Topic: PlayStation 3 will use Blue-Ray discs

[manunited4eva22]

Burners are still 3000 dollars, there is absolutely no demand for them! Blu-ray hasn't been picked to be a future medium for anything other tha ps3, and until it does, the burners will still be expensive and rare.  

If things go well, as in a miracle flies in and allows sony to gain the dvd consortiums love?

[joeamis]

No the only thing that needs to go well for it infact is if playstation 3 does half as well as playstation 2 has done, then in 2 years time the burners will be a couple hundred.  That doesn't even take into account if any computers use them, and it's looking like that will very well happen since alot of computer companies are already backing Blue-ray.  And that doesn't count if it gets used for tv and movie media as well.  So, they will definitely be cheap in 2 years.

[BlackNMild2k1]

FMD uses red or blue laser, and flourescent dye in a clear disc instead of a reflective disc allowing for more usable stacked layers (upto 20 of them or so)

anyway check the link at the top of the page that goes to Digit-Life.com, or just click on this repasting of it

[manunited4eva22]

Show me a single major computer company that will put  blu-ray anywhere outside of servers.    If it gets selected by the dvd consortium, which looks slim.  It will not gain a market presence in tv recording unless it gets below dvr/dvd recording costs.  Just about all of blu-ray burning/drive's futures rely upon the medium being accepted by the dvd consortium.

[joeamis]

Hewlett Packard and Dell have backed Blue Ray since before January of this year...  They plan to use it in their computers sometime at 2006 at the latest.  Another thing is, that the Blue-Ray Companies say that the production costs of Blue-Ray is going to be comparable to DVDs in mass volumes.  There are also already 10 companies making Blue-Ray recorders.

[KDR_11k]

Farfel: Realtime graphics assets require next to no space (Doom 3 takes 3 CDs). With the next gen it should be possible to archieve many of the effects you currently need FMVs for in realtime. That'd seriously cut down on the game sizes. Yes, some companieswill still use FMVs for the sake of having them, but look at e.g. Soul Calibur 2, with every character in a game so detailled there's no real need for prerendering anything.

[SgtShiversBen]

Now why in the hell do we even need a new medium anyways?  I mean, DVDs have just been around for mainstream audiences for like 4 or 5 years.  Tapes were around for like 15-20.  This is just horrible, what'd be the point of getting a whole new bunch of movies and what not just to have to rebuy them in 3 years.  Sure it could just be PS3 that uses it, but then everyone will be all gung-ho about it, and then it'll become mainstream.  GAH!! I'm thinking about giving up on technology and just using my existing ones....except for the orange barrels.

[SgtShiversBen]

See that's the thing buddy, I know it's ten years old, but I said for MAINSTREAM audiences it is no more than 5.  And who cares about HDTV, we were happy with VCRs, why can't these kids be happy with DVD.  They surpass more than anything that was available at the time, and still do.  I just hate it when people are all "OH A NEW FORMAT!! IT MUST BE THE BEST IN THE WORLD" in which DVD sucks.  Sony tried to already do it with BETA, and even though there is one of those things here, it sucks balls like a little vietnamese girl.  It's so horrible that people jump on the bandwagon so soon, blue-ray is just something that's trying to make more money, like C-2.  Oy, it's sad, may he have mercy on your souls...or in this case, give you more money.

Oh, DVD sucks by the way...it's a horrible form of media and bad for archiving purposes.

[manunited4eva22]

Okay, HP and Dell, both sell servers, whats your point. A lot of companies sell magneto optical drives, it's real popular with MRIs and servers, but you won't see it anywhere else.   However, in order for any medium to become popular, it has to have more than just hardware companies saying I'm in? Remember dvd-ram? Panasonic's idea of what dvd should have been, turned out to be a dud.  What you are saying is that it if something happens, and if something happens after that, then this might happen, that's a lot of ifs, and I seriously doubt that blu-ray will be the medium of choice in the next few years. Will it be cheap to produce?  Sure, but it's cheap to make a lot of things, doesn't make it infallible either.

Shivers: what would you prefer to archive on?  Hard drives? Floppies? Or will you go buy me a 500 dollar tape drive and 50 dollar tapes?  

[Renny]

HDTV broadcasts will be standard, eventually. No one's going to force us to record at HD quality. DVD-recorders are only just starting to take off, so DVDs will be around for awhile on the consumer end.

[Renny]

Because most don't give a damn about HD quality on their old interlaced CRT? People aren't going to just jump right onto the still-expensive HDTV bandwagon when they're perfectly content with what they have. They won't even get an HD tuner till they absolutely have to.

[Renny]

I don't. But many people really couldn't care less. And HDTV's been pushed back for years. I'd expect at least a couple more before the public is forced to adopt HDTV.

[KDR_11k]

I wonder if HDTVs still use 100Hz...

[joeamis]

Quote
Originally posted by: manunited4eva22
Okay, HP and Dell, both sell servers, whats your point.     What you are saying is that it if something happens, and if something happens after that, then this might happen, that's a lot of ifs, and I seriously doubt that blu-ray will be the medium of choice in the next few years. Will it be cheap to produce?  Sure, but it's cheap to make a lot of things, doesn't make it infallible either.

You're ignoring what I said.  Here it is again: Hewlett Packard and Dell have backed Blue Ray since before January of this year... They plan to use it in their (home) computers sometime at 2006 at the latest. Another thing is, that the Blue-Ray Companies say that the production costs of Blue-Ray is going to be comparable to DVDs in mass volumes. There are also already 10 companies making Blue-Ray recorders.

I included that BRD production costs are going to be as cheap as dvd's because we were talking about the cost of BRD Recorders...  and the media costs tie into that directly.

And I didn't say this might happen, then this might happen, only.  Like I said previously ONLY PS3 has to do as half as well as PS2 has done, for BRD Recorders to be cheap in 2 years.  That is not alot of ifs at all.  

[KDR_11k]

If you can't pirate those disks I'd imagine Sony would lose a lot of its customer base.

[joeamis]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
If you can't pirate those disks I'd imagine Sony would lose a lot of its customer base.

If that was the case, then PS2 titles wouldn't be dominating sales on a daily basis.  Dell and HP haven't released burners yet, I doubt they will release stand alone models but rather just stick to having them in their computers.  Since Sony is a key company in developing Blue-Ray, it will probably be easier for them to combat piracy using Blue-Ray discs in PS3 than it is for them now using DVDs for PS2.

[oohhboy]

Quote
Originally posted by: farfel
Yep you're right.  Delayed until at least 85% have HDTVs or HDTV tuners.  I think that's a good plan.

"The target date set by Congress for the completion of the transition to DTV is December 31, 2006. However, that date may be extended until most homes (85%) in an area are able to watch the DTV programming. At that point, broadcasting on the analog channels will end." - FCC.gov

That is all very nice and a horribly flawed argument. What about the rest of the world. The U.S. isn't the onlt contry out there you know.

[KDR_11k]

joe: Doesn't mean there aren't enough people buying the games, but piracy helps hardware sales.

[joeamis]

You said they would lose a lot of their customer base.  I'm saying that if they sell so many games, that shows that the overwhelming majority of gamers who own PS2's do not pirate software but rather buy it.  So they wouldn't lose a lot of their customer base, they would lose a small minority.  

[KDR_11k]

Minority doesn't mean a little, though. 10 million would be a minority, but not a minor hit.

Oh, and there's the sale by potential, i.e. someone will buy something because it can do something even though he'll never use it that way. Take online gaming, many people want to have it yet they probably wouldn't use it if they could.

[oohhboy]

Look pal, what am I going to do with HD equipment when there isn't any such signal within 5000 kilometers. We do have digital data streams, but they pretty bad and I see no reason to pay to watch it.

Japan already tried HDTV. That went nowhere.

Besides, HDTV doesn't offer anything over normal TV than increased resolution and congesting the already overflowing airwaves.

[joeamis]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Minority doesn't mean a little, though. 10 million would be a minority, but not a minor hit.

Oh, and there's the sale by potential, i.e. someone will buy something because it can do something even though he'll never use it that way. Take online gaming, many people want to have it yet they probably wouldn't use it if they could.

Minority does mean a little.  And 10 million is not a minority of PS2 users, that's a big percentage.  Anyways there is not 10 million PS2 users who only play pirated software.  Sale by potential doesn't matter, even if they don't end up going online they're still using the system and buy games for it.

[KDR_11k]

Unless there are less than 20 million PS2 users, 10 million IS a minority. Minority says nothing about the absolute size, merely the relative size.

[manunited4eva22]

Quote
No the only thing that needs to go well for it infact is if playstation 3 does half as well as playstation 2 has done, then in 2 years time the burners will be a couple hundred. That doesn't even take into account if any computers use them, and it's looking like that will very well happen since alot of computer companies are already backing Blue-ray. And that doesn't count if it gets used for tv and movie media as well. So, they will definitely be cheap in 2 years.

This is what I am referring to.  You back up ifs with yes it will happen.

BTW can I see a link where Dell and HP say that they will put the burners in desktops? That's really what I would like to see.

I have already said this about 8 times.  Whoever wins out in the next movie disc standard will win the pc market as well.  It's pointless to sell a disc that is going to do you just about nothing.  DVD-RAM went down this course, so did Magneto Optical.  Continuing this debate without further proof gets this no where.

[joeamis]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Unless there are less than 20 million PS2 users, 10 million IS a minority. Minority says nothing about the absolute size, merely the relative size.

No Sh1t it's about relative size, I'm not a little kid.  We were already discussing minority in relativity to the entire userbase, that's why I said minority means a little.  A little in terms of overall userbase.  Isn't there only an installed PS2 userbase of 50 million?  If so then 10 million is 20%.  I admit I was off in saying 10 million is not a minority, but even though it's a minority it's still a big percentage.  It has to do with how you see the degree of minority, for instance when I think of minority the first thing that comes to mind is the different races in the United States, and things like Asians representing only about 4% of the total population.  Given my background I have a more degree'd stance of minority than you or most anyone who lives in Europe.  And the dictionary link you posted, does comment about absolute size: "2. State of being less or small. [Obs.] --Sir T. Browne.", I guess you didn't read every one.  And it seems 50 million may be off, apparently the PS2 userbase is now at 70 million?  Now 10 million really is a minority.  Only 14% now.  (That's closer to minority races in the US, and where my main definition of minority comes from).