Author Topic: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)  (Read 157253 times)

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Offline UncleBob

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Comic AntMan is a lot different than movie AntMan, right?
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Offline Lucario

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movie ant-man is the second ant-man so yeah.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Ant-Man was recruited by Falcon, that's why he was on Team Cap. Stark might not have even known about him.

Cap was down to sign for some sort of regulation, but there was never a debate with the heroes on how that regulation would look, and that's why he was more hesitant to sign.

I'm glad they didn't actually skew the debate, as that would have added unnecessary length to an already long movie.

So to sum it up, they were both in a way right, and both in a way wrong, but Caps blindness due to friendship turned out to be him seeing the truth after all. Bucky was framed, and Cap was in the right top save an innocent man from a kill squad.

Offline Lucario

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He killed tonys parents (even tho the mind control) that's still not innocent.
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Offline Evan_B

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Because Ant Man wants to be a "good guy"

You know, like the majority of the cast.

Seriously, though. The main issue was brushed under the carpet, because it was a Captain America film and those events merely stood as a backdrop. You could have likely pulled off the same story without the Civil War "references" in there.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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He killed tonys parents (even tho the mind control) that's still not innocent.

He was innocent of the crime he was being hunted down for.
He is only partially at fault for all his other crimes, as he was merely the gun being pointed. It was Hydra that loaded that gun, pointed it and then pulled the trigger.

Offline lesavit7

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He's still partially responsible for being there.

Offline UncleBob

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I don't think Tony, who is willingly responsible for the creation of an army of killer robots that destroyed a country and killed hundreds(?) really has *any* right to be upset at some poor smuck that basically died defending his country and his broken, battered body was recovered and brainwashed by Hydra.

Honestly, this was my least favorite part of the movie.  Tony should have came to that realization, and instead of the epic battle between him, Cap and Bucky, they should have teamed up and beat the crap out of Zemo, with a grand speech about how the Avengers are awesome BFFs and not going to let some jerk tear them apart.  Granted, I liked the more somber note the movie ended on, since it really opens the universe up in my opinion, but yeah, Tony was totally in the wrong at the end, no question.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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UncleBob:  If it was his father I think he might have.  But it was his mother who he loved.

Honestly, you could say a similar thing about Steve Rogers.  Look at what Bucky has done...yes brainwashed, but still he is a weapon.  He killed several innocent people.

The story arc of Tony Stark has always been one of regret for his past life and mistakes and how despite trying to do good, seemingly repeating the same mistakes.  His fatal flaw is he is completely emotionally reactionary.  He is brilliant given the time to think and work, but having to respond to his emotions he fails every time. 

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
« Reply #59 on: June 17, 2016, 01:48:11 AM »
Finally watched it!

- Cap should have just put Bucky in a medically induced coma instead of running around the world with him blowing stuff up. The Winter Solider is dangerous like a Psychotic on Bath Salts.

- Tony should have known better than to get into bed with a hastily written law that could easily be turned into totalitarianism against super heroes. (and kinda was)

- Why were Hawkeye and Widow even fighting?

- I think if Bucky had been wilfully killing people for years, Captain America would have still made excuses for him. Bucky was the last person alive from the world he once knew. His last connection to home. Just like he admitted he didn't tell Tony about who murdered his parents for himself, he was defending Bucky for himself.

- The CG on young Tony was really good!

- Spiderman was cool, I think Aunt May looked a little too hot though ;)

- Black Panther was great. I would have liked if they put in the Captain America-WWII connection.

- I'm glad Zemo is still alive, They kill off the bad guys too easily in these movies.

- Was there one after credits scene or two? I only watched the prison break.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2016, 03:28:44 AM »
There was another. You get to follow T'Challa & Cap as they put Bucky under in Wakanda.

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
« Reply #61 on: June 17, 2016, 10:02:51 AM »
I think I saw that part too, it was before the credits. With the big Panther statue?

Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2016, 12:09:39 PM »
Yes, post-credits scene was Peter Parker back at home discovering some type of communication device along with the Spider Symbol inside the web shooters that Tony Stark made for him.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2016, 08:33:22 PM »
Yes, post-credits scene was Peter Parker back at home discovering some type of communication device along with the Spider Symbol inside the web shooters that Tony Stark made for him.

Oh yeah, that was the 2nd one... my bad.

it was some version of this:



I think I saw that part too, it was before the credits. With the big Panther statue?

as far as the giant Panther statue...

« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 08:38:20 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Stratos

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
« Reply #64 on: September 19, 2016, 06:49:02 PM »
So in anticipation for both Luke Cage and Dr Strange I am updating our spoiler alert thread.


Dr Strange synopsis:


Dr. Stephen Strange (Benedict Cumberbatch), a young, arrogant surgeon with a promising career, loses his ability to operate after a terrible accident. Despondent and suicidal, Dr. Strange seeks advice from a mystical being known as the Ancient One and learns that he is the newly designated Sorcerer Supreme, responsible for protecting the planet from evil. With his girlfriend Clea and his loyal assistant Wong in tow, Strange sets out to fulfill his destiny.


We are almost to the release of Luke Cage as well. I never finished JJ so I'd better get on that before this since it take place after JJ S1.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2016, 09:10:48 AM »

we know when the story starts, but not where it ends.

The story starts around the time of civil war. They mention a man in experimental armor getting injured, that is Falcon

When it ends? Not sure. Dr. Strange is a fast learner. I don't know if it takes him years to learn this stuff or weeks. I think he has a convo with Rachel Macadams that reveals how much time has passed, but not sure.


nope.
It mostly likely starts around the time of IronMan 2, and the man in the experimental Armor is probably a guy wearing the Hammer IM knock off suit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz1M5i5Y4Qc&feature=youtu.be&t=1m50s

Some of the events (or the entire movie) had to be taking place during or before The Winter Soldier, which is why Hydra thought Doctor Strange to be a threat worthy of mentioning by name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGpz8Q4Jq6A

But they did a terrible job of placing this movie in the timeline, or conveying how much time was passing, because as you said, we don't know if his training took weeks, months, or even years.
Just knowing that it had to of started around IM2, and possibly ended around TWS means years had passed, but they way training, and the final battle took place, you would think it all happened rather quickly.

and the movie wasn't that long, so if I could play armchair director, i would make a few changes:

1: I would have dropped subtle hints about the year i the beginning. His invitation to the speaking engagement being the annual award dinner of 2010 or something. (this is very minor though, not that important, other than to establish the placement of this movie in the timeline)

2: His montage of looking for a cure, and not being to use his hands just a minute or 2 longer. Show more of him getting frustrated because he couldn't even hold peas on his fork or something. A few more failed doctor visits, alternative methods, etc etc. show the trip to TAO as an absolute last resort and final ditch effort. Not that this was portrayed poorly, but more so to really show how desperate, selfish, and verbally abusive he was.

3: Give Kaecilius 3-5 more minutes of development, setting up his plans, recruiting and explaining his desires. Maybe deciphering the pages he had read or more to the connection ritual so we have more insight on his point of view and give his character a little more depth. Maybe a quick scene where he also took over and blew up the Tokyo Sanctum.

4: Add a few seasons changing to a montage of Strange continually getting his ass handed to him or just failing during training, and the later half showing him exceeding the students next to him.
I actually would have shown him show up to training in astral projection form, and had Mordo come wake his physical form and make him physically come to training. I think that would have been funny, and shown that Strange has progressed so far, that he is now doing all this in his sleep. This would have also doubled as letting Mordo show off some.

5: Fastforward through a montage of Strange deaths, dozens upon dozens of them, a few of them were he seems to dodge attacks, or not die instantly. for one to show that it wasn't 10 attempts before Dormammu gave in, and two, to show just how dedicated Strange was to this selfless act. Maybe even a scene in the middle of it where Dormammu tries to leave, and Strange follows him while trying to bargain in his ear. Dormammu kills him out of annoyance, and then back to the rest of the fastforward death montage.

I know that we know that it was probably days worth of attacks before Dormammu gave in to Strange's terms, but the general audience walked away thinking what was shown was it.
same issue with the training. I think it would have helped the movie to to add maybe a total of 10 or so minutes to add the stuff above. The movie was only like 1hr 52 minutes or something like that, and the 1st two suggestion are minor, but to include another 10 minutes to add depth to Strange, Mordo, Kaecilius and Dormammu would have been more than worth it.

Overall I liked the movie, but I think those few changes could have improved things a lot.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 09:50:16 AM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Plugabugz

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2016, 04:50:39 PM »
I think the movie was intended to sit outside the existing timeline in the same way how Guardians did.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2016, 04:56:29 PM »
woah you've traversed threads!

edit: I also wanted to add two hours later, that i'm glad that you did because I was looking for a reply in the wrong thread.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 06:27:34 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
« Reply #68 on: November 07, 2016, 06:28:28 PM »
BnM:  I agree with much of your points.  However, we don't know if those scenes were filmed and cut for time.  I especially agree that they should have spent more time with Stephen Strange the Doctor before and after his wreck.  However, this film was already bordering on dark and depressing, so I am OK with them spending less time with some of the material.

I also, understand your point with the final battle, but we saw MANY different deaths and styles of deaths, and time is relative...perhaps it doesn't matter how much time took place.  Remember Dormammu exists without time and death...being trapped in any amount of time and loop could have been torture for him.  He may not even have known or experienced time and the effects of time like we understand them, so being restrained by time could have been maddening. 

Offline ThePerm

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
« Reply #69 on: November 07, 2016, 08:19:08 PM »
Also, I had it backwards I meant War Machine not Falcon. Which, really puts into perspective how similar their characters are.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2016, 08:47:23 PM »
Also, I had it backwards I meant War Machine not Falcon. Which, really puts into perspective how similar their characters are.

Which is perhaps why War Machine was taken out in Civil War, I predict the character won't be focused on very much anymore in the movies.  I am also curious who Disney will choose to replace Captain America when the actor leaves or the character eventually dies.  Falcon or Winter Soldier?  Both have been Captain America, and both could be Captain America in the future.  I honestly have no preference, however I think Falcon would be a better fit, because once Steve Rogers is gone the Bucky story line is basically gone as well.  Really the best thing they can do is have Bucky to save Steve or vice versa but have a very emotional end to both. 

Offline ThePerm

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2016, 09:00:13 PM »
The main problem with Chris Evans ever leaving the role of Captain America is he is going to keep getting handed amazing scripts.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
« Reply #72 on: November 08, 2016, 12:44:38 AM »
I loved the film, but felt the pacing for the first half was too fast. BnM really hit the nail on the head for where they should have added a bit more to the film. This is possibly the first Marvel film where I have wished for a Peter Jackson/Lord of the Rings style extended edition to release on DVD.


But it did not detract from my enjoyment of the film, more it did it's job of leaving me hungry for more. I especially liked how they handled the cloak of levitation. Felt like it had the spirit of Aladdin's magic carpet.


I read some reviews that stated the humor wasn't entirely on point, but the theater seems to laugh at all of the funny moments and I thought it was well done.


I did almost wish for Strange to be a bit more faulted in the beginning, but too much could have turned people off of him. Not everyone wants to go through a brutal Game of Thrones Jamie Lanister "hate him then like him" character arc.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
« Reply #73 on: November 08, 2016, 02:09:19 AM »
BnM:  I agree with much of your points.  However, we don't know if those scenes were filmed and cut for time.  I especially agree that they should have spent more time with Stephen Strange the Doctor before and after his wreck.  However, this film was already bordering on dark and depressing, so I am OK with them spending less time with some of the material.

I'll probably watch it again, but it just seemed like they were rushing to the visual wizardry on this one. They didn't need to get graphic or get too dark, but they could have just spent a little more time showing just how desperate and hopeless he was to spend his last coins on spiritual healing after modern medicine ultimately failed him.

Quote
I also, understand your point with the final battle, but we saw MANY different deaths and styles of deaths, and time is relative...perhaps it doesn't matter how much time took place.  Remember Dormammu exists without time and death...being trapped in any amount of time and loop could have been torture for him.  He may not even have known or experienced time and the effects of time like we understand them, so being restrained by time could have been maddening. 

Yeah, I get that, but I'm thinking from a general audience perspective. I actually think the scenarios i thought up for the boss battle (and the training) would have taken that entertainingly inventive scene and made it a hilariously inventive one, yet only added about 2-4 minutes to the run of the film. But I guess we can hold out hope for deleted scenes.... I guess.

I loved the film, but felt the pacing for the first half was too fast. BnM really hit the nail on the head for where they should have added a bit more to the film. This is possibly the first Marvel film where I have wished for a Peter Jackson/Lord of the Rings style extended edition to release on DVD.

But it did not detract from my enjoyment of the film, more it did it's job of leaving me hungry for more. I especially liked how they handled the cloak of levitation. Felt like it had the spirit of Aladdin's magic carpet.

Yes. the Cloak was quite the character. and it probably would't have hurt if they could have had a few moments more to explore more artifacts in the NY Sanctorum before Kaecilius arrived...

But Aladdins carpet is a very on the nose comparison

Quote
I read some reviews that stated the humor wasn't entirely on point, but the theater seems to laugh at all of the funny moments and I thought it was well done.

I did almost wish for Strange to be a bit more faulted in the beginning, but too much could have turned people off of him. Not everyone wants to go through a brutal Game of Thrones Jamie Lanister "hate him then like him" character arc.

Lots of the humor didn't really hit me, but when Wong finally started laughing, that made me laugh pretty hard.
and the point I was hoping they would push to for Strange was not so dark that you hate him, but show him so broken, miserable, desperate, helpless and lost, that you actually start to feel bad for him... even though he was being a total dick about everything like it was everyone elses fault.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
« Reply #74 on: November 08, 2016, 06:33:12 AM »
BlackNMild:  I agree some seasons passing and giving us more time with him training would be good.  And if they needed to give us even some time with the other Doctor so you can see she is still struggling with losing Stephen...perhaps show her still researching cures and medical procedures herself...that is if you are worried the time would draw them further apart.

A few seasons changes during training could also be used to show even more trippy magic visuals and how just how devoted and how long Strange studied.  Personally, I would have loved him learning to manipulate time to study more as well...but perhaps that trick was already done in Harry Potter.

I strongly disagree with putting humor in the last battle scene by extending it at all.  Or showing some fast forward or anything to make that scene funny.  That is Doctor Strange's hero moment.  That is where he decides to be fully committed and devoted to being a hero and how he what kind of hero he was going to be.  It is very important in this movie Strange chose to solve the problem without killing.  This is very different than any other Super Hero movie.  In fact, his fighting was almost purely self defense, and he disengaged the "henchman" to fight the big bad.  This moment needed to have weight and be long enough for the audience to realize and understand the death loop sacrifice.  At this moment Doctor Strange was becoming a Christ figure in the movie.  He was preventing "Satan" from claiming the Earth through His death and "resurrection."