Author Topic: Must-read IGN editorial on Nintendo and upcoming E3 show  (Read 21659 times)

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Offline Gamebasher

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Must-read IGN editorial on Nintendo and upcoming E3 show
« on: February 10, 2005, 08:42:44 PM »
Yes, I know it´s IGN, whom I recently criticized for being hypocritical with regard to Nintendo. Well, maybe they are, maybe they aren´t. One thing they certainly are, is good at placing Nintendo right where it is right now. Namely in a situation where it needs to make a decision fast, about what it is going to do with the Revolution console at E3!!

The IGN editorial makes that plain and simple: they must not only SHOW it, they must also let people PLAY it! And not only that, they must make a resounding impact with it!!

A lot of people already have their eyes fixed on the PlayStation 3 and XBox 2 consoles, so Nintendo CANNOT afford to not show THEIR next-generation offering to people at the show. That much is clear. It is one thing that Miyamoto and Nintendo itself seem to be afraid of revealing new Nintendo software for fear of copycats within the gameindustry (a fear so far unwarranted), but quite another with a next-generation console competing with two other such next-generation consoles - at a big game industry event that is the starting signal for a new console war!! It´s going to have to make a noticeable impact and build hype from that moment onwards, or the hype will go to the other two!

I am particularly in agreement with IGN, that regarding the third parties Nintendo can´t afford to miss out at all. They can´t sustain a new platform by their own efforts alone, and neither can they afford to give third parties a bad hand in not properly securing a smooth method of gamescreation on their platform. IGN says it would be wisest to simply tailor games to their specific platform, right from the start! I am totally in agreement here. It would instantly show the third parties what the new console can do and how they can profit from it.

you can read the IGN editorial

here

Ah yes, a whole new way to play games. But also may wind up being a whole new way to play very few games, if Ninty don´t secure both proper amounts of healthy hype for it and one heck of an easy transfer of- and creation of new third-party games on that new platform!

All eyes fixed on Reggie now!

 
Nintendo is the originator of videogame innovation! The Great Mover of the Industry. Past, present and future. Rightfully, the King of Videogaming!

Offline PaLaDiN

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"A lot of people already have their eyes fixed on the PlayStation 3 and XBox 2 consoles, so Nintendo CANNOT afford to not show THEIR next-generation offering to people at the show. That much is clear."

Is that right? Lately I'm beginning to doubt that very much.

I can't shake the feeling that somewhere at Nintendo HQ everybody's laughing at the idiots caught up in the "console wars" and predicting Nintendo's doom, while they swim in cash. If you think about it, why is it important for Nintendo to be better than PS3 or Xbox2? All I'm buying the Revolution for anyway is Nintendo games...
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Offline Deguello

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I forgot when Nintendo said they would not show the Revolution at E3.  When did they say that?
It's time you saw the future while you still have human eyes.

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Offline PaLaDiN

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"I forgot when Nintendo said they would not show the Revolution at E3. When did they say that?"

They didn't... did they?
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Offline Caillan

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What PCG didn't mention in their article about Iwata's keynote at the GDC is that apparently he will speak about how 'emotional factors' have been used in Revolution's development. It would be a poor time to unveil the console, but judging by this I think we can expect to get more information about it.

Offline Shift Key

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Nintendo are still undecided.
Again, IGN jumps aboard the drama bandwagon. Thanks for jumping to conclusions.

The best E3 impact would be to have some solid announcements about developers backing the Revolution, news that dev kits are easily available, and that developers are interested in the platform. Remember the DS unveiling video? Think like that, only replace DS with Rev and stylus with something else
But that's just me.

From the link above:
Quote

As a final word on Revolution, Ken took a minor swipe at competitors Sony and Microsoft, both of whom have made stat or tech-heavy announcements in the past, by saying, "fun isn't something that can be expressed in figures, and we are ever mindful of how we can illustrate the difference offered by our particular brand of fun".

:rock:

Offline Pale

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Did you just use must read and IGN in the same sentence?

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Offline Bill Aurion

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The article doesn't illustrate anything new, and Matt acts like he hasn't been reading Iwata's comments over the past year..."Oh, and it must appeal to new gamers as well as the hardcore crowd..."  No crap, Matt...Iwata has been saying that Ninty is shooting for that for quite a while now...
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Offline Ian Sane

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Well you can sum up IGN's editorial pretty easily: knock everyone's socks off, Nintendo.  I agree completely with what they're saying.  The Revolution has to deliver big or no one is going to care.  Or perhaps a better choice of words would be "continue not caring."

The only problem is that not everything IGN says Nintendo can do can be "fixed" in time for the show.  Nintendo can still decide what to show but if key games aren't in a showable state now or third party games aren't in development yet or the Revolution's new features are gimmicky and useless Nintendo can't change that in time for E3.  In the case of Revolution's design itself they probably can't change anything significant in time for the planned launch.  And that's kind of scary.  Nintendo's path for the next generation is pretty much set already.  We can speculate and talk about what Nintendo should do all we want but the fact is Nintendo has already decided what they're going to do.  Whether the Revolution succeeds or fails has largely been decided by Nintendo's actions before the system has even been revealed.  If they screwed up already it's too late.  Scary, huh?

One reason above all else why I think the Revolution has to be shown in a significant manner at E3 is that the PS3 is being shown.  If the Revolution is supposed to not launch last, as Nintendo has repeatedly stated, then it has to be shown before or around the same time as the PS3.  If it no shows it's going to be hard for us to believe it will actually launch on time.  Now the DS launched before the PSP despite being revealed later but the whole thing was rather blatantly rushed.  The Revolution can't launch with anything resembling the DS launch.  It will get absolutely creamed if it does.  So we need to see a lot of the Revolution at E3 just to give us some confidence in Nintendo's future.

Offline Avinash_Tyagi

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I disagree, I'd rather Nintendo release as little as possible.

Like you said Ian they can't really change anything in time for E3, and its likely they have little to show in playable form, I'd rather they give remain rather quiet on the Revolution itself, rather than give a little bit of info and have people jump to stupid conclusions like they did at first with the DS.

All they need to do is state a few things and I'll be happy:

List of Nintendo developed launch games(just names no details needed)
Overview of online plan(like how much will it cost and whether we will need to buy any accesories)
Date of release and pricing
release colors


Offline BiLdItUp1

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Avinash, you'll probably be happy, but how many people would also be satisfied with that paltry list. That might (just might) work for Sony and MS because of their respective hype machines - something that Nintendo lacks. No one else is going to be satisfied with a mere list of games - that list would be subject to delays and cancellations. They have to bring out the big guns. The secrecy strategy won't work with the general gaming public anymore, and if Nintendo does continue it, it will only prove their pigheadedness and unwilllingness to acknowledge the fact that no one has stolen their ideas since the N64 days. So basically, for once, I agree with those IGN fatcats. (Still waiting for that huge SK M3G4t0n!!!)
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Offline Avinash_Tyagi

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Really, so the whole sony plan to connect the PSP and PS3 wasn't taken from Nintendo?

Sorry but its better that nintendo keeps quiet, After the DS's announcement people for months were wondering whether Nintendo had jumped off the deep end, today they've been proven wrong, but it still holds that any Nintendo announcement will be limited and therefore misinterpreted, and anything really good will get copied, better to address the few sticky issues and leave the major ideas under wraps until they are ready to revel it all.

Heck that could be a great marketing idea; have commercials which say things like "The revolution is coming" and then show nothing else, it'll leave people wondering.  

Offline Ian Sane

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"Sorry but its better that nintendo keeps quiet, After the DS's announcement people for months were wondering whether Nintendo had jumped off the deep end, today they've been proven wrong"

I wouldn't say they've been proven wrong.  We wouldn't be having discussions about whether or not the DS can battle the PSP or whether or not the DS is just a gimmick machine if all the doubters were proven wrong.  I found the DS announcement was incredibly secretive.  First they announced the thing but didn't really give us much info.  Then at E3 they had no real games, just demos.  The DS was a big ? until the launch lineup was revealed.  And the launch lineup left many underwhelmed and it's become clear that the reason little was shown about the DS beforehand was because there was little to show.  In a way the DS benefited from the secrecy because it gave people time to speculate what the machine could do and that created hype.

The Revolution however can't have the same strategy.  People aren't going to fall for the same thing twice.  If Nintendo is all secretive people are going to assume that like the DS, they don't have that much worth showing us.  If I see tech demos at E3 I'm going to assume that Nintendo has virtually nothing cooking up, much like the DS launch had virtually nothing.

I need to see a real showing of the Revolution because after the DS I just don't trust Nintendo to deliver the goods.  I need to know NOW if the Revolution is the real deal.  And if it's not the real deal then what the hell has Nintendo been doing this whole time?  It's not like MS or Sony have enough time to steal Nintendo's ideas anyway.

Offline vudu

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Whether the Revolution succeeds or fails has largely been decided by Nintendo's actions before the system has even been revealed. If they screwed up already it's too late. Scary, huh?
I disagree.  While the system itself is important, I think the marketing of the system will have a greater influence on potential buyers.  I think everyone on this board will agree that the GameCube is a great console.  Some aren't happy with its current game lineup, controller setup, etc, but most agree that it's a very capable console with some amazing games.  That said, most of us also agree that Nintendo's marketing sucks and it is largely to blame for the console not doing as well as we all would like it to.

The fate of the Revolution doesn't lie in the hardware or even the games (now that's scary).  It lies in how the console is marketed.  (BTW, I graduated with a BA in Marketing, and I would love to help out Nintendo's current situation.  If only I could work at NOA without moving to WA.)

EDIT:  I didn't read the editorial, as I am boycotting IGN.  Was anything mentioned that hasn't been said a thousand times before?  
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline PaLaDiN

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Heh. You guys' scaremongering tactics don't affect me.

Why is there this mindset that Nintendo has to do better than the others to be successful?

You want something scary? Next gen an overwhelming majority of the games will suck because all the devs will jump on the online bandwagon. And it won't be Nintendo's fault, it'll be yours.
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Offline Avinash_Tyagi

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I wouldn't say they've been proven wrong. We wouldn't be having discussions about whether or not the DS can battle the PSP or whether or not the DS is just a gimmick machine if all the doubters were proven wrong.


You can have proof that someone is wrong and people can still doubt(just look at the evolution debate).

Whether it can defeat the PSP in terms of sales is irrelavent to whether it was a good idea or whether it was a gimmick, the gimmick argument in recent months has been only used by those looking to troll, that will be decided by other factors like marketing.

While the lack of games has been a problem and a reasonable argument, it has little to do with the console it self and more to do with the developers who are still attempting to understand how to utilize it properly, which I find understandable considering the machine offers capabilities little used in gaming outside the PC.

Quote

. If Nintendo is all secretive people are going to assume that like the DS, they don't have that much worth showing us. If I see tech demos at E3 I'm going to assume that Nintendo has virtually nothing cooking up, much like the DS launch had virtually nothing.


The lack of a launch lineup has done litle to hamper the DS so far, in fact its popularity has remained in spite of it.  The revolution being seen in the same light as the DS by most of the public is actually a good thing.

Also, the PSP had little more than tech demos at E3 and yet you've been worrying about it for a while, so obviously having only tech demos at E3 isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Quote

I need to see a real showing of the Revolution because after the DS I just don't trust Nintendo to deliver the goods. I need to know NOW if the Revolution is the real deal. And if it's not the real deal then what the hell has Nintendo been doing this whole time? It's not like MS or Sony have enough time to steal Nintendo's ideas anyway.


And like I said its unlikely that Nintendo will be able to show anything more than bits and pieces, too little to satisfy most gamers , its unlikely that most developers have had dev kits for more than a few months, its even possible that the hardware is not yet finalized.  If Nintendo says too much when its not ready it will cause public perception to go bad.  Much better to keep people wondering and then give the information when ready rather than rush to meet a deadline and show something only half ready.  

Offline Ian Sane

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"I disagree. While the system itself is important, I think the marketing of the system will have a greater influence on potential buyers."

Absolutely.  But the marketing doesn't do anything if the system itself is hampered by a significant weakness.  If the Revolution uses weird controllers no one likes then all the great marketing in the world can't save it.  And marketing won't help if Nintendo has a lone port as their launch lineup like the DS had.  Marketing is REALLY important but the product has to be good too.  Nintendo has talked a lot about going in a new direction.  Well if that direction is not what people want then the console is already doomed.  I think what the Revolution actually is will play a huge part in its success.  Though marketing is essential.

"The lack of a launch lineup has done litle to hamper the DS so far, in fact its popularity has remained in spite of it. The revolution being seen in the same light as the DS by most of the public is actually a good thing."

The DS has two factors that benefit it that the Revolution will not have.  First of all the DS is the first new portable out of the gate so it has no competition.  The Revolution will launch after the Xbox Next so that advantage doesn't exist.  Second the DS is considered by most to be the next Gameboy.  The Revolution doesn't have that either.  Most are assuming it will be the next Gamecube which is BAD.  The DS can coast because it follows a strong system.  The Revolution is sure to struggle because it follows an unpopular system.

Offline vudu

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But the marketing doesn't do anything if the system itself is hampered by a significant weakness.
With the right marketing, you can make even the most inferior product seem like it was crafted by the almighty hands of God Himself.  ::cough PlayStaion 2 cough::
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Avinash_Tyagi

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Nintendo has talked a lot about going in a new direction. Well if that direction is not what people want then the console is already doomed


Quote

The Revolution is sure to struggle because it follows an unpopular system.


I think you're expecting Nintendo to try and reclaim the first spot in the console wars; well the truth is Nintendo could bring the most phenomenal system ever created and it still wouldn't reclaim the lead in the console wars.  

In order to be successful the Revolution only has to be profitable, which is almost a certainty.

In order to achieve its set goal it has to present new ways of gaming, along the lines of how the DS presents new ways of gaming.

Don't expect the revolution to beat the PS3 or Xbox 2, just expect it to bring new experiences to the table.

As for people not wanting the direction, well nintendo has in the past presented a lot of directions which have been viewed skeptically by the public, but its been rarely wrong, so I'm more than willing to give it the benefit of the doubt

Offline Gamebasher

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Great to see all the opinions of this crucial topic. So, on to replying.

IanSane, wrote:

"The DS has two factors that benefit it that the Revolution will not have. First of all the DS is the first new portable out of the gate so it has no competition. The Revolution will launch after the Xbox Next so that advantage doesn't exist. Second the DS is considered by most to be the next Gameboy. The Revolution doesn't have that either. Most are assuming it will be the next Gamecube which is BAD. The DS can coast because it follows a strong system. The Revolution is sure to struggle because it follows an unpopular system. "

And Avinash_Tyagi, wrote:

"I think you're expecting Nintendo to try and reclaim the first spot in the console wars; well the truth is Nintendo could bring the most phenomenal system ever created and it still wouldn't reclaim the lead in the console wars.

In order to be successful the Revolution only has to be profitable, which is almost a certainty.

In order to achieve its set goal it has to present new ways of gaming, along the lines of how the DS presents new ways of gaming.

Don't expect the revolution to beat the PS3 or Xbox 2, just expect it to bring new experiences to the table.

As for people not wanting the direction, well nintendo has in the past presented a lot of directions which have been viewed skeptically by the public, but its been rarely wrong, so I'm more than willing to give it the benefit of the doubt."

And my comment:

I think that with any new system, that is changing previous ways of doing things, there is a period of adaptation with the user´s. That is the way is has always been. But if such a new system is announced, it, of all systems it competes with, must be shown in time soon enough, or at the very same such time, for people to garner attention and expectation for it! Nintendo must be carefull. in my opinion, for I really don´t think they will continue to get away with doing things their own way!!! Fans who are loyal demand loyalty in return. I here do vividly remember their past arrogance with I am a tremendous clownboat., and Mario Sunshine, which two games by now have both been looked on as games that did not live up to expectations from gamers overall. Perhaps not so as regards die-hard Nintendo fans, but I read so much everywhere, saw so many opinions that were like this and finally saw Nintendo change the direction of the Zelda -series for reasons of "requests from many many many people" as they put it at last years E3 unveiling. So, they must listen to the people who play games, and even so doing at the time of writing, still more of that is required from them.

It´s not like Christmas where the kids know they´re going to get approximately what they put on their wishlist, and look forward to that. It´s a new videogamesystem, which follows the least popular of the three being on the market now, and therefore Nintendo can´t expect that people will put up with waiting even longer for seeing and feeling it´s promised wonders of gameplay! It is now or never!

Because, there´s a ferocious amount of talent in the third party gamecompanies, and who all mostly struggle to survive. So they will go to develope games on the platforms, which they know people have their eyes fixed on THE MOST, and NOT where people will look occasionally!

When I said "least popular" I did so because GameCube hasn´t sold over 20 million units wordwide. In stark contrast to the GameBoy Advance and GBA SP. The developers look to where there is the least risk of failure, and the highest chance of profit. It´s not really about loyalty, but about being in business or not! Many gamecompanies love Nintendo, but it is not enough if they can´t sell their games on the Nintendo systems!

So now it should make sense why it´s not about Revolution being profitable to Nintendo alone, but to many others as well. They (Nintendo) aren´t exactly placing a lid on their profit-aspirations. They don´t mind a huge sum of profit, as this is only good for the company in the future. If they want to once again become #1, which they seem to aspire for, their new machine must match the HYPE that the other two are  a l r e a d y  generating! Hype pre-sells hardware and -software for it. The current most popular hype is based on KNOWN types of hardware and controllers from Sony and Microsoft, that they are promising to be better with significantly ENHANCED level of entertainment as a result. That is something people can understand. THAT has massmarket appeal!! But will "Revolution" give people what they deem enhanced entertainment? The hush-hush attitude of Nintendo does NOT tell people out there, does it? But Nintendo wan´t to reach the mass market, don´t they? Didn´t Reggie just say in the IGN Nintendo Minute feature that Nintendo isn´t a kid-centric company, but that they want to make games for everyone? Yes, he did! And I can even now imagine, guys, the absolutely enourmous impact that a clever add from Nintendo about the new machine right after E3 would have which would be so tempting, so startling, so irresistible, so cool that people would drool on sight! And CRAVE it. THAT is what they need to do! NOW!! If it really is so revolutionary, and Nintendo knows what constitutes great gameplay, such an unveiling  would do wonders. Then, just going from there right until and through the launch in 2006 would secure their place in the #2 or #1 spot in the future. The new Zelda, and Mario 128, will sells bucketloads of GCN´s alone, so Nintendo won´t have trouble with Nintendo gamers that anticipate the next machine!

So, no closely guarded secret´s anymore! Show us something! Otherwise, it´s foreign territory, unknown, and by a lot of people deemed unsafe investment until more is known about it.

Nintendo then says that, in the DS, we can see something of the mother console itself to be unveiled. Fair enough, but it´s too little, at too early a time to have people draw that parallel. As IanSane correctly points out, the Revolution does NOT have the advantages of the DS, for (my addition): it stands ALONE!

Paradigm Shift or not. If it truly is a first for the industry, standing alone, then it better deliver!! So, Matt Cassamassina is right: it must be shown now!! Tried out now! Hate him as much as some do.

Powerfull demonstrations generates attention! Powerfull ads turn heads!  

People go with what is popular! That is the mainstream gamer. Massmarket appeal. They go first for what is massively advertised, for to them it must then be "IN", and safe to go after. It´s very much about social aspects as well. You can be the most loyal Fanboy in the world, but it won´t avail you much if all your friends play something else, and can´t enjoy with you what you play!

They won´t just buy "Revolution" when it comes out "sometime" that suits Nintendo. By that time, if they haven´t unveiled it to people, their money will be on the other two consoles. And the mass-market attention will be drawn to those, not to Nintendo´s machine. Nomatter how good it may play. It will simply drown in the hype and advertisement from the other two console-makers. At best, it will slowly convert even the most die-hard of the PS3 or XBOX2 owners. But still too late, to make a definitive impact in the console war, with Nintendo winding up in the undesirable #3 position again!

So, Nintendo should make another "Reggie-lution", and absolutely blow everyone away - again! Drop all their fears and with them also drop a bombshell of goodies that will have people scream and weep like they did when they saw the Realistic Link galopping across Hyrule Field x 100 in the upcoming Zelda blockbuster. I don´t expect people will do the first. But if it isn´t the first, then it´s at least positively surprising them, and from then on garnering the desired attention and hype. At the following E3 in 2006, with games truly out that make full use of the new gameplay mechanic, it should then be the first mentioned response which would be seen.

I can´t be far off, you know. People absolutely LOVE to be surprised. Miyamoto loves to do that to people, he once said. Surprising them. And that is what Nintendo must do at E3 this year. Or fall behind.

Nintendo must cease the moment! You know what that means! I´t means to take full advantage of a great opportunity to show what you´ve got and know that what you´ve got d-e-l-i-v-e-r-s! Iwata is pretty confident it does. So he must show it, and let people play it! No half shows, prototype diagrams. Only full exposure. They´ve had enough time to develope it, so it´s time to show it. No protecting Nintendo secrets. If they´re not fit for battle NOW, they´re in trouble. There no way in life that anybody from Sony or Microsoft can copy your hardware or software anyway, in that short time left until the launch in 2006.






   
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Offline Artimus

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This forum baffles me. IGN posts a smart article outlining some good points (remember, they're not jsut writing for hardcore fans who know everything Iwata says) and you guys attack them for it.

Yes they can be bad, but not everything they post is the devil. Urgh, get out of your dreams worlds!

Offline Dasmos

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Get out of YOUR little dream world!

If people want to bad-mouth other people for saying little or nothing then they should bad-mouth people for saying little to nothing......
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Offline Artimus

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...

My comment was pretty true. I've never seen a single positive IGN thread on this forum and the backlash is hardest when they're raising a very true, very apt criticism of Nintendo.

Offline KDR_11k

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Actually the backlash is the largest when IGN is suggesting unfeasible or counterproductive ideas. Like "set up an online service". Why not "conquer the world" or "win in the lottery" while we're at it? Words are cheap and ignorance is bliss when you're not seeing the whole picture associated with an issue. Perhaps IGN believes that setting up an online service is as easy as making a news website.

Offline Artimus

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I guarentee IGN is more familiar with the video game world than you, KDR. PS2 has an online program that didn't cost Sony billions. Nintendo doesn't need XBOX live, but they need SOMETHING so people have the option like with the PS2.

I cannot believe how in denial you Nintendo fanboys are. I've never owned anything but Nintendo but at least I'm honest about their mistakes!