.

[Chozo Ghost]

If Xenoblade was to come out in North America and fail, then the blame would rely 100% on Reggie since he would have made that decision, and he'd have no way of redirecting some of the blame back to Iwata by saying he was against the decision.

Clearly, the president of NOE (whoever that is) had enough balls to take the risk.

If Reggie is a coward with no balls who is more concerned about his job than he is about supporting fans then I have zero respect for him whatsoever. What good is he to Nintendo fans? He doesn't give a **** about us. All he cares about are casuals who are only jumping on the bandwagon because it was a 15 minute fad they heard about on the news like tickle me elmo, and many of these casual "fans" have probably already moved on to Kinect or something else. Meanwhile he is giving the finger to loyal gamers like me who have stuck with the company since the NES days.

So should I blame Reggie for this? Or is the fault of Nintendo as a whole? If Reggie is the piece of **** behind this then I can still be a Nintendo fan despite that, but if this is the attitude of Nintendo as a whole then I am done with them. Which is it?

Honestly, I don't think this is the fault of Nintendo as a whole. These games came out in Japan and in Europe. Its just North America (and Australia too, probably) which is being **** on. So why is it that the North America region is getting the short end of the stick when the two other major regions are not? If Reggie is not to blame for this, then who is? Since Reggie is the one in charge of NOA I think logically he is the one to blame, because like Truman said "the buck stops here". Since these games made their way to Japan I can't blame Iwata, and they also came out in Europe so its not like Iwata blocked their release in Europe. So I have no reason to blame Iwata or NCL for this one region (my region) being excluded.

[Adrock]

How come Nintendo of Europe had no problem bringing these Japanese games over to the European market?

Nintendo of America has better management. Nintendo of Europe will release almost anything regardless if how the games will perform. That loose cannon approach to business isn't conducive for profitablity. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you automatically should. Of course, there are pros and cons.

Reggie has approved the release of several niche games that failed to meet expectations and that was in the middle of the Wii/DS dominance years. I'm not apologizing for anything. I bought none of those games new (i.e. Hotel Dusk, Elite Beat Agents etc.). I'm as guilty as anyone for NOA's reluctance to bring over games that typically do not resonate with Western audiences. One can argue that The Last Story/Xenoblade are much different titles but at the end of the day, they're niche titles with short legs. They might have had a chance of building a solid fan base like 13 years ago but those days are long gone. Many popular JRPGS series have been dormant for years. All things considered, I struggle to see how anyone can be surprised that NOA held off on these titles.

I'm also aware that NOA doesn't deserve the beating they're taking from the minority of so-called fans such as yourself because NCL is responsible for every game in development, meaning they had NOTHING planned for release on the Wii except some JRPGs, Kirby, Mario Party 24, and Zelda. Obviously, many if not all of those remaining teams are working on Wii U titles. You're looking for a scapegoat and you're picking on NOA/Reggie but you're unapologeticly not even attempting to look at this objectively.

[Spak-Spang]

Well, I would say it doesn't matter.


Companies make bad decisions, and you can still support them if you like their products.  I am not a big fan of all of Nintendo's decisions, but I am a fan of their games and I enjoy playing Nintendo's game above all other video games. 


As such I will always be a Nintendo fan until their games are just not fun for me anymore...then I will give them up.  But, until that time, I will support Nintendo's awesome games and think they are very bone headed when it comes to making some business decisions.

[Ceric]

I would Counter that NoE has to release a larger variety of games simply because they have a vastly more varied region then the other main branches.

I do think that if NoE has already done the translation and like that NoA should be more willing to take a risk on a game since they'll have less skin in the game. 

Though, as mentioned, NCL is over the entire Nintendo brand strategy and its just as much there planning fail as anything else when it comes to Wii games.  I think they honestly just got to the point of not really knowing what to do with the Wii as it is. 

Though they knocked this Holiday out for the 3DS.

[Chozo Ghost]

So the fact I am preordering Xenoblade Chronicles means nothing? You are saying people won't buy those games, but I am going to do just that. If NOA would get off their ass and bring the other Operation Rainfall games over I will preorder those as well. I'm not just saying they should bring the games over, I'm also willing to put my money where my mouth is and buy those games.

Adrock, I also love how you called me a "so-called fan", implying that I'm not. I would argue I am more of a fan than you are, because unlike you I actually care about the direction Nintendo is heading in and I don't like it. I want to see them be a great company that people can respect and love, but the direction Reggie is steering it in is one about making a quick buck off a gimmick to nongamers who won't even care a year later. That's Reggie's mentality, and its one that will lead to disaster for the company in the long run. If I wasn't a Nintendo fan I wouldn't care and I wouldn't complain. I would just shrug them off and say they will get what they deserve, but since I do actually care that's why I complain.

[Adrock]

YOU preordered the game but YOU don't represent the majority of Wii owners, let alone the majority of Nintendo fans. Neither do I. I don't just buy the big releases and I'm going to buy Xenoblade. We represent such a small niche of gamers interested in these games. How are you not getting this?

And I love how you called me and others "brown nosing apologists." There's nothing to apologize for. Whether you're willing to own up to it, we're all partially reaponsible for these games not being released. I'm disappointed we didn't get these games last year but I'm fair. I call you a so-called fan because all you do is complain. You keep pushing this agenda that Nintendo is is leaving you behind in favor of non-gamers which is not only ridiculous but just plain wrong. Nintendo has released more core titles on the Wii than any previous generation. For example, Nintendo release THREE brand new Mario games this generation (specifically referring to Galaxy 1 and 2 and NSMBW). That's the first time that's happened since the NES. But you want more. So much more than any company is capable of giving. NOA holds off on 3 games in a genre that typically does not perform well in the West and it's unacceptable. The dozens of others games Nintendo of America released over the past 5 years cease to be as a result.

[Ian Sane]

I've had this "still a fan but bitching constantly" routine before.  I had it with the WWF.  I used to be a huge pro wrestling fan... actually I realistically still am.  As they turned into WWE they moved more and more into a direction I didn't like and I found myself complaining more and more about the product.  Eventually I stopped watching entirely because I realized I liked NONE of it.  It had completely changed into something I hated.  This was something I used to love but now it sucks.  I still love the old stuff.  I've gone to local indie shows in my area and had a great time.  Clearly I didn't outgrow it or lose interest - the product changed.

I complained a lot at the time because I gave a ****.  Because deep down I really cared about the WWF.  They were a part of my life.  Seeing them change was like seeing a good friend change into someone I didn't get along with anymore.  If it was just some company, I wouldn't care.  There have been TV shows and music acts that jumped the shark on me and I basically shrugged it off.  I used to like Sega and now they suck but it doesn't really bother me.  My response to Sega turning into something I don't like it just a quick "eh, that's too bad."

But Nintendo is more than that.  They're my favourite videogame company.  They're really the reason I love videogames in the first place.  I think at their peak they were the greatest videogame company of all time and I know they still have the talent to be that company.  The Wii was PAINFUL for me.  All these years as we were frustrated with their lack of success we would discuss ideas for how they could bounce back and be number one again.  Some people would give me flack for my suggestions as they thought that changes to Nintendo policy would change the company too much.  I always maintained that it was important that Nintendo not compromise who they are to succeed.  That could and should change the little stuff but not compromise what made their fans love them in the first place.

The Wii was my worst fear.  They compromised the system itself to put all their backing behind this mainstream pandering gimmick.  They made dumbed down games that I consider to be a pretty low quality to attract non-gamers.  They even shoehorned wonky gimmick controls into their otherwise good games!  These are compromises to what really matters about Nintendo.  And they had tremendous success with it.  And being number one didn't even help the fans because it didn't attract third party support.  That was the whole point!  This isn't some contest.  I don't give a **** who number one is, I only cared because I felt it would get the third party support back to NES/SNES levels.  It's the worst case scenario for me.  Them going UNDER would probably bother me less.

Now I got to worry about every Nintendo game having broken ass gimmick controls or dumbed down concessions made for non-gamers.  The very quality of their games is called into question and that's the whole point.  That's what makes Nintendo special in the first place.  They turned into something I don't like and this next gen will determine if this is a permanent change or a blip that will right itself.  That's why I bitch because this matters to me and the whole thing is turning to **** before my eyes.  Nintendo is losing what made me gave a **** about them in the first place.

[Chozo Ghost]

For example, Nintendo release THREE brand new Mario games this generation (specifically referring to Galaxy 1 and 2 and NSMBW).

And that is great. There is also a lot of other platformers like DKC, so the Wii has done a great job in respect to that genre. Do you hear me complaining there aren't enough platformers on the Wii?  I don't know about you, but I like more than one genre of gaming. Platformers are great, but what if I want to play an RPG or a shooter or a survival horror game? These genres aren't very well represented on the Wii. Sure, there has been a few 3rd party offerings, but these tend to suck. So when I found out Nintendo had a bunch of awesome games released in Japan I got excited thinking they were going to come here, but they never did, and aside from Xenoblade Chroncles they probably never will.

Its kinda like dying of thirst in a desert, but instead of just dying you see someone over on the other side of the desert (Japan) guzzling down about 10 bottles of Gatorade, and you get to watch them have that while you are left to die of thirst. That's kinda what its like here. If these games didn't exist at all that would be bad enough, but they do exist and that's what makes me especially angry about this whole thing. If the Wii had a drought of games world wide I would complain and that would suck, but these games do exist and if they were released in the UK that means they were localized into English, so there's no excuse whatsoever for they couldn't be released here.

I understand that argument about risks and all that, but if NOE can do it then NOA can do it also... and NOA should even have an easier time of it, because all they have to do is take the UK version of the game and convert it into NTSC and that's it. They don't need to do new translations or hire new voice actors. They can just use the work that's already done. Even if not many people bought the game, are you saying it couldn't even break even? Its not like they have to make the games from scratch or anything.

[Adrock]

No, I hear you complaining about way too much. "I WANT MORE THINGS!" You will never be satisfied. You claim Nintendo isn't a great company despite all of the awesomeness you got since Nintendo entered the industry. You are unbelievable with your expectations. It's exhausting.

Localizing these games isn't the costly part. That takes the longest but it's probably the least expensive part of the process even if Nintendo of Europe hadn't already taken care of that part. Everything from printing the discs to marketing to shipping and so on is what Nintendo of America didn't find worthwhile. So Nintendo of Europe felt differently. That doesn't make it the best choice. Maybe you don't care about a company posting profits but really, at least subconsciously, you should because NOA is going to be even more stringent in the future if they lose money. "Because Nintendo of Europe released those games" is not a good enough reason. We're talking about completely different regions here. I don't know how things are in Europe but JRPGs don't really sell exceptionally well in NA unless, of course, you're talking about Final Fantasy.

[marty]

It's utter ignorance to say that releasing Xenoblade in NA could cost Nintendo money.  There was a profitable way to do it last year and they balked at the opportunity. 

To claim that people are complaining about not getting what they wanted from a video-game console doesn't make sense.  All game consoles sell because there is an understanding that there are more games on the way.  Every customer of a video-game console is reasonably entitled to expect that they can purchase games in the future for their console.  It's entirely reasonable to expect software that was developed for and released on a console to be made available for everyone that bought that console.

[Chozo Ghost]

Adrock, if you want to talk about costs then what could be more costly to a company than turning their backs on their most diehard fans and losing them? That was what killed Sega back in the mid-90s when they came out with the 32x and didn't support it properly and then coming out with the Saturn a few months later and making all those fans who bought the 32x feel betrayed and disillusioned. That was the greatest cost of all to Sega, and the fans they lost largely went to the PS1 and the Dreamcast failed to win them back.

Turning your back on loyal paying customers is the worst thing a company can do. You can talk about localizing having costs or manufacturing having costs, but all of that is nothing compared to customer loyalty. If you lose that you're history. Do you think these fly by night bandwagon casuals are going to stay loyal to Nintendo? Many of them have already abandoned the Wii for things like Kinect, or whatever the latest bandwagon fad happens to be.

Nintendo should invest in its fans. There may be some losses in the short term, but the gains over the long term are immeasurable. On the other hand, if Nintendo refuses to take the "risk" of investing in fans then yes they have no risk of losing money in the short term, but over the long term there will be a far greater cost.

I think Nintendo and Reggie are in for a rude awakening with the Wii U. These last few years of kicking their best friends to the curb for 15 minutes of fame is going to come back to haunt them big time. The Wii U will probably do well, but I doubt it will have the same level of success as the Wii did.

[Adrock]

Not releasing 3 games is suddenly Nintendo turning their backs in their customers?

It's absurd for you to even suggest that. It's even more absurd to compare anything Nintendo did to the 32X.

You are in the minority of the minorty. Everyone else is fine with this. Disappointed maybe but fine nonetheless. It's just not possible for any company to appease every last fan especially when they're as needy and whiny as you are.

[MegaByte]

Stop with the name-calling, everyone.

[Chozo Ghost]

Everyone else is fine with this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBu7ImHCtRU

[Adrock]

I'm not watching 11 minutes of that guy. However, I will point out that the sentences before and after the one you quoted are important. You are in the minority of the minority, meaning you are in the minority of core Wii owners who even wants these games but also the minority of those people who are seethingly mad that they haven't been brought over yet. Everyone else is merely disappointed but have otherwise accepted it.

Your logic is flawed, sir. You are requiring Nintendo to release absolutely every single game otherwise they are turning their backs on their "loyal customers." That would require you, as a "loyal customer" to buy every single game Nintendo releases and brand new I might add which I highly doubt you do. Otherwise, you are turning your back on Nintendo and thus are not a loyal fan under those extremely strict giidelines. As a company providing an optional service, Nintendo does their best to appease as many people as possible just as you, the recepient of said service, do your best to support Nintendo. In other words, you cannot conceivably ask for everything when you cannot possibly support everything you require Nintendo to provide. Well, you can but you would be blatantly supporting a double standard.

[Ian Sane]

There is no way Nintendo having such a huge gap in the Wii release schedule in 2011 was a good thing.  It made the Wii look less like the unstoppable juggernaut of this generation and more like exactly what every detrator thought it was: a FAD that had it's time in the sun and died out.  To use an old football meme the Wii was "who we thought it it was".

For much of 2011 Nintendo was out of sight and out of mind.  I remember the "transition" from the N64 to the Gamecube.  There was no transition.  The N64 had it's last releases and was DONE and then there was nothing for at least six months until the Cube launched.  During that time Nintendo essentially didn't exist on the console front.  The gaming sites didn't talk about them.  They didn't have ads on TV.  They were gone and then had to come back with no momentum.  Xenoblade and these other games could have filled the gaps and maybe they wouldn't make a profit.  But Nintendo and the Wii would still be seen as relevant and current.  At least the game sites would have Nintendo console reviews and previews going.  The Wii is dead but it didn't need to be.

It's typical Nintendo short-sightedness.  They're afraid to risk losing some money in the short term without taking into account the benefit it can have in the short term.  The Wii being "exposed" as a fad is no good.  That will not help Wii U sales.  Nintendo being seen as the casual company that would let the system ROT for a year while games are not localized because they're too niche is NOT a good thing if they want the business of core gamers with the Wii U.  And hell this whole Xenoblade thing became a story.  Nintendo was in the gaming news but in a BAD way, in a "we're out of touch fuddyduddies who only care abou the casual dollar" way.  Even Xenoblade's release is not good PR.  All the good PR went to Gamestop for stepping in and helping it get released while NOA arguably looks WORSE as this exposes that they never had any plans of releasing it while if they just did it on their own they could claim that they were going to all along and it just took longer than we would have liked.

Maybe everyone who knows about this is in the minority.  Fine.  That's the fuckin' point.  Core gamers are the minority so if Nintendo is going to treat them as an afterthought they can kiss that market good bye on the Wii U.  If they want to put all their eggs in the casual basket then they should quit pussyfooting and do it.  But I don't like it and why would I?

[Chozo Ghost]

I'm not watching 11 minutes of that guy. However, I will point out that the sentences before and after the one you quoted are important. You are in the minority of the minority, meaning you are in the minority of core Wii owners who even wants these games but also the minority of those people who are seethingly mad that they haven't been brought over yet. Everyone else is merely disappointed but have otherwise accepted it.

Your logic is flawed, sir. You are requiring Nintendo to release absolutely every single game otherwise they are turning their backs on their "loyal customers." That would require you, as a "loyal customer" to buy every single game Nintendo releases and brand new I might add which I highly doubt you do. Otherwise, you are turning your back on Nintendo and thus are not a loyal fan under those extremely strict giidelines. As a company providing an optional service, Nintendo does their best to appease as many people as possible just as you, the recepient of said service, do your best to support Nintendo. In other words, you cannot conceivably ask for everything when you cannot possibly support everything you require Nintendo to provide. Well, you can but you would be blatantly supporting a double standard.

First off, the relationship between customers and businesses is asymmetrical so comparing what customers do and what businesses do is like comparing apples and oranges. It is the businesses job to provide goods and services and cater to customer demand. Customers on the other hand are not required to buy anything. Its up to the business in question to win them over. That's where NoA has failed.

Secondly, I've never expressed an interest in every game Nintendo has ever made, so why would it be a double standard anyway if I didn't buy them? The Operation Rainfall, yes, I am interested in those and I would buy them. If they came out and I didn't buy them then and only then would I be a hypocrite and guilty of a double standard.

What sets the Operation Rainfall games apart from most of the rest of the Wii's lineup is these are top notch high quality games which THOUSANDS of people have been petitioning and demanding to be released. I have heard people on this very forum who have imported it saying that Xenoblade Chronicles is the best RPG of the year, or even the best RPG of this generation. The sort of customers responses like that are what makes withholding these games an almost criminal act on the part of NOA.

And yes, they are bringing Xenoblade Chronicles over, but they are doing it in the most half ass way possible which doesn't do it justice if it truly is the best RPG of this generation. It almost seems like NOA wants the game to fail and have stacked the deck to make sure that happens. Only Gamestop will be selling it, and there is probably not going to be any ad campaign. Those two factors alone pretty much guarantee it to fail... and that's unacceptable for something that has received such high critical acclaim.

Maybe if Reggie were actually a gamer who played video games and understood what gamers want he would understand why bringing these games over is important to Nintendo fans. But I don't think he is a gamer at all. After all, we're talking about the very same man who was surprised that Other M was a flop and he couldn't understand why. Reggie needs to be fired and someone who actually does play video games needs to take his place. I don't care who it is... even a monkey could probably do a better job (just so long as that monkey was an actual gamer).

[Kytim89]

These are some very graphic videos but it symbolizes what Reggie and NoA have done to their loyal fanbase:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj4LnfkdJDM
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Va0oO571Qo&feature=related
 
Watch at your own risk.

[BlackNMild2k1]

more Wii U @ CES

[Adrock]

First off, the relationship between customers and businesses is asymmetrical...

See, that's true until you started pushing the loyalty card which I'll get to in a minute. All the things you're saying Nintendo should be doing, they ARE doing. You didn't get 3 games and you're acting like a spoiled 7-year old girl who didn't get the pony she wanted. They have only "failed" in meeting the very specific demands on the very few. No company in the world can please their entire customer base. That is literally impossible. They're bound to disappoint someone somewhere in some way.

Secondly, I've never expressed an interest in every game Nintendo has ever made, so why would it be a double standard anyway if I didn't buy them? The Operation Rainfall, yes, I am interested in those and I would buy them. If they came out and I didn't buy them then and only then would I be a hypocrite and guilty of a double standard.

You're the one thumping the loyalty card. However, loyalty is a two-way street. It's give and take. You're promoting a double standard because you expect preferential treatment without doing anything special to deserve it. That's not loyalty. That's entitlement. That's having unrealistic expectations because you bought some **** at some point. That doesn't make you special. That makes you every other consumer ever. The vast majority of Nintendo fans are okay with not getting the Rainfall games. Most of them will NOT buy Xenoblade now that it's finally coming to NA and never planned to anyway. Some will. Collectively, they make up the group of core gamers that Nintendo caters to because they're the ones who are demanding but aren't impossible to please, not the tiny subset stomping their feet in a corner that you belong to. Nintendo can't (and shouldn't attempt to) please you without falling into financial ruin because this doesn't begin and end with the Rainfall titles. You complain about a lot of things. You call for Reggie's head when he's the best President and COO that Nintendo of America has ever seen. By far. It's not even close. There's a reason why he's running NOA and you are not.

So, tell me, what exactly sets you, a supposed "loyal customer," from the rest of us "normal customers?" Certainly, you must be doing something the rest of us norms aren't doing since you're putting yourself on a pedestal as a special case that Nintendo must grovel to. If you are demanding that Nintendo cater specifically to your needs and wants by releasing every single game without regard for profitability as proof of their undying love for you Oh Loyal Customer, then, yes, to prove your loyalty in return, you must be going above and beyond everyone else. Otherwise, you're just regular ol' customer like the rest of us.

What sets the Operation Rainfall games apart from most of the rest of the Wii's lineup is these are top notch high quality games which THOUSANDS of people have been petitioning and demanding to be released.

And not MILLIONS... There's your answer.