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Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Kytim89 on December 02, 2011, 09:46:33 PM

Title: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 02, 2011, 09:46:33 PM
It just hit me that Retro Studios has become one of my favorite developers. Now, keep in mind that Nintendo's next home console will be out by the end of next year and that Retro Studios is supposed;y working on something for the console. What could that game be? Well, here is a list of games that Retro Studios should develope for the Wii U:
 
Star Fox Universe/Armada
A new Metroid game in third person.
 
Since Majora's Mask was devloped for the N64 a few years after Ocarina of Time, so what if Retro Studios made the next home console Zelda title that took about two or three years to make versus the time it took Skyward Sword to be made.
 
A sequel to Disaster: Day of Crisis.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 02, 2011, 09:55:12 PM
No.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: yosh on December 02, 2011, 10:09:11 PM
Rumor and speculation say that they are making a Star Fox game for the U.


Also I don't want a Metroid third person game, I want some Metroid Prime 4.


Finally, Retro or any other studio should not be allowed to put their hands on Zelda.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 02, 2011, 10:12:23 PM
I have no doubt that Retro would do an excellent job with Zelda, or any game on that list, I just would hate to see them have to do another existing Nintendo franchise. I could live with Star Fox, because I'm desperate for a new entry in the series and I doubt anyone could do a better job with it than they could, but I refuse to get my hopes up.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: the asylum on December 02, 2011, 10:24:48 PM
F-Zero. Every property they touch churns out solid gold. Put in perspective, the worst game they made was Metroid Prime 2.

The first F-Zero had the graphics but didn't have the hardware power. F-Zero X had the hadrware power but didn't have the graphics. GX had abundance of both and is one of the best games ever made. Just imagine what the wizards at Retro could do with it.

Just thinking of the possibilities makes me hot and bothered
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 02, 2011, 10:30:20 PM
I want to see them create a new IP. Its time to think outside of the box.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 02, 2011, 10:37:08 PM
I also want to see a new IP, but if they're going to reboot another Nintendo franchise it had damn well better be Star Fox.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Caterkiller on December 02, 2011, 10:41:21 PM
Yeah either it's Star Fox or something brand new. Now that they are done with Mario Kart I would like some hints or interviews to peak my curiosity.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 02, 2011, 10:48:04 PM
Be careful what you wish for. You might end up with Star Fox Adventures 2. ;)
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 02, 2011, 11:00:34 PM
Retro is a better developer than Rare ever was, let alone the Rare of 2002. The only studio in the industry right now I'd even consider putting ahead of them is EAD Tokyo, and they haven't shown the range Retro has. As long as Nintendo doesn't micromanage too much, I have total confidence in whatever they're making without knowing a single thing about it based on their output so far.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: alegoicoe on December 02, 2011, 11:05:32 PM
I think nintendo should work with retro on zelda, it would be nice to see the franchise take a fresh start after twilight princess and skyward sword, and retro has proven that they can do excellent work. i really enjoyed skywardword which i beat today after 38 hours, but i want something different from the franchise something totally new a la Ocarina of time back in 98 and windwaker in 03.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ymeegod on December 02, 2011, 11:21:44 PM
Going with new IP as well, so far Retro doesn't have one and I think it's about time Nintendo lets them create something new.

Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 02, 2011, 11:25:03 PM
yeah, no brainer. New IP Whatever they want to make. Nintendo should give them a huge budget, they are a proven developer.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Mop it up on December 02, 2011, 11:34:00 PM
I want Retro to make whatever game they want to create, because as Donkey Kong Country Returns shows, they do their best work when they get to decide what project to take on.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 02, 2011, 11:36:56 PM
Yeah, I suppose I'll make the slight adjustment and agree with Mop it up; Retro should have their choice of projects. If they want to do a new IP they should absolutely be allowed to, but if they want to do Star Fox then that's fine too.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Tamazoid on December 03, 2011, 12:30:23 AM
Maybe they are reviving Raven Blade.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Shorty McNostril on December 03, 2011, 12:30:58 AM
Freespace 3
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Adrock on December 03, 2011, 01:26:31 AM
I can't wait for E3 when the "Stop it, kytim" rule goes into effect. A sequel to Disaster: Day of Crisis? What the fuc...
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 03, 2011, 01:30:45 AM
I can't wait for E3 when the "Stop it, kytim" rule goes into effect. A sequel to Disaster: Day of Crisis? What the fuc...

As a matter of fact, Insano should edit his first post to say just that;

Stop It Kytim
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 03, 2011, 02:21:22 AM
i would have made a thread just like this in 2005
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 03, 2011, 02:25:42 AM
I created this thread as a way for us all to communicate on one of our favorite developers and to discuss what we want from their next title.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Caterkiller on December 03, 2011, 02:29:59 PM
I think Zelda took a great turn design wise and control wise. Feels more like Metroid now so I don't think Retro's talents are necessary there.

I know they are catching wind of the types of things people are saying about them. "They can revive any franchise" is probably being heard throughout their studio. I wonder if it is having any affect on their decision process on what to do next? Though I have to wonder that what ever they are planning wont be around for a very long time if they just finished with Mario Kart. Actually I take that back, they made a million or so DK stages in such a short time after E3 and when the game actually came out. In Retro I trust.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 03, 2011, 02:36:36 PM
I just had a crazy thought that'll never happen ever but still fun to think about.

What if Retro made......

EarthBound?!
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 03, 2011, 03:36:51 PM
Retro should make an M rated FPS game that can compete with the likes of COD, Halo, Killzone, etc. When you look at the Prime series you see that's the sort of game they like to do and are good at doing, but Metroid (nor any other existing franchise) should not be hijacked for that purpose. A new one should be created completely from scratch and with Retro behind it there's no way it could go wrong.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: nickmitch on December 03, 2011, 05:57:33 PM
Miyamoto did say that he could make Halo. Maybe he should. A big console exclusive FPS that shows off the online would be pretty big.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 03, 2011, 06:37:16 PM
I want Nintendo making things that aren't already done to death by third parties.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Lithium on December 03, 2011, 06:58:33 PM
I want Nintendo making things that aren't already done to death by third parties.


Agreed. I'm pretty sick of FPS' at this point, i'd rather it go the way of the platformer and let another popular genre take over.


As for Retro they're my favourite developer outside of Nintendo themselves whatever they make I'm sure I'll be happy with. I guess if they aren't doing an original I.P I'd like to see them take on a franchise that has been neglected for awhile just like how Metroid was before they worked on Prime.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Mop it up on December 03, 2011, 08:49:01 PM
The thing about the FPS genre is that there's little variety there. Most modern shooters follow the Call of Duty mold, Halo is a little different but mostly in theme. They all share at least one thing in common and that's that they strive for realism. What if an FPS had the Nintendo touch? If you're tired of FPS games then maybe it's because there isn't much variety there. Nintendo games always have at least one touch that makes them something more unique, and I imagine that's one of the reasons we're all fans.

What I would want to see is a game that went back and followed in the footsteps left by Goldeneye and Perfect Dark on the Nintendo 64. We should be past the point where shooters have wide open, outdoor stages just to show off what the hardware can do, and go back to making well designed corridor and indoor levels. Forget the two weapon limit, let us carry all the weapons we come across. Throw balance out the window, give us 41 weapons again. Toss in all the different modes, options, and other features that we used to have. And by mop, give us cheats again!

...What was the last official word about TimeSplitters 4?
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 03, 2011, 09:41:12 PM
FPS games may have been done to death by 3rd parties, but they haven't been done by Nintendo at all. That's exactly why it needs to be done. Nintendo would give it their A+ touch and it would stand out for that reason.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 03, 2011, 09:56:21 PM
No, that's exactly why Nintendo should be focusing their resources on other things. I have no doubt that Nintendo could make an excellent FPS if they set their mind to it, but I think they'd get much more bang for their buck by doing something more original. No matter what they do, they're not going to be able to outdo CoD and Battlefield, at least in terms of market share and perception, and now that they're going to have a console that can run the full versions of those people can just play those games on the Wii U while Nintendo makes games that you don't see other developers making.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 03, 2011, 10:15:37 PM
as far as fps games go. You have your Halo type game, or you have your Call of Duty type game. The only people who do anything different worth a damn seem to be valve. I know Nintendo doesn't have the Goldeneye License, but that shouldn't stop them from making 60s esque spy games. Though they do have the metroid series, and its too bad the Prime games are done because they could look really really really good on Wii U. I wonder what Armature games are doing.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Shorty McNostril on December 03, 2011, 10:41:41 PM
What worries me is that a purely Nintendo shooter will not be want your generic COD or Halo fan wants.

Nintendo has this unfortunate habit of trying to cater to everyone with every game. Therefore I would be worries that this particular title will be nothing but a rail shooter using nerf guns to tone down the violence for the little kiddies out there (who funnily enough pretty much all play the blood and gore filled swearfests of Battlefield or COD). 

Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 03, 2011, 11:05:05 PM
What about a Mario FPS game involving paintball guns? You could play online with up to like 12 players and you could choose between all the Mario characters like Peach and Yoshi, and of course Waluigi.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Shorty McNostril on December 03, 2011, 11:09:25 PM
That is exactly what I'm talking about above. That is not what the majority want.  They want to see blood all over the screen and exploding bodies, with every second word beginning with F or S. 

That would be like comparing Mario Kart to Forza or Gran Turismo.  Noone who is looking at buying Forza 5 is going to be tempted to by MarioKart U instead.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 03, 2011, 11:42:40 PM
I know we've all wanted Mario Paintball, so yeah. Anyhow, I'd imagine If Nintendo shows off some beautiful new shooting game with a different theme then people will jump ship because I'm sure by now they must be tired of the same old ****. Thats why I said the 60s spy theme. I like that genre, but am not tied to jamesbond, just classy people wearing classy stuff shooting each other with pistols and drinking martinis.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: nickmitch on December 03, 2011, 11:45:21 PM
Faceball 3000.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 04, 2011, 12:01:02 AM
A family friendly FPS E rated game has not been made by anyone (as far as I know), so if Nintendo were to make that it would be something new and original and since nothing else like it exists they would have the only thing like it in the whole world. Plus it would have the Mario universe characters, so that alone would be a major plus compared to anything any 3rd party could ever do.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: the asylum on December 04, 2011, 01:16:24 AM
A family friendly FPS E rated game has not been made by anyone (as far as I know)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIwPc-e2zKY

Super Noah's Ark, where Noah knocks out animals with a slingshot to take aboard the Ark, built on the Doom 1 engine

Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pele5vptVgc
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kwolf on December 04, 2011, 02:42:50 AM
I really hope what Retro is working on, is something that they want.   They seem to be really talented, and I get the feeling if it's something they want to do, they will put a lot of passion into it.

I'm not so sure how I feel about them going back to another Nintendo Franchise.   In some ways I kinda wonder what would happen if they did an original game, or even branched out and did an exclusive game for Nintendo but with another companies license.    Kinda like Factor 5 did with Rogue Squadron. 
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 04, 2011, 02:56:52 AM
A family friendly FPS E rated game has not been made by anyone (as far as I know)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIwPc-e2zKY

Super Noah's Ark, where Noah knocks out animals with a slingshot to take aboard the Ark, built on the Doom 1 engine

Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pele5vptVgc

Be that as it may, there needs to be a family friendly FPS game for modern consoles using a modern game engine and graphics.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Tamazoid on December 04, 2011, 08:31:37 AM
A family friendly FPS E rated game has not been made by anyone (as far as I know)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIwPc-e2zKY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIwPc-e2zKY)

Super Noah's Ark, where Noah knocks out animals with a slingshot to take aboard the Ark, built on the Doom 1 engine

Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pele5vptVgc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pele5vptVgc)

Be that as it may, there needs to be a family friendly FPS game for modern consoles using a modern game engine and graphics.


Some families don't find weapons 'family friendly'.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 04, 2011, 09:31:11 AM
What about a Mario FPS game involving paintball guns? You could play online with up to like 12 players and you could choose between all the Mario characters like Peach and Yoshi, and of course Waluigi.


That is exactly what I'm talking about above. That is not what the majority want.  They want to see blood all over the screen and exploding bodies, with every second word beginning with F or S. 

That would be like comparing Mario Kart to Forza or Gran Turismo.  Noone who is looking at buying Forza 5 is going to be tempted to by MarioKart U instead.


Actually its all in how its done.  If Nintendo could make a Mario vs game that just happened to be a first person or 3rd person shooter, but felt like Mario I would be all for it.

Though I think this game would be better as a 3rd person arena game.  Imagine playing a 3D verse Mario game with the gameplay of Mario galaxy.  It would be utterly amazing, sure you would have to be careful how you design the levels, but there could be a lot of variety in game modes, power ups and basically Nintendo could make a fun competitive Nintendo VS game that was like a FPS without really being one.  Just like Smash Brothers originally was like a fighting game, but also not really a fighting game.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThomasO on December 04, 2011, 11:16:47 AM
Since Majora's Mask was devloped for the N64 a few years after Ocarina of Time, so what if Retro Studios made the next home console Zelda title that took about two or three years to make versus the time it took Skyward Sword to be made.
That won't work because Majora's Mask used the same engine as Ocarina of Time, which allowed it to be developed in a shorter time, just like Super Mario Galaxy 2 came less than 3 years after the first.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: yosh on December 05, 2011, 12:28:31 AM
I'd like to see Nintendo develop a new FPS IP something kinda like Halo, but Nintendo. It would be fun to play, probably an excellent game, and it would sell consoles in the Western markets especially here in the US.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ian Sane on December 05, 2011, 01:02:01 PM
A family friendly FPS E rated game has not been made by anyone (as far as I know), so if Nintendo were to make that it would be something new and original and since nothing else like it exists they would have the only thing like it in the whole world. Plus it would have the Mario universe characters, so that alone would be a major plus compared to anything any 3rd party could ever do.

Ugh.  What a waste.  Nintendo has a million family friendly franchises already.  There is no need for another one.  Once in a while Nintendo makes something with a little more edge to it like Fire Emblem, Metroid and non-toon Zelda and the results are awesome.  Let the kids play their Mario and Kirby (which I also will play) and let's have something for more adult tastes.  I don't care if no one is making a kid's FPS.  Nintendo isn't making any FPS games at all.

insanolord doesn't want Nintendo working on the same thing third parties will work on.  Third parties don't do **** on Nintendo systems.  If a Wii owner wants some good FPS action, Nintendo has to provide it.

I want Retro on a new IP but I want new IP from ALL Nintendo teams.  Nintendo is in a total rutt creatively.  It's just the same franchises again and again and again.  They introduced the Wii Series and have run that into the ground pretty damn fast too.  Stupid Wuhu Island shows up everywhere and I want nothing to do with that ****.  It comes across less like a cherished Nintendo franchise and more like a lazy excuse to cut corners.  Nintendo gives off the vibe that coming up with something new is too much work.

Retro is very creative.  They have to be to have made Metroid Prime.  DKC Returns almost felt like a waste.  The Wii has tons of side-scrollers.  Why did Retro have to make another one?  And their work on Mario Kart 7?  That's nothing.  That's just treating them like some generic dev used for temp work.  It reminds me of Nintendo wasting Silicon Knights by having them port MGS, something ANY dev could have done.  If any dev can do it, then there is no point in Retro doing it.  There is no point in having talented devs to have them make the same bullshit that EAD themselves would have made.

If Retro doesn't work on Star Fox, someone else will.  If I can have someone else work on it, then it seems like a waste.  Retro is very talented and Nintendo should use that to their advantage to branch out beyond the same old thing.

Though if they are to just work on the same old bullshit, I suggest Metroid Prime just to get Sakamoto away from the series.  Metroid is at a crossroads now and Retro is the only dev I trust to not completely destroy it.  Star Fox needs saving but Metroid needs it too.  One more Other M and the series could be toast.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: broodwars on December 05, 2011, 01:15:40 PM
What I would want to see is a game that went back and followed in the footsteps left by Goldeneye and Perfect Dark on the Nintendo 64. We should be past the point where shooters have wide open, outdoor stages just to show off what the hardware can do, and go back to making well designed corridor and indoor levels. Forget the two weapon limit, let us carry all the weapons we come across. Throw balance out the window, give us 41 weapons again. Toss in all the different modes, options, and other features that we used to have. And by mop, give us cheats again!

Resistance 3.  Seriously, it's not that far off from what you asked for.  Just apparently don't play it with the Move.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Monteblanco on December 05, 2011, 05:13:20 PM
I hope they are doing a new IP but I would take anything they bring to the table.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ian Sane on December 05, 2011, 05:35:35 PM
Thinking more about Nintendo making an FPS game, the real time to do it was on the Gamecube (well I guess they did with Geist but I mean one made by a GOOD dev).  Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were cutting edge console FPS games.  Had Nintendo continued in that direction on the Gamecube they would probably have one of the more successful FPS series going.  But they didn't and now the FPS genre is so tied in with online play and Nintendo is behind the times on that.  Could they be trusted to deliver something relevent that could compete with Halo and CoD when over ten years has gone by since then?  It would be a lot to ask for them to get it right in the first try.

I think their best bet is to focus on single player for an FPS.  There is no requirements in having online play with such a title and it would let them do all sorts of creative things without having to worry about weapon balancing.  Bioshock is considered one of the best games of this gen and it has no multiplayer.  I always loved the single player of Goldeneye and Perfect Dark.  Nintendo could get Retro to make a new FPS IP that is just a great FPS game and not some competitive online deathmatch e-sport.  Designing a game for deathmatch is restrictive anyway.  And if they want to have multi as an option who says they can't do co-op?

Who wants Nintendo is just make some space marine bro-shooter anyway?  The whole appeal is that Retro and Nintendo could do something different - just not Mario Paintball please!
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 05, 2011, 06:17:44 PM
Though if they are to just work on the same old bullshit, I suggest Metroid Prime just to get Sakamoto away from the series.  Metroid is at a crossroads now and Retro is the only dev I trust to not completely destroy it.  Star Fox needs saving but Metroid needs it too.  One more Other M and the series could be toast.

I would be happy with them working on Metroid again, but I don't want to see another Metroid Prime game. The series is a trilogy and it should end on that note. However, the Metroid universe still exists and there should be plenty of other NEW things for Samus to do and NEW places for her to go and NEW foes to fight. So yes, there should be another Metroid game, but not another Metroid Prime game.

As for Other M, that piece of trash should be quietly swept under the rug and never spoke of again.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Mop it up on December 05, 2011, 06:27:28 PM
Be that as it may, there needs to be a family friendly FPS game for modern consoles using a modern game engine and graphics.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/958971-water-warfare

Resistance 3.  Seriously, it's not that far off from what you asked for.  Just apparently don't play it with the Move.
I can no longer stand to play shooters with an analogue stick, so it needs to be on the Wii.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: broodwars on December 05, 2011, 06:32:09 PM
Resistance 3.  Seriously, it's not that far off from what you asked for.  Just apparently don't play it with the Move.
I can no longer stand to play shooters with an analogue stick, so it needs to be on the Wii.

Well, the motion control option is available to you with Resistance 3 via the Playstation Move.  Outside of reviews, though, I've just heard little good about it.  But if you have or will get a PS3 sometime in the future, I really recommend the game because it is very much like what you say you want in an FPS.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 06, 2011, 06:07:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r6L7Pkgpas&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r6L7Pkgpas&feature=related)














http://i53.tinypic.com/2ppe8nr.jpg
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 06, 2011, 07:28:14 PM
In a perfect world....
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: the asylum on December 06, 2011, 08:02:41 PM
Wouldn't be crossing my fingers for a KI3 anyway. Not only is Rare just plain not interested in reviving it, I wouldn't want the current Rare touching it with a 30 foot pole
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 06, 2011, 09:08:12 PM
Rare has shifted gears and is now focused more or less exclusively on Kinect. I doubt this will happen anytime soon, but if it did it would be a Kinect game, and therefore play very differently.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: TrueNerd on December 06, 2011, 10:37:30 PM
I demand a Retro developed 2D Metroid. But I suppose that could be for Wii U, Wii Ware, 3DS, whatever. I just demand one. Or six! Six is better.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: yosh on December 06, 2011, 11:04:20 PM
I demand a Retro developed 2D Metroid. But I suppose that could be for Wii U, Wii Ware, 3DS, whatever. I just demand one. Or six! Six is better.


As long as Sakamoto doesn't have a say on what the story is like and they change the voice actors then I'm all for a new 2D Metroid. Maybe they should do a 3D Metroid and 2D Metroid sort of like how there is Super Mario Bros. and then the Mario 3D games.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 06, 2011, 11:20:20 PM
I said it before, but Wayforward should do a Zero Mission style remake of Metroid 2 for the 3DS (with a map on the bottom screen) and then do a brand new 2D Metroid under Nintendo's direct supervision. Then, after completing Star Fox, Retro should do a third person Metroid game that takes what made Other M good and then fixes what made it bad. Think of a Metroid game done in the style of Arkham City, for example.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: nickmitch on December 06, 2011, 11:59:57 PM
I want my Metroid Dread.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 07, 2011, 12:28:50 AM
Didn't people dread the last Metroid that came out?

when is enough enough? :P
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 07, 2011, 02:31:27 AM
They're either masochists, hopefuls, or just plain dumb.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 07, 2011, 03:06:03 AM
Other M was a good game, but after playing it, it would have been an even better game had Reto Studios developed it themselves. I really like those over the should moments in Other M, so if Retro studios did a third person Metroid in the style of Other M and the Prime series then that would be good.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 07, 2011, 03:18:23 AM
Retro should be called upon to make "The Wire" the video game, simultaneously destroying Nintendo's Kiddy image and making the best video game known to man.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 07, 2011, 03:33:41 AM
Some are calling for Retro to reach deep into Nintendo's vault and pull out Star Tropics.

I've never played the game and have no idea what it's about, but it's been described as Zelda meets Uncharted with a Sci-Fi twist.

But honestly, as long as it's a game that Retro wanted to work on then all is good.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 07, 2011, 03:52:20 AM
Speaking of Dread, what if Retro did a Judge Dredd game?

There is going to be a new Judge Dredd movie next year. Obviously there needs to be video games based off that movie license.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 07, 2011, 03:54:23 AM
No matter how awesomely terrible it would turn out, I'd be there day one. DAY ONE.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Sarail on December 07, 2011, 08:35:06 AM
Oh my... I've never thought about Retro attempting a Star Tropics game... but yeah. That would rock so hard. ST is definitely a Zelda/Uncharted type game, and Retro, with its crazy attention to detail, would do a phenomonal job. I'm sure of it.

Bring back Mike, Retro!
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: lolmonade on December 07, 2011, 08:43:04 AM
Mario Paint Wii U.
Mario is Missing 3DS!
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 07, 2011, 09:29:07 AM
Star Tropics makes a lot of sense actually, it has Zelda-esque gameplay, which most Nintendo fans love, the original series was made in the U.S. with Japanese supervision with no aim to sell in Japan. Apparently it sold pretty well, which is odd because it seems pretty obscure. Its a good time for the series to be revived as well because it could look fantastic. It would be good for a creative team too because its almost like starting from scratch, but not. IDK I have post-apocalyptic mach rider floating through my head.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ceric on December 07, 2011, 09:42:18 AM
Some are calling for Retro to reach deep into Nintendo's vault and pull out Star Tropics.

I've never played the game and have no idea what it's about, but it's been described as Zelda meets Uncharted with a Sci-Fi twist.

But honestly, as long as it's a game that Retro wanted to work on then all is good.
I think Star Tropic would be an excellent fit for Retro.

3D Metroid needs to enter it sleep cycle.  I don't think we should see one for a good 5 years at least.  I do think it is a good time for a 3DS Metroid 2D game.  I also don't think Retro should do it.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 07, 2011, 10:30:27 AM
Actually 3D Metroid (Prime Trilogy) should be ported to the 3DS

Visor effects in 3D would look really nice.
scan data can show up on the bottom screen along with enemy info.
I think it would be great.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ian Sane on December 07, 2011, 12:44:42 PM
I really really don't care for Other M but that game didn't suck because of the third person perspective.  It proves that third person 3D Metroid can be done.  It just needs a not-retarded story, non-linear progression, and to fix little nit-picky stuff like how you do not get energy from defeated enemies (that REALLY made the game a pain for me to play) and how you're a complete sitting duck when switching to first person view.  Retro could learn from the very small amount of things Other M did right and make a third person Metroid, which would be different enough from the Prime games to not feel like a rehash.

I like the StarTropics idea though.  If Nintendo is just going to stick with the same old franchises this would be the closest we could get to a new IP from Retro.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 07, 2011, 01:32:42 PM
Why would StarTropics be a good idea? I haven't played it so...
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Lithium on December 07, 2011, 01:41:58 PM
yeah im going to agree with Ian about other M, the main reason that i was disappointed in that game was the un-skipable cut scenes with the horrible dialogue and voice acting. It was like watching a bad anime :/ unfortunately it wasn't funny it just made me depressed (metroid is my favourite franchise) the 1st person was bad but i could deal with that if it wasn't for the cutscenes.

What I would want to see is a game that went back and followed in the footsteps left by Goldeneye and Perfect Dark on the Nintendo 64

I know im late for this reply but you should check out Goldeneye source (http://www.moddb.com/mods/goldeneye-source). It's a faithful remake of the Goldeneye 64 multiplayer and its online.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ceric on December 07, 2011, 02:18:28 PM
Actually 3D Metroid (Prime Trilogy) should be ported to the 3DS

Visor effects in 3D would look really nice.
scan data can show up on the bottom screen along with enemy info.
I think it would be great.
Way too soon.  Near the End of Life for 3DS and thats a Maybe.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 07, 2011, 04:33:15 PM
I like what Kytim suggested about a 2D Metroid game done in a similar fashion as Batman Arkham City/Asylum. That would be awesome. That is exactly how a Metroid game should play, imho.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 07, 2011, 08:36:40 PM
I like what Kytim suggested about a 2D Metroid game done in a similar fashion as Batman Arkham City/Asylum. That would be awesome. That is exactly how a Metroid game should play, imho.

I said a 2D Metroid game developed by Wayforward with Nintendo's supervision and a third person console Metroid developed by Retro in the style of Batman Arkham Asylum/City.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Dasmos on December 08, 2011, 12:45:45 AM
I like what Kytim suggested about a 2D Metroid game done in a similar fashion as Batman Arkham City/Asylum. That would be awesome. That is exactly how a Metroid game should play, imho.

I said a 2D Metroid game developed by Wayforward with Nintendo's supervision and a third person console Metroid developed by Retro in the style of Batman Arkham Asylum/City.

Do you put any serious thought into things you post or do you just pull them out of your ass? Where did you pull WayForward from? Why should they produce a new 2D Metroid? I only know them from Contra 4, but by the looks of things it's the only thing they've produced worth mentioning.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 08, 2011, 12:54:15 AM
WayForward did the recent Metroid-esque Aliens: Infestation for DS, which I think got good reviews.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 08, 2011, 12:59:35 AM
I like what Kytim suggested about a 2D Metroid game done in a similar fashion as Batman Arkham City/Asylum. That would be awesome. That is exactly how a Metroid game should play, imho.

I said a 2D Metroid game developed by Wayforward with Nintendo's supervision and a third person console Metroid developed by Retro in the style of Batman Arkham Asylum/City.

Do you put any serious thought into things you post or do you just pull them out of your ass? Where did you pull WayForward from? Why should they produce a new 2D Metroid? I only know them from Contra 4, but by the looks of things it's the only thing they've produced worth mentioning.

Why don't you get your head out of your ass and not respond to any of my posts if they displease you, Dasmos.
 
As for Wayforward, they have produced a number of quality of 2D sides scrollers for the DS, Wii and 3DS and with Nintendo's help they could make a good 2D Metroid game for the 3DS.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Dasmos on December 08, 2011, 01:39:37 AM
Why don't you get your head out of your ass and not respond to any of my posts if they displease you, Dasmos.

Trust me when I say I leave a lot of them alone.

Quote
As for Wayforward, they have produced a number of quality of 2D sides scrollers for the DS, Wii and 3DS and with Nintendo's help they could make a good 2D Metroid game for the 3DS.

Yeah and Firebrand Games have made a number of good quality racers for Nintendo platforms, but it doesn't mean they should make the next Mario Kart or F-Zero game. It just seems you bring these devs out of left field and just because WayForward probably could make a halfway decent Metroid game doesn't mean they should, especially considering the massive scrutiny the AAA Nintendo franchises garner.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 08, 2011, 01:54:58 AM
Didn't WayForward do the Shantae series that people seem to love?
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 08, 2011, 02:03:26 AM
So this thread got a lot more interesting after today's news.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 08, 2011, 02:06:24 AM
today's news?

what did i miss?
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Dasmos on December 08, 2011, 02:08:02 AM
Miyamoto easing up on his duties, I assume?
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 08, 2011, 02:11:10 AM
If you think about it Samus and Batman are very similar to one another. They are both super heroes equipped with amazing super gadgets and the Arkham City/Asylum games play very similar to what you would expect out of a Metroid game. The setting and everything is very different, but at the heart of it all the gameplay is very similar. Samus is like a futuristic sci-fi female version of Batman.

I remember in the Prime series Samus could call in her spaceship to do a bombing run on some pirates. It reminded me of something similar that happened in a Batman movie once, where he calls in the Batmobile and it is automated. So like I said, very similar. Plus there's also the grappling and swinging around which Samus does with the Grapple beam, and Batman also does that in a more low tech sort of way with his batarang cable thing attached to his belt.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 08, 2011, 02:11:48 AM
Didn't WayForward do the Shantae series that people seem to love?

They make good quality 2D side scrollers, so having them make a Metroid games does not seem that strange to me.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 08, 2011, 08:58:55 PM
Call me crazy, but I would love for Retro to keep on reinventing dead franchises that are quick to make and test their creativity. 

I would love to see them do a Kirby Dream Course sequel.  (Yeah I said it.)

And while they are at it...get Capcom to OK them doing a 3D Mega Man game exclusive to the WiiU.  Revive the franchise only for Nintendo.  (2D is acceptable too.)  Also I would totally revive Mega Man soccer...that game had so much potential, but was poorly executed...I still see gold in that series...please somebody remake it.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 09, 2011, 12:26:08 AM
Making a new Star Tropics and Star Fox game would be nice for Retro to do. Also, I would not mind seeing them make totally redone reimaginings of both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask for the Wii U. Simply remove the N64 architecture from the games and reinsert the Wii U architecture and polish everything with HD visuals.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 09, 2011, 12:38:37 AM
Simply remove the N64 architecture from the games and reinsert the Wii U architecture and polish everything with HD visuals.

None of that makes any sense, though that shouldn't surprise anyone at this point.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 09, 2011, 12:45:04 AM
Kytime:  That would be pretty cool...though I would think mostly pointless...unless they can actually put both of the games together somehow.  Like allow Link to go into a special dream house that takes him into the world of Majora's Mask...You think this Dream World is just that...but when you come out of it...you realize that your items in the real world changed somehow...evolved or graphically became different.  This mechanic could be used introduce item upgrades, into both games, and then of course you change the ending of the games to surprise players.  I would love to see something like if you save the world of Majora's Mask, you release the moon into the real Hyrule, and then you have the last moments of Hyrule a race in time to finish Gannon before the end of the world.  This special difficult ending only happens if you finish the MM dream sequences before defeating Gannondorf...and the surprise boss would be a Majora's Mask infused Ganon/Ganondorf to fight. 
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 09, 2011, 12:48:39 AM
Even if that were going to happen, Retro is not the team that should be handling it.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: King of Twitch on December 09, 2011, 01:01:22 AM
What about if they gave Earthbound to Retro?

Darnit stogi beat me. Ok, Battletoads and Pilotwings then. They could have hang gliding, battling toads.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 09, 2011, 01:09:47 AM
I could totally go for a gritty Battletoads reboot, but I think Rare still owns the rights to the franchise.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 09, 2011, 01:36:54 AM
I could totally go for a gritty Battletoads reboot, but I think Rare still owns the rights to the franchise.

A new Battletoad game would kick ass.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Caterkiller on December 09, 2011, 01:38:56 AM
When was the last Battletoads, SNES? Never beat the that or the first one. Loved playing as a fighting toad though. Remember those names? Zitz, Pimples, Rash! That's nasty!
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 09, 2011, 01:43:27 AM
The last console one was for SNES and Genesis in 1993. They released an arcade game in 1994 though.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 09, 2011, 01:47:16 AM
I will probably get chewed up for this, but Retro Studios should do their own version of Perfect Dark. Not the actual Perfect Dark, of course, but a spiritual successor. I kind of thought that the Conduit series would do this, but it failed and so the opprotunity rests on Retro's shoulders to burden.
 
I apologize for doing this, but the success of Retro Studios makes me kind of mad that Rare was sold to Microsoft because had they stayed with Nintendo then Retro could have taken over some, or all, of their IPs and made them better. Think about what they could have done with Battletoads, Killer Insticnt and Perfect Dark to name a few.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 09, 2011, 03:03:06 AM
I would love a proper Gist sequel.  The first game had a lot of promise, but the developer didn't have the chops to do it proper justice.  Retro still shouldn't do it...but it would be good.

That is the thing, there are lots of games available to be redone well, and a lot of games with great concepts executed poorly.  I wonder if Retro studios wants to make their own IP or if they are happy playing with dream franchises from Nintendo?
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Tamazoid on December 09, 2011, 05:06:49 AM
I will probably get chewed up for this, but Retro Studios should do their own version of Perfect Dark. Not the actual Perfect Dark, of course, but a spiritual successor. I kind of thought that the Conduit series would do this, but it failed and so the opprotunity rests on Retro's shoulders to burden.
 
I apologize for doing this, but the success of Retro Studios makes me kind of mad that Rare was sold to Microsoft because had they stayed with Nintendo then Retro could have taken over some, or all, of their IPs and made them better. Think about what they could have done with Battletoads, Killer Insticnt and Perfect Dark to name a few.


Why? It would have been a bad move business wise if Rare stayed as a second party and started giving their franchises over to Nintendo. Nintendo would have had to buy Rare to gain their IPs.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ian Sane on December 09, 2011, 01:54:23 PM
Those requesting Battletoads, have you gone back on played those games?  Battletoads is ****.  I thought it was cool as a kid as well because I liked the character design and the graphics and the beat-em-up gameplay.  But all the games are ridiculously hard to a point that is near unplayable.  You don't like Battletoads, you THINK you like Battletoads and the games sure look like they would be good but they're not.  They're cheap death bullshit games.

As for the OoT/MM remake - what the ****?  The 3DS remake of OoT wasn't enough for you?  Here at least half of us are talking about Retro making a new IP and you want to waste their time with remakes of old games you can play on the VC any time?!  Why the hell would Retro need to do this?  Fuckin' interns fresh out of DigiPen could do that.

As for Rare I maintain my opinion that the reason they suck now is because they're not working with Nintendo anymore.  The Rare/Nintendo team was what mattered.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 09, 2011, 02:27:28 PM
As for Rare I maintain my opinion that the reason they suck now is because they're not working with Nintendo anymore.  The Rare/Nintendo team was what mattered.

That's part of it, but it's also because most of the people who made them great back in the day have left the company and they just don't have the talent they used to.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ceric on December 09, 2011, 02:40:54 PM
You know does Nintendo have a good beat 'em up franchise in there fold anymore?  I wouldn't mind a good one.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 09, 2011, 02:42:43 PM
They could reboot Urban Champion like they're doing with Kid Icarus.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ian Sane on December 09, 2011, 06:30:04 PM
You know does Nintendo have a good beat 'em up franchise in there fold anymore?  I wouldn't mind a good one.

Does ANY company have a good beat 'em up franchise anymore?  Capcom has one of the best in Final Fight and the most recent game in that series is a complete joke.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 09, 2011, 06:42:41 PM
How could you not like this game?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4HtkomZpA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4HtkomZpA)
 
Perhaps Retro Studios could supplement the lost workers at Silicone Knights to produce a Eternal Darkness sequel?
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 09, 2011, 06:44:15 PM
How could you not like this game?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4HtkomZpA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4HtkomZpA)
 
Perhaps Retro Studios could supplement the lost workers at Silicone Knights to produce a Eternal Darkness sequel?

Denniswith2playboybunnies.jpg
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 09, 2011, 06:47:18 PM
I meant Silicon Knights.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: nickmitch on December 09, 2011, 06:57:09 PM
Freudian slip.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ian Sane on December 09, 2011, 07:04:03 PM
How could you not like this game?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4HtkomZpA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4HtkomZpA)

I have Battlemaniacs.  Every playthrough works the same.

1. Beat first beat-em-up level which is the most fun level in the entire game.
2. Beat decending vertical shaft level which is not too bad.  Note that the game is following the template of the original NES Battletoads to a TEE here.  It is incredibly lazy design for a sequel.
3. Get stuck on stupid speeder bike level.

It never EVER changes.  When I play Final Fight or Streets of Rage the game doesn't suddenly put me in some obstacle course with completely unrelated gameplay that requires split-second perfect timing to complete.  The skills required to complete this aren't even related to the skills required to succeed in a beat-em-up.  Imagine if in the middle of Street Fighter you suddenly had to succeed at a shmup.  And what is really frustrating is that everyone hated the speeder bike bullshit in the orignal game and yet Rare kept bringing it back!

Battletoads has the basic gameplay of a very enjoyable beat-em-up but sucks because of constant gimmick levels which require expert timing and are completely unrelated to beat-em-up gameplay.  It's actually a lot like how Donkey Kong 64 is an enjoyable platformer ruined by doodad collecting run amok.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Caterkiller on December 09, 2011, 08:43:09 PM
How could you not like this game?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4HtkomZpA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4HtkomZpA)

I have Battlemaniacs.  Every playthrough works the same.

1. Beat first beat-em-up level which is the most fun level in the entire game.
2. Beat decending vertical shaft level which is not too bad.  Note that the game is following the template of the original NES Battletoads to a TEE here.  It is incredibly lazy design for a sequel.
3. Get stuck on stupid speeder bike level.

It never EVER changes.  When I play Final Fight or Streets of Rage the game doesn't suddenly put me in some obstacle course with completely unrelated gameplay that requires split-second perfect timing to complete.  The skills required to complete this aren't even related to the skills required to succeed in a beat-em-up.  Imagine if in the middle of Street Fighter you suddenly had to succeed at a shmup.  And what is really frustrating is that everyone hated the speeder bike bullshit in the orignal game and yet Rare kept bringing it back!

Battletoads has the basic gameplay of a very enjoyable beat-em-up but sucks because of constant gimmick levels which require expert timing and are completely unrelated to beat-em-up gameplay.  It's actually a lot like how Donkey Kong 64 is an enjoyable platformer ruined by doodad collecting run amok.

Good god! I never realized! Kytim that link you posted makes me take back my comment that was pro Battle Toads a page or so back. I'm so glad to have seen the rest of that game, but that was the devils trial! For one I realize the stages go on toooo long and it's nearly impossible to memorize because of how fast the obstacles come at you are. Who ever decided on that crap should get a huge punch in the eye! Battle Toads needs to stay dead!
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 09, 2011, 08:49:12 PM
Couldn't Battletoads just be made easier if it were ever revived? Just because the old games were hard doesn't necessarily mean a reboot has to be.

Anyway, why are we discussing Battletoads in this thread anyway? That was a Rare title. Retro is not Rare. I don't know why everyone is mixing them up. If Battletoads ever did come back it would be an Xbox exclusive because they are the ones who now own Rare and its IPs.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: King of Twitch on December 09, 2011, 09:03:07 PM
Ok, then what about a Battletoads Sports Resort? They could bring back Left Field to take care of it.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 10, 2011, 12:12:19 AM
Then I will go back to my original idea.  Kirby Dreamland.

Motion Control Golf Game, with special power ups and fun platform-puzzle like elements.

Bonus games could include a Kirby pool game and Kirby bowling game.  These of course will need Motion plus controls, and be designed in such away that you could activate power ups and such after the initial motion control.  I think this game could be a blast to play.

OH...or Mega Man Soccer, where you players have life bars, regular bullets and limited special attacks, it plays like a Mutant League game...but with Mega Man robots.  Great idea....I'll take two.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 10, 2011, 01:35:26 AM
Western developers and gamers tend to be attracted to games that have plenty of action, so whatever games and original IPs that Retro develops in the future will most likely be action oriented. As strange as it sounds, I actually like the prospects of them doing a Star Fox game because the potential for a lot of action in a space shooter is pretty reasonable.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Tamazoid on December 10, 2011, 05:04:28 AM
Anyway, why are we discussing Battletoads in this thread anyway? That was a Rare title. Retro is not Rare. I don't know why everyone is mixing them up. If Battletoads ever did come back it would be an Xbox exclusive because they are the ones who now own Rare and its IPs.


No one is mixing up Rare and Retro. Kytim said imagine if Retro had access to Rare's IPs and then Insanolord said he would like a 'gritty reboot of Battletoads." but that Rare still held the IP.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 10, 2011, 08:40:50 PM
How could you not like this game?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4HtkomZpA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4HtkomZpA)

I have Battlemaniacs.  Every playthrough works the same.

1. Beat first beat-em-up level which is the most fun level in the entire game.
2. Beat decending vertical shaft level which is not too bad.  Note that the game is following the template of the original NES Battletoads to a TEE here.  It is incredibly lazy design for a sequel.
3. Get stuck on stupid speeder bike level.

Ahahaha...so true. I've never EVER gotten past level three. Still, I did like that game, as impossible as it might be. It had a certain style.

But let's be real, Killer Instinct was a way better game anyway.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 10, 2011, 09:00:55 PM
Killer Instict was an unbalanced Knockoff of Mortal Kombat

Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 10, 2011, 09:02:08 PM
And it was awesome.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 10, 2011, 09:13:47 PM
Killer Instict was an unbalanced Knockoff of Mortal Kombat



Isn't Mortal Kombat just an unbalanced knockoff of Street Fighter II?
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 10, 2011, 10:20:54 PM
All 2D fighters are a knock off of Nintendo's Urban Champion and Kung-Fu games for the NES. Nintendo is the ones who invented the genre. Too bad they abandoned it in later years.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 10, 2011, 11:14:29 PM
Every single video game ever made is just some kind of knockoff of Spacewar.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 11, 2011, 01:51:16 AM
now everyone is just trolling....

so wasn't there a time when Nintendo just let Rare make up franchises and 40% of them became beloved?
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: nickmitch on December 11, 2011, 02:01:03 AM
Back to Battle
How could you not like this game?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4HtkomZpA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4HtkomZpA)

I have Battlemaniacs.  Every playthrough works the same.

1. Beat first beat-em-up level which is the most fun level in the entire game.
2. Beat decending vertical shaft level which is not too bad.  Note that the game is following the template of the original NES Battletoads to a TEE here.  It is incredibly lazy design for a sequel.
3. Get stuck on stupid speeder bike level.

Ahahaha...so true. I've never EVER gotten past level three. Still, I did like that game, as impossible as it might be. It had a certain style.

I think most people who love the game are really just in love with the style. I keep thinking that I love Battletoads, but whenever I try to play it I just get pissed off and rage quit.
The style makes it worth revisiting, but to recreate the gameplay would only appeal to the MOST extreme gamers while toning it down would be being unfaithful to the franchise. Kind of a lose-lose.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 11, 2011, 06:01:10 PM
Battle Toads was the cool Ninja Turtles back in the day.  It is equivalent to Mario and Sonic.  The Ninja Turtle games were better than the Battle Toads games, but the Battle Toads had attitude and were just more awesome to be.  Just the same, the Mario games were always better than the Sonic games.  (There is not a single Sonic game better than any main Mario game entry.)  But Sonic was the fresh cool kid on the block. 

I remember everybody wanting a Ninja Turtles vs. Battle Toads game.

So to merge the Battle Toads discussion and bring this thread back on topic.  I say, Retro should create a new IP and use an existing franchise that would be better than Ninja Turtles and Battle Toads combined...I am talking about a Story driven Usagi Yojimbo 3D Samurai game. 

You can take stories straight from the comics which have a huge variety of stories from silly, to horror, to historical.  Gameplay from duels, to stealth, to taking on huge armies, and monsters.  This game is the game I want to see made....since an animated cartoon series is unlikely...finally all this can be done and keep the game al ages appropriate because how Usagi Yojimbo handles death in the comic.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 11, 2011, 11:01:06 PM
Why should Retro revive a franchise owned by Microsoft? They don't need to anyway, because they could make a game almost exactly the same, and all they would have to do is give it a different name and have different characters. So instead of Battle Toads, they could make a game called Combat Frogs and it could be more or less the same thing, but it would be a new IP which Microsoft doesn't own and therefore Nintendo/Retro wouldn't have to pay licensing fees or whatever.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 11, 2011, 11:21:20 PM
I'm all for combat frogs, or War Pigs
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 13, 2011, 03:31:44 PM
*precautionary measure*
Kytim: Contain yourself


Zelda Wii U: Retro to the Rescue!? (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=36419.msg710546#msg710546)
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 13, 2011, 04:18:09 PM
Only after making the next console Star Fox.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 13, 2011, 05:37:21 PM
Yes, your majesty.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 13, 2011, 06:05:27 PM
I would also rather see Retro do Star Fox than Zelda. I'm not sure I'd have more confidence with any other developer doing it (well, if they could convince Treasure to do it that might change). Although I'm probably in a very small minority in that if I had to choose straight up between getting an all-time great Zelda game and an all-time great Star Fox game I'd go with the latter.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: nickmitch on December 13, 2011, 06:19:21 PM
I think giving handheld Zeldas to other devs, is ok. They've done it before with success. It'd be interesting to see what they'd come up with to shake up the formula.
Though, I'd rather see Metroid V or Star Fox in that order and only Star Fox if it's online.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 13, 2011, 06:28:43 PM
I think giving handheld Zeldas to other devs, is ok. They've done it before with success. It'd be interesting to see what they'd come up with to shake up the formula.
Though, I'd rather see Metroid V or Star Fox in that order and only Star Fox if it's online.

Third person Metroid game developed by Retro.
 
When Samus changes her visor vision the screen on the Umote changes to whatever setting has been chosen and the player can still see normally on the TV.

Does anyone have any ideas on how Retro could make Star Fox Wii U?
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 13, 2011, 07:15:06 PM
They could start it off with a cutscene showing how Fox McCloud got into some kind of accident that required his legs be amputated, which explains why he will never be able to do anything on foot ever again.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 13, 2011, 07:26:01 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Star Fox should increase it's sense of speed. I want to be whizzing through canyons on some 3 sunned planet, catching flack from enemies in front and behind me as I race through rock slides desperately training to flee the planet before it blows up.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 13, 2011, 07:29:47 PM
The next console Star Fox game needs to have highly detailed outer space levels complete with very detailed Arwings and character designs.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 13, 2011, 07:31:48 PM
That's the last thing it needs.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Lithium on December 13, 2011, 07:58:13 PM
i would be really happy if the next starfox game adopted the puppet art style they had for the posters (http://images.wikia.com/starfox/images/0/0e/Star_Fox_Poster_-_Small.jpg) back in the day. Just because the starfox story is already silly and making it seem serious like they have for the last few games is really cheesy. Might as well go for intentional camp than unintentional.


yeah i know it would never happen but a man can dream XD

I guess I'll just settle for this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_0unp84BKc)
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 13, 2011, 08:43:37 PM
They could start it off with a cutscene showing how Fox McCloud got into some kind of accident that required his legs be amputated, which explains why he will never to be able to do anything on foot ever again.

HAHA LOL +1

i would be really happy if the next starfox game adopted the puppet art style they had for the posters (http://images.wikia.com/starfox/images/0/0e/Star_Fox_Poster_-_Small.jpg) back in the day. Just because the starfox story is already silly and making it seem serious like they have for the last few games is really cheesy. Might as well go for intentional camp than unintentional.


yeah i know it would never happen but a man can dream XD

I guess I'll just settle for this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_0unp84BKc)

I would LOVE it if they could do the poster art in realtime for Wii U

& wow at that video... The Fantastic Mr. StarFox.
Not sure if I'd watch that or not.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: nickmitch on December 13, 2011, 09:24:26 PM
A sci-fi game with that kind of art style would kick so much ass.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Shorty McNostril on December 13, 2011, 09:45:18 PM
I would rather them do another Rogue Squadron personally.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 13, 2011, 10:02:50 PM
Why, exactly? It doesn't seem to me like it makes sense to give yourself less creative freedom and  cost Nintendo money by licensing Star Wars.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: nickmitch on December 13, 2011, 10:12:37 PM
It would sell systems.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 13, 2011, 10:26:09 PM
I don't think it would do significantly better in that regard than an internally developed Star Fox would.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: broodwars on December 13, 2011, 10:31:36 PM
Seriously, I don't think Star Fox can be a system seller anymore in its current design.  If you haven't noticed, rail shooters haven't been in style for a long time.  None of the previous Star Fox releases after Star Fox 64 did well as far as I know (though I'm sure the 3DS port did alright considering people didn't have much else to buy on that system).  House of the Dead Overkill wasn't a huge seller, and Dead Space Extraction really wasn't one either.  Sin & Punishment 2 bombed spectacularly, and while Umbrella Chronicles did alright its sequel Darkside Chronicles did not.  And that's just looking at games on Nintendo consoles.  It's been rough for the genre on the HD consoles as well.

For Star Fox to be relevant again, I think the developer's going to have to take a serious look at how they can make the franchise work in essentially all "All Range mode".  Personally, I'd love to put the old Factor 5 guys on that project, but I think they scattered to the 4 winds a long time ago.  In any case, I'd rather put a team on reviving that series that actually has experience with flight-based games, and that's not Retro Studios yet.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 13, 2011, 10:50:19 PM
I don't think Star Fox is a system seller, I'm just saying I don't think Rogue Squadron is much of one either.

And sure, Retro doesn't have experience with flight games, but they didn't have experience with platformers either and that didn't seem to be a problem.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: broodwars on December 13, 2011, 10:58:18 PM
I don't think Star Fox is a system seller, I'm just saying I don't think Rogue Squadron is much of one either.

And sure, Retro doesn't have experience with flight games, but they didn't have experience with platformers either and that didn't seem to be a problem.

True, but they were at least familiar with the fundamentals of good platforming with the Metroid Prime series (which has more than its share of platforming).  A space-based arcade shooter is a completely different experience.  Maybe I'd be ok with it if they first made another Metroid game that had sequences where you piloted Samus' ship in combat.  That would be a good way to get experience working on that type of game so they could make a good Star Fox reboot.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 14, 2011, 04:17:27 AM
yeah, the idea of rail shooters kinda seems old to me. I like it when you can fly anywhere. My favorite game Star Wars game was shadows of the Empire. I don't mind multiple game situations as long as their fun. Yes, the puppet thing would be awesome. Also that starfox background in that poster has the same terrain as my super metroid poster.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 14, 2011, 08:16:00 AM
How about a game that is a persuado all range mode.  The level moves you forward, but gibes you more freedom to move about the level.

Or levels with very tightly controlled closed in arenas to do battle in.  The all Range modes work because you were in a fairly limited area...the rail shooters work because you can push level design as an obstacle course with guns. 
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 14, 2011, 12:27:28 PM
Why would you want to change the best part of Star Fox (i.e. the on-rail parts)? Sure, everyone enjoyed taking out StarWolf (or trying to) during the Independence Day like mission in StarFox 64, but the meat and potatoes of the games was flying through space debris and asteroid fields as you shot enemies or blew up obstructions so you could "USE THE BOOST TO GET THROUGH!"

That's StarFox. That's why it was so fun. Changing it would be change the game.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: broodwars on December 14, 2011, 01:33:24 PM
Why would you want to change the best part of Star Fox (i.e. the on-rail parts)? Sure, everyone enjoyed taking out StarWolf (or trying to) during the Independence Day like mission in StarFox 64, but the meat and potatoes of the games was flying through space debris and asteroid fields as you shot enemies or blew up obstructions so you could "USE THE BOOST TO GET THROUGH!"

That's StarFox. That's why it was so fun. Changing it would be change the game.

Yeah, and that design was fine...15+ years ago for the first 2 games when our consoles really couldn't do 3D polygonal space combat well.  But the industry has changed, and we can do better than the On-Rails Shooter now.  Star Fox needs to get with the times (especially since Rail Shooters don't sell anymore), and the Rogue Squadron games were a good example of how to do so.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ian Sane on December 14, 2011, 01:46:43 PM
I find that Rogue Leader gives me the same sort of thrill that Star Fox 64 does so a Star Fox in that style would work fine.  The problem with the recent games has been more of the stupid design to get out of the vehicles.  Hell Rogue Squadron 3 had that problem as well.  Devs don't like people staying in vehicles for some reason.

I don't see however why free range and rail levels can't co-exist.  You can make it mostly free range and then have times where Fox flies into a space station that puts the level on rails.  Think of the Space Armada level in Star Fox.  That can only be done on rails.  Same with the train level in Star Fox 64.  The devs can be smart about it and not make a purely on-rails shooter but put in on-rails gameplay in many sections.  Some level concepts favour free range and some favour on-rails.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: King of Twitch on December 14, 2011, 01:59:00 PM
Retro is great at making lush, beautiful environments to explore and organic looking enemies to blast. In SF you'll just be looking at them out the window at 250mph, thinking of Krystal. What's the point?
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 14, 2011, 04:58:43 PM
Thi is what I had in mind for Star Fox Wii U:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE6kyoY6KGc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE6kyoY6KGc)
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 14, 2011, 05:15:08 PM
that looks like the shadow of the empire flight level.


it would be cool if there were worlds that were round that you could fly back and forth to, a whole solar system full of interesting stuff. There would be races from one place to another place, and event you had to participate in. If you wanted you could land your ARwing and walk around the animal city. So yeah GTA meets Starfox.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: TrueNerd on December 14, 2011, 05:29:17 PM
Miyamoto chimed in on this discussion today. He said Retro could make a Zelda game. I'd be in for that.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Adrock on December 14, 2011, 05:38:04 PM
Star Fox could stand to be less serious and should steer away from realistic graphics as much as possible.

I liked the ideas that suggested by Lithium a page back. The puppet style art direction would make Star Fox stand out. It'd be a good way of semi-rebooting the series. And if Nintendo could find the talent to pull off a Fantastic Mr. Star Fox or a self-referencing parody, they should totally go for it. At this point, I'm pretty much willing to accept anything that isn't furry melodrama.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ian Sane on December 14, 2011, 05:46:02 PM
Perm, are you honestly suggesting the ability to get out and walk around as a good idea?  The second Fox steps his foot outside of his ship the game is fucked!
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 14, 2011, 06:25:47 PM
The only time Star Fox should get out of his ship is between missions on the Great Fox. I imgaine him walking around the hanger bay where the Arwings and other vehicules are stored. This is where Fox will speak to his crew mates.
 
Here are some of my ideas for the game:
 
The Arwings should be customizable in a similar manner as th karts in Mario Kart.
 
There should be a ton of side missions where Fox can earn money to enhance the weapons, shields and features of the Star Fox team's Arwings.
 
Diverse levels that take advantage of the horse power of the Wii U.
 
Motion Plus integration in some manner.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 14, 2011, 06:26:17 PM
yes, i am serious. People just try to make the same games over and over again, and there's little depth beyond the first one. Japanese companies like Namco will do this thing where they try to add something and terribly fail at it. They do it on such a small scale that its just a passable stupid level. I think about making a Star Fox game. I throw 90% of the ideas ever used in Star Fox, and I think about what it would be like if Star Fox was never made and we had the opportunity to make a sci-fi game about anthropomorphic animals with a star wars influence. How would you create that world. You take for instance Star Fox Aventures, that wasn't really a star fox game to begin with, that was Dinosaur Planet with sheeps clothing.

What interests me is why are the Animals at war with the simians, what are the simians doing to take over the galaxy, what are the plotting, is there some sort of political lean? What really makes Andros evil? How did this come to be. Is there some sort of freedom fighting resistance? This is a futuristic setting, so what is the underground of the anti-simian movement like? You could probably draw some parralels to BG&E. Then you have the original game and its just space flights, its essentially 1942 with a different perspective, and while this is fun, its stale. What really needs to change is the game goes from being this feeble universe of point a to point B to this epic massive dense thing.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 14, 2011, 07:06:32 PM
You are thinking about it like a script-writer and not a game designer. A game designer shouldn't give two shits why Andros is evil. He shouldn't give a **** about politics.

just sayin
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 14, 2011, 07:11:50 PM
Minor detail
But should we really call Starfox on-rails? As it is more a corridor flying game.
It's like the old top down shooters only in full 3D.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 14, 2011, 07:14:10 PM
If Retro is developing a Star Fox game then they should allow the option of switching the voice overs to the gibberish found in the original Star Fox game.
 
ROB 64 should be changed to "ROB U" for the Wii U game. ;D
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 14, 2011, 07:32:28 PM
Being developed for a HD system, I would really want whoever makes Star Fox for the Wii U to design the Arwings in terms of actual aerospace pyhsics to feel like actual aircraft. Authenticity is what i am getting at.
 

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100409215325/starfox/images/9/91/Star_Fox_team_classic_Command.png) (http://images.wikia.com/starfox/images/9/91/Star_Fox_team_classic_Command.png)

Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 14, 2011, 07:39:18 PM
Yeah, I know I am the minority, but I don't care anything about any story in a game.  I want to play an awesome game...and if the game if fun, I am happy.

With Star Fox, I agree it is more a sidescrolling shooter in 3D, and that gameplay really allows for a very specific level design idea.  Yeah...its on rails, but it isn't like House of Dead were you are only shooting...you are doing alot of maneuvers. 

However...making a game that allows you to do more moves while onrail might be important. 

The problem with Rogue Squadron type games is that it is easy to get lost and lost the point of a level...or just get side tracked.  The game works great when all you have to do is kill things and the experience is awesome...but when you have to do other missions it breaks down.

This is where tight level design and player limitation actually comes in handy.  For instance if you make an escort level limit your distance from the target you are protecting it makes it easier to make tighter more focused enemy placement and allows the player to feel more in control.

Another problem with space shooters is the problem with blind spots.  In First Person Shooters, blindspots don't matter as much because you are not always moving forward, but in a flight game you are always moving, and can easily crash or get lost in the action. 

Star Fox's designs actually avoid most of these problems.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ian Sane on December 14, 2011, 08:01:09 PM
yes, i am serious. People just try to make the same games over and over again, and there's little depth beyond the first one. Japanese companies like Namco will do this thing where they try to add something and terribly fail at it. They do it on such a small scale that its just a passable stupid level. I think about making a Star Fox game. I throw 90% of the ideas ever used in Star Fox, and I think about what it would be like if Star Fox was never made and we had the opportunity to make a sci-fi game about anthropomorphic animals with a star wars influence. How would you create that world. You take for instance Star Fox Aventures, that wasn't really a star fox game to begin with, that was Dinosaur Planet with sheeps clothing.

What interests me is why are the Animals at war with the simians, what are the simians doing to take over the galaxy, what are the plotting, is there some sort of political lean? What really makes Andros evil? How did this come to be. Is there some sort of freedom fighting resistance? This is a futuristic setting, so what is the underground of the anti-simian movement like? You could probably draw some parralels to BG&E. Then you have the original game and its just space flights, its essentially 1942 with a different perspective, and while this is fun, its stale. What really needs to change is the game goes from being this feeble universe of point a to point B to this epic massive dense thing.

You just look at the game with different priorities then.  I look at Star Fox as this game where you're a pilot and you and your crew are involved in dog fights in a space setting.  I don't think too much about the specifics of the world as that is of minimal relevance to the gameplay.  Star Fox is essentially a shmup.  I play it to fly around in a spaceship blasting the crap out of enemies trying to kill me.  I like the characters and the setting and don't think those should be glossed over but the gameplay is all about spaceship combat.  That's what is necessary to make it a Star Fox game.

People talk a lot about the characters in F-Zero and how they should branch them out.  I think they can do it in a spin-off but F-Zero isn't about the characters, it's about high-speed hovercar racing.  I don't really care about Captain Falcon's bounty hunter history.  He's just a cool visual design for a pilot for the hovercar I'm racing with.  The racing is what makes the game.

If you focus too much on the characters and story you get OTHER M!  Sakamoto sees Metroid as Samus Aran and Ridley and the space pirates.  I see Metroid as a game where the world is one big area that you explore in a non-linear manner, fighting enemies, uncovering secrets and gaining new abilities that allow you to explore further areas.  Sakamoto focused on the characters and story and made a Metroid game I thought was complete horseshit because its gameplay had very little connection to the rest of the series.  As a result it completely missed the whole point of why I and many others like the series in the first place.

If you want to focus on story elements books and movies are the place to go.  Gameplay is key so when I think of videogame ideas it's always gameplay first.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: King of Twitch on December 14, 2011, 08:16:43 PM
Jeeze if all the fanboys' ideas are this bad, just imagine what Nintendo will do to it. Next they'll be doki doki panicking the franchise all over again.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Lithium on December 14, 2011, 10:09:02 PM
You are thinking about it like a script-writer and not a game designer. A game designer shouldn't give two shits why Andros is evil. He shouldn't give a **** about politics.

just sayin


Well I agree in that Starfox shouldn't be taken seriously, but that aproach isn't a bad thing for a game designer to have if he/she is setting out to do a serious game. I can count all the videogame stories I actually cared about with my fingers.


but back on topic taking that approach to the story is better suited to games that already take themselves seriously. The main reason Other M bombed wasnt because it had a story it was because Sakamoto is a horrible scriptwriter.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: broodwars on December 14, 2011, 10:35:04 PM
but back on topic taking that approach to the story is better suited to games that already take themselves seriously. The main reason Other M bombed wasnt because it had a story it was because Sakamoto is a horrible scriptwriter.

Precisely.  I wouldn't have minded Other M's story if it were actually good and well-told.  But it's not.  In fact, it's one of the worst examples of video game storytelling I've ever seen, let alone what it does to Samus Aran as a character.

I thought the story of the original Star Fox/Star Fox 64 (since Star Fox 64 is basically a remake of the original Star Fox) was merely ok in its simplistic, archetypical nature.  But after Star Fox 64, the entire franchise just went off the deep end story-wise, seemingly becoming more about Furry Fan-fiction than actual storytelling. 

The series needs to get back to basics with actual storytelling that's well-done, but not too forceful.  As much as I'm into the intricacies of Sci-Fi universes and "Epic G-damn Space Opera" in particular, that's probably too much for most people.  I'd settle for a well-told story that doesn't just feel like background noise, which is how the first two games felt.

And for the love of all that is holy, re-cast Slippy with a voice that's not incredibly obnoxious for once.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Caliban on December 14, 2011, 11:11:46 PM
Retro is great at making lush, beautiful environments to explore and organic looking enemies to blast. In SF you'll just be looking at them out the window at 250mph, thinking of Krystal. What's the point?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


Being developed for a HD system, I would really want whoever makes Star Fox for the Wii U to design the Arwings in terms of actual aerospace pyhsics to feel like actual aircraft. Authenticity is what i am getting at.

Oh lord.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: MegaByte on December 14, 2011, 11:56:03 PM
Yeah, and that design was fine...15+ years ago for the first 2 games when our consoles really couldn't do 3D polygonal space combat well.  But the industry has changed, and we can do better than the On-Rails Shooter now.  Star Fox needs to get with the times (especially since Rail Shooters don't sell anymore), and the Rogue Squadron games were a good example of how to do so.
Star Fox's predecessors were full 3D. There are other outlets for 3D space battles. Star Fox was always best as a rail shooter.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: broodwars on December 15, 2011, 12:03:10 AM
Star Fox's predecessors were full 3D. There are other outlets for 3D space battles.

Oh really? Where?  Who is doing full 3D arcade-style space combat games anymore?  I can't think of any made after the Rogue Squadron games.  I think even the Wing Commander games were done by then.  Some companies still make 3D aerial combat games like the Ace Combat or HAWXS series, but I can't stand how those games control and I can't think of any space-based ones.

Quote
Star Fox was always best as a rail shooter.

Nintendo sucking at making full 3D combat scenarios does not equate to rail shooters being the superior gameplay style.  I'll take just about any Rogue Leader stage over any Star Fox 64 Rail Shooter level.  Rail Shooters have run their course.  They're fine for the off-hand level or so for a change of pace, but like many Nintendo franchises Star Fox needs to move forward.  It can't always be the 2-hour long (at best) Rail Shooter with questionable replay value anymore.  There's no value in that in today's market.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: MegaByte on December 15, 2011, 12:06:41 AM
There are lots of flight combat games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_flight_simulator_games#Space_combat_simulator_games), especially on PC. X-Scape, though that's a little different. Ace Combat. It's not space, but same thing (and also the part of Star Fox Assault that sucked). Nobody else does rail shooters. Hardly anybody ever did rail shooters. Nintendo hasn't shown what a good rail shooter is anytime recently. They haven't run their course.
Edit: Before anybody mentions it, Sin & Punishment isn't the same thing.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 15, 2011, 01:22:01 AM
yes, i am serious. People just try to make the same games over and over again, and there's little depth beyond the first one. Japanese companies like Namco will do this thing where they try to add something and terribly fail at it. They do it on such a small scale that its just a passable stupid level. I think about making a Star Fox game. I throw 90% of the ideas ever used in Star Fox, and I think about what it would be like if Star Fox was never made and we had the opportunity to make a sci-fi game about anthropomorphic animals with a star wars influence. How would you create that world. You take for instance Star Fox Aventures, that wasn't really a star fox game to begin with, that was Dinosaur Planet with sheeps clothing.

What interests me is why are the Animals at war with the simians, what are the simians doing to take over the galaxy, what are the plotting, is there some sort of political lean? What really makes Andros evil? How did this come to be. Is there some sort of freedom fighting resistance? This is a futuristic setting, so what is the underground of the anti-simian movement like? You could probably draw some parralels to BG&E. Then you have the original game and its just space flights, its essentially 1942 with a different perspective, and while this is fun, its stale. What really needs to change is the game goes from being this feeble universe of point a to point B to this epic massive dense thing.

You just look at the game with different priorities then.  I look at Star Fox as this game where you're a pilot and you and your crew are involved in dog fights in a space setting.  I don't think too much about the specifics of the world as that is of minimal relevance to the gameplay.  Star Fox is essentially a shmup.  I play it to fly around in a spaceship blasting the crap out of enemies trying to kill me.  I like the characters and the setting and don't think those should be glossed over but the gameplay is all about spaceship combat.  That's what is necessary to make it a Star Fox game.

People talk a lot about the characters in F-Zero and how they should branch them out.  I think they can do it in a spin-off but F-Zero isn't about the characters, it's about high-speed hovercar racing.  I don't really care about Captain Falcon's bounty hunter history.  He's just a cool visual design for a pilot for the hovercar I'm racing with.  The racing is what makes the game.

If you focus too much on the characters and story you get OTHER M!  Sakamoto sees Metroid as Samus Aran and Ridley and the space pirates.  I see Metroid as a game where the world is one big area that you explore in a non-linear manner, fighting enemies, uncovering secrets and gaining new abilities that allow you to explore further areas.  Sakamoto focused on the characters and story and made a Metroid game I thought was complete horseshit because its gameplay had very little connection to the rest of the series.  As a result it completely missed the whole point of why I and many others like the series in the first place.

If you want to focus on story elements books and movies are the place to go.  Gameplay is key so when I think of videogame ideas it's always gameplay first.

im not into telling story through cinemas, im more into ubiquitous story telling. Like metroid prime or portal. Theres story all around you, you just have to look for it. Also the gta series in the way it sets up missions for you to do. Say your just talking to some rabbits on this one planet trying to collect some money to buy a part for your ship, and then they tell you theres a secret item that they want captured from this floating asteroid. The only problem is to get this item on the astroid, your going to have to fly through space to the meteor and then through a cave system of the meteor. When you start to fly there you see that you have some competition and they become your enemies, it turns into a regular starfox mission. Not big cinema type stuff, kinda like when your playing zelda and you talk to the marathon runner and he bets you that he can beat you to the bridge, except instead of walking and riding epona to the bridge you take an ARwing through the solar system.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 15, 2011, 07:47:41 AM
I like what Ian had to say about integrating online rail shooters and free range shooters.  Nintendo did that already, but always just as a single level or an end level scenario.  How about having a game that Incorporates both seamlessly and creates multiple instances of it.

One level could be a race to a hidden base...as you go you find out that someone is stalking you or trying to stop you.  This battles starts as an inclusion to the on rails section...but a trap is set against you and you are now in a fight for your life.  You go into a free range battle and as you overcome the battle...you damage your attackers ship...and they begin to flee, into a nearby asteroid field.  You chase after them shifting back into an on rails race through the asteroid system.  The battle ends in a boss fight in traditional Star Fox manner. 

Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Caterkiller on December 15, 2011, 01:14:36 PM
Being developed for a HD system, I would really want whoever makes Star Fox for the Wii U to design the Arwings in terms of actual aerospace pyhsics to feel like actual aircraft. Authenticity is what i am getting at.
 

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100409215325/starfox/images/9/91/Star_Fox_team_classic_Command.png) (http://images.wikia.com/starfox/images/9/91/Star_Fox_team_classic_Command.png)



I don't think you know what your asking for.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 15, 2011, 03:46:12 PM
another thing to compare starfox to is Diddy Kong Racing vs Mario Kart. Diddy Kong racing has a hub system which mario kart doesn't have and doesn't really need, but it was cool in DKR. In starfox you have this system of selecting levels mario bro 3 style, which was fine back in the day, but I prefer bigger more thought out worlds. Nintendo dropped the hub system in Galaxy 2, but the game was enormous anyhow. I just think some fundamentals of star fox have to change otherwise it will be the same game over and over and over. Its almost a racing game without the racing, so the incentive to keep playing is broken.

heres a scenario
Your on this planet with a massive city, and its rush hour. You have to deliver a package in a certain time limit. You get in your arwing, but theres all these flying cars. This is still on the rabbit planet. So many rabbits. Your going to have to weave through the city and not run into any cars or buildings. You can't fly to a certain altitude because the package will spoil and you got 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Lithium on December 16, 2011, 12:54:09 PM
I like what Ian had to say about integrating online rail shooters and free range shooters.  Nintendo did that already, but always just as a single level or an end level scenario.  How about having a game that Incorporates both seamlessly and creates multiple instances of it.

One level could be a race to a hidden base...as you go you find out that someone is stalking you or trying to stop you.  This battles starts as an inclusion to the on rails section...but a trap is set against you and you are now in a fight for your life.  You go into a free range battle and as you overcome the battle...you damage your attackers ship...and they begin to flee, into a nearby asteroid field.  You chase after them shifting back into an on rails race through the asteroid system.  The battle ends in a boss fight in traditional Star Fox manner.


that actually sounds like a good idea
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 17, 2011, 04:24:56 AM
Being developed for a HD system, I would really want whoever makes Star Fox for the Wii U to design the Arwings in terms of actual aerospace pyhsics to feel like actual aircraft. Authenticity is what i am getting at.

Why should they be designed like real aircraft? There is no air in space, so there is no point in designing something to be aerodynamic. Whether the Airwings are designed like an F-16 or like a Borg Cube it would make no difference in a vacuum.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 17, 2011, 04:33:08 AM
yes and no, Arwings can fly to and from space, so an Arwing has to be aerodynamic whenever it flies in atmospheres. Although, im not entirely sure if they need the mothership or not to get back and forth.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 17, 2011, 04:44:09 PM
Being developed for a HD system, I would really want whoever makes Star Fox for the Wii U to design the Arwings in terms of actual aerospace pyhsics to feel like actual aircraft. Authenticity is what i am getting at.

Why should they be designed like real aircraft? There is no air in space, so there is no point in designing something to be aerodynamic. Whether the Airwings are designed like an F-16 or like a Borg Cube it would make no difference in a vacuum.

The US Air Force and NASA are currently working on advanced fighter jets that can reach farther into space. What I was getting at is that there should be a noticable difference between fighting inside and atmospere of a planet and in the vaccum of space. So far, the Star Fox series has not differentiated between the two and there is a noticable difference.
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Caterkiller on December 17, 2011, 05:19:36 PM
But should their really be that much of a difference? Would being in out space make things go slower? What ever the case if there were differences between land, sea, air and space that felt really unique to each other and at the same time felt good, then ok I say why not.

To me though the cool thing about Star Fx 64 is that you have all those terrains and they more or less feel exactly alike and I like that a lot. Still if things could be better I am open to it. But not to the point that the vehicles need to feel like real life heavy machinery that has a lot of realistic faults that go with it.

If we do get a new Star Fox I will be honest that it is the battle mode that has me most interested. As long as the ships move at a decent speed and the stages aren't so big in height that you can never find anyone I would love 16+ players flying all over the place. Are there any flying games out there with multiplayer like that now? I can't say i've ever really saw one.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 17, 2011, 05:37:26 PM
Being developed for a HD system, I would really want whoever makes Star Fox for the Wii U to design the Arwings in terms of actual aerospace pyhsics to feel like actual aircraft. Authenticity is what i am getting at.

Why should they be designed like real aircraft? There is no air in space, so there is no point in designing something to be aerodynamic. Whether the Airwings are designed like an F-16 or like a Borg Cube it would make no difference in a vacuum.

While I don't really want to indulge KyTim's awful ideas, most of the levels in Star Fox 64 took place within a planet's atmosphere.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 17, 2011, 06:35:42 PM
The Physics of Space Battles:
 
http://gizmodo.com/5426453/the-physics-of-space-battles (http://gizmodo.com/5426453/the-physics-of-space-battles)
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Caterkiller on December 17, 2011, 07:35:48 PM
The Physics of Space Battles:
 
http://gizmodo.com/5426453/the-physics-of-space-battles (http://gizmodo.com/5426453/the-physics-of-space-battles)

Oh no i'm not!
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 17, 2011, 07:41:20 PM
The incessant need for realism in a game where foxes, birds, rabbits and frogs fly interstellar spaceships and shoot giant masks in the sky is ruining the fond memories that I have with StarFox. Please, I beg you. Make it stop.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Kytim89 on December 17, 2011, 09:01:38 PM
The incessant need for realism in a game where foxes, birds, rabbits and frogs fly interstellar spaceships and shoot giant masks in the sky is ruining the fond memories that I have with StarFox. Please, I beg you. Make it stop.

What do I hear? You want more? ;D
 
I just want the gameplay to vary based on the area that the level takes place inat the time.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: nickmitch on December 17, 2011, 10:42:10 PM
That's why puppets are the way to go.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 18, 2011, 02:38:33 AM
the thing you want to change in fighter jets that can go in and out of the sky is air intake, you don't want air intake to go into space. If NASA and USAF can make a craft that can fly out of the planet without the need of a traditional rocket then that will change everything. Yeah though...its a game about anthro animals.

in my starfox parody video i kinda designed the middle ship with air/space flight in mind.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Spenczar on December 18, 2011, 02:56:43 AM
I give them 3 options:


-F-Zero
-StarFox
-New IP




I'd also love to see Retro develop an exclusive first party online FPS for Nintendo. Something the west market would eat up.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 18, 2011, 03:29:27 AM
See, I seem to be the only one who really doesn't want Retro to make an FPS. The way I see it, they're not going to be able to steal the market away from Call of Duty and Battlefield, and they should both be available on the Wii U now that the hardware is capable. I want Retro to do something nobody else is doing.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 18, 2011, 05:20:45 AM
See, I seem to be the only one who really doesn't want Retro to make an FPS. The way I see it, they're not going to be able to steal the market away from Call of Duty and Battlefield, and they should both be available on the Wii U now that the hardware is capable. I want Retro to do something nobody else is doing.

Stealing the market away from COD would be impossible, if nothing else due to the fact that COD is multiplatform and anything Retro makes would only be confined to Nintendo hardware.

But with that being said, stealing the market away from COD isn't even the point. The point is to counter console exclusive games like HALO and Killzone. The other systems have them, but Nintendo doesn't. This is a major hole in the Nintendo software franchise library that needs to be filled. Killzone and Halo will never beat COD either, because they are console exclusive. But Killzone and Halo still make lots of money, and that's the objective.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 18, 2011, 05:29:41 AM
Nintendo can make lots of money from Retro in a lot of ways, not just FPSs. I don't think having an exclusive FPS franchise is as big of a deal as having a AAA title from one of the industry's best developers in a genre that's not nearly as saturated.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 18, 2011, 08:16:46 AM
I just think Nintendo should have its own exclusive FPS franchise because that's the one thing they are lacking. Retro is probably the best studio Nintendo has to pull it off, but they probably have other studios that could do it also. I just think it should be done. Microsoft has Halo and Sony has Killzone, but Nintendo has nothing in this genre.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 18, 2011, 08:44:12 AM
Nintendo doesn't need to have anything in the genre. Just because Sony and Microsoft have these types of things doesn't mean Nintendo should too. Halo hasn't been a system seller in a long time, and Killzone never was. There are already too many first person shooters out there; we shouldn't waste what may be Nintendo's best development team on an oversaturated genre it has no hope of being a major player in.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 18, 2011, 12:09:20 PM
Nintendo doesn't need to have anything in the genre. Just because Sony and Microsoft have these types of things doesn't mean Nintendo should too. Halo hasn't been a system seller in a long time, and Killzone never was. There are already too many first person shooters out there; we shouldn't waste what may be Nintendo's best development team on an oversaturated genre it has no hope of being a major player in.

By that logic Nintendo should never have released the NES, because the market was already oversaturated with the likes of Atari and Colecovision and so on.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 18, 2011, 03:20:04 PM
because Space Invaders and Pitfall are the number one best selling and most beloved franchises of all time.....
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 18, 2011, 05:14:57 PM
because Space Invaders and Pitfall are the number one best selling and most beloved franchises of all time.....

At that time they were. Mario Bros. shattered that, though. Nintendo changed things then and shook things up. If they bring to the table their own Nintendo FPS franchise they could shake things up yet again.  It would be hobbled by the fact that it wouldn't be multiplatform, but hell Mario bros. was confined to a single console and that didn't stop it from dominating.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 18, 2011, 06:09:56 PM
Nintendo shook things up by actually creating a brand new experience.

Now, it is harder to shake up the industry.  Most things in specific genres are being done already.  Stealth FPS.  Check, start action FPS check, Single player driven FPS check, Multiple player only FPS check, Any theme you can think of, western, space, war, fantasy...check.  There aren't many ways to shake up the FPS market.

Could Nintendo make a great FPS game Yes.  Are there a few areas not yet explored with the FPS market...yes.  But I dunno how marketable they are.  I have my idea for the next big online game series, but it will have to wait...because I have nobody to share and work on the idea with....

Anyway, that was a totally different time period...and for the record the original Mario Bros...wasn't on a single console, it was on many, Atari, NES, Computer, Commodore 64 ect...
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 18, 2011, 06:13:30 PM
I assume Chozo meant Super Mario Bros.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: nickmitch on December 18, 2011, 06:21:42 PM
It wouldn't be Nintendo if they were just trying to keep up with the other consoles. Yeah, they COULD do it, and it would probably work. It would make more sense and be more Nintendo-like for Retro to fill a hole in the market, make something that's been missing (like Star Fox) or something that's never been done before simply on a whim.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 18, 2011, 06:24:01 PM
Yeah, I meant Super Mario Bros.

And yeah, there are fewer stones left unturned in the video gaming world now than there was 30 years ago when the industry was just getting started, but I doubt every stone has been turned over. There were people even like 200 years ago who said all the world's species had been discovered and cataloged, but probably more have been discovered since then than had ever been discovered before then and new species are still being discovered. So using that analogy I'm sure there are a lot of great video game ideas still waiting to be developed. There are going to be naysayers who will say its all been done before, but they will be proven wrong by someone. Isn't it better if that someone is Retro/Nintendo?
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 18, 2011, 10:08:13 PM
Nintendo doesn't need to have anything in the genre. Just because Sony and Microsoft have these types of things doesn't mean Nintendo should too. Halo hasn't been a system seller in a long time, and Killzone never was. There are already too many first person shooters out there; we shouldn't waste what may be Nintendo's best development team on an oversaturated genre it has no hope of being a major player in.

By that logic Nintendo should never have released the NES, because the market was already oversaturated with the likes of Atari and Colecovision and so on.

That's not the same logic at all. First off, the console market wasn't oversaturated when they launched the NES, because all of those systems were pretty much dead by that point. Second, hardware is not the same as software. Super Mario Bros. wasn't in a genre that everyone else had done to death; it was something fresh and new, which is exactly what I'm saying Retro should be doing instead of making yet another FPS.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ian Sane on December 19, 2011, 12:14:32 PM
Part of me wants to see what Retro could do with an FPS.  Yeah, there are lots of FPS games out there but how many of them are "Nintendo good"?  But I get where insanolord is coming from in regards to the Wii U getting the big third party first person shooters anyway.  The time for Retro or Nintendo to have released such a thing was THIS gen.  Hell since the N64 days there have been lots of times where Nintendo should have released a game in genre X because their lack of third party support essentially left that genre unspoken for.  So what Retro should do is fill whatever gap is not filled already by third parties on the Wii U.  Time will tell what genre is not well represented.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Tamazoid on December 19, 2011, 07:45:09 PM
I would like Retro to have a crack at the RPG genre. Perhaps restarting Raven Blade.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 20, 2011, 07:26:43 AM
As I said, an FPS is the thing Nintendo is lacking and has always been lacking from its franchise library. An FPS is exactly the thing which could have sold people on the Virtual Boy back when it came out, and maybe that could have saved it. But we'll never know, because Nintendo didn't have an FPS franchise offering then or now.

I think it relates to how Japanese centric the company is. FPS games are unpopular in Japan for whatever reason, but they are extremely popular in the west. But since Nintendo is a Japanese based company and because most of their thinking revolves around Japan and Japan is given their most attention and the highest priority, catering to western gamers is really an afterthought.

That said, the 3DS could really use an original Nintendo FPS franchise on it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it even has any 3rd party FPS games on it at the moment, and if it does I'm sure there aren't many of them and they aren't of great quality. Even COD MW3 which recently came out did not see release on the 3DS. So this is a major hole in the 3DS' library.

Nintendo is trying to say they are reaching out to all gamers and all demographics, right? Well, until they start reaching out to FPS gamers they can't make that claim. That doesn't mean they should do a 180 and abandon everyone else and do nothing but Halo style shooters. Of course they shouldn't do that. But they should make at least a token effort at an FPS game so then they would have all grounds covered, and then and only then would it be correct for them to say they are trying to reach out to everyone.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Adrock on December 20, 2011, 08:17:54 AM
If Nintendo gets 3rd parties on board, I don't see why they can't make the claim that they're reaching out to all gamers. Nintendo doesn't have to own an IP in every genre to claim mass appeal. They need 3rd parties to support their console with titles in those genres.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 20, 2011, 08:26:19 AM
If Nintendo gets 3rd parties on board, I don't see why they can't make the claim that they're reaching out to all gamers. Nintendo doesn't have to own an IP in every genre to claim mass appeal. They need 3rd parties to support their console with titles in those genres.

Hoping for 3rd parties to fill in the gaps and depending on them to do that has been a strategy Nintendo has been relying on since the Gamecube (and probably before that) and we have all seen how well that policy has worked out. I think it goes without saying that this shouldn't be repeated.

Nintendo doesn't have to be strong in all areas, but they need to have all bases covered. For all anyone knows it could end up being a runaway success and spawn 50 sequels and generate a character that can show up in a future smash bros. game. Maybe it won't be that successful, but it needs to be there anyway just in case at some time in the future Nintendo needs to call him/her/it up for active duty. Its important that he/she/it be there.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 20, 2011, 09:14:00 AM
Nintendo can't do everything themselves. If the Wii U is going to have a game lineup with all bases covered, some of them are going to have to be covered by third parties.

While it is possible that this hypothetical Retro FPS could be a huge hit that sells a ton and spawns all kinds of sequels, realistically there's basically no chance of that happening. Not saying it won't be really good, but it won't get enough attention to be a major player in the genre. I'm certain Retro could do a job with it, because I would bet on Retro doing a good job of anything they set their minds to, but I really think their time is better spent on other things
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 20, 2011, 10:07:43 AM
maybe making Donkey Kong was to get them experience making jungles
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ian Sane on December 20, 2011, 12:48:50 PM
There's nothing wrong with letting third parties fill the gaps.  But when it has become clear that third parties are NOT going to fill the gap, Nintendo has to step up.  Once it became clear that the Wii was not going to get much attention on the FPS front, Nintendo had to do it themselves.  They should have done that with an RPG on the N64 (though they did release Paper Mario at the very end, maybe they just took too long).  They weren't getting GTA on the Cube so they should have made their own sandbox game (note I only said "sandbox", doesn't have to be crime related).

Sega is mostly a big screw up but they did get the Genesis right.  When third parties weren't delivering the goods, Sega filled the gap themselves.  No Final Fight?  We got Streets of Rage.  No Dragon Quest?  We got Phantasy Star.  No Mario?  We got Sonic.  They didn't sit there and mope about third parties not stepping up.  They went out and filled the gaps so that their userbase wasn't left in the cold.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 20, 2011, 01:05:55 PM
Sega did that on their other platforms as well. Hell, on the Dreamcast they invented new gaps to fill, like the outer space dancing reporter gap.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 20, 2011, 01:19:08 PM
Sega did a fine job filling in the software with what little shoestring resources they had available, and they should be commended for that. Its a shame they spread themselves too thin by releasing too much redundant hardware which they could not possibly support adequately.

Nintendo is a multi-billion dollar company and has all the talent and resources it could ever need. So if Sega could fill out every genre, then there is no excuse for Nintendo not being able to. Nintendo does a good job delivering the games they want to deliver. Look at the Wii and how many 2D and 3D platformers it received, or casual games. If those are the only two genres of games you care about, then the Wii was the most awesome system of this generation if not of all time. But unfortunately, if you are looking for anything other than that you will be disappointed to find the cupboard is bare.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 20, 2011, 01:37:54 PM
Comparing what Sega did back then to the way things are now is ridiculous. Things have changed quite a bit; games are a lot more expensive and take significantly more time to make. For Nintendo to be able to cover everything they would have to expand by a lot, meaning founding and staffing new studios or buying existing ones, or probably both. That would cost a fuckton of money, and it would most likely be too much for them to handle while maintaining the level of quality they're known for. The much better and more sane solution is the one they seem to have gone with, to work more closely with third parties and design their systems to be more accommodating to them, ensuring better support.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 20, 2011, 01:55:12 PM
The much better and more sane solution is the one they seem to have gone with, to work more closely with third parties and design their systems to be more accommodating to them, ensuring better support.

But this solution has not bore fruit. They've been trying it since the Gamecube, and what has the results of that been? If Nintendo wants things done right they have to do it themselves. 3rd parties will look for any excuse to screw Nintendo over. Its happened over and over again, so why think this time would be any different?

You say this is the "sane" solution, but correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the definition of insanity to do something over and over again and expect a different result? So it seems to me this is not the sane solution at all, but rather the insane solution... like some mental patient beating their head against the wall of a sanatorium hoping that this will make the voices go away, but actually just taking their meds would probably work better.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Ian Sane on December 20, 2011, 03:11:26 PM
I agree that game development is more complex now so Nintendo can't do exactly what Sega used to do.  A game like Streets of Rage was probably made by only a handful of people and took mere months to make.  It's just not that complex of a game.

But has Nintendo EVER really tried this at all?  They have their favourite genres and styles and rarely go outside it.  I'm not suggesting they fill all the gaps.  I'm suggesting they make some sort of effort to tackle the most important gaps.  If they've got five gaps, fill the most important one!  Instead they just do whatever they want and don't give two shits if the genres they are not interested in are not well represented.

"Leave it to the third parties" is an EXCUSE from a company that doesn't give a **** if their userbase is content or not as long as they make a profit.  Since the N64 era Nintendo has never appeared to put in a legitmate effort to address any complaints about the gaps in their library.  If they cared they wouldn't have let this happen for 15 years.  They either don't care or they are ridiculously incompetent and they're far too profitable of a company to have just been fucking this up all this time.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 20, 2011, 03:23:34 PM
Since the N64 era Nintendo has never appeared to put in a legitmate effort to address any complaints about the gaps in their library.

I think its always been that way. Its just that before the N64 era the 3rd parties really did fill those gaps, so there was no problem, but from the N64 era onward the gaps are just left gaping wide open and never filled by anyone. Maybe this will change with the Wii U and I seriously hope it does, but that's putting faith in someone else to pull through and do the job you should be doing yourself. Sure, Han Solo might return in the millennium Falcon and save the day, but Luke shouldn't count on that as a given.

And even if that multiplatform support does come through, guess what? The competition is going to have those multiplatform titles also, PLUS their own exclusive 1st party offerings. FPS fans will not come to the Wii U based on multiplatform support alone. These gamers love COD and Battlefield and games like it, but they can get those on the other systems too, plus Killzone, Halo, Resistance, Gears of War, etc. which are platform exclusive.

So at BEST with Nintendo's current strategy of letting 3rd parties fill in the gaps they will only be able to get SOME of the games the competition systems will have. There needs to be at least one 1st party Nintendo franchise which is exclusive to the Wii U, otherwise FPS nuts won't care. There will still be COD and Battlefield of course, but since the Wii U is not the FPS console of choice the sales of these titles would probably trail behind the versions for the other consoles, and if it trails badly enough it could convince certain developers to ignore the Wii U and it would be the Gamecube/Wii situation all over again.

I'm not asking for Nintendo to create a COD killer, but they need an A+ FPS franchise which is exclusive to their hardware. It needs to be something the other consoles will not have, which would make FPS fans have a reason to want to buy a Wii U. Once that is in place, the 3rd party multiplatform games might do better on the Wii U because the market would be there.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: marty on December 20, 2011, 04:16:10 PM
New Super Mario Bros. 2--as in using Super Mario Bros. 2 as the inspiration and making new version of it.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Stogi on December 20, 2011, 04:48:05 PM
Walls of Text make my eyes bleed.

I think if Nintendo should do anything, they should take a page from Google and allow developers to work on their main projects for 80% of the time, but then work on any pet projects 20% of the time. The best pet projects by the end of the year get full-funding.

Either that or just rotate from top team to top team, forcing each one at some point to come up with a new IP. That way everyone, everywhere can have their shot.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 20, 2011, 04:54:48 PM
i really don't get the idea that "games are so complex now that they take more and more people to make", bullshit, thats bad management. All these games are made with the same software, and all you have to do is re-use resources. I'm pretty sure they make everything from scratch a lot of the time and that slows down development time. Also, at this point re-using resources should be that much easier because its going to be harder and harder to make the console crash. Games should get easier and easier to make, not harder and harder.

like for instance, im not really a programmer, but years ago I had programming classes. However, Object oriented programming is object oriented programming. If I were Nintendo and I wanted to make a shooter, all I would have to do is take the Zelda engine and make some adjustments. Basically, keep it in arrow mode and allow input from the joystick to cause the object tied to the character and camera to move. Viola, shooting game. Maybe make some weapon switichng input adjustments. The part that processes graphics and physics and other things would just be the same. If anything I could tweak it.

Graphics works the same way, and I'm not talking about enemies, im talking about scenery. I'd expect them to make new enemies each time. Scenery though is pretty static. Say the game calls for me to have a watermelon in it. Heres the thing, another game Nintendo made 2 years ago had a watermelon. All i got to do is copy the watermelon file from the old game, i don't have to model an new watermelon. IDK, ive messed around with so many editors on so many things, and one thing that irritates me is none of them have got it together like they should. Some programs have some things, and other programs have some things the others don't. None of them have all features combined. I kinda wish i had a company to make my own engine and creation software, because I see how you could make games more efficiently. Its hard to explain, i would have to make diagrams and stuff.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 20, 2011, 06:10:58 PM
ThePerm:

Actually I remember awhile back Nintendo was basically moving in that direction with graphics.  They had a team that were basically making the definitive character models for all main Mario characters.  These models would then be able to be used in many other games...which is why Mario Party and Mario Sports games seem to be released fairly regularly. 

I agree to you to a point, and I know the PC market has been working that way for awhile...and probably the console market as well.  Nintendo has been known to comment about wanting smaller development teams and cheaper games. 

Still you do need that one or two big projects that take a couple of years to release to have your programmers make the new engines that will be used for their other games.  Games like Mario Galaxy and the New Zelda may not have been possible on current Nintendo game engines, but now that they are released and the resources for programming quality motion controls and such are there Nintendo will be able to implement them in other games.
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Dasmos on December 21, 2011, 04:10:07 AM
a whole bunch of nonsense

You don't really believe this is a good idea, do you?
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on December 21, 2011, 01:07:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d17jVR2QR1k&list=UUQwkhTQQz50ETU5PjyVOUOQ&index=23&feature=plcp
yes
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: shinyray01 on January 06, 2012, 09:30:42 PM
I want to see them create a new IP. Its time to think outside of the box.

Yes! I mean like let them work on Raven Blade (i think that's what it was called)
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: FZeroBoyo on January 10, 2012, 02:41:29 PM
Word on the street is that Retro swooped up some staff that worked on Uncharted 3 and Darksiders.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=34161262#post34161262 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=34161262#post34161262)


What could this mean for the developer? What could this "crowning achievement" be? Oh, the suspense!
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 10, 2012, 05:59:26 PM
The new Retro member later stated that this "crowning achievement" of his has absolutely nothing to do with Retro's next game at all, though it's nice to see that Retro is starting to expand more.  They really need at least two fully-staffed teams for this upcoming gen...
Title: Re: Games That Retro Studios Should Be Developing for the Wii U
Post by: ThePerm on January 11, 2012, 01:23:44 AM
wow that is some new talent...and

WTF Bill is BACK!? :)