Author Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?  (Read 1572633 times)

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Offline Morari

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #725 on: June 29, 2011, 10:00:03 AM »
Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen any kind of standard control device with the WiiU... just some ugly tablet thing.

The extra cost and extra R&D time doesn't pan out. Again, I'm sure there will be a few games that make great use of the concepts introduced with the WiiU (just like there were a handful on the Wii and DS). Otherwise though, I think it's all going to be throw away features that at best add nothing to the game experience. It's not a concept worth building an entire system around. It didn't impress with the VMU and it didn't much impress with the NGC/GBA connectivity. Why should a bigger screen and some dumb touch controls change anything? It seems like if Nintendo wanted to do something like this, they should have just paired their existing handheld up with some supportive software. Everything is wireless now, so it wouldn't be the big debacle that it was with GBA link cables.

This is just a continuation of the Wii mentality (as stated right in the name). Nintendo will probably get plenty of third party ports because they now have the hardware power, but other than that I don't see that anything has really changed since the Wii. Nintendo should have released a sister console to the GameCube instead. :P
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #726 on: June 29, 2011, 10:05:54 AM »
The "ugly tablet thing" has all the buttons and sticks that any other controller has. There's no reason a developer can't ignore the screen if they want to. Like I said, this is basically a console version of the DS, and there are tons of DS titles that don't include any controls beyond the buttons.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #727 on: June 29, 2011, 10:07:45 AM »
I do have to say its a shame the uMote isn't multi-touch.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #728 on: June 29, 2011, 10:14:52 AM »
In my experience as someone who's spent a lot of time with iPhone and iPad games, multitouch is only useful in gaming in very specific circumstances, especially since the Wii U has physical buttons and sticks, negating the need for using the touch screen for those, the main reason any iPhone game needs the multitouch.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #729 on: June 29, 2011, 12:19:52 PM »
Quote
Why have touch screens and waggle controls when no one is really asking for it?

Based on the huge sales figures for the DS and Wii I think it is pretty clear that gimmicky doodads attract rubes like flies to honey.  It is annoying for me but it gets that casual non-gamer dollar.  One thing that is good about the Wii U is that it uses the DS approach where the useless gimmick is merely an addition to a what would otherwise be a standard videogame system.  The thing that absolutely sucked about the Wii was that it was nothing but a gimmick.  It had no significant hardware upgrade over the Gamecube and the normal controls were optional.  So every game had waggle shoehorned into it because of a lack of buttons and the gimmick was all the system had going for it.  Take it away and every Wii game could have easily been made for the Gamecube.  Take away the touchscreen and the mic from the DS and you still would have had a good follow-up to the GBA.  Without it's gimmick the Wii wouldn't be able to distinguish itself from the Gamecube at all.
 
The Wii U is an actual follow up that also has a bunch of gimmicky bullshit.  But the normal console is still there so games designed for an audience that is not interested in those gimmicks can still be made.
 
My concern is that Nintendo themselves will shoehorn useless bullshit into their games and make them inferior.  Super Mario Galaxy would be better without those stupid broken manta ray levels, DKC Returns is ruined by waggle and Phantom Hourglass is an outright shitty game because of stupid touchscreen controls.  The problem with the Wii U is that Nintendo can take a good game and ruin it because they'll feel the need to "prove" the touchscreen concept.  3D is probably the best gimmick they've come up with because it is has so little substance it actually can't ruin a game.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #730 on: June 29, 2011, 12:45:45 PM »
"Useless gimmicks" are making Nintendo loads of money. Your bitching makes Nintendo no money. I wouldn't make games for you either.


Offline Ceric

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #732 on: June 29, 2011, 12:48:22 PM »
In my experience as someone who's spent a lot of time with iPhone and iPad games, multitouch is only useful in gaming in very specific circumstances, especially since the Wii U has physical buttons and sticks, negating the need for using the touch screen for those, the main reason any iPhone game needs the multitouch.
I was thinking about how large its could easily make for a one handed keyboard on the screen.  On those you have to shift the letters so it be 2 button presses or doing something like a keyboard.  With the extra real estate you can actually manage touching multiple things for controls and and like where the DS line is to small and I would also Argue any phone except for maybe and Dells huge one.
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Offline Morari

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #733 on: June 29, 2011, 01:24:39 PM »
The "ugly tablet thing" has all the buttons and sticks that any other controller has.

That doesn't mean it'll act like on. Shape and ergonomics play a very large role in my enjoyment of video games. I can't say the Upad appears to have anything resembling a comfortable design... not for traditional games at least. The Wavebird was pretty comfortable, even if it could have been standardized a bit by negating the misaligned face buttons and adding a second shoulder button.

Then again, maybe ergonomics and comfort doesn't matter to most people... after all, plenty of people are still using the same ten-year-old Dual Shock crap. And no one seems to mind pecking at inaccurate touchscreens on their overpriced cell phones.
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Offline crashnnburn

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #734 on: June 29, 2011, 01:37:50 PM »
Ok Morari and the rest of you complaining, I understand your point with DS and Wii and the rest of the systems you may have. But how can you all, that haven't even held the damn controller bitch about it? Quit complaining until you guys have tried it which is a year from now at the least.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #735 on: June 29, 2011, 02:03:04 PM »
Take away the touchscreen and the mic from the DS and you still would have had a good follow-up to the GBA.

Take away the touchscreen and mic from the DS and you're left with essentially a GBA SP with two screens. It would not have been a good follow-up to the GBA. Its the touch screen which makes the DS what it is and without that I think its very likely the PSP would have been the number one handheld. Graphically speaking the DS wasn't enough of an improvement over the GBA to really set itself apart, so without the touchscreen what is there?

I strongly disagree that it was a "useless gimmick" because many games on the DS benefited from touchscreen input, and there are many games which couldn't have been done at all without that. Waggle may be a gimmick, but the touchscreen offers legitimate gaming benefits at times.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #736 on: June 29, 2011, 02:07:25 PM »
The people on this site who were at E3 and actually held it and played with it didn't seem to have any problem with the ergonomics of it. Everyone commented on how surprisingly light it was and that it was a lot more comfortable than it looked.
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #737 on: June 29, 2011, 02:13:26 PM »
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"Regarding Zelda HD, Japanese developers said that it could not be replicated on other machines," Iwata said.

Now that just can't be true can it? That would be pretty cool if it turned out to be true but I can't say either way. A Zelda game looking like that would be amazing, but chances are when the game is actually made it wont look as good as that.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #738 on: June 29, 2011, 03:02:35 PM »
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"Regarding Zelda HD, Japanese developers said that it could not be replicated on other machines," Iwata said.

Now that just can't be true can it? That would be pretty cool if it turned out to be true but I can't say either way. A Zelda game looking like that would be amazing, but chances are when the game is actually made it wont look as good as that.
If History hold it will be Cel-Shaded and adorn with Children and a weird "Fairy"
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #739 on: June 29, 2011, 05:07:01 PM »

I typed this post 3hrs and 25 minutes ago and never hit the post button.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-29-why-core-gamers-will-accept-wii-u

Why core gamers will accept Wii U
Comments from Iwata
Quote
"Wii was not accepted by core gamers because they did not want to abandon their preferred control approach," he said, as reported by Andriasang.

"Additionally, Wii did not use HD because HD cost performance at the time was low. Wii U makes it easier to use conventional controls. Also, the Wii U controller is not as big or heavy as it looks."

"Regarding Zelda HD, Japanese developers said that it could not be replicated on other machines," Iwata said.

It was made in a relatively short period, so Iwata feels that HD development will not be a problem.

Everyone that has held the controller has said it comfortable. And if there is one thing Nintendo knows, it's how to make a controller that is comfortable to hold and easy to use (I liked the N64 controller even if it was a little awkward to use the d-pad and while holding the middle grip). So let's just ignore everything that has been said by everyone that has actually held and used the controller so far and then complain about how it doesn't "look" like it's comfortable.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #740 on: June 29, 2011, 05:09:36 PM »
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Take away the touchscreen and mic from the DS and you're left with essentially a GBA SP with two screens.

I don't remember the GBA being capable of N64 level polygons.  The hardware boost was as signicifant as any typical console generation.  That alone would have sufficient.  I don't care for Metroid Prime Hunters but do you think you could make a 3D game like that for the GBA?
 
Quote

 "Useless gimmicks" are making Nintendo loads of money. Your bitching makes Nintendo no money. I wouldn't make games for you either. 

Nintendo doesn't make much money off of me anymore but it's entirely because they stopped making games for me.  I was the loyal customer and they hung me out to dry.  I put up with a lot of their incompetent bullshit before they told me to take a hike.  They turned on me before I turned on them.  What you're basically saying is that if a company pisses off their loyal customers, they should just tell those customers to go **** themselves and go after someone else who won't complain.
 
What I want are great games with responsive and accurate controls.  It's a gimmick if it sucks.  Make the game control like a dream and it isn't a gimmick.  When I declare something a gimmick, I'm saying that in personal experience the feature adds virtually nothing to the game at best and at worst hurts the game.  I didn't consider polygons a gimmick, or the analog stick a gimmick or online play a gimmick.  I didn't **** on those ideas when they were new because they proved themselves early on.
 
This isn't even new.  The DS already did the touchscreen thing.  So if I wasn't wowed by the DS's touchscreen why would this be any different?  If Nintendo had all these awesome ideas for it, isn't it likely they would have done them already on the DS?  Why would they hold back on anything like that?  Any cynicism towards Skyward Sword is the same logic.  If Nintendo was going to do something truly worthwhile with motion control, why would it take until likely the last Wii game to accomplish it?  Surely they would have come up with something years ago.  Nintendo nailed the analog stick in the FIRST GAME THEY USED IT IN!  First attempt to do a sidescrolling game?  Nailed it.  First attempt to use polygons?  Nailed it.  First attempt to do a full 3D game?  Nailed it.  First attempt to bring any of their 2D franchises into 3D?  Nailed it with Mario, Zelda AND Metroid!  When Nintendo hits on a truly awesome concept they get it right the first time.  They don't **** around for five years with half-baked efforts and then suddenly nail it.

Offline Ceric

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #741 on: June 29, 2011, 05:09:44 PM »
I just wish they let use play with WiiU in Club Nintendo type way or something before the release date.  I personally have that tour going at least 3 months before release.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #742 on: June 29, 2011, 05:13:36 PM »
Yeah, Wii U may be perfectly capable of a realistic Zelda, but Nintendo will probably go with a super pixel art version for the style. Fans will bitch and complain, in the long run you'll look at that game lovingly as one of the best ones.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #743 on: June 29, 2011, 05:43:52 PM »
Yeah, Wii U may be perfectly capable of a realistic Zelda, but Nintendo will probably go with a super pixel art version for the style. Fans will bitch and complain, in the long run you'll look at that game lovingly as one of the best ones.
Wouldn't that make Skyward Sword TP:MM lol
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #744 on: June 29, 2011, 05:49:07 PM »
"Useless gimmicks" are making Nintendo loads of money. Your bitching makes Nintendo no money. I wouldn't make games for you either.

I agree with Ian on this one. I don't know how long Ian has been a Nintendo fan, but I've been one since I was around 7 or 8 back when the NES came out, so why shouldn't my opinion matter? I don't know how long you've been a Nintendo fan either, but I seriously doubt you've been one longer than I have just because I started being one at about the time when people outside of Japan began to become aware Nintendo even existed.

The reason why what Ian and me and anyone who has been a Nintendo fan for a long time matters is because we aren't finnicky the way casual gamers are. We've been on board all this time so now Nintendo decides to throw us away to cater for casual gamers who aren't going to have any loyalty? That's like having a loyal pet dog for 10 years but then throwing it out and getting a cat. Why would any company want to sacrifice loyal fans in exchange for someone who will betray them at the turn of the hat?

Next generation Nintendo is going to lose a large chunk of the casual market to Sony and Microsoft. The reason why this is guaranteed to happen is because Nintendo has so much of that market right now that there is no where for it to go but down. Kinect and Move are already having some effect as we speak. Nintendo is going to need to rely on its loyal fanbase again, but after getting shat on over the last 6 years maybe we won't come back and if we don't it will only be Nintendo's fault for having stabbed us in the back just so they could win over a market that doesn't even give a crap.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #745 on: June 29, 2011, 05:53:06 PM »
...
Why would any company want to sacrifice loyal fans in exchange for someone who will betray them at the turn of the hat?
...
Because NoA said it be a good idea?
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Offline Stogi

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #746 on: June 29, 2011, 06:43:26 PM »
I thought of a great new game for the Wii U.

You buy a **** ton of Wii U's at launch as well as a bouquet of adorable puppies. Next, drive up to a strangers house and ring the door bell holding one of each. It is very important that you make sure they can see your car. Now ask them which they would rather have. When they tell you, give them nothing and get in your puppy filled, Wii U saturated car and drive off.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 06:45:53 PM by The Unagi »
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #747 on: June 29, 2011, 07:19:58 PM »
I thought of a great new game for the Wii U.

You buy a **** ton of Wii U's at launch as well as a bouquet of adorable puppies. Next, drive up to a strangers house and ring the door bell holding one of each. It is very important that you make sure they can see your car. Now ask them which they would rather have. When they tell you, give them nothing and get in your puppy filled, Wii U saturated car and drive off.

You'd have to be rich because Wii Us aren't going to be cheap, and at launch there will probably be shortages. You would probably have to pay much higher than the MSRP in order to get a lot of them.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #748 on: June 29, 2011, 08:15:23 PM »
Nintendo doesn't make much money off of me anymore but it's entirely because they stopped making games for me.  I was the loyal customer and they hung me out to dry.  I put up with a lot of their incompetent bullshit before they told me to take a hike.  They turned on me before I turned on them.  What you're basically saying is that if a company pisses off their loyal customers, they should just tell those customers to go **** themselves and go after someone else who won't complain.
What I'm saying is that you'll never be happy no matter what Nintendo does. You're in the minority of a minority of Nintendo fans who feel personally slighted. Everyone else realizes that Nintendo hit all of their big franchises on the Wii minus Star Fox and F-Zero. They just happened to appeal to casual gamers as well. That's why I don't buy this "Nintendo hung me out to dry" nonsense. Nintendo still releases all of these games we're accustomed to getting. They didn't stop making core games, YOU decided they weren't good enough or that you didn't get enough of them. That's YOUR problem. So, you don't like motion controls. Understood. GET THE **** OVER IT. There are plenty of people who like them and they're not all casual gamers. They're just people who like core and casual games and don't have a ridiculous checklist of prerequisites for fun like you do. You want Nintendo to shower you with all of their attention. Well, guess what, pal? YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO MATTERS. There's no pleasing people like you because you'll always want more than Nintendo is capable of providing. You want to stuff Nintendo into a box that they're never going to fit in. You want them to be a company they're never going to be like. You have this sense of entitlement that is absolutely exhausting. If Nintendo doesn't cater to you, one person, specifically, you're devastated beyond all reason.

Offline Stogi

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #749 on: June 29, 2011, 10:07:43 PM »
I thought of a great new game for the Wii U.

You buy a **** ton of Wii U's at launch as well as a bouquet of adorable puppies. Next, drive up to a strangers house and ring the door bell holding one of each. It is very important that you make sure they can see your car. Now ask them which they would rather have. When they tell you, give them nothing and get in your puppy filled, Wii U saturated car and drive off.

You'd have to be rich because Wii Us aren't going to be cheap, and at launch there will probably be shortages. You would probably have to pay much higher than the MSRP in order to get a lot of them.

Yes, diving into the logistics is an awesome idea.
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