Topic: What will/could make the DS prevail

[VideoGamerJ]

There are quite a handful of topics with ideas and with not, yet I've decided to create another one, however, this being more broad. I only request that this stay on-topic and clarify. I'm asking you, almost as if you were telling Nintendo, what would make the Nintendo DS do better against competition or in general. Here are my thoughts:

Stable online plan supported or heavily endorsed by Nintendo.

Partnership with wi-fi support or dedication to deliver more hotspots (ex. Starbucks).

New, original games. Not too many 3D, nor too many 2D.

Lower ratio of ports than original games.

Third party support that UTILIZE features appropriately.

Good advertising with an older market.

I've had a bunch of other stuff in mind, but I've forgotten a lot of this. Please help by contributing to this, thanks!  

[Lost101]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again.  The DS pretty much NEEDS to go to $100 to be able to compete with the PSP.  I dont mind paying $150 (hell I already have mine preordered and paid off) but Im sure many people will when for $30 extra they can get a PSP.  

All the things you mentioned are very important, especially the wifi thing.  I think the Wifi thing could work really well, like it could be a great way to meet other DS users and make it sorta a big thing, Nintendo tried to do this whole communication thing with pokemon and it didnt go quite all the way it couldve, and it only worked for little kids most of the time.  

With so much integrated, like a microphone touch screen and such, Palm type things are a must.  Hell nintendo should develop it themselves just to make sure it goes smooth.  There is a topic about it on this forum, clearly Im not the only one that would like this.

I am not exactly sure how the DS plays GBA games, but it would be interesting if it did something to enhance them alot (maybe you can draw on the screen when you pause... or something to that effect?  That would certainly make a lot of GBA owners want to get one.

And they need to grab as many buyers as they can before PSP comes out.  The limited numbers nintendo is launching with is a big nono.  This race will be won or lost before the PSP comes out.  

[VideoGamerJ]

I definately agree. If Nintendo can push the below games properly, all should go well. Online gaming is very important and if they wait too long, people's level of being swayed will start to dissapear. Here's what they possibly have to combat strong before the PSP releases(please excuse lack of actual names):

Super Mario 64 DS
Wario Ware DS
Animal Crossing DS
Mario Kart DS
Advance Wars DS
Yoshi's Touch and Go (Balloon Trip)

(Particularly in this order)

Of course they have 3rd party support, however strong it may be. I'm not sure how far along Zelda, the new Super Mario Brothers, the Princess Peach game and all of those other small talk games are, but I can basically guess that none of them will hit market before March. This means that Nintendo needs to put out more than games. This then follows into the things that I and many other people have listed time and time again.
 

[Ian Sane]

"I'm asking you, almost as if you were telling Nintendo, what would make the Nintendo DS do better against competition or in general."

No ports.  Well too late for that but no more unless:
A: It's incredibly rare
B: It's an arcade perfect port of a game that has never recieved a perfect port
C: It has never been released in North America before
D: It's a compilation

More original titles.  The DS lineup has a LOT of franchise stuff.  Franchise stuff sells well with an existing userbase but it doesn't sell consoles.  Plus this is supposed to be an innovative console and you can't sell innovation if on first appearance everything looks like the same stuff that was released on the Cube and GBA.

Don't go nuts with using the new features.  Not every game has to use the stylus so only use it if it's a good idea.  For example a lot of people have complained about the steering in Ridge Racer.  If the d-pad works better than just use that.  It's better to release a good generic game than an "innovative" one that plays like crap.  A lot of DS titles look like they took a game and thought "how can I use the stylus for this?"  That's wrong.  You're supposed to design the controls around the game not the other way around.  They should look at the touch screen and think "what games could I make for this?"  And if they can't think of anything then they shouldn't have had the touch screen in the first place.  

[Pale]

The ds dropping to 100 dollars won't make any difference.  This gen in home consoles has already proved that.  If Nintendo wants it to be the winning system, they have to make it the cooler system, not the cheapest.  How do they do that?  You got me...but its something that has to be adjusted almost daily.  One idea i think would work is product placement that doesn't look like product placement.  What I mean by that, is avoid just putting like ads in sporting events...and do things like, Have a CSI episode revolve around it, where they track down the killer based on who someone was playing on the DS or something...

You could also stick it in some reality tv in a way that the contestants would talk about how cool it was....

uhmm there are a bunch more..but you just have to make it look cool in things that aren't comercials...

[Pale]

Ack, I double posted...someone string me up.

[Ian Sane]

"Have a CSI episode revolve around it, where they track down the killer based on who someone was playing on the DS or something"

That's neat idea but it has to be subtle.  Don't have the main characters talk about how awesome the DS is or anything.  I probably wouldn't even have them mention it by name.  "I think I've found the killer.  The victim was playing a game with him on the DS." just sounds really obvious.  Ideally the DS shouldn't be part of the plot at all.  Have a scene where they go to question some guy and he's really obnoxious because he's playing his videogame (ie: the DS) the whole time.  They could like close the DS on him to get his attention.  Realistically the exact same scenario could happen with a laptop only a DS is plugged in instead.  So it's not "the DS episode" it's "the episode that has the DS in it for 30 seconds".

[Stimutacs Addict]

MTV's Real World residents need to get their own DS's. Road Rules as well.

residents in real world could use pictochat to talk to their roomies more efficiently

ditto for the travelling companions in road rules  

you know they'd rave about how badass madden will be..

speaking of madden; with each DS gamecard required to have the rewritable ROM (ram etc.), couldnt you wirelessly transfer madden rosters to teh DS and save it  on the game card?


hmm..

[kennyb27]

And since Reggie used to work for MTV...Hmmm...

[Hostile Creation]

Quote
Have a scene where they go to question some guy and he's really obnoxious because he's playing his videogame (ie: the DS) the whole time. They could like close the DS on him to get his attention

Yeah, except the guy with the DS has to be really cool and solve the case himself in the blink of an eye.

[Switchblade Cross]

Really, I think Nintendo's biggest thing will be becoming "cool".  Of course, this will have to come from advertising.  The commercails they have been running recently are good, and they are beeing played in a decent rotation, but it still needs to be more.  Nintendo plans on movie adverts.  Thats great, but from what I heard, they wont start untill lat Nov, early Dec.  In my opinion, they should have been playing since the begining of October.  Paring a DS advert with the horror movies (typically big with Teens) like Grudge, Saw and Chucky, would have been great and an ad in The Incredibles would have been good as well.  Promotions with Coke (seeing as how Sony has Pepsi currently) would have been great, along with corresponding adds.

What Nintendo also needs is either a high-profile onlne game, along with huge adds with big influences on the NDS's WiFi.  Imaging the following commercial:

The NintendoDS logo fades in on a black field.  The screen then flashes white and fades to a huge field during a blazing morning sunrise.  You see a huge batallion of Barbarians on foot and horseback quickly approacking the screen.  Just before the first barabrian approaches the camera, it moves quickly to a dank forest where you see many Elfs, Halflings and other similar races being to converge in preperation for war.  The camera continues to do similar manovers to diffrent landscapes and races.  A booming voice over says "The best online adventure of all time is now in the palm of your hand."  The camera flashes to a logo "Everquest DS". An NDS materializes (like startrek) as a sultry woman's voice says "It's not online, it NO line"

oh yeah...  

[Ian Sane]

"The camera flashes to a logo 'Everquest DS'. An NDS materializes (like startrek) as a sultry woman's voice says 'It's not online, it NO line'"

Everquest is made by Sony.  It's a potential PSP killer app not a DS one.  And Nintendo will NEVER be cool if they use their own lame-o terms like "no line".  Online is cool.  They have to use the word "online" or no one will care.

[Lost101]

Yeah ofcourse marketing is important, but I say they have done a good job on this so far (hear me out).  You might say, well you hardly see any commercials for it, but they dont have the funds to do this.  Ofcourse sony will be able to have more commercials than the DS,  they are just a bigger company.  But look at the DS website, look at the general look and hype around it, very sleek and very aimed at the older demographic, more so than even the SP (which I think did a pretty good job of grabbing a slightly older audience than the original GBA).  The kids are hooked already, its a portable console and it says Nintendo on it (plus is has mario).  What they need to worry about is the older guys who are looking at a PSP.

And how can you say that price doesnt matter.  What did the price change for the GC do?  The GC was $150 with a free game, suddenly its $100 without a free game (which, when you think about it isnt that big a leap) but people still JUMPED on it and I believe it atleast doubled its sales.  

[Switchblade Cross]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Everquest is made by Sony.

 

LOL, you know, that completely slipped my mind!

Eh.  Well, Everquest aside, my point is that Nintendo needs some sort of big name online game.  Quake, Unreal, WarCraft/StarCraft, hell, even Phantsy Star!

Speaking of WarCraft.  Blizzard better get there ass in gear with some RTS NDS games....  

[Lost101]

If either Warcraft or starcraft made it on the DS my life would be complete.  

[Switchblade Cross]

Quote
Originally posted by: Lost101
...But look at the DS website, look at the general look and hype around it, very sleek and very aimed at the older demographic, more so than even the SP (which I think did a pretty good job of grabbing a slightly older audience than the original GBA).  The kids are hooked already, its a portable console and it says Nintendo on it (plus is has mario).  What they need to worry about is the older guys who are looking at a PSP...

Really though, how many average, every day, casual gamers do you know that are absolutly hyped about the system, barring anybody you have personally introduced it to.  I know there is big hype and all, but I'm sure that view is a little skewed, seeing as how we all frequent gamer BBS and speak with other gamers.  The type of people I see getting hyped about the system are already Nintnedo lovers, or hardcore gamers in general.  I don't overhear John Doe talking about the NDS like there was behind PS2.  

Really, the big thing I am wondering is, if Nintendo had named this the GameBoy DS, would it have effected sales?  If is wrong of Nintnedo to belive in this whole "third pillar" stuff?  I mean, yeah, theres a nother Nintendo handheld coming, we all know that.  Theres one after that one, and that one.  We all know this.  In reality, were not seeing GameBoy Enhanced untill 2007 in the extreme earliest, mostlikley 2008.  So, wouldent this make the NDS the GBA replacement untill GBE, just as N64 was between the SNES and GCN.  If they dident bother calling the N64 a third pillar, with the NDS?  I think it has something to do more with Nintendo wanting to keep their ass safe.  If this whole NDS/Dual/Touch thing dosen't go over well and flopps, this gives them the option of just saying "Oh, DS was just a third pillar, it dosent matter if it failed, we were making the new GameBoy the whole time."

Ok, I'm just ranting there, but my point with that is, if Nintendo simply called in GameBoy DS, that would prompt virtually all current GBA owners to immediatly upgrade.  For some reason I am unsure of the quick adoption by the "Non-Nintendo-Loyalists GBA Fanbase".  I'm not saying I dont think they will, I just think it would be a sure thing had it been named accordingly...

 

[Spak-Spang]

What the DS needs to succeed.

1)Promote community.  Release several games that incorporate multiplayer, and then create Hotspots for gamers to meet new gamers, and play DS.  Create something special at these hotspots, like exclusive maps or such.  I don't care where these hotspots are, as long as they are all around the world, and not only at toy stores.

2)Internet is not going to be a breaking point for DS.  It will not matter if you can play DS online or not.  What will matter is those HotSpots, and ensuring everyone that DS multiplayer is here to stay.

3)Ian Sane is right.  Nintendo needs to show that DS doesn't HAVE to use all the feature it has available.  Nintendo needs to design a game that doesn't take advantage of the touch screen.  Show developers its ok to limit design and not use everything.  

4)Keep prices as low as possible.  Portable gaming can never carry the same price point that console gaming does.  Keep prices low, and comparison shoppers will buy the DS for cheaper games.  IF all PSP games are 10-15 dollars more than DS games, then some will choose DS over PSP.  Specially if you are also talking about a 50 dollar starting price difference as well.

[Pale]

I don't think you really understand the concept of these supposed hot spots...  They don't make any difference to 'local' multiplayer...  The DS has a proprietary wirless built in, so anywhere can be a 'hot spot'.  The only thing finding an open 802.11 network will do is allow you to get online from there....  So in essence, if there is no internet play, hot spots will be useless.

[Spak-Spang]

Palzero:  I actually understand how the hotspots work.  But, what I am saying is that these hotspots can be used to create a community.  People will know where to go to meet others with a DS.  Sometimes you just don't know anybody else with a system.  If you don't then having wireless play is meaningless.  And some people won't have the option for wireless WiFi at home.

So with these Hotspots.  Make them cool.  Give them exclusive content, make it online if you want...but most importantly, make it some place people actually want to go to meet people and play the DS.  

I know people.  People would rather go to a bar and have fun with real people in the room then play online with somewhat real people.

The community aspect of DS could make or break the system.

[Bill Aurion]

Oh, so games don't really make a difference?

[Pale]

Exclusive content would be pretty cool, ya got a point there.    I guess my point is, if there isn't online they don't have to be tied down to wifi (which you may not even have meant).  Nintendo kiosks with DS's could very easily be these hot spots where the demo disks act as the little hot spots that pump content to other dss in the area.

[couchmonkey]

I'm not convinced that price makes a lasting difference.  The GameCube's price drop last year was popular in spite of a general lack of interest in the system's low price.  The price has always been significantly better than the competition, but it only ever made a real difference for a few months last year.
Having said that, this is the handheld market, and the systems are at the lower end of the price scale in the first place, so I don't know for sure that a price change would make any difference.
I think popular games and excellent marketing will be the keys for Nintendo's success.

[Spak-Spang]

For console gaming pricing isn't as big of a deal, but it is for portable gaming.  

If I had a choice between GTA for my PS2 or for my PSP, at the same price or very very close.  I will buy the console version.  

However, if I have that choice for a Gamcube Mario game or a DS Mario Game and the prices are 10-15 dollar difference I will buy the DS game.  The thing is people demand cheaper prices for portable systems, and portable games.  They don't for console system and games.

Bill:  Exclusive games are important, but Nintendo has always had exclusive games in Spades.  They are the best first party developer in the world.  However, they are still 3rd place.  Hmmm....Perhaps Exclusive games aren't as important as we think.

Hotspots also provide you with a few other bonuses besides online WiFi internet.  With the Hotspots it allows games to have more players than the average connection.  It also could allow exclusive content, downloads, and even entirely unique games per location.  

Nintendo really needs to advertise all these things.  I would go to a local bar that has a special multiplayer DS game that I can't play anywhere else....if it was good.

[Bill Aurion]

"Perhaps Exclusive games aren't as important as we think."

We've known this for years already...Cool factor > quality, to most gamers... =\

[Spak-Spang]

Yes image, hype, cool factor is much more important than quality of the game.  How sad is that.

Halo is an example.  Halo made the X-Box a success, not because it was a great game, though it was great.  But because it gained the image of being the cool game to play.  And that is debatable.  There were some minor problems with the design of Halo, and those designs are also in Halo 2.  

That doesn't mean I think its a bad game or anything, because I don't.  I am just saying it isn't what the MS hype machine has made it...either game.  Yet the media and the fans will make it that.