Author Topic: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact. (Read 15975 times)

18 Days · « **on:** November 30, 2006, 12:52:54 AM »

I think I've reached breaking point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Some guy
...a good traditional Mana game would be nice ;_;
When was the last one of these? Oh yeah NEVER.

Mana games have never been good. You go back, you play Zelda: Link to the Past these days and it's not that good. And here's the thing, Link to the Past was better than Secret of Mana in just about every way. And while the Zelda series has gone on to be one of the strongest franchises in gaming. It's constantly pushing the frontiers of game design and remains in the upper echelon of not just it's own genre but video games as a form of interactive art. Mana games on the other hand, originally Zelda with stats, have floundered about like a lost puppy waiting to die, kept alive by meager sales from confused and disillusioned fans, eyes clouded by nostalgia. Even I was suckered into this. I bought Sword of Mana the day it came out. I'll give it a quick review right here: Mindless garbage, score: No Fist*.

Just face it guys. The series is a joke, it's not getting any better, and these tenuously related games wouldn't sell at all if they didn't have 'Mana' tacked onto their name somewhere.

* The Fist scoring system I use is quite simple.
Double Fist: Excellent games
Fist: Good games
No Fist: Poor games
Weak: Rubbish

JonLeung · « **Reply #1 on:** November 30, 2006, 01:18:01 AM »

Wow, that's just asking for flaming.

I recently played Legend Of Mana and Children Of Mana. Okay, Children was tedious at times due to the nature of that game's areas, and it's really hard for to beat the awesomeness that I remember Secret having, but I still enjoyed it. In any case, all the Mana games look really good. Good art direction and lots of colour. It's hard to believe that the Mana series was once considered a sort of "Final Fantasy Gaiden", a side story series to Final Fantasy, when it's created an identity of its own.

You know how all the Mana games are called "_____ of Mana" and how all the Tales games are called "Tales of _____"? Bandai Namco and Square-Enix should team up (a BandaiNamcoSquareEnix production!) and make "Tales Of Mana". Just because.

nitsu niflheim · « **Reply #2 on:** November 30, 2006, 01:20:10 AM »

Children of Mana is horrible. I hate it, and stopped playing it. Legend of Mana was just as bad. I actually liked Sword of Mana, but it wasn't anything special.

Hey Rab. =D

I am getting Dawn of Mana, but I think I will pass on the Mana tactics game.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #3 on:** November 30, 2006, 01:25:01 AM »

You go back, you play Zelda: Link to the Past these days and it's not that good.

YOU are not that good! 2d Zelda is great kthxbye.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #4 on:** November 30, 2006, 01:37:49 AM »

Wow, I will agree that the Mana games weren't great. The idea behind them that made them cool was multiplayer Zelda type game...but the reliance of magic and that stupid magic system from Secret of Mana made it unplayable in multiplayer.

BUT LINK THE PAST BAD!?!

To me that is one of the best Zelda games ever created.

Personally, I don't trust anything modern that Square does anymore. Most of it is crap in my opinion. However, I do wish that the original SNES Secret of Mana 2 game that was released in Japan would be translated and released on the virtual console.

To me that is a must.

nitsu niflheim · « **Reply #5 on:** November 30, 2006, 01:41:36 AM »

There's always the other VC (PC

) for SoM 2, and it's already translated, too!

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #6 on:** November 30, 2006, 01:48:15 AM »

That's okay, 18 Days likes Starfox Command...That means her opinion is moot!

Arbok · « **Reply #7 on:** November 30, 2006, 03:55:32 AM »

I never played a Mana game so perhaps I'm not the target here... but I stopped reading after "you play Zelda: Link to the Past these days and it's not that good."

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
That's okay, 18 Days likes Starfox Command...That means her opinion is moot!

You mean his?

Ian Sane · « **Reply #8 on:** November 30, 2006, 05:24:17 AM »

"You go back, you play Zelda: Link to the Past these days and it's not that good. And here's the thing, Link to the Past was better than Secret of Mana in just about every way."

While I agree that Secret of Mana is inferior, LttP is awesome. My only gripes against it are that Link walks too slowly (thus you can't effectively run from battle if your health is low) and that I just personally like Link's Awakening better. But every few years myself or one of my brothers replays LttP and it hasn't aged a bit. The walking thing is a problem I always had with it. It is still one of the best games ever made.

I do agree Mana is a weak series though. I don't really SoM all that much but then I really don't get into Zelda clones all that well because they never quite get it right. But for the most part Mana games aren't all that hot. There basically is one classic game in the series (maybe two if the Japan-only SNES one is great) and that's it. I also think that Secret of Mana gets a little overrated because it comes from a time period where Square was just on fire.

Kairon · « **Reply #9 on:** November 30, 2006, 09:57:53 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: 18 Days
You go back, you play Zelda: Link to the Past these days and it's not that good.

I stopped reading right there.

Seriously. Made of friggin' PHAIL.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Smoke39 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 30, 2006, 12:28:22 PM »

I don't think LttP is all that good. o:

Athrun Zala · « **Reply #11 on:** November 30, 2006, 12:47:19 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
You go back, you play Zelda: Link to the Past these days and it's not that good.

YOU are not that good! 2d Zelda is great kthxbye.

QTF

smoke is made of PHAIL as well....

couchmonkey · « **Reply #12 on:** December 01, 2006, 03:57:05 AM »

The only fact here is that Zelda is better than Secret of Mana. Both are still good games.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #13 on:** December 01, 2006, 08:02:03 AM »

I agree, but I think people are taking her points in the wrong direction.

The point is, the Mana series and Zelda series were founded on the same principles: real-time RPGs, only Mana has levels while Zelda has hearts, weapon upgrades and emphasis on puzzle-solving. Zelda has evolved, transitioned beautifully into 3D and still remains one of the most respected and incredible franchises of all time while Mana has dwindled and gone downhill.

I've finished LttP, it was a great game, but I'll be the first to say that OoT blows it clean out of the goddamn water. The immersion in OoT, the beauty of the ocarina melodies, the dark urgency...all of it came together to make the game feel truly epic in a way that LttP couldn't hope to touch, but that's fine because OoT is the next evolution of LttP.

My first Mana game was SD3 which I loved. CoM, however, was a simple Diablo clone which was so bland and repetitive that I sold it back in less than a week. I don't know who the assclown at Square was who thought that people would enjoy walking through the same level 5-6 times pressing the same button over and over again but he should be fired. The story took a back seat and felt tacked on, as though it had no bearing on anything that was actually happening.

Just once, I want a multiplayer RPG which tells an excellent story but allows each one of my friends to control a different character. It seems that developers see multiplayer as a substitute for a compelling storyline and that just sucks. As clichéd as the Tales of Symphonia storyline was, it was still light-years beyond anything else I've seen and the mutliplayer combat, minus the camera focusing only on one player, was SUPERB. My friend and I actually worked out our strategies so that we could time our comboing attacks and keep most bosses stunlocked for the entire duration of a fight.

In CoM, even when playing multiplayer, you might as well be playing alone. The gameplay is immensely easy and all additional players do is get in each other's way. I much preferred SD3 where a second player could simply pick up the other controller and the two of you could explore the world, visit towns and play the entire game together, not be confined to a lone "resupply" area and work your way through bland dungeons with the same easy enemies over and over and a storyline which was so transparent it could have been in written entirely in sanskrit because of how little you cared.

Hell, GC Four Swords was was CoM SHOULD have been...

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #14 on:** December 01, 2006, 08:07:35 AM »

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Originally posted by: Arbok
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
That's okay, 18 Days likes Starfox Command...That means her opinion is moot!

You mean his?

Nah, "her" fits him just fine...

KDR_11k · « **Reply #15 on:** December 01, 2006, 08:14:12 PM »

The point is, the Mana series and Zelda series were founded on the same principles: real-time RPGs

Um, no. Zelda was founded on the idea of an action game with exploration and puzzles. It's as much of an RPG as Metroid. Zelda 2 may be counted as an RPG if RPG means experience points, stats and random encounters to you.

I've finished LttP, it was a great game, but I'll be the first to say that OoT blows it clean out of the goddamn water.

OOT is an aggravating exercise at frustration, LttP is a great action game where you can actually see what you're doing. OOT has huge empty fields and boring day/night cycles, LttP has a full world map and interesting stuff everywhere.

The immersion in OoT, the beauty of the ocarina melodies, the dark urgency...[!i]

The stupid camera, low framerate, 90% boring music and the darkness that won't let you see crap...

Amodaus1 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 02, 2006, 03:28:37 AM »

I agree alot with KDR about OoT, but i think your going a bit to far with critism of OoT. But your dead on with the large open fields filled with boring. LttP is superior to OoT, it really is. However, i'm hard pressed to draw a choice between the new Zelda and Lttp. TP is truly an exellent game, the likes of which i haven't seen in a while.

Kairon · « **Reply #17 on:** December 02, 2006, 04:45:46 AM »

Yeah, LttP is technically superior to OoT in my mind just because of the tightness of the world design... but that's really just one rubric with which to measure a game. It IS subjective to say "better than" after all.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

P.S. Just because it's subjective doesn't mean that you people aren't made of PHAIL though. You are. That is truth.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #18 on:** December 02, 2006, 05:55:58 AM »

MM and SD3 for the win.

close thread.

Kairon · « **Reply #19 on:** December 02, 2006, 06:01:19 AM »

Man, I HATED Seiken Densetsu 3. Such a letdown from Secret of Mana. It got rid of the ring menu, it slowed down combat, and it diluted the general experience completely.

The closest thing I've played to SoM in a long while has been Rocket Slime, and as cool as that was, it was still a minor twinkle in the utter brilliance of SoM.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Smoke39 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 02, 2006, 06:26:25 AM »

I've been playing through Majora's Mask again, and I'll agree that what I remember of OoT seems kinda barren in comparison. But LttP is just dull and unappealing to me. Link's Awakening was the best 2D Zelda game.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #21 on:** December 02, 2006, 08:02:38 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k Um, no. Zelda was founded on the idea of an action game with exploration and puzzles. It's as much of an RPG as Metroid.

Actually, they both fit under the heading of "adventure game".

Quote
OOT is an aggravating exercise at frustration, LttP is a great action game where you can actually see what you're doing. OOT has huge empty fields and boring day/night cycles, LttP has a full world map and interesting stuff everywhere.

You might want to steer clear of Twilight Princess then because those HUGE fields and boring day/night cycles are...GASP...BACK!!!

Quote
The stupid camera, low framerate, 90% boring music and the darkness that won't let you see crap...

Talk about scraping the barrel... If I had had any sort of trouble with anything you listed here, I might be inclined to give you some credence, but I haven't.

Come up with some legitimate comparisons and then maybe we'll talk.

Strell · « **Reply #22 on:** December 02, 2006, 08:12:03 AM »

All Zelda games are awesome. Even The Adventure of Link.

Secret of Mana is awesome. Legend of Mana was okay. Everything else after that doesn't seem so hot.

Discussion over.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #23 on:** December 02, 2006, 02:35:43 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Man, I HATED Seiken Densetsu 3. Such a letdown from Secret of Mana. It got rid of the ring menu, it slowed down combat, and it diluted the general experience completely.

The closest thing I've played to SoM in a long while has been Rocket Slime, and as cool as that was, it was still a minor twinkle in the utter brilliance of SoM.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

The fact that you said SD3 does NOT have a ring menu shows you did NOT play "Seiken Densetsu 3." You probably played Sword of Mana or some other PSX rubbish. You have no right to revisit this thread.

Discussion over x2.

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 02, 2006, 02:56:19 PM »

Anyone that even DARES to think crap about OoT should be castrated, have their arms and legs ripped off clean, their internal organs re-arranged and ripped of their hearts, then show it to them before they die...

And yeah SB, Four swords was a fun romp...

DEATH OF TINGLE, FTW!

Smoke39 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 02, 2006, 04:06:34 PM »

I like Tingle in MM. He's funny. I don't really like him in the other games he's appeared in.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #26 on:** December 02, 2006, 06:23:22 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Anyone that even DARES to think crap about OoT should be castrated, have their arms and legs ripped off clean, their internal organs re-arranged and ripped of their hearts, then show it to them before they die...

Well, I wanted to be nice about it, but yes, this is indeed my opinion on the subject.

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 02, 2006, 07:11:48 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Anyone that even DARES to think crap about OoT should be castrated, have their arms and legs ripped off clean, their internal organs re-arranged and ripped of their hearts, then show it to them before they die...

Well, I wanted to be nice about it, but yes, this is indeed my opinion on the subject.

Believe me when I say that out of ALL the games I've ever played in my life time OoT is one of the few I have a STRONG emotional attachment to.

It was my first Zelda game and it was one I shall never forget. Like you said, everything from the Ocarina songs to the sense of urgency as you see the world around you destroyed added to the entire experiences. The moment you come out of the temple as Adult Link and see the once lively Market place turned into a dark, zombie infested hell hole is one I shall never forget. It was the first game to truly capture my imagination. I ate, slept, drank, talked, thought, draw, sung and even laughed Zelda like a maniac.

Even if Majora's Mask didn't capture that same feeling, it definitely captured my heart and created fears in my mind. To this day its the only game to have given me nightmares FOR WEEKS. The character interaction was near perfect, and the story was very good. It made you go closer to these characters.

Which is why I was so disappointed with Wind waker. It was cute and the gameplay was fun, but the rushed feeling combined with the lively but shallow graphics ruined the game for me.

I am PRAYING that Twilight Princess offers an emotional experience similar to OoT and MM.

Now I am getting way off topic, but I get very touchy when it comes to OoT because of strong emotional attachment I have towards it.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #28 on:** December 02, 2006, 07:38:02 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64 Now I am getting way off topic, but I get very touchy when it comes to OoT because of strong emotional attachment I have towards it.

Same, and yes, TP is likewise a very emotional game.

And yes, SD3 had the ring system. It's been a while since I played it, but I do remember it.

I still can't get over how bad CoM was, though. It's like they ripped off Diablo except the part where it was fun.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #29 on:** December 02, 2006, 09:19:41 PM »

Maybe I'm too jaded and reading game mechanics like a book now but I don't sense urgency unless there's a countdown on the screen because I just know the game isn't keeping track of how long I take.

Maybe it's because I wasn't a kid anymore when I played OOT but it didn't invoke many emotions in me besides thinking "what an awful idea" when I saw the shoddily prerendered backgrounds. Maybe it's the lack of amazement about "OMG 3D!" that makes the game unenjoyable to me or maybe it's because I played Wind Waker first.

S-U-P-E-R · « **Reply #30 on:** December 03, 2006, 01:19:48 AM »

So, wait... did you not have any friends to play SoM with or what?

18 Days · « **Reply #31 on:** December 03, 2006, 02:05:06 AM »

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
That's okay, 18 Days likes Starfox Command...That means her opinion is moot!

You mean his?

Nah, "her" fits him just fine...

I think everyone can agree that even when I ws pretending to be a girl Bill was doing a better job of it unintentionally.

And crap, forgot I posted this flamebait. I'll come in and fire back sometime later when I can be bothered. Maybe tomorrow.

Galford · « **Reply #32 on:** December 03, 2006, 11:35:04 AM »

I don't what to say about this thread.
In my opinion both are pillars of 2d action rpg design but in different ways.

Just a quick question, how many people here played these games when they first came out
on the SNES? I ask because this tends to shape people's view points on both of these games
immensely.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #33 on:** December 03, 2006, 12:17:44 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k Maybe I'm too jaded and reading game mechanics like a book now but I don't sense urgency unless there's a countdown on the screen because I just know the game isn't keeping track of how long I take.

Like when the castle was collapsing and you needed to make it to the bottom in three minutes?

Quote
Maybe it's because I wasn't a kid anymore when I played OOT but it didn't invoke many emotions in me besides thinking "what an awful idea" when I saw the shoddily prerendered backgrounds. Maybe it's the lack of amazement about "OMG 3D!" that makes the game unenjoyable to me or maybe it's because I played Wind Waker first.

I wasn't a kid when I played either LttP or OoT and I didn't think the graphics were particularly good. It was the soundtrack which made the game identifiable in my mind. Easily one of the best game soundtracks to date.

WW was just, meh, by comparison. TP actually reminds me far more of OoT than either MM or WW.

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #34 on:** December 03, 2006, 12:29:50 PM »

I was 16 to 17 years old when I first played OoT and even when I am 24 years old the music brings tears to my eyes because of how beautiful it is.

At the time I was impressed with the graphics, even if they weren't perfect. While the music was one of the things that drove OoT high on my list there was just too many things about the game that drove it to near perfection.

The challenge of the dungeons and its bosses, exploring the country side on Epona, freeing Epone and the biggest one of all for me, seeing for the first time how the beautiful fantasy world of Hyrule was turned into hell by Ganondorf. How the people were affected by it added an emotional punch to it all. My favorite scene is when you visit Lon Lon ranch for the first time after you wake up from your 10 year slumber, then at night you see Malon singing alone in the middle of the ranch, then she mentions that the song reminds her of the brighter days.

MM took that aspect and cranked up to 11. The Anju and Kafei sidequest was sad and very touching, same with the father and the little girl.

Compared to these two, Wind waker was BLAH. I've been replaying the game and I've yet to encounter a moment that tickled my fancy (the closest was when you learned Tetra's true identity).

KDR_11k · « **Reply #35 on:** December 03, 2006, 06:39:08 PM »

Like when the castle was collapsing and you needed to make it to the bottom in three minutes?

Haven't seen that part outside of a speedrun, I didn't play much past the wood temple. Judging by my past performance with final bosses (try a few times, get bored, leave) I wouldn't have seen it even if I played the game to the end.

Kairon · « **Reply #36 on:** December 03, 2006, 08:36:26 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Man, I HATED Seiken Densetsu 3. Such a letdown from Secret of Mana. It got rid of the ring menu, it slowed down combat, and it diluted the general experience completely.

The closest thing I've played to SoM in a long while has been Rocket Slime, and as cool as that was, it was still a minor twinkle in the utter brilliance of SoM.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

The fact that you said SD3 does NOT have a ring menu shows you did NOT play "Seiken Densetsu 3." You probably played Sword of Mana or some other PSX rubbish. You have no right to revisit this thread.

Discussion over x2.

Maybe I shouldn't have dropped the game in frustration so fast... or maybe there was a ring menu and I repressed the memory because of how godawful the rest of the game felt.

Either way, the disappointment I felt playing SD3 is the reason I hate emulators.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #37 on:** December 04, 2006, 03:50:11 AM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k Haven't seen that part outside of a speedrun, I didn't play much past the wood temple. Judging by my past performance with final bosses (try a few times, get bored, leave) I wouldn't have seen it even if I played the game to the end.

So you've been bashing the game all this time and didn't make it more than half of the way through? Huh?

And like I said, you might want to skip TP outright. It reminds me of OoT more than any of the recent Zelda games.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #38 on:** December 04, 2006, 04:53:17 AM »

So you've been bashing the game all this time and didn't make it more than half of the way through? Huh?

Do you expect me to play a game of that length from start to finish even though I don't enjoy it?

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #39 on:** December 04, 2006, 07:00:19 AM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k Do you expect me to play a game of that length from start to finish even though I don't enjoy it?

I expect you to not sink to the depths of the mouth-breathers at IGN and at least finish a game before you pass judgment on it, especially if you're going to rag on it.

vudu · « **Reply #40 on:** December 04, 2006, 07:50:27 AM »

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I expect you to not sink to the depths of the mouth-breathers at IGN and at least finish a game before you pass judgment on it, especially if you're going to rag on it.

*cough*

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Played 10 minutes, thought it was the "Blair Witch Project" of gaming, as in I had no idea why all the fuss was made about it.

Smoke39 · « **Reply #41 on:** December 04, 2006, 08:18:18 AM »

I don't think you need to play all the way through a game to be able to decide that you don't like it. :/

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #42 on:** December 04, 2006, 08:31:54 AM »

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Originally posted by: vudu Played 10 minutes, thought it was the "Blair Witch Project" of gaming, as in I had no idea why all the fuss was made about it.

Your point? I didn't understand where the game earned all of its hype as it didn't appeal to me. That's not "ragging" on it, just saying it wasn't my thing.

I didn't go on to say, "The graphics sucked, the story blew and the king's camel toe was the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in a game."

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #43 on:** December 04, 2006, 08:46:18 AM »

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
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Originally posted by: vudu Played 10 minutes, thought it was the "Blair Witch Project" of gaming, as in I had no idea why all the fuss was made about it.

Your point? I didn't understand where the game earned all of its hype as it didn't appeal to me. That's not "ragging" on it, just saying it wasn't my thing.

I didn't go on to say, "The graphics sucked, the story blew and the king's camel toe was the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in a game."

Vudu's point is that you didn't play the game enough in order to understand its appeal. Had you played for like 1 or 2 hours and finished a couple of the levels, then said "I played through a great deal of the game and it didn't appeal to me" it wouldn't have been a problem since you gave it a proper try. But since you admitted that you only played the game for like 10 minutes, then said "I don't understand why the game is loved", it does knock off some credibility points.

You may not be ragging it as bad as KDR is ragging on OoT, but it certainly isn't pretty either.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #44 on:** December 04, 2006, 08:54:49 AM »

True, but if the gameplay didn't appeal to me after 10 minutes, there's not much chance it'll do so after an hour either.

It's not like I had a hard time with the controls, and unless the gameplay becomes wildly different later on or the story becomes so riveting that I can't stop playing, I think I can safely say it wasn't my cup of tea. I'm not ragging on those who like it, nor am I comparing it to any other games, just saying it wasn't my thing.

OoT is the same exact Zelda equation as LttP, just in 3D, and I think it transitioned so well that it enhances the gameplay experience.

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #45 on:** December 04, 2006, 09:08:34 AM »

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
True, but if the gameplay didn't appeal to me after 10 minutes, there's not much chance it'll do so after an hour either.

It's not like I had a hard time with the controls, and unless the gameplay becomes wildly different later on or the story becomes so riveting that I can't stop playing, I think I can safely say it wasn't my cup of tea. I'm not ragging on those who like it, nor am I comparing it to any other games, just saying it wasn't my thing.

OoT is the same exact Zelda equation as LttP, just in 3D, and I think it transitioned so well that it enhances the gameplay experience.

Sadly, the gameplay does not drastically change halfway through the game, which is one of Katamary's biggest downfalls, and the story is simple. The story is We love Katamari is better, but still nothing that you will cherish forever.

The thing that kept me going back to the game was how satisfying it was starting out small and insignificant then ending being bigger than the gods themselves. The sequel (or expansion I should say), does try to enhance the gameplay a little by adding slightly different missions, like instead of rolling a ball, you roll a sumo wrestler and grab as much food as you can so that he can become fat. Then when he is fat enough, you take him to the ring and knock the other wrestler.

I think you voiced your opinion the wrong way. Had you said "I played the game for like 10 minutes and it didn't appeal to me", then it would be understandable. But since you compared it to the Blair Witch, a movie that was a fluke, then said you didn't understand why people see the appeal to it, it does sound like you are ragging on it a bit.

Maybe this is why Vudu brought it up here, since it does sound like you were ragging on it. I think had you voiced it differently, it wouldn't be as bad.

Also, to be blunt, your opinion doesn't hold a candle in the thread because Svevan was asking if the game was worth it. And lets face it, between someone who has given the game enough time to tell you what it did right and wrong and someone who played it for 10 minutes, then dismiss it, who do you think will pay attention to?

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #46 on:** December 04, 2006, 09:16:34 AM »

Depends on whether Evan and I have similar tastes.

If we do then the fact that it wasn't my kind of game would be relevant. If not, he's free to dismiss it.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #47 on:** December 05, 2006, 12:49:58 AM »

OoT is the same exact Zelda equation as LttP, just in 3D, and I think it transitioned so well that it enhances the gameplay experience.

I really, REALLY disagree on that. 2d Zelda plays a LOT different from 3d Zelda. The different combat system is enough to make both hardly comparable.

And I think after playing a game for hours I can say whether I like it or not and I didn't like OOT. I'm certainly not forcing myself through that game just so you think I can properly assess it. You can decide a game doesn't appeal to you after 10 minutes but I have to play a 40 hour game from start to finish to make that same conclusion?

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #48 on:** December 05, 2006, 03:51:12 PM »

40 hours? OoT can be beaten in 15 or less, easily.

Second, if you don't like 3D Zelda games, then you don't like 3D Zelda games. Point taken, but don't overstep your boundaries and start attacking aspects of the game which you didn't experience in totality and therefore cannot properly judge.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #49 on:** December 06, 2006, 01:26:49 AM »

The only thing in my criticism that would require playing through the full game is the music and I got the soundtrack disc (90% just ambient noise, a few forgettable songs, not even the original Eternal Legend, just a crappy remix, only Hymn of Sorms stands out). I found Wind Waker much more playable. The sailing was boring but at least you didn't have to repeatedly hit A to keep moving at speed. The camera was controllable which solved 90% of the camera problems immediately. The dungeons just felt much better.

OOT can be beaten in 2:33:25, 40 hours was just a guess. The game doesn't keep track of the time played, after all (at least not in the load menu).

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #50 on:** December 06, 2006, 06:21:15 AM »

Like I said, I hope you like Wii Sports and Red Steel because TP is basically OoT2.

Athrun Zala · « **Reply #51 on:** December 06, 2006, 07:46:40 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
MM and SD3 for the win.

close thread.

QFT

KDR_11k · « **Reply #52 on:** December 06, 2006, 07:56:10 AM »

TP doesn't even have camera control?

Athrun Zala · « **Reply #53 on:** December 06, 2006, 10:25:21 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
TP doesn't even have camera control?

apparently, Wii version doesn't but GC version does....

Smoke39 · « **Reply #54 on:** December 06, 2006, 10:41:03 AM »

'Cube TP ftw.

Kairon · « **Reply #55 on:** December 06, 2006, 10:51:26 AM »

Real Zelda fans buy both!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Smoke39 · « **Reply #56 on:** December 06, 2006, 11:01:54 AM »

Real Zelda fans prefer LttP, which already disqualifies me anyway. O:

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #57 on:** December 06, 2006, 11:43:41 AM »

Real Zelda fans prefer Link's Awakening...

And no, TP Wii doesn't have free camera control...Honestly though, I didn't miss it as much as I thought I would...

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #58 on:** December 06, 2006, 12:20:42 PM »

Real Zelda fans prefer the Zelda CD-I games...

Smoke39 · « **Reply #59 on:** December 06, 2006, 12:24:07 PM »

Real Zelda fans get pointy-ear plastic surgery.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #60 on:** December 06, 2006, 12:34:02 PM »

Real Zelda fans would stick random objects they find around their house down their pants just like Link does...

Smoke39 · « **Reply #61 on:** December 06, 2006, 03:52:44 PM »

Link wears pants?

Kairon · « **Reply #62 on:** December 06, 2006, 03:59:40 PM »

Real Zelda Fans are left-handed.

Wait... /sad

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Smoke39 · « **Reply #63 on:** December 06, 2006, 04:35:57 PM »

Does it count if you masturbate with your left hand?

KDR_11k · « **Reply #64 on:** December 06, 2006, 11:39:52 PM »

No camera control sounds like another control desaster like OOT or PSO...

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #65 on:** December 07, 2006, 06:04:00 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k TP doesn't even have camera control?

I don't remember needing much camera control.

I aimed Link in the direction I wanted to look and hit Z, or I held down Z and the camera stayed locked on whatever I had targeted.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #66 on:** December 07, 2006, 06:18:28 AM »

Urk. I prefer being able to look into any direction while moving into any other and if necessary adjusting the camera while moving (I also feel crippled when I can't look around to see what the room I'm in is like). Automatic camera angles are worthless in almost all games.

So the choice is between crippled aiming and crippled camera...

vudu · « **Reply #67 on:** December 07, 2006, 06:24:12 AM »

The camera's not that bad. However, it is slightly annoying when you're trying to get the camera to swing around you and instead you Z-target an enemy.

The only times I've really missed the camera was navigating Castle Town.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #68 on:** December 07, 2006, 07:38:46 AM »

I believe that Castle Town is supposed to locked no matter what...(So it'll be like that in the GC version too...)

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