Author Topic: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)  (Read 157256 times)

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Offline Evan_B

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Didn't Marvel already negotiate the Fantastic Four rights back from Fox?
It was rumored, and debunked.

If War Machine had died, Tony would have no one to blame but himself. The Vision is his creation, and Rhodey chose to pursue Steve and Bucky. It would have been a freak accident. Hell, it was. But brushing away Rhodes' current fate is a little lenient, as well- sure, Stark can just "build him some new legs", but he has had something taken from him that can never be replaced, and will have to live out the remainder of his life with that in mind. All for trying to **** with Captain America.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Didn't Marvel already negotiate the Fantastic Four rights back from Fox?
It was rumored, and debunked.

If War Machine had died, Tony would have no one to blame but himself. The Vision is his creation, and Rhodey chose to pursue Steve and Bucky. It would have been a freak accident. Hell, it was. But brushing away Rhodes' current fate is a little lenient, as well- sure, Stark can just "build him some new legs", but he has had something taken from him that can never be replaced, and will have to live out the remainder of his life with that in mind. All for trying to **** with Captain America.

I take it you sided with Team Cap.  I sided with Team Stark.  I think Captain America was the irrational one.  Yes, it was a freak accident, and Rhodey was in pursuit.  In fact, I think the scene with Tony working with the robotic legs was to help the audience now how they should feel about that "casuality" of war.  It was a great scene. 

Offline UncleBob

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Not to get too political - but there should have been some middle ground between turning the Avengers over to the UN and being a wholly independent organization.

I'm amused that Tony was so on-board with the accords when it was 100% because of the events of Avengers 2.  And what happened in AoU wouldn't have really been averted by these accords.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Didn't Marvel already negotiate the Fantastic Four rights back from Fox?

Only speculated, nothing to even base a credible rumor on from what I've seen. But I mention it in the OP & last post of the MCU thread
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 11:33:29 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Evan_B

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I take it you sided with Team Cap.  I sided with Team Stark.  I think Captain America was the irrational one.  Yes, it was a freak accident, and Rhodey was in pursuit.  In fact, I think the scene with Tony working with the robotic legs was to help the audience now how they should feel about that "casuality" of war.  It was a great scene. 
With the title being "Captain America: Civil War", I went with the side that was A) right, B) had the cooler team, and C) didn't endanger the youth of the superhero community by throwing him into a massive battle with some of the most dangerous and skilled individuals in known existence.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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1) Both Steve and Tony were wrong, and right.
2)  Steve is wrong that they should not have checks and balances.
3)  Tony is more right than wrong, but his methods were questionable.
4) Steve's motives were right and pure, but his attitude was wrong and dangerous.
5) Tony's team was pretty badass.  Spiderman and Black Panther and Vision...they are all A listers.
6) Steve could have TRIED to reach out to Tony before the big fight.  But no, he just says he won't listen.  How about making a compromise.  I will turn myself in, but please lets help look into this bigger issue. 
7) Tony never believed the airport battle was going to happen...and his team was pulling their punches...both teams were. 

No, both teams were wrong, but I sided with Tony Stark more.  The world doesn't need a team of super heroes going about the world doing whatever they want.

Offline Evan_B

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But Cap smashed Tony's Arc Reactor in the end, so I sided with the team that WON.

As we all know in these affairs, to the victor goes the spoils.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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5) Tony's team was pretty badass.  Spiderman and Black Panther and Vision...they are all A listers.

One correction... Black Panther was never on Tony's team. He was always on his own. His one singular goal was to get to Bucky, he had no interest in anything else at the time of the big fight. In fact he was the only one out with the intention of actually hurting anyone.

Offline elvshaunt2

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I just hope he would have his own movie next year.

Offline UncleBob

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One correction... Black Panther was never on Tony's team. He was always on his own.

Eh...  Black Widow made a comment with regards to recruiting him in the conversation she and Tony had when Tony mentioned recruiting Spider-Man.  I mean, they were pretty loosely-defined teams anyway...

C) didn't endanger the youth of the superhero community by throwing him into a massive battle with some of the most dangerous and skilled individuals in known existence.

Eh... Scarlet Witch is young and inexperienced.  Sure, she's potentially one of the most powerful mutants Inhumans? around, but she's still young, barely knows how to control her powers and is still controlled by her base emotions.

Also - AntMan.  Not "young", but totally naive and, unless there were some more stories untold between AntMan and Civil War, the dude never should have been put up against Tony's team.
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Watched the film never read the comics. They made reference to Hulk and Thor in the film. I get why Thor might not get involved due to the fact he is a being from another world and all but where is Hulk? Can he just no take a side because when he turns into the big guy the sides get blurry ad he just smashes?

Also loved stan lee's cameo "Tony Stank"  ;D
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Thor is off in Asgard, so he's probably completely unaware of any of this conflict, and Hulk took off to be alone somewhere, so he is probably equally unaware of most of what's going on as well.

He could be in Tahiti sipping mojitos at a beach side bar watching this play out from the parts that were covered on live tv news for all we know.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 10:03:44 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Stratos

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He could be in Tahiti sipping mojitos at a bead side car watching this play out from the parts that were covered on live tv news for all we know.


Right next to Nick Fury, right? ;)
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Offline Plugabugz

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It seems the TV/Netflix series have split completely off from the movies. The events of SHIELD should have fed back up into the movies, not the other way around.

Especially with Hive who can run around potentially controlling/killing all of them (not sure about Vision though?)

Offline UncleBob

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I can forgive it.  The events in SHIELD are pretty low profile/under the radar and the events in the movie probably occured over a few days.  HIVE's resources are probably pretty limited, so he's probably playing the long game with plans to go after the megas once he has an established army.

More concerning, why hasn't Coulson called up Cap or Tony for help against HIVE?  I mean, he's a pretty world-ending threat level.  Seems like the kind of thing the Avengers were assembled for.

As for Hulk...  I'm sure Natasha and/or Cap knows right where he is.  I'm sure, as Natasha alluded to - neither one wants him in a fight.  Everyone was still friends, in spite of the job they had to do.  Plug Hulk into the battle and a crippled War Machine is likely to be the least worst outcome.
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Offline Lucario

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Best argument for registration, would you let superheroes' run-around without any laws in real life?
No you wouldn't so why do these people support team cap?
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Offline Stratos

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But what laws are appropriate? And who would the governing body be? I can think of a number of people who would not want to see the UN control them exclusively. And what sort of enforcement and punishments are in place? Even if registration is "right" are the Sokovia Accords the best way to deal with the issue?


Laws pushed through in haste with the best of intentions tend to have unseen negative consequences down the road. Look at the DMCA and the ACA in America, these laws meant well, but there are some issues with them because of how they were passed through without enough thought into what the long term effects would be.
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Offline UncleBob

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Best argument for registration, would you let superheroes' run-around without any laws in real life?
No you wouldn't so why do these people support team cap?

We do have to tread carefully as not to break the "No politics" rule, but Stratos is right.  I agree that I wouldn't want super-powered individuals running around unchecked and without laws designed to protect 'us' from 'them' - but I don't think the Accords offered up in Civil War are the way to go.  Obviously, can't say for sure (A.) They don't exist and B.) I can't read the giant manual in-full), but the fact that they were trying to pin the destruction in New York and Washington on the Avengers tells me they probably weren't looking at it properly.  You have an alien army attacking the Earth with essentially no prep-time and no warning and when a government-like entity did try and get involved, their answer was to nuke the place, killing everyone in the area and causing irreparable damage - yeah, the damage done "by" the Avengers pales in comparison.
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Offline ThePerm

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The thing with Agent Coulson...are the avengers even aware he isn't dead? I don't remember if he was on winter soldier or not.
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Offline oohhboy

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The thing with Agent Coulson...are the avengers even aware he isn't dead? I don't remember if he was on winter soldier or not.
Not at all. He gets "Promoted" aka, TV show. AOS references things and the odd actor makes a video phone call. Also wouldn't shut up about New York.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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By now, I'm sure they all know, and probably just don't really care. LOL

Lady Sif knows, which means she could have told Thor. Agent Colbie knows, so she could have told Stark or Banner.
BW and Clint ate both spies and not stupid, so I'm sure they know SHIELD is still operating and Coulson is running it... They have connections, but probably no direct means of contact, nor a need to seek him out.

Offline Stogi

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I saw it and if I had to some it up in a word, I'd call it "satisfying".

It had me worried about half way through about the should we/shouldn't we argument not really carrying any weight for a cataclysmic climax. So I was glad and surprised to see it focus on something a bit more primal, vengeance, instead.

That last scene of them fighting Tony was incredible. Absolutely perfect.

Now the film does have problems. One big one is that the debate is never truly debated. They had one scene and Tony gave a couple quips about Aliens and Ultron, but where is footage of other inhumans or heroes breaking things and killing people? Vision mentioned how Ironman started a movement, but there was no footage of it. Where is Cap saying that the government wanted to nuke an American city? Where is Tony talking about relief funds for Avenger ****-ups? Where is Black Widow talking about how governments can't be trusted due to first-hand experience? What about how Hydra infiltrated Shield? Could that happen again? Why is Antman not on Tony's side? Wasn't he trying to fly straight and see his girl? Where are the average citizen protests? Other than one mother, we saw nothing of the citizenry getting pissed off.

All in all, it made for a real lack of conflict. It never truly felt like they were fighting one another with conviction and that's why the last scene is so great. That conflict felt real and therefore, so did the fight.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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I saw it and if I had to some it up in a word, I'd call it "satisfying".

It had me worried about half way through about the should we/shouldn't we argument not really carrying any weight for a cataclysmic climax. So I was glad and surprised to see it focus on something a bit more primal, vengeance, instead.

That last scene of them fighting Tony was incredible. Absolutely perfect.

Now the film does have problems. One big one is that the debate is never truly debated. They had one scene and Tony gave a couple quips about Aliens and Ultron, but where is footage of other inhumans or heroes breaking things and killing people? Vision mentioned how Ironman started a movement, but there was no footage of it. Where is Cap saying that the government wanted to nuke an American city? Where is Tony talking about relief funds for Avenger ****-ups? Where is Black Widow talking about how governments can't be trusted due to first-hand experience? What about how Hydra infiltrated Shield? Could that happen again? Why is Antman not on Tony's side? Wasn't he trying to fly straight and see his girl? Where are the average citizen protests? Other than one mother, we saw nothing of the citizenry getting pissed off.

All in all, it made for a real lack of conflict. It never truly felt like they were fighting one another with conviction and that's why the last scene is so great. That conflict felt real and therefore, so did the fight.

Honestly, I think it wasn't debated because Steve Rogers has no legs to stand up.  Last movie he was against an agency having free reign to do whatever he wants.  He wants freedom and not to be put in check, but he doesn't want others to have the same.  The reason is understandable, he doesn't trust organizations, but he does trust people.

However, the more you get into the logistics of a team like the Avengers you realize Tony Stark is right.  I liked how Steve is blinded by his own friendship to see where he is wrong.  And how Tony is blinded by his own vengeance in the end to see reason. 

 

Offline UncleBob

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Wait, why would AntMan be on Tony's side?
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Offline Lucario

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He was in the comic
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