I still can't figure out if it's 3D or 2D! Different people say different things!
Yeah I've heard both, I thought it looked 3D but we'll see. Regardless it had a great teaser. Personally I am a fan of the more fleshed out world of Metroid.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: AV on June 02, 2009, 01:37:16 PM
3d, 2d whatever it looks amazing and totally unique. Huge Win for Nintendo on that. Never expected this.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on June 02, 2009, 01:37:21 PM
It was indescribable. Some looked a bit like the SSBM intro
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 02, 2009, 01:37:41 PM
Noo. It's 3d. I think your watched the trailer wrong
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on June 02, 2009, 01:38:27 PM
That commander guy called her Lady, notice that? That must be the guy who was refered to her as lady in Fusion.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ShyGuy on June 02, 2009, 01:41:46 PM
Team Ninja? Is this rogue Team Ninja with Itagaki or is it Tecmo "No Fatal Frame For you" Team Ninja?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 02, 2009, 01:43:41 PM
I hear it's 2D and 3D.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 02, 2009, 01:49:00 PM
Team Ninja? Is this rogue Team Ninja with Itagaki or is it Tecmo "No Fatal Frame For you" Team Ninja?
If its the later, I'm sure Nintendo is not happy with them right now. Team Ninja did Fatal Frame IV?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 02, 2009, 01:49:29 PM
It's multi-perspective.
There's corridor running like Crash Bandicoot, enemies can surround your for a 2D sidescroller situation (makes sense if you flip the camera away from the corridor perspective), and there's 3D arena boss combat.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 02, 2009, 01:49:50 PM
Tecmo + Grasshopper did Fatal Frame 4.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on June 02, 2009, 01:49:55 PM
Looks exactly like Ninja Gaiden with Samus. Count me among the skeptical, but hopeful.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on June 02, 2009, 01:52:50 PM
Holy crap at the trailer!
Still, some animation and models look kind of bad, but I hope is just the youtube quality.
I am interested, and I love any game that provides more back story to the metroid universe, but I don't see how multiple perspectives are compatible with the metroid gameplay, I'll wait and see.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: bustin98 on June 02, 2009, 01:53:47 PM
Screw the haters, I was blown away and I am so looking forward to the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 02, 2009, 01:58:22 PM
That was the best trailer I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 02, 2009, 02:00:23 PM
I liked how at the beginning you had no idea what game it was. Made for some great suspense.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on June 02, 2009, 02:00:47 PM
Now the first shot with Samus surrounded by those flying insects looks very 2D, but if you look carefully you can see her shooting them not just from left to right but in the back ground as well. My only complaint is her speed boost running animation, ash she smashes through the ice. Make her run nice like in smash.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 02, 2009, 02:01:14 PM
That was a great trailer.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 02, 2009, 02:01:25 PM
Follow-up: Everyone freaks out when they change the way you play Metroid, because it was originally a 2D side-scroller, well guess what - so was just about every game that came out before 1993. 2D can be done very well, as Demon Blade shows, and other games like Lost Winds, etc, but it's time to accept the fact that 3D is here to stay, and it appeals to a much larger audience than 2D does.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 02, 2009, 02:02:35 PM
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 02, 2009, 02:10:53 PM
The best part about this announcement is that it makes that wanna be metroid Epic game seem like a very poor substitute for the real thing.
Looks like MS wasn't the only one stepping up to the table a year late.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on June 02, 2009, 02:20:34 PM
I really don't know what to think of this one. It looks like Ninja Gaiden only covered in Metroid paint. It's flashy and exciting (and seeing more of the Metroid universe as a whole is always welcome), but I'm very skeptical of this one. It just doesn't look like a Metroid game at all.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 02, 2009, 02:29:24 PM
I really don't know what to think of this one. It looks like Ninja Gaiden only covered in Metroid paint. It's flashy and exciting (and seeing more of the Metroid universe as a whole is always welcome), but I'm very skeptical of this one. It just doesn't look like a Metroid game at all.
We see eye-to-eye on this one.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 02, 2009, 02:35:22 PM
I'm sure the same complaints were made when Metroid Prime was revealed.
It just looks like a generic FPS with Metroid paint. Metroid is 2D... blah blah blah. I'm not even really a metroid fan, since I've never really played any of the 2D version that much, but that trailer sold me on this game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on June 02, 2009, 02:37:04 PM
And what does a metroid game look like?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 02, 2009, 02:38:02 PM
I'm sure the same complaints were made when Metroid Prime was revealed.
It just looks like a generic FPS with Metroid paint. Metroid is 2D... blah blah blah. I'm not even really a metroid fan, since I've never really played any of the 2D version that much, but that trailer sold me on this game.
I do like it. People complain about Nintendo never taking any chances, and here is a pretty big (and different) step for the franchise and people hate it even without seeing very much of it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on June 02, 2009, 02:39:04 PM
I'm sure the same complaints were made when Metroid Prime was revealed.
It just looks like a generic FPS with Metroid paint. Metroid is 2D... blah blah blah. I'm not even really a metroid fan, since I've never really played any of the 2D version that much, but that trailer sold me on this game.
Had a feeling that argument would pop up. :rolleyes: Except the Metroid Prime games maintained the the general atmosphere and whatnot of the 2D games, and in the end they were still true to the Metroid license. This game is clearly a different beast altogether from the games that came before it. Whether that's good or not we'll have to see. I havgn't dismissed it altogether...I'm just troubled by this shift in direction.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 02, 2009, 02:39:48 PM
I'm sure the same complaints were made when Metroid Prime was revealed.
It just looks like a generic FPS with Metroid paint. Metroid is 2D... blah blah blah. I'm not even really a metroid fan, since I've never really played any of the 2D version that much, but that trailer sold me on this game.
Had a feeling that argument would pop up. :rolleyes: Except the Metroid Prime games maintained the the general atmosphere and whatnot of the 2D games, and in the end they were still true to the Metroid license. This game is clearly a different beast altogether from the games that came before it. Whether that's good or not we'll have to see. I havgn't dismissed it altogether...I'm just troubled by this shift in direction.
Nothing can quite top Infamous, I know. ;)
If they weren't so dang complacent!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on June 02, 2009, 02:41:05 PM
I'm sure the same complaints were made when Metroid Prime was revealed.
It just looks like a generic FPS with Metroid paint. Metroid is 2D... blah blah blah. I'm not even really a metroid fan, since I've never really played any of the 2D version that much, but that trailer sold me on this game.
Had a feeling that argument would pop up. :rolleyes: Except the Metroid Prime games maintained the the general atmosphere and whatnot of the 2D games, and in the end they were still true to the Metroid license. This game is clearly a different beast altogether from the games that came before it. Whether that's good or not we'll have to see. I havgn't dismissed it altogether...I'm just troubled by this shift in direction.
Nothing can quite top Infamous, I know. ;)
Have you read my most-recent post on that game? That game's so frickin' cheap right now that it's sitting in the corner having a Time Out right now. My current gaming obsession is one I just picked up yesterday: Fallout 3. *trembles*
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 02, 2009, 02:43:33 PM
I'm sure the same complaints were made when Metroid Prime was revealed.
It just looks like a generic FPS with Metroid paint. Metroid is 2D... blah blah blah. I'm not even really a metroid fan, since I've never really played any of the 2D version that much, but that trailer sold me on this game.
Had a feeling that argument would pop up. :rolleyes: Except the Metroid Prime games maintained the the general atmosphere and whatnot of the 2D games, and in the end they were still true to the Metroid license. This game is clearly a different beast altogether from the games that came before it. Whether that's good or not we'll have to see. I havgn't dismissed it altogether...I'm just troubled by this shift in direction.
Nothing can quite top Infamous, I know. ;)
Have you read my most-recent post on that game? That game's so frickin' cheap right now that it's sitting in the corner having a Time Out right now. My current gaming obsession is one I just picked up yesterday: Fallout 3. *trembles*
Now that I can support you on! ;)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on June 02, 2009, 02:46:58 PM
I'm sure the same complaints were made when Metroid Prime was revealed.
It just looks like a generic FPS with Metroid paint. Metroid is 2D... blah blah blah. I'm not even really a metroid fan, since I've never really played any of the 2D version that much, but that trailer sold me on this game.
Had a feeling that argument would pop up. :rolleyes: Except the Metroid Prime games maintained the the general atmosphere and whatnot of the 2D games, and in the end they were still true to the Metroid license. This game is clearly a different beast altogether from the games that came before it. Whether that's good or not we'll have to see. I havgn't dismissed it altogether...I'm just troubled by this shift in direction.
Nothing can quite top Infamous, I know. ;)
Have you read my most-recent post on that game? That game's so frickin' cheap right now that it's sitting in the corner having a Time Out right now. My current gaming obsession is one I just picked up yesterday: Fallout 3. *trembles*
Now that I can support you on! ;)
Yeah, I found a PS3 Collector's Edition copy in a EB Games near me, so I picked it up just yesterday. Man, that game is ****ing awesome with the atmosphere and the V.A.T.S. system and all. Unfortunately, it's also really really really easy to get lost if you aren't continually looking at your miniscule map.
And getting back on topic, here's hoping this Metroid is a worthy addition to the license. I just worry about Team Ninja of all teams working on this. What, on Easy Difficulty is Samus going to be carrying around a Teddy Bear or something, while on Normal Difficulty the game slaughters you on the first level? ;)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on June 02, 2009, 02:52:39 PM
This is how I always wanted it. 3rd person gameplay, with an awesome(seemingly) story. I am absolutely sold!
For a moment I thought we were going to see a new star fox.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on June 02, 2009, 02:56:54 PM
To me it looks like Team Ninja had a game and Nintendo told them to put Samus in it because God forbid Nintendo release a game without an established franchise in it. It looks like an awesome game but I don't see anything to suggest it's a Metroid game. Just putting a Metroid skin on it doesn't make it Metroid.
Yeah there was similar skepticism for Metroid Prime and that turned out to just nail it. But consider the situation:
- At that point Nintendo had never made ANY Metroid spin-offs. No Hunters. No Pinball. You could trust Nintendo to not just shoehorn Metroid into something else because they had NEVER done that before. Now they have. Metroid and Zelda aren't "sacred" franchises anymore. Nintendo treats them just like they treat Mario.
- With Metroid Prime there was a key need to bring the franchise into 3D. We didn't quite know how it would work and it turned out using a first person perspective was the solution. Where is the need here? We already have Metroid in 3D and it's amazing. They don't have to reinvent the wheel here. Unless Retro is leaving Nintendo.
Is it fair to be skeptical because back in 2001 I trusted Nintendo and in 2009 I don't? I'm wondering if maybe this is Nintendo's attempt to make Metroid fly in Japan. NCL has Japan focused tunnel vision. A game could be the biggest thing in the West and they'll just note that in Japan it isn't selling. So maybe they think Team Ninja will make a more Japanese Metroid and that will sell better there.
If it turns out good I'll get it because it does look good. If it doesn't sound like a real Metroid game though I'll get it used, so as to deny Nintendo the sale.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ShyGuy on June 02, 2009, 03:00:55 PM
Was that Samus talking? Instant boycott if so.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 02, 2009, 03:04:35 PM
And getting back on topic, here's hoping this Metroid is a worthy addition to the license. I just worry about Team Ninja of all teams working on this. What, on Easy Difficulty is Samus going to be carrying around a Teddy Bear or something, while on Normal Difficulty the game slaughters you on the first level? ;)
You gotta remember that Team Ninja is working WITH Nintendo, so whatever problems Team Ninja might have on their own, they have the guiding hand of Nintendo upending tables to make sure the game turns out to Nintendo's liking.
Yeah there was similar skepticism for Metroid Prime and that turned out to just nail it. But consider the situation:
- With Metroid Prime there was a key need to bring the franchise into 3D. We didn't quite know how it would work and it turned out using a first person perspective was the solution. Where is the need here? We already have Metroid in 3D and it's amazing. They don't have to reinvent the wheel here. Unless Retro is leaving Nintendo.
They are putting Metroid in 3rd person 3D like they had originally intended, Retro couldn't pull it off so they let Team Ninja Gaiden do it. Now Retro is working on something else, non-Metroid related.
Quote
Is it fair to be skeptical because back in 2001 I trusted Nintendo and in 2009 I don't? I'm wondering if maybe this is Nintendo attempt to make Metroid fly in Japan. NCL has Japan focused tunnel vision. A game could be the biggest thing in the West and they'll just note that in Japan it isn't selling. So maybe they think Team Ninja will make a more Japanese Metroid and that will sell better there.
I think NCL figures that if it sells in the US then good, because we would have bought it anyway, and now they want to focus on the home crowd, so that they will buy it too. Ninja Gaiden did very well in the East and the West, so a Metroid Gaiden should be able to sell on both sides too.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ShyGuy on June 02, 2009, 03:15:10 PM
I don't think so. I don't really like her stripped down suit as well either. Maybe I'm just suffering nerd rage over the lack of Trace Memory Wii and Fatal Frame 4.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: stevey on June 02, 2009, 03:16:21 PM
The game just looks amazing <a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i42.tinypic.com/xfe2v7.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">[/url] <a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i42.tinypic.com/f582yo.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">[/url]
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on June 02, 2009, 03:18:40 PM
I would boycot this game if Jennifer Hale didn't repraise her role as Samus.
You can't have Samus talk if it isn't Jennifer Hale's voice.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on June 02, 2009, 03:45:11 PM
That purple dinosaur is damn ugly.
The thing with multiple perspectives is that they usually have to be pre-set in specific locations to accomodate the gameplay, that also usually leads to linearity, something that would kill the metroid experience. It also kills inmersion unless it's handled VERY well, so again, I'll wait and see.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on June 02, 2009, 03:45:45 PM
If you pay attention to the trailer, you can clearly see the Mother Brain in her "dino" suit attacking Samus and the Super Metroid(yes the super metroid) at the same time. Or getting attacked by the super metroid, you even hear its voice.
This story finally takes place after Super Metroid, and hopefully after Fusion as well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: rbtr on June 02, 2009, 03:51:49 PM
It looks like a prequel. With a younger, rowdier, shoot-yer-brains out samus. I like the mythos of the Metroid universe, the Prime games had A LOT of story, but you didn't have to pay attention to it. I don't mind some of the story being more upfront, as long as it's done well. Retro put the "upfront" story in Prime 3 fairly poorly, with a blank samus just staring while characters talked to her. Samus can talk, she talked at the end of Fusion, and Zero Mission. She knows words, I can tell from all the reading she did.
Anyways, story is okay, because I adore the universe. Those screens look awesome, remind me of the original metroid. I see ambience in those backgrounds, just enough to let your imagination fill in the blanks.
It could switch perspective based on the situation, not pre-scripted points. I'm exploring this long tunnel (2-D) OMG BAD GUYS COMING FROM THOSE BUSHES! (3-D) I need to shoot that enemy in a specific point (THE BRAINS) (1rst person).
Day 1 purchase.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on June 02, 2009, 03:53:39 PM
Quote
The game just looks amazing
It does? In those shots you posted it looks worse than the Gamecube Metroid Primes.
Metroid Prime has always been probably Nintendo's most hardcore game in that liking requires as open mind. It has always had to fight against people that think it should play like Halo because it LOOKS likes an FPS. It has always had to fight against people that think that it needed different controls, again because it looked like an FPS. It has always had to fight against people that think because Metroid in 2D is third person Metroid in 3D has to be the same as well. Hell Metroid itself isn't that user friendly with all the backtracking. Moving to a first person view was a risky and bold move. And those who were actually open minded enough to give the game a fair chance discovered it was one of the greatest games of all time.
But Nintendo has never REALLY been that supportive of it. They created Metroid Prime Hunters to clearly please the very rubes that weren't willing to accept Metroid Prime for what it was. Metroid Prime 3 was much more of a Metroid game than Hunters but even then it seems more action focused and more straightforward. Nintendo doesn't seem to want Metroid Prime to be Metroid Prime and with the Metroid Prime Trilogy they're perhaps killing off the original games with the original control schemes for good. Plus Nintendo is so much more casual and mainstream focused now. Metroid Prime 3 is somewhat of an oddity in the Wii lineup. Metroid is not open and inviting. It's confusing and intimidating.
Maybe Nintendo has taken Metroid away from Retro Studios and given it to Team Ninja to make a more conventional game with wider appeal. And that means third person view, more action oriented gameplay and a more Japanese style for that audience.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 02, 2009, 03:55:52 PM
The video looks alright. I'm not sure I like the mixture of 2D and 3D. I also think Metroid should stay with the Metroid Prime style of gameplay.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on June 02, 2009, 03:59:16 PM
I envision Metroid as a fiction, not a game type. There is room for multiple game types within that fiction. I'm looking forward to a more action-y Metroid game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on June 02, 2009, 04:11:53 PM
It does? In those shots you posted it looks worse than the Gamecube Metroid Primes.
The game is still a year from completion. They haven't added any of the fancy graphical touches yet. Use your damn imagination.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Rize on June 02, 2009, 04:22:47 PM
I think the reason the graphics are so simple is that probably most of the game is zoomed out side scrolling 2D. However, at times they zoom in for dramatic cut-scenes (very likely) and continue using the same models.
Also, there may be any number of odd sections involving full 3D (for boss fights or those forward scrolling action sequences), but once these areas are played out, they would likely not be accessible any longer (instead it would open a new path or you would trot through the same area in side scrolling 2D after the action sequence or boss is done). This may well be, essentially, a 2D metroid with some 3D boss fights and 3D action sequences to punctuate the 2D exploration.
If so then WIN WIN WIN
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 02, 2009, 04:28:35 PM
It does? In those shots you posted it looks worse than the Gamecube Metroid Primes.
Metroid Prime has always been probably Nintendo's most hardcore game in that liking requires as open mind. It has always had to fight against people that think it should play like Halo because it LOOKS likes an FPS. It has always had to fight against people that think that it needed different controls, again because it looked like an FPS. It has always had to fight against people that think because Metroid in 2D is third person Metroid in 3D has to be the same as well. Hell Metroid itself isn't that user friendly with all the backtracking. Moving to a first person view was a risky and bold move. And those who were actually open minded enough to give the game a fair chance discovered it was one of the greatest games of all time.
But Nintendo has never REALLY been that supportive of it. They created Metroid Prime Hunters to clearly please the very rubes that weren't willing to accept Metroid Prime for what it was. Metroid Prime 3 was much more of a Metroid game than Hunters but even then it seems more action focused and more straightforward. Nintendo doesn't seem to want Metroid Prime to be Metroid Prime and with the Metroid Prime Trilogy they're perhaps killing off the original games with the original control schemes for good. Plus Nintendo is so much more casual and mainstream focused now. Metroid Prime 3 is somewhat of an oddity in the Wii lineup. Metroid is not open and inviting. It's confusing and intimidating.
Maybe Nintendo has taken Metroid away from Retro Studios and given it to Team Ninja to make a more conventional game with wider appeal. And that means third person view, more action oriented gameplay and a more Japanese style for that audience.
This. It's not the majestic 3D puzzler Metroid Prime if the action turns out to be fairly linear. I like the Prime trilogy, cuz I like my puzzly adventures. This is just someone else's hyper action game in a Metroid skin. If Samus was removed from the trailer and replaced with Mega Man X or Captain Falcon, I'd be MUCH more receptive of this proposal.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 02, 2009, 04:37:53 PM
It does? In those shots you posted it looks worse than the Gamecube Metroid Primes.
Metroid Prime has always been probably Nintendo's most hardcore game in that liking requires as open mind. It has always had to fight against people that think it should play like Halo because it LOOKS likes an FPS. It has always had to fight against people that think that it needed different controls, again because it looked like an FPS. It has always had to fight against people that think because Metroid in 2D is third person Metroid in 3D has to be the same as well. Hell Metroid itself isn't that user friendly with all the backtracking. Moving to a first person view was a risky and bold move. And those who were actually open minded enough to give the game a fair chance discovered it was one of the greatest games of all time.
But Nintendo has never REALLY been that supportive of it. They created Metroid Prime Hunters to clearly please the very rubes that weren't willing to accept Metroid Prime for what it was. Metroid Prime 3 was much more of a Metroid game than Hunters but even then it seems more action focused and more straightforward. Nintendo doesn't seem to want Metroid Prime to be Metroid Prime and with the Metroid Prime Trilogy they're perhaps killing off the original games with the original control schemes for good. Plus Nintendo is so much more casual and mainstream focused now. Metroid Prime 3 is somewhat of an oddity in the Wii lineup. Metroid is not open and inviting. It's confusing and intimidating.
Maybe Nintendo has taken Metroid away from Retro Studios and given it to Team Ninja to make a more conventional game with wider appeal. And that means third person view, more action oriented gameplay and a more Japanese style for that audience.
This. It's not the majestic 3D puzzler Metroid Prime if the action turns out to be fairly linear. I like the Prime trilogy, cuz I like my puzzly adventures. This is just someone else's hyper action game in a Metroid skin. If Samus was removed from the trailer and replaced with Mega Man X or Captain Falcon, I'd be MUCH more receptive of this proposal.
OMG a game uses the Metroid license, let's throw a hissy fit and make zero sense with statements that it would be good with some other license. It isn't like they threw Mario into the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Rize on June 02, 2009, 04:43:26 PM
Do you remember the trailers for the Metroid Prime games folks? It was mostly action, morph ball shots and a few environmental pans (speaking of morph ball shots, that's one thing that was absent from the trailer).
The point is, you can't show 2D exploration in a trailer, it would be boring as hell. There is 2D in the trailer and I see no reason why the game can't (or won't) be as I describe it above. Nintendo isn't completely crazy. They wouldn't let people hope this is a real Metroid game and then find out it's some silly Metroid coated action game (there was never any doubt that Hunters was a UT clone and Pinball was obviously Pinball from the word Pinball).
As for Team Ninja's prior habits, Nintendo will strongly modulate them I'm sure. The game will be a strange hybrid of design styles and should be of high quality in the end.
I may be disgruntled, but this will be a real Metroid game and it will be good. Mark my words.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 02, 2009, 04:48:43 PM
You have zero understanding in the matter. You don't know how Captain Falcon brawls nor the excellence of the first Mega Man X games.
The last time they "used" the Metroid license, gamers got dumped with an inconsequential mess called Metroid Fusion.
And that was made by Nintendo themselves, so perhaps it is good to reach out to another developers.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Nile Boogie on June 02, 2009, 04:54:55 PM
I thought it was Zelda in the beginning of the trailer. Even when it went to space I thought "Zelda galaxy"!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on June 02, 2009, 05:19:13 PM
Quote
Nintendo isn't completely crazy. They wouldn't let people hope this is a real Metroid game and then find out it's some silly Metroid coated action game
Maybe Nintendo's idea of what a Metroid game is is different than ours? In there mind they might see a single player focused game with the Metroid licence and figure that that counts. They've counted Star Fox games that completely piss on the franchise as "real" Star Fox games. Plus they can always change what Metroid is. They may not feel that Metroid Prime is how they want Metroid to be or maybe even that Super Metroid is not what they want Metroid to be at this point in time.
Or just as maybe we're misinterpretting things in assuming this is an action game, maybe assuming this is a real Metroid game isn't what Nintendo is expecting. I don't think Nintendo is trying to fool us. I think they're just showing us this Metroid game made by Team Ninja. They may be understanding the game as one thing and we may imagine something else. The game is what it is and if we all thought it was a "real" Metroid game when it isn't Nintendo could never change that. If they're not trying to fool us but we come to the wrong conclusion Nintendo isn't going to change the game to meet our conclusions.
Last year's E3 clearly showed that Nintendo is not at all infallible in guessing how their fanbase will react to something. And remember that Nintendo let us all assume that Zelda on the Gamecube was going to look a certain way and then gave us something completely the opposite of it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: jakeOSX on June 02, 2009, 05:29:50 PM
i am looking forward to this. i think that this is a good change for Samus. the FPA was a fantasic set of games, but this allows two things: Retro to make something else and Samus to keep evolving.
as for exploration, it didn't seem to be addressed either way in the trailer. since the return of an almost 2d playing method i suspect it is still there. and while the action was definatly flashier than MP, it isn't anything beyond stuff i've wanted to do to MP bosses.
and i liked fusion, another of my "must be the only one" list....
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on June 02, 2009, 05:39:14 PM
and i liked fusion, another of my "must be the only one" list....
The awesomity of Metroid Fusion is too great for most people to see.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Rize on June 02, 2009, 05:42:17 PM
Star Fox only had two entries and a pile of characters that weren't very inventive when Nintendo decided that Rare should repaint their Zelda clone with Star Fox paint. And Wind Waker was merely a graphics style not core gameplay. I stand by my analysis. If they wanted to make a Metroid action game (let's say to appeal to the casual audience), there wouldn't be any 2D in it at all.
PS
I also like Fusion (can't say love, but I fully accept it as a real Metroid game).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on June 02, 2009, 05:47:15 PM
I like Metroid Fusion as well. It's a classic Nintendo sequel - keeps the same basic gameplay but changes things up to provide a different experience. I think people just wanted More Super Metroid just like how Majora's Mask wasn't just More Ocarina of Time and people didn't like that.
I am looking forward to this game. I'm just concerned over the use of the Metroid IP. Oddly enough if Retro or R&D1 were making it I would assume the best no matter what was shown. This is a change in gameplay and a change in developer. Those are both risky changes on their own and together I just can't be completely at ease about it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Rize on June 02, 2009, 05:52:27 PM
Well, no reason to keep arguing about it. We know where we stand, now we get to wait and see what happens. Honestly, I'm happy for a change after Prime 3 (although I've finally made peace with the controls).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: stevey on June 02, 2009, 05:58:37 PM
Did any other wii games ever have 720p Screens or did no one tell Team Ninja? In motion and resized, the game really does shine...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on June 02, 2009, 06:12:53 PM
Samus talks in the trailer. I'm surprised no one has bitched about that yet... though I admittedly didn't read this entire topic.
I personally like the changes. It allows for a different experience than the Prime games which I was getting tired of by Corruption. It also allows the return of a lot of the old powers that were either lame/underused (screwattack) or MIA (shinespark) in the Prime games.
The graphics aren't terribly impressive, but it's an early build so that's expected.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Rize on June 02, 2009, 07:55:52 PM
The resolution is faked. Maybe a dev kit can output a hi res screen, but a retail Wii cannot output 720p. The frame buffer isn't large enough. You need a minimum of 2 bytes per pixel (1280x720x2 bytes = 3.2 MB for a 16 bit frame buffer). The Wii only has 3 MB of video memory which must hold the frame buffer + textures.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: jakeOSX on June 02, 2009, 08:03:09 PM
ok so i watched the trailer again.
at the very end samus is in her suit, this doctor looking woman walks in. she (samus) says "I am Samus Arun" the camera closes into the other woman and black.
is it just me, or does it seem like the doctor lady is about to say "so am i."? (which i believe is what caterkiller was refering too...)
or "No, I AM YOUR FATHER!!!" and then she pulls out a light saber and rips her face off to reveal a beautiful black visage shaped like a skull and this dark breathing voice and then next 15 hours of the game is just this epic fight until you (samus) get your hand cut off and escape, narrowly. But when you get back, instead of a hand they give you a gun, a gun that interfaces with your brain so you can open doors with it.
aww yeah.
err. or something.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Smoke39 on June 02, 2009, 08:11:15 PM
Holy fuckin' ****. I wanted a new Metroid for Wii, but I wasn't expecting one at all. Looks cool. I like the more intense action, and the brighter visuals (Prime's always felt a bit... muddy to me).
I see that the issue of exploration's already been discussed, so I'll just say I hope those of you who expect it to be there are right (and by exploration I mean exploration on par with the first Prime, not Corruption. Growl!).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Snipper64 on June 02, 2009, 09:05:07 PM
Well, I was hoping and expecting starfox, but even I am Impressed with this. The quility of the cenamatic shots look lik something from Resedent evil degeneration or advent children, looks very promising. I have to say, I like th 3d shooters fr metriod, but this game clearly has alot of 2d fighting style. While I may not like it too much, you hardcore old school 2d metriod players will and must love this one!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on June 02, 2009, 09:19:55 PM
That one-eyed devil looks like it scored a direct hit, I bet that's how she loses her powerups.
Is it just me or does Erin and all the baddies look like they're shrunk down a bit. And the 'dialogue' is useless. Why show Final Fantasy: Trendypants Chronicles at the beginning if they're not going to give us any story tidbits?
Can't wait to hear more, especially since Reggie said it'd be taking a different direction.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on June 02, 2009, 09:27:33 PM
Well, finally watching the trailer at home with full sound capabilities, one thing's quite clear: while the level design and visuals may be done by Team Ninja, the audio is quite clearly being done in-house. In true Nintendo fashion, the music is good and the voice acting is terrible (though not on that level of epic fail I associate with Star Fox Assault and Super Mario Sunshine).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on June 03, 2009, 12:13:42 AM
That one-eyed devil looks like it scored a direct hit, I bet that's how she loses her powerups.
BURN THE HERETIC!
not recognizing the classic Mother Brain fight in Super Metroid makes you lose important nerd points
You know, I think we have to start to accept the idea that this game seems to try to connect all metroids in one story so it's going to be pretty linear and nothing like the Metroid we love, but I will end up buying it as long as they fix the animations (the speed booster and Ridley looked god damn horrible) and tone down the color a little bit, Samus kicking omega metroids in the middle of a shiny happy forest looked so weird.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Smoke39 on June 03, 2009, 12:25:37 AM
Somehow, even though I didn't like Hunters and was disappointed with the direction Corruption took, I feel like I won't be quite as upset if this turns out to be a linear action game. I mean, in terms of straight action adaptations of Metroid, this looks to capture Samus' acrobatic agility waaay better than Hunters. It just looks cool.
Just the same I still hope it has some good ol' platforming-exploration. Stop being so pessimistic, it's bringin' me down! D:
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on June 03, 2009, 12:39:44 AM
Again, I teared up during this trailer.
My only worry is that Samus is going to end up in the next DoA game (kidding...or AM I?).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on June 03, 2009, 12:51:11 AM
I think we finally get to meet Adam Malkovich. Someone calls Samus "Lady" in the trailer. I'm sure someone's mentioned that already, but I nerded out when I heard that earlier. Fanboy points +1000000.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Smoke39 on June 03, 2009, 12:53:04 AM
Not only does he call her Lady, but he asks "Any objections, Lady?" which iirc is the particular phrase Samus referred to in Fusion.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on June 03, 2009, 12:59:12 AM
Yeah, that's the jizz right thar.
The only Prime game I was nuts about was the first one. The other ones were okay. I like where this one is headed. And Team Ninja fixed ZSS's helmet hair. Team Ninja is awarded 10 awesome points. They were only awarded 10 for ignoring Hunters Samus' hair style.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 03, 2009, 01:16:38 AM
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on June 03, 2009, 01:28:06 AM
That was okay until they practically started making out at the end. Lowest common denominator..... And the irony of watching poser chicks kiss on the same internet which is filled with videos of real girls kissing is astounding. If you're into that kind of thing, at least... nevermind.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NovaQ on June 03, 2009, 01:30:12 AM
That was okay until they practically started making out at the end. Lowest common denominator..... And the irony of watching poser chicks kiss on the same internet which is filled with videos of real girls kissing is astounding. If you're into that kind of thing, at least... nevermind.
Aw, I forgot about the making out and such at the end. Doesn't it do like a "sexy" montage at the end or something? On a boat?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 03, 2009, 02:01:17 AM
it looks like a beat em up that has some fighting game mechanics like those found in naruto games
Huh? Please explain yourself.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dasmos on June 03, 2009, 03:59:59 AM
Don't worry Maxi, it looks nothing like that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 03, 2009, 04:06:48 AM
I know. I was wondering how Perm got that out of the trailer.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ThePerm on June 03, 2009, 04:40:04 AM
well when your watching the trailer you see a fight with
up intil 2:08 nothing but cut scenes fight in dark room with flying creatures: side view in forest fighting something 2.5 d view fighting blob boss 2d view Special move activated samus visor shoot and freeze Fighting monsters running fighting monsters punchout esque fight, dodge and shoot running cut scene fighting monsters cutscene
from what i can tell you run around the levels constantly in fights with monsters, occasionally you'll activate a special move and it will do some cool maneuver in a 3d perspective, these are all context sensitive. Every once in a while you'll run around a treadmill level dodging stuff too. It looks like a game thats based around some enormous on rails QTE. Its hard to say thats what itll be though, it is a trailer.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 03, 2009, 04:52:26 AM
I see.Thanks for the explanation.:)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on June 03, 2009, 12:32:28 PM
With or without Itagaki, Team Ninja is still the best Tecmo team when it comes to pushing hardware. The possible heavy story line can be a interesting thing considering that the Metroid series does have a interesting background. Anyways I think this looks awesome and notice the chameleon enemy: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/CONFUZZLED_MUNKIE/29og4ns.gif)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 03, 2009, 12:55:05 PM
Not once did I see a Morph Ball, so that already spells doom for this project.
I still say the action is better suited to a fast-running, high-jumping, Bounty Hunting Captain Falcon. After a bunch of 2D games, 3 Prime games, and 3 Smash Bros. games, we all know Samus moves as well as King Hippo at best.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 03, 2009, 01:21:55 PM
well when your watching the trailer you see a fight with
up intil 2:08 nothing but cut scenes fight in dark room with flying creatures: side view in forest fighting something 2.5 d view fighting blob boss 2d view Special move activated samus visor shoot and freeze Fighting monsters running fighting monsters punchout esque fight, dodge and shoot running cut scene fighting monsters cutscene
from what i can tell you run around the levels constantly in fights with monsters, occasionally you'll activate a special move and it will do some cool maneuver in a 3d perspective, these are all context sensitive. Every once in a while you'll run around a treadmill level dodging stuff too. It looks like a game thats based around some enormous on rails QTE. Its hard to say thats what itll be though, it is a trailer.
We both identified a bunch of flashy, canned animations. This developer excels at producing animations that pretend to be gameplay merit.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on June 03, 2009, 02:16:36 PM
I think the flashy animations and acrobatics are fantastic. It's almost like watching her do her smash bros attacks. And if you play the guys I play, you know Samus can be an acrobatic speed demon.
I am perfectly happy with this new direction. And since it appears to show allot about samus' past I really hope we get to see a walking talking Chazo. I loved in Zero mission how one was actually shown when Samus was a child. But more importantly I hope they dive into what happened to the Chazo and where they are.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 03, 2009, 02:29:28 PM
You know that grilled KFC promo that occurred a short time ago?
...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 03, 2009, 02:51:01 PM
The game looks fucking awesome, period. Some people are calling it Ninja Gaiden with Samus. Is that a bad thing? Ninja Gaiden is an absolute kick-ass game, and always has been ever since it was in the arcades. It started as a...wait for it...2D side-scroller, and actually is very similar to the original Metroid in some ways. I like how they change the intro from Team Ninja + Nintendo to Team Ninja x Nintendo.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 03, 2009, 03:00:53 PM
Metroid Gaiden is what it is referred to as.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ThePerm on June 03, 2009, 03:03:18 PM
i wouldn't call it Ninja Gaiden with Samas, but it does remind me of RE: Gun Survivor.....not in gameplay at all, but it seems like it will go over all the Metroid games and develop a storyline.
You know if Metroid Prime had some FMVs like this game it probably would have been more popular. The real game had some great graphics, but adding a couple of those would have taken it over the top. I liked the Metroid Prime games but the story was minimalistic, which makes the desire to get further in the game less. I beat Prime, got halfway through Echoes, but haven't quite played much of 3(which arguably has the most plotline out of all of them...i want to beat echoes first though)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Snipper64 on June 03, 2009, 03:11:59 PM
With or without Itagaki, Team Ninja is still the best Tecmo team when it comes to pushing hardware. The possible heavy story line can be a interesting thing considering that the Metroid series does have a interesting background. Anyways I think this looks awesome and notice the chameleon enemy: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/CONFUZZLED_MUNKIE/29og4ns.gif)
Nice... good to see combo attacks. Also, did any of you notice the invisable one behind the one getting it's brains blown out?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on June 03, 2009, 03:15:28 PM
With or without Itagaki, Team Ninja is still the best Tecmo team when it comes to pushing hardware. The possible heavy story line can be a interesting thing considering that the Metroid series does have a interesting background. Anyways I think this looks awesome and notice the chameleon enemy: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/CONFUZZLED_MUNKIE/29og4ns.gif)
Nice... good to see combo attacks. Also, did any of you notice the invisable one behind the one getting it's brains blown out?
Yes we did...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on June 03, 2009, 03:19:28 PM
I'm left cold by it, the emphasis seemed to be story and I don't like story in a Metroid game. Metroid should be about me making the "story" between "Samus arrives" and "Your planet a splode". Pushing forward because I want to see what's there, activating mechanisms because I want to, killing bosses because they're between me and a powerup I want, not doing things because some CO or giant brain in a jar is telling me to.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 03, 2009, 03:24:34 PM
I'm left cold by it, the emphasis seemed to be story and I don't like story in a Metroid game. Metroid should be about me making the "story" between "Samus arrives" and "Your planet a splode". Pushing forward because I want to see what's there, activating mechanisms because I want to, killing bosses because they're between me and a powerup I want, not doing things because some CO or giant brain in a jar is telling me to.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on June 03, 2009, 04:12:17 PM
You're sure extracting a lot of information from a minute-and-a-half long cinematic trailer. You're old enough to know that what they show in a trailer (especially at this stage in the game's development) isn't necessarily indicative of the final product.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 03, 2009, 05:31:21 PM
Here's the interview with the developers of the game, which pretty much confirms Nintendo is playing a huge role in it's development.
In other words, this game should end up great since Sakamoto and his team are the ones in charge and directing the game and Team Ninja is pretty much there to do all the coding and graphics, since Sakamoto and his team have no experience with making 3d games.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on June 03, 2009, 05:41:59 PM
I'm still a bit worried at the lack of morph ball in the trailer, I really doubt they would left it out of the final game, but still...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on June 03, 2009, 05:45:06 PM
I'm still a bit worried at the lack of morph ball in the trailer, I really doubt they would left it out of the final game, but still...
Well if the games full of ONLY the intense action people think it is based on a short lil trailer, I'm POSITIVE they'll include the morph ball in the game, if only so Samus could speed boost up an enemies pooper and detonate a power bomb from inside of it.
Nice compromise right?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on June 03, 2009, 09:36:03 PM
In other words, this game should end up great since Sakamoto and his team are the ones in charge and directing the game and Team Ninja is pretty much there to do all the coding and graphics, since Sakamoto and his team have no experience with making 3d games.
Well Nintendo certainly picked a good developer to do the coding and graphics.Team Ninja is Tecmo's elite development team and knows how to push console capabilities.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on June 03, 2009, 10:16:37 PM
Actually this is returning to metroid roots. The first person perspective made really difficult to show just how agile and badass samus is, but all the 2D metroids have shown her doing some crazy stunts, even the prime games when they get the chance with cutscenes, so I'm not the least bit worried about too much "action" from the trailer. I'm more worried about how the gameplay actually is, how are they integrating 2D, 2.5D and 3D, and specially how is the immersion going to be and if they'll play with claustrophobic enviroments which are kind of a staple in the series.
Metroid is the perfect combination of exploration and action and no (main) metroid game has been subpar in that regard, but this is wild, way too different and exciting, I just want to know more! :P
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 03, 2009, 10:41:55 PM
So...who wants to wager that this will actually be a rated M Metroid?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on June 03, 2009, 10:55:12 PM
That'll be the day...
I expect a T rating, nothing that would push the rating any more than the Prime games did. No suggestive themes, no excessive violence, no blood etc.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Smoke39 on June 04, 2009, 12:29:46 AM
In other words, this game should end up great since Sakamoto and his team are the ones in charge and directing the game and Team Ninja is pretty much there to do all the coding and graphics, since Sakamoto and his team have no experience with making 3d games.
I just saw this posted on The Metroid Database. Some stuffs:
Quote
1UP: What most people love about Metroid is that it offers a huge, open world. It's non-linear, there's so much to explore, and you can move about at your own pace. Is that something you're going to be retaining for this game, or is it going to be more of a linear, level by level progression?
YS: If you think about this one as being maybe similar to Metroid Fusion, then I think you'll have an idea of how the story will play out. It's still linear in the sense that there's a progression, but there are side areas that players can go into. It will retain that true, Metroid feel.
Quote
1UP: So is this being positioned as a spinoff game? Or is it really the next game in the series -- Metroid 5?
YS: It's part of the flow, storywise, between Super Metroid and Fusion.
Quote
1UP: I noticed that at the end of the trailer there appeared to be another Samus. What role does she play?
YS: She's not actually a second Samus, but she's a very, very important character within the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KnowsNothing on June 04, 2009, 12:41:24 AM
Well I LOVED Fusion, I don't care what the haters say.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ThePerm on June 04, 2009, 01:15:37 AM
i didnt get to finish fusion because i borrowed it from a friend, but what i did play of it was engaging.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 04, 2009, 01:43:58 AM
Wow, there sure is a lot of BAWWWWWWWWW in here.
Oh no, it doesn't fit your incredibly narrow view of what a "Metroid game" is, therefore it sucks!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on June 04, 2009, 03:04:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX1pqMwvM8U
No morph balls in '01 prime 1 demo either, but lots of action.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 04, 2009, 03:41:09 AM
How can any doubt the game now that we know Sakamoto and his team are the ones in charge? Like I suspected, Team Ninja is there for their guidance on building the visuals and a 3D environment.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 04, 2009, 03:46:51 AM
Frankly, this is the Metroid game I've been waiting for. I've always been in the "Oh man Samus is so badass why can't we have a game that finally shows it off" camp, and this looks to do just that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on June 04, 2009, 03:47:58 AM
Frankly, this is the Metroid game I've been waiting for. I've always been in the "Oh man Samus is so badass why can't we have a game that finally shows it off" camp, and this looks to do just that.
In many ways I agree, we've only seen snippets of Samus the Bounty Hunter and her fighting abilities. We know she is supposed to be an amazing fighter but so far the exploration and shooting aspect of it has been shown.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Rize on June 04, 2009, 12:02:22 PM
In other words, this game should end up great since Sakamoto and his team are the ones in charge and directing the game and Team Ninja is pretty much there to do all the coding and graphics, since Sakamoto and his team have no experience with making 3d games.
Just like I said Ian
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: jakeOSX on June 04, 2009, 12:12:33 PM
1UP: I noticed that at the end of the trailer there appeared to be another Samus. What role does she play?
YS: She's not actually a second Samus, but she's a very, very important character within the game.
ah, well so much for my speculations. and i was so looking forward to darth arun
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on June 04, 2009, 01:24:35 PM
Quote
You know if Metroid Prime had some FMVs like this game it probably would have been more popular. The real game had some great graphics, but adding a couple of those would have taken it over the top.
Oh **** no. I loved how in Metroid Prime the story was revealed in the scans. Cutscenes are a crutch. A great videogame should let you the player experience the story not watch it. I felt Metroid Prime did it perfectly. But you are right in that the game would probably be more popular. Doesn't mean it would be better though.
Finding out that Sakamoto is involved completely changes my assumptions about this game. I initially thought it was just Team Ninja being given the Metroid IP to make whatever they wanted. But with Sakamoto involved this IS a real Metroid game. I have supreme confidence in it now. This just went from "I hope this turns out good" to "I can't wait until this game comes out!" :)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 04, 2009, 01:35:07 PM
Finding out that Sakamoto is involved completely changes my assumptions about this game. I initially thought it was just Team Ninja being given the Metroid IP to make whatever they wanted. But with Sakamoto involved this IS a real Metroid game.
Man this game looks like crap, totally not a real Metroid game, they're ruining the series and abusing the franchise.
"But this guy is involved"
OH MAN A++++++ GOTY EVERY YEAR I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL IT COMES OUT BEST METROID GAME EVER
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on June 04, 2009, 01:56:07 PM
That interview was great! Come on guys they are going to give us all kinds of amazing Samus action with exploration and what appears to be an awesome story. We all knew that with each prime game and Fusion, metroid was heading into the more story driven side. It was a given, you should have all seen it coming.
This is the kind of thing I was waiting for, I feel bad some of you aren't as excited as I am. This was a gooood E3 for me.
One more thing, I don't know if this was posted but IssunZX or is it XZ? is there a X at all? any way he sent me this through AIM, the director talking about Metroid Dread! yeah I know...
You know if Metroid Prime had some FMVs like this game it probably would have been more popular. The real game had some great graphics, but adding a couple of those would have taken it over the top.
Oh **** no. I loved how in Metroid Prime the story was revealed in the scans. Cutscenes are a crutch. A great videogame should let you the player experience the story not watch it. I felt Metroid Prime did it perfectly. But you are right in that the game would probably be more popular. Doesn't mean it would be better though.
Finding out that Sakamoto is involved completely changes my assumptions about this game. I initially thought it was just Team Ninja being given the Metroid IP to make whatever they wanted. But with Sakamoto involved this IS a real Metroid game. I have supreme confidence in it now. This just went from "I hope this turns out good" to "I can't wait until this game comes out!" :)
Anyone with common sense knew that Team Ninja wasn't in full charge of it, even the way Nintendo said it stated that they were WORKING WITH it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ShyGuy on June 04, 2009, 04:40:21 PM
Who would win in a fight: Samus or a team of ninjas?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 04, 2009, 04:44:29 PM
Who would win in a fight: Samus or a team of ninjas?
Samus! Ninja's are wusses and can be beaten by Spartans.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on June 04, 2009, 05:03:40 PM
Quote
Anyone with common sense knew that Team Ninja wasn't in full charge of it, even the way Nintendo said it stated that they were WORKING WITH it.
I seem to recall Nintendo allowing Namco to use the Star Fox licence and making a lousy game out of it. I seem to recall Nintendo having NST, a FIRST PARTY dev, work on a Metroid game and we got a game that plays NOTHING like Metroid at all. So obviously I was completely out of line for being iffy about a third party developer with no experience in Metroid-style games working on a Metroid game.
Once new information was revealed to suggest otherwise I immediately changed my tune but I still feel my initial concerns were justified. It seems that the issue here is that I didn't have 100% unconditional faith in Nintendo's word.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 04, 2009, 05:15:20 PM
It seems that the issue here is that I didn't have 100% unconditional faith in Nintendo's word.
Or that your opinion of the game changes based on who's working on it, and not on how the game actually looks.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. I know I'd have signiicantly less faith in Super Mario Galaxy 2 if it weren't being made by EAD Tokyo.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on June 04, 2009, 06:05:15 PM
Quote
Or that your opinion of the game changes based on who's working on it, and not on how the game actually looks.
I think this is an incredibly logical reason for changing my opinion.
If Guns N Roses were to announce a new tour I would roll my eyes but if later it was revealed that the original lineup was involved I would change my opinion very quickly.
The people behind the game are ultimately what matters. Same with movies or books or music.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 04, 2009, 06:11:53 PM
No, it's like hearing a new song from Guns N Roses that sounds totally awesome but saying "it doesn't have the original lineup, so it's going to suck."
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 04, 2009, 06:40:00 PM
Team Ninja is certainly living up to their name and making this Metroid into a real Ninja beat-em-up. But does this really make sense in a sci-fi universe? When you are battling an enormous alien dragon thing you'd probably want to keep as much distance from it as possible... I know its cooler to jump onto its head and blow its brains out at close range, but this has never been Samus' style.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on June 04, 2009, 07:15:10 PM
Finding out that Sakamoto is involved completely changes my assumptions about this game. I initially thought it was just Team Ninja being given the Metroid IP to make whatever they wanted. But with Sakamoto involved this IS a real Metroid game.
Sakurai was still involved with Super Smash Brothers Brawl and that game was ruined so I'm still skeptical of this game myself.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 04, 2009, 07:43:09 PM
When you are battling an enormous alien dragon thing you'd probably want to keep as much distance from it as possible... I know its cooler to jump onto its head and blow its brains out at close range, but this has never been Samus' style.
She has that badass suit for a reason, and we've always HEARD about her doing awesome stuff like in the trailer for Other M, but we've just never seen it in a game.
Team Ninja is certainly living up to their name and making this Metroid into a real Ninja beat-em-up. But does this really make sense in a sci-fi universe? When you are battling an enormous alien dragon thing you'd probably want to keep as much distance from it as possible... I know its cooler to jump onto its head and blow its brains out at close range, but this has never been Samus' style.
It is AMAZING how much in depth information you have about the game. You must share your source especially after hearing that Sakamoto and his team are working extremely close with them.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 04, 2009, 09:38:14 PM
Team Ninja is certainly living up to their name and making this Metroid into a real Ninja beat-em-up. But does this really make sense in a sci-fi universe? When you are battling an enormous alien dragon thing you'd probably want to keep as much distance from it as possible... I know its cooler to jump onto its head and blow its brains out at close range, but this has never been Samus' style.
All I'm going by is that video of Samus battling that dragon thing (Ridley?). But isn't that enough? Unless they strip it out we know its already in.
It is AMAZING how much in depth information you have about the game. You must share your source especially after hearing that Sakamoto and his team are working extremely close with them.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Smoke39 on June 04, 2009, 10:48:38 PM
Since no one seems to have posted it yet, here's another interview with Sakamoto by IGN (http://wii.ign.com/articles/991/991793p1.html).
He basically reiterates that they teamed up with Team Ninja for their experience with 3D, and that this game will definitely still have exploration. In fact, he said that when they interviewed the team they didn't even know they were talking to Team Ninja; he was just interested in finding an experienced 3D developer who could understand his vision. He also talked about how the story is intended to really flesh out Samus' past.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on June 04, 2009, 11:40:22 PM
No morph balls in '01 prime 1 demo either, but lots of action.
Oh I remember how the atmosphere seemed so cool with this preview. The final game was completely different though, much more "shiny" and less organic. Not that I'm saying Prime was bad because it wasn't, but this felt more like super metroid.
Oh and they did show some morph ball in the art there, the samus studies were all to see how to fit a human in the varia suit, including samus all curled up, I'm pretty sure that was for the morphball.
I've always dreamed that someone would make a whole transformers-like transition from suit to morphball, although it seems imposible to actually come up with something like that that works realistically, but some designer should be up to the challenge! the little blocks coming around making the suit in the trailer seemed kind of lazy in my eyes.
Title: another .gif to right click-->save
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 05, 2009, 12:55:17 PM
Samus! Ninja's are wusses and can be beaten by Spartans.
Of course Samus would win, but Ninjas don't yell (they're silent assassins) before they attack just like in the beginning of the Ninjas Vs Spartans final battle, and that Spartan would've been dead right from the getgo without even knowing it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ThePerm on June 05, 2009, 03:11:45 PM
You know if Metroid Prime had some FMVs like this game it probably would have been more popular. The real game had some great graphics, but adding a couple of those would have taken it over the top.
Oh **** no. I loved how in Metroid Prime the story was revealed in the scans. Cutscenes are a crutch. A great videogame should let you the player experience the story not watch it. I felt Metroid Prime did it perfectly. But you are right in that the game would probably be more popular. Doesn't mean it would be better though.
Finding out that Sakamoto is involved completely changes my assumptions about this game. I initially thought it was just Team Ninja being given the Metroid IP to make whatever they wanted. But with Sakamoto involved this IS a real Metroid game. I have supreme confidence in it now. This just went from "I hope this turns out good" to "I can't wait until this game comes out!" :)
only a bigger intro fmv, an fmv in the middle, and one at the end are necassary, i wouldn't want the game to become metal gear solid. The pretty much did that with corruption, but at this point you want to hide that the graphics are not as good as the competitors. Half the people don't notice the gameplay graphics are different, other people think they are that way the whole game, other people just don't care about the difference.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Smoke39 on June 05, 2009, 08:13:48 PM
fixed:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/20t4fm0.jpg)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 05, 2009, 09:39:46 PM
Wow, so Samus not only has the moves of a Ninja but also the strength of a juggernaut? Looks like her beam weapons are going to be collecting dust from disuse....
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on June 05, 2009, 10:02:25 PM
Well, seeing that Team Ninja hasn't just been handed free reign to do whatever they want with the game and that Sakimoto is heavily involved does ease my worries quite a bit on this title. I'm still not entirely convinced that this interpretation of Metroid is going to work, but at least the right people are guiding it. I'm still expecting this team to stick something sissy on Samus's body armor if you pick the easiest difficulty level, though, just because this is Team Ninja, after all. ;)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 05, 2009, 10:33:12 PM
I will say that I am very pleased this Metroid isn't going to be a 1st person Halo clone the way the last three were. I am not a big fan of 1st person games, and it didn't feel like Metroid to me. I'm happy to see this one is going to be more like the originals....
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 05, 2009, 10:42:43 PM
lol halo clone, thats soo false ya troll ;)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 06, 2009, 12:28:05 AM
I will say that I am very pleased this Metroid isn't going to be a 1st person Halo clone the way the last three were. I am not a big fan of 1st person games, and it didn't feel like Metroid to me. I'm happy to see this one is going to be more like the originals....
As someone who played his first 2D Metroid a week before he played his first 3D Metroid I can safely say without being tainted by nostalgia that it's the same thing from different perspectives.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on June 06, 2009, 07:15:16 AM
Hm, a list I've seen said that Sakamoto was in charge of Fusion but not Zero Mission, is that accurate?
Anyway, he said himself it's going to be like Fusion so I won't anticipate it as a new Metroid game, maybe as a new action game but not Metroid. What the players want from a sequel to a game is another game that invokes the same feelings in them that the first one did. Fusion didn't invoke that feeling of exploration and doing this on your own (because you were always told what's up next, not going to a place to see what's there), neither did Prime 3. I doubt this one will invoke the Metroid feel even though it may be a good game on its other merits.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: rbtr on June 06, 2009, 08:53:28 AM
I always figured the bite sized exploration nuggets in fusion, and the ever present bossy computer were there because it's a handheld game. YOu get your small bit of exploring a location, and you take a break because your bus has stopped. When you pick it back up on your lunch break, it's easy to remember what to do because somebody tells you. It also made sense in terms of the story, in that it was a space station designed with different ecosystems to test stuff.
I liked fusion, it has some of the best "desperation I'm completely alone" feelings in the whole series. Samus is weaker than she's ever been, and being chased by a soul-less copy of herself from when she was the strongest. Every time the SA-X Samus popped up it was scary stuff. And the only thing that talked to you was a soul less computer AI, which I guess is something, but makes Samus lonelier because its based on her old commander's habits.
I wouldn't think that this Metroid is going to have the same exploration "problems" that fusion had, simply because it's not on a handheld. The team probably feels that it's okay to have longer exploratory sections because they assume that you'll be sitting longer.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on June 06, 2009, 09:38:24 AM
Zero Mission wasn't linearized like that despite being a handheld game and it worked fine.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: rbtr on June 06, 2009, 12:03:16 PM
Yeah...but zero mission was also a remake, to turn it into chunks would be insulting to the original game. And yes it worked fine, but they added the chozo statues that would tell you very clearly where to go. Also Sakamoto did work on Zero Mission. According to Wikipedia he directed it. Maybe him and the team realized that such a direct boss, such as Adam in fusion, was a little too much.
I'm not advocating the bit sized exploration nuggets, just saying why I thought they were there. I hope Other M has more freedom, but being more story based I doubt it. Either way Metroid is the only Nintendo story I care about, because it has a lot of mythos and samus is cute.., so I don't mind a story,as long as it's well done. I thought fusion's was interesting, so I have faith in the team.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Hostile Creation on June 06, 2009, 03:53:41 PM
I would just like to post for the first time in months to say that this game, as it appears now, looks like a generic piece of crap. It does not seem imbued with any of the mysticism, solitude, exploration, or raw wonder of Metroid games, and looks like your standard non-stop action schlock. And to add insult to injury, the visuals are ugly as sin, too.
That said, it is Metroid and Nintendo is at least looking at its development, so I'll follow it with caution.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 06, 2009, 04:42:29 PM
A frame by frame analysis by GameTrailers.com (http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/metroid-other-m-f-by-f/319769)
& yep. this game looks like crap.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/14ij39x.jpg)
Title: Who is D-Rockets?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 06, 2009, 06:53:58 PM
did you all see this?
http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/991/991793p1.html
Quote from: IGN interview
IGN: Metroid: Other M was a huge surprise for us at E3 2009 and we're really excited for it. We're wondering how the partnership with Team Ninja came about.
Yoshio Sakamoto: I've been working on Metroid games for quite awhile, but in 2006, having seen the Wii, its capabilities and the features available through it, I wanted to challenge myself to see what I could produce for that particular system and it was at that point that I started mulling other concepts. My team and myself have had experience working on Metroid game, but it's all been in the handheld realm and it's all been in 2D, so we lacked both the experience and the manpower to create a 3D Metroid experience. It was at that time that I realized I needed to find a partner help me realize my concept.
When I was considering what I was going to look for in this partner, I not only wanted to find somebody who was going to understand my concept as it existed, but could also contribute based on their own experience and expertise and I was very fortunate when I proposed this idea to members of Team Ninja and they seemed to really be able to understand and grasp my idea and they were happy to jump on board as well.
During those initial meetings, I did not approach Team Ninja knowing that they were Team Ninja and had that experience behind them. Granted, I appreciated the fact that they did have game development experience, but not specifically with regard to action games. What I was looking for was a partner that could contribute their strengths and possibly balance out our weaknesses, assuming we could do the same for them. We have the experience of creating Metroid games. They have the experience of creating action games. Together, instead of being Nintendo and Team Ninja, we became Project M. And our goal is to create the best Metroid: Other M that we can.
IGN: How is Project M separated between the teams? How big is the overall team?
Yoshio Sakamoto: In addition to the members of the staff from Nintendo and Team Ninja, as you saw in the trailer, there are a lot of cinematics that help us tell the story within Other M so we're also working with a company called D-Rockets, led by a director named Mr. Kitaura. In total, with the the three companies combined that make Project M, we have over 100 people on our staff.
Who is D-Rockets?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on June 06, 2009, 09:58:44 PM
They're probably a company that makes the CG cutscenes.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on June 06, 2009, 10:06:47 PM
I have a feeling it's these guys http://www.d-rockets.co.jp/index.html because if you look here (http://www.d-rockets.co.jp/crew/ryuzi.html) and here (http://www.d-rockets.co.jp/crew/snow.html) they worked on the cinematics for DoA.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kairon on June 06, 2009, 11:34:28 PM
I would just like to post for the first time in months to say that this game, as it appears now, looks like a generic piece of crap. It does not seem imbued with any of the mysticism, solitude, exploration, or raw wonder of Metroid games, and looks like your standard non-stop action schlock.
Hmm... yeah, the trailer certainly didn't convey the usual Metroid vibe that you expect, but there was a lot of exciting things it suggested for gameplay, like a possible 2.5D play with enemies swarming around Samus.
Besides, maybe trailers just aren't cut out to showcase the usual Metroid exploration stuff? As long as the dev team plays some Super Metroid, I'd like to think that they could do well on that front.
Of course, then again, if Team Ninja has complete license to take this thing completely in an action game direction.... *shivers*
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Smoke39 on June 07, 2009, 01:50:46 AM
Kairon, have you even been paying any attention to the interviews that have been posted? Sakamoto helped make Super Metroid. In terms of linearity and story progression, he's compared the game to Fusion. He's insisted that the game will have exploration, that he wants to maintain the Metroid "feel," and that he wants to create the ultimate Metroid experience. And Team Ninja is only there for their 3D experience, and according to Sakamoto they understand his vision.
I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying you have better evidence to go by than speculation. :b
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kairon on June 07, 2009, 03:08:07 AM
Pockets of exploration, i.e. the worst kind. The kind where you actively have to avoid reaching your goal to explore everything to avoid missing powerups and ending up underpowered later on.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on June 07, 2009, 05:04:27 AM
Pockets of exploration, i.e. the worst kind. The kind where you actively have to avoid reaching your goal to explore everything to avoid missing powerups and ending up underpowered later on.
That's an asumption.
I really enjoyed fusion although it was in the border of linearity, at the end you could still explore the whole world without limitation and there was no thing as a one time power up that goes away if you don't catch it in the right time. If its anything like that I will like it, although I would prefer more exploration.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: that Baby guy on June 09, 2009, 04:32:16 PM
I watched this trailer, and I felt like at several points, I was looking at a revival of Super Metroid gameplay. To me, this was the game announcement of E3.
The Prime games did bring the Metroid atmosphere to 3D, but I feel like they didn't completely capture the gameplay aspects. To see this title, as someone who was a tepid fan of the Prime series, makes me very excited. Even if this game turns out badly, I'm shocked to see Nintendo is willing to work out and experiment with Metroid, and possibly other games, in order to recreate new experiences to capture the feel of a 2D game in a 3D environment.
I'm not iffy about the cutscenes, I don't see anyone complaining about the sub-linearity of Prime 3 or cutscenes from them here, so I think we should dismiss these things until after we know more. I, however, look forward to speed booster running, one of my favorite Metroid things.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on June 10, 2009, 10:28:58 AM
I withhold judgment on this game until I see the requisite Justin Bailey. That is the true measure of any real Metroid game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on June 10, 2009, 11:32:15 AM
I withhold judgment on this game until I see the requisite Justin Bailey. That is the true measure of any real Metroid game.
Yet at least one long time forum member here swears that it has been only recently that Nintendo has been selling up Samus' sex appeal (since the don of the Zero Suit i believe). HA!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Deguello on June 10, 2009, 12:03:37 PM
Quote
Yet at least one long time forum member here swears that it has been only recently that Nintendo has been selling up Samus' sex appeal (since the don of the Zero Suit i believe). HA!
Could it be possible that this is just the march of 3-D Technology making depictions of any women in games more sexual by default because polygonal bewbs are more "sexual" then 5-pixel bewbs, and not any real intent on the creator's part?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on June 10, 2009, 12:18:51 PM
Yet at least one long time forum member here swears that it has been only recently that Nintendo has been selling up Samus' sex appeal (since the don of the Zero Suit i believe). HA!
Could it be possible that this is just the march of 3-D Technology making depictions of any women in games more sexual by default because polygonal bewbs are more "sexual" then 5-pixel bewbs, and not any real intent on the creator's part?
Hm i didnt mean to try and start this debate back up cuz:
a. its annoying b. i don't really care either way
but for arguments sake; despite the how powerful the technology you're using is, the art direction taken with that tech, and in turn the creators vision, is what creats the 'sex appeal' behind female characters in video games. Look at Lauro Croft on the original PSX vs Joanna Dark on the N64. I'm sure you can see where those two femme fatales differ greatly and its not the hair and wardrobe.
But thats all i'll say cuz this is a stupid argument.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 10, 2009, 12:21:17 PM
I like Rebecca Chambers, Lilith, and Samantha.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on June 10, 2009, 05:45:04 PM
Could it be possible that this is just the march of 3-D Technology making depictions of any women in games more sexual by default because polygonal bewbs are more "sexual" then 5-pixel bewbs, and not any real intent on the creator's part?
Possibly. But this greater technology also enables them to finally show Samus with some actual muscle tone, which she should have if we are expected to believe she is as strong as they say.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 10, 2009, 05:52:56 PM
Her strength comes from the suit. So she is as strong as the suit lets her be.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: that Baby guy on June 10, 2009, 06:10:45 PM
Except.... Since at least Super Metroid, canonical and non-canonical sources depict Samus herself as a solid athlete, with various gymnastic and acrobatic trainings, among things. The suit amplifies her strength, yes, but look at Zero-Suit Samus in Metroid: Zero Mission to show how agile she is. Samus in this game would need a well-toned, athletic body to be an accurate depiction, or some kind of super space steroid, at least.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on June 10, 2009, 08:39:14 PM
Except.... Since at least Super Metroid, canonical and non-canonical sources depict Samus herself as a solid athlete, with various gymnastic and acrobatic trainings, among things. The suit amplifies her strength, yes, but look at Zero-Suit Samus in Metroid: Zero Mission to show how agile she is. Samus in this game would need a well-toned, athletic body to be an accurate depiction, or some kind of super space steroid, at least.
Exactly. The Chozo raised Samus and trained her to be a fighter, and then when her training was complete they gave her her power suit. She's supposed to be a pretty good warrior outside the suit, but the armored and well-armed power suit allows her to raise her game to that next level.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 10, 2009, 10:13:09 PM
The only downside of her armor is it gives her broad-shoulders and a not very feminine form.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: nickmitch on June 10, 2009, 10:27:13 PM
She still looks hawt.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 11, 2009, 01:13:46 AM
Yeah, but she's hot only because we know what is hiding underneath the armor. ;) We can't see it, which sucks, but knowing its there is cool..
That said, I wish Nintendo would bring back the code to have her in a bikini. Now that we have a Metroid game in 3rd person having her in a bikini would actually matter, so they'd better do it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on June 11, 2009, 01:18:47 AM
There wasn't a water area in MP3. Never happening
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on June 11, 2009, 02:03:44 AM
Also don't forget she also has Chazo blood flowing through her. I'd like to see a flash back of how they did that!
The Chazo are so mysterious, how could anyone NOT want a really fleshed out story, especialy with that race involved? When the first Prime came out, I started researching the Metroid mythos like crazy. Of course there was barely anything to find, but I was still captivated. Now im super glad we really get to learn more. We will finally have official cannon confirmation that Star Fox, F-Zero, amd Metroid are all the same universe. Just different galaxies. Mario to.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on June 11, 2009, 02:11:32 AM
I withhold judgment on this game until I see the requisite Justin Bailey. That is the true measure of any real Metroid game.
I'm not sure if you know this or not, but Justin Bailey is not the name of a person. The confusion arises from the NES password input screen, which has a space in between two sets of six characters. As described in Nintendo Power in response to a letter regarding the code, it is actually three words: just in bailey. A bailey is another name for a swimsuit, apparently.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on June 11, 2009, 02:14:23 AM
Maybe Justin Bailey is the name of the Chozo that gives her the outfit
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on June 11, 2009, 02:19:24 AM
Did you just question Nintendo Power?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on June 11, 2009, 02:23:17 AM
Maybe NP was under Ing occupation at the time and wanted to spread their vile propaganda across the galaxy.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 11, 2009, 02:52:19 AM
I withhold judgment on this game until I see the requisite Justin Bailey. That is the true measure of any real Metroid game.
I'm not sure if you know this or not, but Justin Bailey is not the name of a person. The confusion arises from the NES password input screen, which has a space in between two sets of six characters. As described in Nintendo Power in response to a letter regarding the code, it is actually three words: just in bailey. A bailey is another name for a swimsuit, apparently.
I read that letter. Supposedly some dude put in his name in the password screen and that is how it was found out.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on June 11, 2009, 11:43:38 AM
I withhold judgment on this game until I see the requisite Justin Bailey. That is the true measure of any real Metroid game.
I'm not sure if you know this or not, but Justin Bailey is not the name of a person. The confusion arises from the NES password input screen, which has a space in between two sets of six characters. As described in Nintendo Power in response to a letter regarding the code, it is actually three words: just in bailey. A bailey is another name for a swimsuit, apparently.
I read that too, but i'd heard about it before that letter to NP actually.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: that Baby guy on June 11, 2009, 01:03:37 PM
All I know is that Arwings and F-zero cars have G-diffusers, and that there's something wrong with Falco's.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on June 11, 2009, 01:21:09 PM
I withhold judgment on this game until I see the requisite Justin Bailey. That is the true measure of any real Metroid game.
I'm not sure if you know this or not, but Justin Bailey is not the name of a person. The confusion arises from the NES password input screen, which has a space in between two sets of six characters. As described in Nintendo Power in response to a letter regarding the code, it is actually three words: just in bailey. A bailey is another name for a swimsuit, apparently.
For the record Bailey (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=rW&defl=en&q=define:bailey&ei=DlQxSomhMcqptgffuM3jBQ&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title) doesn't mean swimsuit.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: that Baby guy on June 11, 2009, 03:15:12 PM
Quote
baileys - The Bailey units are enormous flying robots with heavy weaponry. They have taken over the surface and forced humans underground.
Ah, I see. Good point.
Edit: In all truthiness, wasn't "Justin Bailey" just a massive code coincidence? That the values of the letters fit into the passcode system by how it was designed, and isn't something that was written for fun? There's just about nothing on the internets associated Bailey or Baileys with any kind of clothing aside from the Justin case, really.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 11, 2009, 03:30:33 PM
Yep, it's random. There are a lot of odd codes in the game. Justin Bailey just became popular because it was easy to remember.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: rbtr on June 11, 2009, 04:30:30 PM
ACTUALLY, its not.
If you download the password generator from the Metroid database (http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/index.php?p=fanapps) and enter the parameters for the "Justin Bailey" you'll see that the random password it gives you is not "Justin Bailey" Not to mention the variations (http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/index.php?g=m1&p=passwords) of the "Justin Bailey" code lead this gamer to believe that this was some sort of bizarre in joke at the development team. Similar to the pre-programmed codes in Metroid's sister game Kid Icarus.
The more you know....
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on June 11, 2009, 04:33:19 PM
Well, you can do a string search for "justinbailey" in the ROM dump or something...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: rbtr on June 11, 2009, 04:52:35 PM
KDR is right we can. The Metroid database has the source code (http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/m1/m1source.txt) for Metroid. And a quick search reveals that "justin bailey" is in the source code, ergo programmed into the game and not random.
So there, mystery solved. I guess...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: that Baby guy on June 11, 2009, 04:59:05 PM
If you download the password generator from the Metroid database (http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/index.php?p=fanapps) and enter the parameters for the "Justin Bailey" you'll see that the random password it gives you is not "Justin Bailey" Not to mention the variations (http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/index.php?g=m1&p=passwords) of the "Justin Bailey" code lead this gamer to believe that this was some sort of bizarre in joke at the development team. Similar to the pre-programmed codes in Metroid's sister game Kid Icarus.
The more you know....
However, if you read the same website's FAQ...
Quote
WHO IS JUSTIN BAILEY?!?!?!
Although rumors have abounded over the years as to the identity of Justin Bailey -- ranging from some kid who beat the game to claims of "bailey" being a slang term for "swimsuit" (just in bailey, get it?), the truth is that the JUSTIN BAILEY password is a total fluke. If you play around with Metroid's password system something you can do with the Metroid Password Generator program, found in Fan Apps), you can come up with other names and words that work as passwords. The "Justin Bailey" code is one which was found early on and happened to work pretty well, so it became widely reported. In other words, there is no Justin Bailey who is associated with the Metroid universe and got his name made into a password.
...You see they say the password's existence is a fluke, a product of the password system. It sounds to me like similar effects can be achieved by varying passwords, and this is one example.
KDR is right we can. The Metroid database has the source code (http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/m1/m1source.txt) for Metroid. And a quick search reveals that "justin bailey" is in the source code, ergo programmed into the game and not random.
So there, mystery solved. I guess...
That's a very subjective way to look at it. That's not the game's "true" source code, but rather that's more of an attempt to rebuild Metroid from the dump. The reference "JustInBailey" used is just what the programmer calls Samus in Metroid without a suit, and by programmer, I mean SnowBro [Kent Hansen] <kentmhan@online.no>, btw. He doesn't refer to it as a loaded password, but rather a "Status" of Samus, doesn't he? That's clearly an attempt to rebuild the idea by it's most recognizable name, not something the original programmers annotated.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 11, 2009, 06:09:57 PM
If you download the password generator from the Metroid database (http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/index.php?p=fanapps) and enter the parameters for the "Justin Bailey" you'll see that the random password it gives you is not "Justin Bailey" Not to mention the variations (http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/index.php?g=m1&p=passwords) of the "Justin Bailey" code lead this gamer to believe that this was some sort of bizarre in joke at the development team. Similar to the pre-programmed codes in Metroid's sister game Kid Icarus.
The more you know....
However, if you read the same website's FAQ...
Quote
WHO IS JUSTIN BAILEY?!?!?!
Although rumors have abounded over the years as to the identity of Justin Bailey -- ranging from some kid who beat the game to claims of "bailey" being a slang term for "swimsuit" (just in bailey, get it?), the truth is that the JUSTIN BAILEY password is a total fluke. If you play around with Metroid's password system something you can do with the Metroid Password Generator program, found in Fan Apps), you can come up with other names and words that work as passwords. The "Justin Bailey" code is one which was found early on and happened to work pretty well, so it became widely reported. In other words, there is no Justin Bailey who is associated with the Metroid universe and got his name made into a password.
...You see they say the password's existence is a fluke, a product of the password system. It sounds to me like similar effects can be achieved by varying passwords, and this is one example.
KDR is right we can. The Metroid database has the source code (http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/m1/m1source.txt) for Metroid. And a quick search reveals that "justin bailey" is in the source code, ergo programmed into the game and not random.
So there, mystery solved. I guess...
That's a very subjective way to look at it. That's not the game's "true" source code, but rather that's more of an attempt to rebuild Metroid from the dump. The reference "JustInBailey" used is just what the programmer calls Samus in Metroid without a suit, and by programmer, I mean SnowBro [Kent Hansen] <kentmhan@online.no>, btw. He doesn't refer to it as a loaded password, but rather a "Status" of Samus, doesn't he? That's clearly an attempt to rebuild the idea by it's most recognizable name, not something the original programmers annotated.
I still think its programmed in....but hey, there maybe a better way to find out! If I recall, Kid Icarus's secret pre-programmed codes didn't work on the VC, so one would assume, that if "Justin Bailey" doesnt work on the VC then it's programmed in.
Right?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on June 11, 2009, 09:49:25 PM
...oookay.
Regardless of how it is delivered, the Zero-Suit/swimsuit has existed in Metroid lore since the first game, and unlike other franchises, Samus' sex appeal is never front-and-center in marketing. Even in Fusion and Zero Mission, she was shown in full armor on the box art and backing. At best, it's a sick but low-key reward that is a mere cherry on the multiple-tiered cake that is a Metroid game, frosted with Awesome.
But it's an important cherry.
I forgot where I was going with this.
Anyways, Team Ninja. Zero Suit. I sense good things about this combination. My one concern is that we'll never see Fusion's free-flowing platinum hair again... nothing can top that, even the skimpiest suit Itagaki could implement short of making a Sexy Beach spinoff.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 11, 2009, 09:53:39 PM
Anyways, Team Ninja. Zero Suit. I sense good things about this combination. My one concern is that we'll never see Fusion's free-flowing platinum hair again... nothing can top that, even the skimpiest suit Itagaki could implement short of making a Sexy Beach spinoff.
Stevey. Paging Stevey. We have a customer at the front desk requiring some HAWTNESS. Stevey can you report to the front desk in regards to some HAWTNESS.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on June 12, 2009, 12:02:59 AM
A game of epic 'proportions' indeed.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on June 12, 2009, 03:01:27 PM
Check this out from www.n-europe.com
http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=13334
Reggie discusses his sales hopes for Nintendo and Team Ninja's joint venture...
Speaking to Gamespot in a video interview, Nintendo of America president, Reggie Fils-Aime set a bold figure for the company's sales expectations of Metroid: Other M. The COO stated that the series was a key franchise for Nintendo, but acknowledged "...since the SNES [Super] Metroid, we haven't broken through in terms of 1.5 - 2 million units. That's our bar. That's the scale that we look at to say on a global basis this is effective”.
In related news, the Team Ninja's Yusuke Hayashi has moved to quash fears gamers may have that the game will lose the Metroidey feel.
"First of all, it's not my intent to create a Ninja Gaiden version for Metroid with Other M. Our goal is definitely to use our know-how to our advantage in developing something that is still distinctly Metroid, but has all those qualities that would make it even better than what people would expect. A trailer being a trailer, it's going to have the sequences in it that are more action-packed, maybe a little more violent, but it's not going to be all of this game."
Hayashi went on to promise a playable version of Other M should be ready for the press very soon, so stick around to hear more about this very mysterious title...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 12, 2009, 03:14:49 PM
WOOHOO!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on June 12, 2009, 03:22:27 PM
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on June 12, 2009, 05:00:00 PM
I like how the PR for this game has been handled. They show the trailer, reveal Team Ninja as the dev and although the reaction to the trailer is mostly postive there is doubt and concern about it feeling like a "real" Metroid game. So they acknowledge that and address the concerns. As time has gone by more has been revealed and every time it makes me feel more confident in the game and more interested. It's gone from "oh **** they farmed off Metroid to another dev" to "this is my most anticipated game!"
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on June 12, 2009, 06:45:13 PM
"...since the SNES [Super] Metroid, we haven't broken through in terms of 1.5 - 2 million units. That's our bar. That's the scale that we look at to say on a global basis this is effective”.
This may actually be achievable. This game looks to have a bit wider appeal than the Prime series and it will be released on a system with a larger userbase than the past games (by the time this is released I'm sure the Wii will have passed the NES).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 12, 2009, 07:40:24 PM
From what I have seen so far, it does not look like it will be better than the Metroid Prime games. The MP games were the best Metroid games, so Metroid: Other M has a huge challenge ahead of it. The initial trailer did not impress me at all, but I will reserve final judgment until reviews come in.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 12, 2009, 11:17:20 PM
I like how the PR for this game has been handled. They show the trailer, reveal Team Ninja as the dev and although the reaction to the trailer is mostly postive there is doubt and concern about it feeling like a "real" Metroid game. So they acknowledge that and address the concerns. As time has gone by more has been revealed and every time it makes me feel more confident in the game and more interested. It's gone from "oh **** they farmed off Metroid to another dev" to "this is my most anticipated game!"
So does this mean you were more or less satisfied with this year's E3 announcements, and that you are still a Nintendo fan? I remember you said this year's E3 would be "make or break" for you.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on June 13, 2009, 01:04:04 PM
From what I have seen so far, it does not look like it will be better than the Metroid Prime games. The MP games were the best Metroid games, so Metroid: Other M has a huge challenge ahead of it. The initial trailer did not impress me at all, but I will reserve final judgment until reviews come in.
The Metroid Prime games were not really for every Metroid fan. While some of the Metroid fanbase loved it, the others were not so pleased.
And Metroid: Other M is being supervised by the main guy behind the 2D Metroids. This should do some good for Team Ninja.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 13, 2009, 01:12:30 PM
Most Metroid fans I have seen loved the Metroid Prime games. The people who didn't like it are definitely in the minority. I hope that after "Metroid: Other M" the next 3D Metroid returns to the Prime formula.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on June 13, 2009, 01:43:53 PM
Quote
So does this mean you were more or less satisfied with this year's E3 announcements, and that you are still a Nintendo fan? I remember you said this year's E3 would be "make or break" for you.
I was expecting something a little more dramatic actually. Either a real turnaround or comparable to last year where it appeared that core gamers were no longer part of Nintendo's plans. I saw them sliding more into a non-gamer company focus as time was going by and now it seems like they've just gone back to more how they were around the Wii launch. I wasn't that cool with where the Wii was at then, just moreso then what was to come. I'm more impressed with 2010's lineup as 2009 seems quite barren.
But I have a Wii so I'm not going to get rid of it. Some great games are in the works, like this one, so I might as well hang on to the console that plays them. And this still is my most anticipated title and would be even if I owned all three consoles. But if Sony EVER lowers the price of the PS3 I'm getting one. The Wii alone will never be good enough. And next gen everything is up in the air. I see myself as neutral with any console maker being able to win me over. I guess it's not "the hell with Nintendo" but more like Nintendo just doesn't have a guaranteed purchase from me next gen.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 13, 2009, 04:42:13 PM
Metroid Prime made me a Metroid "fan."
Only with Prime did Metroid become relavant by appealing to real Zelda fans.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 13, 2009, 11:27:47 PM
Most Metroid fans I have seen loved the Metroid Prime games. The people who didn't like it are definitely in the minority. I hope that after "Metroid: Other M" the next 3D Metroid returns to the Prime formula.
Unlikely, especially if Other M does well. Why would they go back?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on June 14, 2009, 02:09:24 AM
Only with Prime did Metroid become relavant by appealing to real Zelda fans.
I don't see how you figure that when Zelda was never a 1st person shooter. Metroid and Super Metroid were basically LoZ set in Space...
Prime had lock on mechanics and pull-the-puzzle-off-three-times bosses like all the post-OOT Zeldas.
Anyway, I slightly prefer 2D Metroid over Prime just as I prefer 2D Zelda over 3D Zelda (though the gap with the latter is much bigger than with the former).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Snipper64 on June 14, 2009, 10:39:56 AM
A recent interview with team ninja did say it would be a more "traditional" metriod... but by the looks of this screen shot, still looks like it is still have prime elements :D
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Snipper64 on June 14, 2009, 10:41:44 AM
Then again after I am looking at it... Doesn't look like a RAIL shooter? Perhaps that is the other 3d mode we are all confused about... makes sence though for this type of game...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: redgiemental on June 14, 2009, 11:21:32 AM
I'm much more excited for this than I would be another Metroid Prime game.
I like the Prime games and all but I think I'd prefer a fresh take on it.
The more i see about this game the more I like the look of it.
Can't wait for 2010.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on June 14, 2009, 01:14:13 PM
The best of suitless samus representation was supermetroid, strong, muscular and athletic, and still it was only a brief glimpse, and it also included the most awesome death sequence in all the games.
Zero mission was the start of something ugly, and the japanese commercial for the game with its ass shots is a clear indicative of what they wanted. Given team ninja's reputation, after the trailer we can at least be glad they restricted themselves somewhat since it could be much, much worse.
However we get the generic anime female character thats supposed to be "strong" but who still has the face of a little girl, and a considerable breast size. As said, it could be much worse, but this is still far from what the character should be.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 14, 2009, 01:55:11 PM
Team Ninja's obsession with asses and big breasts (not that it's a bad thing) was because of Tomonobu Itagaki. Without him I don't see Team Ninja being focused on them with Samus.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 14, 2009, 02:56:23 PM
Monica Bellucci, one of the sexiest women on Earth http://i44.tinypic.com/5mgxgl.jpg
Samus Aran, one of the sexiest women not on Earth http://i44.tinypic.com/rw6p8g.jpg
And Samus as she appears in Metroid Fusion :fap: http://i42.tinypic.com/2ajuiky.png
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 16, 2009, 01:58:43 AM
Can there ever be a female videogame heroine that isn't sexified? I mean, there needs to be a game where the heroine looks and dresses like Velma from Scooby Doo.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 16, 2009, 02:06:21 AM
There was Jade from BG&E, not sexualized at all.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on June 16, 2009, 02:41:42 AM
Whatever her name is from Mirror's Edge.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on June 16, 2009, 11:42:12 AM
Joanna Dark (pre-microsoft owned Rare)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on June 16, 2009, 01:47:38 PM
A quick Google for "Joanna Dark N64" reveals some of the detailed pinup renders that were used in promotional artwork at the time. Although quite perky in her own right, I have a feeling she was more geared towards the legs-and-hips set. I mean, seriously... heeled boots and leg plates running the length of her thighs? Not to mention the focus on the angle of her hips, with the leg plates highlighting the skintight dark blue suit...
Even if the in-game model was more of a plain beauty (one that I especially adored in private), the N64 Joanna Dark was as sexualized as any of her contemporary heroines.
No woman is safe from Chicago Ted commercial sexualization.
Even Princess Peach got sexy by proxy with Rosalina, and before that there was Strikers, Tennis, and Melee upskirt...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 16, 2009, 01:49:08 PM
Carmen Sandi-
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 16, 2009, 06:07:59 PM
Male gamers will do the sexualizing if the designers don't. Rule 34 basically nullifies the whole question.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on June 16, 2009, 06:35:27 PM
A quick Google for "Joanna Dark N64" reveals some of the detailed pinup renders that were used in promotional artwork at the time. Although quite perky in her own right, I have a feeling she was more geared towards the legs-and-hips set. I mean, seriously... heeled boots and leg plates running the length of her thighs? Not to mention the focus on the angle of her hips, with the leg plates highlighting the skintight dark blue suit...
Even if the in-game model was more of a plain beauty (one that I especially adored in private), the N64 Joanna Dark was as sexualized as any of her contemporary heroines.
No woman is safe from Chicago Ted commercial sexualization.
Even Princess Peach got sexy by proxy with Rosalina, and before that there was Strikers, Tennis, and Melee upskirt...
i figured someone would bring that up about Perfect Dark 64. The thing with me is, i know ads are going to sexualize females cuz "sex sells" and theres no changing that at this point, i believe. The commercial for the game was much worse than any of the pinup renders though; the actress in it was shown in the shower then wore nothing but a tank top and panties, and you never even saw her face.
my problem is more when characters are sexualized in-game, and if you compare joanna dark to lara croft, well.. need i say more?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on June 16, 2009, 07:45:29 PM
Not that I don't deny that there is obvious intentional sexualization of female videogame characters but in some cases the character more or less has to be an attractive female and that will result in hetrosexual males being sexually attracted to her regardless of any intentional exploitation from the developer. For Samus to do the things she does in the game she HAS to be in decent shape. So she's going to have a decent body because it wouldn't make sense for a dumpy out-of-shape woman to be doing flips and killing space pirates. She's going to have to be somewhat young as well since someone with that level of fitness is likely going to be under 40. So you have a woman under 40 with a physically fit body? Unless she has some sort of disfiguration, at leat some portion of hetrosexual men will find that attractive.
The only way you could truly make female characters that the vast majority of men don't get the hots for is if she was an old hag. And unless you're playing a witch or this is Ms. Marple: The Game then that's not going to make much sense.
I find it very odd that people point out Jade from BG&E as a non-sexualized female. She wears a tight t-shirt that's low cut and bares her midriff. I think that's sexualizing her at least a little bit.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: that Baby guy on June 16, 2009, 07:49:52 PM
Can there ever be a female videogame heroine that isn't sexified?
Not until Birdo gets a game.
With the game industry being predominantly male this sort of thing is difficult not to fall into.
I'd play a Birdo game, but only if Birdo is the reincarnation of Link in the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on June 16, 2009, 07:53:27 PM
What would be the point of that? Sorry but Birdo is never going to wield a sword and shield.
Besides, isn't Link already the reincarnation of a previous Link, or something?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 16, 2009, 08:01:12 PM
You don't think its possible that Birdo could be sexualized? Hell, look at Candy Kong from the DK franchise or Krystal. Here you have female characters that aren't even human for crying out loud, and yet they are sexualized.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on June 16, 2009, 08:24:33 PM
You don't think its possible that Birdo could be sexualized?
Of course it's possible, in fact I've seen it in some fan art I've stumbled across. But I don't think it would happen because it doesn't really fit, plus it would only limit the appeal of the game. Although... if that did happen I can picture a big Metroid-like reveal after you beat the game where you find out that Birdo is male. It would be the most epic "joke's on you" moment in the history of gaming.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on June 16, 2009, 08:33:03 PM
Candy Kong and Krystal..must be the fur
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 16, 2009, 08:38:17 PM
Krystal's got tail.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: that Baby guy on June 16, 2009, 10:32:52 PM
Nobody said that the Birdo reincarnation would have a sword and shield, did they? Literally, Link would be a Birdo. Someone should patch SMB 2 and place Link caps on all the Birdos.
It's better than my space-pirate-girl-Link idea I've got floating around somewhere.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on June 16, 2009, 10:36:17 PM
Birdo looks just fine in a bow, plus I don't think green is his colour. What's wrong with Birdo's personality which makes you say Link should become Birdo?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: that Baby guy on June 16, 2009, 10:47:52 PM
Well, I suppose Birdo could fly an Arwing, but.. I dunno, how does a Birdo handle intense G's? Maybe Birdo could fit in a Power Suit. Actually, that could work. A Morph Egg, instead of a Morph Ball. Alright. Birdo can also be a fellow bounty hunter, adopted by the Chozo, if need be.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on June 16, 2009, 10:52:23 PM
No. Birdo isn't going to copy the style of some other character. If Birdo stars in a game then it needs to be as unique as Birdo himself.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on June 16, 2009, 10:58:58 PM
Well, I suppose Birdo could fly an Arwing, but.. I dunno, how does a Birdo handle intense G's? Maybe Birdo could fit in a Power Suit. Actually, that could work. A Morph Egg, instead of a Morph Ball. Alright. Birdo can also be a fellow bounty hunter, adopted by the Chozo, if need be.
Co-op with Birdo confirmed in Other M? Though Yoshi does morph into an egg to roll around in Smath Brothers.
This thread is on a very odd swing. ???
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on June 17, 2009, 12:31:45 AM
oh god what did I start?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 17, 2009, 06:33:54 AM
Birdo Fetish Costume
Image removed, hotlinking images/bandwidth leeching is NOT allowed. ~Flames_of_chaos
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 17, 2009, 09:20:47 AM
That is so disturbing.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on June 17, 2009, 10:38:06 AM
Can we please stop talking about Birdo in a Metroid thread. This is getting pretty damn annoying considering no matter what topic in any given part of the forums a thread gets derailed with stupid birdo discussion, especially when theres TWO whole topics in the funhouse that can't be derailed because they're about NOTHING.
And i'm sure theres at least one funhouse thread soley about birdos sexuality. Can you just keep that **** outta here?
Every day i see new posts were added to a topic i'm interested in, and every day i get dissapointed that there is:
1: No new information (interviews, pics, trailers, etc) 2: Healthy discussion/game speculation
Now please, as a daily visitor to this site i ask you stop derailing every topic into this silly discussion. There's a time and a place for it and its the Funhouse (open 24/7).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on June 17, 2009, 11:19:47 AM
Can there ever be a female videogame heroine that isn't sexified?
Not until Birdo gets a game.
Freshly picked: Birdo's Rosy Eggland?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on June 17, 2009, 04:34:45 PM
I'm most interested in Metroid: Other M game because of how it appears to have 2-D gameplay.
When was the last time 2.5D was thrown around for a game?
A 2.5D Metroid has a lot of potential to both harken back to the classic Metroid formula, but also to expand it in new and exciting directions while still being in a similar vein to said classics.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NovaQ on June 17, 2009, 06:31:23 PM
I'm most interested in Metroid: Other M game because of how it appears to have 2-D gameplay.
When was the last time 2.5D was thrown around for a game?
A 2.5D Metroid has a lot of potential to both harken back to the classic Metroid formula, but also to expand it in new and exciting directions while still being in a similar vein to said classics.
Klonoa just came out and is 2.5-D, though it is a remake of a game from the 90s. At any rate, it did some interesting things with the added half-D, particularly branching paths that depend on depth (as opposed to just height and width like regular 2-D).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 17, 2009, 09:50:35 PM
Could Other M possibly do what Star Fox 64 did and have the gameplay open up into full 3D movement for boss fights?
I think the trailer already reveals hints of 3-D boss fights. It's definitely going to be interesting to see what the devs do with 2.5-D.
Hm.. do you mean when they go into a first person view? Cuz I've been questioning that lately.. If the games 2.5D, but had sections in full 3d but with a FP perspective, I'd hope the player isn't immediately thrown into them. I just feel that play control wise, it could get confusing, but only if done wrong.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NovaQ on June 18, 2009, 10:45:39 AM
There might be select boss battles that are completely handled in first-person 3-D. I imagine in those cases there could be either a cutscene or a "WARNING, WARNING" kinda thing where the camera transitions into Samus' helmet.
But wasn't there also a clip in the trailer that showed Samus running toward the screen (in 3rd-person, of course) as a boss chased after her? I suppose that's another way bosses could be handled - that is, with the camera focused on the boss while also allowing Samus to be seen.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on June 18, 2009, 11:04:03 AM
There might be select boss battles that are completely handled in first-person 3-D. I imagine in those cases there could be either a cutscene or a "WARNING, WARNING" kinda thing where the camera transitions into Samus' helmet.
But wasn't there also a clip in the trailer that showed Samus running toward the screen (in 3rd-person, of course) as a boss chased after her? I suppose that's another way bosses could be handled - that is, with the camera focused on the boss while also allowing Samus to be seen.
its so hard to tell with that trailer though, cuz even the parts that looked like gameplay could've been in-game cinematics. Guess we'll see when more info is released.
Oh and i'm confident that they'd pull off the perspective switch fine. Unless they give you a button to go from 2.5D to FPS 3D at your choosing (like super paper mario did sorta), it'll probably be just like you mentioned: some sorta cutscene will play out to transition you from each perpsective. Just like how Star Fox 64 did!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on June 18, 2009, 02:44:00 PM
Could Other M possibly do what Star Fox 64 did and have the gameplay open up into full 3D movement for boss fights?
I think the trailer already reveals hints of 3-D boss fights. It's definitely going to be interesting to see what the devs do with 2.5-D.
That's why I mentioned it. It really looked like you have more freedom on some of those fights.
I'm not sure if I like the idea of forcing a perspective change like that.
Well it would kinda have to... If you could change perspective at will the game might be feel a little broken.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on June 18, 2009, 03:13:36 PM
I've changed perspective at will in a lot of games. Mario, Zelda, racing games. Even Metroid Prime has different perspectives you control at will. It all depends on how the game is designed.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on June 18, 2009, 03:26:23 PM
I've changed perspective at will in a lot of games. Mario, Zelda, racing games. Even Metroid Prime has different perspectives you control at will. It all depends on how the game is designed.
But those examples might make a game thats shown off as 2.5d seem broken if you can just choose to go into first person and shoot enemies instead of performing those crazy stunts we see samus pull in the trailer. It works in mario and zelda etc cuz the games already in full 3d, but when you have a fixed perspective, the game would have to be carefully balanced if it were going to let you change perspective at will.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 18, 2009, 03:40:44 PM
Standing still in first person Metroid is lame. The trailer did not indicate it would be more than "point at this."
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on June 18, 2009, 03:52:50 PM
Standing still in first person Metroid is lame. The trailer did not indicate it would be more than "point at this."
Thats exactly what i thought. It felt like instead of it being portions of the game that play in free-roaming 3D first person view, you'd get more of a shooting gallery type of game play. Maybe even... *shudders* ON-RAILS!
METROID: OTHER MESS
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 18, 2009, 04:06:58 PM
LAFFO
Space Pirate Carnival Ride level, confirmed.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 29, 2010, 03:29:21 PM
Official Website launched today
http://metroid.jp/
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on January 29, 2010, 03:46:30 PM
Looks so un-Metroid like, with that picture they chose. But I don't mind this new direction at all, looking forward to it very much.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on January 29, 2010, 05:53:13 PM
Quote
Looks so un-Metroid like, with that picture they chose. But I don't mind this new direction at all, looking forward to it very much.
It does look odd but it fits the style we saw at E3. I have a feeling this is a serious attempt from NCL to make Metroid popular in Japan. I flip flop between excitement and concern. We just need to find out more about it. And considering how soon this is due for release we won't have to wait long.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on January 29, 2010, 07:26:26 PM
The picture they chose is, I believe, FROM the E3 trailer.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on January 29, 2010, 07:41:44 PM
Samus and the City looks good.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: EasyCure on January 30, 2010, 12:34:00 AM
Cosmopalitans in SPPPAAAACEEE! (?)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on January 30, 2010, 12:55:21 AM
Federation log 22152.1 Maybe some metroids aren't meant to be tamed. Maybe they need to run free until they find someone just as wild to run with.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 30, 2010, 01:02:49 AM
Someone like Tingle.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on January 30, 2010, 01:12:15 AM
I swear on the Ubisoft 66 if one of the bounty hunters is named Carrie or Miranda, I'm going to buy a copy of Imagine: Party Babiez
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on January 30, 2010, 05:22:14 AM
Aren't you supposed to swear upon something of value?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 30, 2010, 01:52:25 PM
Since GP has the most uninformative and boring OP ever, I thought I would do her a favor and create one worthy of this game from all the information, pics and gifs found in this thread.
Interviews: Developer Interview with 1up (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?pager.offset=0&cId=3174587&p=44)
Sakamoto interview with IGN (http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/991/991793p1.html)
Reggie mentions sales expectations for Metroid: Other M (http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=13334)
Extra: A frame by frame analysis by GameTrailers.com (http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/metroid-other-m-f-by-f/319769)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on January 30, 2010, 02:14:34 PM
Awesome frame by frame analysis! So excited to see a Chazo in some sort of flash back! The biggest surprise in Metroid Zero Mission was seeing young Samus walking with who appeared to be her guardian. Thats right a non dead/statue Chazo. Very excitied for this game!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 30, 2010, 02:39:52 PM
This looks like it could be the game I've been waiting for since Super Metroid back on the SNES. The Prime games were FPS ala Halo, so they didn't feel like proper Metroid games to me. This game is in the appropriate third person perspective, so that's good.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kairon on January 30, 2010, 02:53:22 PM
Just watched the trailer for this again. Big mistake. Now I'm hyped and there's nowhere to go but down! T_T
Actually, looking at this, I'm hoping for some utterly new 2.5D gameplay.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on January 30, 2010, 04:49:55 PM
Samus' Japanese VA... could it be the same VA that voiced her in Brawl (if she DID get a Japanese voice over), or some voice actress familiar to Team Ninja?
Her voice sounds somewhat similar to Ayane from Ninja Gaiden Sigma.
Also, music on the web page is quite nice.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ThePerm on January 31, 2010, 01:25:03 AM
the weird thing about this is i had a similar vision to how the starfox world would be like...and thats pretty much the direction their going with this new metroid
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on January 31, 2010, 02:32:34 AM
I don't care about Samus as a character, learning more about the Chozo is nice though (the real star of Metroid is always the environment and the exploration thereof, Samus is just an armored thing that jumps and shoots when we press the buttons).
I'll just point here for my concerns (http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/metroid-other-m-website-launches-metroid-fans-get-scared/). The comparisons to Fusion make me think Other M will be another instant trashcan game that should never be made.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on January 31, 2010, 02:49:56 AM
Quote
“With Fusion, that game was very story-driven. In that game, I believe I was able to explain Samus as a character, as a person, not just somebody in armor. And I was not only explain Samus but the characters around her… with Super Metroid I showed, through her relationship with the baby Metroid, some of her maternal instincts. Between those two stories I feel I was able to explain Samus as a person. But because Metroid equals Samus, I’d like to develop her character further, as a soldier, as a human, also as a woman. That’s what they’re hoping to do with Other M.” ________________________________________________
The above is the most ridiculous quote I have ever seen any game developer make
The above is the most overblown Maelstrom quote I have seen since Maelstrom's last post.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 31, 2010, 06:11:21 AM
I don't care about Samus as a character, learning more about the Chozo is nice though (the real star of Metroid is always the environment and the exploration thereof, Samus is just an armored thing that jumps and shoots when we press the buttons).
Unless she is in Zero Suit or Bikini mode, in which case she is so very much more. :)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on January 31, 2010, 06:37:47 AM
I don't care about Samus as a character, learning more about the Chozo is nice though (the real star of Metroid is always the environment and the exploration thereof, Samus is just an armored thing that jumps and shoots when we press the buttons).
Unless she is in Zero Suit or Bikini mode, in which case she is so very much more. :)
Bikini mode is fine but wrapped into a horrible game, Zero Suit can go to hell along with all the other forced stealth sequences in games.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on January 31, 2010, 08:55:39 PM
What if Zero Suit mode got rid of the stealth and added the famous Team Ninja boob physics?
This could increase Samus' fanbase by 90%.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kairon on January 31, 2010, 09:54:53 PM
What if Zero Suit mode got rid of the stealth and added the famous Team Ninja boob physics?
This could increase Samus' fanbase by 90%.
Oh yay. Samus could be the next Joanna Dark. That's exactly what we need.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on January 31, 2010, 11:25:10 PM
Have to get those new fanboys somehow.
Hell, even Steve Tilley (Sun Media's resident 'game' 'reviewer') thinks Metroid and Team Ninja is a good match.
Guess he's still depress Mario Bros. Wii wasn't real enough for him.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on January 31, 2010, 11:48:39 PM
I don't understand the rampant boycotting of character development for Samus. This isn't Mario--there's a continuous story here.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on February 01, 2010, 01:28:36 AM
Was it you Halbred that wrote about wanting to see the series flesh out Samus's past, specifically the training of her by the Chozo? Because that's exactly what I want to see. Just like Link, I think a Metroid game that focused on young Samus would be at the very least incredibly interesting.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on February 01, 2010, 04:39:39 AM
I don't understand the rampant boycotting of character development for Samus. This isn't Mario--there's a continuous story here.
When I want continuous story I play a linear game, when I want to come, see and conquer I play Metroid. Metroid to me is about being set loose in a world with no instructions beyond "kill the big bad at the end" and finding my way, learning the environment and making the world mine as I get used to the territory and enemies and find more gear.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on February 01, 2010, 05:10:39 AM
I don't understand why it can't be both.
You could integrate both really simply by having Samus uncover an unknown world, looking for her lost abilities, and every time she gains a crucial ability she can be transported through a flashback or whatever to the days where she first learned how to use it. So she finds the ability to screw attack and a flashback happens that lets you play out a training exercise given to you by the chozo where you had to collect pieces of something while never once landing or falling. In that time you could drop hints here and there about why the chozo became extinct.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on February 01, 2010, 05:33:22 AM
I don't know if the Chozo will be factoring in very much with this particular game, since most of what they've shown is from urban settings, possibly within Federation territory. Her years growing up amongst the Chozo defined her role as defender of the galaxy and placed her destiny in opposition to the Space Pirates and numerous other evils...
But then again, there's also the murky period between her graduation from Chozo training and becoming the Federation bounty hunter we know and play. There's a lot to be mined here, and from what I've seen so far, I'm willing to accept some intrusive story as long as we get those awesome action sequences up our collective wazoo.
Look, it could be worse, it could be MGS4 the 80-hour-long cutscene.
I don't think we have to worry about Zero Dignity Samus, considering Itagaki isn't running Team Ninja.
I'll be honest, I've always seen Samus as a cold, proud, admirable warrior goddess with little concern for mortal affairs; this is mostly due to a lack of characterization (and perhaps a desire to separate her from her feminine contemporaries). The ramifications of Fusion and Other M are quite alarming to me, but I can see what the designer's getting at in making Samus more approachable; rather than simply being a faceless cipher or idol, she can empirically represent a story or identity.
There's more to her than we could have ever imagined when we first blew into that NES cartridge; Samus is growing up, and if you really love her, if you want to hold on to her, you will have to get to know her. Maybe your relationship with her will change, maybe it won't, but one thing is for certain: the official site's piano theme tugs my heartstrings.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on February 01, 2010, 12:05:25 PM
You could integrate both really simply by having Samus uncover an unknown world, looking for her lost abilities, and every time she gains a crucial ability she can be transported through a flashback or whatever to the days where she first learned how to use it. So she finds the ability to screw attack and a flashback happens that lets you play out a training exercise given to you by the chozo where you had to collect pieces of something while never once landing or falling. In that time you could drop hints here and there about why the chozo became extinct.
They COULD do it that way (though I could imagine the flashbacks getting annoying) but they already stated they're going to take the Fusion route.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on February 01, 2010, 12:37:37 PM
Depending on how difficult the modes are (Team Ninja is notorious for high difficulty in their games), and how the game flows, it might last about as long as a Metroid 2-D game. Two to three hours if you blitz through it (and know what you are doing).
This is just a guess though.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on February 01, 2010, 01:57:15 PM
Looking at those screenshots for the first time in months I was caught off guard. They look worse than Metroid Prime on the Gamecube. I think Retro has just spoiled us. They're so exceptional they make everyone else look bad. Other M still looks FINE, it's just not as great as it could be.
I liked Metroid Fusion, though not as much as Super Metroid. But I liked Metroid Fusion a lot and thought it was a really great sequel. The fact that is wasn't just More Super Metroid appealed to me. I like sequels that try to provide a similar but different experience. I consider that a perfect Nintendo sequel. It's like how Pikmin 2 isn't about collecting spaceship parts on a time limit. It's a very different sequel but is still incredibly enjoyable and still feels like Pikmin. Both games are different and are both essential. Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion are the same way, you HAVE to play both as neither game will provide the same experience as they other. Zero Mission on the other hand, while REALLY awesome, is not offering you much more than Super Metroid did.
But I can understand the concerns people have. I know why some Metroid fans don't like Fusion. It's much more linear. For me it's not that bad but I can see how someone would see that as un-Metroid. If they switched it into actual levels like a Mario game then that would be too much for me but as it is it still feels Metroid enough for me.
Emphasis on storyline in a videogame can be dangerous because there is a tendency for such focus to hurt the gameplay. It's funny that people always bring up Metal Gear Solid because I find the gameplay for that still remains fun. My beef with it is often the story is PISS POOR and sometimes just outright BORING. If you were telling a story that isn't stupid than the Metal Gear Solid approach would be fine. My real concern with this is that the story is going to SUCK. That's usually the problem.
Metroid Prime is like the absolute best example of a great story told in a way that doesn't affect the gameplay at all. I wonder if Team Ninja realizes the hard act they have to follow.
Just as long as the game is fun to play and I get to explore a strange new world and it doesn't cross the "this no longer feels like Metroid" line it'll be great.
Though over time I have to come to realize that many of the things we loved about classic games probably only existed because of the restrictions involved at the time. When a creator is give complete freedom he often lets his ambitions take over. Regardless of how Other M turns out it may very well be exactly what Sakamoto wanted to do with the NES game but couldn't.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on February 01, 2010, 03:03:37 PM
Wasn't Yokoi the main mind behind Metroid, not Sakamoto?
Anyway, for me one of the core elements of the Metroid experience is dealing with the world, deciding on routes, exploring and following my own goals (even if the game is designed to nudge me toward the intended goal). Shadow Complex did that very well, Fusion and Prime 3 didn't. The world is the star for me and the background of Metroid I'd want to explore is the world of the Chozo (how they really lived), not the personality of Samus Aran.
Besides, the Metroid Fusion story was pretty much just an Alien Resurrection ripoff.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on February 01, 2010, 03:31:11 PM
It lacked a half-cloned Samus in a tube whispering "kill me..."
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on February 01, 2010, 05:40:19 PM
Quote
Wasn't Yokoi the main mind behind Metroid, not Sakamoto?
Technically, yes. Yokoi however only made the basic concept. Sakamoto was the main man behind the first three Metroid games. Kind of like Miyamoto and Tezuka.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on February 02, 2010, 11:51:54 AM
I don't understand the rampant boycotting of character development for Samus. This isn't Mario--there's a continuous story here.
The fear is justified because Nintendo and Sakamoto have sucked hugely regarding story and character development. The best thing about Samus as a character is that her story was practically unknown. Everything they have added has tarnished that, and isn't even that original or interesting (revenge because of her dead parents is the most overused plot), and even her suitless design has gone downhill.
I'm excited/concerned as well about Other M.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on February 02, 2010, 12:41:06 PM
Having played the two Metroid GBA games, these are the flaws which Nintendo/Sakamoto should clearly avoid:
Fusion: Way too much story, too much hand holding. Zero Mission: Hand holding again, though toned down. Forced stealth mission. No Power Bombs in main game (Sakamoto, wtf).
Though, maybe the hand holding was made to attract the expanded audience...?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on February 02, 2010, 01:01:09 PM
I could accept PBs being after the stealth sequence if it wasn't easer to get to the final boss wiothout the PBs than getting them.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on February 02, 2010, 01:33:55 PM
Looking at those screenshots for the first time in months I was caught off guard. They look worse than Metroid Prime on the Gamecube. I think Retro has just spoiled us. They're so exceptional they make everyone else look bad. Other M still looks FINE, it's just not as great as it could be.
They don't in any way look worse than the first MP. Keep in mind that it's a completely different game format, and a blatantly different art style.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on February 02, 2010, 04:01:03 PM
I don't understand the rampant boycotting of character development for Samus. This isn't Mario--there's a continuous story here.
The fear is justified because Nintendo and Sakamoto have sucked hugely regarding story and character development. The best thing about Samus as a character is that her story was practically unknown. Everything they have added has tarnished that, and isn't even that original or interesting (revenge because of her dead parents is the most overused plot), and even her suitless design has gone downhill.
It's been a while since I've seen it, but I remember that Nintendo Power Super Metroid comic being fairly good and it was pretty narrative-based.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on February 02, 2010, 04:42:16 PM
The manga is surprisingly good, too, and VERY narrative-heavy, as are mangas generally.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on February 02, 2010, 04:44:58 PM
Quote
They don't in any way look worse than the first MP. Keep in mind that it's a completely different game format, and a blatantly different art style.
I don't see them as different art styles. They're both Metroid. This isn't like Wind Waker and Twilight Princess here.
Samus just seems very undetailed in those screenshots. The lighting and shading isn't as nice as in Metroid Prime. Samus' suit looks like it's made up of two colours. Look at http://www.mobygames.com/game/gamecube/metroid-prime/screenshots/gameShotId,33788/ (http://www.mobygames.com/game/gamecube/metroid-prime/screenshots/gameShotId,33788/) and it's the same suit but with the lighting and the different shades it looks more like it's really there. I'm looking at these shots, which I haven't seen in years, and I'm blown away by how much better they look. Metroid Prime's graphics look great even by today's standards.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 02, 2010, 08:40:00 PM
Looking at those screenshots for the first time in months I was caught off guard. They look worse than Metroid Prime on the Gamecube. I think Retro has just spoiled us. They're so exceptional they make everyone else look bad. Other M still looks FINE, it's just not as great as it could be.
They don't in any way look worse than the first MP. Keep in mind that it's a completely different game format, and a blatantly different art style.
I agree. This new art style might be a bit less realistic, and I think that's what Ian is trying to say. Metroid Prime certainly does have a more realistic style to it. But this game is more like a graphic novel type art style to it, and its a given that this sort of style will be less realistic, but its still cool and not in any way inferior.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on February 04, 2010, 11:13:52 AM
It's been a while since I've seen it, but I remember that Nintendo Power Super Metroid comic being fairly good and it was pretty narrative-based.
I remember that, but we are talking here about awesome 80s/90s Nintendo, not this new Nintendo that thinks a badass space hunter would use a ponytail with a red ribbon.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on February 04, 2010, 11:31:18 AM
I agree. This new art style might be a bit less realistic, and I think that's what Ian is trying to say. Metroid Prime certainly does have a more realistic style to it. But this game is more like a graphic novel type art style to it, and its a given that this sort of style will be less realistic, but its still cool and not in any way inferior.
I think realism goes better with Metroid. It's inspired by a live action movie, not a book or comic.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on February 24, 2010, 04:14:44 PM
Word on the street (http://kotaku.com/5479442/new-metroid-other-m-screens-story-details-excitement) is that Other M is controlled via the Wii remote held sideways.
Quote
Featuring a control scheme that uses Wii Remote-only controls (held sideways) for side-scrolling adventure and battle moments, with pointer control for first-person exploration and shooting, Other M certainly sounds like a fine compromise for the longtime Metroid fan.
Does this mean that first-person segments won't involve any moving on the player's part?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: dack25 on February 24, 2010, 04:29:19 PM
The control scheme makes me think it's going to play like Shadow Complex, which might not be a bad thing even though that was a $10-15 game and I'd expect this to have more content. Is it safe to say that the 2.5D games are going to get played out soon?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 24, 2010, 04:41:34 PM
I would feel more comfortable about the sideways remote control setup if the remote actually had the same number of buttons as at least an SNES controller, but sadly it doesn't. I want a game that plays like Super Metroid; not the original Metroid.
If they're going to do this then they should make it use the CC controller instead, and if necessary bundle a CC with the game ala Wii Play. Doing that would also beef up sales for sure.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 24, 2010, 04:46:22 PM
Word on the street (http://kotaku.com/5479442/new-metroid-other-m-screens-story-details-excitement) is that Other M is controlled via the Wii remote held sideways.
Quote
Featuring a control scheme that uses Wii Remote-only controls (held sideways) for side-scrolling adventure and battle moments, with pointer control for first-person exploration and shooting, Other M certainly sounds like a fine compromise for the longtime Metroid fan.
Does this mean that first-person segments won't involve any moving on the player's part?
METROID ON RAILS!!! Ohhh Noooo!!!!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 24, 2010, 04:48:15 PM
God, I hate on-rails. I wish it would die off already..
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on February 24, 2010, 05:01:57 PM
It might just shift perspective in certain areas. In one room you might be running toward the camera, in another you're running away from it, in another it's sidescrolling, etc...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on February 24, 2010, 05:08:50 PM
I would feel more comfortable about the sideways remote control setup if the remote actually had the same number of buttons as at least an SNES controller, but sadly it doesn't. I want a game that plays like Super Metroid; not the original Metroid.
If they're going to do this then they should make it use the CC controller instead, and if necessary bundle a CC with the game ala Wii Play. Doing that would also beef up sales for sure.
Don't forget the B and A buttons. Granted, they are more difficult to press while moving but the B trigger at least could be hit more easily while playing. + and - could also be used.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on February 24, 2010, 05:44:55 PM
HOLD B TO STRAFE *FAIL*
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on February 24, 2010, 05:46:34 PM
It might just shift perspective in certain areas. In one room you might be running toward the camera, in another you're running away from it, in another it's sidescrolling, etc...
Seems like kind of a waste then. Just make a 2.5D game and spare us the random perspective shifts.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on February 24, 2010, 05:50:53 PM
Well, games like Knights of the Old Republic and Shadows of the Empire had random perspective shifts depending on what was happening. Specifically there were points where you were flying in a ship and took control of the guns to blast enemy ships. So couldn't Samus be doing something similar?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 24, 2010, 05:56:39 PM
I would feel more comfortable about the sideways remote control setup if the remote actually had the same number of buttons as at least an SNES controller, but sadly it doesn't. I want a game that plays like Super Metroid; not the original Metroid.
If they're going to do this then they should make it use the CC controller instead, and if necessary bundle a CC with the game ala Wii Play. Doing that would also beef up sales for sure.
Don't forget the B and A buttons. Granted, they are more difficult to press while moving but the B trigger at least could be hit more easily while playing. + and - could also be used.
+ and - always seem to fill in for start and select, and they aren't very easy to access in heated gameplay, so no help there. As you said the A and B are also there, but not very easy to access during heated play. So basically, you're stuck with the 1 and 2 as your main buttons and those are tiny. Why oh why didn't Nintendo make these buttons bigger and toss in a 3 and 4 button as well??
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on February 24, 2010, 06:00:34 PM
Graphics seem to have improved a bit.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on February 24, 2010, 06:10:18 PM
I still don't like the screenshots for this game. It just looks generic and shovelware-esque. Retro set the bar so high that this looks cheap and lazy in comparison.
Regarding the description about the first person stuff, I don't know. That certainly gives me cause to be concerned. But then there's been an uncertain nagging feeling about this game since it was announced. The problem is we're coming off Metroid Prime which was absolutely awesome and there was really no need to do any sort of Metroid 3D reboot. I was content with Retro making something new for the Wii and then busting out Metroid Prime 4 for the Wii 2. And I wanted Nintendo to continue making 2D Metroids, which they have slacked off on.
The whole premise has this vibe that Retro was fucking stuff up and that THIS is a return to "true" Metroid. The only problem is Metroid Prime was true Metroid. Only the most close-minded bigot thought overwise. This whole thing is kind of like Nintendo addressing a problem that never existed. You look at this and Metroid Prime Hunters and you get this feeling that despite what we think Nintendo wants Metroid to be something else and for someone else. FPS jackasses complained about Metroid Prime not playing like Halo so Nintendo made a shitty Metroid FPS and that is so far the DS' Metroid game, like it or leave it. This seems to be the answer to Japan's disinterest in the series. I don't see why Nintendo can't make Metroid for Metroid fans.
However I remain very interested in this game. I really hope it turns out awesome. But I also would not be shocked at all if it didn't.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on February 24, 2010, 06:32:08 PM
I hope there are other control options besides the Wii Remote on its side, I don't like games which force that control style as I find it to be a bit uncomfortable. There's absolutely no reason that an option to use the Nunchuk shouldn't be included in such type games, as everyone has at least one Nunchuk. Super Paper Mario especially bugged me with the sideways Wii Remote, as the game could have actually benefited from an analogue stick.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on February 24, 2010, 06:34:35 PM
I hope there are other control options besides the Wii Remote on its side, I don't like games which force that control style as I find it to be a bit uncomfortable. There's absolutely no reason that an option to use the Nunchuk shouldn't be included in such type games, as everyone has at least one Nunchuk. Super Paper Mario especially bugged me with the sideways Wii Remote, as the game could have actually benefited from an analogue stick.
Plus ignoring CC and CC Pro support is rather frustrating for me.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on February 24, 2010, 06:39:42 PM
Well, I think that goes the same for not including support for the GameCube controller (which I see no reason why any game that supports the Classic Controller can't do the same for the GCN controller). It's extra effort to program in support for that controller that not everyone has, but everyone has a Nunchuk and that's why I feel it should take priority as an alternate control scheme (if not as the primary control type).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on February 24, 2010, 06:50:49 PM
Quote
Plus ignoring CC and CC Pro support is rather frustrating for me.
I suspect Nintendo does it on purpose to dissuade the classic controller's use. They made all this big talk about the remote being the new standard but then observed that any time they made a game that supported the CC, everyone used the CC because it was always superior. Ooops. That doesn't make Nintendo look good. The sideways remote method lets them act as if you're playing a game that "could not be done on any other console but the Wii". A game like this if it doesn't require the remote might as well have been done on the Gamecube since the visuals show no significant improvement. Do you want to give your customers the impression that they bought a new console just to have the same experience their old console provided them? Obviously not so they make a game that needs three buttons and map the third button to a shake or add some pointer mini-game and voila.
I think Nintendo also likes the comparison of the sideways remote to the NES controller. It has a "going back to basics" marketing spin to it.
Sidescrolling games don't usually need analog control so I'm not too worried. I'm just concerned about the position shift I'll have to do to move from NES mode to point mode. If I get killed because I'm expected to suddenly hold my controller differently I'm going to be pissed. That **** got old six months into the DS's life and should never EVER show up these days.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on February 24, 2010, 07:56:36 PM
I still don't like the screenshots for this game. It just looks generic and shovelware-esque. Retro set the bar so high that this looks cheap and lazy in comparison.
Can someone dig up those S&P2 screen shots that show both pre-release and final build so Ian shuts his pie hole?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Spinnzilla on February 24, 2010, 08:14:33 PM
can anybody confirm this for me?
Quote from: metroid database
UPDATE: Looks like players will be able to freely switch between first-person and third-person mode, allowing for easy targeting of enemies and smooth exploration. The Twitter #OtherM (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23OtherM) feed is also alight with comments, so check them out. Chances are, whatever new news occurs will happen there first!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on February 24, 2010, 10:49:24 PM
I have my doubts about the control scheme, 2D control hold sideways doesn't mix well with first person aiming in action games, for something like super paper mario it was ok, but I don't see how intuitive or easy it would be to clean a room full of enemies. I guess we need videos of this.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 24, 2010, 11:47:31 PM
Seems a bit silly to question the game's visuals, Team Ninja, if anything is extremely talented when it comes to visual talent.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on February 25, 2010, 02:04:43 AM
I just read IGN's impressions and I am completely sold. They make it sound absolutely amazing! I am super hyped and can't wait to hear Samus's non brawl voice.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kairon on February 25, 2010, 02:12:27 AM
Seems a bit silly to question the game's visuals, Team Ninja, if anything is extremely talented when it comes to visual talent.
Actually, it might be EXACTLY Team Ninja as the reason for the visuals. Apparently, if you look closely at all their games, even the HD ones, they tend to be glossy and shiny rather than grungy or dirty.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 25, 2010, 02:13:31 AM
From the hands on the game sounds fantastic and an evolution of the series. Sounds like the visuals are great as well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on February 25, 2010, 05:02:25 AM
Samus monologing? Ugh..
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on February 25, 2010, 06:13:36 AM
Http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=115449
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on February 25, 2010, 12:38:33 PM
I just read IGN's impressions and I am completely sold.
I trust IGN as far as I can throw them. Does NWR or any other RESPECTABLE Nintendo fan site have impressions yet?
Has Jennifer Hale been confirmed to be Samus' VA yet? I might be able to stand since I <3 Jennifer Hale's VAing. (if anyone can make Cinderella bas-assed, it's her. SERIOUSLY, I'M NOT KIDDING.)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: stevey on February 25, 2010, 01:42:28 PM
Nintendo and voice acting should never, ever, EVER be used in the same sentence nevertheless a game be it a Zelda, Mario, or Metroid.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on February 25, 2010, 01:59:58 PM
But Metroid Prime 3 used voice acting and I found it good. other games are iffy, but...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on February 25, 2010, 02:16:57 PM
The problem with voice-acting and cutscenes is that Nintendo doesn't usually consider that sort of stuff a priority. So they suck at it and they don't spend much money on it. Nintendo's voice acting comes across as the staff's friends and families volunteering their time. A good voice actor costs money and Nintendo are cheapskates so they don't usually get it right.
It's the same problem that plagued Wii Music's soundtrack. Nintendo doesn't usually spend money on music licencing so we got tons of public domain and Nintendo owned music.
Certain presentation elements in videogames cost money and if Nintendo isn't willing to spend the money to do them well they should not even bother.
Samus monologing makes it sound like this is going to be one of THOSE games where I really enjoy the gameplay but roll my eyes any time the story pops its head in. I swear my friends and I made videos for school projects in high school that had more coherent plots and better writing than 90% of videogame stories (and all we did was steal jokes from The Simpsons). Does gaming naturally attract hack writers on the basis of "if you were any good you would be writing for movies or TV"? There are a tons of complete **** movies and TV shows out there so if you're writing for videogames is the logical conclusion that you are worse than the absolute WORST screenwriters?
Who's worse? Videogame writers or pro wrestling writers? Tricky question, eh? ;)
Back to Metroid there have been some impressions that indicate that Samus' abilities are unlocked based on a superior officer giving the order for her to be allowed to use them. I hope that's just at the beginning of the game. Finding new abilities is like the whole point of Metroid. Having the game just turn them on for you at select points would be so lame.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 25, 2010, 02:55:07 PM
I like when Nintendo tries mix things up and try to innovate people complain, but they also complain when they do the exact same gameplay over and over again. They just cannot win. Metroid: Other M has potentially to be a really innovative and GUTSY game, let's give it a change OK? Heck already it sounds fantastic (besides some of the voice acting complaints, then again so what? Bad voice acting does not ruin a game, as seen by the FF series or even Tales series). Nintendo is obviously trying to do here what they did with Eternal Darkness, work with another company to get a fresh perspective on how to do things. Team Ninja IS a talented company as seen by the 3D Ninja Gaiden games, and with the creator of Super Metroid at the helm, it deserves to be given a chance.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on February 25, 2010, 04:10:39 PM
The Eternal Darkness analogue is really good, GP. I never would've thought of that. You can also bring up Twin Snakes as another example. Hell, Retro Studios made Metroid Prime through a similar arrangement.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 25, 2010, 04:30:23 PM
You are right Halbred, Metroid Prime was worked on with the help of Miyamoto. Nintendo has for the most part gotten the best out of developers they work closely with (I do not mean those instances where they just handed a franchise off to a developer and said "Go for it!"), Metroid Prime, and Eternal Darkness being their biggest examples. Even Geist, while it appears Nintendo had some influence, still is a quality albit flawed title.
Now if Team Ninja was handed Metroid and Nintendo wasn't working that closely with them, I'd be worried but as it is, I'm not because Nintendo has an amazing track record for co-projects. They seem to have an eye for getting the best out of a developer in that arrangement, even possibly changing them for the best (retro) or at the very least maximize the unique talents of a developer while providing guidance (Silicon Knights).
Team Ninja has had signs of brilliance, especially with their 3D Ninja Gaiden things. I expect Nintendo to get the most out of them as well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on February 25, 2010, 04:35:26 PM
I like when Nintendo tries mix things up and try to innovate people complain, but they also complain when they do the exact same gameplay over and over again. They just cannot win.
Totally agree with this. I don't understand why some people think Nintendo's franchises should never undergo gameplay or stylistic changes. Those types of changes are very, very often completely awesome and amazing. See Ocarina of Time and, ahem, Metroid Prime. As much as people complain about Nintendo franchises becoming stagnant and repetitive, Nintendo has to be given a lot of credit for the amount of changes they've made to many of their franchises, given the even louder bellyaching that comes with that. You only have to look at the reception of Star Fox Command, which I thought was an incredibly interesting and unique game, to see what I mean.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on February 25, 2010, 05:00:58 PM
Quote
I like when Nintendo tries mix things up and try to innovate people complain, but they also complain when they do the exact same gameplay over and over again. They just cannot win.
I don't think it's necessarily the same people complaining about both situations. And change is not universally good, it is only potentially good. Metroid remains highly praised as the series has innovated but has also maintained a high quality. Star Fox has changed a lot as well but the changes SUCKED so Star Fox has lost its prestige.
Neither Super Mario Sunshine or Super Mario Galaxy are cookie cutter sequels to Super Mario 64 and yet one is almost unamiously praised while with the other opinions are split. Both tried new ideas with Mario but I say the basic sum-up is that the waterpack was a lame idea and the planets was a good one.
I think a balance of fear and excitement is a normal reaction to an innovative sequel. Hell, I'd argue if this reaction doesn't occur then Nintendo isn't making a very interesting sequel. You're excited to see what the end result can be but are afraid that they'll **** it up. And sometimes even the most talented companies miss the point and turn a beloved franchise into junk. Hate to pick on Star Fox but there's an example of Nintendo fucking it up.
I personally don't have the same trust of Nintendo as I did in the past. Their interest in non-gamers and their insistence on forcing poor controls down our throats for the purposes of marketing to said non-gamers has created a situation where NO Nintendo game is a sure thing for me anymore. Except ironically with a cookie cutter sequel like Super Mario Galaxy 2 which I know will be decent because the first game was. They've become inconsistent, at least regarding my own personal tastes.
If Nintendo has set out to make a great Metroid game then there is no worry. But if Nintendo has set out to make a Metroid game that is successful with the Japanese market that has not traditionally embraced Metroid then there is worry. The difference in approach can make or break the game and this gen we know Nintendo will go in with a purely market-driven attitude.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on February 25, 2010, 05:33:23 PM
The graphics have that Team Ninja plastic-y look to them. Not a fan of that look, but it's not going to make me not have fun with this game.
The problem with voice-acting and cutscenes is that Nintendo doesn't usually consider that sort of stuff a priority. So they suck at it....
Dude, Charles Martinet. You lose this argument. Please punch yourself.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on February 25, 2010, 06:22:12 PM
Quote
Dude, Charles Martinet. You lose this argument. Please punch yourself.
I wasn't even thinking of Martinet when I said that but thinking of him now... I'll punch HIM instead of myself for turning Mario into fucking Ronald McDonald. Mario went from being a age-neutral videogame character to a kiddy character the second Charles gave him that stupid voice.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on February 25, 2010, 06:30:15 PM
You fail. Please see yourself out.
Mario has universal appeal. He's more popular now than he's ever been.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 25, 2010, 06:33:24 PM
I agree with Ian. Charles Martinet makes Mario sound like Mickey Mouse. They should have used a proper Italian with a proper Italian accent. Instead we get Mickey Mouse, and it sucks.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on February 25, 2010, 07:38:10 PM
You make Mickey Mouse seem like a bad thing to aspire to be like.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 25, 2010, 07:42:27 PM
NoE Press Assets for M:OM (http://picasaweb.google.com/GoldMetalSonicMS2010/MetroidOtherMWii)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on February 25, 2010, 10:46:41 PM
After reading impressions and seeing screenshots, Giant boobs Samus, the terrible voice acting and one liners are making me cringe, but the gameplay intrigues me and can't wait to try it, I'm not against new things, but it's sad we had to get that crappy generic anime look in the process of reinventing the franchise, in my perfect utopian world Nintendo would take the gameplay and let a western developer do the story and character design.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on February 25, 2010, 11:00:11 PM
I really really hope I end up enjoying the story, but I just can't see Samus acting (or even looking) like this.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kairon on February 25, 2010, 11:19:05 PM
I agree with Ian. Charles Martinet makes Mario sound like Mickey Mouse. They should have used a proper Italian with a proper Italian accent. Instead we get Mickey Mouse, and it sucks.
So... Captain Lou Albano?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 26, 2010, 01:38:08 AM
I agree with Ian. Charles Martinet makes Mario sound like Mickey Mouse. They should have used a proper Italian with a proper Italian accent. Instead we get Mickey Mouse, and it sucks.
So... Captain Lou Albano?
That would be fine, except that unfortunately Captain Lou Albano passed away recently.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Nemo on February 26, 2010, 01:48:41 AM
After reading impressions and seeing screenshots, Giant boobs Samus, the terrible voice acting and one liners are making me cringe
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Bikini
As you can see above, Nintendo has always given her pretty sizable breasts.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on February 26, 2010, 02:31:01 AM
The reason game stories suck is because game developers think stories are easy to make and put completely unqualified people on the job. In this case the story is Sakamoto's idea and while he may be a good gameplay designer he clearly has no talent as a writer. That's where the lack of Miyamoto shows, he takes a sledgehammer to story and it's likely warranted if the writers are hacks.
As for the graphics, the picture with Samus and the marines looks like 90s CG, too smooth and shiny. Crappy.
Items unlocked by an officer are the worst possible idea for Metroid. One important aspect of Samus that is communicated through gameplay is that she's independent. There's nobody to help you on Zebes, you do all that by yourself. You decide what to do and how to do it and even if the level design subtly nudges you towards the intended progression you do it because that's what the physical situation requires. Being ordered around with mission goals was already bad in Prime 3 but Fusion was WAY worse with most of your constraints being artificial instead of a natural result of the situation. Instead of doors you lacked the tools to open you got "I'm afraid I can't do that Dave" doors. Now you'll run into physical situations you could solve if you weren't tethered to some idiot denying you the ability (and who wants to bet that we'll have another Fusionesque "you won't get item X because you might interfere with our secret evil plan"?).
Remote sideways makes me wonder how the hell you can fire missiles. Hitting select to switch between guns and missiles is terrible and since the GBA games improved that there should no longer be a need for switching back and forth. Or will missiles be restricted to FPS view?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on February 26, 2010, 03:04:29 AM
I can't believe someone actually complained about the voice of Mario. Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi couldn't have more fitting voice work.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 03:17:04 AM
I can't believe someone actually complained about the voice of Mario. Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi couldn't have more fitting voice work.
I agree Mop_it_up the first time I heard Mario in Mario 64 I thought it was PERFECT.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on February 26, 2010, 03:36:33 AM
It's too bad that Nintendo's too stubborn to borrow ideas from anyone, because I really wonder if they could have followed a similar model for suit upgrades that Batman: Arkham Asylum does. Batman being a somewhat Metroid-inspired game with plenty of secrets and an emphasis on backtracking and exploration, it makes for a good comparison. Samus enters the staging area, is told by the Federation CO that her suit functions are too dangerous for the situation at hand and must be left behind. As the game goes on, Samus has to do...something...in the environment to trigger the ability to call for upgrade drops from her ship up in orbit. Or perhaps she could find objects in the environment and MacGuiver herself something that her suit could use in place of her usual equipment. But this is Nintendo, and they always do what's "unique" regardless of "what works best."
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on February 26, 2010, 03:41:46 AM
Again, I think you're getting ahead of yourself bud.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 26, 2010, 06:16:41 AM
I can't believe someone actually complained about the voice of Mario. Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi couldn't have more fitting voice work.
Well, to be fair, Ian tends to complain about anything and everything Nintendo does (or doesn't) do. However, on this I have to agree with his complaint because Mario is supposed to be Italian, therefore it would make sense to have him voiced by someone with an Italian accent. Joe Mantegna, anyone?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on February 26, 2010, 06:44:40 AM
I think a common complaint is that Mario doesn't even need a voice, those bleeps and bloops in the 8 and 16 bit games were enough.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 26, 2010, 07:31:06 AM
I can't believe someone actually complained about the voice of Mario. Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi couldn't have more fitting voice work.
Well, to be fair, Ian tends to complain about anything and everything Nintendo does (or doesn't) do. However, on this I have to agree with his complaint because Mario is supposed to be Italian, therefore it would make sense to have him voiced by someone with an Italian accent. Joe Mantegna, anyone?
Where in any of Mario's games does it say he's supposed to be Italian? I think that's just an assumption based on Mario being an Italian name (due to his namesake being Italian) and him looking stereotypically Italian.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Spinnzilla on February 26, 2010, 10:18:46 AM
Kind of weird how this thread developed into a bitch about mario's conversation.
But I think we're putting too much pressure on the voice acting. Some the best games out there have some the worst VA and dialogue...Resident Evil.
Also, I think its refreshing not having to track down most of your powers even though it's a metroid staple.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on February 26, 2010, 11:38:02 AM
After reading impressions and seeing screenshots, Giant boobs Samus, the terrible voice acting and one liners are making me cringe
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Bikini
As you can see above, Nintendo has always given her pretty sizable breasts.
It is possible that many of us overrated the character and for Nintendo she has always been there to appeal to the male crowd in the way Lara Croft does, however this images appear only for 10 seconds if you become an expert on the game, now we have to see them over and over through the whole game, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's again a zero suit mission.
Its not only the breasts really, but the fact that they are attached to someone who looks like a 12 year old. That generic anime look that Team Ninja always use is horrible, and in no ways portrays what a bounty hunter that has experienced a lot would look like.
And yeah this conversation about Mario is dumb his voice is perfect.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 12:35:05 PM
When you wear a super powered suit, it doesn't matter what you look like inside of it. Samus could be 2 ft tall and 500lbs and the suit would still make her an awesome bounty hunter. Besides Nintendo screwed up the character design and look long before Team Ninja did it. You think Zero Suit samus looks like a grizzled bounty hunter? Yeah right. Probably the only instance where she looked that way is Super Metroid at the end.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 26, 2010, 12:37:55 PM
Yes, but that would also mean there's absolutely no reason to ever get out of the suit while on a mission. I'd agree with that, but it doesn't seem like Nintendo does.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 12:42:03 PM
Yes, but that would also mean there's absolutely no reason to ever get out of the suit while on a mission. I'd agree with that, but it doesn't seem like Nintendo does.
Well the fact is that Nintendo messed her human design (something I've mentioned before) way before Other M.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on February 26, 2010, 12:45:33 PM
I've been looking around at a bunch of sites, has anyone seen any gameplay footage of this yet?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 12:57:38 PM
I've been looking around at a bunch of sites, has anyone seen any gameplay footage of this yet?
My guess is that they were not allowed to take any footage because it was behind closed doors OR it is under embargo.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 26, 2010, 01:00:25 PM
I think the director/man in charge for Metroid is speaking at GDC so that is probably when the public reveal for the game will happen.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on February 26, 2010, 01:07:51 PM
Samus Aran had largish breasts in Brawl and her bikini pixel art in Metroid, Metroid 2, and (one might argue) Super Metroid. I'm not understanding where we're getting "giant boob Samus" for this game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 01:13:33 PM
Samus Aran had largish breasts in Brawl and her bikini pixel art in Metroid, Metroid 2, and (one might argue) Super Metroid. I'm not understanding where we're getting "giant boob Samus" for this game.
It is because people don't like Team Ninja and see what they want to see. Forgetting that the guy who was really into that stuff is gone from Team Ninja.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on February 26, 2010, 02:08:12 PM
Quote
The reason game stories suck is because game developers think stories are easy to make and put completely unqualified people on the job. In this case the story is Sakamoto's idea and while he may be a good gameplay designer he clearly has no talent as a writer. That's where the lack of Miyamoto shows, he takes a sledgehammer to story and it's likely warranted if the writers are hacks.
I think Miyamoto takes it a little too far but overall I think he has the right idea. In a videogame I think the story really just needs to be an overall problem in need of solving. "Here is the situation, you the player must solve the problem!" That then goes with a setting and a world for the user to experience as he goes about solving the problem. Depending on the game this might include NPCs, dungeons, villages, etc. or it might just be levels and enemies. Then the player creates the story for himself within the setting and to solve the problem (that might change as the game progresses). My only beef with Miyamoto is that's lazy and re-uses the same problem and setting over and over again. Bowser kidnaps the Princess. Fuckin' played, buddy.
Stepping outside this barebones set-up is dangerous territory. Your weakness in story-telling can be exposed. You risk making characters the player doesn't like and that's the character the player is playing as. If I enjoy shooting everything that moves, a cutscene where the main character laments killing everyone would seem out of place. As would the reverse situation. A good game lets the player feel what he wishes based on the scenario. You go all story nuts and you're TELLING the player how he's supposed to feel.
Regarding Samus' design, I don't like the graphics much but Samus herself looks fine to me, she just has this shiny look everything has that I don't care for. Samus has always been a hot piece of ass. The big shock at the end of the first game is actually pretty juvenile. "Hey it turns out that badass you were playing the whole time is a girl... that you would like to ****! And she's going to strip down to reward you for doing so well!" Samus is the videogame equivalent of the bikini babe waiting for you at the finish line when you win the race.
And though I don't like Mario's voice I regret voicing my opinion on it in this thread. Let's keep it on Metroid.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 26, 2010, 02:40:31 PM
Samus has always been a hot piece of ass. The big shock at the end of the first game is actually pretty juvenile. "Hey it turns out that badass you were playing the whole time is a girl... that you would like to ****! And she's going to strip down to reward you for doing so well!" Samus is the videogame equivalent of the bikini babe waiting for you at the finish line when you win the race.
Exactly, this is why all the complaints about Samus are beyond stupid since she's always been this way. I mean seriously people, how is this
I can't believe someone actually complained about the voice of Mario. Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi couldn't have more fitting voice work.
Well, to be fair, Ian tends to complain about anything and everything Nintendo does (or doesn't) do. However, on this I have to agree with his complaint because Mario is supposed to be Italian, therefore it would make sense to have him voiced by someone with an Italian accent. Joe Mantegna, anyone?
Where in any of Mario's games does it say he's supposed to be Italian? I think that's just an assumption based on Mario being an Italian name (due to his namesake being Italian) and him looking stereotypically Italian.
Luigi is also an Italian name. No other nationality would refer to their enemies as "Goombas" or "Koopas". I think that's how you know they're Italian, even if it was never outright mentioned. And it may never have been mentioned in the games, but I think in the cartoon show it was.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 26, 2010, 04:02:27 PM
She would be wider than she is tall, if that were the case. She wouldn't even fit in the power suit, lol.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on February 26, 2010, 04:46:03 PM
The only problem I have with Samus's design is her childish face and short hair. I mean...da ****?
But that is the least of my concerns. I just can't really imagine her monologing. I mean, I guess if you were alone, exploring a vast planet that at some point you would talk to yourself, but still...I always liked how she was cold and emotionless...what a hardened bounty would be.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 04:53:04 PM
The only problem I have with Samus's design is her childish face and short hair. I mean...da ****?
But that is the least of my concerns. I just can't really imagine her monologing. I mean, I guess if you were alone, exploring a vast planet that at some point you would talk to yourself, but still...I always liked how she was cold and emotionless...what a hardened bounty would be.
Samus was never emotionless as shown in Metroid 2 and Super Metroid, that is something fans of the games integrated into her character, not Nintendo.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on February 26, 2010, 04:58:53 PM
She cared for one thing kinda, while blasting everything else....how is that not emotionless?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 05:01:42 PM
She cared for one thing kinda, while blasting everything else....how is that not emotionless?
Everything else were hideous monsters, I'd blast them too and I'm not emotionless. Might as well say Mario has no emotion either, he kills everything in his path. Kirby eats them. Fox shoots down alien planes like nothing. The fact that she had a strong bond with a jellyfish proves she is an emotionally deep character.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on February 26, 2010, 05:04:16 PM
Yeah but Mario is doing it for his woman. Kirby is doing it because it's a glutton. And Fox is doing it because he doesn't want to follow in his father's footsteps.
Samus on the other hand is doing it to get paid. Doing anything to get paid = emotionless.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 05:06:20 PM
Yeah but Mario is doing it for his woman. Kirby is doing it because it's a glutton. And Fox is doing it because he doesn't want to follow in his father's footsteps.
Samus on the other hand is doing it to get paid. Doing anything to get paid = emotionless.
I would disagree with that. She was paid to destroy all Metroids but let one live. Also like I said they are flipping monsters, I wouldn't hesitate to blow away some hideous bug. She gets the job done, it doesn't mean she isn't an emotional person, just like any soldier. Not to mention the objectives tended to be for something that would have sweeping consequences for the Galaxy if she failed. Every mission Samus has been on has had purpose and meaning. Also Mario's big fat butt gets paid too in coins, doesn't mean that is his only motivation!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 26, 2010, 05:09:17 PM
She might LUV her job.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on February 26, 2010, 05:39:09 PM
Other M shares the same shiny, plastic look as Team Ninja's Ninja Gaiden games. Really, nothing new from them on that front. I would have preferred if they went with something closer to Zero Mission's art style minus Samus' ridiculous helmet hair. Honestly, I preferred Fusion's art style, but Zero Mission has a more stylized look that lends itself better to this kind of game.
I can't believe someone actually complained about the voice of Mario. Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi couldn't have more fitting voice work.
I agree Mop_it_up the first time I heard Mario in Mario 64 I thought it was PERFECT.
Respect knuckles for both of you. I was beginning to lose faith in humanity when someone said that agreed with Ian about Charles Martinet's voice work in the Mario series. As much as I like the cheesiness of the old Mario cartoons, I can't imagine Mario and co. sounding any different.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on February 26, 2010, 05:39:45 PM
Does this game play like Ninja Gaiden?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on February 26, 2010, 05:42:49 PM
Samus is emotionless only in the context of good videogame storytelling. In the original Metroid there was nothing hitting you over the head telling you how Samus felt. Therefore Samus' feelings were YOUR feelings. If you were emotionless she was emotionless but if you were scared, excited or bloodthirsty then she was those things as well. It was just a problem (Mother Brain has the Metroids!) and a setting (Zebes) and you lived the story.
Personally I never have had any emotional attachment to any of the enemies in Metroid as they always trying to kill me. Odds are most players felt that so they associated Samus as emotionless. When I play a videogame with human enemies though I do sometimes have pity for my enemy (ie: these poor security guards are just doing their job) but Samus never faces enemies like this. The first time Nintendo very specifically told us what Samus was feeling it was when she spared the Metroid baby.
And I agree with GP in that Samus has never had a mission where there was any morally ambiguity. It has always been clear good vs. evil stuff. I think people just associate a bounty hunter with someone like Boba Fett and then assume Samus is like a mercenary.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 05:49:29 PM
Ian does bring up a good point, like most of Nintendo's characters, Samus's was more of an avatar for the player. But as time has been went on she has been more fleshed out, something quite unique for a primary protagonist in a Nintendo game. They still haven't really done it with Link, Mario, or Kirby. The enemies in Metroid have always been quite interesting, in that they are supposed to be sentient and intelligent (at least the Space Pirates) but little of it is shown and you do not have any emotional issue killing them. Personally I find it more emotional to kill an enemy in a Mario game, they actually have some personality at times.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Guitar Smasher on February 26, 2010, 05:56:48 PM
I don't mean to exacerbate the Mario voice issue, but could you really imagine Super Mario Bros with "woohoos" and "it's a me" every time Mario jumped? Back then the character actually looked like an adult male plumber, now he's just a cartoon (which the voice fits).
About Samus: I always imagined her as being around 30 years old, maybe even a little older. Now that she looks 18, she looks totally inexperienced and not like someone you'd hire to go on a solo bounty hunter mission.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on February 26, 2010, 05:58:38 PM
I'd hire her to hunt my bounty
paper towels, so that I wouldn't have to go to the store.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 05:59:15 PM
I don't mean to exacerbate the Mario voice issue, but could you really imagine Super Mario Bros with "woohoos" and "it's a me" every time Mario jumped? Back then the character actually looked like an adult male plumber, now he's just a cartoon (which the voice fits).
About Samus: I always imagined her as being around 30 years old, maybe even a little older. Now that she looks 18, she looks totally inexperienced and not like someone you'd hire to go on a solo bounty hunter mission.
Have you seen her in Metroid 1? Or Zero Mission? Yeah but really when you wear a super powered, one of a kind suit you will get the job no matter what you may look like. While I have NOT liked the sexualization of Samus in the series, there is nothing wrong with her being attractive and youthful, in fact it adds a unique twist to everything.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on February 26, 2010, 06:03:05 PM
When I play a videogame with human enemies though I do sometimes have pity for my enemy (ie: these poor security guards are just doing their job) but Samus never faces enemies like this. The first time Nintendo very specifically told us what Samus was feeling it was when she spared the Metroid baby.
At the same time, Samus didn't really have any emotional attachment to the Metroid. She just bottled it up and and gave it to some scientists. Then, she was told to get it back because Ridley was being a dick again.
If anything, I'd say Fusion's prologue gave Samus a sliver of emotion when she said something about the Metroid saving her life twice. Then, towards the end of the game she yells at Adam. As far as I know, that's the extent of it.
About Samus: I always imagined her as being around 30 years old, maybe even a little older. Now that she looks 18, she looks totally inexperienced and not like someone you'd hire to go on a solo bounty hunter mission.
I remember reading somewhere that in Metroid 1, she's supposed to be like 22. Couldn't tell you where I read that and I'm too lazy to google it...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on February 26, 2010, 06:05:33 PM
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About Samus: I always imagined her as being around 30 years old, maybe even a little older. Now that she looks 18, she looks totally inexperienced and not like someone you'd hire to go on a solo bounty hunter mission.
This I'll agree with. She looks a little too fragile for her line of work.
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The enemies in Metroid have always been quite interesting, in that they are supposed to be sentient and intelligent (at least the Space Pirates) but little of it is shown and you do not have any emotional issue killing them.
Makes you wonder what the species that makes up the space pirate are like. Is pirating their culture or are their peaceful members of the same species living somewhere just trying to support their family in an honest way? But that's actually the sort of mystery that I know will be more interesting in the imagination of the fans. Having everything revealed is not always fun.
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Personally I find it more emotional to kill an enemy in a Mario game, they actually have some personality at times.
Fuckin' Paper Mario introduced good guy Koopas and Goombas and such. It's never been the same for me since. But then we've killed Bowser tons of times and he keeps coming back so maybe Mario is like a cartoon where you can blow people up and squash them with anvils and they just shake it off. Bowser's taken the Crocomire bath and he keeps on tickin'.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Guitar Smasher on February 26, 2010, 06:11:11 PM
I don't mean to exacerbate the Mario voice issue, but could you really imagine Super Mario Bros with "woohoos" and "it's a me" every time Mario jumped? Back then the character actually looked like an adult male plumber, now he's just a cartoon (which the voice fits).
About Samus: I always imagined her as being around 30 years old, maybe even a little older. Now that she looks 18, she looks totally inexperienced and not like someone you'd hire to go on a solo bounty hunter mission.
Have you seen her in Metroid 1? Or Zero Mission? Yeah but really when you wear a super powered, one of a kind suit you will get the job no matter what you may look like. While I have NOT liked the sexualization of Samus in the series, there is nothing wrong with her being attractive and youthful, in fact it adds a unique twist to everything.
Heh, I was playing Metroid 1 last week.
And the comment doesn't apply just to Other M. She seems to be getting younger with each game, at least to me. Of course in the older games we don't have obvious visual clues, so my imagination had to fill in the holes. For me it was easiest to imagine a woman who's experienced enough to do the job. An 18 year old rookie just seems unlikely to me, even with the power suit compensating.
I'm curious why you think her attractive/youthful appearance is a unique twist? It's pretty common in games these days, or do you mean that it's more of what you wouldn't expect?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Guitar Smasher on February 26, 2010, 06:16:45 PM
I remember reading somewhere that in Metroid 1, she's supposed to be like 22. Couldn't tell you where I read that and I'm too lazy to google it...
I'll be honest, I don't always read the text in video games. If it's not pertinent to advancing my progression, then I often just skip it.
Oddly enough, I paid a lot of attention to the story in Prime 1. Maybe because it felt like a small surprise each time I found a scannable object?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 06:22:36 PM
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At the same time, Samus didn't really have any emotional attachment to the Metroid. She just bottled it up and and gave it to some scientists. Then, she was told to get it back because Ridley was being a dick again.
We don't know what happened in between saving it and when it was given to the scientists. I think the fact that the creator of SM is giving her emotional attachment to it should mean something.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on February 26, 2010, 06:28:14 PM
The creator's intention and the audience's interpretation are 2 different things. It took 8 years for Sakamoto to address it. One must wonder if that was retconned considering Super Metroid could have easily been the last of the series. The last Metroid is in captivity. The galaxy is at peace. Then, Samus f*cks everyone up and destroys the planet. The end.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 06:34:39 PM
The creator's intention and the audience's interpretation are 2 different things. It took 8 years for Sakamoto to address it. One must wonder if that was retconned considering Super Metroid could have easily been the last of the series. The last Metroid is in captivity. The galaxy is at peace. Then, Samus f*cks everyone up and destroys the planet. The end.
To retcon wouldn't you need something to retcon?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on February 26, 2010, 06:43:54 PM
Adding emotional attachment to the Metroid in Fusion when previously there was none constitutes a retcon in my book considering that changes how you view the end of Metroid II and the events of Super Metroid. I always saw Super Metroid as strictly a mission. Get the baby Metroid back from the Space Pirates. The addition of an attachment, possibly maternal, to the Metroid or what have you changes Samus' motivation and characterization.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on February 26, 2010, 07:06:11 PM
Samus has looked her oldest (and best) at the end of Prime 1. At the end of Prime 2, she looked like a freakin' teenager.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 07:07:09 PM
Adding emotional attachment to the Metroid in Fusion when previously there was none constitutes a retcon in my book considering that changes how you view the end of Metroid II and the events of Super Metroid. I always saw Super Metroid as strictly a mission. Get the baby Metroid back from the Space Pirates. The addition of an attachment, possibly maternal, to the Metroid or what have you changes Samus' motivation and characterization.
I never viewed the Metroid/Samus relationship as that, so once again it is a matter of personal opinion, nothing to do with retconning, I always seen the two having a bond. When she let it live in Metroid 2 mother strongly suggested a bond since she did not kill it like she was supposed to. It showed an emotional reaction, especially since she backed out of completing her mission to save its life, showing some kind of bond to the creature.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 07:09:18 PM
Adding emotional attachment to the Metroid in Fusion when previously there was none constitutes a retcon in my book considering that changes how you view the end of Metroid II and the events of Super Metroid. I always saw Super Metroid as strictly a mission. Get the baby Metroid back from the Space Pirates. The addition of an attachment, possibly maternal, to the Metroid or what have you changes Samus' motivation and characterization.
I never viewed the Metroid/Samus relationship as that, so once again it is a matter of personal opinion, nothing to do with retconning, I always seen the two having a bond. When she let it live in Metroid 2 mother strongly suggested a bond since she did not kill it like she was supposed to. It showed an emotional reaction, especially since it was because the Metroid was treating her like its mother.
She has her own Lazarus pool!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on February 26, 2010, 08:18:32 PM
I always preferred Fusion Samus, with her free flowing hair and tasteful attire. One has to remember that she is also infused with Chozo blood, so she most likely has a number of superhuman traits. (Post-Fusion, she is also part Metroid!)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on February 26, 2010, 08:37:30 PM
I never viewed the Metroid/Samus relationship as that, so once again it is a matter of personal opinion, nothing to do with retconning, I always seen the two having a bond. When she let it live in Metroid 2 mother strongly suggested a bond since she did not kill it like she was supposed to. It showed an emotional reaction, especially since she backed out of completing her mission to save its life, showing some kind of bond to the creature.
It's not an opinion. In Super Metroid, she specifically says that she gave the Metroid larva to scientists so they "could study its energy producing qualities." Nothing about that suggests an emotional bond Samus might have for the Metroid. In fact, it flat out states the exact opposite. She didn't kill the Metroid larva so it could be studied. I suppose you could argue that she gained an emotional attachment to the Metroid after it saved her from Mother Brain (which incidentally was after it almost killed Samus). Then again, Samus doesn't grieve its demise. She kills Mother Brain, escapes Zebes and goes about her business. Only in Fusion does she quasi-show gratitude by stating that the Metroid saved her life twice, but that's a retcon by addition. It doesn't contradict previously established facts, rather it fills in background information to support new plot points.
As much as I like Fusion, it's one giant series retcon (so are the Prime games). Those cloned Metroids popping up towards the end of the game kind of messes with the whole "the last Metroid is in captivity" line from Super Metroid because clearly that wasn't true at all.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on February 26, 2010, 08:46:06 PM
Based on the fact that this conversation is even taking place, and the fact that Samus has not made her feelings about the Metroid hatchling known outright until this point, it's VERY clear that the situation was ambiguous up to this point. The fact that Samus gave the hatchling to the science federation could just be justification for her actions. You could look at it a lot of different ways. That's what makes it ambiguous.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2010, 08:56:49 PM
I never viewed the Metroid/Samus relationship as that, so once again it is a matter of personal opinion, nothing to do with retconning, I always seen the two having a bond. When she let it live in Metroid 2 mother strongly suggested a bond since she did not kill it like she was supposed to. It showed an emotional reaction, especially since she backed out of completing her mission to save its life, showing some kind of bond to the creature.
It's not an opinion. In Super Metroid, she specifically says that she gave the Metroid larva to scientists so they "could study its energy producing qualities." Nothing about that suggests an emotional bond Samus might have for the Metroid. In fact, it flat out states the exact opposite. She didn't kill the Metroid larva so it could be studied. I suppose you could argue that she gained an emotional attachment to the Metroid after it saved her from Mother Brain (which incidentally was after it almost killed Samus). Then again, Samus doesn't grieve its demise. She kills Mother Brain, escapes Zebes and goes about her business. Only in Fusion does she quasi-show gratitude by stating that the Metroid saved her life twice, but that's a retcon by addition. It doesn't contradict previously established facts, rather it fills in background information to support new plot points.
As much as I like Fusion, it's one giant series retcon (so are the Prime games). Those cloned Metroids popping up towards the end of the game kind of messes with the whole "the last Metroid is in captivity" line from Super Metroid because clearly that wasn't true at all.
You could argue Super Metroid, retconned Metroid 2 if you want to go there then which made it quite clear she felt sympathy towards the baby hatch-ling and didn't complete her mission, which wasn't to capture one but to destroy them all. The end of Metroid 2 seemed to heavily hint at the fact she felt sorry for the creature, and chose to let it live going against her orders, indicating an emotionally based choice. Also we know nothing about Samus's demeanor in Super Metroid after the Metroid died, she had no time to grieve since the whole flipping world was about ready to blow up.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on February 26, 2010, 11:30:11 PM
Based on the fact that this conversation is even taking place, and the fact that Samus has not made her feelings about the Metroid hatchling known outright until this point, it's VERY clear that the situation was ambiguous up to this point. The fact that Samus gave the hatchling to the science federation could just be justification for her actions. You could look at it a lot of different ways. That's what makes it ambiguous.
It was ambiguous. I'm not debating that. The point of this conversation is to discuss whether or not events were contradicted and/or retconned. The creators made it a point to be ambiguous in Metroid II and leave Samus' feelings up to the players and they could have easily remained ambiguous in Super Metroid, but they made a conscious decision to offer an explanation which makes Metroid II's ending not ambiguous anymore.
You could argue Super Metroid, retconned Metroid 2 if you want to go there then which made it quite clear she felt sympathy towards the baby hatch-ling and didn't complete her mission, which wasn't to capture one but to destroy them all. The end of Metroid 2 seemed to heavily hint at the fact she felt sorry for the creature, and chose to let it live going against her orders, indicating an emotionally based choice.
I didn't say Super Metroid didn't retcon Metroid II, but if you really want to get into it, it does. The main difference being in Super Metroid, she points her arm canon at the hatchling which she does not do in Metroid II. Doesn't change much since she still tells us her motive, but that's retcon by alteration since something different happened than what was previously established however subtle it may be.
You say Metroid II made it quite clear that Samus felt sympathy toward the Metroid hatchling. Well, clearly it didn't because Super Metroid tells you her motive. I'm strictly going by what the games specifically tells us. Something is no longer left up to interpretation when you're flat out told what that something means. Again, it was left up to interpretation and now it is not. Unless you want to get into the intricacies of unreliable narrators (though we have no reason not to believe Samus) or a philosophical discussion on the nature of truth or the lack thereof, Samus' motive and feelings are made perfectly clear in Super Metroid though that's not to say Other M or another game won't just retcon that and specifically state that Samus felt sorry for the Metroid hatchling. However, as it stands, Samus did it for science.
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Also we know nothing about Samus's demeanor in Super Metroid after the Metroid died, she had no time to grieve since the whole flipping world was about ready to blow up.
Yes, exactly. The ending of Super Metroid is once again ambiguous and left completely to interpretation. That is, until Fusion where it's still ambiguous, but less so after Samus makes that comment about the hatchling saving her (which, for consistency's sake, still has no bearing on her feelings prior to being saved). She didn't grieve, but did she not grieve because there was no time or because she didn't care? In Super Metroid, we don't know. In Fusion, we know more. She cared enough to acknowledge that she owed her life twice over to the Metroid hatchling.
/long post
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Nemo on February 26, 2010, 11:56:39 PM
Ignoring whatever happens in Other M (which I can't comment on much due to not having played it), I always viewed Samus as being somewhat kind to the Metroid- saving its life in Metroid 2. Sure, she gave it to scientists, but what was she going to do - keep it and raise it herself? Of course, she'd be thankful that the metroid saved her life in Super Metroid and probably sad to see it die. But there's no time to cry when Mother Brain's trying to kill you and the planet you're on is going to explode. Also, another (optional?) sign of Samus being a caring person is that in Super Metroid she (optionally?) save the Etecoons and Dachola. Of course, Dachola and the Etecoons are still around in Metroid Fussion, so it's clear (to me at least) that you/Samus were intended to save 'em.
Even though I think Samus cares, I also think she's a practical person, focused on accomplishing the mission.
Of course, Other M could change my opinions on who Samus is...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on February 27, 2010, 01:01:43 AM
Remote sideways makes me wonder how the hell you can fire missiles. Hitting select to switch between guns and missiles is terrible and since the GBA games improved that there should no longer be a need for switching back and forth. Or will missiles be restricted to FPS view?
They're restricted to FPS view.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: stevey on February 27, 2010, 01:16:44 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFmzH52YrCk
Ug the terrible, terrible voice acting and writing. Not even Hawtness could save the game now.
(did Samus always have that mark on her face?)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ThePerm on February 27, 2010, 02:08:24 AM
no, this series has gotten too J-pop! FAIL Ze bez.... I always said Zeebz. On the other hand that allows me to make a game with a planet Zeebz
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on February 27, 2010, 04:51:16 AM
I think the voice acting is fine in the opening clip I saw. She sounds like I would expect a female Boba Fett to sound which is fitting. Sure she may be dealing with an emotional dilemma but that's not going to make her change into a super emotional person in a second. She may not ever become super emotional so keeping the voice more even and controlled like that seems to work great.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on February 27, 2010, 04:51:46 AM
AFAIK Metroid 2 had you kill about 100 metroids and then leave, as far as other metroids showing up later I don't think Samus has conclusive proof that the entire species has been eliminated (maybe the space pirates had another stash besides Zebes?). Eusocial specieses tend to have the queen suppress the reproductive abilities of the other females through pheromones, if the queen dies or is separated from the state the other females become capable of reproduction too.
Generally dashing people's imagination and replacing it with some kind of author-dictated story tends to annoy people and can alienate them from the character if they don't like what the author put in there. It's what the author wants to do but is it really better?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 27, 2010, 04:57:35 AM
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The main difference being in Super Metroid, she points her arm canon at the hatchling which she does not do in Metroid II. Doesn't change much since she still tells us her motive, but that's retcon by alteration since something different happened than what was previously established however subtle it may be.
Actually the pointing of the arm canon at the Metroid is more logical since she was told to destroy all the Metroids, the fact she didn't clearly indicates an emotional response as seen in various other forms of fiction when the protagonist spares the life of someone or something. I'd say it makes it MORE clear she felt something for the hatchling, not less. It is clear the sacrifice of the Hatchling was meant to evoke an emotional response, that should tell you everything you need to know especially since the music shifted to a more somber tone when it died until the Mother brain was defeated, until justice was dealt leading to the final escape sequence where the music picks up again. That in itself shows me that the director of Super Metroid was intending to link the player and in turn Samus to the Metroid on an emotional level.
Let's also not forget in the opening sequence the hatchling is likened to a small child. Indicating that the reasoning for giving it to be studied could be more for its safety then anything, because it would NOT be safe with her. Not to mention when Riddley takes the hatchling you are kind of on a typical rescue mission of sorts as seen in various other Nintendo games where the given motivation is to rescue someone the protagonist cares about.
Oh yeah and from the man himself (but I guess he is a big fat liar):
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"With Fusion, that game was very story-driven. In that game, I believe I was able to explain Samus as a character, as a person, not just somebody in armor. And I was not only explaining Samus but the characters around her… with Super Metroid I showed, through her relationship with the baby Metroid, some of her maternal instincts. Between those two stories I feel I was able to explain Samus as a person. But because Metroid equals Samus, I'd like to develop her character further, as a soldier, as a human, also as a woman. That's what they're hoping to do with Other M."
Taken from the Kotaku Interview with Sakamoto. Case closed, though no doubt people will say is being dishonest and that wasn't his intention, I mean we the gamers know more about what is going on then the creator right? One reason why I fell in love with Super Metroid was the subtle, yet dramatic and emotional elements woven in. It is unique even to this day.
I think the voice acting is fine in the opening clip I saw. She sounds like I would expect a female Boba Fett to sound which is fitting. Sure she may be dealing with an emotional dilemma but that's not going to make her change into a super emotional person in a second. She may not ever become super emotional so keeping the voice more even and controlled like that seems to work great.
It's not just that; it sounds like she's reading a script... poorly. The timing is all wrong. The problem is amplified later (not shown here) when she starts talking about the baby again.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on February 27, 2010, 08:00:29 AM
Case closed, though no doubt people will say is being dishonest and that wasn't his intention, I mean we the gamers know more about what is going on then the creator right? One reason why I fell in love with Super Metroid was the subtle, yet dramatic and emotional elements woven in. It is unique even to this day.
It doesn't matter what the creator intended, it matters what the player perceives.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: SixthAngel on February 27, 2010, 08:50:29 AM
I can't believe people are complaing that Samus has boobs omg. If you were going to complain about any sort or sexualizing of the series the time to complain was the Zero suit. They actually gave her a skin tight, form fitting suit. Here they just did a redesign of her and it looks heaps better than the craptastic model in corruption.
It doesn't matter what the creator intended, it matters what the player perceives.
Some players obviously perceived what the author says. I always thought Samus and the Metroid had a connection.
What the author intends does in fact matter when continuing the story though. He or she cannot write the story from what the player thinks, they can only write it from what they think.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on February 27, 2010, 12:32:16 PM
I thought the voice acting was fine.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on February 27, 2010, 02:45:19 PM
Actually the pointing of the arm canon at the Metroid is more logical since she was told to destroy all the Metroids...
Well, I'll not get into the reasons why those sequences are different since you still keep glossing over what the game flat-out tells you, opting instead to tell us what your interpretation is. Rather, you said "You could argue Super Metroid, retconned Metroid 2" and my answer is I could and I did: Super Metroid retcons Metroid II. That's not debatable.
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Let's also not forget in the opening sequence the hatchling is likened to a small child. Indicating...
Except that the Metroidhatchling is a small child seeing as it just hatched. You keep saying A indicates this or B suggests that while ignoring the fact that Samus tells you her motive.
Samus: I spared the Metroid so it could be studied. Golden Phoenix: No, bitch, you didn't. I'll tell you what you did...
Anyway, I'm curious what Sakamoto would have said in 1994 as opposed to 2009.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on February 27, 2010, 02:55:53 PM
It doesn't really say anything about this debate, but I recommend everybody check out this interview (http://metroid-database.com/index.php?g=sm&p=interview) from back then.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 27, 2010, 05:04:24 PM
Everything else were hideous monsters, I'd blast them too and I'm not emotionless.
Just because they were hideous doesn't mean they didn't have feelings. Many of the creatures she blasted were just trying to mind their own business on the world in which they were native too. It would be like someone from space coming to earth and blasting all the rhinos and elephants and buffalos with energy weapons. I mean sure, these animals are (potentially) dangerous if they feel threatened by you, but that doesn't mean you aren't a sociopath for blasting everything that moves... and that's exactly what Samus does.
How many of those creatures that she killed do you think were endangered? Some of them might even have been the very last of their species!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 27, 2010, 05:21:55 PM
Samus destroys planets and LIKES it.
Samus is emotional cuz I AM FULL OF EMOTION.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 27, 2010, 05:27:34 PM
Everything else were hideous monsters, I'd blast them too and I'm not emotionless.
Just because they were hideous doesn't mean they didn't have feelings. Many of the creatures she blasted were just trying to mind their own business on the world in which they were native too. It would be like someone from space coming to earth and blasting all the rhinos and elephants and buffalos with energy weapons. I mean sure, these animals are (potentially) dangerous if they feel threatened by you, but that doesn't mean you aren't a sociopath for blasting everything that moves... and that's exactly what Samus does.
How many of those creatures that she killed do you think were endangered? Some of them might even have been the very last of their species!
To be fair, I only shot creatures that tried to attack me, so it was self-defense. I never blasted creatures that were just standing there.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kairon on February 27, 2010, 05:54:18 PM
Voice acting not....so...bad...GAH
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on February 27, 2010, 06:45:19 PM
Honestly, I think there's probably very little really good voice acting out there, so this isn't that bad relative to the norm. I have to turn English voices off on nearly every anime I watch.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 27, 2010, 06:48:34 PM
Honestly, I think there's probably very little really good voice acting out there, so this isn't that bad relative to the norm. I have to turn English voices off on nearly every anime I watch.
Not sure what animes you watch, but most of the animes I have seen are much better with the English voices (take Dragon Ball for example. The Japanese voices are terrible, ESPECIALLY the one for Goku).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on February 27, 2010, 06:51:53 PM
Yeah. Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo were DEFINTELY better in English. Trigun was pretty good in English. Ghost in the Shell: SAC wasn't too bad, and 2nd Gig was actually pretty good.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on February 27, 2010, 07:05:40 PM
I don't watch repetitive **** like Dragon Ball. I do agree about Cowboy Bebop, and I'm working my way through some of those other ones you mentioned now. But, I noticed most of the anime you mentioned are more male character-based, and I often find the English voices worse in shows with more female characters.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on February 27, 2010, 07:46:24 PM
Shin-chan has awesome english VA work
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on February 27, 2010, 09:58:08 PM
FMA has great voice acting.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on February 27, 2010, 10:03:46 PM
Yeah. Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo were DEFINTELY better in English. Trigun was pretty good in English. Ghost in the Shell: SAC wasn't too bad, and 2nd Gig was actually pretty good.
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FMA has great voice acting.
I concur with both you, especially FMA and Cowboy Bebop. I'd also add Code Geass to the mix. There's plenty of good English Voice Acting out there, though not as much these days with anime in the states declining as it is.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on February 27, 2010, 10:19:20 PM
I am truly excited about this game. I have never really played a Metroid game, but this game seems like a good one to start out with for the first time.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dasmos on February 27, 2010, 10:51:08 PM
I am truly excited about this game. I have never really played a Metroid game, but this game seems like a good one to start out with for the first time.
Really I don't see that in this at all. I see this one as a game for long time Metroid players. Go play the original Metroid or Super Metrois first.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on February 27, 2010, 10:57:32 PM
I just download Super Metroid on virtual console and have been playing it. I just started but the game seems like it will be loads of fun, but I bet it will be challenging.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on February 27, 2010, 11:02:40 PM
DO NOT PLAY THE ORIGINAL METROID...unless you plan to hate the franchise. Super Metroid is what Metroid (NES) was supposed to be.
Super Metroid isn't terribly challenging, it's more of an exploratory game. If you can find it, Zero Mission (GBA) is an excellent follow-up and a good way to experience the original game in a good way. Once you're done with Super Metroid, I recommend Metroid Fusion.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on February 27, 2010, 11:09:44 PM
DO NOT PLAY THE ORIGINAL METROID...unless you plan to hate the franchise. Super Metroid is what Metroid (NES) was supposed to be.
Super Metroid isn't terribly challenging, it's more of an exploratory game. If you can find it, Zero Mission (GBA) is an excellent follow-up and a good way to experience the original game in a good way. Once you're done with Super Metroid, I recommend Metroid Fusion.
Is Metroid Fusion rare? I do not have anything with a GBA slot because I got rid of my DS Lite.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dasmos on February 27, 2010, 11:10:41 PM
DO NOT PLAY THE ORIGINAL METROID...unless you plan to hate the franchise. Super Metroid is what Metroid (NES) was supposed to be.
Super Metroid isn't terribly challenging, it's more of an exploratory game. If you can find it, Zero Mission (GBA) is an excellent follow-up and a good way to experience the original game in a good way. Once you're done with Super Metroid, I recommend Metroid Fusion.
Really? I still really like the original NES Metroid.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on February 27, 2010, 11:29:15 PM
DO NOT PLAY THE ORIGINAL METROID...unless you plan to hate the franchise. Super Metroid is what Metroid (NES) was supposed to be.
Super Metroid isn't terribly challenging, it's more of an exploratory game. If you can find it, Zero Mission (GBA) is an excellent follow-up and a good way to experience the original game in a good way. Once you're done with Super Metroid, I recommend Metroid Fusion.
Is Metroid Fusion rare? I do not have anything with a GBA slot because I got rid of my DS Lite.
I would't say that Fusion is rare. If you want something to play all of the handheld titles get a GBA SP. You can play Metroid 2:Return of Samus,Fusion and Zero Mission. GBASP can be pretty easy to find in Pawn shops or Retro gamestores.
Oh I played through Super Metroid for the first time since it came out about a week ago and my time was 6 hours and 3 mins with I think 98% of items. Beat it the other day with a time of 2 hours and 57 mins with 77% of items. Oh Kytim you can change what buttons do what if you feel that the defaut controls aren't to your liking.
I used the GameCube Controller with Dash set to Y,Jump set to A, B for shot and item cancel to X. I kept the Aim up and down alone. Hope you enjoy the game.:)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on February 27, 2010, 11:33:39 PM
I am using an adapter to play the game with SNES controller. I am at the beggining of the game and I just recieved the morph ball and this eye keeps shining a light on me, but I can not figure out what to do next.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on February 27, 2010, 11:42:45 PM
For now I will help you but for your next question please post in the VC Monday topic. I will say try to find a way out of the area. You can use your Morph ball to roll up into a ball to get through small passages. You press down twice on the D pad to use the morph ball. Oh another thing that I like to do is try out different things with the controls when I first play a game. Get used to the controls.Also when you get a new item try and think where the item can be used.There tends to be lots of back tracking and using items you just recieved to get into new areas.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on February 28, 2010, 05:56:38 AM
Is it considered OK to start threads about specific VC games in the Nintendo Console Board? Or do you think a thread in the Gameplay Strategy Board would be best? Or would it depend on if you wanted to just talk about the game or if you were asking for specific game help? Because wouldn't talking about all of the different VC games in the VCM thread bog the thread down?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on February 28, 2010, 06:03:14 AM
Probably would be best in the gameplay help section. I don't think we have any topics about VC games. Wiiware yes have some topics. We need a retro forum.
We should probably ask about it in that forum at the bottom of the forums.
Uh anyway I am kinda concerned about the controls for Other M but I think I need to play it first to get a feel for it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 28, 2010, 06:03:39 AM
Everything else were hideous monsters, I'd blast them too and I'm not emotionless.
Just because they were hideous doesn't mean they didn't have feelings. Many of the creatures she blasted were just trying to mind their own business on the world in which they were native too. It would be like someone from space coming to earth and blasting all the rhinos and elephants and buffalos with energy weapons. I mean sure, these animals are (potentially) dangerous if they feel threatened by you, but that doesn't mean you aren't a sociopath for blasting everything that moves... and that's exactly what Samus does.
How many of those creatures that she killed do you think were endangered? Some of them might even have been the very last of their species!
To be fair, I only shot creatures that tried to attack me, so it was self-defense. I never blasted creatures that were just standing there.
I remember in the older Metroid games there were creatures that just crawl around the walls and fly around mindlessly. They never went after you to attack you, but if you touched them then it would do damage to you. IIRC, you can't kill them with regular weapons, but when you got the freeze beam and stuff then you could really harm them. But was that right? Yeah, they could hurt you, but only if YOU touched them. They never chased after you or went out of their way to touch you, so if you touched them its because you did it.
There are other Nintendo games with questionable ethical behavior like that. For example, in the Super Mario Games you had the dumb Goombas who were kinda the same way. If you touched them, you died. But they just walked mindlessly like lemmings and didn't chase you or anything. Then there was Pikmin, which I think was the absolute worst moral atrocity of any Nintendo franchise where you have the "hero" enslaving the indigenous pikmin and forcing them to help him rebuild his spaceship, even though many of them die in the process. It doesn't seem right.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on February 28, 2010, 06:12:56 AM
But then a lot of games do similar things. Most RTS games reward people who spam units but think of all the letters getting sent home to spouses of dead soldiers in the name of destroying a small enemy base. Should we really be analyzing these things for a game? It just feels a bit silly to be discussing the morality of killing enemy creatures.
Sure some games like the Jedi Knight games could give you Light Side or Dark Side alignment because of your actions but surely we aren't going to bring that into the equation for all games? Or am I trivializing something important?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on February 28, 2010, 09:24:43 AM
Really to me it doesn't matter what the story is as long as it doesn't get into the way of the Metroid core (to me that's Veni, Vidi Vici, exploring, understanding, dominating, gaining familiarity with the environment and more abilities to better handle it). The Metroid core is not exclusive to Metroid, it's just what I buy Metroid for. To me Castlevania (SotN - DoS, I think PoR and OoE just did it wrong) is Metroid. Bunnie Must Die is Metroid. Shadow Complex is Metroid. Metroid Prime is Metroid. Metroid Fusion is NOT Metroid. Fusion is a game for people who cannot handle the Metroid core to be mislead to believe that they are playing a Metroid game. After all it has Samus, it has Metroids, it has a connected map, etc, right? That's all just window dressing around the Metroid core. Metroid Prime 3 is pretty close to not being Metroid too. I'm a bit undecided on Hunters but overall it still felt like Metroid, even if it was a fairly weak Metroid.
My real problem with Other M is that Sakamoto stated that it will be like Fusion. Fusion is not what I want when I buy Metroid. If they want to make something that's not Metroid then why do they call it Metroid? Why not make some kind of new IP that can be about whatever you want and isn't tied to 8-bit era character designs to boot? Nobody would object if this was a game about a different future girl in power armor. She could be as emo as they want her to be, nobody would expect otherwise. They could make the game into a corridor shooter with ninja moves and nobody would mind. But they called it Metroid so they better damn well deliver Metroid.
Honestly, I think there's probably very little really good voice acting out there, so this isn't that bad relative to the norm. I have to turn English voices off on nearly every anime I watch.
We aren't comparing it to shitty anime dubs, the standards for the next big game in a major franchise should be higher than those of a niche cartoon that was localized straight to DVD.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 28, 2010, 11:06:12 AM
Taking a the stance that not only is Fusion not a Metroid game, but that Hunters is, is a bold, controversial, and, some might argue, ridiculous statement.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dasmos on February 28, 2010, 09:13:33 PM
I would argue that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Morari on February 28, 2010, 09:46:04 PM
Most RTS games reward people who spam units but think of all the letters getting sent home to spouses of dead soldiers in the name of destroying a small enemy base.
Those soldiers signed up though, knowing what might happen. The Pikmin were enslaved and slaughtered by a "heroic" invader, and later for commercial exploitation.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on March 01, 2010, 12:48:57 AM
When I watch Other M's CGI movies, I detect a hint of Mass Effect. Perhaps Nintendo is trying to invoke this artistic visualization in order to capture some of the fans of the Mass Effect series to buy the game. Jennifer Hale, who voiced the female Sheppard, alos did the grunts for Samus in the Prime series. I find it strange that she did reprise her role in this game. Perhaps because of what I stated above, no doubt.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on March 02, 2010, 02:19:08 AM
Most RTS games reward people who spam units but think of all the letters getting sent home to spouses of dead soldiers in the name of destroying a small enemy base.
Those soldiers signed up though, knowing what might happen. The Pikmin were enslaved and slaughtered by a "heroic" invader, and later for commercial exploitation.
Outside of Russia sending waves of conscripts at an MG bunker without adequate equipment to break it would probably get you relieved of your command.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 02, 2010, 06:58:13 AM
Most RTS games reward people who spam units but think of all the letters getting sent home to spouses of dead soldiers in the name of destroying a small enemy base.
Those soldiers signed up though, knowing what might happen. The Pikmin were enslaved and slaughtered by a "heroic" invader, and later for commercial exploitation.
Outside of Russia sending waves of conscripts at an MG bunker without adequate equipment to break it would probably get you relieved of your command.
Its a good strategy if you consider the defenders are bound to run out of ammunition at some point. It was also how the Zulus were able to beat the British in a couple battles with nothing more than spears.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on March 02, 2010, 07:55:02 AM
A better strategy would be to go around that bunker or get some artillery.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on March 02, 2010, 02:23:58 PM
About Samus: I always imagined her as being around 30 years old, maybe even a little older. Now that she looks 18, she looks totally inexperienced and not like someone you'd hire to go on a solo bounty hunter mission.
This I'll agree with. She looks a little too fragile for her line of work.
Samus is 6'3" tall and weighs 198 lbs. She could kick your ass even without the power suit. Fragile she is not.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 02, 2010, 02:28:32 PM
Those marines must be 7'5" and 350 lbs. What do they eat at dem Federation cafeterias?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on March 02, 2010, 02:33:53 PM
The main difference being in Super Metroid, she points her arm canon at the hatchling which she does not do in Metroid II. Doesn't change much since she still tells us her motive, but that's retcon by alteration since something different happened than what was previously established however subtle it may be.
Why do you think she pointed her weapon at the Metroid? Because the sprite appeared that way? Unlike Mario or Mega Man, Samus' sprite doesn't have a "look up" animation. The only way to make it appear as if she's looking at the Metroid baby is to aim diagonally with her arm canon. It doesn't mean she's necessarily aiming at the creature. You might be reading too much into a simple technology limitation.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on March 02, 2010, 02:37:59 PM
She's friggin' 6'3"? Dayam!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Shorty McNostril on March 02, 2010, 04:13:22 PM
Wow. One of the few girls i could look eye to eye with.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on March 02, 2010, 06:37:27 PM
Why do you think she pointed her weapon at the Metroid? Because the sprite appeared that way? Unlike Mario or Mega Man, Samus' sprite doesn't have a "look up" animation. The only way to make it appear as if she's looking at the Metroid baby is to aim diagonally with her arm canon. It doesn't mean she's necessarily aiming at the creature. You might be reading too much into a simple technology limitation.
I wasn't discussing why she does that because, honestly, I don't care. Samus tells the player her motive, that's the crux of my argument relating that matter. Rather, I was simply pointing out that she does. They could have reused the old Metroid II footage, probably would have been less work too. Not only did they not do that, but they went out of their way to change what happened. Point being, it's a retcon. If you want to have a discussion on why Samus points her arm cannon at the Metroid, might I suggest directing that at Ms. GoldenPhoenix.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on March 02, 2010, 10:40:09 PM
What kind of powerups will Other Mole imbue her with? Perhaps we'll finally get to use the CT visor, and hunt dangerous abdominal aortic aneurysms.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 02, 2010, 10:55:42 PM
What kind of powerups will Other Mole imbue her with? Perhaps we'll finally get to use the CT visor, and hunt dangerous abdominal aortic aneurysms.
I was thinking "blue key card" and "email."
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on March 02, 2010, 11:07:40 PM
Hm. I thought a sentient facial growth should at least provide a telepathic link to the Space Pirate hive, any Chozo suit will probably have email built in already.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 02, 2010, 11:11:11 PM
I don't think the Chozo ever supplied the Power Suit with a keyboard.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on March 02, 2010, 11:27:33 PM
I don't think the Chozo ever supplied the Power Suit with a keyboard.
It includes a WiiSpeak ;)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 03, 2010, 01:08:57 AM
Knowing Tecmo, I'm sure there's a power-up that is only attack based and is not necessary to explore unknown areas.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kairon on March 03, 2010, 02:27:52 AM
I'm really curious about this title's unique-sounding gameplay, but the more and more I see the story aspects of this game, the cut scenes, and the team ninja character design... the more and more I dread the experience of playing, or even watching, this game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on March 03, 2010, 02:30:24 AM
The mole-ph ball puzzles will more than make up for any story deficiencies.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kairon on March 03, 2010, 02:33:53 AM
The mole-ph ball puzzles will more than make up for any story deficiencies.
I'm starting to fear that the story will not just be deficient, but that it might actually degrade my ability to enjoy the game. Like Baiten Kaitos' voice acting.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on March 03, 2010, 02:39:43 AM
The mole-ph ball puzzles will more than make up for any story deficiencies.
I'm starting to fear that the story will not just be deficient, but that it might actually degrade my ability to enjoy the game. Like Baiten Kaitos' voice acting.
I'm feeling the same, still, they have to mess it up pretty hard to make a Metroid game unbearable.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: SixthAngel on March 03, 2010, 10:52:37 AM
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on March 03, 2010, 12:08:47 PM
^win
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Nemo on March 03, 2010, 02:53:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykf_JB4kVS4
Here's a neat little video from Nintendo's Media Summit. It's an interview with someone whom I assume works at Nintendo of America. Highlights: won't be squad based (even though you'll run into those soldier guys from time to time), still will feature a strong sense of individualism and will still have plenty of alternative paths to search for.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on March 03, 2010, 03:12:03 PM
I saw this interview last week, I just don't get how people can be so down on the game. Like others have said it's like the fear of Prime all over again.
What is it that many of you want from this game or don't want? Story in the way it is presented obviously. Metroid has done true Metroid enough already, it's time for it to evolve. Either that or you guys get another Twilight Princess and your crying for the next 5 years.
I'm super excited about every thing i've seen so far. No, I don't think the acting is as great as it could be, but I hardly thinks its bad as well. But getting to know the Metroid universe is what I look forward to the most.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on March 03, 2010, 03:31:33 PM
Quote
What is it that many of you want from this game or don't want? Story in the way it is presented obviously. Metroid has done true Metroid enough already, it's time for it to evolve. Either that or you guys get another Twilight Princess and your crying for the next 5 years.
What I honestly want from Metroid is a game where there is one giant interconnected level, and I go around and find upgrades that give me special abilities that allow me to access more of the world. That's Metroid.
With Zelda I want more or less the same thing as Metroid only with the presence of non-threatening areas like towns, melee-focused combat vs. shooting, and a fantasy setting instead of a space setting. In fact both series are remarkably similar. Zelda was overhead and Metroid side-scrolling and then that switched to third person vs. first person.
The details are what make a great game or merely a good one. Twilight Princess' problem isn't that the mechanics fit the Zelda definition I gave in the above paragraph. It SHOULD follow that. The problem was that the details were too similar to the details in other Zelda games. So for Metroid I want the core definition I gave above, and hopefully the details don't suck and also are not too similar to other Metroid games.
If they don't **** up that core definition of Metroid the worst we can expect is a good-not-great game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 03, 2010, 04:22:49 PM
Either that or you guys get another Twilight Princess and your crying for the next 5 years.
Considering that Twilight Princess was a GREAT game and one of the best Zelda games ever, what is the big deal? To me, the Metroid Prime games raised the bar for the Metroid series.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 03, 2010, 04:25:45 PM
I would honestly like hella-platforming.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 03, 2010, 04:37:52 PM
Tough luck. All you're getting are big flat empty hallways to endlessly perform the same mini-cutscene moves over and over. The less you play, the more cinematickal, the more like Heavy Rain, the better the gamer press score.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on March 03, 2010, 04:41:51 PM
Either that or you guys get another Twilight Princess and your crying for the next 5 years.
Considering that Twilight Princess was a GREAT game and one of the best Zelda games ever, what is the big deal? To me, the Metroid Prime games raised the bar for the Metroid series.
Maybe I should have explained that better. I love TP, but I sure as heck don't want to see another Zelda like it. Nintendo played it too safe with that game. I mentioned that because the general word on the street is that TP was great, but too much of the same old. The way this new Metroid is heading it going to blend many new and old elements together to give us a 3rd oerson 3D Metroid that we've always wanted, wether we realize it or not.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on March 03, 2010, 08:46:13 PM
All I know is that as long as the cutscenes are skipabble I'll be happy...
Ok who am I kidding here, I'm going to watch them anyway, it's like a train wreck, it's horrible but you can't look away.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 03, 2010, 10:11:03 PM
If the gameplay is up to Metroid standards, I'm more than willing to sit through any cutscenes they put in the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on March 03, 2010, 11:50:59 PM
I am not, I expect Jennifer Hale to voice my beloved not-or-maybe-should-be-Itagaki-boobed Samus, not whoever the flying frack is voicing her now.
Again, SHE MADE CINDERELLA BADASS. That isn't possible in real world conventions, yet Hale is the voice actress who did it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 04, 2010, 12:39:03 AM
Samus is overdressed and needs to smile more since she obviously lost 100 lbs.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on March 04, 2010, 01:06:36 AM
I can't wait to sit through these cut scenes, already they look 10 times better than what Prime 3 offered. And no I don't mean content, I mean the animation of it all. The ice guy flying around looked terrible, and the movement of everything had such clunky ugly animation. At least now it looks fantastic to see someone walking around. All of you are gonna eat this story up in the end, I know it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 04, 2010, 01:48:16 AM
Whatever.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 04, 2010, 01:52:56 AM
I can't wait to sit through these cut scenes, already they look 10 times better than what Prime 3 offered. And no I don't mean content, I mean the animation of it all. The ice guy flying around looked terrible, and the movement of everything had such clunky ugly animation. At least now it looks fantastic to see someone walking around. All of you are gonna eat this story up in the end, I know it.
Yeah but these are fake. Prime at least had the decency to do with Nintendo almost always does (save for Fire Emblem) and use the in-game engine for cut-scenes.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 04, 2010, 01:55:29 AM
My fear from this game is that this is a franchise Nintendo doesn't really seem to give much of a **** about, and they are having someone else develop it. So this means this game won't necessarily receive the typically stellar level of Nintendo quality that Mario or Zelda always gets.
That doesn't mean this game WILL be bad, ir just means that there is a danger it could be. Because without Nintendo's supervision all bets are off and it depends entirely on the abilities of this developer. We were lucky with the Prime series, because Retro proved to be a capable developer, but this time around, who knows?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on March 04, 2010, 02:00:23 AM
Nintendo is co-developing this. It has more than just Nintendo's supervision.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 04, 2010, 02:03:05 AM
Chozo, I think your post would be better suited for Star Fox.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kairon on March 04, 2010, 02:04:20 AM
Team Ninja is the HUGE unknown here. Just WHAT will they do to Metroid? To Samus? To Jennifer Hale?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on March 04, 2010, 05:04:35 AM
My fear from this game is that this is a franchise Nintendo doesn't really seem to give much of a **** about, and they are having someone else develop it. So this means this game won't necessarily receive the typically stellar level of Nintendo quality that Mario or Zelda always gets.
That doesn't mean this game WILL be bad, ir just means that there is a danger it could be. Because without Nintendo's supervision all bets are off and it depends entirely on the abilities of this developer. We were lucky with the Prime series, because Retro proved to be a capable developer, but this time around, who knows?
Retro also got direct input from Miyamoto. I'm more concerned that Team Ninja holds an ego and doesn't really listen to the advise Nintendo gives. Retro was a new company, Team Ninja has been around for a while and so they may think they know things better.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on March 04, 2010, 10:38:27 AM
People talk like Sakamoto, the guy behind every non-Prime Metroid, wasn't involved. Everything from story focus to gameplay is his call. That's why I'm excited about the gameplay and terrified about the cutscenes.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on March 04, 2010, 12:39:43 PM
With Sakamoto calling the shots this will be exactly what Nintendo wants out of Metroid. If it we don't like it it will be because Sakamoto turned out to be a videogame George Lucas and his vision for Metroid turned out to be vastly different than what the fans expected.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on March 04, 2010, 02:13:43 PM
If it we don't like it it will be because Sakamoto turned out to be a videogame George Lucas and his vision for Metroid turned out to be vastly different than what the fans expected.
I think his "vision" may have changed over the years anyway. When you deal with a fictional universe for that long you get all kinds of ideas about what could happen there and might grow attached to those ideas. That's how developers keep wanting to add more story to later entries in a series.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on March 04, 2010, 06:47:37 PM
With Sakamoto calling the shots this will be exactly what Nintendo wants out of Metroid. If it we don't like it it will be because Sakamoto turned out to be a videogame George Lucas and his vision for Metroid turned out to be vastly different than what the fans expected.
More like he already is. Fusion and Zero Mission have portrayed a Samus plenty of fans do'nt like that much. I actually plain hate her and pretend she doesn't exist
With Other M it seems my avoidance will be impossible, I'll end up loving the gameplay, as I've always do, and dismissing her as a character, which is such a damn shame because she was really high in the list of characters I just loved and thought were too cool for words.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 04, 2010, 08:57:47 PM
I like when a character is given a more feminine slant, people hate. Hmmm wonder why? It is only the ones that act like guys which the average gamer (Or even movie viewer) likes. Sexism is alive and well says I!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on March 04, 2010, 09:55:39 PM
what feminine slant is there in this Samus? she's a cheap character now, acting every negative stereotype of women possible, she's now weak, immature, way too emotional, way too dependent of other people, specially men, and way too self-absorbed, those monologues are cringe worthy. And yes, I know I'm jumping to conclusions :P but the things they have decided to showcase are terrible, just terrible.
This has nothing to with the exploitation of Samus sex appeal, which is appalling, but anyway...Samus for me was in the same rank as Karan Sjet from Homeworld, a woman who ironically is actually naked in the two games, but her sexiness is never played or mentioned, at all, despite her being obviously beautiful and easy on the eyes, as it happens with pretty much any female character in video games. She's strong, determined and a great leader, and very feminine to boot, she's motherly and tender, yet she doesn't let emotions on the way of doing what's best for her people. And she's damn smart, she starts as a neurologist, how many women in videogames, or any medium for that matter, are as awesome as that? The homeworld games are never as condescending as Nintendo is being with Samus, despite many tragic events that happen in the game.
We had this image of an awesome space mercenary with a terrible past but strong enough to put it behind her and just kick ass and take names across the whole universe. She was independent, determined and known across the galaxy as the one who always got the job done. Unfortunately that is destroyed now, I guess some of us overestimated way too much the character.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 04, 2010, 10:02:24 PM
Why isn't this a CAPTAIN FALCON game instead?
"Any objections, my hero?" *Falcon Punches him out of the building* "I'll take that as a yeeeeeessssss--" *SPLAT*
"I was so awesome. Awesome and cool." *puts hand on glass, looks out window*
*entire city bursts into flames*
"FALCON: Other F(ist)"
THAT IS A GAME I CAN GET BEHIND. Get the NEW Infinity Ward to make it.
Special thanks to Infernal Monkey and Mario for re-writing the trailer and the title.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on March 04, 2010, 11:43:26 PM
Wow, mantidor. I agree for the most part.
I preferred not knowing too much about Samus, mostly because I didn't need to. What it seems like they're doing with Other M is showing Samus mature so maybe the point is that we'll see Samus grow out of all those negative stereotypes that mantidor mentioned. Well, that's great and all, but Other M's placement in the timeline is questionable so it seems like a step back in terms of character.
I suppose the problem with expanding on a series' storyline and characterization is that if you're not good at it, it shows. The only Nintendo character recently I felt drawn to enough to know more about was Midna from Twilight Princess, but even then, Nintendo's execution failed. She actually became a less interesting character. Midna was a much more entertaining character when she was mysterious, mischievous, and bitchy. Nintendo dropped the ball on her character arc and I just didn't care by the end of the game so wonder if we'll see the same in Other M.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on March 06, 2010, 05:47:28 PM
I like when a character is given a more feminine slant, people hate. Hmmm wonder why? It is only the ones that act like guys which the average gamer (Or even movie viewer) likes. Sexism is alive and well says I!
So wanting a woman to be more than what women are traditionally expected to be is sexist? That's funny, I thought it was the opposite.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 06, 2010, 09:25:14 PM
But she is more than what women are expected to be. If I remember correctly, last year's E3 trailer included footage of her with a dragon in a headlock. The complaints seem to be stemming from the fact that she also has a more feminine side, that she's not just a badass bounty hunter, and I'd concur with GP that expecting a female to have no feminine characteristics is sexist.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on March 07, 2010, 01:41:01 AM
It's more that we don't want her to be a total anime cliché.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 07, 2010, 02:49:45 AM
And I'd argue that we haven't seen nearly enough to come to any conclusions on that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 07, 2010, 04:26:48 AM
Maybe Samus should have some makeup accessories she can collect and add to her suit to increase her feminine power. Perhaps she could find Chozo statues that teach her how to cook and clean.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Armak88 on March 07, 2010, 01:44:03 PM
Cooking Mamma: Marinating Metroids
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: rbtr on March 07, 2010, 02:17:54 PM
It's more that we don't want her to be a total anime cliché.
Wasn't she already? Silent, bad-ass bounty hunter is a pretty big cliché. She was a female Boba Fett, and now she might get to be more.
The trailer looked nice, the voice acting wasn't terrible (nothing great, but not "jill sandwich" bad). Samus is one of my favorite game characters, but I didn't start to get attached until they started to, well, characterize her. I liked the stealth part of Zero Mission, and the design choices in fusion always felt like decisions to make it more hand held friendly. As for her sex appeal in SSBB, it was fan service, in a game that's all about fan service. Was is "distasteful"? Well yeah, that was the point!
I remember reading ages ago that it would be cool to put Samus in a metropolis, and then build on a feeling of anxiety. So instead of being totally alone and surrounded by nothing. You would feel totally alone and lost DESPITE being surrounded by people. Metroid, to me, has always been about that feeling of isolation, and then the joy of discovery. Samus' character hes always been second, but I like what they are doing to it. She's become more than the scantly clad reward at the end of the game! She's an actual character, and even if its not what you like I'd say its Nintendo's first real attempt at even trying to make their characters have a personality.
Furthermore the story is flashbacks. Not everyone started out awesome, it would take some time for the orphan to become the warrior.
All that said, this would make an awesome Captain Falcon game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kairon on March 07, 2010, 03:04:37 PM
Furthermore the story is flashbacks. Not everyone started out awesome, it would take some time for the orphan to become the warrior.
Really? So these story cut scenes will just be short flashback interruptions in present day Samus being awesome? Hmmm...
Generally, I'm with Mantidor on this. And KDR too, since what we've seen storywise so far is way too internal monologue, telling us her feelings instead of showing them. But of course, this is all based on so little data, and the game isn't out until June. Still, I'm just so shocked by my initial reactions that I need to voice them somehow.
Given videogame's trackrecord, I don't think a female Boba Fett is a bad place to end up.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: rbtr on March 07, 2010, 03:34:31 PM
I may be wrong about flashbacks...but I read that somewhere, but feel free to correct me.
I like Samus a lot, so I'm worried about how they treat her. But I think the way that they've been treating her is better than how they used to. Which is to say, she was simply a reward for beating the game quickly. There's an attempt at making her into something that has actual character. Nintendo is attempting to take one of their characters, and give them character. Which is something they have never really done. There's a difference between "being a character" and "having character". Character's are called characters because they usally represent a particular characteristic of the human psyche.. Link is a character, he's a brave hero, and that's it. Mario is a character, he's brave hero, a clown sometimes, but that's it. Samus was a character, a "femme fatale", but they are trying to make her more. Which is good! It means that Nintendo is NOT okay with doing the same thing over and over. They are trying new things, which they need to do, lest we end up with another twilight princess. Which was very good, but also very formulaic. And god forbid a Nintendo character get SOME development, almost every character they've made is very two dimensional, flat and lifeless. And well a puppet for the player to use. WHICH IS ALL WELL AND GOOD, but sometimes they need to try new stuff. They've got to appeal to different markets, they want to keep expanding.
tl;dr Nintendo makes lifeless charactes, and is trying to inject a character with life. They are trying something new, which means growth in the company. They are doing this to try to appeal to different audiences.
This game is in my "hopeful optimism" pile.
And it could never be the worst Metroid game, Hunters already got that one.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kairon on March 07, 2010, 04:16:33 PM
I think you've convinced me to not go jumping off any more bridges yet rbtr. Nintendo is trying something utterly alien to them, and throw Team Ninja into the mix and it's obvious that the end product will be so different to what I'm expecting from a mainline Nintendo franchise. Wow... Team Ninja... I don't know what to expect.
It means that Nintendo is NOT okay with doing the same thing over and over. They are trying new things, which they need to do, lest we end up with another twilight princess.
And it could never be the worst Metroid game, Hunters already got that one.
Poor Hunters! T_T
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 07, 2010, 05:00:03 PM
One thing I hate about old games like this getting perfect graphics and voice-acting is that it leaves less and less to the imagination. With the original Metroid (and Mario, Zelda, etc.) they were all 8-bit and pixelated so you couldn't have enough detail to handle detailed facial characteristics like eyes, noses, cheek-bones, ears, hair, moles, etc. It was jsut some blocky pixelated distortion that could have been a super-model or a hideous freak, but you couldn't tell because of the blur of pixelation. Sure, you saw Samus semi-nude at the end of the games which let you know she was actually a woman, but that was pixelated like I'm pointing out, and there was of course no voice-acting so you didn't know how she sounded.
So my gripe today is the high-rez graphics and all that leave far less to the imagination, and to me that kinda sucks because there is some appeal in not knowing. Samus' blue spandex form-fitting suit is so revealing that she almost might as well be completely nude, because you can see perfectly how her body is shaped. Inside the suit you just couldn't tell if she looked like that, or if she was some butch female space marine, or whatever.
There was a time when Samus' seemed to have a different hair-color with each game, and now its just boiled down to a predictable and overdone blond color. Princess Peach, Zelda, etc. are all also blondes. Why couldn't Samus have had another color, like red for a change? In fact, since she is an alien, she could have had green hair or something. Why did Nintendo make her into just another Barbie clone? We have too many barbie clones in the world as it is!
One of the last remaining mysteries was her voice, and it seems now we're losing that as well...
/cry
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on March 07, 2010, 09:47:06 PM
In fact, since she is an alien, she could have had green hair or something.
Samus is not an alien. She is a human, born on the Earth colony of KL-2. She may have later been infused with Chozo DNA (and then later with Metroid DNA), but she is still human. I know that if this was a anime then it wouldn't matter (since in animes it is normal for humans to have blue hair or green hair or any other weird combo).
As for her blue suit, who freaking cares? Hell, the reward for beating the first game was getting to see Samus in a bikini.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on March 08, 2010, 11:20:10 AM
I agree with Chozo Ghost, part of her appeal as a character was not knowing about her, and before it was rare to see her outside the suit. It's also the change, Samus before was more westernized, and now is more a japanese character, which I think is the thing that shocks me the most, I prefered the more westernized Samus because japanese style tends to make everyone look almost childlike for some reason, specially women, even if they are supposed to be adults, and thats honestly damn creepy.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 08, 2010, 05:04:45 PM
Look at what Nintendo has done with the Star Fox franchise. Star Fox is (or was) a cool space shooter franchise that had animal pilots, but the games didn't revolve around these animal pilots and they didn't really have much depth, so you could imagine them to be however you liked. But then in the GC era Nintendo gave us "Star Fox Adventures" and from that moment on the Star Fox franchise has never been the same. It "jumped the shark", so to speak.
That is a possible danger that could happen to the Metroid franchise as well. Once key details about a character's background are established they are basically set in stone and it is very difficult or impossible to change those things. You lose the mystery of their background, and that can never be restored. That is especially bad for the sort of game Metroid is, because it involves a lot of mystery, puzzle-solving, and exploration. How much fun will it be once you know all there is to know about the character you're playing?
So its not just about Samus' appearance and voice. Knowing her entire bio is also an issue. I remember games like Mortal Kombat had bios of the different characters saying where they were from and so forth. The characters from backgrounds we are familiar were less interesting than the characters whose bios said "Origin: Unknown" It meant there was a mystery about who they are and where they came from, so you could start to wonder and imagine. You also had the characters with the masks, and you couldn't help but wonder what was underneath that mask, or why they were wearing it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 08, 2010, 08:22:38 PM
That is a possible danger that could happen to the Metroid franchise as well. Once key details about a character's background are established they are basically set in stone and it is very difficult or impossible to change those things. You lose the mystery of their background, and that can never be restored. That is especially bad for the sort of game Metroid is, because it involves a lot of mystery, puzzle-solving, and exploration. How much fun will it be once you know all there is to know about the character you're playing?
I find the fact that you think Nintendo gives a damn about maintaining continuity amusing. Sure, they may stay somewhat consistent, but, after what they've done with Zelda, it's obvious that nothing is "set in stone" or "impossible to change."
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 08, 2010, 08:28:26 PM
Except they have said for over 20 years that every Link and Zelda is a different one (although they are in the same universe; the events of Wind Waker, for example, happen about 100 years after Ocarina of Time). They have been very careful with Metroid continuity. Most of Samus's background is unknown though, so there is not much of a chance that Metroid: Other M will contradict anything.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 08, 2010, 08:31:20 PM
Except they have said for over 20 years that every Link and Zelda is a different one (although they are in the same universe; the events of Wind Waker, for example, happen about 100 years after Ocarina of Time). They have been very careful with Metroid continuity. Most of Samus's background is unknown though, so there is not much of a chance that Metroid: Other M will contradict anything.
I'm fairly certain Nintendo at one point also said Twilight Princess took place 100 years after Ocarina of Time.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 08, 2010, 08:50:32 PM
They said it takes place "hundreds" of years after OOT (although Aonouma did not say the exact amount).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ThePerm on March 08, 2010, 09:06:49 PM
from my knowledge of the Zelda Timeline
OOT the beginning TP Decades after Oot WW 100s of years after oot alttp a thousand or more years later zelda 1 and 2 even further
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 08, 2010, 09:24:09 PM
OOT the beginning TP Decades after Oot WW 100s of years after oot alttp a thousand or more years later zelda 1 and 2 even further
But Nintendo refuses to give any kind of official timeline, and there are several different unofficial ones. Most of the ones I've seen have Zelda 1 & 2 at the beginning, though, with LTTP being at the end.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 08, 2010, 10:12:51 PM
The point is it doesn't matter....for Zelda.
Metroid has at least a decent continuity so if they feel like they want to maintain it they can (although I could care less).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 08, 2010, 10:16:09 PM
My point is, Nintendo's not going to come up with an idea they like for Metroid and then scrap it just because of continuity reasons.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 08, 2010, 10:19:42 PM
Samus will come back every 100 years, and sometimes sooner. Endless games.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ThePerm on March 08, 2010, 10:28:47 PM
Zelda follows the "just a legend idea" unless otherewise noted, Aonoma has only chronologized Twilight Princess and Windwaker that is centuries or millinea after oot. Metroid has a pretty define story, but Nintendo doesnt care about story much. Trillogy really got the story tight nit, but it wasn't popular in Japan so that doesn't matter. The game was made by Gaijin and wont sell even though its essentially just a first person zelda with a metroid theme.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on March 08, 2010, 10:34:22 PM
But Nintendo refuses to give any kind of official timeline
There have been official ones in the past, for instance on zelda.com, but they've been inconsistent and ultimately erased.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on March 08, 2010, 10:58:11 PM
I don't think this is comparable to the Zelda case, Miyamoto adamantly (and wisely) refuses any sort of focus on story, at all, in Mario or Zelda. I remember Koizumi had to sneak the storybook thing in Galaxy under Miyamoto, or he would had cut it.
If Metroid was his baby no story would touch it, thats for sure. And it's funny because RPG need story more than action games, however whatever little story is needed for Zelda comes from the gameplay design alone, and not some crazy or fan-fiction like idea in someone's head.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on March 09, 2010, 04:35:31 AM
I always understood the timeline to be
Ocarina of Time Majora's Mask Link to the Past Link's Awakening Zelda 1 and 2 Wind Waker Phantom Hourglass Spirit Tracks
I'm not sure about the others, but that was what I remember from Nintendo plus adding in obvious sequels. I recall just before Wind Waker came out NoA came up with a unified timeline where they stated that Link was the same Link in every game except Wind Waker but suffered from a 'time/dimension warp' during Majora's Mask that took him to the next game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on March 09, 2010, 01:29:49 PM
Quote
I don't think this is comparable to the Zelda case, Miyamoto adamantly (and wisely) refuses any sort of focus on story, at all, in Mario or Zelda.
He would probably allow it if it wasn't crap. Ocarina and Majora's Mask weren't heavy on story cinemas, but they handled the NPC development with style.
Koizumi also handled Link's Awakening NPC development. The characters only spoke a couple of lines, but I felt more charm from them then any character in Twilight Princess.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on March 09, 2010, 01:56:01 PM
Quote
Ocarina and Majora's Mask weren't heavy on story cinemas
:-X
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ThePerm on March 09, 2010, 05:42:03 PM
the only games place chronologically were Twilight princess and wind waker, Aonuma mentioned at a press converence or interview that Wind Waker took place several centuries or a millennium after Ocarina of time after the adult ocarina ending, and he said Twilight princess took place decades to a century after Oot. No exact dates. Miyamoto hasn't had much hands on the series since Oot, Aonuma is in charge of the series(it also means that is all they let him do now). Miyamoto will turn the table up if he thinks it sucks. I think however the big reason why Miyamoto doesn't want a set story is because he wants a future game where you make your own stories in a sort of open ended way. In fact i just came up with this awesome game idea....and a perfect name for the game.
I think Metroid should have a strong story emphasis. I remember when I was playing Super Metroid and Resident Evil 2 at the same time, and I had all sorts of ideas for what a 3d Metroid could be(i also had no idea of the limitations of the future hardware), Prime lived up to most of it, but if done correctly a metroid game could be really scary at times.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on March 09, 2010, 06:02:09 PM
Not sure how we started talking about the Zelda "timeline" in this thread.
Metroid Timeline!
Metroid/Zero Mission Metroid Prime Metroid Prime Hunters Metroid Prime 2 Metroid Prime 3 Metroid 2 Super Metroid Other M Metroid Fusion
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 09, 2010, 06:05:43 PM
Not sure how we started talking about the Zelda "timeline" in this thread.
Metroid Timeline!
Metroid/Zero Mission Metroid Prime Metroid Prime Hunters Metroid Prime 2 Metroid Prime 3 Metroid 2 Super Metroid Other M Metroid Fusion
Where does Metroid Pinball fit into this timeline?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 09, 2010, 06:09:25 PM
The Zelda discussion came from my argument that Nintendo couldn't care less about continuity and wouldn't let a story conflict stop them from doing anything.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: rbtr on March 09, 2010, 08:14:53 PM
You read that link right. Sakamoto's original idea for Other M was an on-rails shooter. Like Dead Space Extraction. Team Ninja saved the game, and Sakamoto stubbornly refuses to use any control scheme exept the Remote by itself. There is no Nunchuk. There is no Classic Controller.
This is genuinely worrying.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2010, 03:35:03 PM
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
EDITO: Sakamoto is the new Igarashi. Trying so hard to find his place in a 3D gaming industry.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Shorty McNostril on March 11, 2010, 04:33:14 PM
ALL HAIL TEAM NINJA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 11, 2010, 04:41:01 PM
That is why Sakamoto should be relegated to the role he had with the Metroid Prime games (where he was just a consultant). Maybe the game will still be fine, but some people just have a hard time keeping up with the times.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2010, 04:48:23 PM
If I have to use the pointer at any point in the game, then I better have nunchuck support. It makes no sense to have it any other way. I hope Miyamoto steps in and throws Sakamoto down onto the nearest tea table so that he can upend them both at the same time.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Shorty McNostril on March 11, 2010, 04:52:50 PM
Didn't someone say that you have no movement control when in 1st person mode? I think that is how we he will end up with his rail shooter.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on March 11, 2010, 05:00:04 PM
Right, you can only rotate around in first-person view, not move/strafe. Now that we know he was unwilling to use anything but the Wii Remote by itself, we know why.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Shorty McNostril on March 11, 2010, 05:02:07 PM
I'm afraid my enthusiasm for this game has plummeted since we saw it initially. It has so much potential, but it looks like its being baby'd down.
*Sigh*
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 11, 2010, 05:09:24 PM
As much as I am repulsed by the idea, the more I think about, a Metroid on-rails...or at least a section of the game...would actually be pretty damn cool. It could be like that beginning part of Prime 3 where your controlling your ship or the part where you fight Ridley.
I wouldn't want it to be completely on-rails, but it could have its place in the series.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on March 11, 2010, 05:38:05 PM
It seems that in order to be truly excited about this game one has to have an open mind. That's rather troubling. This is Metroid. Shouldn't it be an obvious slam dunk? I'd argue we shouldn't have to have any cause to be worried. And yet we do.
People were shitting bricks about Metroid Prime as well. Though I can't remember at what point the concern disappeared. I know initially it was like "a Metroid FPS? WTF?" But at some point I think impressions demonstrated it was going to deliver. I don't remember if that was after an E3 or if it wasn't until the reviews came in.
How trustworthy is the on-rails shooter stuff? Is it credible because it seems like the exact sort of hoax someone would make up to stir up ****. On-rail shooter is the big joke genre of the Wii. It sounds too perfect. Nothing would piss off Nintendo fans more.
If it is true it certainly isn't encouraging for anyone concerned about Metroid being too linear. Plus for me Sakamoto's involvement was what convinced me to give this game a chance. At first it just seemed like Nintendo farming off Metroid to Team Ninja, showing the amount of care Nintendo has for the Star Fox franchise. Nintendo has allowed outside groups to poison one of their franchises before, they could do it again. But the original Metroid guy was involved so it was supposed to be okay. The emphasis was that Sakamoto's team wasn't familiar with 3D graphics so Team Ninja were more of technical consultant.
If this on-rails stuff is true than Sakamoto is actually the threat to the project. Team Ninja, who are supposed to just be the code monkeys here, had to convince Sakamoto to actually make a REAL Metroid game? Not only is Sakamoto's insanity a frustration but that means that at best this could end up being Team Ninja's Metroid game. That's what I didn't want. I wanted Nintendo's Metroid game. Now Team Ninja's Metroid game seems like the lesser of two evils.
I want this to be good but if it turned out to be utter crap I would not be surprised at all. Maybe the reason this and Super Mario Galaxy 2 are coming out so close together is because Nintendo knows this is going to be ****. I figured they would space such major titles out but I assumed this would be one of the Wii's best games of the year. Maybe Nintendo knows Sakamoto has doomed the project with his stupid ideas and figures negative word-of-mouth will prevent this title from being a strong seller so SMG2 has to be out ASAP to pick up the slack.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2010, 05:57:46 PM
The thought of a 3D FPS Metroid made me think "Wow," an engrossing sci-fi 3D adventure experience; from the CG teasers, that's what I desired. I was never a big fan of Super Metroid (Mega Man X was in control of me), but I valued its puzzle/level design. The part that puzzled me was how to make 2D platforming work in first-person controls. The deal was sealed in E3 2002 when the Frigate Orpheon intro demo debuted, erasing doubts and winning awards.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 11, 2010, 05:58:16 PM
You read that link right. Sakamoto's original idea for Other M was an on-rails shooter. Like Dead Space Extraction. Team Ninja saved the game, and Sakamoto stubbornly refuses to use any control scheme exept the Remote by itself. There is no Nunchuk. There is no Classic Controller.
This is genuinely worrying.
Metroid as an On-rails shooter? Holy crap! We dodged a bullet there if that was prevented, but the fact the moron who even suggested it is still in charge of the project is very disheartening.
I've waited since 1994 for a proper Metroid game, and it looks like I will have to be waiting even longer. /cry
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 11, 2010, 06:01:41 PM
People were ****ting bricks about Metroid Prime as well. Though I can't remember at what point the concern disappeared. I know initially it was like "a Metroid FPS? WTF?" But at some point I think impressions demonstrated it was going to deliver. I don't remember if that was after an E3 or if it wasn't until the reviews came in.
I've never liked the fact the Prime games were FPS. I tolerated it because I had no choice, but its not what I wanted and I wished (and still wish) it was 3rd person. So my concern hasn't disappeared per se, its just there's no point in voicing it since the games are made and done.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 11, 2010, 06:07:18 PM
How trustworthy is the on-rails shooter stuff? Is it credible because it seems like the exact sort of hoax someone would make up to stir up ****. On-rail shooter is the big joke genre of the Wii. It sounds too perfect. Nothing would piss off Nintendo fans more.
It seems plausible when you consider Sakamoto wants the game to be playable on the Wiimote, and only on the Wiimote (no chuck). Considering the Wiimote by itself has a VERY limited selection of buttons and no analog stick, you can understand why navigating in a 3D environment is going to be very difficult (Super Mario 64 DS comes to mind), but in an on-rails shooter you don't have to mess with navigating because it is done for you.
So what I'm saying is it makes sense to me why he would want that because of the limitations of the wiimote by itself. I don't agree with it, and I'm very unhappy about it, but I can sorta see how his mind was working when he proposed that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on March 11, 2010, 06:29:24 PM
Quote
It seems plausible when you consider Sakamoto wants the game to be playable on the Wiimote, and only on the Wiimote (no chuck). Considering the Wiimote by itself has a VERY limited selection of buttons and no analog stick, you can understand why navigating in a 3D environment is going to be very difficult (Super Mario 64 DS comes to mind), but in an on-rails shooter you don't have to mess with navigating because it is done for you.
See this is what I consider poor game design. Sakamoto decides he's going to use just the remote and then has to alter his game around this seemingly arbitrary decision and in the end has to strip out the very elements of Metroid that make it appealing to the fanbase because of the restrictions imposed. What sort of stupid jackass would take this approach? I'm of the idea that your goal should be to make a great game and restrictions come about as a result of the realities of life. You're limited by your budget, the system you're working with, the targetted development time, the controller the system provides. But with an arbitrary restriction you're just risking making a **** game.
And if Sakamoto wanted to make his own embarassing **** game that's fine. But this is using a franchise where there's a fanbase that has certain expectations. Metroid is a brand name that is going to, by itself, convince some people to buy this game without even reading a review. Knowing that, to use a franchise to be all cute with arbitrary restrictions is taking advantage of those people. And that makes you a fucking asshole. If Sakamoto wants to be all arty and challenge himself in a weird way, he should do it with a new franchise where no one will be tricked into buying a Metroid game that isn't really a Metroid game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 11, 2010, 06:33:29 PM
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on March 11, 2010, 06:36:27 PM
How about you wait to play the game for yourself before condemning someone you asterisking asteriskhole
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on March 11, 2010, 06:48:18 PM
Having played Prime: Hunters, Echoes of Time, and Phantasy Star Zero on the DS, I'm actually very comfortable with the idea of moving in 3D space with a D-pad and believe it would be a viable scheme on the home console. Unlike the commonplace control stick, it has very simple, intuitive directions; its binary level of input makes gameplay feel fast-paced and less prone to error.
Just saying.
The qualms arising from Super Mario 64 DS are understandable; Super Mario 64 was built with 3D navigation in mind. However, Other M could turn out to be less 3D-oriented, like the DS games I mentioned, and thus be more suited to D-pad control.
I also find the possibility of the gameplay rhythm changing between shooter/platformer to be appealing, since they not only emphasize the primal joys of Metroid (shooting and movement), but they make them into invested choices during combat. Precision gunning juxtaposed with free movement has been an issue for 3D games, since many people have difficulty reconciling the two; by separating those factors, Other M has potential for creating a more strategic shooter experience.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on March 11, 2010, 06:52:33 PM
I disagree. Having suffered through Super Mario 64 DS, I can say with a level of certainty that a game involving movement in 3D space requires an analog stick. Can you imagine playing Super Mario Galaxy with the d-pad?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2010, 06:55:41 PM
Yes. I would directly fall into so many black holes.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on March 11, 2010, 06:56:50 PM
Quote
How about you wait to play the game for yourself before condemning someone you asterisking asteriskhole
Hey, I was giving Sakamoto the benefit of the doubt... and then we find out he was seriously planning on turning Metroid into an on-rails shooter. If that had happened how could that not be the worst Metroid game by far? That completely lacks the whole POINT of Metroid. It strips out what made a Metroid a big deal in the first place. And I would consider it somewhat unethical to intentionally make a Metroid game that is un-Metroid like when you know full well that Metroid fans will buy it entirely because of the name on the box. That would be taking advantage of people.
I'm not going to wait until I play it, I'm going to wait until reviews. This is Metroid. Metroid cleans up in reviews. It's a franchise more likely to be overrated than underrated. So I trust that reviewers aren't going to crap on it without cause. Metroid and Zelda are like the videogame equivalent of those really over-the-top drama films that manipulate the Academy into nominating them for Best Picture every year. It will take a SERIOUS dud to turn game reviewers against Metroid.
Quote
I disagree. Having suffered through Super Mario 64 DS, I can say with a level of certainty that a game involving movement in 3D space requires an analog stick. Can you imagine playing Super Mario Galaxy with the d-pad?
I think Super Mario 64 DS sucks with a d-pad because it wasn't designed for a d-pad. They took an analog stick game and tried to shoehorn it onto a system without an analog stick. But if Super Mario 64 was designed with a d-pad to begin with I think it would have been fine. A lot of PS1 games use just the d-pad for 3D and I think they control fine.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ThePerm on March 11, 2010, 07:00:01 PM
im pretty sure the game is going to be some sort of cross between super metroid and saturn Nights with fighter type special moves, if so then it should be a pretty decent control style. Nights was a 2d game with a 3d camera, and one of my favorites. If its a classic style Metroid game with that type of setup it should be worth a play.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on March 11, 2010, 07:30:20 PM
But it didn't happen... They changed it. And now you're going to rely on biased reviews that you admit
a) overrate the series b) only critique Metroid when absolutely necessary
Do you even read the words that you type?
Quote
Originally posted by Aaron Kaluszka who actually played the game: I have little doubt that this will be a great game. A lot of effort has clearly been put into the cinematics and story-telling, but the gameplay hasn't suffered. The attention to detail is impressive, and the addition of Ninja Gaiden-style action with Metroid-style exploration should be a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on March 11, 2010, 07:57:32 PM
Quote
And now you're going to rely on biased reviews that you admit
a) overrate the series b) only critique Metroid when absolutely necessary
They're biased in a direction where if they're wrong I'm stuck with a bad game. What I mean is, if this game gets like a 7, I don't want people on this forum giving me guff for not spending my money to try the game myself. If they overrate Metroid then IF Metroid gets a lousy review score you can REALLY trust that it's not worth playing. When complaints are made about biased reviews it's always a Wii game not getting enough praise. There's this attitude that everyone should try out (ie: buy) every half-baked Wii game around just in case it's good. Since Metroid is typically well liked among reviewers I can assume that if this actually gets poor reviews that I will not have to try it for myself. No one is going to intentionally crap on Metroid because they hate the Wii or whatever. Metroid is the type of game that a reviewer with a slant against non-games wants Nintendo to make more of so they won't crap on it to further their agenda or anything like that.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want any hassle about not trying this game if it gets raked over the coals in reviews.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2010, 08:06:36 PM
I need to stay out of this thread. I'm on a selective Metroid media semi-blackout and have not read the impressions or watched the (leaked) trailers. I already know i'm gonna buy the game, so there is no need for me to know everything about it before I play.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2010, 08:16:00 PM
Samus develops a romantic relationship with a young Space Pirate. The two work very hard to keep it hidden, but one of Miss Aran's Space Marine admirers discovers their secret and immediately doesn't accept it, bent on separating the pair.
Metroid: Other Marine, Other Mantis explores the deep drama and dangerous boundaries within this triad, each of whom stand on differing points of the law, duty, and passion.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/SixSidedVideo/kelli.jpg) "I DEMAND POPCORN FOR THIS FLICK"
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mac<censored> on March 11, 2010, 09:03:39 PM
If they overrate Metroid then IF Metroid gets a lousy review score you can REALLY trust that it's not worth playing.
Not true. Part of the "overrating series X" syndrome is "obsessing stupidly about random arbitrary details of series X".
If Metroid M is a great game, but happens to violate some fanboy's pedantic obsessions, he'll likely trash it in his review, despite the game's general high quality.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on March 11, 2010, 09:28:30 PM
Basically they pull an IGN reviews NSMBWii is what you are saying?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 12, 2010, 01:36:33 AM
See this is what I consider poor game design. Sakamoto decides he's going to use just the remote and then has to alter his game around this seemingly arbitrary decision and in the end has to strip out the very elements of Metroid that make it appealing to the fanbase because of the restrictions imposed. What sort of stupid jackass would take this approach? I'm of the idea that your goal should be to make a great game and restrictions come about as a result of the realities of life. You're limited by your budget, the system you're working with, the targetted development time, the controller the system provides. But with an arbitrary restriction you're just risking making a **** game.
And if Sakamoto wanted to make his own embarassing **** game that's fine. But this is using a franchise where there's a fanbase that has certain expectations. Metroid is a brand name that is going to, by itself, convince some people to buy this game without even reading a review. Knowing that, to use a franchise to be all cute with arbitrary restrictions is taking advantage of those people. And that makes you a ****ing asshole. If Sakamoto wants to be all arty and challenge himself in a weird way, he should do it with a new franchise where no one will be tricked into buying a Metroid game that isn't really a Metroid game.
I think a lot of this decision to make the game Wiimote only probably revolves around NSMB and how that game reverts back to the original NES controller setup (when you turn the wiimote on its side). That seems to be a big thing with Nintendo these days for some reason, because I guess they are trying to simplify the control of games and one of the ways you can do that is by having fewer buttons for players to be confused with.
It isn't a problem at all if you are playing a 2D side-scroller, which is what NSMB is. In that case it can play just like the NES SMB games with no problem. But when it comes to 3D gaming, I have serious doubts. We've been citing SM64 DS as an example of how a 3D game controls horribly with a D-Pad, but remember the DS has more buttons than the Wiimote does. The DS basically has the same button layout as an SNES controller, but the Wiimote is just an NES controller. So we all can see how SM64 DS sucked, but imagine that game being done without those extra buttons. It would likely suck even worse. That's a potential issue Metroid M might face with just an NES controller setup.
Of course, Metroid CAN work well with an NES controller. We know this because the original Metroid and Metroid II were done this way. But those were 2D games like NSMB. If Nintendo intended Other M to be 2D side-scroller Metroid like the originals then it should work fine, but that's not the case.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on March 12, 2010, 02:26:19 AM
What other 3D action/platform games on DS used the D-pad? I'm kind of tired of hearing about SM64DS. Surely the blue sea must yield us something that doesn't suck?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 12, 2010, 02:49:11 AM
Most of my DS games are 2D, but of the 3D ones that I've played I can't think of any that I had any problems with except Mario 64, and even then I was able to adjust.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 12, 2010, 03:02:49 AM
Jesus f*cking christ people, stop trusting articles from Kotaku. This article should be in "The PATHETIC state of the gaming media" topic for showing how once again Kotaku is the videogame media equivalent to the tabloids at the supermarket that show on the front page that Dracula and Bigfoot recently got married in Iowa.
All Sakamoto said was he originally wanted the game to be a 2D sidescroller and play like one with NES controls. Which is no surprise considering this is the guy responsible for the 2D Metroids. Team Ninja wanted the game to be 3D and so they eventually came to a compromise.
Team Ninja stepped in to work on the project and was selected because the team played off the Nintendo-based team extremely well, bouncing ideas back and forth throughout the development. Sakamoto used aspecific instance as an example: he insisted that the game would be an on-rails side-scrolling adventure that used the Wii remote exclusively like an NES/Famicom controller. But Team Ninja really wanted to make ita nunchuk-analog controlling game for 3D foreground/background exploration. Sakamoto stood firm on the Wii remote exclusivity. When the Team Ninja came up with an idea that could incorporate Sakamoto's Wii remote focus into a non-on-rails design, he was skeptical -- but when he finally saw what they came up with, he thought the solution was perfect. They called it "Famicom Game Plus."
As you can see, the guy who was responsible for the 2D Metroids, wanted to make a *gasp*, another 2D Metroid game. Not to mention a lot of Japanese designers refer to 2D games as on-rail sidescrollers all the time. Since in most 2D games your character only moves from right to left, that's considered moving on a set path, which is why when when a Japanese game designers talks about 2D games, there words can be translated as on-rails when describing what we'd just consider a 2D Platformer or 2D Action game.
So to summaries everything, stop trusting article from Kotaku :@ :@ :@
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 12, 2010, 03:07:41 AM
I was still in the "give the game a chance before you declare it a travesty" camp, but it's very comforting to have that cleared up.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on March 12, 2010, 04:54:31 AM
What other 3D action/platform games on DS used the D-pad? I'm kind of tired of hearing about SM64DS. Surely the blue sea must yield us something that doesn't suck?
The Crystal Chronicles games do, though I hate their controls. Also Avalon Code but I don't despise those controls. Maybe it is having FFCC in an isometric perspective with the D-Pad not shaped in that same direction so it feels odd to try and move directly left, right, up or down.
Rayman on the DS tried the 3D SM64DS and that failed too from what I understand. So it probably is like what was stated before where games designed for analogue fail on conversion to digital control but 3D games made with digital control in mind turn out alright.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: SixthAngel on March 12, 2010, 08:00:57 AM
So to summaries everything, stop trusting article from Kotaku :@ :@ :@
Thank you LuigiDude. Everybody needs to take a breath and relax. Thes game came from a 2d metroid game idea and was changed to 3d.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on March 12, 2010, 12:20:06 PM
The word "on-rails" is just really scary. Actually when I read IGN's interview I stll thought it said "on-rails shooter" and was "oh damn, it's confirmed." Didn't notice it said "side-scrolling" until it was bolded. I feel a lot better but I think if an on-rails shooter was Sakamoto's original idea it would make tons of sense to be concerned.
The emphasis on the NES-style controller is kind of odd since no one really likes the NES game. It's really dated and is more of classic "for its time". Super Metroid is why the Metroid series has a legendary status. If Nintendo wanted to truly provide nostalgia the Classic Controller would be the way to go. I think Nintendo gives people way too little credit with this simplifying controls stuff. Was the SNES an intimidating console? If anything Nintendo's SNES output is their peak. Games like Super Metroid and A Link to the Past are arguably more responsible for those series' ongoing popularity than the original NES games. With the first NSMB Nintendo looked at the original SMB as inspiration. Even that made no sense because when people look back fondly at classic Mario they look at the more complicated SMB3 or SMW. Nintendo is all focused on being simple but most of their franchises really hit their stride when they added complexity to the original concept.
Ocarina of Time got "BEST OF ALL TIME" level praise and a big part of that was because it was more ambitious than virtually any other game at the time.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on March 12, 2010, 01:46:49 PM
Quote
which is why when when a Japanese game designers talks about 2D games, there words can be translated as on-rails when describing what we'd just consider a 2D Platformer or 2D Action game.
The only Japanese game I can think of that was considered on-rails, but really wasn't, was NiGHTS Into Dreams.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on March 12, 2010, 04:21:23 PM
Since in most 2D games your character only moves from right to left, that's considered moving on a set path, which is why when when a Japanese game designers talks about 2D games, there words can be translated as on-rails when describing what we'd just consider a 2D Platformer or 2D Action game.
Hm, is that just a common term? Metroid is significant for NOT having you always go in one direction.
Anyway, my main concern cannot be cleared up until the game is actually on shelves because previews just cannot tell you how linear the overall progression will be.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 12, 2010, 05:05:48 PM
He means one direction as in left or right.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 12, 2010, 05:43:14 PM
Jesus f*cking christ people, stop trusting articles from Kotaku. This article should be in "The PATHETIC state of the gaming media" topic for showing how once again Kotaku is the videogame media equivalent to the tabloids at the supermarket that show on the front page that Dracula and Bigfoot recently got married in Iowa.
All Sakamoto said was he originally wanted the game to be a 2D sidescroller and play like one with NES controls. Which is no surprise considering this is the guy responsible for the 2D Metroids. Team Ninja wanted the game to be 3D and so they eventually came to a compromise.
Team Ninja stepped in to work on the project and was selected because the team played off the Nintendo-based team extremely well, bouncing ideas back and forth throughout the development. Sakamoto used aspecific instance as an example: he insisted that the game would be an on-rails side-scrolling adventure that used the Wii remote exclusively like an NES/Famicom controller. But Team Ninja really wanted to make ita nunchuk-analog controlling game for 3D foreground/background exploration. Sakamoto stood firm on the Wii remote exclusivity. When the Team Ninja came up with an idea that could incorporate Sakamoto's Wii remote focus into a non-on-rails design, he was skeptical -- but when he finally saw what they came up with, he thought the solution was perfect. They called it "Famicom Game Plus."
As you can see, the guy who was responsible for the 2D Metroids, wanted to make a *gasp*, another 2D Metroid game. Not to mention a lot of Japanese designers refer to 2D games as on-rail sidescrollers all the time. Since in most 2D games your character only moves from right to left, that's considered moving on a set path, which is why when when a Japanese game designers talks about 2D games, there words can be translated as on-rails when describing what we'd just consider a 2D Platformer or 2D Action game.
So to summaries everything, stop trusting article from Kotaku :@ :@ :@
The word "on-rails" is just really scary. Actually when I read IGN's interview I stll thought it said "on-rails shooter" and was "oh damn, it's confirmed." Didn't notice it said "side-scrolling" until it was bolded. I feel a lot better but I think if an on-rails shooter was Sakamoto's original idea it would make tons of sense to be concerned.
The emphasis on the NES-style controller is kind of odd since no one really likes the NES game. It's really dated and is more of classic "for its time". Super Metroid is why the Metroid series has a legendary status. If Nintendo wanted to truly provide nostalgia the Classic Controller would be the way to go. I think Nintendo gives people way too little credit with this simplifying controls stuff. Was the SNES an intimidating console? If anything Nintendo's SNES output is their peak. Games like Super Metroid and A Link to the Past are arguably more responsible for those series' ongoing popularity than the original NES games. With the first NSMB Nintendo looked at the original SMB as inspiration. Even that made no sense because when people look back fondly at classic Mario they look at the more complicated SMB3 or SMW. Nintendo is all focused on being simple but most of their franchises really hit their stride when they added complexity to the original concept.
Ocarina of Time got "BEST OF ALL TIME" level praise and a big part of that was because it was more ambitious than virtually any other game at the time.
Its one thing then another with you...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ThePerm on March 12, 2010, 05:51:48 PM
in this case its funny, i know that reading all this internet Info is part of marketing and pr, but knowing too much about internal info before its out causing you to avoid purchase?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 30, 2010, 05:14:49 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OrAWYvUG8N8
New Gameplay video. Shows off new areas. Seeing the game in motion makes me happy. It is what I figured the game would look like and play as well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on March 30, 2010, 05:28:54 PM
WOAH! How cool! Samus is fast again! See that speed boost? Anyone not looking forward to this should get stung by bees! And not the kind that can only sting once! The carpenter bees that can keep on stinging!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: dack25 on March 30, 2010, 05:33:05 PM
After seeing the video, I can easily say this is the most excited I've been for a game on the Wii, hell it's the most excited I've been for a Nintendo game since Twilight Princess. The game looks like it runs smoothly and it just looks exciting. I don't know if I can really put into words how great this trailer is.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on March 30, 2010, 05:37:57 PM
I don't really know you Dack, but you have good taste! About time someone shares my enthusiasm!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 30, 2010, 05:47:03 PM
Looks perfect! It's exactly what I wanted a third person metroid to be like! And it's gorgeous to boot!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on March 30, 2010, 05:52:05 PM
That trailer was awesome. I am pumped for this game!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 30, 2010, 06:05:53 PM
Was there a bunch of auto-aim going on? I don't understand how the player was able to run and gun while aiming up and down unless you are running on a 2D plane or have auto aim take care of that for you.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 30, 2010, 06:07:25 PM
You should read the impressions. They mentioned that Samus auto aims.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 30, 2010, 06:09:53 PM
1. Small enemies scattered about are targetted/hit via auto-aim -- then what worth do they have as obstacles if running in a straight line and tapping "shoot" is just a cosmetic formality? No more platforming in your combat? 2. You can't move in first person mode, yet unlike Super Metroid's X-ray mode, it's still an action phase. If this mode isn't utilized all the time, does it have any hope of providing a challenge compared to Twilight Princess' Wii Remote archery? Is "shoot the button" and shallow light-gun moments all it's good for? 3. It might be more casualized than Fusion. Not sure where the real challenge in this game is. It's being designed to attract a wider audience, after all (but if graphics are its strongest point, the "new" audience might just actually be niche).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 30, 2010, 06:11:37 PM
Was there a bunch of auto-aim going on? I don't understand how the player was able to run and gun while aiming up and down unless you are running on a 2D plane or have auto aim take care of that for you.
Your discerning eyes don't rest; most people aren't going to see past the shiny graphics at first.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 30, 2010, 06:30:40 PM
Looks like a missed opportunity for pointer or M+ controls with use of the nunchuck to me. Could have been a real 2D(classic)/3D(Prime) Metroid collaboration.
I hope they have an advanced play mode where I can attach the nunchuck, and use the pointer to shoot or maybe attach M+ and use the rotation of the controller to aim high, medium or low while run and gunning.
I will need to play this for myself, but the video, while it looks good, didn't look very challenging if all it is is button mashing while holding forward.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 30, 2010, 06:50:36 PM
I did see a moment where you get to charge your shot for a Mega Man X style blast, while the enemies stood still in front of Samus and waited to die.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 30, 2010, 07:01:26 PM
That would be your immobile turret 1st person arcade shooting gallery mode.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 30, 2010, 07:01:43 PM
I don't know how you are not impressed. Yes it may auto aim, that doesn't mean enemies are easy to kill.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 30, 2010, 07:03:39 PM
->1111111112111112112111111111111112111
"Phew, made it to the end".
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on March 30, 2010, 07:12:36 PM
Yeah, that was a great video! It looks way better in motion than it does in screens. Why is Nintendo so shitty at taking screenshots?
Quote
I will need to play this for myself, but the video, while it looks good, didn't look very challenging if all it is is button mashing while holding forward.
Part of the challenge of Metroid is figuring out where to go and what to do. Even if the combat is not that challenging IF they're sticking true to Metroid the exploration element will still make for a challenging game. I personally could live with easy enemies provided I still have to hunt around to find secret passages to get where I need to go.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 30, 2010, 07:26:13 PM
Well in Super Metroid most of the enemys were easy. There was a handful of normal enemies that were difficult. I would like a mix of easy to hard ratio to be 70 easy/30 hard as far as normal enemys go.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 30, 2010, 07:37:38 PM
but didn't you have to aim in Super Metroid?
It's not that the enemies are easy to defeat, it's that I don't even have to asim at them to hit them, I just have to face them and press 1111111 and it's done.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_Neal on March 30, 2010, 07:44:46 PM
It's not that the enemies are easy to defeat, it's that I don't even have to asim at them to hit them, I just have to face them and press 1111111 and it's done.
Isn't that what you do in Super Metroid? Face enemies and shoot? This just seems to be a 3D game meant to be played more on a 2D plane.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 30, 2010, 07:50:36 PM
I barely remember Super Metroid as I never owned nor beat the game, but didn't you aim up, down, forward and backwards to hit enemies, not just face the direction and push a button.
I don't remember Super Metroid having auto aim. I could be wrong, but I really don't remember the game having it.
Other M might end up playing great and being really really fun, but just watching the video, I'm a little less than impressed if the game does all the aiming for you out side of the FPT(FirstPersonTurret) mode.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on March 30, 2010, 07:52:08 PM
DUDE IT'S ON THE VIRTUAL CONSOLE GO BUY IT RIGHT NOW!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 30, 2010, 07:58:08 PM
So battling normal enemies is a little bit simpler than it was in Super Metroid, but it was so inconsequential in Super Metroid that being a little easier doesn't really seem like it matters. We've already seen that the boss battles involve a lot more strategy, more so than in Super Metroid.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 30, 2010, 08:05:12 PM
Wow didn't know Pro has played the whole game yet!
Seriously go back to Super Metroid, enemies are not that hard on average, it is exploring and the boss battles that were the most challenging aspect of the game. Enemies in the game, for the most part, were minor obstacles most of the time, unlike the Metroid Prime games. This game is going back to its roots, and peon enemies were never what made the original series so good.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 30, 2010, 08:15:02 PM
Wow didn't know Pro has played the whole game yet!
Seriously go back to Super Metroid, enemies are not that hard on average, it is exploring and the boss battles that were the most challenging aspect of the game. Enemies in the game, for the most part, were minor obstacles most of the time, unlike the Metroid Prime games. This game is going back to its roots, and peon enemies were never what made the original series so good.
I just came back from E3 2010. My review will be in next month's Game Informer.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on March 30, 2010, 08:18:17 PM
It's not that the enemies are easy to defeat, it's that I don't even have to asim at them to hit them, I just have to face them and press 1111111 and it's done.
The difference is that enemies can now surround you from all sides (and top and bottom) en masse. Having to target them would make it significantly harder. I suppose games like PS360 Grinder do that, but in that case, you have spread weapons.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on March 30, 2010, 08:19:45 PM
I just came back from E3 2010. My review will be in next month's Game Informer.
I take it that you've been playing the Nintendo 4DS.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 30, 2010, 08:37:18 PM
Super Metroid enemies weren't hard on average, but there was still an art to deftly defeating and maneuvering around them to make quick travel. In these old shooty platformers, the very act of pausing your footwork in front of an enemy means they were a threat worth addressing. If I may steal so, holding Right and going "1111111111111" doesn't fit this mold.
If exploration is the important part of this new game, it'd better not go overboard with painfully obvious beacons and switches for "hidden" gates. There's a noticeable difference in the way the Prime games setup their puzzly gates as systems to be dismantled (that fit the aesthetic of the environments), versus "shoot the BIG EYE" in 3D Zelda. One of the valuable parts of Super Metroid is many passages were hidden/masked in such a way that you didn't think they could be passages, opening up the world as a surprise.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 30, 2010, 09:26:39 PM
So battling normal enemies is a little bit simpler than it was in Super Metroid, but it was so inconsequential in Super Metroid that being a little easier doesn't really seem like it matters. We've already seen that the boss battles involve a lot more strategy, more so than in Super Metroid.
Exactly. Not to mention since Team Ninja is working on the game, you know the bosses are going to be very challenging as well in the hard difficulty.
Anyone that's b!tching about the auto lock on right now, better take a picture of themselves when the game comes out with a 15% completion on the hardest difficulty setting in less then 2 hours or else you have no right to complain about the game being too easy.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 30, 2010, 09:45:13 PM
it doesn't make sense to exclude nunchuck and pointers, when the game moves in a 3D environment and you use the pointer during FPT mode. But as I already said, I'm sure the controls will work fine, the game will be fun to play and I will own it anyway. I'm not making any judgements against the game itself until I play it, just pointing out design decisions that show cause for concern until we know more about it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on March 30, 2010, 11:04:48 PM
Sakamoto has this big stubbornness about simplicity, so he would not have the nunchuck anywhere, they way the game seems to be designed looks like it won't need it, so I see no problem with this.
I'm also not worried at all about a reduction in difficulty, I expect difficulty levels and maybe even some sort of super guide thing though.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 30, 2010, 11:16:50 PM
I'm not worried about the controls, one of the things that you can usually count on in main Nintendo franchises is solid controls.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on March 30, 2010, 11:34:53 PM
Was there a bunch of auto-aim going on? I don't understand how the player was able to run and gun while aiming up and down unless you are running on a 2D plane or have auto aim take care of that for you.
Your discerning eyes don't rest; most people aren't going to see past the shiny graphics at first.
The auto-aim was mentioned a while back.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 30, 2010, 11:43:35 PM
I was only looking at pics and videos, but staying away from storyline or gameplay detail/impressions since I already knew something about it was gonna not make the most sense. I'm on a Metroid Other M non-info pact with myself. I already know I'm gonna buy it and probably enjoy it, so I will just continue to stay out of this thread till E3 and a proper reveal.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 31, 2010, 12:53:02 AM
I'm not worried about the controls, one of the things that you can usually count on in main Nintendo franchises is solid controls.
Donkey Kong: Barrel Blast Kirby's Air Ride WiiSports Boxing
HAR HAR HAR
I said main Nintendo franchises, as in core games. Not spin offs or one game in a compilation pack.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on March 31, 2010, 01:17:28 AM
Solid controls in execution, but not always in layout. There should always be control options since everyone has their preference. Personally, I find the Wiimote held sideways to be uncomfortable no matter the game; this is one reason why I don't much care for Super Paper Mario.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ShyGuy on March 31, 2010, 01:34:56 AM
Samus moves like Ryu from Ninja Gaiden.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on March 31, 2010, 03:20:07 AM
Samus is lightning fast.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 31, 2010, 03:24:13 AM
I think this game after watching the trailer has skyrocketed to my most anticipated game of the year.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on March 31, 2010, 03:34:08 AM
I'm all scrolling back farther and farther going "What trailer is everyone talking about? Where's the link for it?" and finally found it on the previous page. Now I can see why it really is awesome. Looks like a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on March 31, 2010, 03:57:23 AM
You don't look at the main page?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on March 31, 2010, 04:02:28 AM
Rarely. My browser shortcut takes me directly to the forums. I do get the RSS feed on my iGoogle home page but sometimes I leave the browser open on the forums when I leave to do something. Most of the time I learn of NWR news through the forum by checking the Talkback section but that's normally at the end after I've checked all of the threads I've posted in before.
But it was more I clicked on this thread and all of the posts on this page were talking about the trailer and I was searching on this page looking for said trailer before I realized I was too far ahead in the thread.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on March 31, 2010, 04:03:29 AM
Still waiting for any information on the actual progression.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 31, 2010, 09:49:25 AM
The game looks absolutely awesome, but I think it would be a lot better to let you play with the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo. It would make the transition to 1st person part a lot easier...as well as actually controlling Samus. Oh, and the D-Pad on the Wiimote is tiny...and the 1 and 2 buttons. Seriously, I can't believe that (so far) it's not even an option. Makes absolutely no sense.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 31, 2010, 11:17:27 AM
That was my only complaint with NSMBWii. The wiimote was just too small (never even tried to see if I could play with the wiichuck) and I ended up hooking up the M+ to make it bigger and more comfortable. I even took Pro's advice and played with the WiiWheel attached so that I had something to grip.
by looks of the gameplay in this game, the wiichuck option would be ideal and more comfortable.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on March 31, 2010, 01:01:54 PM
Sounds like some people need to invest in a Classic Controller.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 31, 2010, 01:10:34 PM
Sounds like some people need to invest in a Classic Controller.
That is too small too. I'm not 12 anymore, my hands cramp when using that thing for extended periods of time. I'm hoping the CCPro works out better since it has handles to grip.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on March 31, 2010, 02:10:05 PM
Sounds like some people need to invest in a Classic Controller.
Except the Classic Controller isn't compatible with NSMB Wii or Metroid Other M, so that doesn't help much for those games.
Personally, I have no problems with the small D-Pad on the Wii Remote--in fact, I tend to use it even on games that support the Classic Controller (e.g. Cave Story, TG-16 games, etc.). But I can see how some people would want a better option and I sympathize.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Spinnzilla on March 31, 2010, 03:09:18 PM
Do we need to make wii motes 93% bigger? Iwata is asking.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on March 31, 2010, 03:39:15 PM
Was someone complaining about the enemies not doing anything? Those easy to kill flying things looked like they were bursting out at Samus and she just barely missed them as they dove in.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on March 31, 2010, 04:37:47 PM
People are giving it too much thought about how easy are the enemies when super metroid was practically the same. Except for bosses, tunnels and corridors were about monsters lined up right in front of your cannon. I wouldn't give the autoaim to much importance, if the difficulty really is affected by the autoaim they will step it up somehow, be it more monsters or monsters that break your auto aim, I don't know. All I know is that this is Team Ninja + Sakamoto in case you are forgetting, Ninja Gaiden and the 2D metroids aren't known for how easy they were.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on March 31, 2010, 06:11:54 PM
Quote
All I know is that this is Team Ninja + Sakamoto in case you are forgetting, Ninja Gaiden and the 2D metroids aren't known for how easy they were.
See this is more what I'm afraid of. To me Metroid is an exploration game. It's a brain game first, reflex game second. This is why lock-on with Metroid Prime not only didn't bother me but I preferred it. Shooting the **** out of stuff isn't the point. This is the same thing. I don't care if you just blast through the regular enemies. Metroid should not be an action game (like it shouldn't be an FPS).
I get the feeling that what I like about Metroid and what others like are quite different. For me the anticipation for this game is that I can't wait to explore the new world. With others I think the anticipation is in shooting the crap out of aliens. To me that's not really what Metroid is about and if that's what you look for, then you probably would be better suited with one of the numerous other videogames that focus on shooting the crap out of aliens. Though we will have to wait and see what this turns out to be.
If the first Metroid was just an action game it would never have created the franchise it has. Other action-focused NES games like Mega Man and Castlevania just owned it. What made Metroid special was that it was this one big world you had to navigate through. That's the big hook of Metroid. If you played it for action I argue you were wasting your time because better action titles were available.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 31, 2010, 06:37:05 PM
I can't help but agree with Ian on this. If you are concentrating on the fact that Samus auto aims, then you aren't looking at the bigger picture.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on March 31, 2010, 06:41:26 PM
I agree, however the action is still pretty spectacular. Metroid is the perfect combination of exploration and combat, is not Myst, but it isn't Contra either, and somehow marries both concepts extremely well, thats what metroid is for me. I see no indication that Other M is not going to be anything but that X 1000000, too bad about the cutscenes but the rest looks god damn awesome.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on March 31, 2010, 06:48:49 PM
Yeah, I'm a little turbulent about the cutscenes as well, but one of the best things about Metroid is how it has changed over the years.
Who knows? Maybe Samus telling her story will be exciting and interesting.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on March 31, 2010, 06:54:25 PM
I said main Nintendo franchises, as in core games. Not spin offs or one game in a compilation pack.
You mean like Metroid: Other M?
:D
How is Metroid: Other M a spin off? It's a core Metroid title. A spin off would be, like, Metroid Prime Pinball.
Also, I didn't realize that the CC didn't work with NSMBWii, sorry. I find that a tad shocking. The CC should work with every game that uses the sideways Wiimote configuration.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on March 31, 2010, 10:11:04 PM
NSMB Wii used the motion, the classic controller could have mapped it to another button but what's the fun in that?
How would that have worked though for the levels that involved tilting the controller?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on April 01, 2010, 11:35:54 AM
mapping another button and using the d-pad.
but again, what would be the fun in that?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on April 01, 2010, 12:40:20 PM
Quote
How would that have worked though for the levels that involved tilting the controller?
L & R would work well. The platforms didn't have 1:1 tilt precision. They moved between fixed points like a clock. I really wish Nintendo would make that sort of stuff an option. Why can't I just play the game with the classic controller if I want to? NSMB Wii does NOT need the remote. It's just mapping digital button presses to gestures. If people think that makes it more fun they can play it that way but let those of us who want precision controls have the option. It probably would have taken a day of coding to provide that option. Same with Warioland where shaking the controller was no different than just rapiding pushing a button and you aimed cannons in the same "fixed points" way like NSMB had.
This, having the pointer, would not be able to just map to the classic controller.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 01, 2010, 01:01:07 PM
What should have happened is Nintendo should have put 4 buttons(1, 2, X, Y) at the bottom of the Wiimote and included a Classic Controller Pro shell (with handles) that has a pass through port to add the four shoulder buttons and analog sticks.
This allows all the functionality of both with out having to dangle one from the other. You'd still be able to point out through the side like when using the WiiWheel, you'd still have all the buttons of a regular controller, you'd still have all the tilt sensoring and still be 100% wireless with nothing dangling.
maybe this is the wrong thread to talk about something like this.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ShyGuy on May 02, 2010, 02:53:05 PM
So, I'm reading the about Other M in the latest issue of Nintendo Power and it got me interested in the Metroid Timeline. This is what it seems to be according to other sites online: * Metroid: Zero Mission (Game Boy Advance) * Metroid (NES) * Metroid Prime (GameCube) / Metroid Prime Pinball (Nintendo DS) * Metroid Prime Hunters (Nintendo DS) * Metroid Prime 2: Echoes (GameCube) * Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (Nintendo Wii) * Metroid II: Return of Samus (Game Boy) * Super Metroid (Super Nintendo) * Metroid: Other M (Nintendo Wii) * Metroid Fusion (Game Boy Advance)
Is that right? Also, why does the federation create another Mother Brain in Prime 3 if Samus fought one once before?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 02, 2010, 03:11:06 PM
It should be Metroid: Zero Mission (Game Boy Advance) / Metroid (NES). They are the same game (Zero Mission is just a remake, but it adds a little bit at the end of the game after you beat Mother Brain).
That wasn't a Mother Brain in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, it was a Aurora Unit (which looks similar to Mother Brain's. Mother Brain was created by the Chozo before turning on them to join the Space Pirates, Aurora Units were created by the Federation).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ShyGuy on May 02, 2010, 05:16:10 PM
So an Aurora Unit is like a synthetic Mother Brain?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 02, 2010, 06:03:42 PM
From what i've been able to find, it's possible. The official manga indicates that the Federation may also have had a hand in creating Mother Brain, and both the Mother Brain and Aurora Units are able to access both the Chozo and Federation databases. Anything else seems to be speculation.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 03, 2010, 12:34:54 AM
Now that's out of the way, let's fix the Zelda timeline.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ShyGuy on May 03, 2010, 12:46:12 AM
Reading the preview Nintendo Power I have to say, the switching between missle mode and sideways 2D controller sounds a little iffy. I think this will be a game that teh hardcorez gaming press will love and the Ninty faithful will rank low.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on May 03, 2010, 12:45:06 PM
I think this will be a game that teh hardcorez gaming press will love and the Ninty faithful will rank low.
The gaming media, remember, is too (http://www.gamerankings.com/ps3/926596-metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-patriots/index.html) easily (http://www.gamerankings.com/xbox360/946346-bayonetta/index.html) impressed (http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/946343-madworld/index.html) by games that don't deserve high review scores.
That is why Infernal Monkey's reviews, along with NWR's, is the only trustworthy reviews you can depend on.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ShyGuy on May 03, 2010, 02:14:48 PM
I remember they all loved Dead Space Extraction too.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 03, 2010, 04:57:43 PM
That wasn't a Mother Brain in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, it was a Aurora Unit (which looks similar to Mother Brain's. Mother Brain was created by the Chozo before turning on them to join the Space Pirates, Aurora Units were created by the Federation).
Interesting, I figured the mother brains were common mainframe systems deployed by the space pirates (after all they were able to get another one after their first got destroyed in Metroid 1) using technology similar to the aurora units.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ok0512 on May 04, 2010, 03:20:41 AM
That was the best trailer I've ever seen.
_______________ Bariatric Surgery (http://www.ebariatricsurgery.com/) Submit Press Release (http://www.ezpr.org/)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: ShyGuy on May 04, 2010, 03:57:48 AM
What trailer?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 04, 2010, 04:03:06 AM
The Human Centipede
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 04, 2010, 08:01:37 AM
That wasn't a Mother Brain in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, it was a Aurora Unit (which looks similar to Mother Brain's. Mother Brain was created by the Chozo before turning on them to join the Space Pirates, Aurora Units were created by the Federation).
Interesting, I figured the mother brains were common mainframe systems deployed by the space pirates (after all they were able to get another one after their first got destroyed in Metroid 1) using technology similar to the aurora units.
We can only speculate since this has not been explained, but maybe the Mother Brain gave the information on itself to the Space Pirates before Samus destroyed it? This would allow the pirates to build a new one.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 08, 2010, 02:00:38 AM
Its all in japanese but trust me you want to see it!
Hopefully this is the start of many behind the scenes specials.
Has no one looked at this video? It's awesome! Our japanese speaking friends can enlighten us.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 13, 2010, 06:59:19 PM
Here is ANOTHER new video that you guys wont look at!
http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=14182
I can't wait until this game comes out and blows everyone's apples off.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on July 13, 2010, 10:58:03 PM
I've already pre-ordered this game. I don't care to know any more about it, because I have essentially bought it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 13, 2010, 11:07:09 PM
Dammit, the more I see of this game, the *less* impressed I am. I just can't believe you can't use the analog stick to control Samus, it's so unnatural to use the D-Pad in a 3D environment.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on July 14, 2010, 11:49:25 AM
I just hope there's not yet another Dark Samus clone (of any kind) anywhere in the game. It is sort of strange to see Samus walking around in sterile-looking, livable environments (e.g. the bathrooms in Caterkiller's second video link.) I wonder if the entire game takes place on board the derelict ship? I had heard speculation that some of the outside areas featured might just be some sort of hologram projector.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on July 14, 2010, 12:03:46 PM
Think more like Metroid Fusion. Different themed areas within the ship. I believe that's what I've read on how the game plays out.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 14, 2010, 12:17:47 PM
The graphics have improved allot since we first saw it thank god. I am loving the look of it so far, and nice to see Samus get hit now, seemed like it was impossible to take damage in all the other videos.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on July 14, 2010, 12:21:21 PM
Does it look like she bounces back a tad bit like previous 2D Metroid games when she gets hit? I haven't had a chance to view this video yet since I'm at work right now... :P
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 14, 2010, 01:20:22 PM
Does it look like she bounces back a tad bit like previous 2D Metroid games when she gets hit? I haven't had a chance to view this video yet since I'm at work right now... :P
Actually yes, just like one would hope she would bounce back.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on July 14, 2010, 01:56:45 PM
The latest press release on Metroid: Other M (can't find the link to where I saw it) confirmed that the entire game takes place on this enormous Galactic Federation ship, and all the other environments we've seen in the screens and trailers are simulations inside these spheres, which are scattered around the ship. For example, the jungle area is in the Biosphere, the fire area is in the Pyrosphere, the ice area is in the Cryosphere... you get the picture.
I s'pose it's too early to say whether the similarity with Metroid Fusion is a good thing. Currently, I'm more concerned about whether the controls will hold up in heavier action sequences that are bound to come later.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 14, 2010, 02:33:39 PM
Yeah I'm really not into d-pad navigation of a 3d world. :/
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on July 14, 2010, 04:03:59 PM
I don't see how it would be that hard to enable Nunchuk support... or hey, Classic Controller support. The game screams CC support far and wide -- press and hold the R trigger to go into 1st person mode, and release to go back to 3rd. Easy. Add in analog running/walking and BAM... control issue solved.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on July 14, 2010, 04:10:04 PM
I don't see how it would be that hard to enable Nunchuk support... or hey, Classic Controller support. The game screams CC support far and wide -- press and hold the R trigger to go into 1st person mode, and release to go back to 3rd. Easy. Add in analog running/walking and BAM... control issue solved.
It wouldn't be difficult to add Nunchuck/CC functionality, but it would mean a lot of time spent testing those features in all areas of the game to make sure they don't cause bugs (something that is extremely likely). I'd gladly wait till the Fall to get this game if it meant we got that functionality, though.
Between this idiotic control scheme and having another Metroid game set entirely on a synthetic environment in space, I'm definitely not getting the game now.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on July 14, 2010, 04:11:39 PM
Oh, absolutely. I'm perfectly ok with delaying Metroid until late October/early November as long as I get better controls.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on July 14, 2010, 04:29:05 PM
Watching the new video has me none to thrilled to play with the d-pad. Probably not getting this game right away. I'll eventually get it, and if I hate the controls I'm gonna make sure Nintendo knows of it in the survey responses.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on July 14, 2010, 05:55:44 PM
It's a funny thing how Metroid is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises (hell, one of gaming's biggest franchises) and yet with Other M it seems as we get closer to the release date the hype is actually going down. Metroid: Other M discussion is always a downer. We've got the control issue of course. There's concern about the storyline, concern about linearity, concern about being too action focused.
I think the PR for this game has been very poor. Since day one there has been a lukewarm attitude about it. Team Ninja's involvement brought up tons of questions. And there is the whole fact that no one really asked for Metroid to be rebooted, on the Wii no less where there already was Metroid Prime 3. The whole project seemed like fixing something that wasn't broken. The d-pad thing is NOT a popular decision. That was likely not a good area to be stubborn about. But ignoring that this has really needed someone to come forward and say "this isn't Ninja Gaiden with Samus. This isn't going to be a linear action game. This is going to be Metroid."
The fact that someone has not done so just makes things worse because it gives the impression that one cannot say such a thing. Whether it turns out good or bad, I think this is going to have slow sales at first. Nintendo has just not done a good job in getting Metroid fans hyped for this.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on July 14, 2010, 07:00:12 PM
I am disappointed by the lack of enthusiasm for this game. This is the first Metroid game I've pre-ordered, much less the first one I'll get at launch. I can't wait to play it on (a week after) its day of release, and explain to all of you doubters how awesome it is.
It's a funny thing how Metroid is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises (hell, one of gaming's biggest franchises) and yet with Other M it seems as we get closer to the release date the hype is actually going down. Metroid: Other M discussion is always a downer. We've got the control issue of course. There's concern about the storyline, concern about linearity, concern about being too action focused.
Really, this happens with every Nintendo game. It's announced, people get excited, but that hype never lasts for one reason or another. The reason is because, when a game is first shown, little is known about it, and everyone begins to wonder about the possibilities. Then, more information becomes available, and it is very likely not what people imagined. So they don't feel so excited anymore. Yet they will likely still buy and enjoy the game anyway, then wonder why they worried. Then do it all again with the next release.
And there is the whole fact that no one really asked for Metroid to be rebooted, on the Wii no less where there already was Metroid Prime 3.
I'm not sure if anyone asked for it, but I'm sure many wanted it. I know I do. The Metroid Prime games are three excellent masterpieces, but I feel they have gone as far as they can go. And actually, Prime 3 felt very stale at parts. I would have been extremely disappointed if this game were Metroid Prime 4.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 14, 2010, 07:41:22 PM
Mop, I was happy when it was a new Metroid game was announced. The moment I found out that the director of the game forced the game to be played only with the Wii Remote, my enthusiasm started to drop. With most Nintendo games, I get more excited as I find out more information on it. The initial trailer was cool, but everything I have seen about the actual gameplay has me convinced that this will not be a good game. I MAY get it once it drops to $20 (which I don't think will take long TBH), but there is no way I would be $54 based on what we know about it.
I think it was a terrible decision to let Yoshio Sakamoto have control over the game. Maybe let him contribute to the game, but do not put him in charge or he will do stuff like refuse to use the nunchuk. Maybe the game will shock me when it is released, but I have very little hope for this game. Nintendo needs to do whatever they can to convince Retro Studios to do it again, or at least keep Sakamoto away.
Also, I don't think the majority of gamers wanted a re-boot. The Prime games put the series back on the map (arguably they made the series more popular than it had ever been), and pretty much defined how the series should be done.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on July 14, 2010, 07:50:40 PM
Quote
I'm not sure if anyone asked for it, but I'm sure many wanted it. I know I do. The Metroid Prime games are three excellent masterpieces, but I feel they have gone as far as they can go. And actually, Prime 3 felt very stale at parts. I would have been extremely disappointed if this game were Metroid Prime 4.
On the Wii though? I'm sure this gen could have come and gone and no one would have been all "where the hell has Metroid been?" Metroid has a Wii entry so you figure that could end up being it for this gen and I don't think anyone would have batted an eye. I was caught off guard by the announcement. I just didn't figure a reboot of Metroid would happen in the middle of a generation like that. I, too, would have been disappointed if this was Metroid Prime 4 but I wouldn't if Metroid Prime 4 was announced years from now on the next Nintendo console (beefed up hardware, improved motion controls, there's some good potential there.)
I do get the vibe from the Other M team that Metroid Prime was a mistake in some way. Have I read too much into it? It feels like they act like they're fixing the series.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on July 14, 2010, 07:58:53 PM
Also, I don't think the majority of gamers wanted a re-boot. The Prime games put the series back on the map (arguably they made the series more popular than it had ever been), and pretty much defined how the series should be done.
So you think everyone wants Metroid Prime 4? I don't know, I think people just want a game that's of the same quality. And to me, this one seems to be, but we won't know for sure until it is released. Impressions of people who have actually played it have been nothing but positive, so I'm not worried.
People also wanted another Zelda: Ocarina of Time. They got it with Twilight Princess, and then a lot of people complained about it being too similar and that Zelda needs to be more fresh. Metroid Prime 4 would probably be the same way (3 already kind of was).
Though you can't please everyone. I love when Nintendo doesn't try, because then we get awesome game like this one.
I do get the vibe from the Other M team that Metroid Prime was a mistake in some way. Have I read too much into it? It feels like they act like they're fixing the series.
It's possible. First-person games aren't very popular in Japan, right? So perhaps this game is seen as an attempt to increase the popularity of Metroid in Japan.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 14, 2010, 08:27:31 PM
I am not saying everyone wanted Metroid Prime 4, but I don't think anyone wanted them to pretend like the last 9 years never happened and to ignore all the great things the Prime series did. And I have seen plenty mixed reviews from people who got to play it at GDC and E3, most of the negative issues seemed to be about the controls (and that is why I am concerned, videos of the controls have not made me any less worried). I would not not even think about saying all have liked it. One of the impressions from IGN that I agree with say that the game seems like Sakamoto is basically trying to make the game be like Shadow Complex for Xbox Live Arcade (in terms of stuff like being in 2D but interacting with stuff in the background).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on July 14, 2010, 08:29:42 PM
What I don't understand is WHY Sakamoto refuses to use the Nunchuk. On the surface, it looks like a Blue Ocean strategy, like they're trying to sell Metroid to a wider audience, maybe as a "bridge title" or whatever, or to people who don't own Wiis but like this game's promise of a grittier, more "realistic" attitude? The MGS-length cutscenes and bigger focus on close-quarters combat...and Team Ninja's involvement...suggest that strategy.
But I'll say it again: it's not like you have to buy the Nunchuk separately. It's right there, in the box! Even Super Mario Galaxy, which was marketed to a wide audience, used it! IT'S NOT DIFFICULT!
I'm MUCH more interested in WHY he's so anti-Nunchuk than annoyed that I can't use it. Although that's still an enormous clusterfoock.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 14, 2010, 10:05:37 PM
Nintendo needs to do whatever they can to convince Retro Studios to do it again
Absolutely not. I'd rather not see any more Metroid games for a while than see Nintendo give the series back to Retro. Don't get me wrong; I love the Prime games, they're fantastic, but we don't need any more of them, and more than that I want to see Retro do other things.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 14, 2010, 11:09:00 PM
Wow, the final game isn't even out and yet according to Metroid fanboys you'd think it's a sequel to Superman 64. Seriously, why don't some of you await until actual REVIEWS of the final version come out before acting like Sakamoto is an evil child molester.
Not to mention most of this b!tching is rather stupid when the majority of people who actually played the game said it controls just fine with the D-Pad. Even most of the negative previews come down to the person saying they'd like to play the game longer to get used to the controls more before saying if they're bad or not, and would really like to play the final version of the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on July 14, 2010, 11:57:44 PM
Neal and Jonny, men I trust deeply when it comes to games, dislike the D-pad controls.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on July 15, 2010, 12:05:04 AM
The Mole-ph ball powerups will make up for the control scheme.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 15, 2010, 01:19:13 AM
No one wanted 1st person Metroid when it was first shown to us. When we got it we loved it! But now that is said and done. Metroid games being enclosed in small corridors and targeting being an issue are 3D issues no more. We are finally getting what we wanted for years now and almost everyone cries about it. Can't wait to be blown away.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 15, 2010, 01:54:02 AM
No one wanted 1st person Metroid when it was first shown to us. When we got it we loved it! But now that is said and done. Metroid games being enclosed in small corridors and targeting being an issue are 3D issues no more. We are finally getting what we wanted for years now and almost everyone cries about it. Can't wait to be blown away.
Exactly, it's the same thing all over again. When the first Prime was about to come out Metroid fanboys proclaimed it would be the worst thing ever. Even when the first reviews started coming out giving the game perfect scores, the Metroid fanboys still declared it would be terrible just because they said so.
Now we're at the same thing over again, the Metroid fanboys are declaring it will be terrible, even though none of them have even played it and most impressions have been very positive. Hell, this game could get a perfect 100% on Gamerankings and the Metroid fanboys would still refuse to play it just because they say so again.
In other words, this is why Nintendo isn't going to add Nunchuck controls because they know there's no point. They know that the majority of people who are going to buy the game will have no problem playing it with the D-Pad and the only people who want Nunchuck controls are the usual fanboys who will never be satisfied anyway. And in 10 years from now when Nintendo tries something different with the Metroid series again, these will be the same people who will complain because now Other M is considered perfect, just like Metroid Prime is now considered perfect. Even though they did nothing but b!tch about them before they came out.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 15, 2010, 10:02:33 AM
No one wanted 1st person Metroid when it was first shown to us. When we got it we loved it! But now that is said and done. Metroid games being enclosed in small corridors and targeting being an issue are 3D issues no more. We are finally getting what we wanted for years now and almost everyone cries about it. Can't wait to be blown away.
I never heard anyone complain about the targeting in the Prime games (especially in MP3, which was like using a mouse), and only some areas had small corridors. In this game, it looks like most of the game will be in small spaces. I have never wanted a game like this and it seems like a step backwards for the series.
There is also a big difference, Prime was reviving a series that had basically been dead for 7 years (there hadn't been a Metroid game since Super Metroid in 1994 and the only thing keeping the series in gamers eyes were Samus appearing in Super Smash Bros. and Super Smash Bros. Melee).
Also, I will bet you anything that this game will NEVER be considered perfect. I will be shocked if it even manages to get over 90% average on GameRankings, there is nothing about the game that makes it sound like it will be a great game. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think they could fix it in time.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on July 15, 2010, 10:24:37 AM
I'm looking forward to this game, but really, I see no point in forcing the D-pad controls. If you don't want to map the controls to the Nunchuk and WiiMote, fine, but please give the option of mapping the controls to the classic controller as an option. I didn't enjoy being forced to use the WiiMote on NMSB, and I don't really care for it here, either; I've never found it to be particularly comfortable.
I prefer the options provided in Mario Kart Wii or a Monster Hunter, where you can pretty much use whatever freaking control scheme you want. I'm not a game designer, but I am a software developer and have worked on programs with user interfaces. Unless there's a really compelling reason from a design perspective to tie the user to D-pad controls, it's never a good idea to force a control scheme on users that is artificially restrictive. (I generally feel the same way about forced stylus controls on DS games; I played Zelda and Starfox Command on the DS, but I never liked the controls at all. They're a pain.)
My understanding is that Team Ninja wanted to have other control options; Sakamoto is the one pushing for the D-pad only controls. Therein lies something frustrating about Nintendo; they offer machines with a lot of different control options, but they never use them all to their full potential.
I have it preordered now simply because it's got the $20 credit-bonus deal going on at Amazon. That credit will be going towards DKC or Kirby later this year. It also happens to be near my birthday, and I'll probably get some cash to cover the expense. Otherwise, I'd probably pass for a few months.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on July 15, 2010, 10:31:59 AM
I just don't like the idea of flip-flopping the remote around in my hands ala Super Paper Mario just to freaking stand stationary so I can shoot missles or scan. This should be done with the tap/hold of a button. It's that simple really... which is why the CC/Pro is perfect for this game. It's not so much the D-pad thing that's getting me... it's how you execute going into 1st-person mode that does it. Aggravating.
I have it preordered now simply because it's got the $20 credit-bonus deal going on at Amazon. That credit will be going towards DKC or Kirby later this year. It also happens to be near my birthday, and I'll probably get some cash to cover the expense. Otherwise, I'd probably pass for a few months.
Hah, I just preorderd it, too, for this very reason. That $20 credit is quite enticing. :)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 15, 2010, 12:50:00 PM
Also, I will bet you anything that this game will NEVER be considered perfect. I will be shocked if it even manages to get over 90% average on GameRankings, there is nothing about the game that makes it sound like it will be a great game. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think they could fix it in time.
So you've actually played and beaten the final version of the game then? There's no way this game could end up being good just like how there was no way an unknown western studio could possible make a first person Metroid game that will be anywhere near the quality of Super Metroid?
It's one thing to be worried about something in an upcoming game, but it's another to already be declaring the game is bad and it's creator a terrible person when not a single review has even come out yet. If the first reviews come out and start giving the game scores of 60-70%, then you'll have some justification in your complaints.
Seriously, this is just like how people are already declaring that Skyward Sword is going to be a rehash of Twilight Princess based off a demo that showed probably less then .05% of the final version of the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 15, 2010, 12:51:59 PM
No one wanted 1st person Metroid when it was first shown to us. When we got it we loved it! But now that is said and done. Metroid games being enclosed in small corridors and targeting being an issue are 3D issues no more. We are finally getting what we wanted for years now and almost everyone cries about it. Can't wait to be blown away.
I never heard anyone complain about the targeting in the Prime games (especially in MP3, which was like using a mouse), and only some areas had small corridors. In this game, it looks like most of the game will be in small spaces. I have never wanted a game like this and it seems like a step backwards for the series.
Before Prime came out there were so many heated discussions about auto aiming, or aiming in 3rd person. It was a big deal, I'm not talking now when it is all said and done and everyone loved it, I am saying this discussion is just like last generation on the cube.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on July 15, 2010, 01:24:51 PM
Quote
No one wanted 1st person Metroid when it was first shown to us.
No, but we did want Metroid in 3D. It was clear that Metroid had to make the 3D jump somehow. First person was a daring way to go so people were unsure of it. But it was clear that Metroid was to move to 3D and that it would have to do it some way.
I think the problem is PR. It's all "dur, we're doing d-pad only cuz we said so!" No good reason has been given. We get tons of emphasis on stuff that means jack-**** to Metroid fans like story and action. Why are you emphasing these things instead of exploration, which is the whole hook of Metroid? Why when people show concern about this being a Ninja Gaiden-esque action game do you only emphasize features that would be typical of a Ninja Gaiden-esque action game?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 15, 2010, 01:36:03 PM
lol d-pad controls is nothing like Metroid moving to first-person. We've all experienced navigating 3D with a D-pad, and it sucks. We know this already. This is my complaint, not the direction, not the director.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 15, 2010, 02:34:42 PM
This game is so far from really being 3D I seriously can't believe you guys are complaining about the D-Pad.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on July 15, 2010, 02:43:23 PM
This game is so far from really being 3D I seriously can't believe you guys are complaining about the D-Pad.
It's 2010, not 1996. Basic things like analog stick support should be a given in this day and age, not contentious and expendable. That this is a 3D game just makes it an even more glaring ommision screw-up, especially from the company who made the analog stick the defacto standard in console gaming with the N64.
Like I said, though, this was just one half of the reason I'm not buying this game: I didn't like this level design when Metroid Fusion did it (which is exactly what this game's setup sounds like), and I don't think I would enjoy it any more this time.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on July 15, 2010, 03:13:27 PM
The thing with the d-pad is even games that use digital movement and have no need for an analog stick usually allow it if you want. You can use the stick to play Street Fighter if you want to. You can play Ikuraga with it (and I usually did since the Cube d-pad was worthless). It's like hip people know that the d-pad is the way to go with those games but if you want to be a philistine and use the analog stick you can. And then we have games like Mario Kart Wii and SSB Brawl where you can use the remote or the classic controller. You have the option.
This is just being inflexible. If they want to design it for the d-pad, fine, but if I want to muck around with the analog stick I don't see why the option can't be made available. In fact I find a lot of this remote-sideway only crap to be really annoying. Super Paper Mario and Warioland Shake It both force you to use it which is quite annoying. NSMB Wii does not (which is funny because I thought for a long time that it did). Hell I want more CC support as well but that's a different topic.
Sakamoto does not have to sacrifice his "vision" or whatever to give people the option. Those that want to play it the intended way can still use the d-pad.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 15, 2010, 03:18:01 PM
This game is so far from really being 3D I seriously can't believe you guys are complaining about the D-Pad.
Exactly, this is what more people need to know. From all the media and video that have been shown, a lot of the gameplay is still very 2D. Most of the 3D area's that have been shown are just small paths with only a few places to move. It's no different from an old school arcade game like Ninja Turtles or Final Fight, where you can move in all directions in the screen, but that doesn't change the fact the gameplay is still very 2D at it's core.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on July 15, 2010, 03:31:52 PM
But Ian's right in that there should AT LEAST be OPTIONS for other control schemes. For the love of Mother Brain, even Virtual Console and WiiWare games offer multiple control schemes. Also, if the game really is 2D(which I severely doubt), then at least let me use the nice big D-pad on the Classic Controller/Pro. The itty-bitty one on the Wiimote kinda sucks by comparison.
Wario Land: Shake It didn't bug me so much with the sideways Wiimote because it really is a 2D game, but I still didn't like having to use the tiny little D-pad.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on July 15, 2010, 07:16:35 PM
I didn't enjoy being forced to use the WiiMote on NMSB,
There is an option to use the Nunchuk in New Super Mario Brothers Wii.
Traditionally, Nintendo games don't have control options. This is really the first generation where they have had a few options, which is usually in the form of controllers instead of customizable button layouts. Usually Nintendo has the attitude that the control setup they implement is best and there's no reason for options, and it would seem that's holding true here.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 16, 2010, 07:06:13 AM
If the game play really is as 2D as your saying, then maybe your right, maybe I won't mind it. Guess I'll wait and see.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on July 16, 2010, 07:58:24 AM
I didn't enjoy being forced to use the WiiMote on NMSB,
There is an option to use the Nunchuk in New Super Mario Brothers Wii.
Traditionally, Nintendo games don't have control options. This is really the first generation where they have had a few options, which is usually in the form of controllers instead of customizable button layouts. Usually Nintendo has the attitude that the control setup they implement is best and there's no reason for options, and it would seem that's holding true here.
D'oh. I forgot about that! And...you're right, sticking to one control scheme is normally Nintendo's m.o. Sometimes I like the control scheme they've chosen; sometimes I don't.
The control decision bugs me, but it won't affect my decision to get the game. The fact that the entire game seems to take place aboard a ship doesn't bug me; but that must be one humongous ship! Seems like they're really stressing a lot of similarities with Alien in this game: the deserted ship, Samus' v.o. dialogue, her maternal instincts towards the "baby," etc. I'm willing to be that distrust of elements in the Galactic Federation will probably be a strong undercurrent as well.
To be honest, I'm really just sort of happy that Nintendo has never quite abandoned Metroid. It's never been that popular in Japan, and after Metroid Prime 2 and 3 under-performed, I thought that maybe we had seen the last console Metroid game for a while. Aside from the original Prime (and perhaps the original game), I'm not sure the series has ever sold in stellar numbers. As well-regarded as Super Metroid is now, it didn't perform as well as expected in it's initial release.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 16, 2010, 02:35:41 PM
Aside from the original Prime (and perhaps the original game), I'm not sure the series has ever sold in stellar numbers. As well-regarded as Super Metroid is now, it didn't perform as well as expected in it's initial release.
Every main series Metroid game has sold over 1 million copies except for Zero Mission. Just because the original and Prime 1 are the only Metroid games to sell over 2 million copies, doesn't mean the rest of the series doesn't perform well. This is why Nintendo is never going to end the series because they know that each game released is almost guaranteed to be a million seller. Hell, even the spinoffs like Hunters and Pinball managed to do a few hundred thousand copies based on just the Metroid name alone.
People have to realize that the Metroid series is a lot more popular then they think. Just because it isn't putting up Mario and Pokemon level numbers, doesn't mean it's a small niche series that only the few of us here on the internet know about.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 16, 2010, 07:00:02 PM
Luigi Dude, where is your evidence that every mainline game has sold over 1 million? I can't find any reliable source that Metroid Prime 2: Echoes sold over 1 million. Maybe it did, but I don't see the proof.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 16, 2010, 07:43:05 PM
Did anyone actually look at this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXrGh5Z1aeE
Maybe some of these things that you guys are worrying about are addressed here. Only thing is it is all in Japanese.
Any Japanese speakers mind looking at this and just giving some tidbits?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 16, 2010, 07:54:21 PM
Luigi Dude, where is your evidence that every mainline game has sold over 1 million? I can't find any reliable source that Metroid Prime 2: Echoes sold over 1 million. Maybe it did, but I don't see the proof.
I just use VGChartz. Yeah I know a lot of people love to bash them but they rather accurate for game totals over the long run since they eventually steal real numbers from the NPD and the various Japanese trackers like Famitsu and Media Create. It's only VGChartz weekly numbers that shouldn't be trusted since they just make sh!t up until the real NPD numbers get released and then make adjustments based on what the NPD says.
Last Febuary, Nintendo announced that 76 Wii games had sold over 1 million copies, with 22 of them being first party and 54 being third party games. Well back when Nintendo announced that I checked out VGChartz and low and behold VGChartz Wii chart showed something very similar.
So unless Nintendo is using VGChartz for their sales data, VGChartz is a source that is reliable for game totals in the long run. Of course if Nintendo is using VGChartz, then it wouldn't matter if they're reliable or not since Nintendo is believing whatever they say and then Nintendo would believe the Metroid games are doing well no matter what.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Toruresu on July 16, 2010, 08:51:58 PM
To me, this game seems like Super Metroid in 2.5d. I know options are great, but really, do you need analog control for a 2.5d game?
I say we just wait until the game is out, and play it for ourselves, then we can judge if the decision to make it d-pad only was a good choice or not.
This games brings something 'new' to the Metroid series, a good story and an emphasis on action. Is this bad? No. Is it different from previous Metroid game? Maybe (depends if you consider Fusion's dialog as story, and MP1-3 cut scenes as story). The action has always been there, always! It's just never been the forefront of the game, because you decided most of the times, if you dodged the monster or killed it.
I agree that this control/story/action discussion is very similar to the "oh noes it's a FPS" of the GameCube era and I bet that in the end, just like the GameCube era, most of us will like the changes made.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on July 17, 2010, 02:35:31 PM
I don't know how I managed to glaze over this earlier, but the press release for the European launch announcement finally shed some light on how the close-quarters-combat works in the game. Excerpt:
Quote
In another series’ first, Samus is getting more physical in Metroid: Other M, with a range of melee attacks up the sleeves of her Power Suit. Jump on enemies to perform the powerful Overblast attack, use the 1 Button with precise timing to Counter-attack and finish off wounded enemies with a Lethal Strike. Other new moves include dodging enemy attacks with a well-timed Sensemove and performing a health-restoring Concentration move by holding the Wii Remote vertically and the A Button pressed. Then there’s the new weapon, the Diffusion Beam, which will scatter Charge Beams after impact and hit additional enemies.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 17, 2010, 04:04:37 PM
Mmmm Diffusion Beam, I like the sound of that!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on July 20, 2010, 09:39:23 PM
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 21, 2010, 02:16:13 AM
Thank you Caliban!
That was an awesome behind the scenes look! I have no worries about this game! hopefully that settled some fears for the rest of you!
I like the comment that Samus isn't good with people. Thats how I figured she would be if she were real, I can't imagine her hanging out with people. That makes all the internal monologues justified as far as I am concerned.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on July 21, 2010, 12:35:26 PM
As long as we get a bikini Samus at the end of the game... I'm all over this game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on July 21, 2010, 01:40:55 PM
Caliban, I love the iconic look of your avi. Where'd you find it? Who's the artist?
EDIT: Found it. I hope the artist makes a print of it, 'cause I'd buy it on Day 1. This might be my favorite image of Samus ever.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on July 21, 2010, 02:13:13 PM
Took me a few minutes to find it, but here it is Halbred: http://albinoraven7.blogspot.com/2010/04/8-bit-bikini.html
Edit: LOL.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on July 21, 2010, 05:01:07 PM
To tell you the truth, that interview did actually put me a little at ease about Other M. I was reassured by Hayashi-san's honesty about the restrictions of using the Wii Remote by itself and the ways in which his team tried to make the controls feel very natural alongside the action scenes. The raw footage of the game spliced into the interview was also encouraging - it seemed much more fluid than what we've seen in the trailers.
Status has been tentatively upgraded from 'Buy it later' to 'Buy it sooner'.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 22, 2010, 01:31:25 AM
That a'boy Killer Man Jaro! I'd like to read the opinions of Ian, Daaman, and maybe some NWR staff after that interview.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 22, 2010, 06:16:50 AM
Any ETA on a review?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on July 22, 2010, 02:09:24 PM
Seriously? It's still July.
The game launches on August 31, so I'll probably get my review copy a week in advance and post the review on launch day or whenever the inevitable embargo drops.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 22, 2010, 10:22:58 PM
Being in Australia, I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to US release dates. Though yes it is still a bit early now I know the release date.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on July 23, 2010, 01:12:21 PM
Australia? Wow. I admit to being jealous--you're surrounded by a treasure trove of reptiles and archaeic mammals.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 23, 2010, 02:31:51 PM
Also platypus.
Don't forget platypus.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on July 23, 2010, 03:36:45 PM
What part of "archaeic mammals" doesn't include the platypus?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on July 23, 2010, 03:50:49 PM
The part that's not a real word.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: decoyman on July 23, 2010, 05:15:23 PM
I flip into this thread randomly, and people are talking about sexualizing Birdo (OHGAHMYEYES). Randomly flip to this page, and people are talking about platy...pi (?) and Australia.
GET ON TOPIC PEOPLE, I WANT TO READ YOUR TOTALLY REHASHED/REGURGITATED THOUGHTS ON METROID OTHER M.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on July 23, 2010, 05:36:22 PM
Great videos. The developers give the philosophy behind their game and yet reco'nize that it's an important franchise; they discuss the need for the fire button to immediately fire despite the need to animate it quickly, the no doubt many cutscenes to come, and trying to 'womanize' Samus; the part about the context-sensitive actions, like a defensive jump or a 'fatality' attack make this game at least sound pretty unique.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on July 23, 2010, 06:04:25 PM
Well, Team Ninja certainly knows how to "womanize" their characters. I look forward to that, anyway.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on July 23, 2010, 06:13:42 PM
I wonder if this game is successful will Team Ninja work on a Ninja Gaiden game for the wii?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on July 23, 2010, 08:08:37 PM
I wonder if this game is successful will Team Ninja work on a Ninja Gaiden game for the wii?
No.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on July 23, 2010, 08:16:11 PM
More like a Ninja Gaiden game for the 3DS I'll bet. Wii is becoming close to a lame duck console now. I doubt we will have very many major releases coming out after this year for Wii besides the possible Dragon Quest X (which may or may not actually come to Wii at this point).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on July 23, 2010, 08:21:02 PM
Why does everyone act like the 3DS is the successor to the Wii?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on July 23, 2010, 08:31:23 PM
It's not a successor, it's just that it's more powerful than the Wii. Which makes the Wii look terrible in terms of being a home console.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on July 23, 2010, 08:38:38 PM
Have the specs of the system even been released?
They're two different markets, basically, I don't think anyone will be comparing the two. Nintendo certainly isn't going to ditch the Wii gold mine in favour of 3DS projects; if anything changes, it will move to Nintendo's next home system, if it's coming soon. And it might just be.
As for third-parties, they aren't going to favour the 3DS over Wii any more than they favour the current DS over Wii.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on July 23, 2010, 08:40:21 PM
True. But I would think with the shader capabilities of the 3DS, it's going to appear more powerful... and honestly, it does.
I think Dragon Quest X is going to move over to Nintendo's next console, though. No 3DS.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on July 24, 2010, 09:05:05 PM
Fewer polygons, more effects than GameCube or Wii.
Actually, on a smaller screen, you're not going to notice the anti-anti-aliasing.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on July 25, 2010, 02:18:32 AM
Meh, I'll wait until it's out for a final judgment. Still very negative though.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 25, 2010, 11:29:39 PM
Played Metroid at Comicon. Enjoyed the voice acting and the graphics very much. Auto shooting is awesome and the D-Pad in 3D space is just fine. No one else was complaining either. It was very difficult for me to get used to pointing the remote though. I saw many people have trouble with it as well. Because the host kept telling people to aim by pointing. She didn't know what the heck she was talking about, because in many of those sections auto aim was what was necessary. I realized I just could not point at the screen in such a quick draw fashion. But I did see one kid playing, he made it look effortless. I just watched and watched, I think he played several times and just understood it better than anyone else.
I played just enough to learn how to dodge and do epic moves, which was really awesome because I didn't have to rattle my brain over complex buttons. A super plus in my book.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on July 26, 2010, 12:44:19 AM
Caterkiller, you made me very happy.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: bustin98 on July 26, 2010, 01:00:31 AM
One more mention about the 3DS: The anti-aliasing is to improve the 3D effect. There would be a weird wobbling effect around the outline of every curved surface if the pixels don't line up. Smoothing the lines will make for a clear representation, even at a small level.
Metroid: I don't think I'm sold on Samus having a voice. The voice over in a video I saw made me think 'That's not what she is supposed to sound like'. I have years of a pre-determined voice for her though.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on July 26, 2010, 09:09:53 AM
I've always pictured Samus sounding something like Sigourney Weaver. :P
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 26, 2010, 01:51:47 PM
As for third-parties, they aren't going to favour the 3DS over Wii any more than they favour the current DS over Wii.
Because there are a lot of Resident Evil games on the DS. Or, you know, any of the other major games that third parties have announced for the 3DS.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 26, 2010, 01:56:01 PM
DS has had a lot of major third party games too.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on July 26, 2010, 04:33:55 PM
Nintendo Power sent me a really cool Other: M poster for having a subscription. One side has her in the power suit with zero suit Samus standing at the side with the image of outer space in the back ground. The other side of the poster has Samus in her power suit pinning down a reptilian creature and preparing to blast it with her gun. By Team Ninja developing this game, I wish they would have included a swimsuit poster of Samus with big boobs.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on July 26, 2010, 05:32:34 PM
I think that's the problem with giving a voice to a character who has been silent for so long. Most people probably already have some idea in their head what the character would sound like, and the given voice probably won't match it for most people.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on July 26, 2010, 06:03:27 PM
I must admit, when Samus said "time to go, Mother," I thought of Ellen Ripley calling the computer "Mother" in the first Alien movie.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on July 27, 2010, 11:33:02 PM
Another nice video for discussion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRMBerJtJjM&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRMBerJtJjM&feature=player_embedded)
It looks good. The dialogue is in Japanese, but it's just so weird to hear Samus being so...vocal.
I suspect that all of those redshirtsSpace Marines Galactic Federation soldiers will meet an untimely demise, one at a time, as the game progresses. The fact that there going to the trouble to introduce the soldiers in the trailer convinces me of this. Also, what are the chances that there will be a traitor among them? This is kind of getting me pumped for the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on July 28, 2010, 12:32:58 AM
I posted my thoughts on Twitter about this trailer, and all I can say is I had my doubts, but now I'm sold. I mean, completely sold on this game.
THE WAVE BEAM RETURNETH! WOOT.
Cannot wait for this game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on July 28, 2010, 01:33:18 AM
I suspect that all of those redshirtsSpace Marines Galactic Federation soldiers will meet an untimely demise, one at a time, as the game progresses. The fact that there going to the trouble to introduce the soldiers in the trailer convinces me of this. Also, what are the chances that there will be a traitor among them? This is kind of getting me pumped for the game.
I'm not sure it's a good story if you can guess all of it just from a trailer...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 28, 2010, 02:49:36 AM
Whoa! Look at all those classic upgrades! That super jump is back baby! Gotta love those bright environments as well! The sky is so blue!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Deguello on July 28, 2010, 03:19:41 AM
Quote
I'm not sure it's a good story if you can guess all of it just from a trailer...
From an intertextual standpoint, you can pretty much guess how any plot is going to go from a trailer if you've read enough fiction or seen enough movies.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on July 28, 2010, 07:11:35 AM
I'm not sure it's a good story if you can guess all of it just from a trailer...
From an intertextual standpoint, you can pretty much guess how any plot is going to go from a trailer if you've read enough fiction or seen enough movies.
Only if the trailer shows all the important clues, especially if there's going to be some twists that change the direction of the story and aren't standard fare.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: bustin98 on July 28, 2010, 10:28:20 AM
That trailer doesn't really indicate if the space marines are all doomed or not. It seems in some cases that they help Samus out with some creatures. Though it could be as you go through the levels they die off one by one till only Samus is left.
The trailer also tells me that I really dislike Japanese storytelling. All the posturing and touching by the teammembers... Its like they threw in an episode of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers into a Metroid game. I hope there is a skip button for the cutscenes.
"Ah-ha, we are all teammates but we are friends, too, ah-ha!" "Yes! We are friends! Let me put my hand on your back to show others just how good friends we are! Ah-ha!"
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Deguello on July 28, 2010, 11:51:51 AM
I'm not sure it's a good story if you can guess all of it just from a trailer...
From an intertextual standpoint, you can pretty much guess how any plot is going to go from a trailer if you've read enough fiction or seen enough movies.
Only if the trailer shows all the important clues, especially if there's going to be some twists that change the direction of the story and aren't standard fare.
I think my point is: How many plotlines are even possible with a game like this?
1. Everything goes swimmingly, bad guy defeated, see you next mission. 2. Things go poorly, everybody except Samus is dead, Samus beats Mother Ridley Prime (whoever), see you next mission. (Comedy option) 3. #1 or #2, but it's all a dream/simulation Samus is having during her coma in Metroid Fusion, see you next mission.
That's why there are only the two masks in the happy/sad drama logo.
Quote
The trailer also tells me that I really dislike Japanese storytelling.
That's not "japanese." It's just using blocking and actor position to emote the feel of the scene so that the meaning can be conveyed without words. It's used in silent movies all the time. Imagine you are deaf and playing the game, or you are a kid who doesn't fully understand English. How do you know Link's a good guy? Because he's all in green and has that determined look on his face. How do you know Ganondorf's a bad guy? Because he's wearing mostly black and is scowling an evil smile (and usually whenever he meets Link he's got him in a chokehold or he's throwing magic at him.)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on July 28, 2010, 12:05:54 PM
Yeah, as I said, it's only speculation on my part, but that's part of the fun...at least for me.
We don't have a lot to go on plot-wise yet. We know from Fusion that Adam was once her CO, and, from the trailers, as well as what we know from the demo, some of the other people in the team know Samus. "Remember me?"
From that, I'll assume that Samus probably has some sort of connection with at least some of the team members. Fairly late into the trailer, Samus clearly screams "Anthony", which is apparently the name of the "Remember me?" guy.
My guess just was that this was her old squadron, or at least some of the team members left were probably from her old squad. If that's true, then they're probably the closest thing to family that Samus has, albeit, in Samus' case, they are probably estranged friends or family. Since we know that the developers seem to be trying to humanize Samus with this game, and so much of the trailers so far have emphasized the loss of the "baby," I think it follows that much of the game is also going to focus on Samus' reaction to dealing with loss.
I'd agree with Deguello. There's not that many ways that this could go down. It doesn't have to be unpredictable and original to be entertaining, and I can't see a Metroid game being a comedy in the traditional sense. That's why I think the soldiers are probably going to be monster food.
The story might be executed well or it might flop; the trailer does still intrigue me, though.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: bustin98 on July 28, 2010, 03:05:24 PM
Quote
That's not "japanese." It's just using blocking and actor position to emote the feel of the scene so that the meaning can be conveyed without words. It's used in silent movies all the time. Imagine you are deaf and playing the game, or you are a kid who doesn't fully understand English. How do you know Link's a good guy? Because he's all in green and has that determined look on his face. How do you know Ganondorf's a bad guy? Because he's wearing mostly black and is scowling an evil smile (and usually whenever he meets Link he's got him in a chokehold or he's throwing magic at him.)
The stuff you mentioned as examples has nothing to do with what I was referencing. I totally get using colors and expressions to convey a feeling or to foreshadow a character's alignment. But the movement and positioning of characters along with camera position and movement is of a particular style that I do not care for. The interaction between the characters is soo much ham and cheese, its embarrassing to watch.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on July 28, 2010, 05:54:35 PM
I don't care if it's good or not, I just hope the story doesn't get in the way of the gameplay.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Deguello on July 28, 2010, 06:25:18 PM
I think I was referring to you talking about "posturing" and "touching." That's what that's all about, being able to convey a scene without dialogue (of which there is some). You know that black guy is her friend because he's all smiley. You know that Chris Cooper looking fella is distrusting because he won't make eye contact. it's like Noh theater, where nobody has any idea what's being said (including the Japanese audience,) but can fgure out what's going on just by the action.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 28, 2010, 06:30:46 PM
I don't care if it's good or not, I just hope the story doesn't get in the way of the gameplay.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on July 28, 2010, 06:43:27 PM
Did I watch the same trailer? I didn't get any of those vibes. All I remember is quiet, quiet arrive to the scene and... BOOM, ALIEN APPEARS AHGG SHOOT IT! Busy space marine at the console giving orders. Stern look. urrgh! tough guy. samus with dramatic music. I GOT IT! NOO! BOOOOM!! SAMUUUS!!! end trailer.
Action movie stuff, not so much Japanese. Well not all action movie stuff, there's lots of gameplay footage thrown in there too, almost like they want to convey that it's going to be a Metroid game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on July 28, 2010, 07:42:09 PM
I got a feeling not of them all dieing, but more it was introducing the new 'squad-based-support-gameplay' in the game. You can probaby call them in at certain moments as backup and such.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on July 28, 2010, 07:54:52 PM
SAMUS DOESN'T NEED BACKUP
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 29, 2010, 05:14:54 AM
It's not that the enemies are easy to defeat, it's that I don't even have to asim at them to hit them, I just have to face them and press 1111111 and it's done.
The final battle with Mother Brain was pretty challenging, unless you had the Captain Rainbow gun, in which case it was really super easy...
Of course, even after beating Mother Brain you still had to get the hell out of the whole damn place before the entire planet explodes, and that was in itself fairly challenging. Like if you missed a platform or something you fell all the way to the problem and you were done.
Sounds like some people need to invest in a Classic Controller.
That is too small too. I'm not 12 anymore, my hands cramp when using that thing for extended periods of time. I'm hoping the CCPro works out better since it has handles to grip.
There are 3rd party thingers you can get that are shells that the wiimote snaps into and that adds grips to it and whatnot. It may be worthwhile for you to invest in one of them.
ETA: And for all of you who are complaining about the Wiimote's D-pad being too tiny, is it possible there exists a 3rd party shell that could make the D-PAD larger? Have any of you ever bothered looking? Something like that might exist. It would be pretty simply to have something the wiimote snaps into which superimposes a larger D-pad thing over the existing smaller D-pad and gives the player a larger D-pad without any lose of functionality.
Dammit, the more I see of this game, the *less* impressed I am. I just can't believe you can't use the analog stick to control Samus, it's so unnatural to use the D-Pad in a 3D environment.
I believe that was how it was for virtually all the PS1 games that were made prior to when Sony tacked the thumbsticks onto the controller. Sony insisted that all games on the PS1 be 3D no matter what, but in the first year or so of the PS1 the default standard controller did not have sticks so you had to move your characters in a 3D environment with only a crummy D-Pad (and a crummy D-pad at that).
But I don't know how that worked out because I never owned a PS1...
The latest press release on Metroid: Other M (can't find the link to where I saw it) confirmed that the entire game takes place on this enormous Galactic Federation ship, and all the other environments we've seen in the screens and trailers are simulations inside these spheres, which are scattered around the ship. For example, the jungle area is in the Biosphere, the fire area is in the Pyrosphere, the ice area is in the Cryosphere... you get the picture.
I s'pose it's too early to say whether the similarity with Metroid Fusion is a good thing. Currently, I'm more concerned about whether the controls will hold up in heavier action sequences that are bound to come later.
Neat. Sounds to me like a Star Trek kinda deal with the holodecks. So Samus is going to go on Holo adventures, eh? Well, lets just hope the safety protocols are enabled. ;)
I think that's the problem with giving a voice to a character who has been silent for so long. Most people probably already have some idea in their head what the character would sound like, and the given voice probably won't match it for most people.
Another danger is that she will be given some shrill annoying voice, which is actually likely considering that's how things ended up for Mario with his Mickey Mouse-esque voice. That, or she'll be given some sultry Jessica Rabbit voice and then no one will be able to take her seriously anymore. I fear one of those two things are going to end up happening.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dasmos on July 29, 2010, 06:46:13 AM
lol forget double posting, quintuple posting is where it is at, yo.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on July 29, 2010, 11:09:06 AM
lol forget double posting, quintuple posting is where it is at, yo.
I didn't double (or quintiple or whatever) post, because each post was different. I hadn't viewed this thread since March so now all at once I was responding to the posts that had built up since that time.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dasmos on July 29, 2010, 11:28:04 AM
lol forget double posting, quintuple posting is where it is at, yo.
I didn't double (or quintiple or whatever) post, because each post was different. I hadn't viewed this thread since March so now all at once I was responding to the posts that had built up since that time.
Yeah and you can do all that in one post. You don't need to space it out into five. That's basically spamming. People are going to read whether or no it's spread into 5 posts. So making more than one is unnecessary. Even if you're trying to quote more than one post, you can still do it in the same post. Clicking the quote button just places the post at the end of the quick reply. It's just stupid if you don't. Really stupid.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on July 29, 2010, 01:42:42 PM
Just in case it was lost due to the nonsense here it is again.
lol forget double posting, quintuple posting is where it is at, yo.
I didn't double (or quintiple or whatever) post, because each post was different. I hadn't viewed this thread since March so now all at once I was responding to the posts that had built up since that time.
Yeah and you can do all that in one post.
Each response was to a different post/poster, unlike what you're doing which is a ton of posts just to me about one thing which was obviously done to be a troll.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on July 29, 2010, 02:53:33 PM
That was an awesome preview! Metroid is being painted in such a good light, I don't see how people can not get excited for this.
Thank you. The nonsensical posting was driving me crazy. People need to read this impression of the game. I've gone from not too terribly excited about this game to full-on GIVE ME METROID NOW. I'm guessing Adam and crew are just near the beginning of the game helping out to get you used to the game's control scheme... lending a hand, ya know? Because that preview/impression makes Samus seem like she is, once again, isolated. I cannot wait to play this game. The lethal blow attacks are perfectly suited to what Samus is all about. Looks killer!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on July 31, 2010, 08:16:44 AM
Here's another positive impression from Computer & Video Games: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=257912 (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=257912)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: AV on August 01, 2010, 12:47:02 PM
FYI: CLub Nintendo now allows you to maker Metroid other m in INTEND TO BUY. I'm not sure how long that window is for intend to buy so I am just telling everyone now
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 01, 2010, 12:54:40 PM
The Club Nintendo site says you have until August 24 (the week before the game releases) to do the Intend to Buy survey.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on August 05, 2010, 01:55:21 PM
Here is a not so great preview from IGN. The demo was very short, and felt clunky sums it up. Not bad but not really good either.
http://wii.ign.com/articles/111/1110480p1.html
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on August 05, 2010, 02:21:22 PM
Here is a pretty great preview from NWR. Actually, it's an impression, but whatever. IGN sucks.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on August 07, 2010, 04:07:51 PM
The Official Nintendo Magazine of the UK had a very in-depth feature on Metroid: Other M in the most recent issue (I think they played it in its entirety so it's basically a review, though no score was given). In short, the writer said...
The Good The agility of the character and its contribution to the pacing: above everything else, this aspect of the game garnered the most praise. They say that Samus scales the environment smoothly at a blistering pace, with the basic controls being streamlined to make this movement easy. The Metroid staples: apparently, despite the lack of coverage on this stuff, the staple elements of the franchise are still all there. The enormous areas to explore, the nook and cranny upgrade hunting, the exhilarating bosses - all present and all up to high standard. The Team Ninja influence: aside from the faster pacing, which is likely one of their touches as well. The writer gave props to the melee combat and the dodge mechanic. The narrative exposition: would you believe it, they actually enjoyed the story, especially the grand cinematic scenes that helped to tell it. Who would have thought, eh?
The Middle Ground The soundtrack: not bad, but not great. It is supposedly a minimalistic soundtrack, driven more on ambience, and some extended sequences are silent. The auto-targeting: mostly good, they say -- however, in cases of shooting into the screen or directly above the character, it was not completely reliable. The voice acting: to put this bluntly, they called the voice acting decent, although the dialogue is 'sometimes a bit hammy'.
The Bad The perspective transition: the writer mentioned that switching from 3rd to 1st person can be disorientating and takes a second or two to adjust, which may give time for the enemy to cause damage. The new method of healing: unlike in previous games where you collect energy pellets to regain health, Other M asks to you to hold the Remote vertically and hold A to gradually regenerate. I'll leave it at that; you can probably guess why that would be a problem.
I really have to try this game for myself. As extensive as the article in the magazine was, it still didn't give closure for me. So yeah, got to find out for myself.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 09, 2010, 12:12:35 PM
Quote
The new method of healing: unlike in previous games where you collect energy pellets to regain health, Other M asks to you to hold the Remote vertically and hold A to gradually regenerate. I'll leave it at that; you can probably guess why that would be a problem.
So I guess in the heat of the action when you're fighting a bunch of enemies at once you better hope you had enough energy to start the fight with. That seems like a rather dumb change. There have been times in Metroid games where I had regained health during boss battles and I NEEDED to. How do you do that if you can't stop and "reload" your health?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on August 09, 2010, 12:21:14 PM
The new method of healing: unlike in previous games where you collect energy pellets to regain health, Other M asks to you to hold the Remote vertically and hold A to gradually regenerate. I'll leave it at that; you can probably guess why that would be a problem.
So I guess in the heat of the action when you're fighting a bunch of enemies at once you better hope you had enough energy to start the fight with. That seems like a rather dumb change. There have been times in Metroid games where I had regained health during boss battles and I NEEDED to. How do you do that if you can't stop and "reload" your health?
That was exactly the problem cited in the preview. It would seem that the Dead Space approach may be necessary, by which I mean heal whenever possible so that you are as prepared as you can be for a potential firefight. I agree, it is a mistake and could be frustrating.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: SixthAngel on August 09, 2010, 12:24:46 PM
So I guess in the heat of the action when you're fighting a bunch of enemies at once you better hope you had enough energy to start the fight with. That seems like a rather dumb change. There have been times in Metroid games where I had regained health during boss battles and I NEEDED to. How do you do that if you can't stop and "reload" your health?
I think not being able to is the point. If you run out of energy in a fight you die just like any other game. It stops you from regaining health against tough bosses, you need to be good enough to beat them with what you have.
If you really need more health because its so hard the bosses might have a small break in between a powerful attacks where you can gain a little health instead of having them shoot fire/rocks/energy at you that gives you health when you shoot it like before.
Lets be honest, if you searched for the energy packs in the previous gamesyou were pretty much invincible. This could add a welcome degree of challenge.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: balzzzy on August 09, 2010, 02:22:29 PM
The new method of healing: unlike in previous games where you collect energy pellets to regain health, Other M asks to you to hold the Remote vertically and hold A to gradually regenerate. I'll leave it at that; you can probably guess why that would be a problem.
So I guess in the heat of the action when you're fighting a bunch of enemies at once you better hope you had enough energy to start the fight with. That seems like a rather dumb change. There have been times in Metroid games where I had regained health during boss battles and I NEEDED to. How do you do that if you can't stop and "reload" your health?
Allow me to try to clear a bit of the air on this one. When I played the demonstration I did this re-charge move and it actually healed a lot faster than I thought it would. The total time it took to re-charge 2 energy tanks and 12 missles was about 2 - 3 seconds, not bad but quite different than what we're used to nonetheless. My friend that attended with me re-charged at the mini-boss with the curled up tail and that thing constantly stalks you, dashes at you, even while cloaked. Since it took 3 missles to destroy an enemy generator you can see that we could only destroy 4 of them. However this is not the case, as you are aiming at the generator more of the enemy's pop out so you shoot them instead of shooting the generator. I found doing the recharge after I cleared each room worked best, as some rooms still lock you in until all enemies and generators are destroyed. Hope this helps in at least understanding a bit more about the feature. You don't necessarily have to agree with it. Remember they want fast paced action and they don't want you to sit there for a minute while you charge your stuff.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 09, 2010, 02:58:26 PM
The new method of healing: unlike in previous games where you collect energy pellets to regain health, Other M asks to you to hold the Remote vertically and hold A to gradually regenerate. I'll leave it at that; you can probably guess why that would be a problem.
So I guess in the heat of the action when you're fighting a bunch of enemies at once you better hope you had enough energy to start the fight with. That seems like a rather dumb change. There have been times in Metroid games where I had regained health during boss battles and I NEEDED to. How do you do that if you can't stop and "reload" your health?
So if something makes the game more of a challenge "its dumb"? I really don't think its realistic or right to be able to regain health in the middle of something like a boss battle. If you can't fight the boss without dying then you deserve to die and should be forced to start over, imho. However, if you do defeat the boss then you now have plenty of time to regenerate your health in peace. That's how it should be. Regaining health in the middle of a fight is what is "dumb", imo.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on August 09, 2010, 03:07:29 PM
Maybe there will be something revealed in the story showing how Samus gains the ability to auto-heal. Possibly something crazy happened after the events of Super Metroid to her Varia/Gravity Suit, and technicians/scientists added in the auto-heal ability to keep Samus stable. This could also lead in to how her suit/body reacts to the X virus that imprints on her in Fusion -- which we already know is the next story in line after Other M anyway.
I dunno, I kinda like the idea of auto-healing. It adds in another aspect of gameplay that will keep you on your toes -- especially in the midst of the grueling boss battle.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: balzzzy on August 09, 2010, 03:40:46 PM
Well after saying that the author also wrote "...even with some weird quirks the game felt like it will be a really fun and engaging Metroid experience."
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on August 09, 2010, 03:58:55 PM
Without knowing about the scenarios being thrown at you, it's difficult to say. You could argue that having the ability to heal at any time could be a permanent crutch to hold up the player. I was more thinking of typical late-game boss fights, where the patterns are relentless - the writer of the preview in ONM UK said that it annoyed him that there was no real opportunity to heal when the boss was on his back constantly.
I suppose it is a valid point that if you are damaged so much that you need to heal, it is your own fault and you should learn to deal with it. That said, I imagine if one of you got into a situation where you had to heal badly but the boss kept hitting you before you had the chance, it would be frustrating. Although it would show that the mechanic is balanced so it cannot be abused.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 09, 2010, 04:51:06 PM
Quote
So if something makes the game more of a challenge "its dumb"?
It's not dumb if it's intentional. If they wanted to make the games more challenging and this was their way of doing so, that's fine. But if the idea was just to streamline replenishing health by taking out energy pellets (no more standing near an enemy generator to heal yourself; a time consuming exercise that is unappealing to non-fans) and the game became harder as a result then it is dumb.
In other words if they just accidentally made the game harder by changing an established mechanic without putting the proper thought into it then it is dumb.
And I would argue that games where you heal on your own make no more sense then ones where you use some item to heal. In real life if you get shot you're either dead or you're fucked. Videogames use an artistic licence on this so that you don't have to do perfect runs every time.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 10, 2010, 12:49:44 PM
Well, its not like Samus goes through the game naked (we all wish that were true though, don't we?). She has a suit of armor and that makes it acceptable that she could take a hit or multiple hits without dying, right? It is like how our soldiers these days wear body armor and they are able to survive bullets and shrapnel that in previous wars like WW2 would have resulted in hundreds or thousands of casualties. You have to look at Samus' Chozo armor as like body armor, except thousands of times more advanced. That said, we don't know all that is involved in that armor technology so the possibility is open that there is something in there that realistically can allow her to heal up herself.... I'm thinking perhaps something like nano-robots or something that can repair damage to either the armor or to herself, but it takes time and that's why she needs to be out of harm's way for a few seconds.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on August 10, 2010, 03:52:33 PM
Since it seems the suit's protection is limited by energy, not armor I think it's some kind of shield system.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 10, 2010, 05:42:34 PM
If done right, the heal system could make the game more challenging. The Metroid Prime games only get easier as you play through the game, gaining more energy tanks, plus lots of bosses had ways of acquiring energy pellets, and you could just concentrate on that if you get into trouble. Now you might actually have to dodge instead of plowing through like a tank.
If done right, the heal system could make the game more challenging. The Metroid Prime games only get easier as you play through the game, gaining more energy tanks, plus lots of bosses had ways of acquiring energy pellets, and you could just concentrate on that if you get into trouble. Now you might actually have to dodge instead of plowing through like a tank.
Well, its not like Samus goes through the game naked (we all wish that were true though, don't we?).
I sincerely hope no one is truly so shallow.
Hi, Zach Miller. Nice to meetcha.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 11, 2010, 12:01:32 AM
In my opinion, what always made the bosses in games like Metroid or Zelda easy was that they had certain weaknesses and once you know what those were you could exploit that, and it also became possible to learn how to avoid their attacks. So the bosses would be hard the first time you fought them and had no idea what you were doing, but after that they'd be insanely easy and you could almost beat them in your sleep.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 11, 2010, 12:04:36 AM
If done right, the heal system could make the game more challenging. The Metroid Prime games only get easier as you play through the game, gaining more energy tanks, plus lots of bosses had ways of acquiring energy pellets, and you could just concentrate on that if you get into trouble. Now you might actually have to dodge instead of plowing through like a tank.
Well, its not like Samus goes through the game naked (we all wish that were true though, don't we?).
I sincerely hope no one is truly so shallow.
Well, among teenage and 20-something males almost every single one is that shallow. I think that's actually the reason why Nintendo put Samus in a Zero Suit or in a Bikini (in the original Metroid there was a cheat code to make Samus be in a Bikini). They wouldn't have done that unless people were shallow. It was done specifically to appeal to that demographic.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 11, 2010, 12:26:37 AM
You sound proud of that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 11, 2010, 12:40:59 AM
Your tone makes us want to act proud.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 11, 2010, 01:11:58 AM
I can understand that. I didn't mean to accuse anyone of anything.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 11, 2010, 02:53:51 AM
Well, among teenage and 20-something males almost every single one is that shallow.
Actually when it comes to videogames this isn't true. Most games over the years that have tried to use sex to sell them have done poorly. Most men when it comes to videogames don't really care if there's naked women in them or not since they can easily find images of real women for free on the internet.
This is why games that use sex as a selling point end up failing since most guys aren't going to spend over $50 dollars on something they can get for free someplace else.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on August 11, 2010, 03:19:49 AM
BMX XXX is a great example of how sex can phail to sell a game. But there are a lot of examples where sex can sell games. Extreme Beach Volleyball, anyone? I personally detest the use of sex to sell anything. It does have it's place, but blatantly using it to sell a product irritates me.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 11, 2010, 01:27:15 PM
To be fair, the first DoAX game had a reasonably good volleyball sim behind it's T&A.
Can't say the same for the sequels.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on August 11, 2010, 04:03:52 PM
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on August 11, 2010, 04:08:43 PM
How much did this game cost to manufacture? I am betting atleast 15 million.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 11, 2010, 04:19:27 PM
$15 million would make it the most expensive game ever to manufacture (manufacture means the instruction booklet, the box, the disc itself, etc.). I think you meant develop. As for how much that cost, that would be too hard to speculate because Nintendo never (or rarely) give us that kind of info to at least compare it to.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on August 11, 2010, 04:36:08 PM
Quote
Kitaura: Yes! (laughs) I was really worried, thinking 'Oh no, he doesn't like it...', but then when I peeked at his face, his eyes were full of tears.
Iwata: Oh my...
M is for Made an old man cry.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on August 11, 2010, 05:03:32 PM
$15 million would make it the most expensive game ever to manufacture (manufacture means the instruction booklet, the box, the disc itself, etc.). I think you meant develop. As for how much that cost, that would be too hard to speculate because Nintendo never (or rarely) give us that kind of info to at least compare it to.
I meant develope, not manufacturer. That was a misnomer on my part.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 11, 2010, 05:15:03 PM
I wasn't sure. I wish we could know how much the game cost to make, unfortunately we only know how much a very small percentage of games cost to make (it's rare when we do know).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 11, 2010, 07:35:00 PM
I found the Iwata Asks interview really interesting. It sounds like they have this really ambitious idea for this action game that seemlessly mixes with cinematics and it all sounds real cool... but I don't understand why this game has to be a Metroid game. It sounds more like they have this vision and they're going to mold Metroid to make it fit. But why can't they just make a new IP? It just doesn't sound like they set out to make a great Metroid game but rather they wanted to make something different and then they decided to use the Metroid IP for it.
One thing I found exciting is that this doesn't sound like a typical Nintendo release. They emphasize how Nintendo and Team Ninja seem quite different. Nintendo has become pretty stagnant to me and this sounds like something different for a change. But it's not as different as it could be. It's like Nintendo can't release a game anymore without some sort of franchise character on the box.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on August 11, 2010, 07:52:15 PM
Can they release a game without a franchise character on the box? Games without them seem to sell with mediocrity. What was the last non-major franchise release from Nintendo? Pikmin? there were a few titles in Japan that never came here but besides those nothing springs to mind. Maybe Nintendo has lost the confidence that they can push a successful new IP. I'd say the perfect solution could be WiiWare and DSiWare, but they don't release much there that could then grow into a new major IP/Franchise.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 11, 2010, 08:53:22 PM
Looks like I need to post the list again. Once again, here's a list of new Nintendo IP's that have been created since Iwata became president back in 2002 that aren't part of the Wii __ series.
Legend of Starfy Drill Dozer Rhythm Heaven The bit Generations series Band Brothers Nintendogs Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents Polarium Another Code Electroplankton Jump Super Stars Magnetica Brain Training Big Brain Academy Magical Starsign Hotel Dusk ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat Soma Bringer Fossil Fighters Style Savvy Tomodachi Collection Geist Chibi-Robo Odama Endless Ocean Captain Rainbow Disaster: Day of Crisis Tact of Magic Zangeki no Reginleiv FlingSmash Xenoblade The Last Story
Not to mention I'm actually missing several other series but I think some of you get the point again.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 11, 2010, 09:17:58 PM
I wouldn't count Starfy. The first game in the series was released in September 2002, so it came out about 3 months after he became president. Jump Super Stars/Ultimate Stars is a little iffy since I don't know if I would consider them Nintendo IPs since they only published the two games and they feature no Nintendo characters.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on August 11, 2010, 09:27:47 PM
I swear this topic has some kind of record for amount of derailments within the same topic.
Anyway I read through the Iwata Asks and it seems as though they focused around the simple controls and it seems as though they got it working pretty well. I think only Mop it up has the game preordered. So Mop it up what made you take a shot at this title while most of us are hesitent?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on August 11, 2010, 09:35:10 PM
Looks like I need to post the list again. Once again, here's a list of new Nintendo IP's that have been created since Iwata became president back in 2002 that aren't part of the Wii __ series.
Legend of Starfy Drill Dozer Rhythm Heaven The bit Generations series Band Brothers Nintendogs Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents Polarium Another Code Electroplankton Jump Super Stars Magnetica Brain Training Big Brain Academy Magical Starsign Hotel Dusk ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat Soma Bringer Fossil Fighters Style Savvy Tomodachi Collection Geist Chibi-Robo OdamaEndless Ocean Captain Rainbow Disaster: Day of Crisis Tact of Magic Zangeki no Reginleiv FlingSmash Xenoblade The Last Story
Not to mention I'm actually missing several other series but I think some of you get the point again.
Modified to remove Japan only games.
How many of these were crazy good sellers? Note a number of these never left Japan as well. Plus it remains to be seen if Xenoblade and Last Story come here.
And games can't count as franchises if only one game was ever made with little chance of getting a sequel (Geist, Odama).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on August 11, 2010, 09:58:04 PM
I swear this topic has some kind of record for amount of derailments within the same topic.
Anyway I read through the Iwata Asks and it seems as though they focused around the simple controls and it seems as though they got it working pretty well. I think only Mop it up has the game preordered. So Mop it up what made you take a shot at this title while most of us are hesitent?
I've actually had it pre-ordered for a while as well, and I'm looking forward to playing it. Besides, I couldn't resist getting another $20 credit from Amazon.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on August 11, 2010, 10:10:51 PM
I swear this topic has some kind of record for amount of derailments within the same topic.
Anyway I read through the Iwata Asks and it seems as though they focused around the simple controls and it seems as though they got it working pretty well. I think only Mop it up has the game preordered. So Mop it up what made you take a shot at this title while most of us are hesitent?
I've actually had it pre-ordered for a while as well, and I'm looking forward to playing it. Besides, I couldn't resist getting another $20 credit from Amazon.
Don't tell me that! I can't resist the Amazon credits as well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 11, 2010, 10:17:06 PM
I fully admit that the only reason I pre-ordered this game is not just because of the $20 credit on Amazon, but also because I still had the $20 credit from Super Mario Galaxy 2 and didn't see anything else I wanted to spend it on. Otherwise, I would have waited until the reviews were out before making a decision.
That said, I still am hopeful of this game. I'm not one who has a set idea of what I think a Metroid game should be, so I don't mind if the usual formula is changed up. As much as I liked the Metroid Prime games, there have been three of those, and so I'm ready for something different. However, I haven't really been keeping up with the info on this game, so I don't know much about it outside of what I've gathered from the comments of others.
Also, I said this in a less trafficked thread, so I'll repeat it here. I've always felt that, out of every Nintendo character, Samus would be one of the best ones with which to develop a character. There's really nothing established about the character of Samus, we barely even know what she looks like outside of getting a glimpse at the end of each game, much less where she came from, how she came to be, and what are her motivations. This isn't like with Mario games, where a story isn't integral to the experience, or Zelda games, where the stories are really about the worlds rather than Link himself. The settings and goals of the games can mix well with giving some backstory and developing a hero. That's one reason I liked Fusion, it gave me something, not too much, not too little, that made Samus feel more human rather than as robotic as her appearance.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on August 11, 2010, 10:49:28 PM
I swear this topic has some kind of record for amount of derailments within the same topic.
Anyway I read through the Iwata Asks and it seems as though they focused around the simple controls and it seems as though they got it working pretty well. I think only Mop it up has the game preordered. So Mop it up what made you take a shot at this title while most of us are hesitent?
Nope. Preordered here, too. :)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Deguello on August 11, 2010, 11:09:23 PM
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How many of these were crazy good sellers?
Why would they have to be? I thought all Nintendo had to do was try to make new IP. Now it suddenly has to outsell Mario or something?
And Stratos, Magical Starsign was released in the U.S. I know, because I have a copy. Another Code was also released in the U.S. as Trace Memory.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: balzzzy on August 11, 2010, 11:11:51 PM
Preordered as well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on August 11, 2010, 11:22:20 PM
I found the Iwata Asks interview really interesting. It sounds like they have this really ambitious idea for this action game that seemlessly mixes with cinematics and it all sounds real cool... but I don't understand why this game has to be a Metroid game. It sounds more like they have this vision and they're going to mold Metroid to make it fit. But why can't they just make a new IP? It just doesn't sound like they set out to make a great Metroid game but rather they wanted to make something different and then they decided to use the Metroid IP for it.
Let's not forget that in 2002 or so Halo was a big deal, and Nintendo could have countered it by creating a new FPS IP, but instead of doing that they dusted off Metroid and shoe-horned that into an FPS and so that became Nintendo's answer to Halo even though it pissed off a lot of old fans (like myself). So when you say Nintendo should create a new IP instead of molding Metroid into this, I completely agree... but I'm still curious of how it will turn out. But it seems that Nintendo is more likely to remold their core franchises rather than create new franchises. This is also true with Zelda and Mario, for example in Wind Waker you had that cell shading deal which made it look like a cartoon and that angered a lot of people. Nintendo could have created an entirely new franchise to experiment with, but I think they realized using a core franchise helps with sales.
But Metroid is nowhere near as popular as Zelda or Mario is, so if the experiment fails and the end result is a mess then it doesn't matter as much (from Nintendo's perspective, I mean). I'm not happy that Metroid was chosen to be Nintendo's guinea pig to do experimenting on, but on the bright side its better than going an entire generation without any Metroid at all, which was how it was before the Prime series. And who knows, perhaps Nintendo will strike gold eventually, and if they do it will propel the Metroid franchise to heights it has never seen (or at least not since Super Metroid anyway).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 12, 2010, 01:46:30 AM
No matter how many times you claim Metroid Prime is in any way a response to Halo, it doesn't make it any more true. Forget for a second the fact that they don't play anything like each other; Prime came out way too soon after Halo for it to have had any impact on its development.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 12, 2010, 02:09:44 AM
I've never seen anyone claim that Metroid Prime was a response to Halo. Even if that weren't a ridiculous claim, I don't think that Nintendo lets the game projects from other developers influence the games that they make.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Deguello on August 12, 2010, 02:10:12 AM
Quote
It just doesn't sound like they set out to make a great Metroid game but rather they wanted to make something different and then they decided to use the Metroid IP for it.
If Nintendo never re-appropriated a game design into something else we'd never have Donkey Kong.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 12, 2010, 03:01:53 AM
Let's not forget that in 2002 or so Halo was a big deal, and Nintendo could have countered it by creating a new FPS IP, but instead of doing that they dusted off Metroid and shoe-horned that into an FPS and so that became Nintendo's answer to Halo even though it pissed off a lot of old fans (like myself).
The first gameplay footage for Metroid Prime showing that it was a First Person game was shown at Space World 2001, which took place in August. The first Halo game was released in November of 2001, which was 3 months after the first footage of Prime 1 was shown. Not to mention it was announced that Metroid Prime was going to be a First Person game months before the first gameplay footage was even shown.
So yeah, now you can stop saying Metroid Prime was made to be a Halo ripoff when the game was well into development long before anyone even knew what the hell Halo even was.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on August 12, 2010, 01:12:33 PM
IGN's top five things they love about Metroid Other M. They have the final build of the game and give their impressions. All positive to.
http://wii.ign.com/articles/111/1111851p1.html
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 12, 2010, 02:17:01 PM
Metroid Prime was not an answer to Halo. It was like "how do we bring Metroid into 3D" and over time it became clear that that was the way to do it. It got turned into Nintendo's Halo by non-Metroid fans who saw a game with a first person view and figured it had to be an FPS. And Nintendo didn't make their own FPS so Metroid Prime was kind of shoehorned into the role. Metroid Prime Hunters is Nintendo shoehorning Metroid into an FPS.
That list of new IP from Iwata-era Nintendo suffers from the problem that that new IP is all pretty damn lame. All second tier titles made by second tier teams. Pikmin was made by Miyamoto and EAD. It was Nintendo's A team working on a game that was supposed to be an A title, not some throwaway filler. It feels like the BIG stuff that is supposed to be one of the big flagship games of the year are always sequels. Nintendo doesn't seem to have the faith to put that kind of pressure on a new IP.
Sony releases LBP and it was clear from they way they positioned it that that was supposed to be a major release for the PS3 and that the goal for it to become a big franchise. They took that risk in banking on a new IP to have that role as a major title. They did that with Resistance and Infamous and Uncharted. Last gen they did that with God of War. Nintendo did that with the Wii series and before that Pikmin and that's like it for the last two gens. There is a strong reliance on the old franchises of which most of them are at least 20 years old.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Deguello on August 12, 2010, 05:06:19 PM
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All second tier titles made by second tier teams. Pikmin was made by Miyamoto and EAD.
Nintendogs was made by EAD too, and Miyamoto personally. And please don't go calling companies like Monolith Soft "second tier." Or the WarioWare guys, who made Rhythm Heaven. And Drill Dozer was made by the Pokemon team. Or their games. I mean Xenoblade may or may not be localized, but it got all 9's from Famitsu. I'd say that makes it more than "second tier," wouldn't you say? Maybe you oughta know more about the stuff you blankly dismiss.
Besides the quality of the games is immaterial to the point about new IP. Which Nintendo has certainly made an abundant amount of since 2002. Bringing up your personal quality preference just smells of "creative classification." you know like "when I said new IP, I meant new IP that I personally, will find appealing." Of course your opinion is important to yourself, but you can't just whip it out at the end as some kind of cure-all rebuttal when it wasn't part of your original complaint. You wanted Nintendo to make new IP. They have. Cut. Print.
And before you go sanctifying Sony for creating new franchises all the time, you might want to consider that the reason Sony does this is that they never really can get a series that's as popular as Mario or Zelda or sometimes even as popular as one of Nintendo's B-series like Endless Ocean. And watch what happens when they do get a quasi popular one. they run it into the ground until nobody cares anymore, like what happened with Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Daxter, and Socom.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 12, 2010, 07:02:01 PM
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Besides the quality of the games is immaterial to the point about new IP.
I think quality is the most important thing. Who gives two shits if anyone makes new IP or does anything innovative if the results aren't so hot? Whenever I say that I would like Nintendo, or any videogame company, to do something there is the assumption that I end the request with "... and make it good." Otherwise it's all technicalities. It's like your boss giving you a 1 cent raise and saying "well you asked for a raise so there you go."
For me personally it is rather a bummer that the Wii series and Nintendogs are games that I really don't care for. But I really wouldn't say they were designed with me as the target audience in the first place. Call it casuals, non-gamers, blue ocean or whatever but those are designed for a different audience then Metroid: Other M is. Every year Nintendo has a handful of big core games that are clearly designed to be THE games to get on the Wii. Those are just repeatedly the same franchises. So I look at EAD, IS, Retro or Sakamoto's team and their core game projects and it's all sequels it's like "come on, guys". This is just kind of stale.
Nintendo does not seem to want to take any risks in regards to their big core titles. They'll do it with the big casual title for the year. They'll do with the more minor titles (many of which stay in Japan). But it's not like you'll see Nintendo give the big Christmas "slot" to some completely brand new IP and push it like they would push a Mario title. Remember when Halo or Gears of War were brand new? They're weren't like some under-the-radar release that became a big hit. They were marketed and pushed since they were announced to be a big game and to have that responsibility and pressure to deliver as such. I haven't seen Nintendo do that with a new IP in a long time... except for casual stuff like Wii Sports.
Metroid: Other M is going to be one of the Wii's big releases this year. Now is that only because it is a familiar franchise? Would it be one of the major releases if it was the same thing but with a new IP? If it's what they hype it up as in the Iwata Asks I think it would be, if Nintendo gave it the same level of promotion.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: blackfootsteps on August 12, 2010, 07:34:04 PM
No matter how many times you claim Metroid Prime is in any way a response to Halo, it doesn't make it any more true. Forget for a second the fact that they don't play anything like each other; Prime came out way too soon after Halo for it to have had any impact on its development.
IIRC I'm pretty sure there was some media/gamer driven efforts to put Halo 2 and Prime 2 in a competitive frame prior to their respective releases. Prime 2's multiplayer mode was in part responsible together with the media obsession to find a Halo-killer.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Peachylala on August 12, 2010, 10:51:49 PM
No matter how many times you claim Metroid Prime is in any way a response to Halo, it doesn't make it any more true. Forget for a second the fact that they don't play anything like each other; Prime came out way too soon after Halo for it to have had any impact on its development.
IIRC I'm pretty sure there was some media/gamer driven efforts to put Halo 2 and Prime 2 in a competitive frame prior to their respective releases. Prime 2's multiplayer mode was in part responsible together with the media obsession to find a Halo-killer.
And this is an absolute fact, but it didn't really work out for Retro at all. MP2 is still great, the multiplayer is still a brown smear though.
Then Retro went 'oh **** it' and that's why MP3 is so awesome.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Deguello on August 13, 2010, 12:14:17 AM
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I think quality is the most important thing. Who gives two ****s if anyone makes new IP or does anything innovative if the results aren't so hot? Whenever I say that I would like Nintendo, or any videogame company, to do something there is the assumption that I end the request with "... and make it good." Otherwise it's all technicalities.
The problem here is we're just relying on your opinion on what's good or not, and considering some of these newer IPs are critical or financial successes, or both, then your individual idea of what "counts" is moot. Nintendo making that big list of new IPs isn't a "technicality," they're new IPs, just like you asked for.
Quote
It's like your boss giving you a 1 cent raise and saying "well you asked for a raise so there you go."
In this instance it's more like your boss giving you a $10 an hour raise, and you still continually demand a raise while refusing to cash your check.
Quote
So I look at EAD, IS, Retro or Sakamoto's team and their core game projects and it's all sequels it's like "come on, guys". This is just kind of stale.
Your opinion here is nice and all, but since these games routinely outsell and even outscore other new IPs, even on competing consoles, it's really immaterial. You are basically asking them to throw Mario, Zelda, Metroid, and Donkey Kong under a bus and just make new stuff. And while that's admirable in an artistic sense, it's terrible in terms of keeping your hardcore fans happy, and considering the sales of Mario and Zelda and such, that's a pretty big risk to take in the hopes they'll buy something completely unrelated. If you're getting tired of Mario and Zelda, fine. Either try some of Nintendo's newer IP (which you clearly haven't done since you use such blanket statements about them all), or sell your Wii and look elsewhere. But don't constantly whine about new IP and then ignore it when they provide it. You don't even give them credit for trying, so you'll never be pleased.
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But it's not like you'll see Nintendo give the big Christmas "slot" to some completely brand new IP and push it like they would push a Mario title.
So now it's "new IPs that personally appeal to me and have gigantic marketing campaigns during Christman." I think we're straying from the original intent of the complaint to get Nintendo to make new IPs in an artistic context and going into some kind of pointless chatter about marketing and other stuff that really shouldn't matter in the context. Why should it matter if it's got a giant marketing campaign or not? Are you saying you'll refuse to even acknowledge Nintendo's new IP until they blow $20 million on a marketing campaign directed specifically at you and your general male interest websites and TV channels? What kind of gamer are you, seriously?
Side note: I suppose we can add Sin and Punishment to the list of new Nintendo IPs. The first was an import title from 10 years ago, and it's more or less a new title (newer than some of the series being thrown around as exemplars of "new IP"), and it's in the core area, and got some pretty heavy marketing. But it probably won't be counted either, because it's merely a "new IP with core market appeal with big marketing" and not a "new IP with core market appeal with big marketing during the Q3 holiday period."
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Remember when Halo or Gears of War were brand new?
For those playing at home, I'll let you have a guess as to why Halo got such a big marketing push in 2001. Besides, these are boring stale franchises now, right? Why compare one big franchise, heavily marketed as the big Christmas title whenevr it rolls around to another just because it's "newer?"
It's because it was the first console game Microsoft published for the Xbox. Of course it was going to have big marketing, no matter what it was. And it was going to be an new IP too.
Quote
Metroid: Other M is going to be one of the Wii's big releases this year. Now is that only because it is a familiar franchise? Would it be one of the major releases if it was the same thing but with a new IP?
I think a big problem with this assessment is that firstly you are basing this complaint track off the sadly misguided notion that Other M was not a Metroid game at inception. That it was some kind of game about an armored space warrior going through a space station shooting aliens and then Nintendo's IP Synergy StrikeForce rappelled into the dev offices and forced the programmers at gunpoint to shoehorn in a completely unrelated IP like Metroid.
Secondly, is that you think Nintendo having a new IP that's nothing but a cheap knock off of one of their own existing series would be a "good thing." That's incredibly creatively bankrupt when you're just renaming characters in the same games.
I'll close with an example of when an arbitrarily new IP decision would have cost gamers the #1 fighting game series of all time (as far as sales anyway.) HAL was working on a fighting game called Dragon King. It was an interesting mechanic for a fighter that, instead of wearing your opponent's life bar down (though later sequels would include such modes), you merely throw them off the screen or stage. However, the prospects for this fighting game were pretty bleak considering the original characters were somewhat generic, stock characters. Despite the intriguing and innovative gameplay, the game really had no market pull and no amount of marketing could sell the concept with a generic IP. They then decided to use Nintendo's current stable of characters in a unique setting (a fighting game) as a replacement for these generic characters and Smash bros. was the result. The game sold gangbusters and has been ruling the fighting game genre ever since.
If Nintendo tried to do it with a new IP, it would have assuredly perished quickly and nobody would have ever remembered it, particularly not the "new IP" crowd.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on August 13, 2010, 01:19:15 AM
Blah blah blah blah blah blah BLAH.
This new Metroid game is gonna be hella cool. I can't wait for the 31st to hurry up and get here! Heh, you sure do like to argue, though, Deg. I do agree with a lot of Ian's points about Nintendo. As a loyal Nintendo follower since the very young age of THREE (go Atari Donkey Kong and Mario Bros.!), I've always known that Nintendo makes the very best video games... be it solely based around gameplay and play control. Always have, and always will. But over the years, and especially with the last couple of years, Nintendo is trying too hard to be creative. E3, this year, showed me that Nintendo is starting to be more lax... by bringing out creative but traditional games such as Kirby's Epic Yarn and DKC Returns -- two games I'm totally psyched about. But yes, they've been trying way too hard, and it seems they've forgotten what it was that made them so special. And that's unique IPs that people can connect with. Do I connect with Chibi-Robo (and yes, I've played it)? No, I do not. It's a dull IP (yes, opinion..duh) that's nowhere near as approachable as Mario, Link, DK, Samus, and the likes. This is what I think Ian's talking about. Not that they haven't given us new IPs, but that they haven't given us creative new IPs that can draw a "gamer" type audience in to them.
And that's a fault of trying too hard at this new blue ocean approach. Of course, this approach has definitely been successful for them... but it's caused Nintendo to be very unappealing to the people that got them were they are now... BORING. Don't make me bring up the travesties that were E3 '07 and '08... ugh. Don't get me wrong, I still love Nintendo from the very depths of my soul, but Ninty approaching the game industry the way they have is the very reason why I HAD to buy a PS3 this gen -- I wanted a more "core" gaming experience, and I'm definitely getting that with my PS3. But I do have a ton of "core" titles for the Wii, too. It's just... they all have a different feel to them that just doesn't connect the way the Nintendo games of yesteryear connected. Was Galaxy 2 an amazing game? Oh lord, absolutely. But I still feel like I had better and more memorable experiences with games like Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island. Maybe it's because I've gotten older now... I don't really know the answer to that.
Bottom line is that I want to see Nintendo approach both sides next-gen... and it can definitely be done. And ultimately, this is all that Ian is trying to say. And I agree whole-heartedly with him. Third parties need to start taking Nintendo serious, but in order to do this, Nintendo has got to approach them, asking what they'd like to see/have on their next console. It's as simple as that. If Nintendo does this, then that's a great start to mending severed ties from the last 14 years. And if E3 this year and the 3DS are any indication of this, then we're off to a very positive, great start.
Bring it, Nintendo. I dare you. :)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 13, 2010, 01:33:34 AM
We need a dedicated section of the forums for these arguments to make it easier to ignore them.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 13, 2010, 01:36:41 AM
We need a dedicated section of the forums for these arguments to make it easier to ignore them.
This. I'm beginning to become a bit tired of this talk that Nintendo have changed (they haven't, their fans have) or the whole "casual/core/hardcore" nonsense. The great stuff Caterkiller posts -- stuff that's actually about the game -- is becoming buried by this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on August 13, 2010, 02:18:25 AM
Heh, I'm sorry. I just felt like Ian was being ganged up on.
I'm really psyched about Metroid: Other M, though. After seeing the newest trailer (I have yet to see the new Iwata Asks -- which I'm sure would further my excitement), I can't wait to try out the new controls. Even having a D-pad only setup doesn't drag me down at all. I'm actually looking forward to all of the wall jumping I'm gonna be able to do. :D
I may watch the new Iwata Asks thing tomorrow during my break at work, but what all is discussed? If you don't care to summarize, that is. I'd be much appreciative. :)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Deguello on August 13, 2010, 02:38:24 AM
We need a dedicated section of the forums for these arguments to make it easier to ignore them.
I'd rather they just not come up at all. I wish this thread could just be about Metroid rather than whether or not Nintendo needs to make new IPs or something about third party support or whether Nintendo's still "cool" because they made a few games that get labeled "casual." It's boring and predictable, and really not worth discussing, but will come up at the drop of a hat for absolutely zero reason.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 13, 2010, 04:07:13 AM
It was like "how do we bring Metroid into 3D" and over time it became clear that that was the way to do it.
No it isn't. Mario and Zelda both made the transition to 3D without becoming FPS. This was unacceptable.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 13, 2010, 12:21:26 PM
Quote
No it isn't. Mario and Zelda both made the transition to 3D without becoming FPS. This was unacceptable.
Well Mario and Zelda don't have projectile based gameplay like Metroid does. And Metroid Prime isn't an FPS anyway. I love Metroid Prime so it's really hard for me to get in the mindset of someone who doesn't. It doesn't help that a lot of Metroid Prime backlash seemed to come either from non-Metroid fans who wanted it to play like Halo or people who never tried it at all. Metroid Prime to me was like the perfect way to bring Metroid into 3D. Hell I didn't even get any of the criticism of the controls.
Regarding new IP all I'm saying is this is the second Metroid game on the Wii and there have been three Mario platformers. That seems like overkill to me. No fan was going to complain if they only got one Metroid title on the Wii. When this title was revealed there was almost a "huh?" reaction. No one was really asking for a new Metroid at this point. If they want to give us one, that's great, but it was never really meeting any demand from fans or anything. We had our Metroid for this gen, we've had our Mario for this gen. Filling the "mandatory" sequels every gen is something Nintendo has to deal with and as a fan I want them to do it. But once they've done that they have the opportunity to get those teams working on something new and keep things fresh and make new franchises that will become the big sequels of tomorrow. But here they are giving us more sequels that we don't even need because we already got one for this system.
Metroid Other M sounds like this super cool game but it doesn't sound like it needs to be Metroid and the Wii doesn't need a new Metroid.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on August 13, 2010, 02:11:37 PM
I'd rather they just not come up at all. ... It's boring and predictable, and really not worth discussing, but will come up at the drop of a hat for absolutely zero reason.
Then don't respond. Ignore the post (smite it if you wish) and continue with the topic at hand.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on August 13, 2010, 02:42:15 PM
Metroid Prime is mechanically similar to 3D Zelda with the whole lock-on deal.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 13, 2010, 02:58:25 PM
Well Mario and Zelda don't have projectile based gameplay like Metroid does.
No offense, but that's complete bullshit. Zelda has numerous projectile attacks and it has never needed to be in first person in order to pull that off.
It doesn't help that a lot of Metroid Prime backlash seemed to come either from non-Metroid fans who wanted it to play like Halo or people who never tried it at all. Metroid Prime to me was like the perfect way to bring Metroid into 3D. Hell I didn't even get any of the criticism of the controls.
I strongly disagree, and you can't say I'm not a Metroid fan because Super Metroid was one of my favorite games of all time. But you know what? It wasn't an FPS. None of the original games were FPS. You could always see your character at all times, so you knew when there was an enemy behind you. Yes, those games were 2D but so were Zelda and Mario at one time but they didn't resort to first person.
Now, imagine if Mario and Zelda became first person games on the N64 when they made the leap to 3D and then from that point on Nintendo kept them that way and never changed it. How would you feel about that? You would feel somehwat like how the old school Metroid fans feel about the Prime games. I've played them, and I've beaten them... but that doesn't change the fact that I don't like the FPS aspect of it at all. I played the games because that's the way they were and I had no other choice, but I would have given anything if they would have been done the same way Mario and Zelda were.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 13, 2010, 03:02:39 PM
Fine. You can call it whatever you want, but its still in first person and that's what I hate about it. I'm a lifelong Metroid fan, but I seriously hate First Person games, so that has put me in a difficult position these last two generations. Its kinda like a Mario fan who hates platformers, except in my case Metroid didn't always be an FP(s) game. I became a fan before Metroid Prime came around, and I felt betrayed by that change.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 13, 2010, 03:46:51 PM
Fine. You can call it whatever you want, but its still in first person and that's what I hate about it. I'm a lifelong Metroid fan, but I seriously hate First Person games, so that has put me in a difficult position these last two generations. Its kinda like a Mario fan who hates platformers, except in my case Metroid didn't always be an FP(s) game. I became a fan before Metroid Prime came around, and I felt betrayed by that change.
By contrast, however, I just could not get into Metroid and Super Metroid (and it certainly wasn't for lack of trying. I think I've tried to play through that game from the beginning at least 4 times now). Metroid Prime is the game that made me interested in the series again, because it felt like a Sci-Fi Zelda (Zelda being my favorite Nintendo franchsie) with a high degree of immersion with the 1st person perspective. This placating and pandering to Super Metroid and Fusion fans feels alienating to me, and then you add the control issues on top of it. Yeah, I'm hoping this doesn't become the new standard for Metroid.
As for Nintendo and new IPs, the fact that Nintendo has only made one new core IP in well over a decade (Pikmin) disturbs me. Their only answer to the problem seems to be dragging yet another corpse from the NES to resurrect (Punch Out, Kid Icarus). I have high hopes for Monolith after their excellent Baten Kaitos games, but I'm tempering my enthusiam for Xenoblade for the moment. I enjoy Nintendo's common franchises (and typically love Zelda), but I'm really getting franchise fatigue from all these years of those franchises (especially Mario) getting trotted out every other year. I'd really like to see Mario/Metroid/Zelda take a break after Skyward Sword launches and give their teams some time to work on something I haven't been playing for years.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 13, 2010, 04:54:10 PM
Quote
Now, imagine if Mario and Zelda became first person games on the N64 when they made the leap to 3D and then from that point on Nintendo kept them that way and never changed it. How would you feel about that?
Well are these hypothetical games as good as Metroid Prime? I would probably not be so thrilled about Metroid Prime if it was just an okay game. But it's considered one of the best games ever. When I played it I didn't think "this is a pretty good game" I thought "this is as good as Super Metroid!" That's what Nintendo was really able to accomplish when they took their franchises into 3D. It wasn't like they just made decent transitions, the 3D versions were comparable to the 2D versions in quality (going by majority opinion anyway).
But there are fans that crap on 3D Mario as well. I myself don't care for toon-shaded Zelda. Metroid Prime always seemed like such an underdog though so I guess I'm more quick to defend it.
I do understand the concept of not liking a change in a series and being upset about it being permanent. If I look at it from that point of view I get the Metroid Prime hate.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 13, 2010, 05:26:57 PM
I've never been one to understand why people want just one game in each Nintendo series per system. I like the games so much that I don't want to have to wait until the next system is released before I get more. Not to mention that, more often than not, whenever a sequel is released on the same system, it is something quite different. Even if it isn't, it's such an improvement or refinement of the previous game (like Super Mario Galaxy 2) that it's still worthwhile.
Things have been like this since the days of the NES. Zelda II was pretty much a completely different game than the first, and to this day I still love it because of that. Super Mario Brothers 3 was huge compared to the original, and Super Mario Brothers 2 was something completely different that I enjoyed. I know some refuse to accept it as a Mario title, but as was stated before, Nintendo has re-appropriated plenty of games over the years. Majora's Mask may have been a "direct sequel" to Ocarina of Time but the only real similarity was using the same game engine. And of course, even more recently, we've gotten both a 3D and 2D Mario platformer all on one system.
What's great about Nintendo franchises is that they are so versatile, as long as fans don't fall into a mindset of what they should be. We can have our 3D and 2D Mario. We can have our first-person and side-scrolling Metroid. We can have our Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. In my eyes, things have never been better.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 13, 2010, 06:04:39 PM
I think it depends on the game/series. I can't really justify more than one Mario Kart per generation, for example.
Anyway, I just watched some English dubbed trailer for Other M which basically had Samus narrating the events of Metroid 1-3. Holy crap, the writing is terrible. I know the whole Metroid = baby thing has come up before, but actually hearing it in the trailer made me cringe... a lot. She says baby more than a Justin Bieber song. I'll probably enjoy the game, but goddamn that dialog....
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 13, 2010, 06:13:21 PM
Quote
I've never been one to understand why people want just one game in each Nintendo series per system. I like the games so much that I don't want to have to wait until the next system is released before I get more. Not to mention that, more often than not, whenever a sequel is released on the same system, it is something quite different. Even if it isn't, it's such an improvement or refinement of the previous game (like Super Mario Galaxy 2) that it's still worthwhile.
It's just the law of diminishing returns. I know that no franchise can maintain the same level of quality forever. My natural impatience wants these out bang, bang, bang so I can enjoy them sooner. But I know if that happens the series will burn out too fast. Deep down I know that I will enjoy the series over a longer period of time if the new entires are less frequent. Eventually the series will no longer be interesting or exciting. I want that to come along later rather than sooner. Having a good space between releases also makes each game seem more special. It's like how when you're a kid you want Christmas every day but as you get older you realize that that would make Christmas no longer special. I want a new entry in a Nintendo franchise to be a special occasion, not just another day at the office.
The thing is I have already noticed that I am less interested in their franchises as the releases have increased in frequency. There was a long period of time (too long actually) where there were THREE Metroid games. That was it. When Metroid Prime and Fusion were going to come out around the same time it was the biggest deal. But Metroid games are now frequent enough that a new release has less impact. We now have Metroid spinoffs too.
When a new Mario game is announced I don't care anymore unless it's a platformer and even then it's not as exciting. Having Mario doing other things used to be a fun novelty. Now it's a seasonal occurance. I know that as things are going in a few short years I won't give a **** at all anymore. It'll be "new Zelda!" and I'll be all "whatever, I've done Zelda."
If Nintendo spaces these releases out more then I know it will take longer for these franchises to get stale. And at the same time they free up their teams to release new IP which stands a chance at becoming as beloved as the existing franchises. So ten years from now if I'm sick of Metroid it won't matter as much because I've got Nintendo Franchise X that is still quite new and delivers a fresh, exciting experience like Metroid did when it was younger. It's like a good sports team over time replacing their aging stars with new prospects.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 13, 2010, 06:31:41 PM
I think it depends on the game/series. I can't really justify more than one Mario Kart per generation, for example.
Right, but that's kind of the point. It's just one of many Mario franchise games that have been released, almost all of which are different. If we got only one Mario game per system we'd never have gotten Mario Kart to begin with. Other Nintendo franchises can be this same way. We can have the Prime series as one part of the Metroid franchise, and some sort of side-scrolling Metroid as another part.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 13, 2010, 06:37:17 PM
By contrast, however, I just could not get into Metroid and Super Metroid (and it certainly wasn't for lack of trying. I think I've tried to play through that game from the beginning at least 4 times now). Metroid Prime is the game that made me interested in the series again, because it felt like a Sci-Fi Zelda (Zelda being my favorite Nintendo franchsie) with a high degree of immersion with the 1st person perspective. This placating and pandering to Super Metroid and Fusion fans feels alienating to me, and then you add the control issues on top of it. Yeah, I'm hoping this doesn't become the new standard for Metroid.
For the record, I'm not saying that I will like this new Metroid M either. Yeah, it is going to be 3rd person, but its a 3D game with what is essentially an NES controller so I have some doubts about how well that will work out. Nevertheless, I will keep an open mind and at least give it a shot before I pass judgement. I did play the Prime games, so its not like I'm judging them without ever having played them. Truth be told, they're okay... but like I said I'm not a fan of first person perspective. I want a game that captures the feel of Super Metroid but being in 3D. Being trapped inside of Samus' suit and viewing the world from inside her helmet makes me feel trapped and claustrophobic. I like the feeling of being open and being able to explore anyway I like.
Remember in Super Metroid how you could get to secret high places by performing hyper jumps and things like that? That was cool! But in First Person it just doesn't feel the same.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 13, 2010, 06:58:22 PM
As someone whose first experience with Metroid was Super Metroid on the VC, followed up a week later by Metroid Prime 3, I'd argue that the Prime games perfectly capture the feel of Super Metroid in 3D. I think the first person perspective accentuates the sense of isolation that is a hallmark of the series, and seeing the world through Samus' eyes adds a great feeling to the exploration.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on August 14, 2010, 02:06:49 PM
Check out this new trailer guys! I hope i'm not late with this.
http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=14256
I still think the speed boost looks kinda awkward but man that sky rocketing jump is so cool. I think this trailer is trying to show how the cinematic cut scenes blend into the story. Pretty awesome if you ask me.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 14, 2010, 06:00:46 PM
Sky Rocketing Jump = Shinespark
And it was in Super Metroid and Fusion. God, I missed that. Doesn't look at cool without the shadow effect but it's still so nice to see it back.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on August 14, 2010, 08:20:58 PM
Is that what it was called? As much as I love the move I never remembered the name.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on August 14, 2010, 08:47:01 PM
Oh, man. The new trailer is great. I love it. And kudos to Adrock for remembering the name of the move in Super Metroid for the "speed jump" as I use to call it way back then. The one move I could never get to work, though, and it's in the roll footage if you just let the title screen play out in Super Metroid, is the move where Samus can auto-heal herself. I was always able to create the rotating rings around her for her other "charge" type move, but could never figure out the auto-heal thing. Oh well.
Oh wait... did I just say that Super Metroid has an auto-heal move? OH SNAP.
Looks like Metroid: Other M wins again. :)
God, I can't wait to play this game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on August 14, 2010, 09:06:08 PM
That trailer was so cool. Come on Nintendo of America, publicize the hell out of that trailer on TV. The world needs to see how awesome Samus is.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 14, 2010, 09:33:23 PM
The one move I could never get to work, though, and it's in the roll footage if you just let the title screen play out in Super Metroid, is the move where Samus can auto-heal herself.
I never did either, I had to look it up. In order for it to work, you have to have less than 50 energy, and have 10 missiles, 10 super missiles, and 10 power bombs, in addition to the 1 power bomb you set to activate it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BeautifulShy on August 15, 2010, 02:07:21 AM
The one move I could never get to work, though, and it's in the roll footage if you just let the title screen play out in Super Metroid, is the move where Samus can auto-heal herself.
I never did either, I had to look it up. In order for it to work, you have to have less than 50 energy, and have 10 missiles, 10 super missiles, and 10 power bombs, in addition to the 1 power bomb you set to activate it.
I really never had to use the Crystal Flash technique. I usually am nearby a save station when I need to heal or I just farm in one area.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on August 15, 2010, 06:42:21 AM
I've seen it used to glitch through the super missile block leading to the area behind Spore Spawn to avoid the fight with that boss and save time. By now they are able to get a super missile into that block without using the crystal flash and it doesn't look nearly as cool on video.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on August 15, 2010, 09:10:23 AM
Oh, man. The new trailer is great. I love it. And kudos to Adrock for remembering the name of the move in Super Metroid for the "speed jump" as I use to call it way back then. The one move I could never get to work, though, and it's in the roll footage if you just let the title screen play out in Super Metroid, is the move where Samus can auto-heal herself. I was always able to create the rotating rings around her for her other "charge" type move, but could never figure out the auto-heal thing. Oh well.
Oh wait... did I just say that Super Metroid has an auto-heal move? OH SNAP.
The one move I could never get to work, though, and it's in the roll footage if you just let the title screen play out in Super Metroid, is the move where Samus can auto-heal herself.
I never did either, I had to look it up. In order for it to work, you have to have less than 50 energy, and have 10 missiles, 10 super missiles, and 10 power bombs, in addition to the 1 power bomb you set to activate it.
It looks like that's the way it works in Other: M as well: http://www.vooks.net/story-19453-Metroid-Other-M-hands-on-impressions.html
Quote
Another new feature is the capability to recharge your health and inventory. Should your energy be critically low (HP < 50 or so) or should your missile count be depleted, you simply hold 1 and tilt the Wii remote up to regenerate whichever item is nearly depleted first. But note that this only fills a small portion of energy (1 bar) or 10 missiles.
So, if this is correct, then the auto-heal feature is limited in scope and it's use has direct precedence in the Metroid series, but it doesn't look as if it's as difficult to pull it off.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on August 15, 2010, 02:32:31 PM
I like how her visor lights up to let you know serious business is about to happen
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Art_de_Cat on August 15, 2010, 03:10:26 PM
I was reading on another site where someone made a mind numbing revelation of the abbreviation of the title. You guys may have already seen it, but it still kinda floored me of it's obvoiusness.
Metroid: Other M is M: OM, and if you move the M in front of Other, you get MOther! Coincidence?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: balzzzy on August 15, 2010, 06:13:56 PM
I was reading on another site where someone made a mind numbing revelation of the abbreviation of the title. You guys may have already seen it, but it still kinda floored me of it's obvoiusness.
Metroid: Other M is M: OM, and if you move the M in front of Other, you get MOther! Coincidence?
The acronym for Method Other M would be MOM without rearranging any letters. The one part of the opening sequence that was really interesting was when you see a young blonde girl in the fetal position with this energy or something around her before the camera zooms around to her face. One can assume its Samus but Other M could mean anything.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on August 16, 2010, 02:54:47 PM
Samus is in a fetal position when the out-of-suit blast happens in Super Metroid (on death or crystal spark).
The ads talk about unreliable memories, I hope they won't stick some retarded background on Samus...
Anyway, I think it's best if I leave the thread, the US release is earlier than the PAL one so I want to avoid spoilers.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 16, 2010, 11:05:43 PM
I think most people realized that when the name was first mentioned. It's a really stupid title but oh well, a title doesn't make a game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NeoStar9X on August 19, 2010, 08:36:05 PM
Live action US commercial.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CZqO5Z5uxU
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 19, 2010, 09:38:52 PM
Holy CRAP that was cool. Officially psyched.
HOW IS THERE NOT A METROID MOVIE YET?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 19, 2010, 11:52:53 PM
Props on that commercial. That was excellent. Now they just need to play it somewhere that it matters.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on August 20, 2010, 12:10:45 AM
That's one hell of an awesome commercial. Now all they have to do is bombard the airwaves/fibres with it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 20, 2010, 04:38:53 AM
Be careful what you ask for. It might end up being directed by Uwe Boll.
I don't know who directed the Super Mario Bros. movie with Dennis Hopper, but that one was a pile of crap... just because it has the Mario name attached to it doesn't mean it has anything at all to do with Mario, or that its even worth watching. So maybe its for the best that a Metroid movie hasn't been made...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on August 20, 2010, 11:23:55 AM
You want a movie? Play the game because it has 2 hours worth of cutscenes. There.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on August 20, 2010, 12:01:07 PM
They were making a Metroid Movie years ago, after the first Prime came out. Got canned after a while.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 20, 2010, 12:08:53 PM
A Metroid movie would suck because videogame movies always suck. Talented directors think that vidoegames are beneath them so those films get assigned to the hacks who have stupid ideas. I think it's honestly that simple. Metroid: The Movie would be an embarassing mess full of bad CG and stupid dialog.
Metroid is really about isolation. To do it right you need the main character to more or less be alone for almost the whole film. Do you expect the sort of directors who work on videogame films to get that and, if they somehow do, do a good job?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 20, 2010, 12:19:59 PM
A Metroid movie would suck because videogame movies always suck. Talented directors think that vidoegames are beneath them so those films get assigned to the hacks who have stupid ideas. I think it's honestly that simple.
Hey, Silent Hill turned out alright and the director of that film certainly had a great deal of respect for the games. It wasn't a perfect movie, but it was still a pretty good adaptation of the first game. And, incidentally, the first half of the Silent Hill film is very similar to how a Metroid film would work, with an emphasis on isolation.
I do agree with you that a Metroid movie probably wouldn't turn out well, but it's not because it couldn't.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 20, 2010, 01:03:15 PM
Quote
I do agree with you that a Metroid movie probably wouldn't turn out well, but it's not because it couldn't.
Well I think a good Metroid movie is possible in theory. I just don't think it will happen so I'd rather that Metroid, and all Nintendo franchises in general, be left alone by the movie industry. Someday maybe videogame movies will improve in quality to the point where I could trust that a Metroid movie would turn out all right. But right now? No.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Marty on August 20, 2010, 02:46:57 PM
It's certainly possible that a movie based on the character and events of Metroid could be done well, but I think that the quintessential Metroid experience is something that is wholly unique to gaming, that unique sense of place, the feeling of isolation, and the joy of building up a map of your surroundings through exploration, are experiences which would be difficult to retain in the transition to film.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 20, 2010, 04:42:24 PM
A Metroid movie would be good if James Cameron directed it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 20, 2010, 05:14:32 PM
Just saw the commercial. I came. Twice.
Other M. Do. Want.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 20, 2010, 06:59:51 PM
If someone is going to write a story or plot for a videogame franchise that would make for a good movie, I'd rather seen it used in a game instead. Finding a way to implement story, plot, and character development into a game without resorting to cutscenes is what they should work toward.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on August 21, 2010, 02:14:22 AM
I do agree with you that a Metroid movie probably wouldn't turn out well, but it's not because it couldn't.
Well I think a good Metroid movie is possible in theory. I just don't think it will happen so I'd rather that Metroid, and all Nintendo franchises in general, be left alone by the movie industry. Someday maybe videogame movies will improve in quality to the point where I could trust that a Metroid movie would turn out all right. But right now? No.
You mean you wouldn't trust Uwe Boll to make Metroid? ;)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 21, 2010, 06:25:16 AM
I do agree with you that a Metroid movie probably wouldn't turn out well, but it's not because it couldn't.
Well I think a good Metroid movie is possible in theory. I just don't think it will happen so I'd rather that Metroid, and all Nintendo franchises in general, be left alone by the movie industry. Someday maybe videogame movies will improve in quality to the point where I could trust that a Metroid movie would turn out all right. But right now? No.
You mean you wouldn't trust Uwe Boll to make Metroid? ;)
I wouldn't trust that man to do a video on Youtube.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: balzzzy on August 21, 2010, 11:37:14 AM
Hearing that man's name makes me cringe at the very thought. Blizzard turned him down recently and Hideo Kojima said "Absolutely not! I don't know why Uwe Boll is even talking about this kind of thing. We've never talked to him. It's impossible that we'd ever do a movie with him." I would never want Rocky Morton, Annabel Jankel or Roland Joffé to direct another Nintendo film either. Quite frankly I don't know who I would feel confident about being capable of directing a video game film anymore these days. With all the sequel syndrome that happens. Even Mortal Kombat is getting re-done. I agree with Mop. Integrate everything without the use of cut scenes.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 21, 2010, 07:31:46 PM
I kind of feel like this game would have been perfect for 3DS. Full SNES layout and more importantly, slider controls.
I cannot wait to play this game! Ugh, so close....
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 21, 2010, 08:33:24 PM
If someone is going to write a story or plot for a videogame franchise that would make for a good movie, I'd rather seen it used in a game instead.
Why can't it be both?
Because then, either one or both of them would end up being not as good as it could be (probably the videogame version. See: every movie licence videogame ever).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 21, 2010, 08:47:09 PM
I sure hope Kraid shows up again in Metroid: Other M
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 21, 2010, 09:14:39 PM
I sure hope Kraid shows up again in Metroid: Other M
I'd appreciate it if we had all new Metroid bosses instead. Ridley, especially, is way overexposed in the series. Besides, this game has more than enough Super Metroid fanservice as it is.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 21, 2010, 09:50:45 PM
I sure hope Kraid shows up again in Metroid: Other M
I'd appreciate it if we had all new Metroid bosses instead. Ridley, especially, is way overexposed in the series. Besides, this game has more than enough Super Metroid fanservice as it is.
Kraid hasn't been visualized in a 3D metroid game yet, I'd hardly say he is even close to being overdone, he has been 2 whole Metroid games, Metroid 1 and Super Metroid (I guess you can count Metroid Zero Mission even though that is a remake). Why can't you have both? Classic villains returning along with new ones can be wonderful if handled correctly. Ridley is the bowser or Ganon of the Metroid series so I understand why he is in them even if I may not be a fan of Ridley.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on August 21, 2010, 10:19:52 PM
'Wonderful'? I allllllready killed them. When the bad guys keep coming back to life am I supposed to feel nostalgic and happy inside?
It's like winning the Special Zombie Olympics: even if you win, the retards keep coming after you. Eventually I'm not going to want to participate, not even for charity.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 21, 2010, 10:28:02 PM
'Wonderful'? I allllllready killed them. When the bad guys keep coming back to life am I supposed to feel nostalgic and happy inside?
It's like winning the Special Zombie Olympics: even if you win, the retards keep coming after you. Eventually I'm not going to want to participate, not even for charity.
The bad guys can be cloned. I take you hate the Mario games then? Villains always come back in them, or Zelda? Nostalgia mixed with fresh elements can be a very good experience. It is like when the Koopa Kids returned in Mario and Luigi, it was a fun moment for fans of the series. It is ridiculous that Kraid never made an appearance in any of the 3D games, while Ridley is in every single one of them besides Metroid 2. Not only that but Kraid has potential be an awesome and intimidating boss considering his size. Also it is a shame that one of the two bosses of the first Metroid has never had the chance to be put into 3D.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on August 21, 2010, 10:40:20 PM
You're just making my point. Sure there's cloning in science fiction and it's plausibly perfected in other places of the universe but Mario games? How does an anthropomorphized dino-turtle man do it in a world inhabited by primitive mushroom-men and turtles? Or in Zelda, which is supposedly in the middle ages long before genetics were studied? It's absurd.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 21, 2010, 10:42:11 PM
You're just making my point. Sure there's cloning in science fiction and it's plausibly perfected in other places of the universe but Mario games? How does an anthropomorphized dino-turtle man do it in a world inhabited by primitive mushroom-men and turtles? It's absurd.
I was referring to cloning in the Metroid series, it is a subject that has been approached before in it. My point, is that enemies from previous games returning aren't always a bad thing, even though you may be weeping that you killed a digital creature only to see them return later on.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 21, 2010, 10:43:30 PM
'Wonderful'? I allllllready killed them. When the bad guys keep coming back to life am I supposed to feel nostalgic and happy inside?
It's like winning the Special Zombie Olympics: even if you win, the retards keep coming after you. Eventually I'm not going to want to participate, not even for charity.
The bad guys can be cloned. I take you hate the Mario games then? Villains always come back in them, or Zelda? Nostalgia mixed with fresh elements can be a very good experience. It is like when the Koopa Kids returned in Mario and Luigi, it was a fun moment for fans of the series. It is ridiculous that Kraid never made an appearance in any of the 3D games, while Ridley is in every single one of them.
Here's the key difference, though: Mario, like Zelda for that matter, is a mockery of continuity. Each branch of that franchise is essentially its own independent universe that shares similar things. I am sick to death of certain enemies in the Mario universe (like Bowser and Bowser Jr.), but there's nothing really preventing them from being logical bosses in those games.
The Metroid universe, in the other hand, has had a fairly strong emphasis on continuity: each game takes place in a specified point in the timeline and events from each game generally matter in the game that follows. Given that, it takes a great deal of fun out of the experience knowing that there's no real accomplishment to killing someone like Ridley: he'll just get resurrected for the next game in the line, usually with no explanation for it. There's permanence to everything in the Metroid franchise except the enemies and it gets kind of tiring after a while in a franchise that's as pseudo-serious as Metroid. If they're not going to even try to pretend that there's meaning behind taking these bosses down, I'd prefer new bosses that can be perma-killed.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 21, 2010, 10:46:55 PM
'Wonderful'? I allllllready killed them. When the bad guys keep coming back to life am I supposed to feel nostalgic and happy inside?
It's like winning the Special Zombie Olympics: even if you win, the retards keep coming after you. Eventually I'm not going to want to participate, not even for charity.
The bad guys can be cloned. I take you hate the Mario games then? Villains always come back in them, or Zelda? Nostalgia mixed with fresh elements can be a very good experience. It is like when the Koopa Kids returned in Mario and Luigi, it was a fun moment for fans of the series. It is ridiculous that Kraid never made an appearance in any of the 3D games, while Ridley is in every single one of them.
Here's the key difference, though: Mario, like Zelda for that matter, is a mockery of continuity. Each branch of that franchise is essentially its own independent universe that shares similar things. I am sick to death of certain enemies in the Mario universe (like Bowser and Bowser Jr.), but there's nothing really preventing them from being logical bosses in those games.
The Metroid universe, in the other hand, has had a fairly strong emphasis on continuity: each game takes place in a specified point in the timeline and events from each game generally matter in the game that follows. Given that, it takes a great deal of fun out of the experience knowing that there's no real accomplishment to killing someone like Ridley: he'll just get resurrected for the next game in the line, usually with no explanation for it. There's permanence to everything in the Metroid franchise except the enemies and it gets kind of tiring after a while in a franchise that's as pseudo-serious as Metroid. If they're not going to even try to pretend that there's meaning behind taking these bosses down, I'd prefer new bosses that can be perma-killed.
The thing is that Ridley and Kraid in continuity make sense, the space pirates are lost without their leader Ridley which is why he is cloned. Kraid makes just as much sense since he was a high command space pirate too. In terms of continuity and how the Metroid world is layed out, it makes sense to have both return since they are important to the space pirates and they have the technology to clone them. It would in fact be against established canon to not include them.
Also I would argue that Kraid has untapped potential as a 3D boss fight, he is an interestingly designed character and could prove to be a memorable fight like he was in Super Metroid (though that fight was more memorable because of his size now really the battle itself). He is still my favorite Metroid villain, so I'd be overjoyed if he was brought back for Other M for an epic well designed boss battle. I never really found the bosses in the Prime games all that interesting besides a couple anyway (Sadly Kraid was cut from Metroid Prime, I would have loved to see what Retro would have done with him). Perhaps I'm a fan of him because he was a true villain back in the first Metroid game and killed me many times before I beat him.
BTW you two must really hate comics where the villains resurface when they were supposedly killed. :)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 21, 2010, 11:37:41 PM
'Wonderful'? I allllllready killed them. When the bad guys keep coming back to life am I supposed to feel nostalgic and happy inside?
It's like winning the Special Zombie Olympics: even if you win, the retards keep coming after you. Eventually I'm not going to want to participate, not even for charity.
The bad guys can be cloned. I take you hate the Mario games then? Villains always come back in them, or Zelda? Nostalgia mixed with fresh elements can be a very good experience. It is like when the Koopa Kids returned in Mario and Luigi, it was a fun moment for fans of the series. It is ridiculous that Kraid never made an appearance in any of the 3D games, while Ridley is in every single one of them.
Here's the key difference, though: Mario, like Zelda for that matter, is a mockery of continuity. Each branch of that franchise is essentially its own independent universe that shares similar things. I am sick to death of certain enemies in the Mario universe (like Bowser and Bowser Jr.), but there's nothing really preventing them from being logical bosses in those games.
The Metroid universe, in the other hand, has had a fairly strong emphasis on continuity: each game takes place in a specified point in the timeline and events from each game generally matter in the game that follows. Given that, it takes a great deal of fun out of the experience knowing that there's no real accomplishment to killing someone like Ridley: he'll just get resurrected for the next game in the line, usually with no explanation for it. There's permanence to everything in the Metroid franchise except the enemies and it gets kind of tiring after a while in a franchise that's as pseudo-serious as Metroid. If they're not going to even try to pretend that there's meaning behind taking these bosses down, I'd prefer new bosses that can be perma-killed.
Nintendo has said that there is no Mario canon, every game is basically independent of others. Besides, Mario never really kills any of the unique characters (for example, he never kills the Koopalings). Even Bowser was only resurrected thanks to Kamek's magic.
As for Zelda, it does have a strict continuity. Not sure what enemies you think are killed and resurrected. Link and Zelda are reincarnations of previous ones, and the games have explained how Ganon isn't really ever killed.
As for the Metroid series, that is again different. When Ridley was brought back in Metroid Prime, it was explained that it was basically a artificial version created by the Space Pirates.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: balzzzy on August 22, 2010, 12:31:32 AM
Quote
Also I would argue that Kraid has untapped potential as a 3D boss fight, he is an interestingly designed character and could prove to be a memorable fight like he was in Super Metroid (though that fight was more memorable because of his size now really the battle itself). He is still my favorite Metroid villain, so I'd be overjoyed if he was brought back for Other M for an epic well designed boss battle. I never really found the bosses in the Prime games all that interesting besides a couple anyway (Sadly Kraid was cut from Metroid Prime, I would have loved to see what Retro would have done with him). Perhaps I'm a fan of him because he was a true villain back in the first Metroid game and killed me many times before I beat him.
BTW, Kraid also made a cameo in Super Smash Bros Melee. And as for what Kraid would have looked like as done by Rare if they hadn`t had time constraints, here is a link (http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Kraid) just look on the right. But as for you wanting to include Kraid in another Metroid game because he was big in a game and killed you a lot when you were younger...that's great and all, but I have to agree with Brood and Bit Trip, new bosses please. The fact that I saw Ridley in an Other M trailer grasping Samus and fighting with her made me roll my eyes and hope that it was only a cut scene recapping Samus` past as part of the `story` and not a cut-scene leading up to another fight. Samus is on a Bottle Ship now. Kind of a dumb name but let`s hope that Ridley and Kraid aren`t interfering this round.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on August 22, 2010, 03:34:55 AM
The bad guys can be cloned. I take you hate the Mario games then?
This takes place just after Zebes got destroyed, while the Federation did manage to grab another creature of Ridley's species (Fusion has a Ridley in the freezer but there's no way that's the original Ridley as the Federation wouldn't have been able to recover the corpse or any genetic material before Zebes blew up and yes I know Sakamoto didn't think that through) I don't think the space pirates should be able to whip up a clone within a few days of the old guy dying.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on August 22, 2010, 06:38:06 AM
Huh, Kraid was supposed to be in Prime. I'm kinda surprised that they didn't just add him in during the Trilogy work. That would have been neat.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 22, 2010, 09:15:36 AM
BTW, Kraid also made a cameo in Super Smash Bros Melee. And as for what Kraid would have looked like as done by Rare if they hadn`t had time constraints...
Huh, Kraid was supposed to be in Prime. I'm kinda surprised that they didn't just add him in during the Trilogy work. That would have been neat.
George Lucas Presents Metroid Prime Trilogy. Dude, sometimes you just have to let it go. Metroid Prime was a near perfect game. Just adding Kraid for sh*ts and giggles would seriously mess up the game's pacing... maybe more than that stupid fetch quest at the end. And what if it sucked? The Saturn version of Symphony of the Night added 2 new areas and a new boss. They didn't add anything to the game and the new boss, The Skeleton King, was lame. The only reason anyone even cared was because Konami remixed Vampire Killer and Bloody Tears. I don't really think that's worth messing with a classic.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 23, 2010, 12:07:04 AM
I was at the movies tonight. They had a trailer for Other M before the movie. It was pretty good, too.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 23, 2010, 02:34:20 AM
I like a mixture of old and new enemies, especially if the returning enemies are seen in a new way. Kraid has yet to appear in a 3D Metroid game, and 3D space would completely change the method of fighting it. Though it was a bit easy to defeat in Super Metroid, as if I remember rightly, it took only four Super Missiles to beat it. I'd like to see it have strength match its size.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 23, 2010, 09:46:19 AM
Four super missiles isn't that easy if you are only supposed to have 5 by that point.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 23, 2010, 09:53:51 AM
Because Nintendo said it has a strict continuity? Ehh...
Besides the fact that they get to decide what is canon and they have confirmed there IS a canon, yes. Everything in Nintendo's Zelda games (meaning not counting the crappy CD-i games) can be explained in canon.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 23, 2010, 10:14:57 AM
Because Nintendo said it has a strict continuity? Ehh...
Besides the fact that they get to decide what is canon and they have confirmed there IS a canon, yes. Everything in Nintendo's Zelda games (meaning not counting the crappy CD-i games) can be explained in canon.
Given that Nintendo can't seem to make up its mind what the beginning of the canon is (first it was Link to the Past, then Ocarina of Time, then Minish Cap, and now Skyward Sword) and how fans had to make up wild theories to try to explain what Ocarina of Time did to the timeline, I've long since given up hope that anyone at Nintendo really cares about having an official timeline. I just try to enjoy each game for what it is and not even try these days to place it in that convoluted mess.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on August 23, 2010, 12:27:50 PM
The Zelda timeline is written on post-it notes for quick rearranging.
They could do Kraid in Other M if they do flashback battles but the game is taking place immediately after Super Metroid so reviving him by then would be weird.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 23, 2010, 01:22:13 PM
I find the repeat appearances of bosses in Nintendo games to be a rather annoying trend that I kind of tolerate at best. Like it doesn't ruin the game but it is weak. The fact that it's Bowser EVERY SINGLE TIME is pretty lame. I really really would prefer it if it was a different bad guy once in a while. With Zelda if there is the appearance of a different main enemy I now assume that Ganon is who is REALLY behind it all. It's become so predictable. Having Ridley appear again and again in Metroid irritates me. I don't think "Oh yeah, it's Ridley!" I think "Oh, here's that traditional Ridley appearance. Ho-hum."
I don't fight the same bosses in every Metal Gear Solid game. If I killed them, they're fucking dead. Vamp or Revolver Ocelot I do fight in more than one game because I didn't kill them so there is some coherent reason to fight them again.
I think the situation exists entirely because of fans that just ask for the same **** again and again. They don't even necessarily actually want the same exact thing they just don't really know how to ask for what they want. They thought this boss fight was awesome so they want it again but what they REALLY want is something that gives them that feeling again. Often the originality of the scenario was what gave them that feeling. You don't want Kraid you want something that makes you feel like you did when you fought Kraid in Super Metroid. If it's the same thing it won't give you that feeling, it'll just be a nostalgic thrill at best.
I think if Nintendo made a complete new Metroid where Samus is not even fighting the space pirates OR Metroids but it had the general Metroid-style gameplay it would still rock and fans would love it and they need to have the balls to try that kind of stuff. When you ask to see Kraid or Ripley yet again you're asking Nintendo to be complacent and play it safe and we're going to get inferior games from that.
I think the occasional re-appearance is okay. If Kraid is in this but Ridley is not and no other existing bosses are re-used then that's a pretty good blast-from-the-past moment for the fans with an otherwise unique and original Metroid to go with it. And we haven't had Kraid in 3D so it's a good choice. But Nintendo re-uses this stuff too much. In Zelda I want a vague reference to Ganon like a mural in a dungeon or something, not Ganon being the main bad guy every damn time.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 23, 2010, 01:27:41 PM
I don't mind repeat bosses as long as the battles play different each time. Ganon's almost always the final boss of Zelda, but it's a different battle each time. I guess it's the same way I feel about Nintendo's franchises: I'm fine with them keeping making sequels as long as they keep coming up with fresh ideas for them.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 23, 2010, 05:22:39 PM
Besides the fact that they get to decide what is canon and they have confirmed there IS a canon, yes. Everything in Nintendo's Zelda games (meaning not counting the crappy CD-i games) can be explained in canon.
Alright, calm down, chief. I don't know why you take everything so seriously around here. I was only commenting on Nintendo's loose definition of "canon." The series is littered with contradictions and retcons. I'm curious how the maidens in A Link to the Past are decedents of the sages in Ocarina of Time.... you know, without some serious interspecies erotica going on. I can't even imagine how painful that would be with a Goron.....
Seriously, though, just because a canon exists, doesn't make it strict. Ask any Star Wars fan how badly the new trilogy f*cked with the canon. Midi-chlorians... say what? The problem is that once you start messing with unplanned prequels, interquels and sequels, you run the risk of screwing something up, mostly because there's so much information to keep track of. I kind of get the feeling like Nintendo created a Zelda canon because fans demanded it when originally, they were just making games that be fun, not specifically thinking about where everything fits. I think the games are far more enjoyable without the canon because trying to connect the games into a coherent timeline is one big headache that isn't worth it because Nintendo never really took the time or effort to craft a consistent storyline.
I don't fight the same bosses in every Metal Gear Solid game. If I killed them, they're ****ing dead. Vamp or Revolver Ocelot I do fight in more than one game because I didn't kill them so there is some coherent reason to fight them again.
You kill Vamp like 9 times in Sons of Liberty and the big explanation in Guns of the Patriots is the same explanation for everything else that made no sense: nanomachines. Also, Grey Fox comes back in Metal Gear Solid (statute of limitations on spoilers for that one) and Big Boss officially dies at the END of Guns of the Patriots. I get your point, but MGS is a terrible example, dude.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 23, 2010, 05:55:48 PM
In Zelda I want a vague reference to Ganon like a mural in a dungeon or something, not Ganon being the main bad guy every damn time.
Out of the 15 Zelda games that have been released, Ganon has only been the villain of 6 of them. Well technically it's 7 but that's only if you combine both Oracle games together since each has a different final boss as a standalone game. Not to mention Aonuma has said Skyward Sword is going to be the new first Zelda on the timeline taking place before even Minish Cap, which means Ganon is not going to be the villain of Skyward Sword either.
So I don't see why some of you act like Ganon is the villain of every Zelda when in reality he's not even close.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on August 23, 2010, 06:09:39 PM
What thread is this again? I forgot. (seriously, I had to check the thread title just now).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 23, 2010, 06:31:28 PM
Quote
Seriously, though, just because a canon exists, doesn't make it strict. Ask any Star Wars fan how badly the new trilogy f*cked with the canon. Midi-chlorians... say what? The problem is that once you start messing with unplanned prequels, interquels and sequels, you run the risk of screwing something up, mostly because there's so much information to keep track of. I kind of get the feeling like Nintendo created a Zelda canon because fans demanded it when originally, they were just making games that be fun, not specifically thinking about where everything fits. I think the games are far more enjoyable without the canon because trying to connect the games into a coherent timeline is one big headache that isn't worth it because Nintendo never really took the time or effort to craft a consistent storyline.
I think canon works perfectly fine if those in charge of it aren't morons. The Star Wars prequels fucked up the canon because George Lucas is apparently too stupid to make sure his new movies fit in coherently with the existing films. I'm even excluding the expanded universe here. Same with Zelda. Even if you ignore the Capcom games the main Zelda series makes no sense. The creators are either too stupid or too lazy to do it right. I think lazy in that case. Fiction is more or less lying and a good liar doesn't contradict himself and expose himself as a liar.
In fact the Metroid series has traditionally been very good at ensuring things continue to make sense. It seems like Sakamoto considers that to be important (though he never once explained how the dead Ridley, Kraid and Motherbrain are alive in Super Metroid) and Retro obviously felt it was important to make sure Metroid Prime doesn't goof up the existing Metroid continuity. So we'll see where things go.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 23, 2010, 06:45:43 PM
The instruction manual for Super Metroid (and Nintendo Power at the time) stated that the Pirates resurrected Kraid, Ridley, and Mother Brain. I suppose they were cloned. In Ridley's case, he might've been some kind of android. Zero Mission and Metroid Prime have established the Ridley is readily rebuilt.
Ridley must've also been on SR-388 at some point, because the X cloned him too.
Metroid at least allows conceits for the reappearance of series villains.
As for Zelda, I'm gonna say this: energy ball tennis.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 23, 2010, 06:53:41 PM
The fact that it's Bowser EVERY SINGLE TIME is pretty lame.
In SMRPG and in Mario & Luigi, Bowser is not only not the main boss, but he even teams up with Mario.
But yeah, I do know what you mean. I don't think Nintendo acknowledges death as a finality. If you "kill" a character in battle, don't be surprised to find that same character later on. Like in M&L 3 you battle this worm thing in Bowser's stomach and that should have killed it, right? But then you have to go to it later for some reason so it doesn't actually die. Has any character ever died in any Nintendo game ever for real?
But this never really dying characters thing should work both ways. Remember in Metroid 3 those other hunters who team up with Samus? They all end up getting killed by Dark Samus (if I recall correctly), and at the end of the game one of the endings has Samus mourning over the death of her friends. But does it really have to be like that? If Ridley, Kraid, Mother Brain, and all the other bad guys we know and love come back again and again then why can't that be true for the good guys also?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 23, 2010, 06:55:07 PM
Metroid's continuity holds together better than Zelda's for one reason: there are fewer games in the series. The more things you tack on without being planned for, the likelier it is to not work right. I'm glad Nintendo takes the approach they take; they stick to canon as much as they can, but they don't let it change the way they make games. Gameplay>continuity.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 23, 2010, 07:25:46 PM
Even though I know the Prime games are set between Metroid 1 and 2, I don't like to count them in the same continuity, mostly because Super Metroid makes no mention of the Prime games. Zero Mission tried to somewhat link the main series and the Prime side-series then Corruption tried to unify the series further with the Aurora units, but ehh... they work better as separate continuities. They don't reference each other enough to make the series feel like a cohesive whole.
Super Metroid basically ended the series. "The last Metroid is in captivity..." As much as I liked Fusion, cloning is the cheapest plot coupon ever. It's hard to take canon seriously when it's so consistently rofl-stomped. Most of the older series are guilty of it. We've talk about Zelda. Castlevania set the rule that Dracula can only be resurrected every 100 years and yet we've seen how often that's been broken. The creators of Lords of Shadow just gave up and rebooted the franchise. Metal Gear is a total mess for anyone who's bothered to follow it though to Kojima and company's credit, they have at least tried.
The problem with videogames is that it was so reliant on technology. Storytelling was limited by what you could say and do with processing power and storage capacity. 20-25 years ago, they had like 4-8kB to work with. When Miyamoto created Zelda, he wasn't thinking "And there will be 5 prequels to this" (5 is a random number, don't think too hard about it). Nowadays, developers can do whatever they hell they want. There are no real limitations. If you f*ck up canon in a newer series, it's because you're stupid. Still, that's not necessarily a pass for developers older series. Ocarina of Time majorly retconned a series only 4 games deep and 1 (Link's Awakening) was totally inconsequential as it was a side story and 99% of it was a dream (let's not get into that). That's just terrible planning. Miyamoto wanted rock and fish people and forest children that don't age. That's great and everything from an artistic perspective.... but it f*cked everything up. Canon was tossed right out the window.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 23, 2010, 07:37:54 PM
The instruction manual for Super Metroid (and Nintendo Power at the time) stated that the Pirates resurrected Kraid, Ridley, and Mother Brain. I suppose they were cloned. In Ridley's case, he might've been some kind of android. Zero Mission and Metroid Prime have established the Ridley is readily rebuilt.
Zero Mission Ridley isn't rebuilt, you fight Ridley and a robot that looks vaguely like Ridley, but it seems the robot was on the ship already.
Ridley must've also been on SR-388 at some point, because the X cloned him too.
They had a frozen version of him on the station, that is what the x-parasites infected.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 23, 2010, 08:04:48 PM
No, I think it was a cloned version of Ridley that eventually melted, allowing the X to assume its globular form and float away. The ice just broke away at that point. I think it was always an X clone.
My interpretation only.
Still doesn't explain why Ridley was on SR-388, though.
Adrock, Zero Mission is the new canonical basis for the Metroid games. Since Ridley was the general of the Pirates at that point (or whatever), he or his CO must have been ordering replicants of him to be built before he attacked Zebes in the game. I think that Mecha-Ridley was an early, failed experiment, or prototype. By the time the Prime games come around (like two or three years later), the Pirates successfully created a robotic version of Ridley, and they sicked him on Samus.
Samus blew his **** up, and he went flying down a canyon. The Pirates must have recovered his body and either fixed him up (stronger, faster, better than he was before) or built a whole new improved model that appears in Corruption.
Since Zero Mission references Prime, it's canonical. Since the Prime games are canonical, and Corruption references Hunters, it's also canonical (sigh).
I'll be interested to see if there are any allusions to the Prime games in Other M.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 23, 2010, 08:07:52 PM
I'll be interested to see if there are any allusions to the Prime games in Other M.
I doubt it. This game is meant to appeal to Nintendo's Japanese fans, and they didn't (in a relative sense) like the Prime games. Besides, didn't the game's producer at one point say he didn't really consider the Prime games to be canonical (something that made me rather angry at the time)? I hope we do see some solid links to the Prime games, though.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 23, 2010, 08:10:02 PM
The only problem Adrock is that fans don't get to pick and choose what they want to be canon. Whoever owns the IP get to choose what is and isn't canon.
As for your logic about SM not mentioning Prime, then most prequels shouldn't count since they are usually not mentioned. The Prime games majorly reference the other games in the series. You are free to think what you want, I just hope you remember that all of the Metroid games are canon (including the Fusion is the last).
OOT didn't retcon anything, everything in the games before and after are still canon (retcon means it changes established canon).
brood, screw Sakamoto. He should not have been allowed to direct a Metroid game again. Luckily he has zero say over what is or isn't canon in Metroid.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 23, 2010, 08:13:31 PM
The only problem Adrock is that fans don't get to pick and choose what they want to be canon. Whoever owns the IP get to choose what is and isn't canon.
As for your logic about SM not mentioning Prime, then most prequels shouldn't count since they are usually not mentioned. The Prime games majorly reference the other games in the series. You are free to think what you want, I just hope you remember that all of the Metroid games are canon (including the Fusion is the last).
OOT didn't retcon anything, everything in the games before and after are still canon (retcon means it changes established canon).
brood, screw Sakamoto. He should not have been allowed to direct a Metroid game again. Luckily he has zero say over what is or isn't canon in Metroid.
The first and last paragraphs in that post contradict each other a bit.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 23, 2010, 08:17:01 PM
I'm convinced that Nintendo does give two craps about continuity in Zelda games. There were more allusions to Ocarina in Wind Waker than Twilight Princess. Arguably they're both sequels to that N64 title. Even Majora's Mask is a sequel to Ocarina. There has never been consistency, and I don't think there was ever meant to BE consistency.
I view the Zelda franchise as a series of re-interpretations of a single story. You might call it a perpetual mythology, changing with every telling.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 23, 2010, 08:34:23 PM
No, I think it was a cloned version of Ridley that eventually melted, allowing the X to assume its globular form and float away. The ice just broke away at that point. I think it was always an X clone.
I am pretty sure he was there before the X parasites reached that part of the station. There is also the fact that he radically changed his form after thawing. If he was an x parasite clone you would have expected him to already have a new form when he was frozen. There is also the question how he was thawed in the first place if he was frozen. If he was infected by cold-tolerant x parasites, that would explain him thawing out, but those don't appear until after being on the station for a while. If he was infected by the earlier, cold-intolerant x parasites he wouldn't have thawed.
Since Zero Mission references Prime, it's canonical. Since the Prime games are canonical, and Corruption references Hunters, it's also canonical (sigh).
Oh, I'm not debating whether Prime is canonical. I know it is. In fact, I've already stated this. I'm only pointing out how loose the canon is. Same with Zelda.
As for your logic about SM not mentioning Prime, then most prequels shouldn't count since they are usually not mentioned. The Prime games majorly reference the other games in the series. You are free to think what you want, I just hope you remember that all of the Metroid games are canon (including the Fusion is the last).
I kind of feel like Samus would have mentioned when radioactive goo corrupted her body and almost killed her..... Just saying....
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OOT didn't retcon anything, everything in the games before and after are still canon (retcon means it changes established canon).
Are you kidding me? ALL of the maidens, descendants of the sages (2 of which are a fish girl and a rock beast), in A Link to the Past are regular human/Hylian girls. The Zoras are still alive and well too (no evolutionary Zora descended Rito tribe here either), except they aren't humanoid bipedal fish creatures, they're green and orange fish monsters. Seriously, dude.....
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brood, screw Sakamoto. He should not have been allowed to direct a Metroid game again. Luckily he has zero say over what is or isn't canon in Metroid.
What is this? I don't even.....
So the man who co-created the series and has directed every main series entry starting with Metroid II has no say in what is series canon? I just....
/facepalm
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on August 23, 2010, 09:21:49 PM
I'm convinced that Nintendo does give two craps about continuity in Zelda games.
It's easy to have "continuity" when you have diverging timelines.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Spinnzilla on August 23, 2010, 10:36:37 PM
I'm curious as to why Nintendo just can't do something that follows Fusion. I wouldn't mind seeing the fusion suit returning.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on August 23, 2010, 10:43:28 PM
I think it would be cool to see a sequel that comes after Fusion where somewhere along the game, an event occurs that cures Samus of her X virus -- maybe by some form of other-worldly planetary radiation -- which in turn allows her to put the Power Suit back on. That'd be a really epic scene of events if designed properly.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 23, 2010, 10:59:51 PM
Are you kidding me? ALL of the maidens, descendants of the sages (2 of which are a fish girl and a rock beast), in A Link to the Past are regular human/Hylian girls.
Technically they are Hyrulian. The Hylians are the ancient civilization, during the OoT period. The race from LttP were called Hyrulians. They are descended from the Hylians, but they lost most of their powers.
The Zoras are still alive and well too (no evolutionary Zora descended Rito tribe here either), except they aren't humanoid bipedal fish creatures, they're green and orange fish monsters. Seriously, dude.....
The Gorons are also radically different in the earlier Zelda games, more like winged prairie dogs that turn to stone when attacked.
That being said, it is not entirely implausible that Zoras, Gorons, and Hyrulians interbred. Ruto seemed quite intent on doing exactly that, although it would probably be easier for Zoras than Gorons.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 23, 2010, 11:00:53 PM
I think it would be cool to see a sequel that comes after Fusion where somewhere along the game, an event occurs that cures Samus of her X virus -- maybe by some form of other-worldly planetary radiation -- which in turn allows her to put the Power Suit back on. That'd be a really epic scene of events if designed properly.
Doesn't she put the power suit back on after absorbing the Sa-X that was killed by the mega omega metroid?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 23, 2010, 11:01:31 PM
Since Zero Mission references Prime, it's canonical. Since the Prime games are canonical, and Corruption references Hunters, it's also canonical (sigh).
Oh, I'm not debating whether Prime is canonical. I know it is. In fact, I've already stated this. I'm only pointing out how loose the canon is. Same with Zelda.
As for your logic about SM not mentioning Prime, then most prequels shouldn't count since they are usually not mentioned. The Prime games majorly reference the other games in the series. You are free to think what you want, I just hope you remember that all of the Metroid games are canon (including the Fusion is the last).
I kind of feel like Samus would have mentioned when radioactive goo corrupted her body and almost killed her..... Just saying....
Quote
OOT didn't retcon anything, everything in the games before and after are still canon (retcon means it changes established canon).
Are you kidding me? ALL of the maidens, descendants of the sages (2 of which are a fish girl and a rock beast), in A Link to the Past are regular human/Hylian girls. The Zoras are still alive and well too (no evolutionary Zora descended Rito tribe here either), except they aren't humanoid bipedal fish creatures, they're green and orange fish monsters. Seriously, dude.....
Quote
brood, screw Sakamoto. He should not have been allowed to direct a Metroid game again. Luckily he has zero say over what is or isn't canon in Metroid.
What is this? I don't even.....
So the man who co-created the series and has directed every main series entry starting with Metroid II has no say in what is series canon? I just....
/facepalm
The company decides what is canon, not someone who just helped work on it. Besides, it's not even confirmed he said that.
As for Zelda canon, I suggest you check out a site like the Zelda Wiki where they clearly explain everything. You may disagree, but that doesn't change anything.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 23, 2010, 11:07:35 PM
The company decides what is canon, not someone who just helped work on it.
It's not like Iwata's making the decisions about what's canon and what's not; that's up to those in charge of making the games. Also, calling Sakamoto "someone who just helped work on" Metroid is like calling Miyamoto "someone who just helped work on" Zelda.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 23, 2010, 11:27:32 PM
I would consider the situation similar to comics. Stan Lee may have created Spider-Man, but it is Marvel (well, Disney now) who decide what is and isn't canon to Spider-Man, not Lee. It's the same here, it's what Nintendo as a company says is canon, not what Sakamoto does.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on August 23, 2010, 11:30:22 PM
I think it would be cool to see a sequel that comes after Fusion where somewhere along the game, an event occurs that cures Samus of her X virus -- maybe by some form of other-worldly planetary radiation -- which in turn allows her to put the Power Suit back on. That'd be a really epic scene of events if designed properly.
Doesn't she put the power suit back on after absorbing the Sa-X that was killed by the mega omega metroid?
Oh, that's right! I had completely forgotten about that. Well, then I pose this question... what if when Samus absorbed the SA-X, it of course gave her the Power Suit back, but let's say that the Power Suit it gave her was just the cloned SA-X Power Suit? This would technically have Samus still infected with the X virus... just now she would be in her regular form.. hmmm...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 23, 2010, 11:32:59 PM
I would consider the situation similar to comics. Stan Lee may have created Spider-Man, but it is Marvel (well, Disney now) who decide what is and isn't canon to Spider-Man, not Lee. It's the same here, it's what Nintendo as a company says is canon, not what Sakamoto does.
Yes, but what Sakamoto does *is* what Nintendo as a company says is canon.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 23, 2010, 11:34:33 PM
As for Zelda canon, I suggest you check out a site like the Zelda Wiki where they clearly explain everything. You may disagree, but that doesn't change anything.
I realize there is a canon. I just don't care because, as I've explained, I find it poorly constructed at best. I like playing the games treating each game independently. That's just how I do things. I don't care what you think. And I do disagree, but I never said it changed anything. I literally prepare the facepalm right before reading one of your posts.
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I would consider the situation similar to comics. Stan Lee may have created Spider-Man, but it is Marvel (well, Disney now) who decide what is and isn't canon to Spider-Man, not Lee. It's the same here, it's what Nintendo as a company says is canon, not what Sakamoto does.
As long as Sakamoto is directing the games, he's deciding what's canon.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 23, 2010, 11:49:04 PM
This is his first Metroid games in years. And no, he does not decide what is canon. Nintendo says the Prime games (which are the best in the series) are canon, so they are canon.
Why are we even discussing this? broodwars isn't even sure Sakamoto made that ridiculous claim. Even if true, let Sakamoto think whatever he wants. Nintendo considers the Prime games canon, so they are canon.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 23, 2010, 11:59:28 PM
Why are we even discussing this? broodwars isn't even sure Sakamoto made that ridiculous claim. Even if true, let Sakamoto think whatever he wants. Nintendo considers the Prime games canon, so they are canon.
Yeah, I've been looking into that quote, and apparently it originated from this (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/12/interview-metroid-other-m-producer-yoshio-sakamoto/). I'll save you the trouble of reading it all by quoting the relevant part:
Quote
Retro obviously produced the Metroid Prime series; very successful, very influential. Do you consider this a reboot of the series after Metroid Prime? Is this the direction for future Metroids or just another direction?
The games that I've been involved with in the Metroid series have been on the NES, GameBoy, Super NES and the GBA. I actually didn't have a lot of input on the Prime series. But when they're doing with Other M here, it's not so much a different universe, it's just a different part of the story. You can't say that there's no relation here; it's probably best to think of them as being in parallel in this world.
That seems to be the origin of all this, and honestly I have to wonder if something got lost in translation because I'm not even sure what that means. It doesn't sound like a disowning of the Prime games from the series, though. I think that's how IGN originally translated it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 24, 2010, 12:03:50 AM
It seems to me like he's just saying that Other M isn't tied in with the Prime games at all, which we pretty much already knew.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 24, 2010, 12:21:57 AM
Oh, that's right! I had completely forgotten about that. Well, then I pose this question... what if when Samus absorbed the SA-X, it of course gave her the Power Suit back, but let's say that the Power Suit it gave her was just the cloned SA-X Power Suit? This would technically have Samus still infected with the X virus... just now she would be in her regular form.. hmmm...
She isn't infected anymore, she had metroid DNA incorporated into her so she can eat x-parasites. All the x-parasites that had infected her were consumed by her body once she got the metroid DNA. That is why she was so sensitive to cold, metroids can't stand cold.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on August 24, 2010, 12:35:19 AM
I thought it's cause she's a woman.
M is for Move that thermostat to the right.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 24, 2010, 01:30:55 AM
I should probably be insulted by Zap, but I can't not applaud him for his absurdity.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on August 24, 2010, 01:45:45 AM
How is that absurd?
Move the thermostat to the right, won't you dear? What? Why don't I get up and get a blanket? I don't want to get up right now. You're already up, can't you just do it for me? Huh? Why do I always fight over the temperature? Oh I am sorry for being cold, and that you want me to shave every square every square inch of my back hair and never buy me any decent pajamas that AREN'T lingerie. Yeah, I was young and naive--to ever think you could change!
Now you see where the two hours of cutscenes will go?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Spinnzilla on August 24, 2010, 11:03:14 PM
Well, first couple of review scores are up.
Nintendo Power- 8.5 Famitsu- 9/9/8/9 (35/40) Game Informer (Aus)-8 [apparently, the US score will be very different]
Isn't an 8 on Game Informer pretty much an 11/10? :P And I'm pretty sure Famitsu gave the game a higher score than any of the prime trilogy, though I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Renny on August 24, 2010, 11:56:11 PM
And I'm pretty sure Famitsu gave the game a higher score than any of the prime trilogy, though I could be wrong.
Not a real big difference though. The first two both got 33/40, the third got 31/40. It would be like the difference between a game getting 9.3 and 9.5 basically.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 25, 2010, 12:11:14 AM
It at least indicates they feel the game is just as good as the Prime games, which I know some people wanted to hear.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Spinnzilla on August 25, 2010, 12:18:50 AM
Not a real big difference though. The first two both got 33/40, the third got 31/40. It would be like the difference between a game getting 9.3 and 9.5 basically.
Oh, that's higher than I originally thought. I thought the prime games got in the high twenty range. :P Curse my memory.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 25, 2010, 12:24:30 AM
I wouldn't put too much stock in any reviews from Famitsu, anyway. They lost their credibility a long time ago, and have only compounded it over the years. They can and have been bought in the past, particularly by Square-Enix. As for Nintendo Power, I know I shouldn't since they are under new management but I can't trust any scores from them. I spent too many years reading the magazine under the old guard, which made Famitsu look unbiased by comparison. Game Informer's a hard magazine to gauge: they've hated games I've liked, and I've hated games they've liked. I guess overall it evens out, so that 8.0 sounds pretty solid to me.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 25, 2010, 12:26:35 AM
I think Famitsu lost a lot of respect and credibility over the years due to allegations regarding their scores and how much publishers influence them (including telling Famitsu what kind of score they wanted). The most recent controversy was over Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker getting a 40/40. The controversy came because Famitsu items were collectible in the game, the owner of the magazine was part of the marketing campaign for the game, and partially because the game had been severely censored in Japan.
Not saying the claims are true, just pointing them out.
broodwars beat me to it, although I was typing my reply before he posted it (so I didn't know). I wouldn't know Nintendo Power though, they have on more than one occasion be much harder on first party games than other review outlets.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 25, 2010, 12:34:28 AM
I wouldn't know Nintendo Power though, they have on more than one occasion be much harder on first party games than other review outlets.
Like I said, it's just a personal thing with me: I grew up reading the incredibly biased Nintendo Power, and to me that's probably what they always will be. Maybe if Nintendo didn't own them I could shake that impression, but I can certainly understand the people who can look past its history.
I think Famitsu lost a lot of respect and credibility over the years due to allegations regarding their scores and how much publishers influence them (including telling Famitsu what kind of score they wanted). The most recent controversy was over Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker getting a 40/40. The controversy came because Famitsu items were collectible in the game, the owner of the magazine was part of the marketing campaign for the game, and partially because the game had been severely censored in Japan.
I wonder if that explains Resonance of Fate (End of Eternity)'s Famitsu scores as well, because if I remember correctly Famitsu gave it something in the low 30s and there are Famitsu items in that game. Man, I hated that game and it didn't score all that spectacularly over here either.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 25, 2010, 12:54:48 AM
Nintendo doesn't own Nintendo Power anymore, and they've been fairly critical of Nintendo at times in recent years. An 8.5 from modern Nintendo Power is a solid endorsement.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 25, 2010, 12:56:15 AM
Nintendo hasn't owned Nintendo Power in a couple of years. Nintendo sold the magazine to Future PLC (the same company that publishes other game magazines like Edge, Official Nintendo Magazine, and PlayStation: The Magazine, among others) in October 2007.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 25, 2010, 12:58:12 AM
Nintendo hasn't owned Nintendo Power in a couple of years. Nintendo sold the magazine to Future PLC (the same company that publishes other game magazines like Edge, Official Nintendo Magazine, and PlayStation: The Magazine, among others) in October 2007.
Cool. As far as I remembered from when this was announced a few years back, Nintendo had only fired the company who was handling the magazine and was handing it off to a different company. But alright, if they're truly independent now that's a different story (and the score's not all that far off from the Game Informer score). I might check them out sometime then.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 25, 2010, 05:38:22 AM
It would be really cool if there were an animated Metroid series on Adult Swim.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 25, 2010, 09:20:29 AM
As long as they don't draw ANY inspiration from the Mother Brain on Captain N: The Game Master.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 25, 2010, 12:19:25 PM
Quote
It at least indicates they feel the game is just as good as the Prime games, which I know some people wanted to hear.
Famitsu is Japanese though so they might carry somewhat of a bias towards Metroid Prime for being FPS-like and for being American. I want to see what an American reviewer who gave Metroid Prime GOTY style praise thinks of Other M.
Still we've had no negative reviews yet so that is a good thing.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Marty on August 25, 2010, 04:05:50 PM
I've just put down my preorder. With some reluctance it must be said. I still find their decision to hamper the game with what appears, to me at least, to be an unnecessarily awkward and finicky control scheme baffling. I certainly see the logic for a stripped down control scheme for nontraditional gamers or even for those who just prefer it, but to deny people the option of an alternate control scheme (ideally using the nunchuck) just seems stubborn. My fingers are so tightly crossed at this point that its cutting off the circulation.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 25, 2010, 04:17:18 PM
I've just put down my preorder. With some reluctance it must be said. I still find their decision to hamper the game with what appears, to me at least, to be an unnecessarily awkward and finicky control scheme baffling. I certainly see the logic for a stripped down control scheme for nontraditional gamers or even for those who just prefer it, but to deny people the option of an alternate control scheme (ideally using the nunchuck) just seems stubborn. My fingers are so tightly crossed at this point that its cutting off the circulation.
I may be at a similar point. As I've already articulated, I despise Nintendo's decision to deliberately throw aside playability in order to pander to Sakamoto's ego at the expense of people who prefer the analog stick for 3D movement. Still, my Wii hasn't had anything to play since Galaxy 2 (and otherwise wouldn't till Donkey Kong releases), my PS3's broken right now, my 360 is full of JRPGs to play right now, and the reviews we've had so far have been pretty respectable. I could use a change of pace, though I might wait for the game to hit Used first.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Marty on August 25, 2010, 04:32:51 PM
I despise Nintendo's decision to deliberately throw aside playability in order to pander to Sakamoto's ego at the expense of people who prefer the analog stick for 3D movement.
Absolutely. It certainly whiffs of arrogance (but given that I have preordered the game despite my concerns, perhaps they have every right to be arrogant).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 25, 2010, 05:00:15 PM
You know what's interesting? Years ago if Nintendo decided that they were going to use a d-pad for this game I would have trusted them on it. I would have given them the benefit of the doubt because they make such awesome games and the controls are always so perfect. If Nintendo wants to use the d-pad then they probably have a good reason for it and would design the game specifically around it so you would never want to use anything else.
But years of forced touchscreen and force waggle has changed my opinion. Nintendo went from the absolute kings of smooth, responsive controls to the posterboys of frustrating broken gimmick controls. And there's the problem. Is Nintendo going with d-pad controls because it is best for the game or because they want to push the Wiimote-as-an-NES-controller thing? Prior to the Wii and DS the answer was always "best for the game" but now you never know so I second guess them. I don't trust that any Nintendo game will control well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 25, 2010, 05:04:05 PM
Yoshio Sakamoto is a senior designer at Nintendo. I wouldn't say Nintendo is pandering anything. They pay him specifically to make these kinds of decisions. That's the way he envisioned the game. It's one thing to disagree; it's another to call it arrogant.
Honestly, Wii remote only control scheme seems like the best way to play this game by default even if it's still not ideal. From the videos I've seen, it looks like you play most of the game in 3rd person. Switching between the classic controller and Wii remote seems unwieldy. Something about jumping with the A button and shooting with the B trigger just seems extremely odd so I don't know if I'd like the nunchuck/Wii remote combo for this game.
I am eagerly awaiting this game. I haven't played a new Wii game since No More Heroes 2.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Marty on August 25, 2010, 05:18:33 PM
Honestly, Wii remote only control scheme seems like the best way to play this game by default even if it's still not ideal. From the videos I've seen, it looks like you play most of the game in 3rd person. Switching between the classic controller and Wii remote seems unwieldy. Something about jumping with the A button and shooting with the B trigger just seems extremely odd so I don't know if I'd like the nunchuck/Wii remote combo for this game.
I feel that having to constantly change your grip on the controller is a more unweildy setup. Using the nunchuck for movement within a 3d environment not only allows for smoother and more precise control of the character, but it also means that when you go into first person perspective, the IR camera in the Wii remote can be more easily directed at the screen.
While i can completely understand why they have decided to have this stripped down control method as the default control scheme, I just find it baffling that they are so reluctant to include a more modern and comfortable alternative.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 25, 2010, 05:20:41 PM
The way I would see the Nunchuck control scheme working would be something similar to that used in the Prime games: C to enter Morph Ball mode, B as the fire button, Z as the jump button, the control stick to handle movement, and + or A to toggle between 3rd and 1st person views. They could also use the control stick or even a quick tap of the control pad for the Dodge function.
*EDITed to account for the Jump and Dodge features I'd forgotten about.*
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 25, 2010, 05:22:59 PM
Has anyone read the reviews which are out? We've caught word of the scores which doesn't really tell us much, but what has been said of the controls?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Marty on August 25, 2010, 05:24:00 PM
The way I would see the Nunchuck control scheme working would be something similar to that used in the Prime games: C to drop bombs, Z or B as the fire button, the control stick to handle movement, and + to toggle between 3rd and 1st person views.
This would be ideal.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 25, 2010, 07:59:24 PM
I feel that having to constantly change your grip on the controller is a more unweildy setup.
Than having to put down a controller and pick up an entirely different one? I just don't see how the classic controller and Wii remote combo could be intuitive.
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Using the nunchuck for movement within a 3d environment not only allows for smoother and more precise control of the character, but it also means that when you go into first person perspective, the IR camera in the Wii remote can be more easily directed at the screen.
I would love to use the analog stick, especially since the Wii remote D-pad is far from Nintendo's best. I don't really like the idea using the B button to fire in a 3rd person game, Metroid most of all. Of course, if the Wii remote had more buttons....
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Marty on August 25, 2010, 08:05:55 PM
I feel that having to constantly change your grip on the controller is a more unweildy setup.
Than having to put down a controller and pick up an entirely different one? I just don't see how the classic controller and Wii remote combo could be intuitive.
I didn't mention the classic controller. I agree that would be a terrible idea.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 25, 2010, 08:08:44 PM
Honestly, Wii remote only control scheme seems like the best way to play this game by default even if it's still not ideal. From the videos I've seen, it looks like you play most of the game in 3rd person. Switching between the classic controller and Wii remote seems unwieldy. Something about jumping with the A button and shooting with the B trigger just seems extremely odd so I don't know if I'd like the nunchuck/Wii remote combo for this game.
I feel that having to constantly change your grip on the controller is a more unweildy setup....
What the hell is going on here? Where am I?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Marty on August 25, 2010, 08:22:34 PM
Ah. When I said Nintendo's control scheme was more unwieldy, i meant as opposed to the natural alternative, which would be to include nunchuck support. In retrospect I can see why you might think i was referring to your statement about the classic controller scheme being unwieldy.
The main points from your post i wanted to bring up were "Wii remote only control scheme seems like the best way to play this game by default" & "Something about jumping with the A button and shooting with the B trigger just seems extremely odd so I don't know if I'd like the nunchuck/Wii remote combo for this game." It just so happened that there was a bit in the middle talking about the classic controller.
I agree, however, switching between different controllers would be very unwieldy. As i can attest, having played Monster Hunter Tri.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: balzzzy on August 25, 2010, 08:29:19 PM
Apparently a game review company editor who has a copy of the game has beaten it. They're fielding questions but are only allowed to talk about the first two hours.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on August 25, 2010, 09:33:37 PM
Apparently a game review company editor who has a copy of the game has beaten it. They're fielding questions but are only allowed to talk about the first two hours.
So they can only talk about the opening cutscene so far?
ba dum ch
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 27, 2010, 01:21:20 AM
I just watched a couple of hours of this. This game freakin' awesome. holy crap
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 11:15:58 AM
I just watched a couple of hours of this. This game freakin' awesome. holy crap
Yeah, I have to admit that I finally allowed myself to watch some gameplay footage of this game over the last couple days, which led to me reluctantly putting down a pre-order for the game despite my issues with it. I'm just in the mood for that kind of game at this moment, and I'm finding Shadow Complex not up to the task.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 27, 2010, 11:19:25 AM
I just watched a couple of hours of this. This game freakin' awesome. holy crap
Yeah, I have to admit that I finally allowed myself to watch some gameplay footage of this game over the last couple days, which led to me reluctantly putting down a pre-order for the game despite my issues with it. I'm just in the mood for that kind of game at this moment, and I'm finding Shadow Complex not up to the task.
I just played the same 2 hours I watched, and it was still fuckin' awesome.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on August 27, 2010, 12:54:06 PM
Yeah, I posted basically the same reaction in another thread. The game looks good, the cutscene to gameplay ratio definitely favors the gameplay, and most of the voicework isn't bad at all...at least by game standards. The mood definitely seems right, and the game just really looks fun.
I haven't gotten my mittens on this game yet, but I can't wait until I do.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: FZeroBoyo on August 27, 2010, 01:21:52 PM
IGN released their review a few minutes ago, have more good things than bad, I'll leave it at that. Looks like I'll be picking this one up. ;)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 27, 2010, 01:28:46 PM
I just got the review copy yesterday (stupid UPS), but I sank almost four hours into the game between dinner and bedtime. I like it a lot--definately the prettiest game on the system. Lots of imagination here. Even the cutscenes aren't overlong or too frequent. My only complaint? Yeah, the controls. I'm still thinking about it too much, especially when using missiles. My review will be up on Sunday for launch!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on August 27, 2010, 01:33:25 PM
I just got the review copy yesterday (stupid UPS), but I sank almost four hours into the game between dinner and bedtime. I like it a lot--definately the prettiest game on the system. Lots of imagination here. Even the cutscenes aren't overlong or too frequent. My only complaint? Yeah, the controls. I'm still thinking about it too much, especially when using missiles. My review will be up on Sunday for launch!
Yeah...I imagine the controls will be the most common complaint. Still, all of this is good to hear. Have fun, and I look forward to reading the review!
I'm envious right now. :)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 01:36:33 PM
IGN released their review a few minutes ago, have more good things than bad, I'll leave it at that. Looks like I'll be picking this one up. ;)
Reading the review, it seems the two big complaints were pretty much what I thought they'd be: the stupidity of Samus' abilities being completely tied to Adam giving her the OK the entire game, and the controls in general. The camera issue is a new one to me, though. Bleh. The game still looks ok, but so far it definitely looks like Nintendo let Sakamoto have too much free reign on this project.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Marty on August 27, 2010, 01:45:56 PM
Having just seen a couple of reviews, I am now officially worried about this game. It's recieving great scores, but everything from the controls, to the level designs (lava and snow levels? really?), to the cutscenes, seem completely contrary to what i'm looking for in a Metroid game in 2010.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 01:49:41 PM
Destructoid's Review (http://www.destructoid.com/review-metroid-other-m-182449.phtml&mainnav=&track=featurebox): 6.5, surprisingly NOT reviewed by Jim Sterling.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: FZeroBoyo on August 27, 2010, 01:55:02 PM
Game Informer: 6.25 X-Play: 2/5
Wow, some critics love this title while others, namely G4, just tore it apart. The verdict on Destructoid is a "Rent" but I guess I'll hold out a little more until most of the critic reviews are in.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 02:13:52 PM
Wow, some critics love this title while others, namely G4, just tore it apart. The verdict on Destructoid is a "Rent" but I guess I'll hold out a little more until most of the critic reviews are in.
Wow, I just watched that Xplay review online, and it is scathing...though also perplexing since she gives the game a 2/5 despite having nothing good to say about the game in the review. I have to admit, though, that she makes a compelling argument as to how this game denigrates Samus as a female protagonist compared to her previous games (though were we really expecting anything else from Team Ninja?).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 27, 2010, 02:18:42 PM
IGN - 8.5 Gamespot - 8.5 Wired (Chris Kohler) - 9.0 Joystiq - 4.5/5 Eurogamer - 8 Giantbomb - 4/5 Nintendo Power - 8.5 GameFan Magazine - 9.5 N-Sider - No score but very positive review. Kotaku - No score but very positive review.
Wow, some critics love this title while others, namely G4, just tore it apart. The verdict on Destructoid is a "Rent" but I guess I'll hold out a little more until most of the critic reviews are in.
Wow, I just watched that Xplay review online, and it is scathing...though also perplexing since she gives the game a 2/5 despite having nothing good to say about the game in the review. I have to admit, though, that she makes a compelling argument as to how this game denigrates Samus as a female protagonist compared to her previous games (though were we really expecting anything else from Team Ninja?).
I took a look at that G4 review. Now I'm curious to know how many other female gamers will feel the same way. To be honest, the reviewer does have a very valid point, but it almost seems as if the review itself focuses a little too much on the story and character conceits that the reviewer didn't like rather than the gameplay itself.
I am curious to see how this is going to come across. In the video I've seen so far, I didn't think that Samus was being submissive to a "man," she was showing deference to her old CO... and, to my knowledge, they've never portrayed Samus as being rebellious against the Galatic Federation. There's no reason to expect her to go against the authority of a general unless there was some greater good at stake.
Also, I work with a number of people who were in the military. I've never served myself, but when you have someone who has spent a number of years in the service, well, sometimes old behavior habits and feelings about things are very hard to break. Unless there was a reason for someone not to respect an old CO, I could see any of them showing that deference.
Also, the game presents the ability authorization to be a measure taken to preserve the soldier's lives on the ship. Yes, perhaps it's kind of a dumb plot device, but it's better than having Samus mysteriously lose all of her abilities yet again because of some suit malfunction.
I've only seen about 1 hr of the game so far, so there's a very good chance my impressions will change.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 27, 2010, 03:52:38 PM
Admittedly, I think the game's portrayal of Samus erodes my respect for the character. Maybe she'll redeem herself when I play tonight, but so far she's coming off as robotic, apologetic, and sort of needy.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on August 27, 2010, 03:56:36 PM
Admittedly, I think the game's portrayal of Samus erodes my respect for the character.
That's really sad to hear. :(
I see that the 1Up review has been posted, and Justin Haywald has basically the same impression of the character. Oh, and unskippable cutscenes? Really, game? Bleh.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 03:57:59 PM
Admittedly, I think the game's portrayal of Samus erodes my respect for the character. Maybe she'll redeem herself when I play tonight, but so far she's coming off as robotic, apologetic, and sort of needy.
In other words, Samus has been reimagined to be the ideal for the modern Japanese audience (juding by what's popular in anime these days).
*rimshot*
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 27, 2010, 04:19:44 PM
All the reviews that are docking the game major points for the storyline should be considered joke reviews since it's been revealed by the Nsider reviewer that the cutscenes are skippable on future playthroughs.
Yes, forcing everyone to watch the cutscenes the first time can be annoying, but considering the game allows you to skip them on all future playthroughs, this does not justify some reviewers from giving the game low scores for something that becomes a non issue later on. And considering all the 2D Metroids (which Other M is based off of) main strength comes from replaying them over and over again because they encourage speed runs and even reward you for beating them really fast, this makes the storyline complaints even more foolish since they become non existent for a major part of what a lot of people play Metroid for.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on August 27, 2010, 04:27:53 PM
I don't know; a game is entertainment. IMHO, forcing people to sit through a cutscene without a compelling reason for doing so is just a bad design idea, especially when you don't give them the option to pause it. It's annoying and unnecessary.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 04:31:21 PM
All the reviews that are docking the game major points for the storyline should be considered joke reviews since it's been revealed by the Nsider reviewer that the cutscenes are skippable on future playthroughs.
Yes, forcing everyone to watch the cutscenes the first time can be annoying, but considering the game allows you to skip them on all future playthroughs, this does not justify some reviewers from giving the game low scores for something that becomes a non issue later on. And considering all the 2D Metroids (which Other M is based off of) main strength comes from replaying them over and over again because they encourage speed runs and even reward you for beating them really fast, this makes the storyline complaints even more foolish since they become non existent for a major part of what a lot of people play Metroid for.
Considering that most people maybe complete a game once and a game shouldn't have to validate itself on a second playthrough, I think it's completely valid to deduct points for a spectacularly poorly-told story (especially since this story has been a major focal point for the game in the ads). The ability to skip the cutscenes in a second playthrough doesn't dimish how bad the cutscenes are your first time through when the game is still new to you.
You can argue whether "story" is something you personally consider important in games, but don't knock other people's opinions as "joke reviews" just because they do consider story to be important.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on August 27, 2010, 04:44:35 PM
I guess it's not too surprising to be seeing such polarising reviews. People were evidently looking to get different experiences out of Metroid: Other M - depends what you like/want from the franchise. I'm personally not bothered by the structure of several disconnected worlds, just so long as each individual world is well thought out. Kohler on GameLife seemed to think so, which I'm pleased about.
Story-wise... well, I can't say I was ever expecting much from the plot. My only requirement is that the cutscenes are tolerable; I'm not anticipating any better than acceptable, but then that's not why I'm intrigued to play Other M.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 05:11:20 PM
The usual culprits: awkward controls for dealing with 3D movement, poor script, and poor voice acting.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 27, 2010, 05:34:41 PM
Yes I do understand that Nintendo has advertised a lot of the game on the story and that since the game requires everyone to watch it the first time, if someone find it bad they have the right to dock it some points. But the thing is the majority of the game is still mostly gameplay which all the good reviews have actually pointed out. A lot of the reviews basically say the game takes somewhere between 10-15 hours to complete depending on many items you collect on your first playthrough, with about 2 hours of this being made up of the storyline cutscenes.
In the case of G4's review, they basically do nothing but talk about how terrible the storyline is and barely even mention much about the gameplay. They basically call the game a bad game because it's story is bad, even though it's story makes up less then 1/5 of the actual game. This is why their review is nothing more then a joke to me since they're basically giving the game a low score over something that doesn't even come anywhere close to making up the majority of the actual game.
The usual culprits: awkward controls for dealing with 3D movement, poor script, and poor voice acting.
And yet they actually gave the game a good score because they said it's still a great game because the controls still work fine for the most part and the storyline while not the greatest, doesn't ruin the entire game. Unlike G4's review which did the complete opposite.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 05:40:23 PM
Yes I do understand that Nintendo has advertised a lot of the game on the story and that since the game requires everyone to watch it the first time, if In the case of G4's review, they basically do nothing but talk about how terrible the storyline is and barely even mention much about the gameplay. They basically call the game a bad game because it's story is bad, even though it's story makes up less then 1/5 of the actual game. This is why their review is nothing more then a joke to me since they're basically giving the game a low score over something that doesn't even come anywhere close to making up the majority of the actual game.
I think the G4 Reviewer (the Xplay review, in case you were wondering) was personally insulted by the story and what she found it did to Samus as a female character in gaming. If you hold the series in high regard because of the respect the series has shown Samus, and then you play a game like Other M that you feel destroys her character (in a game that's story-centric) then I can understand why that aspect of the game would dominate your impression of the game. Toss in gameplay that that you feel is hampered by an inferior, antiquated control scheme (for a 3D game) and exploration you as a reviewer find is arbitrary, and I completely understand where that reviewer is coming from and feel they justified the score.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 27, 2010, 05:41:50 PM
For most people Metroid games mean isolation and exploration, while Samus as a character isn't really more than a silent suit of power armor. While I definitely think that those characteristics were very important aspects in the series so far, I'm not going to naively think that the franchise will never try anything new. Some people might be satisfied with a few new worlds to explore in the traditional Metroid fashion, but personally I find nothing wrong with Nintendo trying to take the series in a slightly new direction.
If you want to be alone on an alien planet with nothing more than your Gravity Suit then you have Metroid, Metroid II, Super Metroid, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, and Metroid Prime 3. To a lesser extent you even have Metroid Fusion (which I personally loved; I have yet to find a more atmospheric game on a handheld console. Some of those SA-X segments were terrifying). In any case the release of Other M in no way reduces the quality of those seven games (just like how Metroid Prime Pinball didn't destroy the series either); it is simply trying to flesh out the story and the character a little more. Honestly, what else could they do with the franchise? Where else could they have gone? They been doing the isolation thing for decades.
Besides, many of the people playing Metroid today (in fact, I'm willing to bet that MOST of the people playing Metroid today) don't share the same expectations as you guys do. I'm one of them. I don't think giving Samus a voice is a bad idea. I WANT her to be an actual character because Mario and Link already play the silent protagonist. Samus actually has the potential to be a little more interesting.
People are always complaining that Nintendo never does anything new, and yet when they do people bitch some more. I understand if you legitimately dislike the story or the dialogue, but to complain simply because story and dialogue exist AT ALL is pointless. If you don't like it, ignore it. Don't play it. Problem solved.
PS. Sorry for the wall of text! It should also be noted that I have not yet played the game and I could end up hating it too :P My rant is probably a little too late since most people have moved on to complaining about other aspects of the game like the controls. I just started typing and couldn't stop myself...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 27, 2010, 05:54:27 PM
People have the right to complain about Nintendo trying something new if they don't do it well. They're not complaining that Nintendo tried something; they're complaining because trying isn't good enough if it's not done well.
I can't say I'm that surprised at this. Nintendo has proven in the past that they aren't capable of doing anything more than a bare bones story, with the possible exception of Intelligent Systems. I don't particularly care about that; I don't expect or even really want that from Nintendo, but when they try and fail it gets in the way of a good game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 27, 2010, 05:58:30 PM
I think the G4 Reviewer (the Xplay review, in case you were wondering) was personally insulted by the story and what she found it did to Samus as a female character in gaming. If you hold the series in high regard because of the respect the series has shown Samus, and then you play a game like Other M that you feel destroys her character (in a game that's story-centric) then I can understand why that aspect of the game would dominate your impression of the game. Toss in gameplay that that you feel is hampered by an inferior, antiquated control scheme (for a 3D game) and exploration you as a reviewer find is arbitrary, and I completely understand where that reviewer is coming from and feel they justified the score.
The thing is the reviewer at G4 barely even talked about this stuff. If these were major issues they had with the game then the reviewer should have talked about them more. Instead all they did was spend the majority of the review talking about how they hated the story and then just briefly mention the problems they had with the gameplay at the end. If someone didn't care much for how the story was and wanted to know about how the game played, the review would barely tell them anything about that except for some flaws that they don't even explain very well.
The whole point of reviews is to inform people about a game and the G4 review completely fails at that except telling that the story is crap. Which is why the review is a complete joke since the reviewer fails at actually reviewing the entire game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 27, 2010, 05:59:49 PM
How have some people gotten this game already? Is it through illegal/questionable means, or did some stores break the street date?
I took a look at that G4 review. Now I'm curious to know how many other female gamers will feel the same way.
I'll let you know after I play the game, though I usually try not to look into such things. I've long ago accepted that games are male-centric, so I don't get caught up in it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 06:03:03 PM
How have some people gotten this game already? Is it through illegal/questionable means, or did some stores break the street date?
Most of these sites are credible review sites who probably got their review copies a while ago. I'm guessing that the review embargo ended today around 12:00 PM EST, so everyone posted their reviews.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 27, 2010, 06:05:14 PM
I'm talking about people like DAaaMan64 and Sundoulos. I didn't think they were reviewers.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 06:06:58 PM
I'm talking about people like DAaaMan64 and Sundoulos. I didn't think they were reviewers.
From the sounds of at least one of them, some local mom & pop stores got the game in early and sold them early.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on August 27, 2010, 06:11:09 PM
I haven't acquired the game, but I've watched some videos that some people posted who did (I posted a link at the Dual Layered Disc topic in Talkback). The person who posted them appeared to have a legitimate copy, though I have no idea how they acquired it.
Any information that I've gotten about the game has been from watching the first 45 minutes or so of gameplay on the video and/or reading reviews.
I'll stress that even though I'm a bit disappointed that the game is getting knocked for poor storytelling and for nerfing Samus' cool persona, I'm excited about playing the game. The videos that I watched looked pretty awesome, and I think that I'm defintely going to enjoy Other M.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 27, 2010, 06:18:23 PM
Ah I see. I was skimming through all the new replies, I guess I misread what you said.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 27, 2010, 06:36:23 PM
I'm listening to the Weekend Confirmed crew talk about this game; they're being fairly critical of it, but oddly enough everyone thinks the story is done well, even if they don't like the choice of going into as much detail as they did. The general consensus is switching between third and first person views doesn't always work right.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 27, 2010, 06:37:13 PM
Okay, let me put it this way:
You know the Star Wars prequel trilogy basically RUINED Darth Vader because it made Anakin Skywalker a whiny little nerf-herder who was all emo and angsty?
This game does something similar, but not as bad (so far) to Samus. Her running internal monologue DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS her brave, warrior-like persona that we've come to know and love from previous games and, frankly, the gameplay portions of Other M.
"I was so young and naive, hurt and scared!" *blasts an alien in the face with a charge shot*
"Adam was like a father figure to me! Leaving the military was so hard!" *fires missiles at a tree-sauropod*
Kinda weaksauce.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 27, 2010, 06:43:09 PM
You know the Star Wars prequel trilogy basically RUINED Darth Vader because it made Anakin Skywalker a whiny little nerf-herder who was all emo and angsty?
This game does something similar, but not as bad (so far) to Samus. Her running internal monologue DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS her brave, warrior-like persona that we've come to know and love from previous games and, frankly, the gameplay portions of Other M.
"I was so young and naive, hurt and scared!" *blasts an alien in the face with a charge shot*
"Adam was like a father figure to me! Leaving the military was so hard!" *fires missiles at a tree-sauropod*
Kinda weaksauce.
Warriors have no personality. They are mindless drones who don't have feelings.
I'm sorry but Samus had no freaken persona in Metroid 1-3 and Prime 1-3. She was an avatar that fought, she had no depth, was just a means of the player to go from point A to point B shooting stuff. At the most there were just a couple scenes in those games that showed any kind of emotion, mainly in Super Metroid and the Prime games.
It gets repetitive seeing feminine heroines portrayed in games now days as lacking any female traits. A balance is needed and it looks like Sakamoto at least tried it, who knows how it turns out, I'd like to see a female review the game to add a voice to all the guy's reviewing it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 08:13:40 PM
Warriors have no personality. They are mindless drones who don't have feelings.
Judging by the quality of Samus' voice acting in this game and the way she clings to Adam's orders even if they get in the way of self-preservation, I guess you would considering her a warrior. ;)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 27, 2010, 08:20:57 PM
Warriors have no personality. They are mindless drones who don't have feelings.
Judging by the quality of Samus' voice acting in this game and the way she clings to Adam's orders even if they get in the way of self-preservation, I guess you would considering her a warrior. ;)
Lol I have to admit the orders allowing Samus to activate weapons is kind of silly. I have heard from others though the story is pretty well put together even if the voice acting is, well, not so hot
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on August 27, 2010, 08:33:37 PM
If you need to go to sleep, I'm streaming the BGM (http://kontek.net:8000/).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 27, 2010, 08:40:45 PM
I'm talking about people like DAaaMan64 and Sundoulos. I didn't think they were reviewers.
I live right around NOA, so I have ways to get games early.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 09:20:32 PM
Well, it didn't take G4 long to realize that they had a pretty fair controversy on their hands with their Other M review. They've already posted a follow-up video "talkabout (http://g4tv.com/videos/48335/Talkabout-Metroid-Other-M/)" with the reviewer that allows her to go into greater detail what she thought of the game than what a 3-minute mini-review allows. I'm watching it now, and it's pretty interesting IMO.
I also recommend the latest episode (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-122-invisible-walls/703747) of GameTrailers' Invisible Walls podcast, where they have a pretty good roundtable discussion of Other M.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 27, 2010, 10:14:37 PM
Well, it didn't take G4 long to realize that they had a pretty fair controversy on their hands with their Other M review. They've already posted a follow-up video "talkabout (http://g4tv.com/videos/48335/Talkabout-Metroid-Other-M/)" with the reviewer that allows her to go into greater detail what she thought of the game than what a 3-minute mini-review allows. I'm watching it now, and it's pretty interesting IMO.
I also recommend the latest episode (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-122-invisible-walls/703747) of GameTrailers' Invisible Walls podcast, where they have a pretty good roundtable discussion of Other M.
Very interesting. Sounds like they may not have a good balance in regards to who Samus is, a mixture of masculine and feminine traits. Still can't wait to play it, it sounds like the core game is pretty good even if it is (Like I expected) inferior to the Prime games.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 10:46:33 PM
Well, it didn't take G4 long to realize that they had a pretty fair controversy on their hands with their Other M review. They've already posted a follow-up video "talkabout (http://g4tv.com/videos/48335/Talkabout-Metroid-Other-M/)" with the reviewer that allows her to go into greater detail what she thought of the game than what a 3-minute mini-review allows. I'm watching it now, and it's pretty interesting IMO.
I also recommend the latest episode (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-122-invisible-walls/703747) of GameTrailers' Invisible Walls podcast, where they have a pretty good roundtable discussion of Other M.
Very interesting. Sounds like they may not have a good balance in regards to who Samus is, a mixture of masculine and feminine traits. Still can't wait to play it, it sounds like the core game is pretty good even if it is (Like I expected) inferior to the Prime games.
Sure. I just hope that wherever Metroid goes from here, Sakamoto is kept far, far away from it. I wasn't terribly fond of Metroid Fusion, and a lot of the stuff I'm seeing and hearing from this game echoes problems Fusion had as well. Many of the new problems with Other M can also be directly attributed to Sakamoto's stubborn design decisions, so I'd rather see the series either take a long hiatus or have Nintendo pick new blood to helm the series now. The Prime games showed that we can have fine Metroid games without him, and what can happen when Nintendo puts control of a franchise in the hands of people who are young and hungry to prove themselves.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Spinnzilla on August 27, 2010, 10:56:29 PM
Although, I haven't played it yet, one thing I would like to see more of in the next Metroid game, if it works correctly, is the new use of melee combat. It just looks fun and adds some flash to game's visuals. No reason not to have the more dynamic action and exploration in the next one.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 27, 2010, 10:59:10 PM
Jesus christ, Samus wasn't even a character before, at least we have something now. Plus, what I've played she seems cool enough, though we only really know about her your past, nothing about how she is now.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 27, 2010, 11:00:21 PM
Although, I haven't played it yet, one thing I would like to see more of in the next Metroid game, if it works correctly, is the new use of melee combat. It just looks fun and adds some flash to game's visuals. No reason not to have the more dynamic action and exploration in the next one.
Yeah, I'm curious how that might have played if Team Ninja wasn't constrained by the limits of the NES-style Wiimote and was allowed to use the Nunchuck or Classic Controller. Given the team's history with Ninja Gaiden, maybe we could have seen something more advanced or involved than just pressing a button to execute a finishing move (something like No More Heroes, perhaps). I wouldn't be opposed to seeing more interaction of that nature in future Metroid titles, as it always seemed kind of odd that Samus was basically limited to being a walking turret.
Of course, I've found it even more odd in this modern Metroid era that Samus' Power Suit basically just materializes and dematerializes in a flash of light around her Zero Suit, rather than something that has to be put together and disassembled. :confused; But this is a suit of armor that can turn into a ball...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Spinnzilla on August 27, 2010, 11:12:03 PM
I just think it's really strange that Nintendo lets two franchises, Metroid and Donkey Kong Country, that established themselves on the SNES be restricted to NES controller set up in their latest sequels.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on August 27, 2010, 11:14:42 PM
DKCR has Nunchuk controls.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Spinnzilla on August 27, 2010, 11:16:58 PM
I just think it's really strange that Nintendo lets two franchises, Metroid and Donkey Kong Country, that established themselves on the SNES be restricted to NES controller set up in their latest sequels.
:confused; Have we received confirmation yet that there will be no Classic Controller or Nunchuck support in DKCR as well? Given Retro's usual excellence in controls, that would be rather baffling.
EDIT: Yeah, that's more like it. I thought Retro had more class than to restrict the player's control options to just the NES-style Wiimote.
As for your question, I don't find it strange. Nintendo as a company defines itself as being about "what's old", not "what's new". That's especially been true of their work on Wii with their push to make a 25 year-old control scheme (the NES controller) the new hotness.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Spinnzilla on August 27, 2010, 11:25:10 PM
I just think it kind of goes directly against their original Wii selling point with having a new way to play. Not that I'm saying it's a bad thing. I really enjoyed NSMB Wii.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on August 27, 2010, 11:30:51 PM
Oh, whoops. Does it support both NES and Nunchuk controls?
Yes, but it wasn't shown at E3. The motion controls were kind of broken on the Remote+Nunchuk setup; hopefully, they'll fix it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 27, 2010, 11:32:26 PM
New Super Mario Bros. Wii could still be played new ways, blame Sakamoto for the lackluster controls since he forced Team Ninja to do it. We see the potential of what could have happened had Team Ninja been allowed to develop the game the way they wanted too.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: dack25 on August 27, 2010, 11:51:55 PM
I watched the G4 review and the extended talk back session and obviously the story got on people's nerves to the point where they really didn't talk about the strengths or flaws with the game. It doesn't help that you start the review with "holy crap this game sucks" mainly because they were disappointed about the story. I think the reviewer in the talk back session had a good point about Samus being timid despite the fact that she had saved the galaxy/world multiple times or when facing an enemy she's beaten multiple times. I give Nintendo credit for trying something different in terms of story telling with one of their games especially with another developer but maybe it backfired. G4/X-Play is a little weird sometimes too because I remember during the Prime 2 (which got like a 4 out of 5) review they felt the need to point out that it wasn't new or advanced enough to compete with the likes of San Andreas or Halo 2 or something like that.
At the end of the day renting the game is still an option.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on August 28, 2010, 01:51:26 AM
perplexing since she gives the game a 2/5 despite having nothing good to say about the game in the review.
Maybe they're like me and like to keep one score reserved for utterly broken or unfun games. No matter how much the game butchers Metroid there's no way it's down there with the worst.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: SixthAngel on August 28, 2010, 05:22:24 AM
I just think it's really strange that Nintendo lets two franchises, Metroid and Donkey Kong Country, that established themselves on the SNES be restricted to NES controller set up in their latest sequels.
But it isn't a NES controller because it uses the pointing ability to go first person.
This is exactly as I expected from reviewers. Some people love the game while others can't get over the fact that Samus finally has a voice and isn't exactly what they imagined.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on August 28, 2010, 10:10:09 AM
Well, I just canceled my preorder because of the Destructoid review and the G4TV discussion. Not because it's negative or anything (funnily enough Destructoid liked the voice acting) but because they mentioned that the progression structure is like Fusion with areas locked off by the story and only the final parts letting you go everywhere. I hate that kind of structure in a "Metrovania", it's why I didn't like Fusion, Corruption, Portrait of Ruin or Order of Ecclesia as much as their predecessors.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 28, 2010, 12:51:17 PM
because they mentioned that the progression structure is like Fusion with areas locked off by the story and only the final parts letting you go everywhere.
Every main series Metroid game does this. Fusion is just the first one that tied it specifically to the plot rather than strictly when a certain item is acquired. In Super Metroid, you couldn't go everywhere until close to the very end. There was no way to circumvent most strategically placed obstacles. Instead of Adam telling you that you were too weak or didn't have the equipment necessary to proceed, you just reached a door you couldn't open or an area that would literally kill you (i.e. Norfair) and turned around to find whatever it was that you needed.
I feel like the problem that a lot of people had was that they didn't like Adam telling you what you needed or where you needed to go. They liked wandering around until they found it or remembering a door they abandoned earlier that they could finally open. It didn't kill exploration, but it limited it. I guess I didn't really mind, but maybe I'm just easy to please.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on August 28, 2010, 01:07:30 PM
because they mentioned that the progression structure is like Fusion with areas locked off by the story and only the final parts letting you go everywhere.
Every main series Metroid game does this. Fusion is just the first one that tied it specifically to the plot rather than strictly when a certain item is acquired. In Super Metroid, you couldn't go everywhere until close to the very end. There was no way to circumvent most strategically placed obstacles. Instead of Adam telling you that you were too weak or didn't have the equipment necessary to proceed, you just reached a door you couldn't open or an area that would literally kill you (i.e. Norfair) and turned around to find whatever it was that you needed.
I feel like the problem that a lot of people had was that they didn't like Adam telling you what you needed or where you needed to go. They liked wandering around until they found it or remembering a door they abandoned earlier that they could finally open. It didn't kill exploration, but it limited it. I guess I didn't really mind, but maybe I'm just easy to please.
Context is critical to me. It's important that I must see the boundaries of the area I can reach myself and the interweaving structure of the better games makes the map feel larger. In PoR you can go anywhere in the sub-areas but there's only one way in or out. There's no chance of happening upon a new area when you don't expect it outside of the underdeveloped main castle.
Arbitrary story limitations on where I can go are a Zelda thing, not Metroid. Metroid is you vs the environment.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 28, 2010, 02:23:40 PM
Very interesting. Sounds like they may not have a good balance in regards to who Samus is, a mixture of masculine and feminine traits. Still can't wait to play it, it sounds like the core game is pretty good even if it is (Like I expected) inferior to the Prime games.
I don't really feel a need to compare it to the Metroid Prime games myself. It's similar to comparing them to Super Metroid: They have such different gameplay styles and conventions that I like the games for different reasons. They're simply different, so I can't really see them on a scale of better/worse.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Marty on August 28, 2010, 02:37:20 PM
Having now read most of the reviews currently available, I must say, I've mellowed slightly (much like the stages of grief, it would appear i've reached the stage of acceptance). I've now resigned myself to the fact that this game will not be a masterpiece of game design like Super Metroid, It will not be as immersive as Metroid Prime, and neither will it have the slick and responsive controls of Prime 3: Corruption. I may not like the direction that this game is taking the series, but if this game manages to attract enough attention and garner enough sales for the franchise to continue and perhaps even expand, then that can only be a good thing.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 28, 2010, 02:41:35 PM
I've now resigned myself to the fact that this game will not be a masterpiece of game design like Super Metroid, It will not be as immersive as Metroid Prime, and neither will it have the slick and responsive controls of Prime 3: Corruption.
Given the reviews we've seen you can probably be certain of that last one, but is it fair to claim a game you have never played will not be immersive or a masterpiece of game design? Are you even going to give it a chance or will you cling to the negative aspects of it so you can continue to criticize it?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NeoStar9X on August 28, 2010, 02:44:10 PM
Majority of the reviews are 8s or higher. G4 has always had horrible reviews. Not simply due to scores but how they've been written over time. The fact that nothing is really said about the game outside of story shows that. All games will have their outlier review scores. G4's in this case is to largely be ignored.
In the end their are simply opinions of these people.
I no longer care about reviews anyway. All I want to see is video of games to see how they look and play. I just want to know if controls are broken to the point it's unplayable. After that I buy what seems interesting and judge for myself. I do take into consideration what other normal players think of the game. Those that have taken the time to play the game and aren't rushing simply to get a review out in order to get website traffic or TV ratings. Those paid to do "reviews" are always suspect in my eyes. I'm likely to consider a person blogging their opinion over someone employed on a game site like IGN, Gamespot, etc.
I'm not a big Metroid fan (I have the first one on the NES or it might have been the Gameboy one, Metroid Prime 1 and 3). I was impressed by the videos of Other M. I like the direction Team Ninja has seemed to take things and I'm looking forward to playing it. I'm not looking for some masterpiece when it comes to the story. Just to be entertained and to have fun. That's really all I look for when it comes to games. If it can do that for me personally then job well done.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Marty on August 28, 2010, 02:56:13 PM
I've now resigned myself to the fact that this game will not be a masterpiece of game design like Super Metroid, It will not be as immersive as Metroid Prime, and neither will it have the slick and responsive controls of Prime 3: Corruption.
Given the reviews we've seen you can probably be certain of that last one, but is it fair to claim a game you have never played will not be immersive or a masterpiece of game design? Are you even going to give it a chance or will you cling to the negative aspects of it so you can continue to criticize it?
I suppose it is slightly presumptuous of me, given that i haven't played the game yet, but i think they're fair presumptions based on the reviews thus far. I'm certainly not 'clinging' to the games negative aspects, in fact as i said in my post, i've accepted that there are aspects of the game that i will not appreciate, and that's fine. Neither am i attempting to criticise the game, i'm simply stating my impressions based on what i've read or seen thus far.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 28, 2010, 03:09:43 PM
I see. I'm sorry if I sounded forceful, I was just wondering if you were going into the game with a negative view. I think that someone who has negative expectations for a game is more likely to not enjoy it, thereby fulfilling their perception. They are likely to focus on its faults instead of its high points.
I no longer care about reviews anyway. All I want to see is video of games to see how they look and play. I just want to know if controls are broken to the point it's unplayable.
I find I'm pretty similar to you. I'll read some reviews to get an idea of the content of a game, but I don't pay much mind to the opinions of it. After some of the controversies I've heard about paid reviewers, and also that they probably rush through games since they have so many to review, I can't trust their opinions as much as a regular player who's in it for no other reason than passion for gaming.
I'm also not really a Metroid fan, having never heard of the series until Samus's inclusion in Super Smash Brothers on Nintendo 64 and never playing one of the games until 2002. I think that's why I don't really have a preference with Metroid games: I've played them all now except Pinball and Hunters, and I've enjoyed all the ones released after Metroid II, especially because they tried new and different things.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Marty on August 28, 2010, 03:31:43 PM
I see. I'm sorry if I sounded forceful, I was just wondering if you were going into the game with a negative view. I think that someone who has negative expectations for a game is more likely to not enjoy it, thereby fulfilling their perception. They are likely to focus on its faults instead of its high points.
You didn't come across as forceful at all. In fact i agree, going into a game with negative expectations can skew a persons perception of a game. Unfortunately, when you're invested in a series and character (as I am with Metroid), it can be quite difficult to forgo your expectations. I would hope that by accepting that there are aspects that I won't like, I'm displaying realistic expectations, and hopefully this will enable me to enjoy the game for what is, and not what it could have been.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 28, 2010, 11:18:34 PM
I'm writing the review right now. Beat the game an hour ago.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 29, 2010, 02:41:37 AM
Just as an aside, with Other M coming out on Tuesday I decided to finally grit my teeth and try once again (seriously, this must be my 5th or 6th time now) to get through Super Metroid and finally beat it before that game comes out. I've never managed it before, as I usually quit around the point in the game where you get the Gravity Suit, just before dealing with Meridia. That's about the point where I get bored or frustrated and shut the game off to go on to something else. That's where I am about now, in fact, as I'm slogging my way through Meridia now. While having the CC Pro this time and fine-tuning the control layout to somewhat match Zero Mission has greatly helped make the game more enjoyable than it's been on previous attempts, I still don't get the whole "best game EVAR!" hype this game has acquired. Especially frustrating is that this game has a nasty habit of putting power-ups beyond two layers of upgrades, but you can only see one at first. So you'll see a spot where you can tell you need a certain upgrade later (like the speed boots), you come all the way back with that upgrade...and then you find out the developers decided to be jerks and added grapple points or water in the way just to laugh at you and make sure you know you wasted your time. And man, this game has to have the most counter-intuitive wall jump (by modern standards) I've ever seen. Half the time I manage it, it feels like pure luck even when I keep performing the same timed button commands.
I'm hoping to get this game knocked out by tomorrow night, and then finally I'll at least be able to say I finished this game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 29, 2010, 09:12:31 AM
I just beat the game. Details to come later, after some sleep.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 29, 2010, 11:13:00 AM
Just as an aside, with Other M coming out on Tuesday I decided to finally grit my teeth and try once again (seriously, this must be my 5th or 6th time now) to get through Super Metroid and finally beat it before that game comes out. I've never managed it before, as I usually quit around the point in the game where you get the Gravity Suit, just before dealing with Meridia. That's about the point where I get bored or frustrated and shut the game off to go on to something else. That's where I am about now, in fact, as I'm slogging my way through Meridia now. While having the CC Pro this time and fine-tuning the control layout to somewhat match Zero Mission has greatly helped make the game more enjoyable than it's been on previous attempts, I still don't get the whole "best game EVAR!" hype this game has acquired. Especially frustrating is that this game has a nasty habit of putting power-ups beyond two layers of upgrades, but you can only see one at first. So you'll see a spot where you can tell you need a certain upgrade later (like the speed boots), you come all the way back with that upgrade...and then you find out the developers decided to be jerks and added grapple points or water in the way just to laugh at you and make sure you know you wasted your time. And man, this game has to have the most counter-intuitive wall jump (by modern standards) I've ever seen. Half the time I manage it, it feels like pure luck even when I keep performing the same timed button commands.
I'm hoping to get this game knocked out by tomorrow night, and then finally I'll at least be able to say I finished this game.
The wall jump is about skill and timing. It doesn't do it for you the way modern games do. If you are unfamiliar with how old school games work then I'm not surprised you don't like it, because you're judging it through the lens of a modern gamer.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 29, 2010, 01:32:29 PM
The wall jump is about skill and timing. It doesn't do it for you the way modern games do. If you are unfamiliar with how old school games work then I'm not surprised you don't like it, because you're judging it through the lens of a modern gamer.
Like I said, I know how to execute the move (twirl-jump into a wall, let go of the D-pad, and then hit the D-pad in the opposite direction and hit the jump button): it just doesn't work most of the time I do it.
I'm currently extremely frustrated marching back and forth through Maridia. It's pretty obvious why this is usually where I stop playing, because I seem to be completely stuck and there is indication what you are supposed to do now. Every passage that heads towards the boss room is blocked off by purple doors I can't open, and I've scoured every room on my map with the X-ray visor. So far, as usual I can understand why this game was so beloved in its time. But I still can't understand why this game is so beloved now, to the point where every new Metroid game that comes out gets compared to it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 29, 2010, 03:03:04 PM
The wall jump is pretty finicky, it was not designed in an intuitive way. I figured out that first I must press the opposite direction of the wall, and then press the jump button, which is something I really have to think about when I execute it. If I can focus and resist the urge to press both buttons at once, then I can use it without a problem. Fortunately, the only time the move is ever needed is when the little creatures show it to you... and even that part might be skippable. I'm not sure, but I do know, every other area you can reach with it is either optional, or accessing an area before acquiring a necessary item.
I think the main reason why people like Super Metroid is because they like to figure things out for themselves, they want to explore the areas and find the secrets and the passageways and all that. And also simply because some prefer 2D games to 3D. I can understand why someone wouldn't appreciate that, especially in this age where games have a lot more direction.
I don't really remember encountering a lot of these "double upgrade" areas you speak of, but maybe I just didn't go exploring until after I had some good tools. I know of a couple, but these have a missile expansion or two after the first section, so you still get something out of it even if you can't get past the next part.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 29, 2010, 03:59:39 PM
Hah, I finally completed Super Metroid (5:30 completion time, 66% item collection rate), and although I think the events of the final battle are just as overblown in the fan community as the death of a certain flower girl, it is handled well. Man, that game would have been so much better if Maridia had just been completely removed. With that out of the way, I think I'm all set for Other M on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 29, 2010, 04:05:35 PM
You made pretty good time for your first run. Mine was seven hours with 67%.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on August 29, 2010, 05:19:31 PM
Hah, I finally completed Super Metroid (5:30 completion time, 66% item collection rate), and although I think the events of the final battle are just as overblown in the fan community as the death of a certain flower girl, it is handled well. Man, that game would have been so much better if Maridia had just been completely removed. With that out of the way, I think I'm all set for Other M on Tuesday.
You really didn't like the Maridia area? Ah, man... that's probably my favorite area of the entire game. I just love the overall feel of isolation of that area (though, yes, the entire world makes you feel isolated), and I feel like the music really adds to it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 29, 2010, 05:25:19 PM
Hah, I finally completed Super Metroid (5:30 completion time, 66% item collection rate), and although I think the events of the final battle are just as overblown in the fan community as the death of a certain flower girl, it is handled well. Man, that game would have been so much better if Maridia had just been completely removed. With that out of the way, I think I'm all set for Other M on Tuesday.
You really didn't like the Maridia area? Ah, man... that's probably my favorite area of the entire game. I just love the overall feel of isolation of that area (though, yes, the entire world makes you feel isolated), and I feel like the music really adds to it.
Maridia has two big things going against it: first, it's an underwater level, and those rarely go well in games (especially if you happen to get your feet stuck in the quicksand in certain areas, where it can become tedious and frustrating to free yourself from). It's also built like a huge maze of interconnected rooms, unlike the other areas that are fairly straightforward, where often the solution comes down to combing for bomb-able floors. The pacing of the game just slams right into a wall with Maridia, and it doesn't really pick up again until you reach Ridley's section of Norfair.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 29, 2010, 05:26:01 PM
Fortunately, the only time the move is ever needed is when the little creatures show it to you... and even that part might be skippable. I'm not sure, but I do know, every other area you can reach with it is either optional, or accessing an area before acquiring a necessary item.
You can skip the etecoon room as well (it gets you some optional tanks), or you can wait to do it until you have the space jump (which is what I do). The only other place it is really somewhat needed is the vertical passage to get to the spring ball, and you can either do that once you have the space jump or exploit a glitch to jump through a ceiling.
As you said, it is also necessary for a couple of sequence breaks, namely getting the wave beam before you get the grappling beam, getting the super missile before you beat spore spawn, and beating kraid before you get the high jump boots (I haven't done the last, it requires an extremely precise wall jump off a one-tile-high platform). It is also pretty much necessary for beating Dragoon before you get the grappling beam. Although it is probably possible to do that using the ice beam it makes things much, much harder.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 29, 2010, 05:32:32 PM
Maridia has two big things going against it: first, it's an underwater level, and those rarely go well in games (especially if you happen to get your feet stuck in the quicksand in certain areas, where it can become tedious and frustrating to free yourself from).
That's the point, don't get your feet stuck in the sand ;) We have ice beams for a reason.
It's also built like a huge maze of interconnected rooms, unlike the other areas that are fairly straightforward, where often the solution comes down to combing for bomb-able floors. The pacing of the game just slams right into a wall with Maridia, and it doesn't really pick up again until you reach Ridley's section of Norfair.
Yes, it is a maze, although I don't think any more so than upper Norfair (actually probably less so because it seals off some doors that could get you going in the wrong direction). Also, the only areas I can think of that require you to deal with bombable floors is the room leading up to botwain (the eel boss), which you should notice just by shooting since the floors are also destroyed by beams, and the lower-right floor in the big room with the tube, which is optional. I would say it has less of that than upper norfair, and far less than the wrecked ship.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 29, 2010, 05:36:23 PM
I don't understand your criticism. I've played and beaten Super Metroid probably a dozen times and never got frustrated or quit the game. I understand what you're saying about the tricky jumps, but it never made me throw the controller down in frustration. My advice is for you to go to GameFAQS or something simialr and find out where you need to go and how to pull it all off. Once you've found everything the first time its kinda like riding a bicycle because you'll never forget. I haven't played it in a long time, but I'm sure if I did now I would be able to find all the hidden powerups without a problem. I think the first time I played I might have had the help of Nintendo Power to get me through.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 29, 2010, 05:38:50 PM
BTW, you say you have a problem with the water level? One thing that comes to mind immediately is I remember there's a part where you're in a glass tunnel underwater and I remember you can shoot it with a missile (or perhaps its a super missile) and that will shatter the tube and then you can get to areas there where you normally couldn't. I don't know if you already knew that or not, but I hope it helps.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 29, 2010, 05:41:37 PM
BTW, you say you have a problem with the water level? One thing that comes to mind immediately is I remember there's a part where you're in a glass tunnel underwater and I remember you can shoot it with a missile (or perhaps its a super missile) and that will shatter the tube and then you can get to areas there where you normally couldn't. I don't know if you already knew that or not, but I hope it helps.
Yeah, I beat the game earlier today. Besides, that part of Super Metroid has been repeated in the Metroid games that followed it, so I knew to do it already.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 29, 2010, 05:54:01 PM
I can't believe all you cynics are not judging this game without even playing. You guys suck.
This is an new, all different, Metroid that features the most story development of any Metroid game ever. The gameplay has taken an all new direction, focusing on action and combat. Stop being such assholes about new directions and materials and JUST PLAY THE GAME YOURSELF.
It has great cinema, excellent graphics, awesome fun parts, AND TONS OF SURPRISES. Its all new and its great. It might have some frustrations, but give me brake, play it. Its worth your time.
I'd say, overall, I loved the game. I got pissed off at it, there are some unfair parts but, its just a good game. I mean, I beat it voluntarily in less than 3 days. haha
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 29, 2010, 06:21:44 PM
I can't believe all you cynics are not judging this game without even playing. You guys suck.
This is an new, all different, Metroid that features the most story development of any Metroid game ever. The gameplay has taken an all new direction, focusing on action and combat. Stop being such assholes about new directions and materials and JUST PLAY THE GAME YOURSELF.
It has great cinema, excellent graphics, awesome fun parts, AND TONS OF SURPRISES. Its all new and its great. It might have some frustrations, but give me brake, play it. Its worth your time.
I'd say, overall, I loved the game. I got pissed off at it, there are some unfair parts but, its just a good game. I mean, I beat it voluntarily in less than 3 days. haha
Uh, last time I checked, no one here (not even me, and other than issues with the lack of choice with the controls I haven't really said much on the game) was pre-judging the game, just commenting on reviews and what seems to be the general consensus of them.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 29, 2010, 08:39:15 PM
and although I think the events of the final battle are just as overblown in the fan community as the death of a certain flower girl, it is handled well.
Dude, it was cool as sh*t in 1994. You had to be there.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 29, 2010, 08:45:15 PM
and although I think the events of the final battle are just as overblown in the fan community as the death of a certain flower girl, it is handled well.
Dude, it was cool as sh*t in 1994. You had to be there.
*shrugs*
IMO, it probably would have meant more if we had seen the Baby Metroid more in the rest of the game, much like what they did with the SA-X in Metroid Fusion. Most people probably never played Metroid 2, so it's already a little odd to care about the little thing starting off in Super Metroid. Then you literally see nothing about the Baby metroid till the very end of the game, and then suddenly I'm expected to care about its fate (especially after it had already attacked me). It's a cool moment in context, but people really blow it out of proportion and I think it could have been woven into the overall story much better.
Incidentally, I was a little amused when I started Super Metroid to see that (much like in Other M and Metroid Fusion) Samus had an opening monologue detailing the first 2 Metroid games. I had forgotten that was in the game. Despite the monologue being written more than a decade earlier than Other M's, though, I was amused to see that it is much better written (with no moaning about "THE BABY!") than what I've seen and heard of Other M's opening monologue.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 29, 2010, 08:47:25 PM
and although I think the events of the final battle are just as overblown in the fan community as the death of a certain flower girl, it is handled well.
Dude, it was cool as sh*t in 1994. You had to be there.
I agree, the end sequence is still amazing. I didn't play Super Metroid until 2 or 3 years after it was released and never touched Metroid 2, and yet I found the final sequence quite emotional.
About Metroid: Other M the way I see the sexism complaints is that it can't be any worse then rewarding the player by showing Samus in minimal clothing for beating the game with all the items in the quickiest way possible. I'm just glad they are trying to flesh her out as a character, it is a promising step by Nintendo, maybe we'll see more of it in the future.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 29, 2010, 09:16:44 PM
I think it could have been woven into the overall story much better.
What overall story? The Space Pirates steal the baby Metroid. Samus goes to retrieve it. I thought not seeing the baby Metroid until the very end of the game was the entire point. That's why Samus is running all over Zebes.
About Metroid: Other M the way I see the sexism complaints is that it can't be any worse then rewarding the player by showing Samus in minimal clothing for beating the game with all the items in the quickiest way possible.
People are kicking up a fuss because Samus chooses to follow orders from a man as opposed to blow everything up with all of her fancy weapons. If her CO was a woman, she'd probably do the same thing so I don't buy that as sexist at all. If anything, I'm more offended by the poor plot device preventing me/Samus from blowing the sh*t out of things early in the game even though I understand why.
There also a part later in the game where Ridley comes in and Adam has to save Samus. I feel that's more poor character development than anything because it's so illogical in so many ways. It didn't need to be a man in that instance, it just happened to be. Granted, I would like to play the game to truly judge this scene but based on what I've read, I don't find it to be sexist either. Mario games are far more sexist...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 29, 2010, 09:43:29 PM
Quote
What overall story? The Space Pirates steal the baby Metroid. Samus goes to retrieve it. I thought not seeing the baby Metroid until the very end of the game was the entire point. That's why Samus is running all over Zebes.
Right, it was the entire point. Not to mention it would have made little sense to have the Baby Metroid in other segments of the game. Mother Brain would want to keep the baby Metroid, the primary source to creating other Metroids close by.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: balzzzy on August 29, 2010, 10:55:45 PM
Quote
People are kicking up a fuss because Samus chooses to follow orders from a man as opposed to blow everything up with all of her fancy weapons. If her CO was a woman, she'd probably do the same thing so I don't buy that as sexist at all.
IMO, it's not the fact that a man gives her the authorization to use her abilities, it's the fact that she does it because??? Because she doesn't want to upset him even though he calls her an outsider? She wants to regain respect? Seriously, what is the explanation. It just doesn't feel the same as finding the things I worked so hard to gain. In this game he technically isn't her CO. And the fact that he locks rooms that you had access to before, even though you have the authorized ability to gain those items you found earlier, and quite possibly need...tough. The other part of the story is behind that door and you haven't finished a certain other event elsewhere. This made it feel more linear like Fusion, but a little more linear than Fusion.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: FZeroBoyo on August 29, 2010, 11:28:48 PM
Any word on that "Being Able to Use Nunchuk" Power-Up? =D
On a not-so-light note, it seems that this game is starting up quite a debate on Samus' character here. One can't help but wonder if Nintendo will keep it that way or return her to her "former glory". Hey RFN crew, you have an idea for a discussion later on!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 29, 2010, 11:33:08 PM
Any word on that "Being Able to Use Nunchuk" Power-Up? =D
On a not-so-light note, it seems that this game is starting up quite a debate on Samus' character here. One can't help but wonder if Nintendo will keep it that way or return her to her "former glory". Hey RFN crew, you have an idea for a discussion later on!
I agree. I eagerly look forward to RFN's discussion of this game (especially Jonny's perspective), because it's pretty obvious that Nintendo (or at least Sakamoto) is trying to take Samus' character in a completely different direction...one that, if it plays out like it has been discussed so far, I don't approve of. The Zero Suit was a bad enough blatant ploy to make Metroid attractive to Japanese perverts, but to see Samus like this now...well, I'll have to see for myself just how it plays out in-game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 29, 2010, 11:42:53 PM
Initial review done, but it's too raw. I'm gonna re-write tomorrow, and it will be up before you all run out and buy the game.
The story is unbelievably bad. It throws every bad sci-fi cliche in a blender and out pops...crap. You can't even get all the power-ups during the story mode, because the game forces you down a set path (worse than Fusion). Let's put it this way: the main story mode is the developer's way of forcing you to watch their awful, cutscene-laden story. You will stop caring the second Samus says "the Deleter."
FORTUNATELY, after beating the game, Samus actually returns to the Bottle Ship, and you can explore the entire ship AT YOUR LEISURE with all your power-ups available. Now you can get all the items you couldn't before, there's actually a second ending (that's better), and at least one absolutely wonderful bit of fanservice during that particular sequence.
Get through the terrible story mode for the wonderful post-game stuff.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 29, 2010, 11:46:22 PM
IMO, it's not the fact that a man gives her the authorization to use her abilities, it's the fact that she does it because??? Because she doesn't want to upset him even though he calls her an outsider? She wants to regain respect? Seriously, what is the explanation.
I'm assuming the game addresses this. Without having played the game, I'd assume the explanation is that, as a Galactic Federation army (?) deserter, Samus wants to prove her worth to her former CO which, in part, entails following orders such as authorization to use heavier weaponry. Still, and more to the point, that's not inherently sexist. That's just terrible writing. It has less to do with Adam being a man than it does Adam being her former superior.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 29, 2010, 11:46:44 PM
Initial review done, but it's too raw. I'm gonna re-write tomorrow, and it will be up before you all run out and buy the game.
The story is unbelievably bad. It throws every bad sci-fi cliche in a blender and out pops...crap. You can't even get all the power-ups during the story mode, because the game forces you down a set path (worse than Fusion). Let's put it this way: the main story mode is the developer's way of forcing you to watch their awful, cutscene-laden story. You will stop caring the second Samus says "the Deleter."
FORTUNATELY, after beating the game, Samus actually returns to the Bottle Ship, and you can explore the entire ship AT YOUR LEISURE with all your power-ups available. Now you can get all the items you couldn't before, there's actually a second ending (that's better), and at least one absolutely wonderful bit of fanservice during that particular sequence.
Get through the terrible story mode for the wonderful post-game stuff.
Without spoiling anything, Halbred, are there any nods to the Prime series in the game? I wouldn't expect there would be given Sakamoto's seeming indifference to them, but you do mention fanservice....
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 30, 2010, 12:32:07 AM
I'm assuming the game addresses this. Without having played the game, I'd assume the explanation is that, as a Galactic Federation army (?) deserter, Samus wants to prove her worth to her former CO which, in part, entails following orders such as authorization to use heavier weaponry. Still, and more to the point, that's not inherently sexist. That's just terrible writing. It has less to do with Adam being a man than it does Adam being her former superior.
Even though I haven't played the game from the sound of everything I've read, Samus relationship with Adam sounds like your typical Japanese student/teacher cliche where the student has the greatest respect for their teacher and will do anything to honor them, even if they haven't seen said teacher for many years. This happens all the time in Japanese movies and anime where you can have a character who can be an ultra manly badass but as soon as they meet their former mentor the character will suddenly become a lot more humble and polite and do whatever they can to impress them.
Hell, sometimes their former teacher will turn out to be an evil bastard who's responsible for the death of thousands of people and yet the hero will still not want to fight them because they still have some respect for them. Even if said hero has had no problem killing other evil villains who haven't even done things anywhere close to what the former teacher has.
So yeah in the end it's not sexism, but just a Japanese student/teacher cliche that many Japanese made stories have.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 30, 2010, 01:01:53 AM
Initial review done, but it's too raw. I'm gonna re-write tomorrow, and it will be up before you all run out and buy the game.
The story is unbelievably bad. It throws every bad sci-fi cliche in a blender and out pops...crap. You can't even get all the power-ups during the story mode, because the game forces you down a set path (worse than Fusion). Let's put it this way: the main story mode is the developer's way of forcing you to watch their awful, cutscene-laden story. You will stop caring the second Samus says "the Deleter."
FORTUNATELY, after beating the game, Samus actually returns to the Bottle Ship, and you can explore the entire ship AT YOUR LEISURE with all your power-ups available. Now you can get all the items you couldn't before, there's actually a second ending (that's better), and at least one absolutely wonderful bit of fanservice during that particular sequence.
Get through the terrible story mode for the wonderful post-game stuff.
Without spoiling anything, Halbred, are there any nods to the Prime series in the game? I wouldn't expect there would be given Sakamoto's seeming indifference to them, but you do mention fanservice....
Not that I've seen, sadly. What fanservice there is (and there's a fail amount) references the other 2D games.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 30, 2010, 01:31:55 AM
nvm. I'll wait for the review lol.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 30, 2010, 01:49:13 AM
Not that I've seen, sadly. What fanservice there is (and there's a fail amount) references the other 2D games.
To me, a "fail" amount of fanservice would be a lot. I am assuming you are saying there is very little.
Yeah I agree with Mop.
Also, I'm assuming the FPS switching in Other M would be you know, completely inspired by the Prime series. -_-
Judging by the reviews, if the whole FPS functionality is supposed to be an homage to the Prime games, Retro Studios should feel insulted due to how that feature turned out. :P: : : I was more talking about something like name drops or creature references anyway. It just seems odd to me that you have these 3 huge events Samus took part in in the Prime trilogy that have never been mentioned in Fusion and Other M. At least Zero Mission did a tip of the hat to the first Prime with the canon-ization of Samus' childhood, but that was also in the Nintendo Power comic series anyway.
Speaking of which, I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen that comic book reprinted for Club Nintendo or something. I remember it being easily the best of the ones that the magazine ran in its heyday (followed by Star Fox). I have the Super Mario World one, though, and that one's just weird.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: balzzzy on August 30, 2010, 02:53:38 AM
Quote
You will stop caring the second Samus says "the Deleter."
I thought the cringe line was "Confession time". You know this voice actress also did the British voice of Krystal in Star Fox for the Cube, she wasn't that great in that game either.
Quote
FORTUNATELY, after beating the game, Samus actually returns to the Bottle Ship, and you can explore the entire ship AT YOUR LEISURE with all your power-ups available. Now you can get all the items you couldn't before, there's actually a second ending (that's better), and at least one absolutely wonderful bit of fanservice during that particular sequence.
If only there were one final run through before you beat it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 30, 2010, 03:01:45 AM
You will stop caring the second Samus says "the Deleter."
I thought the cringe line was "Confession time". You know this voice actress also did the British voice of Krystal in Star Fox for the Cube, she wasn't that great in that game either.
Quote
FORTUNATELY, after beating the game, Samus actually returns to the Bottle Ship, and you can explore the entire ship AT YOUR LEISURE with all your power-ups available. Now you can get all the items you couldn't before, there's actually a second ending (that's better), and at least one absolutely wonderful bit of fanservice during that particular sequence.
If only there were one final run through before you beat it.
Nah that would be a pace killer. Like getting all the tribals before the final boss in JFG.
The dialog is not all perfect, there are a couple of lines that aren't great. But its the best Nintendo has ever done and I would call it over all a good story and good voice acting. Halbred complains of sci-fi stereotypes, well I don't watch much sci-fi so I wouldn't know.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on August 30, 2010, 03:08:07 AM
FORTUNATELY, after beating the game, Samus actually returns to the Bottle Ship, and you can explore the entire ship AT YOUR LEISURE with all your power-ups available. Now you can get all the items you couldn't before, there's actually a second ending (that's better), and at least one absolutely wonderful bit of fanservice during that particular sequence.
Get through the terrible story mode for the wonderful post-game stuff.
Nice, very nice. That's not a feature I've seen mentioned in any other reviews. We have observed in the past that some publications are not really exhaustive when reviewing a game, but seriously, the fact that nobody else seems to have played beyond the credits is not good. Post-game content should always be noted.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 30, 2010, 03:52:02 AM
You will stop caring the second Samus says "the Deleter."
I thought the cringe line was "Confession time". You know this voice actress also did the British voice of Krystal in Star Fox for the Cube, she wasn't that great in that game either.
Quote
FORTUNATELY, after beating the game, Samus actually returns to the Bottle Ship, and you can explore the entire ship AT YOUR LEISURE with all your power-ups available. Now you can get all the items you couldn't before, there's actually a second ending (that's better), and at least one absolutely wonderful bit of fanservice during that particular sequence.
If only there were one final run through before you beat it.
Nah that would be a pace killer. Like getting all the tribals before the final boss in JFG.
The dialog is not all perfect, there are a couple of lines that aren't great. But its the best Nintendo has ever done and I would call it over all a good story and good voice acting. Halbred complains of sci-fi stereotypes, well I don't watch much sci-fi so I wouldn't know.
Seriously about any HD game out there has sci-fi stereotypes if it is a sci-fi based game. Not saying it is good, but it isn't something totally out of place. Heck Halo has a cliche sci-fi story with elements from the genre blended throughout it. It is looking more and more like a game I need to play for myself, too many difference of opinion on how good the story is.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 30, 2010, 04:03:22 AM
You will stop caring the second Samus says "the Deleter."
I thought the cringe line was "Confession time". You know this voice actress also did the British voice of Krystal in Star Fox for the Cube, she wasn't that great in that game either.
Quote
FORTUNATELY, after beating the game, Samus actually returns to the Bottle Ship, and you can explore the entire ship AT YOUR LEISURE with all your power-ups available. Now you can get all the items you couldn't before, there's actually a second ending (that's better), and at least one absolutely wonderful bit of fanservice during that particular sequence.
If only there were one final run through before you beat it.
Nah that would be a pace killer. Like getting all the tribals before the final boss in JFG.
The dialog is not all perfect, there are a couple of lines that aren't great. But its the best Nintendo has ever done and I would call it over all a good story and good voice acting. Halbred complains of sci-fi stereotypes, well I don't watch much sci-fi so I wouldn't know.
Seriously about any HD game out there has sci-fi stereotypes if it is a sci-fi based game. Not saying it is good, but it isn't something totally out of place. Heck Halo has a cliche sci-fi story with elements from the genre blended throughout it. It is looking more and more like a game I need to play for myself, too many difference of opinion on how good the story is.
Well the right answer always is play it yourself. But like I said, between 4 of us, we were all pleasantly surprised by the story.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 30, 2010, 07:34:43 AM
and although I think the events of the final battle are just as overblown in the fan community as the death of a certain flower girl, it is handled well.
Dude, it was cool as sh*t in 1994. You had to be there.
QFT x Infinity
Someone who never played Super Metroid back in its day and plays it now and judges it to be crap is no different than someone who never played Super Mario Bros from the NES, but then the play it and they say it sucks because its not quite the same as modern Mario games so they expected something very different. A lot of gamers today were either not even born yet in 1994, or if they were they were far too young to have played or remembered Super Metroid. So you do have a lot of people like Broodwars out there that have never played the original Metroids, but they have played the Prime games, so they get an idea of what Metroid should be from Prime and then they are left disappointed when the original Metroids are very different.
I'm the exact opposite, because I started with the old school Metroids, so for me the disappointment is in how the Prime games fail to match the originals in certain respects. I do understand how Prime players would play Super Metroid and feel unimpressed by the plot/story of the game, but the main reason for that is because the modern Metroid games have basically used the same plot as that, so it doesn't leave much surprises for them. But its important to keep in mind that the original Metroid games were where it all started, so if that was the first Metroid you ever played then you would have a far more favorable opinion of it because the whole experience would have been new and original to you and you wouldn't have shrugged it off as just another clone in the franchise.
My 2 cents.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on August 30, 2010, 09:59:14 AM
Initial review done, but it's too raw. I'm gonna re-write tomorrow, and it will be up before you all run out and buy the game.
I personally hope you'll write the review so that it's interrupted by your internal monologue. (e.g. "Confession Time: " ).
It's too bad to hear that the story didn't really click with a lot of people. Based on what I have seen, I think I'm still going to have a lot of fun with the game; a lot of it seems to remind me of some sort of weird hybrid of 2D platformer, Resident Evil, and Metal Gear Solid.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on August 30, 2010, 10:11:22 AM
I almost always buy the new games in Nintendo's big 3 franchises very quickly, but this one is going to get a rental first, based on the iffiness of several early reports. However, based my past history of liking games that a lot of other Nintendo fans dislike (Star Fox Command and Phantom Hourglass come to mind), I bet I'll end up really enjoying this anyway.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: FZeroBoyo on August 30, 2010, 10:19:29 AM
So such a move on Samus' character could be the reason why heavy stories don't work well in Nintendo franchises. Sure, Zelda has a semi-epic story but wasn't the end to Twilight Princess a little too predictable? And with Galaxy 2, it didn't have a good beginning and ending like its predecessor had but the team's goal was just putting in some awesome levels. Someone said that Nintendo has been about gameplay above all other aspects and that doesn't look to be the point with Other M, as IGN points out in their review.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 30, 2010, 10:38:53 AM
Someone who never played Super Metroid back in its day and plays it now and judges it to be crap is no different than someone who never played Super Mario Bros from the NES, but then the play it and they say it sucks because its not quite the same as modern Mario games so they expected something very different. A lot of gamers today were either not even born yet in 1994, or if they were they were far too young to have played or remembered Super Metroid. So you do have a lot of people like Broodwars out there that have never played the original Metroids, but they have played the Prime games, so they get an idea of what Metroid should be from Prime and then they are left disappointed when the original Metroids are very different.
Alright, when have I ever on these forums posted that Super Metroid was "crap"? I don't care much for it, that's true, but I can respect what it did for gaming (now the original Metroid I do gladly call "crap") and for its time it was excellent. 2D Metroid really isn't my thing, primarily since the "exploration" basically boils down to shooting or bombing every block on the screen until something happens (plus, I suck trying to manage the shinespark). There's just something about the 2D Metroids that makes them unengaging for me, with the exception of Zero Mission, and to be honest I'm really not sure what it is. The atmosphere is usually fine, the music decent-to-excellent, the action fun, and in the modern games the story is serviceable enough. Despite that, there's just something about the 2D Metroids that turns me off.
Also, while it's true that Metroid Prime is the game that got me interested in the series again, I've been playing games since the NES days (including the original Metroid, though I never got far in it). I'm certainly no stranger to games like that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Nick DiMola on August 30, 2010, 10:58:09 AM
I'm curious to see what everyone here thinks about the game when they play it. After Chessa and I finished it, it was pretty clear that it was going to be divisive amongst fans of the series.
Like I said to a friend of mine about the game, it's probably one of the worst Metroid games to come out, but easily the best work of Team Ninja to date. Both Chessa and I really enjoyed the game, but it fails on a variety of points at being a good Metroid game, namely exploration, which like Zach said, is only truly unlocked after you beat the game.
I think part of the problem is that the game was released after the Prime series. Other M in comparison to those games feels like a step back. I believe that if Other M were to have released on the N64 and directly followed up Super Metroid, it would still be praised today as one of the best games in the series. As it stands, Other M had some big shoes to fill, and in my opinion, it didn't quite make it.
It will be interesting to see where the series goes next after this title. I'm curious to see how much Nintendo carries over to the subsequent titles in the series, and if they will allow Team Ninja to work on the series again. Anyhow, if anyone is interested in some deeper thoughts on the title, Chessa posted the review over at PixlBit (http://www.pixlbit.com/reviews?action=showReview&reviewId=187).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on August 30, 2010, 11:03:19 AM
The wall jump is about skill and timing. It doesn't do it for you the way modern games do. If you are unfamiliar with how old school games work then I'm not surprised you don't like it, because you're judging it through the lens of a modern gamer.
Like I said, I know how to execute the move (twirl-jump into a wall, let go of the D-pad, and then hit the D-pad in the opposite direction and hit the jump button): it just doesn't work most of the time I do it.
Yes, and it's not so much old-school design as frustrating design. Earlier games, such as Batman and Ninja Gaiden for the NES, and the Mega Man X series for the SNES, had wall jumps that were much easier to pull off... so, why is Super Metroid's comparatively difficult?
Broodwars, you aren't alone; I've seen others complain about this as well.
@ Nick, you're probably right. The biggest obstacle to Other M's success is that it's billed as a Metroid sequel; it's being largely accepted or rejected according to people's perceptions about what a Metroid game should be. Whether or not it's a good game, it seems to fail to meet the expectations of many of the existing fans.
I'm curious about what my own reaction will be. I still love the original 2D metroids, but, try as I might, I've never been able to get invested into the Prime series. I've owned and played each of them, but I don't think I've ever made it to the end without losing interest.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 30, 2010, 11:46:52 AM
If this game ends up being a bomb and if everyone ends up hating the storyline and the voice acting, then all Nintendo needs to do is reject it from the Metroid canon and quietly sweep it under the rug and never speak of it again. That's exactly what they did with the CD-I Zelda games, which were very different from the other Zelda games and introduced a lot of new stuff. Nintendo never speaks of those games anymore, and there is no apparent plans to ever re-release them on the VC or otherwise.
So if Metroid M is absolutely terrible, Nintendo could always do that with it and then save the franchise from total ruin.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 30, 2010, 11:49:13 AM
If this game ends up being a bomb and if everyone ends up hating the storyline and the voice acting, then all Nintendo needs to do is reject it from the Metroid canon and quietly sweep it under the rug and never speak of it again.
In other words, exactly what happened with Metroid Prime Hunters? ;)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on August 30, 2010, 11:52:57 AM
If this game ends up being a bomb and if everyone ends up hating the storyline and the voice acting, then all Nintendo needs to do is reject it from the Metroid canon and quietly sweep it under the rug and never speak of it again. That's exactly what they did with the CD-I Zelda games, which were very different from the other Zelda games and introduced a lot of new stuff.
Those CD-I games weren't even on a Nintendo console. I think it would be a lot more difficult to sweep a game under the rug that appeared on their flagship console. However, even if this game is bad, I don't see any need to sweep anything under the rug. I don't think bad games "ruin" a franchise, because every game in a franchise should be judged solely on its own merits. Star Fox Adventures doesn't "ruin" Star Fox 64, or any subsequent Star Fox game that may or may not be awesome, or the franchise as a whole.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 30, 2010, 12:05:51 PM
This isn't a bad game. Its just a very different Metroid/Nintendo game with a few flaws.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 30, 2010, 12:09:34 PM
Yeah, but they appear to be major flaws based on the reviews. It looks like my original plan to wait for it to drop to $30 was a good one as the flaws mentioned do not make me willing to pay $54 for it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on August 30, 2010, 12:37:16 PM
IGN reviews it pretty positively. It gets an 8.5 and this guy makes it sound like a blast. Regardless it sounds good enough for me, can't wait to play it. Though whole Fusion esc upgrade system is lame though, oh well.
http://wii.ign.com/articles/111/1111849p1.html
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 30, 2010, 12:44:46 PM
I don't think bad games "ruin" a franchise, because every game in a franchise should be judged solely on its own merits. Star Fox Adventures doesn't "ruin" Star Fox 64, or any subsequent Star Fox game that may or may not be awesome, or the franchise as a whole.
But the issue with Other M is it is a heavily story based game covering Samus' beginnings (from what I understand anyway), and it is also the first time we have heard Samus' voice. So that's two things there which go beyond the game itself and have a deep impact on the entire franchise as a whole. That's what I'm trying to say here. If its a good story and good voice then it isn't a problem, even if the gameplay sucks. But on the other hand, if there are problems in this storyline then the franchise as a whole could suffer, because the storyline is what its all about and future games will be built with that storyline in mind.
That's why I'm saying if it sucks then it should probably be thrown out and started over, just like how that new Star Trek movie rebooted the entire franchise.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 30, 2010, 12:50:13 PM
Except the new Trek movie didn't technically reboot anything, it takes place in a alternate timeline (the real timeline remains intact, although the movie did have the real Romulus be destroyed).
Also, if anything they would just throw out Other M and pretend it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 30, 2010, 01:54:25 PM
Yeah, but they appear to be major flaws based on the reviews.
Can you define major for me? Controls are frustrating on occasional, not everyone will enjoy the story, and the structure of the HUB is a little uncreative.
None of that influences the gameplay in any major ways. "A blast" as Nick defined the game, is a great description.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 30, 2010, 02:07:30 PM
Been out of town for a few days and in regards to Metroid: Other M discussion that was rather poor timing. So this post is kind of a scattershot of stuff relating to the last three days of posts.
Some people were making a big deal about unskippable cutscenes. I have never understood that. If you skip the cutscenes the first time you encounter them how the hell do you have any idea what is going on? Sometimes specific gameplay related information is revealed, informing you of your next objective. What I don't like is if I've already seen the cutscene and can't skip it. The worst is when you get a little scene before a boss, you die on the boss, load up your save and have to go through the whole scene again and again every time you die on the boss. That's inexusable crap design and if you're complaining about that I support it. But if I was a dev I wouldn't let you skip the cutscene the first time through.
Wall jumping in Super Metroid does suck though it seems mostly optional to progress through the game so I cut it some slack. The part where you learn the wall jump from those little dudes is the only time I recall having to use it - you have to get out of the pit. What I like about Super Metroid is that it is me having the adventure. I'm not watching Samus, *I* am Samus. The experience is what I am thinking and what conclusion I am coming to. I figure out the solution, I explore. I don't watch. That's what almost every game gets wrong these days. The player is a bystander who gets to control at parts. Super Metroid is very much your experience and that's what make it brilliant. That's why every new Metroid game gets compared to it because every new Metroid game fucks that up. I think Metroid Prime is an absolute classic but it still doesn't quite get it as right as Super Metroid. Blantant hints that hit you over the head with the answer, cutscenes that tell you what you are supposed to be thinking, and perfectly choreographed set piece bosses take the gameplay from the player. Modern Metroid gets that wrong, modern Zelda gets that wrong, practically every modern game gets that wrong. The problem is doing it right will make the game harder and will take away a lot of superficial pizzazz and that's not as mainstream friendly so no one has the balls to do it.
For Other M there have been three things that I, and practically everyone, has been concerned about: **** story, iffy controls, linear non-Metroid gameplay. Now the reviews are out and the issues? **** story, iffy controls, linear non-Metroid gameplay. So everything I was concerned about was exactly what they fucked up? I expected them to get everything else right. So this makes me a lot less enthusiastic about this game, which is a bummer because my brother and I were talking about it this last weekend and got ourselves pumped for Tuesday's release. I'm still going to get it but I'm iffy about it.
Normally a game that gets mostly positive reviews is a success. But this is Metroid. If it's not a GOTY contender then it's a failure. I think that Metroid has that kind of reputation (as does Zelda).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on August 30, 2010, 03:16:59 PM
But this is Metroid. If it's not a GOTY contender then it's a failure.
I never understood this kind of attitude. If a game is fun, a game is fun, it shouldn't really matter what the 3D model that represents the main character looks like or what the title of the game is. There are many games that are neither GOTY contenders nor failures, and I don't think there's any franchise that can't have a game that lands in that middle ground. Allowing expectations to ruin your actual game experience is baffling.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 30, 2010, 03:24:13 PM
Wait, who complained about the story and the linearity? Because that's the opposite of what I've heard about the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: nickmitch on August 30, 2010, 03:27:58 PM
I believe G4 (XPlay) was complaining about the story.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 30, 2010, 03:30:04 PM
The story has been one of the biggest complaints in the reviews so far, including GameTrailers review and the NWR review.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 30, 2010, 03:46:49 PM
I have to say that I am deeply in love with 16-bit graphics, 16-bit music, and the Mode 7 of Super Metroid. Is any of that as good as the graphics of modern games like Metroid Prime? Hell no, but for some reason I can't explain I love it more. I guess you could call it nostalgia.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on August 30, 2010, 03:57:44 PM
I am looking forward to the story, as it will be nice to have samus a more fleshed out. Story in my book is a good thing and if the game play is there its a winner. Not sure what the linear comments are about either. In nintendo interviews, they say that there are many exploration elements and back tracking. I'm sure the story is going to be most present at the beginning to get things going, but really are they playing a game? or watching a movie? If you dont care for story, fine metroid is not the place to play then. Remember the novels inside the prime series?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 30, 2010, 04:07:00 PM
Those novels were completely optional, but they did tell a coherent story.
The NWR review hasn't been posted yet. :-D
But it will be very shortly.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: kraken613 on August 30, 2010, 04:13:23 PM
Wait is this out already or is it tomorrow?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 30, 2010, 04:17:30 PM
It should be out tomorrow. This should be a big enough game for Nintendo to make sure it's actually in stores on the release date, rather than the usual "release date/ship date" nonsense.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 30, 2010, 04:46:44 PM
Amazon will probably ship my pre-ordered copy tomorrow, but it will probably take a few days to actually arrive in the mail. I think I should avoid this forum until it arrives so I can avoid the spoilers and/or all the people saying "WOW! This is so awesome!". For me the wait is going to be hard enough even without that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on August 30, 2010, 05:06:09 PM
Amazon will probably ship my pre-ordered copy tomorrow, but it will probably take a few days to actually arrive in the mail. I think I should avoid this forum until it arrives so I can avoid the spoilers and/or all the people saying "WOW! This is so awesome!". For me the wait is going to be hard enough even without that.
Ditto. I've got mine ordered from Amazon.com, too. I can't remember if I had street date shipping selected, though. o_O Oh well. I'll play it soon enough!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 30, 2010, 05:10:22 PM
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I never understood this kind of attitude. If a game is fun, a game is fun, it shouldn't really matter what the 3D model that represents the main character looks like or what the title of the game is. There are many games that are neither GOTY contenders nor failures, and I don't think there's any franchise that can't have a game that lands in that middle ground. Allowing expectations to ruin your actual game experience is baffling.
I don't see what "3D models" has to do with this. I think it makes sense. Metroid carries with it a certain expectation of quality. As a Metroid fan I expect that. The high quality is a big part of why I am a fan in the first place. So if the quality slips significantly, even if the product is not complete crap, I consider that a failure. It's a common brand name thing. If your brand is supposed to be high end then being "decent" is not acceptable. Your customers buy your product under the assumption that that brand indicates high quality.
At the very least if this is merely an okay or decent Metroid game but not on par with the series as a whole then it is not the direction the series should continue because that would just result in the quality of the series decreasing. From that perspective it is a failure because either they have to start again to get back on track or continue towards the path to mediocrity. If It ends up either as an experiment that was quickly abandoned or the start of a slide in the series quality then how is it not a failure?
Success and failure is all relative anyway. I personally am not cool with "okay" Metroid games or even okay games PERIOD. You can mention fun but I do not have fun with games that are mediocre. If they were fun then they wouldn't be mediocre. "Fun" is the whole basis of comparison. My concern is that this Metroid game is not going to be as enjoyable or fun for me.
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It should be out tomorrow. This should be a big enough game for Nintendo to make sure it's actually in stores on the release date, rather than the usual "release date/ship date" nonsense.
It better be out tomorrow. Here in Canada I've been screwed by this before where Americans are beating the game while I'm still waiting an extra day or two. On the Wii Nintendo has been pretty good on the release date being the actual release date so hopefully it will be fine. My brother is planning on showing up at my house on Wednesday to play the game. There is no way I'm letting him play my game first so I was planning on getting it on Tuesday and sinking some good play time in then. If I don't get it until Wednesday then he's going to be watching me play.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 30, 2010, 05:25:34 PM
Ian, seriously can we wait till the game is at least out before we start labeling it a success or failure, or insinuating that this is the start of a decline in the series? Besides, I'm ok if this doesn't turn out to be the most spectacular Metroid experience, provided they learn from their mistakes here and make the suitable changes in the next iteration in the series. Until then, this is an experiment and I'll give them credit for at least trying something new.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 30, 2010, 06:01:08 PM
The problem is the reviewing community has already received copies of the game, played it, and posted their opinions/reviews on it. So our expectations for the game are severely tainted as a result of that... some reviewers say its great, and others say its not so great so we're all a bit confused and we're making our own judgments of the game based on hearsay.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 30, 2010, 06:09:57 PM
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Ian, seriously can we wait till the game is at least out before we start labeling it a success or failure, or insinuating that this is the start of a decline in the series?
Sorry, I'm not actually declaring it a failure, just saying that if it turns out to be a mediocre Metroid game that I would consider it one. Hopefully I'll love it.
This was however a game that all throughout the development we've been expressing concerns and Sakamoto has been brushing us off. And the reviews are now suggesting that the common concerns were completely valid. I personally don't like it when I express concern about something, they brush me off, and then it turns out my concerns were justified all along. I don't like being right in situations like that. That's a real pet peeve of mine.
If Sakamoto is going to make a Metroid game that no one really asked for, take it in a direction that everyone was iffy about, and on top of that dismiss the very highly regarded Metroid Prime games then he better deliver. When Retro took Metroid into a first person direction there was a lot of concern but they nailed it and they showed that they knew what they were doing. Sakamoto has set himself up for the harshest scrutiny.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 30, 2010, 06:11:33 PM
It just seems odd to me that you have these 3 huge events Samus took part in in the Prime trilogy that have never been mentioned in Fusion and Other M.
Nintendo doesn't really give a sh*t about canon or a master timeline in any of their franchises. The fans demand it and it just seems like Nintendo pays them lipservice just so everyone will shut the f*ck up about it. In Metroid, Samus saves the galaxy FOUR times in the Prime series that is never mentioned AT ALL in the main series. Four whole games make no reference to the Prime games. Granted, 2 of them were developed before Prime 1 was released, but the point remains. I am fully aware that Nintendo has gone on record to explain its place in the canon. However, they don't treat it as such so it's hard to take it seriously as anything more than lipservice and honestly, it's not worth the headache. To Nintendo, it just is, but that line of thinking is both misguided and simplistic. The canon suffers. In fact, Nintendo barely respects the events of the main series. I accidentally read a spoiler for Other M that completely messes with one of the most important scenes in Fusion. How do you get that wrong?
I thought the cringe line was "Confession time". You know this voice actress also did the British voice of Krystal in Star Fox for the Cube, she wasn't that great in that game either.
Makes me wonder why they didn't just stick with Jennifer Hale, who is a great voice actress.
Modern Metroid gets that wrong, modern Zelda gets that wrong, practically every modern game gets that wrong. The problem is doing it right will make the game harder and will take away a lot of superficial pizzazz and that's not as mainstream friendly so no one has the balls to do it.
Then, stop playing modern videogames. I don't know what else to tell you. "Are you there God? It's me, Ian." That's you. That's what you sound like. Margaret wants her period (for who knows why, that's bad news for everyone involved), you want games no one is making. Neither request makes sense because both you and Margaret are in the very small minority of people who want these things to happen. If no one is making the games you want to play, there are literally hundreds of games released in the 1990's that fit your description that you can play to your heart's content. So go ahead, go nuts, go apesh*t...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 30, 2010, 06:29:19 PM
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Then, stop playing modern videogames. I don't know what else to tell you.
I ain't saying modern videogames are no good, I'm just saying there is something older games like Super Metroid got right that virtually no games do correctly today. That doesn't mean I'm not enjoying myself with these new games. Some of my favourite games ever don't get this element right. I am merely observing a game design technique that has fallen by the wayside and that is part of why Super Metroid is so special.
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Makes me wonder why they didn't just stick with Jennifer Hale, who is a great voice actress.
Great voice actresses cost more money.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 30, 2010, 06:40:25 PM
It just seems odd to me that you have these 3 huge events Samus took part in in the Prime trilogy that have never been mentioned in Fusion and Other M.
Four whole games make no reference to the Prime games. Granted, 2 of them were developed before Prime 1 was released, but the point remains.
Maybe they didn't mention the Prime games because Metroid: Other M is the first game to come out after the Prime games, so your point doesn't remain. How can a game reference something from a game that hasn't been created yet?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 30, 2010, 06:42:12 PM
She's off doing better things--voicing Power Girl in Batman/Superman: Public Enemes.
I think.
Ian, you're going to hate this game, and I look forward to your inevitable ragerant.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 30, 2010, 07:11:57 PM
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Ian, you're going to hate this game, and I look forward to your inevitable ragerant.
Most personally identifiable review EVER. :)
Seriously though, that's a bummer. I don't want to go to the store EXPECTING to be throwing my money away.
My brother once asked me why I went to the theatres to see Star Wars: Episode III when I clearly hated Episode II and knew the series was going in a direction I didn't like and was essentially paying to see a movie I expected I was going to hate. I told him I felt an obligation to see it so as to form a proper opinion of the prequels as a whole. Being somewhat of a geek this seemed to be mandatory geek viewing.
As a Metroid fan unless this thing was getting really bad review scores left and right (and it hasn't) then it was inevitable that I buy it just to at the very least see what it was like. It's a mandatory purchase for a Metroid fan and Metroid is a mandatory purchase for Nintendo fans.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 30, 2010, 07:58:47 PM
I think part of the problem is that the game was released after the Prime series. Other M in comparison to those games feels like a step back. I believe that if Other M were to have released on the N64 and directly followed up Super Metroid, it would still be praised today as one of the best games in the series. As it stands, Other M had some big shoes to fill, and in my opinion, it didn't quite make it.
@ Nick, you're probably right. The biggest obstacle to Other M's success is that it's billed as a Metroid sequel; it's being largely accepted or rejected according to people's perceptions about what a Metroid game should be. Whether or not it's a good game, it seems to fail to meet the expectations of many of the existing fans. made it to the end without losing interest.
Nailed it, though I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting certain things from a series. As for myself, I never played a Metroid game until 2002 so I don't have any attachments to them, and therefore I think I'll enjoy this game for what it is without issue.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on August 31, 2010, 12:22:14 AM
"I think I'll enjoy this game for what it is without issue." Nailed it Mop...
Expectations can make or break a property. Without them, your left with whats in front of you.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on August 31, 2010, 12:59:11 AM
Maybe they didn't mention the Prime games because Metroid: Other M is the first game to come out after the Prime games, so your point doesn't remain. How can a game reference something from a game that hasn't been created yet?
Fusion came out on the same day as Prime. Development of both games was concurrent albeit in Japan and Texas respectively. Senior designers in Japan (which, according to wikipedia, included Sakamoto... you've used wikipedia in the past so it's fair here) communicated regularly with Retro throughout the development of Prime. I'm sure the plot of both games came up at some point, yet Fusion makes absolutely no mention of Prime. A vague reference in Fusion to Phazon or Metroid Prime/Dark Samus would have been nice. The secret ending of Prime laid the groundwork for a Samus doppelganger which would have worked well thematically with SA-X.
Without spoiling anything, Halbred, are there any nods to the Prime series in the game? I wouldn't expect there would be given Sakamoto's seeming indifference to them, but you do mention fanservice....
Not that I've seen, sadly. What fanservice there is (and there's a fail amount) references the other 2D games.
Straight from someone who completed Other M. I'd like to play the game to see for myself (and I will tomorrow). There's absolutely no excuse for Other M to disregard the Prime series entirely, especially considering Prime wrapped up its arc in 2007. Seems like Sakamoto is avoiding it on purpose. If Other M fails to reference the Prime games in any way, the canon suffers. There's no reason not to. Prime is a part of series canon because, outside of the games, Nintendo says it is. The games, however, are anything but integrated.
Jennifer Hale was Alexandra Roivas and 1/2 of Xel'lotath (the coolest of the 4 ancients) in Eternal Darkness, a game Nintendo funded.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 31, 2010, 01:46:37 AM
Review is up. Go check it out!
I have some fun things planned to further cover this game, including an radio drama with Neal and a blog post where I post my original, rage-fueled review.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 31, 2010, 11:35:24 AM
You know what's strange? That Other M is considered sexist but rewarding players with a shot of Samus in her underwear at the end of every game up until Prime (and even then the Zero suit is pretty revealing) is ignored. Apparently Other M ruins the Metroid tradition of respecting its female protagonist :P
In other news Amazon fucked up my release date delivery and I'm pissed.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Morari on August 31, 2010, 12:53:25 PM
Yeah. They definitely should have respected Samus' feminine power!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 31, 2010, 02:50:57 PM
I picked up my copy of Other M over my lunch break, and so far I have to give props to Nintendo on one thing: that Art Folio is surprisingly (and pleasantly) classy. It's a big pet peeve of mine when companies (particularly anime companies) pack in postcards or whatnot with their DVDs, but they give you nowhere to put them so I end up having to chuck them into a bin I have set aside for that very purpose. The postcard artwork for the Other M folio, however, comes in a black envelope made out of what looks like high-quality cardboard (which has an almost felt-like texture to it). The artwork inside is quite lovely; on high-quality paper; and surprisingly large, with captions on the back of the cards. I'm usually very unimpressed by Nintendo pre-order bonuses, but this one's very satisfying. My only complaint is that because the fold for the envelope is on the inside, it can be a little hard to get the cards back in it.
Also, I wasn't terribly fond of the Other M cover art when I saw it online, but in person it looks pretty nice. You can't fault Nintendo for the artwork in this game, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 31, 2010, 03:50:21 PM
Anyone who wants to discuss spoilers please mark them accordingly, because some of us are still waiting for our copies to come in the mail.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 31, 2010, 03:54:03 PM
Anyone who wants to discuss spoilers please mark them accordingly, because some of us are still waiting for our copies to come in the mail.
Alright, can we lay down the rules of just what qualifies as spoilers? Obviously, any plot developments told in cutscenes or whatnot qualifies. IMO, though, bosses and power-ups should not and I've seen some real hand-wringing from people over boss discussion in the past, to the point where it can get really silly (like people whining about the cloud suit in Galaxy 2 being revealed on NWR).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on August 31, 2010, 03:56:04 PM
Samus is a bounty hunter! :-*
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 31, 2010, 04:00:36 PM
The blonde-haired girl is an android created to house a computer program that's been reverse-engineered to resemble Mother Brain so that Metroids can be controlled telepathically. However, at a certain point, the android gained self-awareness and then developed emotions. She thought of lab's head researcher as her mother.
The bonus boss is a giant version of Phantoom. It's a fairly easy, but AWESOME fight. Fanservice FTW.
In the few scenes where she's out of her Power Suit, Samus does, indeed, have a big rack. Makes me happy.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 31, 2010, 04:35:42 PM
I think a good rule with spoilers is if it's something that the dev really didn't want you to know ahead of time then it's a spoiler. If it's in the manual it's not really a spoiler for example. You're supposed to experience the story going in fresh. If some area or boss is such that the knowledge of it would reveal the plot to someone who hasn't played it yet then it's also a spoiler. Let's say the boss is someone who was portrayed as a good guy earlier in the game. If you mention that boss fight without spoilers anyone just starting the game will be able to put two and two together.
It's probably better to be overly careful with spoilers then to be careless.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on August 31, 2010, 04:40:48 PM
The instruction manual tells you how to use EVERY SUIT AND WEAPON POWER-UP YOU GET.
I assume this is because the game was made with a more "Blue Ocean" strategy in mind, but when I was flipping through the manual, I was like, "this is bullsh*t."
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on August 31, 2010, 04:45:39 PM
Manuals are for non-men! And including info on how to use every suit and power up is for non-men too!
Going to head out and pick up my copy.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 31, 2010, 04:46:26 PM
The instruction manual tells you how to use EVERY SUIT AND WEAPON POWER-UP YOU GET.
I assume this is because the game was made with a more "Blue Ocean" strategy in mind, but when I was flipping through the manual, I was like, "this is bullsh*t."
Yeah, I had to shake my head at that as well. Then again, I have to wonder if "TEH CASUALZS!" actually read game manuals. :-\ Maybe they just figured only we would, so they just layed out the list of power-ups to expect.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on August 31, 2010, 04:49:31 PM
Yeah...I stopped seeing the need to read manuals when games started integrating tutorials into the gameplay anyway. What's the point?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 31, 2010, 05:10:12 PM
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The instruction manual tells you how to use EVERY SUIT AND WEAPON POWER-UP YOU GET.
Okay, let's specify that the manual has to not be written by stupid morons. If what constitutes a spoiler is not painfully obvious to you then just don't say anything or assume everything is a spoiler. It seriously should not be hard to discern.
The irony of the "blue ocean" approach in this is that there is all this emphasis on the NES game. The original NES Metroid is one of the least user-friendly games I've ever played and is by FAR the least accessible Metroid game. If you look at the original game as inspiration then this should be even MORE obtuse and confusing. When Nintendo acts as if the NES was this golden age for intuitive mainstream-friendly games I wonder if anyone at NCL has gone back and actually PLAYED these old games.
The elusive "everyone" game is a pipe dream anyway and I wish Nintendo would not bother attempting it. The spectrum of human taste is far too great for any game to please everyone. You change this to try to attract this group of people and you turn off people from that audience. That's how it works.
Today's day at work is really dragging. Despite the mixed reviews I really want to try this out for myself but I have to wait until I get home. Stupid reality.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on August 31, 2010, 05:50:39 PM
Alright, can we lay down the rules of just what qualifies as spoilers?
I'd think anyone who is concerned with boss and poerup names has stayed away from this and all relevent threads, so I wouldn't worry about that. However, this may not technically qualify as a spoiler, but I think that explaining in detail how to defeat a boss is probably something most people don't want to know unless they are stuck, so it'd probably be a good idea to give some sort of warning before going into that, though the black spoiler tags may not be necessary.
Speaking of, I should probably now abstain from this thread until after I beat the game, before I learn something I don't want to know. See the lot of you back here in a week or two.
You know what's strange? That Other M is considered sexist but rewarding players with a shot of Samus in her underwear at the end of every game up until Prime (and even then the Zero suit is pretty revealing) is ignored. Apparently Other M ruins the Metroid tradition of respecting its female protagonist :P
Because females never played games until today.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 31, 2010, 05:55:03 PM
To me, everything about a game is a spoiler. If a boss is easy, its a spoiler. If a character you meet is blonde, its a spoiler. If the level structure is a central hub its a spoiler. So just make your whole post a spoiler.
Anything that would possibly give you a preconceived feeling about the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 31, 2010, 05:56:40 PM
To me, everything about a game is a spoiler. If a boss is easy, its a spoiler. If a character you meet is blonde, its a spoiler. If the level structure is a central hub its a spoiler. So just make your whole post a spoiler.
Anything that would possibly give you a preconceived feeling about the game.
Alright, then I consider the fact that you have been hyping this game to kingdom come the last couple days to be a spoiler. ;) You're obviously trying to give me a preconceived feeling about the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on August 31, 2010, 05:57:29 PM
To me, everything about a game is a spoiler. If a boss is easy, its a spoiler. If a character you meet is blonde, its a spoiler. If the level structure is a central hub its a spoiler. So just make your whole post a spoiler.
Anything that would possibly give you a preconceived feeling about the game.
Sounds like most everyone here has been 'spoiled' ;)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on August 31, 2010, 06:26:35 PM
If you read the interview on Nintendo.com where they take all main people involved with the series, the talk about the voice acting. It was done on purpose and really hard for them to get her to sound that way. So her voice acting is exactly what they wanted.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on August 31, 2010, 06:40:33 PM
Quote
If you read the interview on Nintendo.com where they take all main people involved with the series, the talk about the voice acting. It was done on purpose and really hard for them to get her to sound that way. So her voice acting is exactly what they wanted.
So bad direction instead of bad acting. Good to know.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheFleece on August 31, 2010, 06:59:03 PM
I picked up my copy earlier today and I've been playing off and on throughout the afternoon. I'm up to a point where Samus is controlled as if she were a tank and I hate it. Everything else that I was on the fence about: voice acting, controls and lack of music really compliment the atmosphere of the game. Samus sounds boring because she's just encountered all of her frenemies from her past which she neatly tucked into the back of her mind, it's like a high school reunion with all of the people you'd hate to share a table with.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 31, 2010, 07:32:38 PM
If you read the interview on Nintendo.com where they take all main people involved with the series, the talk about the voice acting. It was done on purpose and really hard for them to get her to sound that way. So her voice acting is exactly what they wanted.
I'm strongly reminded of what happened with the English dub for the anime series Love Hina in the early 2000s: one of the stipulations of the licensing contract is that the domestic distribution company (I think it was Bandai at the time) had to allow the Japanese license holders to select the English voice actors and direct them. It is one of the most notoriously awful dubs in the history of English anime dubs, but it was exactly what the creators wanted. So yeah...stuff like voice acting is best left to the professionals. Just because a dub turned out "exactly how they wanted," that does not mean it was good. -_-'
Just got home, so I'll be starting up my playthrough soon.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 31, 2010, 07:34:34 PM
To me, everything about a game is a spoiler. If a boss is easy, its a spoiler. If a character you meet is blonde, its a spoiler. If the level structure is a central hub its a spoiler. So just make your whole post a spoiler.
Anything that would possibly give you a preconceived feeling about the game.
Alright, then I consider the fact that you have been hyping this game to kingdom come the last couple days to be a spoiler. ;) You're obviously trying to give me a preconceived feeling about the game.
Nah I just don't understand peoples complaints. They game has problems, but its an 8.5 haha.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 31, 2010, 08:50:57 PM
Just defeated the first boss. So far, the game's ok and the controls work better than I thought they would. It has been annoying, though, coming across upgrades I can see plain-as-day right in front of me that I can't get just because "Adam hasn't authorized it." :-\ It can also be kind of hard, with this graphical style and fixed camera angle, to see what you can and can't interact with without entering 1st person view. I am a bit bugged by a bit of continuity error, especially after having just finished Super Metroid: if I'm not mistaken, isn't Samus' ship in Other M supposed to be the one she had in Super Metroid? That one was a top-loader, yet the one she has in Other M is a bottom-loader...
Anyone found a way to turn those hints off that appear occasionally to tell you things you probably already know? ::)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Spinnzilla on August 31, 2010, 10:11:50 PM
So far I really like it. But i'm definitely frustrated with the whole first person aspect, so very forced and script is cheesy. But I don't really have any complaints that already haven't be addressed by others.
I really like the finisher moves. All of the little battles are very visually appealing with the camera constantly panning around you. I really, really hope that something similar to that is kept in future titles. It just adds some to the experience.
Just really...how hard would have been to give us missile use in 3rd person? :/
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 31, 2010, 10:26:43 PM
I see now that Nintendo has found a new way to "highly recommend" that we take a break: they make a control scheme that actually hurts to use after a couple hours. Seriously, after two hours of play, this tiny D-pad's killing my thumb. :Q I'll probably go watch a movie or something for a few hours to give my hands a rest. It looks like I have a boss to defeat first, though...as soon as I can find out what in the world this game wants me to "look" at in 1st person mode. -_-'
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on August 31, 2010, 11:00:52 PM
The art folio's so soft (it has this soft leather feel to it)... and the cards in it are awesome too.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on August 31, 2010, 11:38:51 PM
Well, I made it to the sequence of events in the Exam building, and I think I'll have to call it a night there. I have to hand it to Nintendo: the old addictive Metroid feeling is still alive and well. Even with my thumb hurting fairly badly from carpal tunnel (seriously, Sakamoto, did you ever take into account that the Wii Remote's D-pad is too small for extended play with games like this?), I didn't want to put it down. So far, I've been pretty satisfied with the game, especially the boss encounters. The dub's not as bad as it looked in the video reviews: oddly enough, Samus' acting is actually more robotic in her internal monologues than when she's talking with the NPCs (who, themselves, sound fine). :Q I do have to agree with a previous poster, though: the sequences where they put the camera right behind Samus' back and make you trudge through environments RE4-style are cinematic and all, but with these controls and as slow as Samus walks in that mode, it's just a chore when that happens. As for the story, so far I'm kind of indifferent to it. It's not offensively bad, but it's not terribly engaging either.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on September 01, 2010, 02:01:31 AM
Sold. If Broodwars, the second biggest sceptic beforehand, is having a good time, it's likely I can enjoy Metroid: Other M. Indifference to the story is all I was expecting and I'm sure the controls will feel natural after an adjustment period - it didn't bother me in Super Paper Mario. As far as the exploration goes... well, I won't know until I see for myself on 3rd September.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 01, 2010, 02:11:24 AM
Sold. If Broodwars, the second biggest sceptic beforehand, is having a good time, it's likely I can enjoy Metroid: Other M.
Only second biggest skeptic?! Who was the smug jerk who actually DARED to hate Other M more than ME?! *Sally Brown voice* HE OWES ME RESTITUTION! ;)
Seriously, it's a pretty decent game. It's not quite what I look for in a Metroid game, the controls are...uncomfortable over extended play sessions, and the game has quite a few goofy elements, but I've been engaged the whole time I've played it. Honestly, that's more than I could say about Super Metroid when I finally got through a full playthrough over the weekend, and certainly more than Prime 2.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: greybrick on September 01, 2010, 03:14:29 AM
Well, I made it to the sequence of events in the Exam building, and I think I'll have to call it a night there. I have to hand it to Nintendo: the old addictive Metroid feeling is still alive and well. Even with my thumb hurting fairly badly from carpal tunnel (seriously, Sakamoto, did you ever take into account that the Wii Remote's D-pad is too small for extended play with games like this?), I didn't want to put it down. So far, I've been pretty satisfied with the game, especially the boss encounters. The dub's not as bad as it looked in the video reviews: oddly enough, Samus' acting is actually more robotic in her internal monologues than when she's talking with the NPCs (who, themselves, sound fine). :Q I do have to agree with a previous poster, though: the sequences where they put the camera right behind Samus' back and make you trudge through environments RE4-style are cinematic and all, but with these controls and as slow as Samus walks in that mode, it's just a chore when that happens. As for the story, so far I'm kind of indifferent to it. It's not offensively bad, but it's not terribly engaging either.
Surprisingly I think I agree with most of what you said. Really I think the story is a promising first step at Nintendo trying its hand at adding more storytelling in games, so it is a work in progress.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on September 01, 2010, 11:12:00 AM
Here's my take after about 2 and half hours of play...
The game is fantastic. All of the reviews proclaiming uncomfortableness in the play control, horrible dialog and voice acting, almost MGS style delivery of cinematic sequences, or even the awkward use of switching to 1st-person view for scanning/missiles are dead wrong.
This game feels like a Metroid game through and through. It's how I originally envisioned the Metroid series would evolve before the entire Prime series came to fruition anyway. I mean, if you couldn't sense the grand cinematic scope of Super Metroid (or even Metroid!) back in the day, and then as you got older and played more evolved 3D type games, and wondered, "Hmmm.. what would Metroid be like nowadays?" ... well, this is how it felt for me.
Samus runs and guns so silky smooth. The digital control is actually quite precise -- you can tell because if you barely tap in any one direction as Samus is standing still, she'll pivot in that direction (you'll also notice this same "pivoting" action is done the EXACT same way in Super Metroid). This makes the switch to 1st-person view so smooth. Oh, and the uneasiness of using this view and flipping the controller to and fro? Try not taking your right hand off the bottom of the remote as you flip it, keeping your left hand at the top -- use your left index finger for holding "B" to scan/lock-on, and use your right thumb on the "1" button to fire missiles or your Power Beam instead of the "A" button...does the exact same thing. This method is SO much easier to keep the controller centered in your grip, making the transition back and forth easier. The same can also be said for the "healing/refilling missiles" move -- use your left thumb on the "A" button as you tilt the remote upwards. This always keeps both hands on the remote at all times. Like I said, so much easier.
And I'll say this, I love the cinematic sequences. Sakamoto and crew have done an amazing job. Samus' voice? I love it. Her internal monologue sounds like an internal monologue, and the voice acting as she communicates to the supporting cast is quite good, too. And the supporting cast is great, too! Anthony Higgs is probably my favorite of the other characters at the moment...he's quite the character. I honestly don't understand all this crap and nonsense that's been spewed out of reviewers' mouths. It baffles me to no extent. This game is fantastic. And the Team Ninja flair that's been added in -- the Sensemove, Lethal Attack, and Overblast -- basic moves that everyone's seen in all of the videos released thus far on the game? They fit PERFECTLY into Samus' arsenal. Fluid, smooth, and fun as hell to execute.
THIS is how I imagined Metroid to be coming into world of 3D gaming. Nice job, Sakamoto and Team Ninja. I commend thee!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 01, 2010, 11:20:30 AM
Here's my take after about 2 and half hours of play...
The game is fantastic. All of the reviews proclaiming uncomfortableness in the play control...are dead wrong.
My thumb says otherwise. After a 3 or so hours of playing with that D-pad, my thumb was in carpal tunnel hell. The control scheme itself is ok. I just wish they allowed us to use the Classic Controller instead, if only for its much larger D-pad (and possibly analog stick).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on September 01, 2010, 11:25:00 AM
Here's my take after about 2 and half hours of play...
The game is fantastic. All of the reviews proclaiming uncomfortableness in the play control...are dead wrong.
My thumb says otherwise. After a 3 or so hours of playing with that D-pad, my thumb was in carpal tunnel hell. The control scheme itself is ok. I just wish they allowed us to use the Classic Controller instead, if only for its much larger D-pad (and possibly analog stick).
I just don't see how you guys can complain about that. Yes, the D-pad is slightly smaller on the Wii remote, but it doesn't give me problems at all. And I don't have small thumbs... hmmm.. Sure, I'd love it if I could control Samus with CC Pro using the D-pad. For reasons listed above in my mini-review, I'm actually very glad that they stuck with the D-pad. I think it might actually feel strange to control her using an analog stick -- based completely on the fact that she traverses small corridors in this game... just like the previous 2D games. It's here that I think the restriction helps.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on September 01, 2010, 12:17:25 PM
So far this seems like it's both a really good game and a really bad game and the two sides are fighting to see which game prevails. I've never played a game where I'll be all like "oh yeah!" and then "ugh" and then back to "oh yeah!" in the span of a few minutes.
The story is actually worse than I thought it would be. I'm not as bothered by the d-pad controls as I am with the first person stuff. It's awkward to switch views and the fact that I can't move when in first person makes things just a little harder then it seems they should be. And what is frustrating about that is Sakamoto's whole "new NES game" bullshit doesn't even hold up because I use A to go into morphball. That's THREE action buttons. The NES only has two. This dipshit already failed at his retarded vision so he might as well have given us options.
There are two things that really bug me that no one has really mentioned. I hate how it's Adam telling me I can't use this or that. What Sakamoto fails to realize is that Adam is not bossing Samus around, he's bossing ME around. I'm Samus, I'm the player. Following orders isn't fun. Why after a day of taking orders from my boss would I want to recreate this in videogame form? This is very much like the three foot high fence you can't cross. Nintendo usually doesn't do that because they're smart. They realize if you make it so the player wants to go somewhere and you don't let him that it will piss him off. So they disguise things a little better so there is no visible unreachable area. If I have not found the bombs I don't think "arrgh, why can't I bomb this?" Early in the game when I tried to bomb stuff I would mouth "**** you" under my breath. I don't do this in Zelda when I don't have the bow because I don't have it. It's a perfectly reasonable explanation why I can't use it then. But this? Why don't I just IGNORE ADAM? I don't give a **** about this douchebag. You think if my life is in danger I'm not going to use my full abilities because some stupid motherfucker said so? It's a convention that makes it frustrating to not have the item, which is something I never felt before in any Metroid game.
The second thing is I hate the new health system. Not being able to replenish health except at save points and with that last ditch refuel thing is annoying enough but I've found something else. In Metroid typically you wipe out weak popcorn enemies to replenish health and missiles. Here I'm just firing endlessly at stupid bugs to get them out of my way. They aren't really a threat but they're in the way and blasting them is, well, boring. Getting health and missiles from enemies brought with it a certain satisfaction and purpose to taking out tons of weak enemies. Without the purpose the whole thing is a chore.
I am overall still enjoying myself. But it seems that any new idea or concept here sucks. Only the existing Metroid conventions are what keep the game enjoyable. With Metroid Prime I enjoyed all the new concepts and felt they worked well with the old ideas.
I do however think that a third person 3D Metroid is doable. The engine for this game could make a great Metroid game in someone else's hands.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheFleece on September 01, 2010, 12:33:31 PM
So far this seems like it's both a really good game and a really bad game and the two sides are fighting to see which game prevails. I've never played a game where I'll be all like "oh yeah!" and then "ugh" and then back to "oh yeah!" in the span of a few minutes.
The story is actually worse than I thought it would be. I'm not as bothered by the d-pad controls as I am with the first person stuff. It's awkward to switch views and the fact that I can't move when in first person makes things just a little harder then it seems they should be. And what is frustrating about that is Sakamoto's whole "new NES game" bull**** doesn't even hold up because I use A to go into morphball. That's THREE action buttons. The NES only has two. This dip**** already failed at his retarded vision so he might as well have given us options.
There are two things that really bug me that no one has really mentioned. I hate how it's Adam telling me I can't use this or that. What Sakamoto fails to realize is that Adam is not bossing Samus around, he's bossing ME around. I'm Samus, I'm the player. Following orders isn't fun. Why after a day of taking orders from my boss would I want to recreate this in videogame form? This is very much like the three foot high fence you can't cross. Nintendo usually doesn't do that because they're smart. They realize if you make it so the player wants to go somewhere and you don't let him that it will piss him off. So they disguise things a little better so there is no visible unreachable area. If I have not found the bombs I don't think "arrgh, why can't I bomb this?" Early in the game when I tried to bomb stuff I would mouth "**** you" under my breath. I don't do this in Zelda when I don't have the bow because I don't have it. It's a perfectly reasonable explanation why I can't use it then. But this? Why don't I just IGNORE ADAM? I don't give a **** about this douchebag. You think if my life is in danger I'm not going to use my full abilities because some stupid mother****er said so? It's a convention that makes it frustrating to not have the item, which is something I never felt before in any Metroid game.
The second thing is I hate the new health system. Not being able to replenish health except at save points and with that last ditch refuel thing is annoying enough but I've found something else. In Metroid typically you wipe out weak popcorn enemies to replenish health and missiles. Here I'm just firing endlessly at stupid bugs to get them out of my way. They aren't really a threat but they're in the way and blasting them is, well, boring. Getting health and missiles from enemies brought with it a certain satisfaction and purpose to taking out tons of weak enemies. Without the purpose the whole thing is a chore.
I am overall still enjoying myself. But it seems that any new idea or concept here sucks. Only the existing Metroid conventions are what keep the game enjoyable. With Metroid Prime I enjoyed all the new concepts and felt they worked well with the old ideas.
I do however think that a third person 3D Metroid is doable. The engine for this game could make a great Metroid game in someone else's hands.
I feel the same way about killing enemies, health, Adam and weapons. Although even though you don't get health or ammo from enemies sometimes after defeating all enemies you find the location of Health or Missles if there any hidden. Even so I am currently stuck and want Super Missles so bad I'm upset about it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on September 01, 2010, 12:51:42 PM
I will mention that being periodically stuck is actually kind of nice because that is part of the Metroid experience for me. Sometimes you just have to stop and figure out what the hell to do next. It's much better than being told exactly what to do. However it isn't quite perfect because the game doesn't let you go back and explore very much so it is possible to be stuck but you can't go back to the save point. So it's either figure it out or turn the game off and lose some progress.
But the feeling of wondering what to do and then figuring out is a real thrill and they have got that right in this game. The atmosphere is also pretty damn cool (I prefer music but this works quite well). Early on there was a part where I could hear some large enemy but couldn't see him. That was some pretty cool foreshadowing.
I think what we need is Sakamoto and Team Ninja with some sort of veto-person filtering the ideas. I'll bet in the past that was Gunpei Yokoi. Metroid Fusion was the first Metroid Sakamoto made without him and that was where all this narrative and linear progression stuff started. Yokoi probably kept him in line.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 01, 2010, 12:51:51 PM
Actually, Ian, I think I did mention that having to have Adam "authorize" that I use my own stuff bugged me earlier. :cool; Really, it's not so much that I don't have equipment that bugs as that the game specifically tells me "Adam hasn't authorized X" when I try to use an upgrade. Early in the game, that error message continually prompted me to mutter "**** you." I don't know why Sakamoto even needed to put in that element. It's not like Super Metroid ever gives an explanation why Samus doesn't have all her gear from Metroids 1 and 2 at the beginning of the game. Even Batman: Arkham Asylum (which is Metroid-like) never explains why Batman doesn't have all his gear at the beginning. He just doesn't, and then has to go back to a safe area or fly in the upgrade he needs.
Or look at Metroid Prime 3 and how they handled it: you had all the basic gear at the beginning of the game, and Samus only got more powerful. I don't know why Sakamoto thought the whole "authorization" thing was really necessary, and it also has a few plot holes. For instance, after the first boss Adam makes a point to let everyone know that "freeze guns are authorized." Isn't one of Samus' weapons a freeze beam? Why, then, can't I use it? Granted, I don't need it at the moment, but there's no logical reason why I shouldn't be able to use it.
As for the health issue, honestly I'm ok with how that turned out. I always found farming enemies for health and ammo tedious, and it always made about as much sense as wild wolves dropping gold in RPGs. I just wish Sakamoto had used a different button combination other than A + Wiimote tilted up. Already several times I've done that I've gone into Morph Ball mode by mistake. Why not just use the B trigger, since it seems nothing else does?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Dirk Temporo on September 01, 2010, 02:16:06 PM
Yes, the D-pad is slightly smaller on the Wii remote,
Unless you have monstrous thumbs, the Wii Remote D-Pad is a lot more than "slightly smaller" than pretty much anything. The only smaller D-Pad pretty much EVER was on the Gamecube remote.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Nick DiMola on September 01, 2010, 02:25:06 PM
Holy crap, Zach, I'm missing the exact same one! Me and Chessa sat there for an hour last night trying to get it, since it's the only one left. So freakin' frustrating!
EDIT: Hey ... where'd Zach's comment go?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 01, 2010, 02:51:40 PM
I found the answer, dude!
Okay, go back to the quarter-circle room where you fought the treeosaur. Run to the left side of the room, underneath the automated wall thing. See the metal surface on the ground? I haven't tried this 'cause I'm at work, but according to the Internet, you can speed boost through the wall underneath the automated lift by running along the metal surface, and this will take you to that mysterious door.
I'm going to try at lunch!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_Neal on September 01, 2010, 05:14:11 PM
I may or may not write a second review for the site, but I can safely say that I really really dig this game. It's more or less what I wanted/expected out of a modern Metroid game. The silly overwrought story is entertaining at the least, and I'm definitely intrigued to see what mildly ridiculous thing is going to happen next. The gameplay is aces for me, and my only complaints are that my hand hurts with the tiny d-pad after a while and the first-person "look for a clue!" moments are sometimes stupid.
But wow. I didn't think I'd like this game as much as I am.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on September 01, 2010, 06:09:20 PM
Some quick thoughts:
1. My issue with the story is rooted more so in the presentation than the plot itself though admittedly, I haven't gotten that far. Quite frankly, Project M is treating the audience like idiots. Anyone who has taken a film class or an introductory writing class.... actually, not even, anyone who has watched a movie or read a book could tell you what they're doing wrong. Show, don't tell. Samus is practically narrating everything she does. Young Samus puts her thumb down, Samus narrates "I gave a thumbs down and now I will explain in full detail why I did that." Voice overs are tricky. I took a screenwriting class where I was told to avoid it at all costs because it's archaic. Yes and no. I think it can work in some instances. In Other M, not so much, at least so far. Samus flat-out says something along the lines of "Adam was a father figure to me." Of course, he is. That's lazy storytelling though. It's almost like Samus is reading the Spark Notes analysis to me.
2. I'm still getting used to the switch to 1st person. It's a littler finicky though I'm sure I'll get it with time so I'm not faulting the game for my lack of skillz.
3. So far, I don't buy the sexism complaints. It would have made more sense if Samus decided to follow Adam's order of authorized weapon use after he explicit made it. I think it's pretty clear, in terms of plot, why Samus is following orders, especially after she spends 45 seconds of my life explaining how much she respects Adam.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: greybrick on September 01, 2010, 06:33:57 PM
I may or may not write a second review for the site, but I can safely say that I really really dig this game. It's more or less what I wanted/expected out of a modern Metroid game. The silly overwrought story is entertaining at the least, and I'm definitely intrigued to see what mildly ridiculous thing is going to happen next. The gameplay is aces for me, and my only complaints are that my hand hurts with the tiny d-pad after a while and the first-person "look for a clue!" moments are sometimes stupid.
But wow. I didn't think I'd like this game as much as I am.
I think Saturday I will head down to the Gamefly Box and rent this one, do you think I can marathon it and suck all the fun out in two days' time?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 01, 2010, 06:35:32 PM
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, BABY!
Unlocks? Not really. Hard mode and the rest of the concept art. I would've liked a Zero Suit Samus character model to rotate and ogle.
Nate, you can totally marathon this game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on September 01, 2010, 06:35:59 PM
Quote
Show, don't tell. Samus is practically narrating everything she does. Young Samus puts her thumb down, Samus narrates "I gave a thumbs down and now I will explain in full detail why I did that."
Early on when she first meets up with the marine dudes she explains that she told Adam why she was there and circumstances leading to going there and stuff. This took longer than if she just told the characters "I answered the distress call" when they asked what she was doing there. They had her say that she told them something instead of having her actually say it when the whole fucking scene is them talking. She meets up with Anthony and gives us this whole spiel about how she knows him. Why doesn't she just say "Anthony Higgs? I haven't seen you since I left the military." I haven't been to film school or taken any writing classes but I've seen enough movies to know that THAT is how it is usually done.
Samus sounds like she's reading us a book. It's like someone had to adapt a book to a screenplay and all they did was give each character their lines from the book and had Samus read everything else. I'm half-expecting her to say "he said..." before every character says something.
This isn't just bad like most videogame stories are bad. It's bad by even low videogame stories standards. Most videogames have retarded stories with okay presentation. Metroid: Other M is a bad story told poorly.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 01, 2010, 06:57:53 PM
I may or may not write a second review for the site,
I think that would be a good idea. I haven't read Halbred's review and I won't until after I have completed the game, but I did see the score, and some of the thoughts he's posted in this and various other threads. It would seem that he had a pretty extreme emotional reaction to the game, and as such, I think it would be a good idea to get a second opinion out there from the opposite end of the spectrum.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 01, 2010, 07:06:43 PM
Mop, if you think my posted review was emotional, I can't WAIT to post my original, uncut, very reactive review as a blog. :-D
The posted review is actually not very emotional. I wrote it days after the original review, having let it all settle in. My basic problem is that the story mode shackles the player from experiencing the kind of enjoyable all-range exploration that Metroid games are all about. The station doesn't actually open up until you complete the story mode, at which point you can go nuts. That's great, but I didn't appreciate having to slog through eight hours of tedious story mode to get there.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 01, 2010, 07:15:24 PM
I haven't read your review yet, but I did see you say that you were going to put your original, raw, negative review as a blog. So, yeah. I'd like to also see a review from someone who is a little less invested in Metroid and more level-headed, that would be closer to my taste.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 01, 2010, 07:32:43 PM
Holy Crap! Amazon says the shipping estimate for my copy is September 7th! That's just the shipping estimate, not counting when it will actually deliver.
But it is my fault, because I opted for Free Shipping.... Ah well, at least I will get it eventually. Still worth it though, because I saved a lot of money doing it this way (no taxes and no shipping equals savings).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 01, 2010, 07:38:37 PM
In my experience, the "shipping estimate" is actually the estimated day it will arrive at my mailbox. For example, when I ordered Super Mario Galaxy 2, it gave me the "shipping estimate" of May 26th. I received the game on May 25th.
Although, I'm pretty sure Amazon sends out shipping notices to email. Did you not get a notice?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 01, 2010, 07:53:36 PM
Okay, go back to the quarter-circle room where you fought the treeosaur. Run to the left side of the room, underneath the automated wall thing. See the metal surface on the ground? I haven't tried this 'cause I'm at work, but according to the Internet, you can speed boost through the wall underneath the automated lift by running along the metal surface, and this will take you to that mysterious door.
I'm going to try at lunch!
Oh man, thank god you figured this out, it was driving me nuts! Me and Chessa just wrapped it up at 100%, doubt we're going to go through the hard mode right now, but it was a fun journey while it lasted. I'll be interested to give it another go at some point soon and see how I feel going into the game without super high expectations.
All in all, I agree with most people's comparisons to Fusion. They feel like similar games in a lot of ways, though I still feel like that was the better of the two games. Regardless, it's a really good game and I'm glad that a different team was able to mess with the formula and try a few new concepts, some of which I hope to see again - namely the layered combat system.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 01, 2010, 08:47:10 PM
I'd like to see a 3D Super Metroid-sized map with all the interconnections but with this game's aesthetic.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_Neal on September 01, 2010, 08:53:13 PM
I haven't read your review yet, but I did see you say that you were going to put your original, raw, negative review as a blog. So, yeah. I'd like to also see a review from someone who is a little less invested in Metroid and more level-headed, that would be closer to my taste.
To be fair, I'm very invested in Metroid. Perhaps I'm a bit more level-headed than Zach (that's entirely subjective. We're both crazy).
But Zach's review is by no means wrong. I actually think his review is very fair, and last time I checked, a 7 isn't a bad score. It's just he didn't enjoy the story section that much. On the contrary, I do, and I also don't see eye-to-eye with Zach on other parts of his review, but I see where he's coming from.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 01, 2010, 08:54:57 PM
So yeah, game is awesome. Beat it and am now trying to get 100% items. HOLY SH!T the final part of it was amazing.
Oh and after beating the game I can truly say the G4 review is complete trash that is nothing more then a joke. Unless Samus suddenly puts on a pink dress and bakes a cake when I get 100% items, there is no sexism in the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 01, 2010, 09:11:52 PM
But Zach's review is by no means wrong. I actually think his review is very fair, and last time I checked, a 7 isn't a bad score.
I didn't say it was wrong, and didn't mean to imply that if I did (the reason I have not read it is because I don't want to know about the game; I will do so afterward). I'm just encouraging posting a second review for the simple reason that, in general (I've suggested this before), I like it when NWR can offer more than one review of a game, especially if people on staff have pretty different opinions. A game like this, which seems to be pretty controversial, is the perfect candidate. I realize it is more work to post multiple reviews, though the second one can come out later on.
NWR used to have multiple reviews for some games, I appreciated that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 01, 2010, 10:28:22 PM
Man, Adam's a pretty incompetent commander. :Q
Adam: "Samus, I need you to go to Sector 3: the volcanic, geothermal testing environment. We'll decide on weapon and suit authorization later. I first need you to go down there and tell us what the conditions are like."
REALLY?! I mean...Christ...REALLY?! You REALLY needed to know what the situation was like in the Lava environment before deciding that letting Samus use her anti-heat Varia suit and Ice Beam was a good idea (especially since he had already authorized his men to use their ice guns at the beginning of the game)?!
*EPIC DOUBLE FACEPALM*
I'd really like to know what possible threat to his men Samus' Varia Suit was that he had to withhold authorization for so long (the grapple beam too, for that matter). At this point, I think he's withholding suit authorizations just to screw with her while he sits all nice and comfy back in the nice communications room. Pretty awesome boss battle in the volcano, though.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 01, 2010, 11:24:42 PM
Okay, go back to the quarter-circle room where you fought the treeosaur. Run to the left side of the room, underneath the automated wall thing. See the metal surface on the ground? I haven't tried this 'cause I'm at work, but according to the Internet, you can speed boost through the wall underneath the automated lift by running along the metal surface, and this will take you to that mysterious door.
I'm going to try at lunch!
Oh man, thank god you figured this out, it was driving me nuts! Me and Chessa just wrapped it up at 100%, doubt we're going to go through the hard mode right now, but it was a fun journey while it lasted. I'll be interested to give it another go at some point soon and see how I feel going into the game without super high expectations.
All in all, I agree with most people's comparisons to Fusion. They feel like similar games in a lot of ways, though I still feel like that was the better of the two games. Regardless, it's a really good game and I'm glad that a different team was able to mess with the formula and try a few new concepts, some of which I hope to see again - namely the layered combat system.
I agree, the formula for the game is something that I hope is further explored in new Metroid games. Team Ninja, I think, has paved a really interesting path for new Metroid games to take advantage of, with some ironing out in places I can see the next Metroid being close to Super Metroid or Metroid Prime in quality, if not surpassing them.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 01, 2010, 11:29:18 PM
Okay, go back to the quarter-circle room where you fought the treeosaur. Run to the left side of the room, underneath the automated wall thing. See the metal surface on the ground? I haven't tried this 'cause I'm at work, but according to the Internet, you can speed boost through the wall underneath the automated lift by running along the metal surface, and this will take you to that mysterious door.
I'm going to try at lunch!
Oh man, thank god you figured this out, it was driving me nuts! Me and Chessa just wrapped it up at 100%, doubt we're going to go through the hard mode right now, but it was a fun journey while it lasted. I'll be interested to give it another go at some point soon and see how I feel going into the game without super high expectations.
All in all, I agree with most people's comparisons to Fusion. They feel like similar games in a lot of ways, though I still feel like that was the better of the two games. Regardless, it's a really good game and I'm glad that a different team was able to mess with the formula and try a few new concepts, some of which I hope to see again - namely the layered combat system.
I agree, the formula for the game is something that I hope is further explored in new Metroid games. Team Ninja, I think, has paved a really interesting path for new Metroid games to take advantage of, with some ironing out in places I can see the next Metroid being close to Super Metroid or Metroid Prime in quality, if not surpassing them.
I agree, Team Ninja is free to stay on and continue working on Metroid games as far as I'm concerned, so long as Sakamoto isn't allowed a blank check to do whatever he wants. I have very few problems with the combat and general gameplay. It's fast, fluid, and feels unique and yet at home with the series. All my problems (the controls, the script, the setting and probably the voice direction) can all be traced back to Sakamoto. Maybe have a senior designer from Retro Studios direct the next Metroid made by Team Ninja?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 01, 2010, 11:44:59 PM
I think it's going to be a while until we see another Metroid game, at least on a console. I think there have been too many of them lately; there were 3 of them from 1987 until 2001, but in just the last 8 years we've had 6. That's compared to 5 mainline Mario games and 4 Zeldas.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: UncleBob on September 02, 2010, 12:03:27 AM
Holy Crap! Amazon says the shipping estimate for my copy is September 7th! That's just the shipping estimate, not counting when it will actually deliver.
But it is my fault, because I opted for Free Shipping.... Ah well, at least I will get it eventually. Still worth it though, because I saved a lot of money doing it this way (no taxes and no shipping equals savings).
Although I did pay sales tax and a whopping 97 cents for the shipping, I got release day delivery with Walmart.com. Very impressed, considering my history with their preorder system.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 02, 2010, 12:20:41 AM
"The Deleter." Wow, Sakamoto...that's really the best name you could come up with for that sort of character. -_-' From now on, let's leave the hilariously stupid-sounding fake names to the professionals like Hideo Kojima, shall we?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_Neal on September 02, 2010, 12:47:49 AM
Mop - It initially sounded like you weren't reading Zach's review because Zach wrote it. I get what you mean now, and because I disagree with Zach in some ways, I do plan on writing a second review.
For the recent times, I can explain why we don't have as many second reviews. Using Galaxy 2 as an example, what could we add with writing a second review? There wasn't really a lot of division on that title. Everyone generally loved it.
Other M offers lots of division, and I personally think a second review is warranted, especially since I know the text for my review would say different things than Zach's.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on September 02, 2010, 01:12:05 AM
Maybe have a senior designer from Retro Studios direct the next Metroid made by Team Ninja?
Why not just have Retro develop it? Yeah, I want them to develop something new, but Retro should expand into more than one team. And so far, even Metroid Prime 2 is better than Other M. Retro is a better developer and they'd done the series justice and then some.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 02, 2010, 01:37:04 AM
Maybe have a senior designer from Retro Studios direct the next Metroid made by Team Ninja?
Why not just have Retro develop it? Yeah, I want them to develop something new, but Retro should expand into more than one team. And so far, even Metroid Prime 2 is better than Other M. Retro is a better developer and they'd done the series justice and then some.
Because I don't want Retro's talent wasted on one franchise when they can either be reviving other Nintendo franchises that have long needed some TLC (like Star Fox) or (heaven forbid!) be making a new IP. Besides, Retro said they were sick of working on Metroid, and I don't want a team that's tired of working on one franchise continuing to pump out more on increasingly less inspiration. I'm perfectly fine with Team Ninja's contributions to this game, and would be happy to see them return to handle the grunt work on another title in the franchise.
Just killed the Lava Fish, which is where I'll put it up for tonight (that's no spoiler. You run into the thing early in the game, so you know you'll be dealing with it eventually.). Man, this may be my favorite collection of boss encounters in any Metroid game, and considering how good the Prime Trilogy's bosses were, that's no small feat. They follow patterns and they're all kind of easy, but they don't fall into the Nintendo trap that other series like Mario and Zelda fall into with the Rule of 3 and they're all fairly exciting (not to mention frequent).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on September 02, 2010, 01:44:52 AM
How's that different than having a senior designer who's supposedly sick of working on Metroid? And do you really think a Japanese developer is going to take kindly to a western designer calling the shots? Something tells me that wouldn't sit too well, especially with an elitist studio like Team Ninja, though maybe that attitude left or at least softened with Itagaki's departure.
Like I said, Retro should expand. Last I checked, they have 80 employees which would give them a chance to work on something new and Metroid. And Retro did get to work on Donkey Kong which is a complete change of pace. I wonder if Retro was tired of working on Prime games. I would like to see what they could do if they were given free reign over the franchise. I don't know if Nintendo would allow it, but I'd still like to see it happen.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 02, 2010, 01:59:12 AM
Why not just have Retro develop it? Yeah, I want them to develop something new, but Retro should expand into more than one team. And so far, even Metroid Prime 2 is better than Other M. Retro is a better developer and they'd done the series justice and then some.
I'm fine with Retro creating another Metroid, but I don't want it to be another Prime game. They are about to get some experience working on a 2D game with Donkey Kong Country Returns, so I wouldn't mind seeing them create a 2D Metroid game. They're a small company though, I don't know how well they could handle developing more than one game at a time.
For the recent times, I can explain why we don't have as many second reviews. Using Galaxy 2 as an example, what could we add with writing a second review? There wasn't really a lot of division on that title. Everyone generally loved it.
That's a good point, I can't think of a game in recent memory on which I wanted a second opinion.
I'm sorry about the confusion, I appreciate all of the work that everyone puts into the site.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 02, 2010, 02:00:08 AM
How's that different than having a senior designer who's supposedly sick of working on Metroid? And do you really think a Japanese developer is going to take kindly to a western designer calling the shots? Something tells me that wouldn't sit too well, especially with an elitist studio like Team Ninja, though maybe that attitude left or at least softened with Itagaki's departure.
Someone has to keep Team Ninja in line, and my main pick (Miyamoto) I'd rather have working on other games. Besides, it gives Nintendo a chance to nurture new talent by giving them a chance at a directing a game, something that could pay off in the future. And considering Retro spent the entirety of the Prime games with a Japanese company calling the shots, I'd say Team Ninja can just grow up and deal with it. Besides, Retro's owned by a Japanese company, so it's not like they were being ordered around by a Bioware Exec.
Quote
Like I said, Retro should expand. Last I checked, they have 80 employees which would give them a chance to work on something new and Metroid. And Retro did get to work on Donkey Kong which is a complete change of pace. I wonder if Retro was tired of working on Prime games. I would like to see what they could do if they were given free reign over the franchise. I don't know if Nintendo would allow it, but I'd still like to see it happen.
I'd only want Retro to expand if they could maintain their high quality standard, and I'd only want them working on Metroid games again if Retro said they wanted to return to the franchise. Maybe they would if Nintendo unshackled them from the icy grip of Sakamoto and let Retro do some of the things they apparently wanted to do in Prime 3 (such as actual bounty hunting).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on September 02, 2010, 02:01:17 AM
And do you really think a Japanese developer is going to take kindly to a western designer calling the shots?
You mean, someone to stand around and arbitrarily authorize certain tasks??
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 02, 2010, 02:17:48 AM
I'm really having a blast with this game but the entire time I'm only thinking about how much better it would be on the 3DS...there are very few games in which I have had trouble judging depth but this is certainly one of the worst for me. Am I the only one with this problem? I finding jumping in and out of the screen somewhat difficult to judge on occasion.
In sweet, delicious 3D this game would be so sweet....and delicious.
Other than that I think this game is really fun. The controls and first-person aspect actually feel pretty good to me, and as I've said before I really enjoy a more Fusion-like linearity once in a while. The voice acting (or direction, whatever) and story are not the greatest but honestly I think some people here are taking their video games a little too seriously. There's always this desire by fans to keep certain Nintendo franchises "pure" in a sense (which explains why everyone freaked out over Metroid Prime Pinball or Tetra's Trackers) but to me experiments like Other M will always be worth it.
In truth I love the atmosphere and composition of past Metroid games more than Other M, but as a breath of fresh air and an indicator of the potential the series holds I think it's just great.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 02, 2010, 03:34:18 AM
retro needs to get back to the dragon game they had.. Yes nintendo, their name is Retro, but that doesnt mean they make RETRO games so literally, it was about style..
but, that aside im sure the next project will be star fox or something. you know, that retro is in..
all sarcasm aside, I can honestly say that I am enjoying Other M very much. MOre so than most games as of late. The game seems to really be catching on in pace and the bosses are getting pretty wicked fun to play. I would have to say that the sense moves are really fun to play around with and they add a good feel to the game.
"Samus, activate the varia option on your suit" uhm.. yeah, really needed an order for that one. heh..
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 02, 2010, 04:06:18 AM
I love Retro and the work they did with the Prime series, but really Metroid needed a fresh direction after 3 MP games. That is what Other M is, a fresh approach to the series and while it may not be perfect, it is an extremely promising first step. I know the first moment where I got to play the game in the training facility I KNEW it was going to be a fun experience, the gameplay alone sets it apart from the Prime games (not in terms of quality but in terms of being a fresh take on the series in 3D). It is exciting to play and to watch as well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: greybrick on September 02, 2010, 04:38:51 AM
I love Retro and the work they did with the Prime series, but really Metroid needed a fresh direction after 3 MP games. That is what Other M is, a fresh approach to the series and while it may not be perfect, it is an extremely promising first step. I know the first moment where I got to play the game in the training facility I KNEW it was going to be a fun experience, the gameplay alone sets it apart from the Prime games (not in terms of quality but in terms of being a fresh take on the series in 3D). It is exciting to play and to watch as well.
The game is exciting to watch; I love the flashy animations and weapons!
I can say that I am darn excited about renting it tomorrow. All of the criticisms I have made about control won't matter all that much if I am only out $2 on the rental. If I like it, I will just marathon all the way through and be happy since I have yet to replay a Metroid game anyhow.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on September 02, 2010, 05:56:58 AM
Yay! Glad people are liking it! :D
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on September 02, 2010, 10:30:57 AM
I absolutely love this friggin' game.
Samus is such a blast to control. Using the control method I mentioned in my previous post in this thread has created such a fluid, smooth play style for me. I love it. And as almost everyone has said, the boss battles are wicked cool. They stay fresh, ignoring the rule of 3s, and they keep you on your toes. Great game so far. I'm loving every second of it.
Hopefully will get to finish it today, too!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on September 02, 2010, 12:26:10 PM
I'm with Broodwars about the Adam authorizing stuff in the lave area. So here I am taking damage every time I'm outside and I still have to wait for the guy to authorize my Varia Suit? Samus must be an absolute dolt then. If you were in the army and were on fire would you wait until your CO told you to put it out? We're talking basic survival here. Though the real offensive thing is that waiting for your CO to tell you you can use X is not nearly as enjoyable as finding the ability yourself. That's one the most appealing features of Metroid for me and Sakamoto has stripped it out.
The health thing keeps fucking me over and making some bosses a real chore. On one hand the continue system is nice because I don't have to go all the way back to the save point but it keeps my health where it was. There are too many times where some enemy gets the drop on me on the way to the boss and eats up a big chunk of health and then I get to the boss with too little energy which I can't replenish. On one hand I've had some pretty exciting boss fights since every time I seem to have no health left but still, it's poor design. It's especially inexcusable in the lava area where I am FORCED to run through a heated area which damages me the whole time and then I have to fight a major enemy in my weakened state. There is NO WAY to avoid taking massive damage before that fight!
Still I had to force myself to stop playing last night because it was getting late. That's a good sign. Flaws aside the game has a certain addictive quality to it. I keep thinking "well, let's get to the next save point."
My least favourite enemies so far are the purple scorpion dudes because they cloak and you need to switch to first person view to hit them with a missile. The problem is they're too damn fast to do that effectively. The controls really don't suit that sort of rapid switching between first and third person. You're more or less a sitting duck any time you switch to first person view.
Zelda should look at the bosses in this as inspiration. They're much more creative than anything Zelda has had since Ocarina of Time. Zelda's biggest flaw is that it is becoming formulaic and that includes the bosses.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 02, 2010, 12:33:00 PM
Still I had to force myself to stop playing last night because it was getting late. That's a good sign. Flaws aside the game has a certain addictive quality to it. I keep thinking "well, let's get to the next save point."
Yeah, to me that's both the best and worst thing about this game: on the one hand, you keep wanting to play to reach the next save area. On the other hand, the game doesn't really feel like you're actually exploring an environment (and the fact that it's all a VR simulation doesn't help). It feels to me like you spend the entire game just racing to the next save point (which is where nearly all your objective markers point) so the door to the passage leading to the next save point is unlocked and the map is revealed. It's hard to explain, but it's one of the things that bugged me in Fusion as well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on September 02, 2010, 12:44:18 PM
Quote
Yeah, to me that's both the best and worst thing about this game: on the one hand, you keep wanting to play to reach the next save area. On the other hand, the game doesn't really feel like you're actually exploring an environment (and the fact that it's all a VR simulation doesn't help). It feels to me like you spend the entire game just racing to the next save point (which is where nearly all your objective markers point) so the door to the passage leading to the next save point is unlocked and the map is revealed. It's hard to explain, but it's one of the things that bugged me in Fusion as well.
To me I suppose it feels more like a level based game where there's that real "one more level" kind of feeling. There's a danger element to it as well. I think "well I've made it this far, let's see if I can make it to there." It isn't exploration so it doesn't really feel like Metroid does but it isn't unenjoyable. It gives me a thrill like a typical action game.
I just realized that while Castlevania went from being an action game to a Metroid-style adventure game, Metroid has been doing the opposite becoming more and more of a straight action game like Castlevania used to be.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: greybrick on September 02, 2010, 02:05:01 PM
I just played through some of the game after renting it early this morning, and my first impressions are: wow!
I am really having fun with this, much more than I expected! The combat feels right, and I dig the environments.
The controls do annoy me, but their workarounds manage to make up for the deficiencies. I do maintain that intentionally crippling the control layout was a bad idea. I am also frustrated whenever I see "Samus has decided to wait for Adam to authorize (name your thing)."
I actually find the story to be both charming and hilarious.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheFleece on September 02, 2010, 04:40:36 PM
Has anyone run into an issue where in Sector 3 after three grapple points there is a door that is supposed to be open? This is after taking the elevator down from the desert area. I killed off the few enemies there, but nothing works. I can't even use the grapple beam to go back. After checking around people are claiming it's a glitch, but I'd rather ask here before I literally restart my game again because I restarted yesterday to check out things I might have missed out in the first run.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 02, 2010, 05:57:46 PM
just out of curiosity, is it a legit copy or running off of a hard drive? i went searching for you and it seems that everyone who has hit this seems to be running off of a drive of some sort. One guy restarted and made it too the same part and the door was green. they had to restart.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheFleece on September 02, 2010, 06:01:07 PM
just out of curiosity, is it a legit copy or running off of a hard drive? i went searching for you and it seems that everyone who has hit this seems to be running off of a drive of some sort. One guy restarted and made it too the same part and the door was green. they had to restart.
Really? My copy is legit. I'll probably restart tomorrow or after the weekend to see what happens.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 02, 2010, 06:22:29 PM
Then I hope I dont run into that. Im in the ice caves somewhere and I have a feeling that point is coming up. (i never expected you or anyone to answer that) Let us know what happens.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: greybrick on September 02, 2010, 06:30:04 PM
Does anyone else get a bright blue bar on the right side of the screen when playing this game? It only shows up on my system when I boot up Other M, and it is kinda distracting.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 02, 2010, 08:42:25 PM
nope, but after my last system died, it sounds likeyour video card is dieing. the black dots of death and all that. I noticed similar things with my old system in games like force unleashed.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: greybrick on September 02, 2010, 08:44:08 PM
nope, but after my last system died, it sounds likeyour video card is dieing. the black dots of death and all that. I noticed similar things with my old system in games like force unleashed.
Well that would just be the worst. I am just hoping it is a problem with this game and progressive scan.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 02, 2010, 09:37:18 PM
Ok, I'm sorry, but Samus panicking and turning in a screaming, scared-to-death little girl (even temporarily losing her Power Suit) just at the sight of Ridley bearing down on her has to be up there among the stupidest, insulting, destructive things I've ever seen done to a character in gaming. Sure, I could understand her being startled at first, but considering the sheer number of times she's taken this particular boss down, this should just be another day at the office for her. And, of course, she has to be saved by a man. I haven't bought into the cries of sexism in this game up till now, but that scene? Oh yeah, that was pathetic.
EDIT: Damn, he's a hard S.O.B., too, if you don't get his pattern down quickly. :confused;
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on September 02, 2010, 11:13:49 PM
If it helps, at this point chronologically Ridley has only fought her twice.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 02, 2010, 11:28:13 PM
If it helps, at this point chronologically Ridley has only fought her twice.
1. Metroid/Zero Mission 2. Metroid Prime 3. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption 4. Super Metroid
I see you conveniently overlooked the Prime games. ::)
Oh, and btw: Section 0 = Biggest frickin' tease in the entire Metroid franchise. :@ I have a feeling now that's what the post game content will cover, but man what a letdown. The story's growing on me, though (it's definitely a darker and more interesting direction than Nintendo usually allows)...sort of, even if I think Metroid Fusion makes even less sense now in terms of the Galactic Federation getting a frickin' clue ("Even Nedry knew not to mess with the ****ing Raptors!").
I'm also kind of curious given recent events how Samus' computer can end up as it is in Fusion, as there seems to be certain data no longer available...
EDIT: And uhh...why don't I have Power Bombs yet? There's absolutely no reason why Samus shouldn't have them now. :confused;
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 02, 2010, 11:39:19 PM
Ok, I'm sorry, but Samus panicking and turning in a screaming, scared-to-death little girl (even temporarily losing her Power Suit) just at the sight of Ridley bearing down on her has to be up there among the stupidest, insulting, destructive things I've ever seen done to a character in gaming. Sure, I could understand her being startled at first, but considering the sheer number of times she's taken this particular boss down, this should just be another day at the office for her. And, of course, she has to be saved by a man. I haven't bought into the cries of sexism in this game up till now, but that scene? Oh yeah, that was pathetic.
EDIT: Damn, he's a hard S.O.B., too, if you don't get his pattern down quickly. :confused;
The scene might be poorly written but it isn't really sexist though. Samus turned into a scared little girl because the sight of Ridley was bringing back memories of when he killed her mother and so she was having a traumatic breakdown because of that. This is once again an anime cliche they love to do to create forced drama. It might be extremely stupid, but it's not sexist since similar things happen to male charactors in anime and videogames as well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 02, 2010, 11:53:54 PM
Ok, I'm sorry, but Samus panicking and turning in a screaming, scared-to-death little girl (even temporarily losing her Power Suit) just at the sight of Ridley bearing down on her has to be up there among the stupidest, insulting, destructive things I've ever seen done to a character in gaming. Sure, I could understand her being startled at first, but considering the sheer number of times she's taken this particular boss down, this should just be another day at the office for her. And, of course, she has to be saved by a man. I haven't bought into the cries of sexism in this game up till now, but that scene? Oh yeah, that was pathetic.
EDIT: Damn, he's a hard S.O.B., too, if you don't get his pattern down quickly. :confused;
The scene might be poorly written but it isn't really sexist though. Samus turned into a scared little girl because the sight of Ridley was bringing back memories of when he killed her mother and so she was having a traumatic breakdown because of that. This is once again an anime cliche they love to do to create forced drama. It might be extremely stupid, but it's not sexist since similar things happen to male charactors in anime and videogames as well.
When it happens with male characters in other properties, though, there's usually actual trauma. I could understand if this was Samus' first crack at this boss, but it's her 5th and she's never shown any reaction like this before (not even in the Prime games). This should be old hat by now.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 03, 2010, 12:02:27 AM
Brood: no, the bonus boss has nothing to do with Sector 0. Sector 0 is gone forever. That whole sequence was a HUGE letdown for me.
And yeah, Fusion makes no sense now. When Samus faces The Nightmare in Sector 5 in Fusion, shouldn't she be all like "you again?"
Also, you do get to use the Power Bomb once...at a critical moment...during a boss fight. You'll know when to use it, even though the game won't tell you it's unlocked now. So if you didn't remember it from the training thing, you'll die a lot.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on September 03, 2010, 12:45:07 AM
If it helps, at this point chronologically Ridley has only fought her twice.
1. Metroid/Zero Mission 2. Metroid Prime 3. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption 4. Super Metroid
I see you conveniently overlooked the Prime games. ::)
Oh my bad I thought the Prime games came after that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 03, 2010, 01:00:16 AM
Must...avoid....spoilers!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2010, 01:09:16 AM
Woah...The Metroid Queen, a callback to Metroid 2. That's cool and all, Team Ninja. I certainly wasn't expecting that. Just one small thing, though: WHAT THE **** DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?! There doesn't seem to be any frickin' way to attack that boss, and he's swarming with extremely annoying pests that are too numerous to Super Missile and don't stay frozen long enough to look around for a clue as to have to attack the boss. ARGH!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on September 03, 2010, 01:12:38 AM
Woah...The Metroid Queen, a callback to Metroid 2. That's cool and all, Team Ninja. I certainly wasn't expecting that. Just one small thing, though: WHAT THE **** DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?! There doesn't seem to be any frickin' way to attack that boss, and he's swarming with extremely annoying pests that are too numerous to Super Missile and don't stay frozen long enough to look around for a clue as to have to attack the boss. ARGH!
Yeah that part sucks ass. Here's what I would do, pre-charge before going into first-person then swap to first person to shoot your super missile.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2010, 01:16:15 AM
Woah...The Metroid Queen, a callback to Metroid 2. That's cool and all, Team Ninja. I certainly wasn't expecting that. Just one small thing, though: WHAT THE **** DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?! There doesn't seem to be any frickin' way to attack that boss, and he's swarming with extremely annoying pests that are too numerous to Super Missile and don't stay frozen long enough to look around for a clue as to have to attack the boss. ARGH!
Yeah that part sucks ass. Here's what I would do, pre-charge before going into first-person then swap to first person to shoot your super missile.
Thanks. That helped a lot. I'm now in a second phase where it looks like the game might actually deign to let me attack the boss.
Sheesh, it's hard to tell now which director Sakamoto is more obsessed with out-sillying: Hideo Kojima or Shinji Mikami. This plot is easily worthy of a Resident Evil game, and it's just as stupidly wordy and cutscene-happy as a Metal Gear Solid game. -_-'
EDIT: Oh joy, a forced 1st person shooting gauntlet without any chance to heal at any time right after a major boss fight in a game where you can't move in 1st person. Sakamoto, YOU SUCK! :@
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on September 03, 2010, 01:43:35 AM
EDIT: Oh joy, a forced 1st person shooting gauntlet without any chance to heal at any time right after a major boss fight in a game where you can't move in 1st person. Sakamoto, YOU SUCK! :@
Yeah that part really sucks ass too. All you actually have to do is look at MB, she's in the middle. You don't have to shoot anyone. Took me a while to figure that out. .
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2010, 01:44:11 AM
EDIT: Oh joy, a forced 1st person shooting gauntlet without any chance to heal at any time right after a major boss fight in a game where you can't move in 1st person. Sakamoto, YOU SUCK! :@
Yeah that part really sucks ass too. All you actually have to do is look at MB, she's in the middle. You don't have to shoot anyone. Took me a while to figure that out. .
Yeah, just figured that out myself.
EDIT: And Main Quest complete, with 73% of the items obtained! Nice to see Samus in a (rather appealing) civilian outfit for a change, instead of her Power or Zero Suits. I really have to wonder where this series is going to go after Fusion in the timeline now, given how the Federation has treated Samus in both Other M and Fusion now.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2010, 02:43:51 AM
btw, let's recap the Federation's Master Plan here: clone a new match of Metroids (after already ordering Samus to destroy their entire race...twice), the most dangerous lifeform known to that universe; render them practically indestructible by removing their only weakness; place them under the control of a sentient AI that can telepathically control them; and then try to mess with the AI. Wow, there was no way in hell that brilliant plan could have gone wrong. -_-'
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 03, 2010, 03:10:59 AM
btw, let's recap the Federation's Master Plan here: clone a new match of Metroids (after already ordering Samus to destroy their entire race...twice), the most dangerous lifeform known to that universe; render them practically indestructible by removing their only weakness; place them under the control of a sentient AI that can telepathically control them; and then try to mess with the AI. Wow, there was no way in hell that brilliant plan could have gone wrong. -_-'
Well, people said it was generic sci-fi. Doesn't get much more cliche than the government genetically engineering an uncontrollable race of killing machines and then making them automated and self-aware without ever once considering the consequences.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2010, 10:24:04 AM
btw, let's recap the Federation's Master Plan here: clone a new match of Metroids (after already ordering Samus to destroy their entire race...twice), the most dangerous lifeform known to that universe; render them practically indestructible by removing their only weakness; place them under the control of a sentient AI that can telepathically control them; and then try to mess with the AI. Wow, there was no way in hell that brilliant plan could have gone wrong. -_-'
Well, people said it was generic sci-fi. Doesn't get much more cliche than the government genetically engineering an uncontrollable race of killing machines and then making them automated and self-aware without ever once considering the consequences.
What's especially hilarious and stupid is that if Sakamoto wants us to take this seriously, then the Federation must be especially idiotic, because they do almost the exact same thing in Fusion.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 03, 2010, 10:36:52 AM
"Oh joy, a forced 1st person shooting gauntlet without any chance to heal at any time right after a major boss fight in a game where you can't move in 1st person. Sakamoto, YOU SUCK! :@ " -broodwars
would that be later in the game?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2010, 10:39:06 AM
"Oh joy, a forced 1st person shooting gauntlet without any chance to heal at any time right after a major boss fight in a game where you can't move in 1st person. Sakamoto, YOU SUCK! :@ " -broodwars
would that be later in the game?
Considering I posted that after posting about a major near-final boss encounter, well...yeah.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_Neal on September 03, 2010, 10:45:06 AM
I think the one thing that was mentioned in the game that makes the Galactic Federation seem less retarded is that the stuff that went down in Other M was done by a renegade group of the GF. It's still dumb, but I think that's their tiny story conceit.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 03, 2010, 10:49:33 AM
heh, thought so but wading through tiers of censored content tends to distract the eye ^.^
oh whats peoples average times through the main game?
edit:: the above mentioned gauntlet.. I was wondering if I was going to get to play a section where no saves, no energy and so on would happen.. Its happened in every metroid that I can think of.. usually only one, but its always after the heat levels.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 03, 2010, 11:26:14 AM
Amazon STILL hasn't shipped my order. God damn it! And I'm further pissed off by how they dropped the price to $45.99 even though I must still pay $49.99 when it still hasn't shipped. Pre-ordering stuff from Amazon sucks!
But on the bright side, I am supposed to get a $20 credit towards a future game, and that better happen or else I'll send it back and get it again at the lower price. Geez, what a bunch of crap!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: bustin98 on September 03, 2010, 11:31:59 AM
Oops, misread what you wrote there...
I'm sure you'll get your credit. When I did a pre-order it was pretty simple how it was handled. There isn't even a spot in your Account details that says you have the credit, but when you check out, there it is.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on September 03, 2010, 12:47:42 PM
I'm fucking stuck on a pixel hunt. GREAT! This is just retarded.
I'm past the point where Samus has to defend herself from the creature that has you pinned down and attacks you with its stinger, and now I have to watch the 4 bozos looking at a dead body on the floor.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2010, 12:49:32 PM
I'm ****ing stuck on a pixel hunt. GREAT! This is just retarded.
I'm past the point where Samus has to defend herself from the creature that has you pinned down and attacks you with its stinger, and now I have to watch the 4 bozos looking at a dead body on the floor.
Turn around. What you're looking for is behind you, away from the troopers.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 03, 2010, 12:50:01 PM
Check your PM caliban,
Flashing back to Metoid on the NES, did anyone ever consider the chozo holding the power ups alive or just statues? I always considered them statues, but then in one of the games, one walks you across an area. If they were alive, they move like turtles.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2010, 12:51:34 PM
Flashing back to Metoid on the NES, did anyone ever consider the chozo holding the power ups alive or just statues? I always considered them statues, but then in one of the games, one walks you across an area. If they were alive, they move like turtles.
Most are statues, some are robots. None of them make any sense (seriously, the Chozo must have amazing precognition to know to place so many duplicates of so much of their equipment in so many locations on so many planets just on the off-chance that Samus would need them).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on September 03, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on September 03, 2010, 01:29:41 PM
Quote
Flashing back to Metoid on the NES, did anyone ever consider the chozo holding the power ups alive or just statues? I always considered them statues, but then in one of the games, one walks you across an area. If they were alive, they move like turtles.
I assumed they were statues left by an ancient civilization. The handful that move in Super Metroid appear to be robots.
I imagine the "Adam authorizes this" method of power-ups in this game comes from a desire to have a plausible reason for Samus to not have her abilities at the start of every game. Ever since Metroid returned with Prime and Fusion there has been some sort of explanation for that. But there was no explanation for Metroid II or Super Metroid and I honestly didn't care. How come Mario doesn't bring a backpack of fire flowers with him everywhere he goes? I just saw it as a videogame convention. In every videogame you die again and again and no real explanation is usually given but who cares? Why do all these enemies I'm facing just absorbs blast after blast until they suddenly die? It's a game. It's how it works and no one questions it. Seriously, they could just start the next Metroid game with no mention of why Samus is without her abilities and she just finds them and I don't think anyone would have a problem with it. Once you start really questioning some of the barebones videogame conventions then you're going to ruin the fun for yourself anyway.
I think it all stems from this idea, that usually western devs talk endlessly about, that games should be immersive. The thing is no jackass is stupid enough to think a game is reality. It is always incredibly obvious that it is a game. So having a health meter and save points and in-game instructions and power-ups and constantly dying and being resurrected with no explanation really doesn't matter.
Other M's attempt to justify Samus regaining abilities crossed the line in that by not having me seek out the power-ups it has hurt my enjoyment of the game. The desire to provide an explanation has interfered with the gameplay. Next time they should not care and just let the game be a game. I never cared about why the Chozo put statues on seemingly every planet - it was just a cool way to get power-ups.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 03, 2010, 01:52:58 PM
I agree with the convention of the slow powerup.. I actually liked the prime way of destroying her abilities in the crash, I thought that was a fun idea. I understand, being with the galatic feds and following their orders (less the varia suit option in the game) and so on. An adventure that deals with samus actually growing up with the chozo would be a great game. I really want to see that relationship and her training. Then, of course with that adventure we would have full out determination to discover the power ups for the first time. There is an overwhelming sense that Samus is ment for more that the Chozo "forsee" but what that is we dont know.
Ahh wishes. Maybe one day they will visit such ideas of past and future.
great input everyone.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 03, 2010, 04:12:14 PM
For the curious, Hard mode (unlocked after getting 100%) is genuinely challenging.
You know all those nice Missile and Energy Tanks and Accel Charges you found the first time through? They're all gone here. You're playing the entire game with 10 missiles and 99 health. I started it yesterday and got quite far into Sector 1, past both Treeosaurs. It's all about dodging, jumping-on-the-headshots, and those finishing moves.
It's quite fun.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2010, 04:15:04 PM
For the curious, Hard mode (unlocked after getting 100%) is genuinely challenging.
You know all those nice Missile and Energy Tanks and Accel Charges you found the first time through? They're all gone here. You're playing the entire game with 10 missiles and 99 health. I started it yesterday and got quite far into Sector 1, past both Treeosaurs. It's all about dodging, jumping-on-the-headshots, and those finishing moves.
It's quite fun.
Is it even possible to get through that first section of the Lava "sector" without the Varia suit and with only 99 Health? :Q I had something like 2-3 Energy Tanks at the point and still had less than 1 just running through that one Lava section my first time in that area.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_Neal on September 03, 2010, 04:16:32 PM
For the curious, Hard mode (unlocked after getting 100%) is genuinely challenging.
You know all those nice Missile and Energy Tanks and Accel Charges you found the first time through? They're all gone here. You're playing the entire game with 10 missiles and 99 health. I started it yesterday and got quite far into Sector 1, past both Treeosaurs. It's all about dodging, jumping-on-the-headshots, and those finishing moves.
It's quite fun.
Wait, so is the game actually more difficult, or is it just difficult because of the low health/missiles?
Either way, I could see myself playing this through Hard mode (a first for any Metroid game for me) after I get 100%, though that might be a slow burn. I'm just missing two items in Sector 2 right now, but everything else is relatively untouched since I got to the post-game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 03, 2010, 04:56:29 PM
For the curious, Hard mode (unlocked after getting 100%) is genuinely challenging.
You know all those nice Missile and Energy Tanks and Accel Charges you found the first time through? They're all gone here. You're playing the entire game with 10 missiles and 99 health. I started it yesterday and got quite far into Sector 1, past both Treeosaurs. It's all about dodging, jumping-on-the-headshots, and those finishing moves.
It's quite fun.
Is it even possible to get through that first section of the Lava "sector" without the Varia suit and with only 99 Health? :Q I had something like 2-3 Energy Tanks at the point and still had less than 1 just running through that one Lava section my first time in that area.
Good question. I imagine you'll be stopping to Concentrate a lot.
Neal, I'm not finding the game itself more difficult, but Samus obviously can't take many hits, and you'll have to be more careful with Super Missiles during boss fights.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on September 03, 2010, 06:13:43 PM
Holy moly. Was that Phantoon I just fought in the post game? That was freaking awesome.
So. Just finished the game with 100% completion and a time of 12:54. I like to explore a lot. :)
That was a phenomenal game. Those G4 dolts should be fired. Did I say fired? I meant fired upon. There, that's better. That was some sick SICK gameplay from beginning to end -- quite possibly my second favorite Metroid next to Super Metroid now. It was incredible.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 03, 2010, 06:45:25 PM
Holy moly. Was that Phantoon I just fought in the post game? That was freaking awesome.
I KNOW RIGHT?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on September 03, 2010, 11:26:21 PM
Well, I bit. I'm playing through Sector 1 now. I like the big tree dinosaur boss.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 04, 2010, 01:27:05 PM
Wow, that's a new one. I was showing a friend of mine Other M's cinematics earlier today through Play Now and I noticed something odd: Team Ninja spliced gameplay footage into the cinematics to make the cinematics flow together better. :Q That's the first time I've ever seen a company take a Theater Mode that seriously.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 04, 2010, 01:29:07 PM
Amazon finally shipped my copy of this game. The delivery estimate is September 10th. :o
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 04, 2010, 03:49:58 PM
Hard Mode is definately doable. I'm very far into Sector 2 now...I just beat the construction vehicle. Oddly enough, the toughest enemies are the jumpy things with tentacles on their backs. They abuse the "jump on Samus and shock her" attack, which takes half your health off.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 04, 2010, 05:57:53 PM
Finished the game with 100% items so everything's unlocked now. To be honest, I'm pretty unimpressed by the post-game content. The new boss isn't all that interesting, must like his original incarnation. He just floats around shooting lots of projectiles that you can easily dodge and counter-attack. And the sequence that follows it is so half-assed it's astounding, not to mention nonsensical (why in the world did Samus leave her damn suit turned off! Are you seriously suggesting that she isn't capable of carrying a frickin' helmet with her free arm in the Power Suit?!.
Overall, I'm satisfied with Other M, though it comes nowhere close to matching the quality of Prime 1 or Prime 3 IMO. It's rare that a Wii game makes me anxious at work to come home and play it, but this one certainly accomplished that. It's a step in the right direction towards doing something new with the franchise, though. Just get a more competent director onboard than Sakamoto, and I can't wait to see what this game might lead to with the franchise.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 04, 2010, 07:22:24 PM
Amazon finally shipped my copy of this game. The delivery estimate is September 10th. :o
When did you order it? Was it a pre-order? I'd be surprised if Amazon didn't have enough stock to ship all orders on the release date.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on September 05, 2010, 12:19:11 AM
I am thoroughly enjoying it so far. I think the voice acting is great and story has me very interested, for a video game anyway. When I first played the demo I could not do first person shooting to save my life, but switching back and forth now is so easy. I have absolutely no problems with the controls at all.
I am so happy Metroid took this direction and hope it sticks for future titles.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 05, 2010, 12:30:34 AM
Amazon finally shipped my copy of this game. The delivery estimate is September 10th. :Q
When did you order it? Was it a pre-order? I'd be surprised if Amazon didn't have enough stock to ship all orders on the release date.
I preordered it. All the way back on August 1st, so it wasn't like I preordered it at the last minute... but I opted for free shipping, and I guess that must have been my mistake.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on September 05, 2010, 12:36:29 AM
I did the free Amazon Prime release day delivery, and they actually overnighted it to make it happen.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on September 05, 2010, 01:06:01 AM
More thoughts
1. Metroid Prime still looks better graphically which is pathetic because it's a nearly 8 year old game. Maybe it's the art design. Still, Samus sans helmet at the end of Prime looked amazing. I remember thinking that no character model in any videogame on any console that generation looked that good. The character models, outside of Samus, are average at best. Team Ninja is capable of better on a non-HD console (Ninja Gaiden on Xbox).
2. I know this is a nitpick, but Retro Studios amended Samus' glaring character design flaw: the arm cannon. Other M went back to the original design. It makes no sense for it to be the same length as her arm. Granted, where she keeps all those missiles and bombs is a whole different story. I liked the cannon longer (that's what she said).
3. Other M is riddled with questionable gameplay choices. Concentration as a means of regaining health is lame. The over-the-shoulder segments only serve to slow the game down. It's supposed to affect atmosphere, but it just fucked with the pacing. Same with the force 1st person investigation segments. Stop slowing me down, Other M! I just want to play the core game.
4. What the hell, Sector 3? I know others have addressed this, but it still begs the question, "What the hell, Sector 3?" Adam doesn't authorize the Varia suit until 75% of the way through that part of the section. While a stretch, I can kind of buy the weapons authorization, but why wouldn't he just let me put my shields up? Emo Samus has so much to f-ing say, but not once was she like, "Um, this intense heat is literally killing me. I might legitimately die in the near future." It just doesn't make any sense at certain points of the game. Before Adam tells Samus to go to Sector 2, you run into a "dead-end." It's only a dead-end because Adam won't let Samus use the grapple beam. "We'll deal with that thing later." No, asshole, just let me use my things and I'll deal with it now. Jesus Christ....
5. Other M has a number of great ideas that are either poorly implemented or just not explored enough. So far, anyway. I like the 3rd/1st person switching, but not enough was done with it and in some cases, it's just terrible. 1st person view just seems like it's in the game because the Wii remote didn't have enough buttons for missiles though I guess the minus button could have been used to scroll through missiles/super missiles in a Super Metroid-esque set-up. Other M doesn't really take advantage of the Wii remote since you have to lock-on to shoot a missile. I would have preferred to use the Classic Controller for this game and nixed the entire first person for missiles thing (being able to look around in 1st person is still a must). At the same time, I would love to see Nintendo try this again but really work on better integrating the different perspectives.
6. Nothing in Other M has really wowed me thus far. In 1994, I remember when Ridley flew towards the screen after stealing the baby Metroid. Then, in 2002, I remember first seeing rain and fog on the visor in Metroid Prime. That was awesome and all...... until I saw Samus' reflection for a brief second. Holy sh*t...
I am having fun with the game; it's just deeply flawed. I want to finish the game first before fully judging it, but so far, it's probably the worst Metroid game to date, taking into account the time period it was released. To clarify, the original Metroid is the worst. It hasn't held up terribly well. However, it's reflective of 1987 game design on top of NES hardware limitations.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: greybrick on September 05, 2010, 01:43:30 AM
Quote
Metroid Prime still looks better graphically which is pathetic because it's a nearly 8 year old game. Maybe it's the art design.
Bingo, I found the Prime games to be much more visually inspired and complex. That and I found the graphics to be a bit more eye-catching in Prime just from a nuts and bolts perspective. When you arrive in that first "outdoor" area in Sector 1 (Other M), all I could think was, "ew."
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on September 05, 2010, 05:43:45 AM
An Amazon box just dropped through the letterbox. I don't have anything else ordered, so this must be Other M. See you all later, I have to go play.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on September 05, 2010, 10:23:10 AM
I am thoroughly enjoying it so far. I think the voice acting is great and story has me very interested, for a video game anyway. When I first played the demo I could not do first person shooting to save my life, but switching back and forth now is so easy. I have absolutely no problems with the controls at all.
I am so happy Metroid took this direction and hope it sticks for future titles.
I'm glad someone else feels the same way I do. I think the game is fantastic, and I, too, really look forward to future Metroid titles using this game engine. Feels great.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on September 05, 2010, 05:46:07 PM
Well, I've played the game a fair bit today. The last thing I did was find an E-Recovery Tank using the Speed Booster in Sector 2.
It's been fun up to the point where I'm at. The action rarely lets up - progression is quick, boss encounters are numerous and always interesting, the sectors are interesting to wonder in despite their linearity and I'm enjoying the upgrade hunting. There seems to be a lot of sneaky missile expansions that play on the fact that the camera is fixed, so they'll be hidden in blind spots with subtle tells that you will find more than first glances would indicate. By the way, it's funny how they took a page straight from the Legend of Zelda book and now have the Metroid equivalent of Heart Pieces. Anyway, speaking of the camera, it is keeping up successfully, yet dynamic enough to give a cinematic feel. Giant lava monster fight = epically awesome.
I'll briefly address the storytelling, in that it's exactly what I was expecting: meh. As several others have already explained, it's not the voice acting (which is of medium quality as far as games go), it's just the scriptwriting is a little off. Probably works better in its native Japanese, but as it is, it's excessively wordy and unnatural. In terms of the plot, it's decent, if a bit nonsensical at times.
Next, the controversial areas. Firstly, I'm finding the controls great. Moving around with the D-Pad took no more than 10 minutes to get used to. The use of the pointer for shooting is also quite seamless and easy to execute. It wasn't obvious straight away, but I realised there is momentary bullet time when you switch to first person to allow you to get your bearings, which was invaluable against the tree giraffe creature. Thanks to the slow motion, it doesn't take long to adapt to the immobility of this mode. The concentration technique, however, remains to be seen. The E-Recovery tank I just collected may help, because while most of the time this mechanic is no trouble to deal with, there are a couple of occasions when it has bitten me in the backside. Perhaps the health threshold for being able to use it is too low.
I'll provide more thoughts tomorrow.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 05, 2010, 06:20:00 PM
"Ahhh RIGHT!!!" Retro highfives self.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 05, 2010, 07:02:12 PM
Finally beat Ridley on Hard last night. Dude's a cheap bastard, and many of his attacks are on-hit-kills. There is a trick you can abuse, though. During the second half of the fight, if you're at full health and he picks you up and drags you around, you can shoot him to stun him (and take health off), and when you land, you have just enough time to recover your health and missiles. He'll just pick you up again!
Repeat for the win.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 05, 2010, 07:09:05 PM
For the first time I listened to the podcast. I heard one great comment in there..
Take the monologue and turn it into text. That would of driven home so much more power.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on September 06, 2010, 12:10:29 AM
Woah...The Metroid Queen, a callback to Metroid 2. That's cool and all, Team Ninja. I certainly wasn't expecting that. Just one small thing, though: WHAT THE **** DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?! There doesn't seem to be any frickin' way to attack that boss, and he's swarming with extremely annoying pests that are too numerous to Super Missile and don't stay frozen long enough to look around for a clue as to have to attack the boss. ARGH!
Same boss. Same reaction. Those creatures are vicious. VICIOUS! I even tried DAaaMan64's idea to charge beforehand. No fun at all.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on September 06, 2010, 12:16:12 AM
Loved all the monologues, I could not stand the very end with the forced first person segments. I just didn't know what the heck to do! And that last boss!For anyone who needs help just go under "it" and start blasting to get "them" all at once where they will collect.
Other than that really loving everything.
Edit: Who was the traitor?
and who gave me a smiting for loving the monologues?
Last thing, how do I hide everything in black to type spoilers?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on September 06, 2010, 12:11:53 PM
I finished the game with 100% completion. It was good, not great.
1. The story wasn't necessarily terrible, just terribly executed due to long cutscenes and numerous storytelling missteps such as on-the-nose dialog, countless show, don't tell moments, infodumping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposition_%28literary_technique%29), and excessive use of voice over. Oh, by the way, plot twist fail.
2. Samus? Respond? Respond? Saaaaammmuuussssss! Fission Mailed. I need scissors. 61.
3. For all of you canon sticklers, Other M certainly did a number on Fusion.
4. I didn't find the infamous Ridley scene to be sexist at all. I understand the effect Sakamoto was going for, but ultimately, it's poor characterization for a number of reasons. Chronologically, it makes no sense here.
EDIT: 5. Best line: "Any objections, Adam?" Then, she activates Screw Attack. Badass. Would have been nice a littler earlier, but oh well.
Pretty sure it was James. You find his body where someone confronts Melissa Bergman (I used this instead of MB because 2 letters might defeat the purpose of spoiler tags) then a shot is heard when the screen fades to black. As you know, Melissa lives to be one of a few predictable plot twists later.
However, shame on you, Caterkiller, for not knowing this. James was the only one with a molestache, you should have known he was bad from the get-go. And unless I missed something, I found it odd that after the yellow Metal Gear battle, Samus doesn't go looking for him or anything.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gojira on September 06, 2010, 01:23:20 PM
Just beat the game and I have to say I basically loved it overall. It's not perfect, but I still had a lot of fun. I don't understand the poor reviews the game has gotten. Under some fairly surface level complaints, the game is still very much Metroid.
I really didn't have any issues with the story personally. Of course I'm the type that has read all the Metroid comics and what not, so I've never really had this "Samus must be a lone warrior" conceit for the series. Also having played the previous 2d Metroids it's pretty obvious the Metroid series was headed this way. Metroid Fusion received a lot of the same complaints. I guess a skip option for the cutscenes would've appeased some people, but I would never have used it. The whole story/cinematic aspect of Super Metroid is one of the reasons it had such a great impact on me and remains my favorite game ever. So I won't begrudge a Metroid game for expanding in that way.
The controls are not nearly as awkward or funky as you would think controlling a 3d game with a dpad and switching between 3rd and 1st person perspective. However it is obvious to me that using a nunchuck would have been a great option to have. But even so I was still able to switch fairly quickly and dodge and all that fairly easily. Later I found out you actually can dodge in 1st person mode. RTFM I guess. And I would've loved to see melee utilized more. I just really enjoyed that aspect of the combat.
For my actual issues with the game, which are very minor. The pixel hunt scenes in the game. It seems that the target area you have to scan is pretty small. It's not enough to scan the dead guy, you have to scan the emblem on his chest. But like I said there are only a few of these scenes so it doesn't affect the game overall, but it is weird that it's even in there.
My only other real problem is with the music. It's not bad or anything. But it is more subdued that what Retro did in the Prime series. The music in Prime takes what was done previously in the Metroid series and then expands on it greatly. So the understated music in Other M is somewhat disappointing for me.
Like I said it is overall a great game. I love how it ties to the main line Metroids, especially Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion. And you have to give the game some love for having the speed booster and a bit of shine sparking.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on September 06, 2010, 01:52:09 PM
Thanks Adrock, and yes I should have known.
I really enjoyed this game, the only thing I out right did not like was pixel hunts because I just did not know what the heck to look for, and when I was in the right place I wasn't in the right place. Then there were certain times when I tried to lock on to something in first person during a boss fight by my target would be drawn else where. Now I understand where ever the target went thats what I needed to hit, but it wasn't that clear during certain fights.
I very much enjoyed the story, I wasn't jumping up and down when certain things happened or tried to get major emotion out of me, but for a game (now a'days I see game stories for what they are) I was entertained. I know we used to and probably still do see Samus as some loner bad apples but if this is Sakamoto's vision of her I can accept it. The first time Samus appeared to be anything but an inhuman fighting machine was in Fushion and then again in Prime 2 when she gave her silent respects for the fallen soldiers.
Besides that I was so sick of Sci Fi female Link, it's nice to see another Nintendo franchise take up voice acting and a more story driven approach and flesh out a seemingly rich world.
And get Ridley in the next smash bros! Shrink him somewhat to a bowser size and let him loose. I thought he was great in this game. Unlike Prime 3 where he appeared to be a mindless beast, did he really have to charge like a bull? you know winding up like Rambi the rhino before a stampede?
Oh and can someone please explain Ridley in this game?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on September 06, 2010, 02:02:10 PM
The only things I strongly dislike so far are the pixel-hunting portions and the over-the-shoulder segments (really just the one loooong one I've encountered so far, when you find the Zebesian with the Galactic Federation suit. Short over-the-shoulder segments aren't a big deal.) Those are such small parts of the game that it's not really tainting my overall experience, which is quite positive.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on September 06, 2010, 04:15:21 PM
Oh and can someone please explain Ridley in this game?
From what I understand, the Galactic Federation extracted cell samples from Samus' suit after the events of Super Metroid. They just haphazardly cloned whatever cells they could find stuck to Samus' suit. One of the cell samples was Ridley's, except no one realized it was Ridley because it was just that little fuzzy white thing so they raised it as a pet for whatever reason. It plays dead then attacks a scientist and escapes. Throughout the course of the game, baby Ridley eats enough then becomes that lizard thing that tries to stab you with its tail outside of the Biosphere Testing Area then eventually Ridley's adult form. Basically, the Galactic Federation chose Charmander and it evolved into Charmeleon and finally, after gaining enough experience, he evolved once more at level 36 to become Charizard.
I believe the Galactic Federation's plan was to clone the Space Pirates, including Ridley, to act as special forces for them except they didn't know they cloned Ridley yet which is further complicated by the fact that Ridley's presence made all the pirate clones go crazy. I think the Galactic Federation decided to abandon that plan when they started cloning Metroids, stripping them of their one weakness, and attempting to use MB to control them. I'm a little unclear on the time span of all of this because that seems like an awful lot of things happening so soon after Samus fucked up Zebes. Additionally, this seemed like a perfect opportunity to hearken back to Metroid Prime 3 and the Aurora units, but since Sakamoto repeatedly curbstomps continuity and practically pretends that the Prime series exists/counts, I guess I'm asking too much.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 06, 2010, 06:48:47 PM
I beat Hard mode last night. You get NOTHING. I was PISSED. Don't freaking bother.
I've come to the conclusion that either Other M is not canon, or Fusion has been taken out of the continuity. There is so much repeated in Fusion (because Fusion supposed takes place AFTER Other M) that Samus should've been like "This again?" almost every breath in Fusion. Seriously.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on September 06, 2010, 07:58:06 PM
Holy crap @ Japanese box art (http://metroid-database.com/news-post.php?id=387). It's more than you think.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 06, 2010, 08:02:07 PM
I have to disagree with whoever wrote that, Japanese boxarts are NOT usually better than ours. Sometimes they are, usually they are worse IMO.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 06, 2010, 08:11:54 PM
I have to disagree with whoever wrote that, Japanese boxarts are NOT usually better than ours. Sometimes they are, usually they are worse IMO.
Yeah, I've never understood how the Western tendency to focus on more complex images makes them "worse" and the Eastern tendency to focus on minimalistic images makes them "better". Sometimes the Japanese covers are better, but a lot of times they're about equal or worse IMO.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gojira on September 06, 2010, 11:38:37 PM
Yeah, I've never understood how the Western tendency to focus on more complex images makes them "worse" and the Eastern tendency to focus on minimalistic images makes them "better".
It's because some people like minimalism more than complexity.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 07, 2010, 10:01:19 AM
and some people need at least three samus on a cover, or at least 2 ^.^
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on September 07, 2010, 12:57:28 PM
I usually prefer Japanese cover art because often it looks more like it's supposed to be artistic while North American cover art usually looks like an ad. The North American art is to grab your attention at the store but doesn't look so nice on your shelf at home.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 07, 2010, 01:29:26 PM
Well, seeing as how a lot of gamers (myself included) tend to either stack their games or put them on a shelf like books the cover is very rarely seen anyway. Don't get me wrong... its nice to have a good looking cover, but in the scheme of things it ranks pretty low as far as what actually matters with a game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 07, 2010, 01:32:55 PM
Same here, the only time I ever actually see the front of the box is when I am getting the disc out (or putting it in). That's why I laugh when I hear someone say they would pay more for the non-Player's Choice/Greatest Hits/Platinum Hits box.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Morari on September 07, 2010, 02:48:32 PM
You mean you guys don't frame and mount all of your video game cases on the wall? You should really give it a try! Nothing impresses a girl more than to see that hanging in the living room. ;)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on September 09, 2010, 01:58:10 AM
In sector 1 far off to the right side of the map there is a room with a missile upgrade just sitting up on the balcony with a door right behind it. Another door is locked and I can not find the entrance to that balcony. I imagine it would be the very last upgrade one would get in Sector 1. Far off to the right end of the map, in the room right after the final save station. Any help?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: SixthAngel on September 09, 2010, 02:30:05 AM
Two words about western box art: Angry Eyes.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 09, 2010, 03:48:24 AM
I would display my boxes and cases if I had a space and setup that would allow it. I've been trying to think of some way to display them, since I have them I figure I might as well get some sort of use out of them if I can.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 09, 2010, 09:05:37 AM
In sector 1 far off to the right side of the map there is a room with a missile upgrade just sitting up on the balcony with a door right behind it. Another door is locked and I can not find the entrance to that balcony. I imagine it would be the very last upgrade one would get in Sector 1. Far off to the right end of the map, in the room right after the final save station. Any help?
The entrance you're looking for is in the room with the staircase and broken glass enclosure several rooms in.
Just an FYI to fellow OCDs, there is one missile tank that you can't get until you defeat the Bonus boss in the post-game content. That's your only chance to grab it, so make sure it's the last one you have to get before you fight that bonus boss.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 09, 2010, 01:13:21 PM
In sector 1 far off to the right side of the map there is a room with a missile upgrade just sitting up on the balcony with a door right behind it. Another door is locked and I can not find the entrance to that balcony. I imagine it would be the very last upgrade one would get in Sector 1. Far off to the right end of the map, in the room right after the final save station. Any help?
The entrance you're looking for is in the room with the staircase and broken glass enclosure several rooms in.
Just an FYI to fellow OCDs, there is one missile tank that you can't get until you defeat the Bonus boss in the post-game content. That's your only chance to grab it, so make sure it's the last one you have to get before you fight that bonus boss.
Incorrect! Caterkiller, I had problems with that exact same missile tank. Go back to the quarter-circle room where you fought the Treeosaur. Go the left side of the room--you'll find a metal path on the floor. Use the speed boost on that path away from the camera--you'll smash through the wall, which leads into the mysterious door.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 09, 2010, 01:14:33 PM
In sector 1 far off to the right side of the map there is a room with a missile upgrade just sitting up on the balcony with a door right behind it. Another door is locked and I can not find the entrance to that balcony. I imagine it would be the very last upgrade one would get in Sector 1. Far off to the right end of the map, in the room right after the final save station. Any help?
The entrance you're looking for is in the room with the staircase and broken glass enclosure several rooms in.
Just an FYI to fellow OCDs, there is one missile tank that you can't get until you defeat the Bonus boss in the post-game content. That's your only chance to grab it, so make sure it's the last one you have to get before you fight that bonus boss.
Incorrect! Caterkiller, I had problems with that exact same missile tank. Go back to the quarter-circle room where you fought the Treeosaur. Go the left side of the room--you'll find a metal path on the floor. Use the speed boost on that path away from the camera--you'll smash through the wall, which leads into the mysterious door.
Damn, I was referring to the missile tank on the balcony in the main sector. I forgot that "Sector 1" specifically refers to the jungle environment. :P:
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on September 09, 2010, 07:11:49 PM
Both of you gave valuable information! I had a feeling about that "ungettable" missile tank, figured that was it. Thanks guys!
Also I am having a blast searching for everything after the credits role. I don't mind that the story unlocks new abilities but it would have been nice if some "real" abilities not used for the story were hidden about. Though I don't hate the new system I would rather search for new power ups, or even get them from bosses like the prime games did.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 09, 2010, 07:24:27 PM
Yeah. As it stands, you only get upgrades from two mini-bosses: the Diffusion Beam and the (usless) Seeker Missiles.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: UncleBob on September 09, 2010, 10:07:01 PM
Jesus, the boss battle with the Metroid Queen is a bitch.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on September 09, 2010, 10:50:52 PM
I had to watch a YouTube video of that boss fight just so I could understand what I had to do.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 09, 2010, 11:31:08 PM
Jesus, the boss battle with the Metroid Queen is a bitch.
After I figured out what to do, I thought it was somewhat easy. I thought the most difficult boss was easily Ridley, though that's partly due to how wild the camera is in that fight.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on September 10, 2010, 12:21:56 AM
Yeah. As it stands, you only get upgrades from two mini-bosses: the Diffusion Beam and the (usless) Seeker Missiles.
Can you even use the Seeker Missile outside of the few doors that require it?
You sure can. As long as there are multiple enemies in front of you, just charge the Super Missile, and it automatically selects nearby enemies to dispose of, too. Works really well!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 10, 2010, 04:50:43 AM
Well, my copy of the game finally arrived in the mail today. Tomorrow I will start it and finally begin to experience what all of you have been experiencing for the last week and a half.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: UncleBob on September 10, 2010, 09:08:41 AM
Jesus, the boss battle with the Metroid Queen is a bitch.
After I figured out what to do, I thought it was somewhat easy. I thought the most difficult boss was easily Ridley, though that's partly due to how wild the camera is in that fight.
Really? I thought Ridley (spoiler space) was pretty straight forward. It was a long battle, but not too difficult. In fairness, the Metroid Queen herself wasn't that hard - it was those fickin' Metroid mo-fo's all dodging my shots and stuff. The fight scene looked pretty cool, though.
Question, though: If Metroids hatch (and they do, we saw the eggs) why the heck are they being ejected from the Queen's back like spores from a plant or some crap? Does she carry them around like a Kangaroo?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 10, 2010, 12:52:26 PM
I don't think Metroids HAVE a canonical breeding method. They hatch from eggs in Metroid 2, Other M, and Corruption. They are incubated in brood pouches in Echoes, and they reproduce via fission in Prime and Corruption.
It's annoying.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on September 10, 2010, 02:35:06 PM
Metroids were artificially created lifeforms, if I'm not mistaken, but given their high rate of mutation it's unsurprising they would have demonstrated multiple methods of reproduction.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 10, 2010, 04:24:45 PM
Even on Earth there are lifeforms capable of multiple forms of reproduction. Amongst alien life the sky is the limit. So don't try to nitpick it too much.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 11, 2010, 04:16:43 AM
I've been playing this game for several hours today. The first and only time I got stuck was at the very beginning where Samus' ship docks inside the Galactic Federation ship thing, and there you have to examine the area looking for something. The problem is I had no idea what I was looking for, and I got frustrated and must have spent 20 minutes or so mashing buttons and doing everything I could do in the hope that something would finally work. Finally, I just gave up and went to GameFAQs and learned that what I actually needed to do was aim my cursor at the tiny emblem on the federation ship docked next to me... Ugh...
It made me feel like an idiot, but after I got past that the rest (so far) has been very smooth sailing and I'm well into the adventure at this point. But now I finally understand that "Pixel Hunting" business people referred to earlier in the thread and see why people complain about it. But hey, you can look at it like a mini "where's Waldo?" game where the pixel thing you're searching for is Waldo... if you think about it like that I guess its a bit more tolerable. I've ran into those pixel hunts several times since that first time but now that I understand it I haven't got stuck since that. But why the hell did the developers have to have something so confusing and unnecessary right at the very start of the game? I can't help but think other players besides me got frustrated there, and perhaps some players even gave up right then and there and missed out on an otherwise cool game just because of something trivial that didn't need to be there at all.
Oh well... but the game is very cool despite that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on September 11, 2010, 10:14:29 AM
I've now finished my first run-through of the the game (not yet dabbled into the epilogue) with something like 39 Missiles, more or less, 5 Energy Tanks, possibly 4 Accel Charges and 2 E-Recovery Tanks. Final impression: an enjoyable first stab at this new direction for Metroid. Touch up a few bits & bobs on the presentation side and they'll really be onto something with this.
In the end, I'll call the story and its exposition passable. Once the big secret about the Bottle Ship was revealed, I was reminded of I, Robot a great deal. The whole idea of cloning the Space Pirates, Ridley, the Metroids etc. and then putting them in the hands of a artificial intelligence that becomes too intelligent for its own good is quite like the NS-5s being corrupted by V.I.K.I., in that it was so clearly NOT a good idea in the first place. Maybe it's not told in the most elegant fashion, but it's a good enough story conceit for having Planet Zebes environments inside a man-made facility.
The game design, on the other hand, has many, many things to commend about it in spite of the more linear structure. Plenty of scavenging for expansions - I particularly enjoyed attaining those that leveraged the Shine Spark - and a healthy dose of backtracking. In fact, some of the changes to the gameplay that people have been chastising didn't bother me much because, in all honesty, they aren't actually big changes at all. For example, the manner in which you get all your power-ups, sans the Diffusion Beam and the Seeker Missile, which are discovered the conventional way. The one everybody seems to love to hate is the long trek through Sector 3 before unlocking the Varia Suit. But is it really all that different to running through Norfair or Magmoor Caverns before you find the Varia Suit? I agree that in a narrative sense, it is a little absurd that certain powers are withheld, but in a game design sense, it's how it has always been, just presented slightly differently. In Other M, the great satisfaction of moving through a fairly challenging area to find an upgrade which makes said area a breeze to go back through is definitely still there. I loved travelling on the path to Sector Zero, where the weird gravity effects are in place, and then through it later with the Gravity Suit, negating those effects.
Graphically, it ranks up there near the top, a tad below Galaxy, Corruption and Brawl for best visuals on Wii. Aurally, it has its ups and downs. The dramatic music is great to listen to when it is there, but everything is surprisingly quiet a lot of the time, more so than I was expecting from reading the reviews. Prior Metroid titles have proven that music can offer memorable melodies and atmosphere at the same time, so I would have this aspect of the game differently, but it isn't a killer.
That's all I have to say. I might back for 100% completion some time in the future when I have no other games to play.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 11, 2010, 02:32:44 PM
I beat this game 100%. I haven't really read much of the thread, but I'm sure other people have already expressed similar thoughts, so I'll keep this brief.
I really enjoyed this game. There may not be much exploration, but there are a lot of little secrets to find, a lot of interesting enemy encounters, and some fun-to-use gadgets. The Speed Booster was one of my favourite items in Super Metriod, but you don't get to use it enough! There's more places in it for this game, so it was great to see it here. I didn't really see what's so bad about the story. It's pretty basic sure, and somewhat derivative, but I don't think that makes it bad. There were a couple of parts that made me groan, either in disbelief at how poor it was, or in disgust, but not as many as I was expecting.
Now, for the obvious. The controls are a problem. However, this may have more to do with the game mechanics than with the actual control layout, as I think the only real issue is having to point at the screen to enter first-person mode. This is slow and clunky, definitely nowhere near as responsive as a button would be, and I never know which hand the Wiimote would end up in. Beyond that, it isn't possible to dodge in first-person mode when charging up. These two issues could have been solved with Nunchuk support. As for the mechanic side, missiles aren't as useful as they could be since they can't be fired in first-person mode. Instead, it should have been that missiles can be used any time, but will only have a homing capability if you go into first-person and lock-on. Also, especially with certain bosses, the hyperactive camera can sometimes make it difficult to dodge. Like if there's a close up on a boss and I get hit by an oncoming projectile because I can't see it, or because of how quickly the game sometimes switches between a cutscene and gameplay.
All in all, it's a great game hindered by some poor mechanics. I like what I've seen here, and I hope another Metroid game is made in this vein, but maybe on an actual planet this time.
The first and only time I got stuck was at the very beginning where Samus's ship docks inside the Galactic Federation ship thing, and there you have to examine the area looking for something.
I was there for a few minutes meself. I think those moments are supposed to add immersion to the game, having you seek out what Samus is supposed to see rather than just showing it in a cutscene. But it isn't always clear what you are to find, and I found myself rapidly mashing the "B" button on everything until I got it. Took me right out of the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: AV on September 11, 2010, 03:04:20 PM
hey guys I made this video on youtube:
Metroid Other M:: TV commercial Dissection (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4yp1hk30Ew)
I got the Metroid other M TV ad and just analyze it the parts of it. It's a great video for all metroid fans
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TheFleece on September 11, 2010, 04:23:37 PM
Has anyone run into an issue where in Sector 3 after three grapple points there is a door that is supposed to be open? This is after taking the elevator down from the desert area. I killed off the few enemies there, but nothing works. I can't even use the grapple beam to go back. After checking around people are claiming it's a glitch, but I'd rather ask here before I literally restart my game again because I restarted yesterday to check out things I might have missed out in the first run.
I replayed on another save slot and the door wasn't locked and I was able to progress. I didn't save over the messed up file, I might keep it for a while. The good thing about replaying a game like Metroid is knowing where to get items and in Other M's case is knowing exactly where to look in those first person sequences. I was hoping for more of a fight from Ridley. I'm at the Metroid Queen and so far I'm losing, but I'll try again later.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 11, 2010, 07:50:35 PM
This game is awesome. I don't care what anyone else says. :)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on September 11, 2010, 09:55:11 PM
How do I get the very very very last missile upgrade?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 11, 2010, 10:38:11 PM
You'll have to be more specific. Where is it?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on September 12, 2010, 12:00:11 AM
It is the one that is sitting in the same room as Samus's gun ship. It is high up on the left on a balcony, seems you have to get it from another room. I read it can only be aquired once Samus is running for her life during the count down.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 12, 2010, 12:09:35 AM
That isn't true.
I think I know which you are talking about. Go to the room that leads to the bathroom. There's a place upstairs in that room that has a glass enclosure. There is a vent you have to bomb and then travel through there.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on September 12, 2010, 01:09:03 AM
Thankilydankily!
For some reason I really hated the idea of man made ecco systems in Fusion, and absolutely loved them in this game. I might have a new respect for the areas in Fusion if I go through it again.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 12, 2010, 02:16:02 AM
This game is sorta giving me a Jurassic Park vibe right now.
I'm talking about those weird giant tree things with seahorse heads that shoot energy at you. They walk on four legs and remind me of Brontosauruses
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Enner on September 13, 2010, 02:47:08 AM
I beat Hard mode last night. You get NOTHING. I was PISSED. Don't freaking bother.
I've come to the conclusion that either Other M is not canon, or Fusion has been taken out of the continuity. There is so much repeated in Fusion (because Fusion supposed takes place AFTER Other M) that Samus should've been like "This again?" almost every breath in Fusion. Seriously.
Heh, we've gotten too used to achievements and unlocks. This is certainly NES like in that it's harder just cause. Though, I guess it wouldn't have hurt for there to be a special picture or something.
As for Fusion, I think the path of least resistance for post-Fusion game would be to just barrel through it and leave a mess of contradictions. Seeing as how seems to disregard the story of the Prime games, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for him to retcon things as he sees fit. I think this is a good thing since it would set precedent for future Metroid games to not be shackled to story continuity.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 13, 2010, 05:18:33 AM
I'm with Broodwars about the Adam authorizing stuff in the lave area. So here I am taking damage every time I'm outside and I still have to wait for the guy to authorize my Varia Suit? Samus must be an absolute dolt then. If you were in the army and were on fire would you wait until your CO told you to put it out? We're talking basic survival here. Though the real offensive thing is that waiting for your CO to tell you you can use X is not nearly as enjoyable as finding the ability yourself. That's one the most appealing features of Metroid for me and Sakamoto has stripped it out.
Yeah, I definitely agree Adam not authorizing the Varia suit is pretty damn retarded. I can sorta understand the logic of him not wanting Samus to use Power Bombs on the basis that they could severely damage the ship or something like that, but banning her from using a suit of armor is flat out bullshit. That's like not authorizing a construction worker to wear a hard hat, what the hell? Not authorizing weapons is one thing, but Adam shouldn't prevent her from using defensive armor and so forth.
But as far as Samus not going against Adam's orders and doing it anyway, I've been thinking about that. I suppose its possible that it might just be a matter of her not really having any choice, because Adam may have some sort of control over the technology in her suit and can shut parts of it off at will. I don't know if he really has that control, but if he does it could explain why she can't go against his orders. It seems like I remember in Prime 3 when Samus was on the GFS ship the crew were able to deactivate her weapons or something... I guess something like that may be going on here as well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on September 13, 2010, 09:55:35 AM
I beat Hard mode last night. You get NOTHING. I was PISSED. Don't freaking bother.
I've come to the conclusion that either Other M is not canon, or Fusion has been taken out of the continuity. There is so much repeated in Fusion (because Fusion supposed takes place AFTER Other M) that Samus should've been like "This again?" almost every breath in Fusion. Seriously.
Heh, we've gotten too used to achievements and unlocks. This is certainly NES like in that it's harder just cause. Though, I guess it wouldn't have hurt for there to be a special picture or something.
As for Fusion, I think the path of least resistance for post-Fusion game would be to just barrel through it and leave a mess of contradictions. Seeing as how seems to disregard the story of the Prime games, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for him to retcon things as he sees fit. I think this is a good thing since it would set precedent for future Metroid games to not be shackled to story continuity.
With a post-Fusion game I'd just say "go nuts". Have Samus turn against the GF (she was headed for court martial at the end of Fusion), use her Metroid cells to regenerate energy by sucking it out of GF soldiers and just wordlessly devastate the main base of the GF as retribution for all the crap they've pulled.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 13, 2010, 09:57:36 AM
As for Fusion, I think the path of least resistance for post-Fusion game would be to just barrel through it and leave a mess of contradictions. Seeing as how seems to disregard the story of the Prime games, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for him to retcon things as he sees fit. I think this is a good thing since it would set precedent for future Metroid games to not be shackled to story continuity.
No, please keep Sakurai away from anything related to the story or controls of future Metroid games.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 13, 2010, 12:39:00 PM
I would like to see a rebellion of sorts on her part. As of now, shes more a contractor than bounty hunter. Why not take her character down that path, maybe even perhaps, take her down the path of evolution of sorts, become a new mb that can produce metroids. She could think shes doing the right decisions in her story arc, but the parasitic side of her now dictates her subconscious, building her into the new "evil" that ultimately she has to purge somehow. Causing her to seek out new "upgrades" through life forms in order to gain the power needed to shed. each time she upgrades though, it tips a consequence meter that would influence "variables" in her outcomes, it would be a choice that would have to be made and in the end, only she can save herself from this path.
And then, as a counter prequel on the current hand held, release Samus Origins, which would be a game that has training with the chozo and why she is there. So we could have two side by side games that both follow the same idea of new birth.
That would be fun.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on September 13, 2010, 01:42:08 PM
I would like to see a rebellion of sorts on her part. As of now, shes more a contractor than bounty hunter. Why not take her character down that path, maybe even perhaps, take her down the path of evolution of sorts, become a new mb that can produce metroids. She could think shes doing the right decisions in her story arc, but the parasitic side of her now dictates her subconscious, building her into the new "evil" that ultimately she has to purge somehow. Causing her to seek out new "upgrades" through life forms in order to gain the power needed to shed. each time she upgrades though, it tips a consequence meter that would influence "variables" in her outcomes, it would be a choice that would have to be made and in the end, only she can save herself from this path.
And then, as a counter prequel on the current hand held, release Samus Origins, which would be a game that has training with the chozo and why she is there. So we could have two side by side games that both follow the same idea of new birth.
That would be fun.
Oh, that sounds great, man. I'd love to see this happen. I really would love to see a prequel Metroid game that deals with Samus growing up and becoming part of the Chozo species. But what you suggested sounds like a great idea, and I could see it implemented very well into a video game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on September 13, 2010, 02:07:06 PM
I was thinking earlier how strange it is to play a Metroid game that not only doesn't have any references to Chozo, but doesn't have any references to any ancient, wise and extinct alien races at ALL. After 3 Metroid Prime games that feels very different.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 13, 2010, 02:10:45 PM
While I don't care for some of the more fanciful post-Fusion ideas I've heard, I do agree that Nintendo has to do something interesting and new with the plot. After all, the Federation has now pretty much tried to screw-over/kill Samus for 2 games now. Logically, you would have to assume there would have to be some backlash against them now. Maybe in the next game, Samus takes the fight to them?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on September 13, 2010, 04:57:01 PM
Are there any other major groups in the galaxy besides the Galactic Federation and the Space Pirates? Maybe the Federation could get in a war with some third party and Samus would be forced to pick sides.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 13, 2010, 05:05:22 PM
I was thinking earlier how strange it is to play a Metroid game that not only doesn't have any references to Chozo, but doesn't have any references to any ancient, wise and extinct alien races at ALL. After 3 Metroid Prime games that feels very different.
There are Zebesians in the game. Since their native planet Zebes was destroyed, it is possible the ones you have to fight were the very last... therefore they are now extinct (maybe).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 13, 2010, 05:24:26 PM
I think it's been pretty well established that anything and everything can be cloned in the Metroid universe.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caliban on September 13, 2010, 11:04:28 PM
I think it's been pretty well established that anything and everything can be cloned in the Metroid universe.
Well, technically speaking we could probably clone Neanderthals since we have their DNA unlocked and recorded, but that doesn't change the fact that Neanderthals are extinct, right? Even if you have the DNA and the means to clone something back, it is extinct up until the point where you actually do it. Then again, we see the same familiar creatures from the original Metroid games over and over again in each reiteration, so obviously someone is responsible for transporting them far from their native worlds apparently for the purpose of making bio-weapons out of each and every one of them. That's why they keep reappearing.
But anyway, isn't Samus half Chozo or something? Therefore, there are Chozo in each and every game she appears in, simply because she herself is Chozo, at least in part.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 14, 2010, 01:26:43 AM
As I said before, I don't know how much of that is bad localization and/or metaphor.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Enner on September 14, 2010, 04:31:40 AM
Are there any other major groups in the galaxy besides the Galactic Federation and the Space Pirates? Maybe the Federation could get in a war with some third party and Samus would be forced to pick sides.
Ever since I found out that the G-Diffuser is the engineering marvel that powers the vehicles in F-Zero, Star Fox, and Metroid, I've always had the fanciful idea that all of Nintendo's sci-fi series exists in the same universe and galaxy. I don't know what a crossover would accomplish; I just fancy the thought.
But anyway, isn't Samus half Chozo or something? Therefore, there are Chozo in each and every game she appears in, simply because she herself is Chozo, at least in part.
IIRC, Samus received an infusion of Chozo blood which is what makes her superhuman even without the power suit. I don't know if that counts as being half-Chozo. As mentioned on the podcast, I would really welcome a game of Samus' Chozo training on Zebes before the Space Pirates came and smashed (one of?) the last living Chozo settlement and set up shop.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 14, 2010, 09:49:28 AM
But anyway, isn't Samus half Chozo or something? Therefore, there are Chozo in each and every game she appears in, simply because she herself is Chozo, at least in part.
She's had Chozo and Metroid DNA infused into her, but I think technically she is still considered fully human.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on September 14, 2010, 10:22:00 AM
Wasn't that Chozo DNA stuff just added in Other M or something? She was fully human in the other games, minus Fusion which recently infected her with Metroid cells. I don't recall her ever having super-human abilities outside of the suit.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 14, 2010, 10:53:32 AM
No, it was added years ago (albeit only in the official Metroid manga and the comics).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 14, 2010, 04:28:39 PM
Isn't Samus 6'3"?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on September 14, 2010, 04:46:40 PM
I had wondered the same thing. It seems like a lot of the old material Nintendo published on Samus back in the day indicated she was well above average in size. I thought she looked fairly small in the Other M cinematics.
So, maybe everyone in the Metroid universe is unusually tall? :)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 14, 2010, 04:57:25 PM
The Nintendo Power Metroid comics are probably not canon, honestly. I mean, the old Super Mario World comics aren't canon, and neither was the Link to the Past comic (which was excellent). Even the manga has some questionable things in there.
Personally, I think the official canon starts with Zero Mission and ends with Metroid Fusion. How the Prime games fit in will always be a matter of debate, although since Other M borrows the Seeker Missiles from them, I'd suggest they are canonical.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 14, 2010, 05:03:02 PM
There was never any indication the Prime games aren't canon (even Sakurai doesn't flat out say they aren't, although his opinion wouldn't matter anyways).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 14, 2010, 05:25:26 PM
Well, sure.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on September 14, 2010, 05:42:39 PM
There was never any indication the Prime games aren't canon (even Sakurai doesn't flat out say they aren't, although his opinion wouldn't matter anyways).
You mean Sakamoto, not Sakurai. Canon and continuity in Metroid is, like The Legend of Zelda, unclear because it has to be. In an ongoing franchise with no grand narrative master plan, a developer needs to leave doors open and be vague so that future games can loosely fit in without requiring a lot of explanation. Fortunately, Metroid's overarching story is considerably easier to comprehend than Zelda's jumbled, two-pronged timeline.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 14, 2010, 05:49:21 PM
Whoops, you are right about it being Sakamoto.
Metroid timeline is easier than Zelda's because it is all one person. There is only one Samus, it's not like the Zelda series where Link and Zelda just keep being reincarnated.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on September 14, 2010, 05:56:11 PM
Metroid probably is the only long-lasting series that could possibly still be sorted into any canon. With Mario, it really doesn't matter. Aonuma changes the story on Zelda depending when you ask him (dual timeline, solid timeline, etc.), and Miyamoto just tells you not to think about it too much. At this point, I think it's sort of impossible to make all the Zelda games fit together; it's almost like a collection of Norse mythology in a sense. The character archetypes remain the same throughout each individual tale, but there are distinct discrepancies and disconnects. It's very difficult to make all the stories fit together into a clean, cohesive story.
I don't know how much TPTB at Nintendo care about story canon in general; for the most part, they just want to make sure that most of their characters have their image intact. While they probably don't care exactly how well the Prime games fit into the Metroid universe, I would think they would frown upon it if Sakamoto actively dismissed the series out of hand.
Even though things like the Nintendo comics aren't canon, it is interesting to see how much interpretations of Samus Aran have changed over the last 15 years or so. I remember even reading the Valiant Captian N comics (I know! They weren't very good!) way back when, and she was pictured as being very tall, physically intimidating, and somewhat motivated by money...she still had a sense of honor, though. It's certainly not cannon, but that and the NP comic probably shaped my perception of her during the time of Super Metroid. My perception of her is certainly different now.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Retro Deckades on September 14, 2010, 06:02:39 PM
I smell a spinoff game starring Adam Malkovitch in Sector Zero.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 14, 2010, 06:13:26 PM
Destructoid's posted an interesting editorial (http://www.destructoid.com/metroid-other-m-s-story-fails-on-so-many-levels-183310.phtml&mainnav=&track=featurebox) (be warned: spoilers) on the failings of Other M's story.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 14, 2010, 06:14:06 PM
I had wondered the same thing. It seems like a lot of the old material Nintendo published on Samus back in the day indicated she was well above average in size. I thought she looked fairly small in the Other M cinematics.
So, maybe everyone in the Metroid universe is unusually tall? :)
To be fair, the ones she stands next to in the game are Space Marines, and they are likely much taller than the average citizen in the Galactic Federation. Real life marines in our world have to meet high physical ability standards that normal people just can't meet, so I'm sure in the future that's probably true with Space Marines as well.
Still... I think Other M did bring her height down from 6'3" that she was originally, and I'm not happy about that. I liked having Samus being a powerful Amazon warrior that you could both respect and fear, but Other M has her behaving emotionally and even running and screaming at one point (or so I've heard... haven't seen that yet though). So in Other M she's more or less just a typical female with her only advantage being her weaponry and her suit. That's one thing about Other M I absolutely hate. I liked the old Samus better. The old Samus could beat any man at arm wrestling, but this one... I just don't know.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on September 14, 2010, 06:17:12 PM
I had wondered the same thing. It seems like a lot of the old material Nintendo published on Samus back in the day indicated she was well above average in size. I thought she looked fairly small in the Other M cinematics.
So, maybe everyone in the Metroid universe is unusually tall? :)
To be fair, the ones she stands next to in the game are Space Marines, and they are likely much taller than the average citizen in the Galactic Federation. Real life marines in our world have to meet high physical ability standards that normal people just can't meet, so I'm sure in the future that's probably true with Space Marines as well.
Still... I think Other M did bring her height down from 6'3" that she was originally, and I'm not happy about that. I liked having Samus being a powerful Amazon warrior that you could both respect and fear, but Other M has her behaving emotionally and even running and screaming at one point (or so I've heard... haven't seen that yet though). So in Other M she's more or less just a typical female with her only advantage being her weaponry and her suit. That's one thing about Other M I absolutely hate. I liked the old Samus better. The old Samus could beat any man at arm wrestling, but this one... I just don't know.
I work with some retired Marines...not all of them are tall. Just tough. :)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 14, 2010, 06:24:35 PM
Speaking of her height, has anyone else ever thought it strange how she is able to curl up into a basketball? She really must have alien DNA if her suit can do that to her without crushing her internal organs and bones. That would kill an ordinary person for sure.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 14, 2010, 06:36:01 PM
The Destructoid review was pretty harsh, but this discussion of the game's plotline failings is pretty good:
Ever since I found out that the G-Diffuser is the engineering marvel that powers the vehicles in F-Zero, Star Fox, and Metroid, I've always had the fanciful idea that all of Nintendo's sci-fi series exists in the same universe and galaxy. I don't know what a crossover would accomplish; I just fancy the thought.
It'd be awesome if they stuck little references to that in each series. Something along the lines of Industrial Light & Magic putting the Millenium Falcon in the battle against the Borg in Star Trek: First Contact.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on September 14, 2010, 06:59:28 PM
The Federation ship in Other M is called the VIXIV, which is the name of the tank in X (both had Sakamoto involvement).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 14, 2010, 07:12:07 PM
Wasn't that Chozo DNA stuff just added in Other M or something? She was fully human in the other games, minus Fusion which recently infected her with Metroid cells. I don't recall her ever having super-human abilities outside of the suit.
I think first she was infused with Chozo "blood", when dna became popular in sci-fi it was changed.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 14, 2010, 08:37:26 PM
I had wondered the same thing. It seems like a lot of the old material Nintendo published on Samus back in the day indicated she was well above average in size. I thought she looked fairly small in the Other M cinematics.
So, maybe everyone in the Metroid universe is unusually tall? :)
Many changes have been made to increase Samus's sex appeal, including shortening her height, making her blonde, adding a "beauty mark," etc. It's kind of unfortunate, but at least it isn't something which affects the quality of the games.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on September 14, 2010, 08:39:19 PM
I had wondered the same thing. It seems like a lot of the old material Nintendo published on Samus back in the day indicated she was well above average in size. I thought she looked fairly small in the Other M cinematics.
So, maybe everyone in the Metroid universe is unusually tall? :)
Many changes have been made to increase Samus's sex appeal, including shortening her height, making her blonde, adding a "beauty mark," etc. It's kind of unfortunate, but at least it isn't something which affects the quality of the games.
Samus's sex appeal is one reason why the reviewers called the game sexsist.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 14, 2010, 08:53:20 PM
Her hair was always blonde, it just went from dirty blonde to bleach blonde. As for sex appeal, remember that the reward for beating the first game good enough would show you her in a bikini, so I would say the sex appeal has always been there (the improved graphics just make it more noticeable).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on September 14, 2010, 08:56:44 PM
Funny thing is, Samus has actually had MORE clothes coverage in the best ending with every iteration of the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 14, 2010, 09:00:51 PM
I never said it wasn't always there, just that it's grown worse, and certain character design decisions seem to have been made for no other reason.
I thought her hair was brown in the NES game, but that may just be due to its limited colour palette.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 14, 2010, 11:02:39 PM
actually, her hair was green in the original.
I always thought that, in the suit, she was tall, but out of the suit she was smaller. Other M kind of cemented that thought when you see her die and loose about 5 inches all around. I always wondered how that armor fit, and at least we now know it actually does spawn out of the blue suit. (is it tethered to her? or was).
The blond part, i could easily see for her character. yes dammit i admit it. I like the Samus, and i think her suit has more sex appeal then he actual human body. While I am near the end i believe (some monster that poops metroids) and was wondering if there are extra endings besides the beat 2 times endings.
Did you know Zelda Oot had multiple endings.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on September 14, 2010, 11:07:27 PM
It was only green if you used certain passwords. It was red in the ending. Pretty much all of the female Nintendo characters have had their hair color changed from what it was in their original games.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on September 14, 2010, 11:12:43 PM
I'm pretty sure OoT only had one ending. Differently named Link's and Scarecrow Songs don't count.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 14, 2010, 11:13:11 PM
I do think a lot of that is because of limited color palettes, and because the original choices may have been made to make the sprite distinctive, like why Mario has a moustache.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 14, 2010, 11:33:03 PM
Samus's hair turned green in the NES game when you got the Varia.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on September 15, 2010, 01:31:15 AM
Why is blond = sex appeal? Why can't she be brunette :(
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 15, 2010, 01:44:44 AM
I had wondered the same thing. It seems like a lot of the old material Nintendo published on Samus back in the day indicated she was well above average in size. I thought she looked fairly small in the Other M cinematics.
So, maybe everyone in the Metroid universe is unusually tall? :)
Many changes have been made to increase Samus's sex appeal, including shortening her height, making her blonde, adding a "beauty mark," etc. It's kind of unfortunate, but at least it isn't something which affects the quality of the games.
But isn't being tall considered sexy? But of course, this game was tailored more to appeal to the Japanese market, and their tastes differ from those in the west.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 15, 2010, 01:47:36 AM
Flat out false. Her hair was green in the original game (I think), and there are also media depicting her with hair that was red, brown, etc. Apparently the powers that be have settled on her being blond and have made that a permanent change, but it wasn't her original hair color.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on September 15, 2010, 01:52:21 AM
In the original Metroid, if I remember correctly, Samus' hair is green using the Justin Bailey code and brown in the ending. I don't think she was blonde until Super Metroid. Peach and Zelda both ended up blonde too.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 15, 2010, 02:21:37 AM
As is Rosaline (in your avatar) and hell, so is Link for that matter. There's far too many blonde mascots in the Nintendo universe! I would have liked it if Samus' hair remained green as per the original. It could be explained by her alien background, and it would have made things more interesting without really taking away from her sex appeal any...
But seriously, blonde haired mascots in Nintendo games is way overdone. Other colors need to be better represented.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 15, 2010, 02:36:37 AM
As is Rosaline (in your avatar) and hell, so is Link for that matter. There's far too many blonde mascots in the Nintendo universe! I would have liked it if Samus' hair remained green as per the original. It could be explained by her alien background, and it would have made things more interesting without really taking away from her sex appeal any...
But seriously, blonde haired mascots in Nintendo games is way overdone. Other colors need to be better represented.
Their next mascot needs to be a ginger. ;D
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Enner on September 15, 2010, 07:32:36 AM
An excellent point is made: you can't say it wasn't bad for trying something different. It can still be badly done, as it was here.
Suddenly everyone is a dramatic and expert story critic. Just kidding. If anything, this shows how much the author really cares about the series. Nobody writes this much if not out of love. Or else we would be seeing more articles about how exactly a story in any given video game fails or succeeds.
I don't have any argument to counter since I recognize and enjoy the game's failings. I enjoyed it so much that I watched the whole 2 hour and 10 minute Metroid: Other M The Movie in the theater mode and came away entertained. Ah, I'm a sucker for Nintendo daring to flex a big budget. Two things: 1) it was a lazy weekend and I wanted to refine/modify my feelings toward the story after listening to the podcasts; 2) I know I'm not doing the story any favors in saying that I've experienced worse entertainment.
A few thoughts on two aspects discussed in the article: I really like a lot of Samus's characterization. I can see how it is boring, but I can't help but think that this is just how a loner of a space bounty hunter would think and sound like. Shame that the screenplay wasn't all there. I really like Anthony Higgs despite being gigantic cliche of a black character and a space marine and a huge stereotype of what Japan thinks a black person looks like. Take a gander at Anthony's concept art in the gallery and notice the lips.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 15, 2010, 10:33:31 AM
Flat out false. Her hair was green in the original game (I think), and there are also media depicting her with hair that was red, brown, etc. Apparently the powers that be have settled on her being blond and have made that a permanent change, but it wasn't her original hair color.
Wow, do you not read other posts? You try and correct me by making a false claim that two other people have already mentioned is not true.
People are mis-remembering, her hair at the end of the first game was dirty blonde (which is a dark blonde). Her is a picture that shows her sprite from the endings of the first three Metroid games:
Speaking of her height, has anyone else ever thought it strange how she is able to curl up into a basketball? She really must have alien DNA if her suit can do that to her without crushing her internal organs and bones. That would kill an ordinary person for sure.
She does not fit into the suit at all. Zero mission really drives that home when you regain the suit and see the Samus image fading over to the suit, the shoulders are in completely different locations.
Prime states the morph ball has a size of one meter so it's not THAT tiny. Of course the sprite based games seem to have smaller balls but really who cares? Samus is a two-legged, one-gunned thing that jumps when you hit the button.
Title: Why there was no N64 Metroid.
Post by: Caterkiller on September 15, 2010, 12:42:32 PM
I was actually thinking about the possibility of making a Metroid game for N64 but I felt that I shouldn’t be the one making the game. When I held the N64 controller in my hands I just couldn’t imagine how it could be used to move Samus around. So for me it was just too early to personally make a 3D Metroid at that time. Also, I know this is isn’t a direct answer to your question but Nintendo at that time approached another company and asked them if they would make an N64 version of Metroid and their response was that no, they could not. They turned it down, saying that unfortunately they didn’t have the confidence to create an N64 Metroid game that could compare favourably with Super Metroid. That’s something I take as a complement to what we achieved with Super Metroid.
They mention Metroid Dread as well.
Title: Re: Why there was no N64 Metroid.
Post by: broodwars on September 15, 2010, 12:47:03 PM
I was actually thinking about the possibility of making a Metroid game for N64 but I felt that I shouldn’t be the one making the game. When I held the N64 controller in my hands I just couldn’t imagine how it could be used to move Samus around. So for me it was just too early to personally make a 3D Metroid at that time. Also, I know this is isn’t a direct answer to your question but Nintendo at that time approached another company and asked them if they would make an N64 version of Metroid and their response was that no, they could not. They turned it down, saying that unfortunately they didn’t have the confidence to create an N64 Metroid game that could compare favourably with Super Metroid. That’s something I take as a complement to what we achieved with Super Metroid.
They mention Metroid Dread as well.
What a shock: Sakamoto "modestly" saying that one of the main reasons they didn't make an N64 Metroid was because they didn't think they could make a better Metroid than what he had made. ::)
Can we please get this guy off of Metroid?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 15, 2010, 12:56:41 PM
Agreed, the guy is a egomaniac who doesn't care what anybody else (including fans) think or want, he is not as good as he thinks he is either.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 15, 2010, 01:00:37 PM
I did find it interesting, though, how he criticized the N64 controller. I've occasionally read about Miyamoto and Sakamoto not being fond of each other, and the N64 controller was created for a Miyamoto game, so this does seem to back that up.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on September 15, 2010, 01:02:11 PM
It's impossible to deny that Samus sexual appeal has been gradually increasing, skin tight suit doesn't count as "completely clothed", she might as well be naked, and is being used more and more in the games. Also the zero suit now has freaking heels, which doesn't make a lick of sense in any way. The beauty mark is another dumb thing. In general, Retro had it right until Sakamoto started messing with the character. I second the motion of taking this guy as away from Metroid as possible.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: King of Twitch on September 15, 2010, 01:16:00 PM
The controller would've been a blast to use, but Other M with N64 graphics sound? Meh.
I did find it interesting, though, how he criticized the N64 controller. I've occasionally read about Miyamoto and Sakamoto not being fond of each other, and the N64 controller was created for a Miyamoto game, so this does seem to back that up.
It sounds more like Nintendo laziness than criticism of the controller:
"When I held the N64 controller in my hands I just couldn’t imagine how it could be used to move Samus around"
Hey guy, I think you could've used the analogue stick.....or the d-pad.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on September 15, 2010, 01:18:37 PM
Well, this was the guy who thought 3D still couldn't work until Team Ninja showed him a way.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 15, 2010, 06:19:49 PM
I was actually thinking about the possibility of making a Metroid game for N64 but I felt that I shouldn’t be the one making the game. When I held the N64 controller in my hands I just couldn’t imagine how it could be used to move Samus around. So for me it was just too early to personally make a 3D Metroid at that time. Also, I know this is isn’t a direct answer to your question but Nintendo at that time approached another company and asked them if they would make an N64 version of Metroid and their response was that no, they could not. They turned it down, saying that unfortunately they didn’t have the confidence to create an N64 Metroid game that could compare favourably with Super Metroid. That’s something I take as a complement to what we achieved with Super Metroid.
They mention Metroid Dread as well.
What a shock: Sakamoto "modestly" saying that one of the main reasons they didn't make an N64 Metroid was because they didn't think they could make a better Metroid than what he had made. ::)
Can we please get this guy off of Metroid?
It seems like this guy is to the Metroid franchise what Rick Berman and Brannon Braga were to the Star Trek franchise. Gunpei Yokoi was the equivalent of Gene Roddenberry. It was a dark day for both respective franchises when those men died and usurpers took over and steered them into ruin.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 15, 2010, 07:15:39 PM
I'm hoping that the game's poor critical reception, particularly regarding the story and characterizations, will motivate Nintendo to take the franchise away from Sakamoto.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 15, 2010, 07:18:23 PM
It sounds more like Nintendo laziness than criticism of the controller:
"When I held the N64 controller in my hands I just couldn’t imagine how it could be used to move Samus around"
Hey guy, I think you could've used the analogue stick.....or the d-pad.
It's funny, but I think the Nintendo 64 controller could have worked well for Metroid Other M. You would use the D-pad to move and dodge, the A button to jump, the B button to shoot, and either C, L, or R for morph ball. To switch to first-person, you would move your hand to the middle prong and hold in the Z button, then use the analogue stick to move the cursor. In this mode, since you can't reach the D-pad, the C-buttons would be used to dodge. This seems like it could work rather well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 15, 2010, 09:33:35 PM
I was actually thinking about the possibility of making a Metroid game for N64 but I felt that I shouldn’t be the one making the game. When I held the N64 controller in my hands I just couldn’t imagine how it could be used to move Samus around. So for me it was just too early to personally make a 3D Metroid at that time. Also, I know this is isn’t a direct answer to your question but Nintendo at that time approached another company and asked them if they would make an N64 version of Metroid and their response was that no, they could not. They turned it down, saying that unfortunately they didn’t have the confidence to create an N64 Metroid game that could compare favourably with Super Metroid. That’s something I take as a complement to what we achieved with Super Metroid.
They mention Metroid Dread as well.
What a shock: Sakamoto "modestly" saying that one of the main reasons they didn't make an N64 Metroid was because they didn't think they could make a better Metroid than what he had made. ::)
Can we please get this guy off of Metroid?
It seems like this guy is to the Metroid franchise what Rick Berman and Brannon Braga were to the Star Trek franchise. Gunpei Yokoi was the equivalent of Gene Roddenberry. It was a dark day for both respective franchises when those men died and usurpers took over and steered them into ruin.
I couldn't disagree more. For one, everyone who actually knew Roddenberry say he would have been been happy and proud of DS9 and VOY, and ENT went back to the series roots. DS9, which started production after he died, is arguably the best Trek series. They have also improved on some stuff. For example, when asked about a canon reason for TOS era Klingons looking so radically different from the ones that made their debut in the movies (the actual reason is because makeup in the 60s was too expensive to have the look they eventually got), Roddenberry said to just pretend they did have ridges. They acknowledged the differences when the USS Defiant went back in time in the DS9 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations", and finally explained in canon the reason in the episodes "Affliction" and "Divergence" (basically, Klingons tried to use human Augment DNA to create Klingon Augments, but it mutated with the flu that a test subject had and became airborne. It worked at first, but then would kill the subject, eventually Dr. Phlox created a cure that would stop in the early phases, but the first phase cause Klingon's ridges to disappear and their personality to change. Since the augment gene changed their DNA, it was heridtary and Phlox said it would take about 150 years for it to go away). If anything, I think Trek got better after he died (not that he had been involved that much in the last few years due to his health).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 15, 2010, 09:36:51 PM
TNG got better when Roddenberry got less involved with it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on September 15, 2010, 09:40:01 PM
finally explained in canon the reason in the episodes "Affliction" and "Divergence" (basically, Klingons tried to use human Augment DNA to create Klingon Augments, but it mutated with the flu that a test subject had and became airborne. It worked at first, but then would kill the subject, eventually Dr. Phlox created a cure that would stop in the early phases, but the first phase cause Klingon's ridges to disappear and their personality to change. Since the augment gene changed their DNA, it was heridtary and Phlox said it would take about 150 years for it to go away). If anything, I think Trek got better after he died (not that he had been involved that much in the last few years due to his health).
I'd credit those stories (the especially good final season of Enterprise) to the Reeves-Stevenses, who also had to come up with a lot of creative ways to combine book and movie discrepancies when writing Kirk back into the series of books they co-wrote with William Shatner.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 15, 2010, 09:42:42 PM
The first two seasons of TNG were pretty terrible IMO (season 1 especially). The show really kicked into gear in season 4. But maybe this can continue in a separate topic.
I wonder how Nintendo will react if Other M fails to sell as well as past games, will they allow Sakamoto to do another? If they let him do another, will they force him to fix the complaints that basically everyone has?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 15, 2010, 09:52:44 PM
I stand by my prediction that this is the last console Metroid we're going to see for a while.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 16, 2010, 01:10:23 AM
That seems likely. There's no way another will be on the Wii, Retro wants to move onto other things, Metroid usually comes at the midpoint of a console cycle, Other M kind of felt like a wrap-up, I don't know of any interested developers, etc. It's probably going to be a while.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 16, 2010, 01:21:14 AM
I stand by my prediction that this is the last console Metroid we're going to see for a while.
Well, it depends a lot on the sales figures, but we won't know that until a month from now when the sales chart for September gets released. If it sells great then a sequel is assured at some point.. then again, even if it sells poorly that won't kill the franchise off. Frankly, it may be better if it does sell poorly so that the next time around this game's failings are addressed... not that its a terrible game by any means, but it does have room for improvement and poor sales would give it the kick in the pants it probably needs.
Quote
That seems likely. There's no way another will be on the Wii, Retro wants to move onto other things, Metroid usually comes at the midpoint of a console cycle, Other M kind of felt like a wrap-up, I don't know of any interested developers, etc. It's probably going to be a while.
Well, its possible another Metroid game is in development as we speak. As soon as a studio wraps up development of one game they immediately begin development on another game. Of course, we don't hear anything but rumors about what studios are working on until they are well into development, so for all we know another Metroid game is in the early stages as we speak, but it might be a year or two before we hear anything.
Of course, by then the game would probably make more sense to be released on Nintendo's next console... so even then Other M might be the last Metroid we see on the Wii console, and of course that makes sense because that is in line with how Nintendo has operated in the past with Metroid on the GC which only had two games, and also with the Zelda franchise which had two per console since the NES days. The GC had Prime 1&2, the Wii has Prime 3 and Other M.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on September 17, 2010, 07:55:34 AM
I stand by my prediction that this is the last console Metroid we're going to see for a while.
I'd tend to agree, but, then, I thought Prime 3 would be the last one after it was sort of unceremoniously released. Not much buzz in the months leading up to release, not much in the way of advertisement except for that dumb airport commercial, etc...
I think the next entry will probably be on the 3DS; I just hope it's not in the form of a remake of Prime or Other M. I'd have to admit that Prime would probably work very well as a 3D game, though.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 17, 2010, 08:10:38 AM
If you think about it, Other M would have worked just as well on the DS as on the Wii. The pixel hunting and missile locking could have been done just as well (perhaps even better) with the touchscreen and stylus, and the fact Other M didn't even use an analog stick anyway meant that it wouldn't have been missing anything had it been on the DS. Plus its not like Other M really pushed the limits of what the Wii is graphically capable of anyway, so it may as well have just been a DS title. Granted, the graphics wouldn't have been as good, but they would have been adequate.
I suppose that is something for Nintendo to consider if they are thinking about a sequel to Other M. Really, why couldn't it have been done on the DS?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 17, 2010, 05:45:48 PM
This is something I meant to ask earlier: Do we have any people playing this game who prefers to hold the Wiimote in their left hand?
That's what I like to do, but I found that, given how the sideways Wiimote demands using the D-pad with my left hand, it is awkward to flip it into my left hand quickly. It didn't take too long to get accustomed to switching it into my right hand, but it still isn't my preferred method. A left-handed option would have been nice.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on September 17, 2010, 06:27:49 PM
I don't, but I've heard other people say the same thing.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 18, 2010, 11:50:46 AM
hmm, left handed playing with this game. let me do some experiments..
.. after test... Okay, so if your left handed and have the nature to keep the wiimote in the left when you break apart, yes.. the controls break.. and i though this controller was supposed to eliminate the need for rightys and leftys. next time nin, just put to ir sensors in (if you even use that again) the bottom too.
so mop, when you play First Person Shooter (cant write fps, it stands for another more greater value) do you hold the nunchuck in the right? I found, while playing these type of games, I end up crossing my wrist in order to maintain lastability (who really only games in small sessions?) and stability, but after i do this, the pointer is on my left even though its in my right hand. i wonder what it would be like to just switch..
hmmmm
oh btw,
Metroid other M.. really fun game when its all laid out on the table. I am enjoying this game, it is fun and while a little unknown at first as far as the metroid game feel is concerned, it grows into its own. I suggest though, that everyone play the game with headphones.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on September 18, 2010, 03:11:51 PM
That's what I like to do, but I found that, given how the sideways Wiimote demands using the D-pad with my left hand, it is awkward to flip it into my left hand quickly. It didn't take too long to get accustomed to switching it into my right hand, but it still isn't my preferred method. A left-handed option would have been nice.
Seems like it would actually be easier to use your left hand -- just pivot on the D-pad, using your right hand as the lever... you could even keep your right hand on the buttons ready to switch again. When playing right-handed, you have to reposition your whole right hand.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Armak88 on September 20, 2010, 12:50:32 AM
I just picked this game up and I've played up until sector 2... There are some serious flaws in this game. They are impressively bad. I can suffer through the agonizingly bad cut scenes, but when I get trapped in first person view and have to find something that the game gives me nearly no indication at all as to what it might be I get seriously frustrated. At least two times I've been stuck at one of these parts for 5-10 minutes. Even if you see something that looks suspicious the icon doesn't always come up unless you are in just the right spot. At the end of the biosphere there are several of these forced first person parts interspersed among the almost as annoying over the shoulder parts. I thought I was looking for something during the over the shoulder parts, but no, you just have to walk down a long hallway really slowly. Why couldn't it have put me in over the shoulder view once it got me into the room where it actually wanted me to see something? Far and away the best thing about the game is the combat, but it has more or less come down to dodge, shoot, jump on head, shoot, melee attack, rinse repeat. If you want you could cut most of that out and just dodge and shoot over and over, but if you're not going for style points it would be boring. I'm not having a terrible time with this game, I actually look forward to playing it, but there are glaring flaws in the design of this game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on September 20, 2010, 01:11:21 AM
The pixel hunting is really crappy but I really don't think it happens often enough to have a major impact on my opinion of the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Armak88 on September 20, 2010, 01:55:08 AM
I guess I was just at a point in the game where it had happened 3 times in an hour, and as I said 2 of those time took me ten minutes to find something that I had been looking at the whole time. In my opinion those sections shouldn't be in the game at all. The game feels an awful lot like the very limited amount of ninja gaiden that I've played and I'm not crazy about that. It just feels like it's all flash.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on September 20, 2010, 09:39:45 AM
The only pixel hunting portion that really stumped me was when I had to look at the green blood following the proto-Ridley attack. I had to go online to look up the answer. That was the worst.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 20, 2010, 11:26:36 AM
I actually was able to get the green blood one. The one I had the most trouble with was the very first one where you have to find the tiny emblem on the federation ship. The trick to solving those puzzles is to look for something that just doesn't belong and then focus on that. Other times you will hear strange sounds like rustling of leaves and you need to use that as a clue for what to look for. If leaves are rustling then obviously what you're looking for has something to do with leaves. It reminds me a lot of a CSI video game, where you investigate crime scenes and collect evidence. Since I have experience with that sort of game that's probably what helped me get through those pixel hunts.
But yes, this is the sort of stuff that doesn't belong in a Metroid game. Other M messes too much with the classic Metroid formula, and I for one am not happy with that.. still the action and combat is pretty good. As far as Metroid games go, I guess I would rate this one a C. In my book Super Metroid would get an A and the Prime games would get a B, so Other M isn't as good as Prime, but I wouldn't give it a failing grade. Its still as good or better than 90% of games out there, but it fails to meet the quality standards set by other games in the Metroid series.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on September 20, 2010, 11:29:17 AM
At least it's better than Hunters.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on September 20, 2010, 01:58:29 PM
Metroid Prime: Hunters is a Metroid game in name only.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Armak88 on September 20, 2010, 05:52:58 PM
So far every metroid game that I"ve played with the exception of the original, and excluding 2 because I have never played it, has been a solid well crafted experience. Even fusion, which I would consider the weakest of those was a great game which only really had some nit-picks here and there. Other M feels like it was made by polling a room of 13 year olds. The game play is fragmented and the pacing suffers for it. Thankfully the largest fragment of gameplay is also the best, but even that is flashy and shallow. I wouldn't give this game a failing grade either, there is definitely fun to be had with it and when I'm not in first person I generally enjoy myself. The game just isn't satisfying on the same level as every other metroid game, and I expect better than "decent" from this franchise. I guess I'm not that phased by it though because after corruption I had resigned myself to believing we wouldn't get another metroid until the next console. This game is like a bonus for me, an interesting aside that I didn't expect.
*I also don't consider hunters a metroid game...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 20, 2010, 09:15:12 PM
Seems like it would actually be easier to use your left hand -- just pivot on the D-pad, using your right hand as the lever... you could even keep your right hand on the buttons ready to switch again. When playing right-handed, you have to reposition your whole right hand.
Have you actually tried this? It doesn't work as well at it sounds. The Wiimote ends up being too high in the hand, and I have to slide it down, either through some awkward movement or with my other hand. Flipping it into the right hand puts it into the proper position. However, I did sometimes use my left hand if I charged up before switching to first-person.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 21, 2010, 07:31:22 AM
From what I understand, the main thing that sucked about Hunters was the controls. It was a decent game except for that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 21, 2010, 11:16:12 AM
so when are we allowed to talk plot devices without blacking out the text?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on September 21, 2010, 11:21:10 AM
What's the problem with using spoiler tags?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on September 21, 2010, 01:28:05 PM
From what I understand, the main thing that sucked about Hunters was the controls. It was a decent game except for that.
I was actually fine with the controls - for me, the problem with Hunters was the game's structure. If you think Other M screws up the classic Metroid formula, then Hunters absolutely decimates it. Pretty much the only "powerups" you get are different guns, which can open different doors, but they're not nearly as cool as getting abilities like the grapple beam, space jump, X-ray visor etc. It's so much closer to a traditional FPS than a Metroid game.
Here's our review of that, which pretty much nails it (except a score of 8 is probably a point or two higher than it really deserves): http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/11241 (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/11241)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 21, 2010, 01:58:58 PM
Metroid Hunters deserves an 8 because it was a portable shooter with great controls and online multiplayer.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on September 22, 2010, 12:57:36 AM
Metroid Hunters deserves an 8 because it was a portable shooter with great controls and online multiplayer.
My cramped hand begs to differ.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on September 22, 2010, 10:25:07 AM
Yeah, I just dug it out again and wow, my hand hurts from just five minutes of playing that on the DSi. I don't recall having such trouble with my old DS.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 22, 2010, 10:30:12 AM
Maybe the bigger screen is harder on the wrist because it involves more moving around?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 22, 2010, 11:20:29 AM
I played Hunters with the wrist strap and loved it; I'd rather use that for aiming than an actual analog stick.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: mantidor on September 22, 2010, 11:51:11 AM
Seems like it would actually be easier to use your left hand -- just pivot on the D-pad, using your right hand as the lever... you could even keep your right hand on the buttons ready to switch again. When playing right-handed, you have to reposition your whole right hand.
Have you actually tried this? It doesn't work as well at it sounds. The Wiimote ends up being too high in the hand, and I have to slide it down, either through some awkward movement or with my other hand. Flipping it into the right hand puts it into the proper position. However, I did sometimes use my left hand if I charged up before switching to first-person.
I am a crazy lefty zealot, I even have a thread somewhere it's a joke thread don't look for it, and I really never had much problem with the switch to first person, now that you make me think about it I think I just push the remote slightly into my left hand with the right before I do the spin, it's done so quickly and automatic I really never noticed.
I also have no idea how to configure "lefty" controls for that. Unless you mean holding the remote backwards but that would be really weird.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on September 22, 2010, 12:43:09 PM
Maybe the bigger screen is harder on the wrist because it involves more moving around?
It's my left hand that hurts.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on September 23, 2010, 04:49:41 PM
Yeah, I had to lie down and hold the DS on my lap to play Hunters comfortably. Otherwise, I'm holding the full DS weight with the left hand and pushing buttons at the same time, and it really wears on you. Plus, I only have the original DS phat.
But once I got used to dealing with the weight, I actually liked the controls. They were awfully quick and responsive.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 23, 2010, 05:37:25 PM
If you have the original DS, don't you have the thumb strap? I figure that should solve the issue with most DS games that use the touch screen and buttons.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on September 24, 2010, 10:40:03 AM
Oh, it's probably at the bottom of some drawer somewhere. I think it would take me ages to find it, if I still have it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 24, 2010, 11:10:34 AM
I never used the thumb strap, and honestly I don't understand how its supposed to work.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 24, 2010, 11:17:33 AM
The thumb strap doesn't fix the issue with the hand positioning you need to reach the L button.
I also frequently got nervous about the idea of continually rubbing something that solid and hard repeatedly over a touch screen (quiet, you), as I feared I would scratch the screen. I ran into that issue a lot with the touch screen, and it's the main reason I never used it if I could use button controls: I didn't want to damage the system, and I'd always feel compelled to clean it every time I touched it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 24, 2010, 12:19:55 PM
I quickly stopped using it, it was easier just to use my thumb rather than the thumb strap.
Wouldn't the salt/sweat/oil from your thumb be even more of a hazard to the touch screen?
Well, in any case... I am glad the 3DS is finally getting a proper analog control method. An FPS game like Hunters on the 3DS would work far better than on the old DS hardware. I hope we will see some Metroid games on the 3DS.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on September 24, 2010, 06:06:23 PM
The Metroid Hunters controls dont hurt so bad if you use the original DS. The original DS size and form made it easier to support the wrist if your sitting down. But when the newer DS came out, it become smaller of a form factor and so it makes it harder on your hands.
So its your fault stratos, for not having hands of a 12 year old girl.
8P
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 24, 2010, 07:42:18 PM
I know I am a bit late, but I finally got a chance to put in several more hours in the game and so far I am really enjoying the story. It is a fun story, fantastic, nah, but it is entertaining with some iffy dialogue. So far no problem with how they've portrayed Samus, the only part that bothered me a bit was the encounter with Ridley, besides that she is still a strong woman character with human flaws.
The gameplay is fantastic though, I LOVE the boss fights for the most part, and it is great to have so many.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Retro Deckades on September 24, 2010, 08:02:50 PM
I know I am a bit late, but I finally got a chance to put in several more hours in the game and so far I am really enjoying the story. It is a fun story, fantastic, nah, but it is entertaining with some iffy dialogue. So far no problem with how they've portrayed Samus, the only part that bothered me a bit was the encounter with Ridley, besides that she is still a strong woman character with human flaws.
The gameplay is fantastic though, I LOVE the boss fights for the most part, and it is great to have so many.
Glad to hear that someone else is enjoying the story. Sure it's not the greatest, but it kept me playing to see what was going to happen next.
The dialogue... Ya, it's really the only thing that I was disappointed with. In particular, Samus's. I'm not one of those people who think Other M ruined her "previously established" character, but I pictured her as terse. That's not to say she shouldn't speak, but that when she does, she doesn't mince words. She has pretty much eradicated entire species, after all.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 24, 2010, 08:27:11 PM
I know I am a bit late, but I finally got a chance to put in several more hours in the game and so far I am really enjoying the story. It is a fun story, fantastic, nah, but it is entertaining with some iffy dialogue. So far no problem with how they've portrayed Samus, the only part that bothered me a bit was the encounter with Ridley, besides that she is still a strong woman character with human flaws.
The gameplay is fantastic though, I LOVE the boss fights for the most part, and it is great to have so many.
Glad to hear that someone else is enjoying the story. Sure it's not the greatest, but it kept me playing to see what was going to happen next.
The dialogue... Ya, it's really the only thing that I was disappointed with. In particular, Samus's. I'm not one of those people who think Other M ruined her "previously established" character, but I pictured her as terse. That's not to say she shouldn't speak, but that when she does, she doesn't mince words. She has pretty much eradicated entire species, after all.
Samus's voice in this has grown on me, it is stoic sounding and works for the most part. Probably the worse part of the dialogue is when she explains something obvious based on an event, it is just bad writing when that occurs.
It would be like a character being almost hit by a car, followed by the dialogue "A car almost hit me, and I was very scared". Gee, really?
Besides that it is a solid gaming story with some cool moments here and there, along with some decent CGI along with some emotional scenes. such as when Adam sacrificed himself. Samus's response to that made the seen good, especially where she couldn't cry, she had work to do
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on September 25, 2010, 12:00:02 AM
I finally bought this game and love it, but I find myself getting stuck and not knowing where to go or what to do at times. As for the dialouge, I wish someone at Nintendo would have done something to enhance the quality of voice actors. This is worse than all animes and that says alot(although I would have liked Steven Blum to voice Ridley).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 25, 2010, 12:06:26 AM
This is worse than all animes and that says alot(although I would have liked Steven Blum to voice Ridley).
You would want to waste one of the most prevalent and probably expensive voice actors in the business to voice a guy that just screeches the entire game? If you're going to do that, at least hire Frank Welker, who specializes in that type of performance. :P:
As for the quality of the acting, on the rare occasion that you get to hear them actually act they were always fine to me (yes, even Samus...when she wasn't blathering on and on and on about that damn Baby Metroid). Unfortunately, Nintendo deliberately gave the actors bad direction so there's a very clinical and monotone sound to it. That's what they wanted, and that's what they got.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on September 25, 2010, 12:59:51 AM
This is worse than all animes and that says alot(although I would have liked Steven Blum to voice Ridley).
You would want to waste one of the most prevalent and probably expensive voice actors in the business to voice a guy that just screeches the entire game? If you're going to do that, at least hire Frank Welker, who specializes in that type of performance. :P: :
As for the quality of the acting, on the rare occasion that you get to hear them actually act they were always fine to me (yes, even Samus...when she wasn't blathering on and on and on about that damn Baby Metroid). Unfortunately, Nintendo deliberately gave the actors bad direction so there's a very clinical and monotone sound to it. That's what they wanted, and that's what they got.
I believe the series has hinted that Ridley is an intelligent being, so if he is inteligent then he can speak, or communicate other than screeches. Those screeches are just for intimidation and yes, I would like for Steven Blum to voice him. Go watch the Dante's Inferno anime DVD. Blum voices Satan and his voice work is phenominal. I could easily imagine that voice applied to Ridley.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on September 25, 2010, 01:48:44 AM
Ridley probably speaks in screeches or uses telepathy, I don't think his tongue can do human noises. If you notice you never hear any of the space pirates speak a human language, most likely their species uses completely different sounds and frequencies. EDIT: However let's not forget that we're talking about a setting written up by Yokoi and Sakamoto, not Isaac Asimov. If it's not explicitly explained they probably didn't think about it.
As for hunters, it'd be comfortable if the bottom edge of the system was 3-4 centimeters further down.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 25, 2010, 02:18:19 AM
Please mark spoilers accordingly.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on September 27, 2010, 02:33:34 PM
Nintendo has responded (http://wii.ign.com/articles/112/1123601p1.html) to the issue of the Locked Red Door bug: It occurs if you backtrack after acquiring the Ice Beam. Send in your Wii or saved game on an SD card to their Japan branch, and they'll get you past the door. Really, Nintendo? Really? That's really your solution? No, let's not just send out fixed copies of the game (or, heaven forbid, patch the game like you did Twilight Princess), but instead make the consumer send in saves or their entire Wiis.
*just shakes his head irritatedly*
Nintendo, you astound me sometimes with your stubborness and half-assedness.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 27, 2010, 06:08:06 PM
Ah, so it is a confirm glitch, I thought it affected only those who play the game from a harddrive.
What's the story with Twilight Princess again? I haven't been able to find an answer on that. How could they fix this short of reprinting discs?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on September 27, 2010, 06:10:02 PM
They did reprint discs for Twilight Princess. If you had a problem, you could send yours in, and they'd send a replacement.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on September 27, 2010, 06:14:30 PM
What was the glitch in Twilight Princess? And I also thought there was something different about the save file, and the older save file allowed some sort of hack or something.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 27, 2010, 06:24:02 PM
What was the glitch in Twilight Princess? And I also thought there was something different about the save file, and the older save file allowed some sort of hack or something.
If you saved the game in the room with the big cannon, you wouldn't be able to warp the cannon out of the room and you wouldn't be able to leave the room either. So basically the save filed had to be deleted. Luckily it's not something most people would do.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 01, 2010, 11:01:53 AM
Nintendo has responded (http://wii.ign.com/articles/112/1123601p1.html) to the issue of the Locked Red Door bug: It occurs if you backtrack after acquiring the Ice Beam.
So that's the thing that causes it, huh? Most sites I read online said the thing that triggers the bug is if you go back and save after beating the last boss prior to the locked doors, but I KNEW that wasn't the cause because I never did that and it was still locked for me.
I'm not paying to send an SD card to Japan so that Nintendo can fix this for me. Its just bullshit that they won't release a patch or something online to fix this problem. It sucks that I have to restart the game now and lose the 9 hours I invested in it, but at least NOW I know exactly what triggers the bug so I will be able to avoid it from happening the next time around. I've been stuck at that locked door for about two weeks now and I haven't played the game at all because I was hoping Nintendo would release a patch or something, but sadly now it looks obvious that they're not going to do that. I also didn't want to restart the game because I didn't know what the trigger for the bug was, but now that I do I guess I will restart.
But you know what? This is absolutely ridiculous for this to happen in ANY Metroid game. The Metroid series is supposed to be all about encouraging exploration and backtracking to pick up the powerups and unlock all the secrets. I can forgive many of the flaws with Other M, but this one is unacceptable. As soon as I finish this game I'm going to sell it so I can wash my hands of it. I never thought I would say that about any Metroid game, but this one has crossed the line, IMHO.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on October 01, 2010, 11:32:27 PM
I finally bought Other M the other day and I noticed this little white mogwy-esque creature that lookes more like pokemon in the game. I thought he was cute and cuddly until I noticed him eating off some creature that I killed and the way he was eating did not fit his cuddly exterior. I have a bad feling about this guy.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 02, 2010, 01:02:44 AM
I finally bought Other M the other day and I noticed this little white mogwy-esque creature that lookes more like pokemon in the game. I thought he was cute and cuddly until I noticed him eating off some creature that I killed and the way he was eating did not fit his cuddly exterior. I have a bad feling about this guy.
Could you please use spoilers? That didn't bother me because I already seen that but you have to be considerate for other gamers who are just starting. Would you want me to spoil the game for you by saying what is going to happen at a point you haven't got to yet? Please think about others before you post.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on October 02, 2010, 01:05:12 AM
I finally bought Other M the other day and I noticed this little white mogwy-esque creature that lookes more like pokemon in the game. I thought he was cute and cuddly until I noticed him eating off some creature that I killed and the way he was eating did not fit his cuddly exterior. I have a bad feling about this guy.
Could you please use spoilers? That didn't bother me because I already seen that but you have to be considerate for other gamers who are just starting. Would you want me to spoil the game for you by saying what is going to happen at a point you haven't got to yet? Please think about others before you post.
I am very soory, but I do not know how to create spoiler alerts. :cool;
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on October 02, 2010, 01:07:18 AM
I finally bought Other M the other day and I noticed this little white mogwy-esque creature that lookes more like pokemon in the game. I thought he was cute and cuddly until I noticed him eating off some creature that I killed and the way he was eating did not fit his cuddly exterior. I have a bad feling about this guy.
Could you please use spoilers? That didn't bother me because I already seen that but you have to be considerate for other gamers who are just starting. Would you want me to spoil the game for you by saying what is going to happen at a point you haven't got to yet? Please think about others before you post.
I am very soory, but I do not know how to create spoiler alerts. :cool;
[ spoiler ] Text [ /spoiler ]
Remove the spaces in the spoiler code and there you go.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 02, 2010, 01:25:46 AM
What that does is black out the text so you can't read it unless you highlight it. Its a pretty cool feature.
See what I mean?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on October 02, 2010, 01:26:37 AM
I do not understand how to use it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 02, 2010, 01:27:58 AM
They did reprint discs for Twilight Princess. If you had a problem, you could send yours in, and they'd send a replacement.
But Twilight Princess glitches allowed for Wiis to get hacked. I wonder if that had something to do with the disc replacement.
If that's the case then I hope someone can find a way to use the Other M glitch to hack Wiis. Because that would get Nintendo up off their ass and make them actually do something about it, instead of this half ass "send your SD to Japan and we'll fix it" crap.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on October 02, 2010, 03:45:10 PM
The save file exploit was independent of the glitch.
And you don't have to send your SD card to Japan (unless you live in Japan).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on October 02, 2010, 04:14:26 PM
How does this glitch occur so that I can avoid it?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on October 02, 2010, 04:16:28 PM
How does this glitch occur so that I can avoid it?
Just remember that this game doesn't like you backtracking, so don't do it on your first run through the the Lava sector.
Yeah, in order to play Other M you have to unlearn everything you know from all the other Metroid games. All the other games encourage you to explore and uncover secrets and find powerups, but if you try doing that in this game you'll suffer Adam's wrath because he don't authorize exploration.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stratos on October 02, 2010, 05:54:59 PM
All the other games encourage you to explore and uncover secrets and find powerups, but if you try doing that in this game you'll suffer Adam's wrath because he don't authorize exploration.
Except Fusion. And there are still plenty of secrets to uncover, and from a gameplay perspective the "authorization" isn't really different than finding those powerups in that area.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on October 03, 2010, 01:57:31 AM
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 03, 2010, 03:17:41 PM
Fusion wasn't a problem. I enjoyed it more than Metroid I and II, and possibly even Zero Mission, which was like Super Metroid but not as good. Too many Metroid games are samey, with the Prime series being the worst offender; I didn't even finish Prime 3 because it was just too much of the same old thing. I'm glad this game was so different, that made Metroid interesting and fun again.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 03, 2010, 03:30:27 PM
and from a gameplay perspective the "authorization" isn't really different than finding those powerups in that area.
It is very different. Not being able to do something because you lack the ability to do it is very different than not being able to do something because someone tells you they aren't allowing you to do it (even though you can). In Other M Samus has all of her suit upgrades, so the game doesn't involve players exploring and trying to find those upgrades. Samus has each and every one of them already installed.
The problem is some asshole is forbidding her from using those upgrades at times where they might have saved her life. For example in the Lava area where she is forbidden to use her Varia suit at first and suffers damage the whole time. This makes no sense because she already has that, but some idiot is ordering her not to use it.
Call me old fashioned, but it felt so much better when Samus was alone on an alien world and not taking orders from anyone. She could do whatever she needed to in order to survive without having to call up HQ for permission. It also felt rewarding to discover the ancient statues holding the powerups and knowing you've earned it. In Other M you don't have that satisfying feeling, because you already have it all but you lack the authority to use any of it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 03, 2010, 04:05:22 PM
It doesn't make much sense from a story or logistical standpoint, but it doesn't change the gameplay. In Super Metroid you travel through a portion of the lava section of the planet before you acquire the Varia Suit. Other M is no different in that sense; you still travel through a portion of the lava sector before you can activate the Varia.
I'm not saying that the whole authorization thing didn't feel incredibly forced and lame, but I didn't get caught up in it because I didn't feel it affected the gameplay for the most part.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 03, 2010, 04:10:05 PM
After completing the game totally (Loved the FINAL boss), have to say I am ranking this as my 2nd favorite Metroid game, right behind Super Metroid. I enjoyed the story, and yes enjoyed the portrayal of Samus for the most part, it made her more human and I connected more with her. Yeah the authorization story line was lame but like Mop_it_up said it didn't really affect my enjoyment of the game. I have no problem seeing Team Ninja come back for a sequel!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 03, 2010, 06:40:08 PM
It did effect my enjoyment of the game, but I will admit it was something I would have tolerated in and of itself. What ruined the game for me (both literally and otherwise) was that stupid eternally locked door glitch, and that's something that is indirectly caused by Adam's authorization crap. In previous Metroid games you opened doors by shooting them, so there was NEVER doors that were locked per se. Yeah, you had to find the right beam or missile upgrade in order to shoot them open, but once you did you were always good to go... no authorization required. The glitch wouldn't exist if it weren't for the authorization system.
Samus should be able to blast her way through doors on her own, not depend on someone else to do the opening for her. It was this dependence on Adam that resulted in the door being permanently locked, because he wasn't paying attention when I met the pre-requisites for it to be opened.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 03, 2010, 07:50:17 PM
It did effect my enjoyment of the game, but I will admit it was something I would have tolerated in and of itself. What ruined the game for me (both literally and otherwise) was that stupid eternally locked door glitch, and that's something that is indirectly caused by Adam's authorization crap. In previous Metroid games you opened doors by shooting them, so there was NEVER doors that were locked per se. Yeah, you had to find the right beam or missile upgrade in order to shoot them open, but once you did you were always good to go... no authorization required. The glitch wouldn't exist if it weren't for the authorization system.
Samus should be able to blast her way through doors on her own, not depend on someone else to do the opening for her. It was this dependence on Adam that resulted in the door being permanently locked, because he wasn't paying attention when I met the pre-requisites for it to be opened.
A glitch like that could have occurred even if you shot the door. Seems kind of silly to blame it on the authorization gimmick. Glitches occur all the time in games, sometimes game ending ones, it is just that with Wii it is worse since it isn't patched.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on October 03, 2010, 09:07:36 PM
Fusion wasn't a problem. I enjoyed it more than Metroid I and II, and possibly even Zero Mission, which was like Super Metroid but not as good. Too many Metroid games are samey, with the Prime series being the worst offender; I didn't even finish Prime 3 because it was just too much of the same old thing. I'm glad this game was so different, that made Metroid interesting and fun again.
How are the Prime games the "worst offenders" in being too similar when Zero Mission (as much as I enjoyed it) was Super Metroid v1.10 and Other M (ditto) was Metroid Fusion v1.001? To each their own, but I felt that each of the Prime games at least tried to add their own unique element to the 1st person Metroid experience:
Prime - bring Metroid into 3D better than anyone could have hoped. Echoes - add in a dual world mechanic, the screw attack/wall jump, increased difficulty, and all-new bosses never used in previous Metroid games. Corruption - add in all-new upgrades (including ones where you can finally use your ship), break up the environment into small chunks with easier access, and try to incorporate more NPC interaction and storytelling.
That's not to say that all 3 games were completely successful at what they did (I still find Echoes to be an entirely unpleasant experience), but I don't think you give the games enough credit for how different Retro tried to make them.
As for future Metroid titles, as I have said before I am perfectly happy with Team Ninja being brought back. Just ditch Sakamoto next time, because his atrocious writing and direction is toxic to the future of the franchise.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 03, 2010, 09:39:41 PM
Metroid Other M has a new perspective (for Metroid), switches between two perspectives, a new dodge mechanic, fancy finishing moves, and a big emphasis on story among other things. I don't see how it's the same as Fusion just because it follows similar progression, it's a pretty unique game. It certainly has more differences than the various Prime games which all share the same controls and game engine. I think that's what makes them feel so similar despite how different the environments are; they all control the same, whereas other Metroid games all have more unique control and physics. The Prime games also have a lot of the same weapons and abilities, whereas in Other M the different perspective made old items like the Speed Booster feel new again.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on October 04, 2010, 10:59:05 AM
Fusion wasn't a problem. I enjoyed it more than Metroid I and II, and possibly even Zero Mission, which was like Super Metroid but not as good. Too many Metroid games are samey, with the Prime series being the worst offender; I didn't even finish Prime 3 because it was just too much of the same old thing. I'm glad this game was so different, that made Metroid interesting and fun again.
And that is why you are the cancer that is killing Metroid.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sarail on October 04, 2010, 02:34:53 PM
Fusion wasn't a problem. I enjoyed it more than Metroid I and II, and possibly even Zero Mission, which was like Super Metroid but not as good. Too many Metroid games are samey, with the Prime series being the worst offender; I didn't even finish Prime 3 because it was just too much of the same old thing. I'm glad this game was so different, that made Metroid interesting and fun again.
And that is why you are the cancer that is killing Metroid.
I agree with Mop it up. That's the main reason why Other M was so refreshing -- it was a bit different and changed up the formula. 'Tis why it's my second favorite Metroid title now, too. Great game from beginning to end. I loved it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on October 04, 2010, 02:47:31 PM
Holy cow, remind me how the Prime games were all the same, again? At the very least, they were all MORE different from each-other than most of the 2D games were to each other. If I could draw a phylogeny tree here, I would, but I can't, so I'll illustrate it in text:
(Metroid Prime Hunters + ((Metroid Prime + Metroid Prime 3) + (Metroid Prime 2))) + (Metroid + (Metroid 2 + (Super Metroid + Zero Mission)) + (Metroid Fusion + Other M).
That is, there is a fundamental dichotemy to the Metroid games: Hunters is an outgroup to an exclusive clade containing the Prime games. In that group (Primidae), Metroid Prime 2 forms an outgroup to Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 3. The second branch of the Metroid (NES) as an outgroup to a large inclusive clade containing Metroid 2 and two other branches. The first branch contains Super Metroid & Zero Mission, and the second branch contains Metroid Fusion and Other M.
Hunters + Primidae is Primoidea Metroid (NES) + all other 2D games (& other M) is Metroidoiea Metroid 2 + all other games within Metroidoiea is Supertroididae Super Metroid + Zero Mission is Supertroidinae Fusion + Other M is Sakamotidae
I'll draw up a formal tree diagram later, but you get the idea.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on October 04, 2010, 03:45:14 PM
The nerd klaxons are raging.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 04, 2010, 04:23:24 PM
Holy cow, remind me how the Prime games were all the same, again?
I already explained my reasoning, but I don't expect longtime Metroid fans to agree.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on October 04, 2010, 08:01:35 PM
I'm not a long-time Metroid fan, but I disagree with you 100% Mop. Each of the Prime games were different, mostly from others in the series and even from each other. Other M is more like the old Metroid games than the Prime games were.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 04, 2010, 08:08:31 PM
Each of the Prime games uses the same game engine, whereas every other Metroid game has its own unique game engine. That alone makes the Prime games more similar to one another than other Metroid games.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on October 04, 2010, 08:16:55 PM
Minor point of contention: Zero Mission & Fusion run on the same engine.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 04, 2010, 08:26:23 PM
Are you sure? They feel different. Though I haven't spent too much time with Zero Mission.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 05, 2010, 01:19:38 AM
Other M is more like the old Metroid games than the Prime games were.
That depends on how you look at it. Pretty much the only thing Other M has more in common with the originals than the Prime games do is that Other M is in 3rd person (mostly). Other M deviates heavily from the originals in many respects, such as the authorization system and the fact you don't search for your weapon upgrades. In those and many other respects the Prime games are more true to the original Metroid formula.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on October 05, 2010, 12:22:45 PM
Yes, Metroid needs new ideas but ripping out the things that make it Metroid and replacing it with F-grade anime drama isn't helping at all. What it needs is new items, not the same old set. New items would prevent the feeling of "oh yeah, this obstacle will require item Y to pass" because players wouldn't know what items were waiting for them. And I don't mean replacing 2-3 of them, I mean replacing practically all. That's why games like Shadow Complex manage to satisfy Metroid fans so much, they're not using any of the Metroid items and give the exploration and progression a completely different feel.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on October 05, 2010, 02:13:41 PM
Are you sure? They feel different. Though I haven't spent too much time with Zero Mission.
For the record... http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/488/488084p3.html (http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/488/488084p3.html)
Quote
"We used Metroid Fusion as a base for Metroid Zero Mission, but in the process we rebuilt portions of that engine. We added some new parts, and did a lot of fine tuning. It was a little more efficient than to create this game from scratch, but it wasn't quite as fast as we'd like. We still spent quite a bit of time with it. " - Yoshio Sakamoto
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on October 05, 2010, 03:06:18 PM
Ah, so it's kind of a hybrid new/Fusion thing. Cool.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on October 05, 2010, 04:22:34 PM
That's pretty standard for engine reuse, you always find parts to improve or change. The game doesn't have to feel the same as even small tweaks to the physics variables can make a huge difference.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on October 05, 2010, 04:36:14 PM
Metroid Prime was Super Metroid in 3D in first person. Apart from the story and the exact sequence of events, they're the same thing.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 05, 2010, 06:00:09 PM
Using that logic, you could connect any two games.
Mega Man is like Mario with a gun to shoot enemies instead of jumping on them. Aside from the non-linear progression and weapon selection, they're the same game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on October 05, 2010, 06:21:24 PM
I'm saying the gameplay is the same, just from a different perspective. Way closer to Super Metroid than Other M, at the very least.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on October 05, 2010, 06:29:27 PM
My phylogeny would suggest otherwise. :-)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 05, 2010, 06:38:09 PM
I disagree with that assessment. I do think that Metroid Prime was a good way to bring Metroid into 3D, but it has key differences from Super Metroid. Samus moves really slow compared to Super Metroid, and has much more restrictive jumping ability. There is also a much larger focus on gunplay, even if most of that comes from the transition to 3D space. The perspective in Other M feels like a more natural progression from 2D, Samus is almost as speedy and even more agile, and the gunplay is reduced to simply aiming in the direction of enemies, which is basically how it is in Super Metroid.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 05, 2010, 07:19:24 PM
I disagree with that assessment. I do think that Metroid Prime was a good way to bring Metroid into 3D, but it has key differences from Super Metroid. Samus moves really slow compared to Super Metroid, and has much more restrictive jumping ability. There is also a much larger focus on gunplay, even if most of that comes from the transition to 3D space. The perspective in Other M feels like a more natural progression from 2D, Samus is almost as speedy and even more agile, and the gunplay is reduced to simply aiming in the direction of enemies, which is basically how it is in Super Metroid.
Most of what you're talking about is probably due to the first person perspective than anything. Moving and jumping around in 1st person is a lot clumsier and difficult than it is in a 3rd person game like Super Metroid where you can see your character at all times, as well as where she is in relation to her environment. In 1st person when you're trapped inside a suit of armor its very difficult. So that difference from Super Metroid was one of necessity because it has to do with the limitations of being in FP.
I think the greater emphasis on "gun play" is also related to the perspective change. The first person genre of games are known to be gun heavy, and with that in mind as well as the fact that the Prime games were meant (at least in part) to be Nintendo's answer to Halo that probably put some pressure on Retro to have more gun blasting action incorporated.
I agree with you though that the Other M perspective is great and more natural from Super Metroid. I don't have a problem with that at all, and I hope to see that be used in future Metroid games. Of course, I am a very strong critic of Other M and there is a lot of things I don't like about it, but the perspective of it is something I actually approve heartily of. The things I dislike about Other M are completely unrelated.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on October 05, 2010, 07:51:48 PM
the Prime games were meant (at least in part) to be Nintendo's answer to Halo
For the last time, no they were not.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 06, 2010, 04:02:04 AM
The only element of the Prime games that might have been in response to Halo is Prime 2's multiplayer mode, as some people regarded it as Nintendo's shooter. I don't think it was ever intended to be that though, as the mode seems more like an experiment.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 06, 2010, 09:32:53 AM
I disagree with that assessment. I do think that Metroid Prime was a good way to bring Metroid into 3D, but it has key differences from Super Metroid. Samus moves really slow compared to Super Metroid, and has much more restrictive jumping ability. There is also a much larger focus on gunplay, even if most of that comes from the transition to 3D space. The perspective in Other M feels like a more natural progression from 2D, Samus is almost as speedy and even more agile, and the gunplay is reduced to simply aiming in the direction of enemies, which is basically how it is in Super Metroid.
I don't understand why people say Super Metroid didn't have a lot of gunplay. Most of the game has significant gunplay or other traditional action segments. I would say Super Metroid and Metroid Prime are very similar in pacing. Both focus on not just shooting but learning your enemies and abilities and figuring out how to exploit and beat them. Super Metroid's jumping and platforming feels faster and more acrobatic...but it also didn't have a feeling of realism to it.
Metroid Prime I felt Samus had great jumping abilities that I could feel a weight to, but also I understood the scale and it felt like she was performing super natural jumps with a realism to it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on October 06, 2010, 02:38:21 PM
What I miss in post-Super-Metroid games is bosses that are defeated by slamming missile after missile into them, nowadays it's mostly trick and pattern based, making me wonder what I'm supposed to use 250 missiles for.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on October 06, 2010, 02:39:55 PM
That's a good point. Hunting down missile upgrades doesn't feel that important when you rarely use more than 50 of them in a boss fight. Other M seems to have responded to that by simply lowering the maximum missile count.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on October 06, 2010, 03:22:59 PM
But then giving you a bunch more missiles in the post-game scenario that you don't really need for Phantoon.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on October 06, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
What I miss in post-Super-Metroid games is bosses that are defeated by slamming missile after missile into them, nowadays it's mostly trick and pattern based, making me wonder what I'm supposed to use 250 missiles for.
Well, even in the original Metroid, you only needed to hit Mother Brain with about 40 missiles or so. I suppose the problem was actually hitting her since there was so much junk flying around the room.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 06, 2010, 07:46:57 PM
I don't understand why people say Super Metroid didn't have a lot of gunplay.
I never said that, I said that Metroid Prime has more focus, and is expanded due to the first-person perspective. And to be clear, I still think Metroid Prime has a lot of the same elements, but Other M feels like more of a natural progression from the 2D games.
That's a good point. Hunting down missile upgrades doesn't feel that important when you rarely use more than 50 of them in a boss fight. Other M seems to have responded to that by simply lowering the maximum missile count.
In fairness, part of the reason Other M has a much smaller missile count is because you can refill your stock at any time by holding the Wii Remote upward for a couple of seconds.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on October 07, 2010, 03:45:10 AM
What I miss in post-Super-Metroid games is bosses that are defeated by slamming missile after missile into them, nowadays it's mostly trick and pattern based, making me wonder what I'm supposed to use 250 missiles for.
Well, even in the original Metroid, you only needed to hit Mother Brain with about 40 missiles or so. I suppose the problem was actually hitting her since there was so much junk flying around the room.
In the original Metroid your gun was so weak you'd need to use missiles on many regular enemies too.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on October 07, 2010, 09:27:31 AM
What I miss in post-Super-Metroid games is bosses that are defeated by slamming missile after missile into them, nowadays it's mostly trick and pattern based, making me wonder what I'm supposed to use 250 missiles for.
Well, even in the original Metroid, you only needed to hit Mother Brain with about 40 missiles or so. I suppose the problem was actually hitting her since there was so much junk flying around the room.
In the original Metroid your gun was so weak you'd need to use missiles on many regular enemies too.
While that's true, it's never been necessary to max out your missile capacity. If you were just making a run to Tourian, you could probably get by on 75 or so, accounting for all the Metroids you had to take out.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on October 08, 2010, 03:39:47 AM
Yeah, the metroids also drop a lot of missiles and the rate of fire on the things is limited either way (remember that you need 15 missiles for every zebetite though). IIRC Super Metroid let you fire them as fast as you could tap the button. In Prime the charge beam and lengthy reload of the missiles made them not very useful except as ammo for the combination beams.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BwrJim! on October 08, 2010, 11:53:21 AM
Super Metroid = quick character with about an under 2 hour adventure Metroid Prime = Tank Character with about 6-8 hour adventure Metroid other M = quick character with about 4 hour adventure
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on October 08, 2010, 03:18:22 PM
Pretty sure it was James. You find his body where someone confronts Melissa Bergman (I used this instead of MB because 2 letters might defeat the purpose of spoiler tags) then a shot is heard when the screen fades to black. As you know, Melissa lives to be one of a few predictable plot twists later.
However, shame on you, Caterkiller, for not knowing this. James was the only one with a molestache, you should have known he was bad from the get-go. And unless I missed something, I found it odd that after the yellow Metal Gear battle, Samus doesn't go looking for him or anything.
I apologize for bringing back a post that's over a month old, but this is the only post on the subject of the deleter (other than to make fun of the name) in the entire thread.
I thought the deleter was KG. If you go into his character bio in the post-game section it says something like "even though they searched the bottle ship no sign of KG has been found".
Adam was the one who confronted Melissa Bergman in the cut scene Adrock described above. We later get to see the scene from a different point of view at the end of the post-game section (after beating Phantoon). Besides, that scene happens in a different room than the one where Samus finds James' body. James was most likely killed by the deleter.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Sundoulos on October 09, 2010, 10:15:19 AM
The game's writers took the opportunity to hit the player over the head with a hammer with every other plot point; it seems odd that they would choose to leave the identity of the deleter a little ambiguous.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 09, 2010, 02:23:34 PM
Well, I finally worked up the motivation to restart this game after giving up in disgust after running into that stupid glitch. I hope and pray the glitch doesn't occur this time around, because if it does I'm giving up on this game for good and then selling it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 09, 2010, 08:52:27 PM
It can't be. KG has the big plasma gun, and in the scenes with The Deleter, the person doesn't have that. Rewatch the scenes with James, you might notice suspicious behavior that you missed before.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on October 11, 2010, 01:27:13 PM
Rewatch? You've got to be kidding me!
And if you're right then what happened to KG?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 11, 2010, 04:39:17 PM
He was the guy that was dropped into the lava after being shot. That's why know one knew what happened to him since his body was never found since only his killer would have known what happened to him. Since James is killed without ever telling anybody what he did, it's impossible for the federation to find KG body and so thats why he's considered missing.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on October 11, 2010, 04:43:20 PM
Are we still talking about this game?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 12, 2010, 12:54:03 AM
Why wouldn't we? Some people are still playing it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: SixthAngel on October 12, 2010, 09:51:27 AM
Talking about the game in its official thread. You guys disgust me. You should be bitching and trolling.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: vudu on October 12, 2010, 01:54:33 PM
He was the guy that was dropped into the lava after being shot. That's why know one knew what happened to him since his body was never found since only his killer would have known what happened to him. Since James is killed without ever telling anybody what he did, it's impossible for the federation to find KG body and so thats why he's considered missing.
That makes sense. Thanks!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Caterkiller on October 16, 2010, 09:33:13 PM
Ok guys please help me out again. I know some of you already told me how but I aint no good at listening. That Tank that is in the same room as Samus's gun ship, how do I get it? I see the flashing locked door. But don't know what to do. Thanks in advance for my nonsense.
Nevermind! I read good ol Mop it up's post regarding it, and realized that bathroom was pretty far away.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Enner on October 17, 2010, 02:55:04 PM
Ok guys please help me out again. I know some of you already told me how but I aint no good at listening. That Tank that is in the same room as Samus's gun ship, how do I get it? I see the flashing locked door. But don't know what to do. Thanks in advance for my nonsense.
Nevermind! I read good ol Mop it up's post regarding it, and realized that bathroom was pretty far away.
Yeah, that one took me a while until I noticed steam coming out of a vent. What stumped me and had me look at a guide was a missile tank behind an observation cell. I didn't notice the control console nearby was missing a side on the back.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 18, 2010, 05:36:01 AM
YES! Thank God I'm finally past the glitched door after having to start the game over!
You know the really odd thing about that glitch is apparently it is triggered right after you get the Ice Beam, but the problem doesn't actually occur until several hours of gameplay later. So that's kinda odd, but it also sucks if you didn't realize you tripped the glitch, because then you're going to waste hours of your time before you hit a dead end.
I can also understand why so many people have suffered from this glitch, because it occurs at a bad time right after you have to run through a lava map with no Varia suit, so your life gets really drained but then you have to battle a bunch of enemies right that which are impossible to kill until Adam authorizes the Ice Beam, so after all that happens it really takes a toll on your health so it makes sense that players would want to back track to the last save booth so they don't die. Unfortunately, that's the exact cause of the glitch, so you have to go against your instinct and plod on with low health.
But again, I just want to reiterate how weird it is that there is SO MUCH time between when the glitch is triggered and when it actually hits you. I wish Nintendo's quality control caught that before the game was finalized, I'm sure many player's enjoyment of the game was severely impacted by this and with word of mouth and all that it probably does have an impact on the game's sales...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BranDonk Kong on October 18, 2010, 09:41:53 AM
Well if the game sells like crap to begin with, there won't be anyone to warn other people about the glitch, but the other people weren't going to buy it anyway.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 18, 2010, 06:56:30 PM
Have they fixed the glitch in new retail copies?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: BranDonk Kong on October 18, 2010, 09:49:09 PM
New retail copies? Need to clear the old stock before you start replacing it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on October 18, 2010, 09:56:58 PM
BAZINGA!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 18, 2010, 10:46:47 PM
The game's selling on par with other Metroid titles so I'm sure that's happened already.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 19, 2010, 02:51:29 AM
Now I've finally been able to get to the part where Samus runs into Ridley and panics. It is easy for others to criticize her for that, but Ridley is one scary and tough Mofo and I bet anyone here who was in that situation probably would have crapped their Zero Suit. However, Samus is supposed to be a badass herself so that did seem out of character. She's a professional Bounty Hunter, so even though any normal person would scream and panic she was supposed to be above that, and she never did it in any other game, so seeing her do it now just isn't right.
On a more positive note, Samus authorized herself to use the space jump. She should have taken that initiative a long time ago with that and all of her other abilities, especially when common sense called for it. So now it seems like Adam is dead, and with his death comes the freedom for Samus to do her job unabated. I do feel bad about Anthony though...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on October 19, 2010, 08:40:34 PM
Now I've finally been able to get to the part where Samus runs into Ridley and panics. It is easy for others to criticize her for that, but Ridley is one scary and tough Mofo and I bet anyone here who was in that situation probably would have crapped their Zero Suit.
The main problem with it is that, at that point in the timeline, Samus has already met and defeated Ridley twice (or more?). So even though it might be a little startling because she knows Ridley is a powerful foe, there's no way she should have been anywhere near that scared.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Enner on October 20, 2010, 06:56:24 AM
Now I've finally been able to get to the part where Samus runs into Ridley and panics. It is easy for others to criticize her for that, but Ridley is one scary and tough Mofo and I bet anyone here who was in that situation probably would have crapped their Zero Suit.
The main problem with it is that, at that point in the timeline, Samus has already met and defeated Ridley twice (or more?). So even though it might be a little startling because she knows Ridley is a powerful foe, there's no way she should have been anywhere near that scared.
Twice, period. Some Metroid: Other M press release or some such plainly stated that the Prime games belong to a separate continuity. Argh, why can't I find that link.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on October 20, 2010, 04:21:41 PM
Even so.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: MegaByte on October 20, 2010, 05:26:25 PM
I don't think they ever said separate continuity, just separate story arc, one that Sakamoto didn't intend to touch.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Enner on October 21, 2010, 08:57:58 AM
Here we go: http://www.world-gaming.com/component/content/article/6-general/1005-the-history-of-the-metroid-franchise-and-samus-aran.html (http://www.world-gaming.com/component/content/article/6-general/1005-the-history-of-the-metroid-franchise-and-samus-aran.html)
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Metroid Prime Series (in order of in-game timeline): The Metroid Prime series is a separate collection of games featuring Samus Aran which has a different concept and game design to Metroid games.
Hmm, I guess saying serparate continuity was going too far. Still, a bit of a passive-aggressive move to not acknowledge the Prime games in the proper canon of the series.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 22, 2010, 06:08:26 AM
I recall there was a discussion much earlier in the thread about how Samus is supposed to be 6'3" yet she seemed shorter than the Space Marines. Well, having beaten the game and viewed all the cutscenes I recall the scenes where Samus is standing next to Madeline Bergman/Melissa and Samus just towers over her. Granted, Samus is in her armor during those cutscenes and that may add some inches to her height, but still her stated height of 6'3" seems reasonable.
However, standing next to Anthony and the other Marines Samus doesn't seem so tall at all, but I guess you could just explain that by the Space Marine being super tall as opposed to Samus not being tall. If Samus is 6'3" then they might be 6'6" or even taller than that, especially so if some sort of bio-engineering on them was involved. The Space Marines might be the NBA of the future.
And later on when she runs into Adam before he goes on his suicide mission there is a cutscene with Samus in only her Zero Suit talking with him for the final time, and she didn't seem very short in comparison to him then. So I don't know what the deal was earlier in the game... and also in the scenes which show very young teeny bopper Samus she is very short. Maybe something happened to her when she got the Chozo suit that also made her height grow as well? Because I don't think an adult grows that much higher after their teenage years, but I'm no expert.
Anyway, it just seems like whoever was involved with making the cutscenes didn't do a very good job of keeping the characters' heights consistent. In some scenes Samus seems like she might be 6'3" like in her bio, but in others she might seem like only 5'3" or something. Its weird...
ETA: But now that I think about it, it might have been done intentionally for artistic purposes. You know how she starts out young and immature but she grows and matures throughout the story? Well, maybe she was made intentionally short to emphasize her childishness in the beginning, but by the end she is more mature and her character's height has grown to match her maturity. Or something like that... I dunno, I'm kinda just running my mouth at this point.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on October 25, 2010, 12:39:26 PM
I don't think they ever said separate continuity, just separate story arc, one that Sakamoto didn't intend to touch.
I think he still bitter that the most popular games in the series are the ones he had nothing to do with.
Not only that, but the most popular games are the ones made by foreign Western developers working in a genre type that the Japanese don't like. That must really sting.
Title: Reggie Stumped By Other M Performance
Post by: Caterkiller on November 13, 2010, 12:48:11 PM
"We believe that it could be, should be a million unit title. We're not going to get there, not through the holiday. And we are doing a lot of thinking as to why. Because it's a great game. The consumer reaction because of the quality has been strong. We're doing a lot of thinking about why we didn't get there. I think the marketing was strong, advertising was very good, the social media we did was very positive. It's getting close to half a million."
"First off, I have nothing but the greatest respect for the development team. Mr. Sakamoto did a wonderful job. His partnership with us in promoting the game was stellar. Team Ninja is absolutely fabulous. I'm not going to sit here and criticize a style of the game, but have I read the same feedback that said, broadly, that the portrayal of Samus felt different than how the player in the past had internalized the character? I've heard and read the same feedback. Do I think it's warranted or not? I'm not quite sure yet... I don't yet believe that that is the driving factor to the performance of the game."
I really like the step that Metroid took as far as how the game itself works and controls. I hope it's not the last we see of it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on November 13, 2010, 03:17:23 PM
Why? Here's why: You ripped out what makes it Metroid and filled the gap with one of the worst stories gaming has suffered from lately.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on November 13, 2010, 08:45:40 PM
The Ridley fight is such a pain in the ass. I wish that the development team would have allowed the option of severing his tail to lesson damage done to Samus.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 13, 2010, 09:30:53 PM
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"We believe that it could be, should be a million unit title. We're not going to get there, not through the holiday. And we are doing a lot of thinking as to why. Because it's a great game. The consumer reaction because of the quality has been strong. We're doing a lot of thinking about why we didn't get there. I think the marketing was strong, advertising was very good, the social media we did was very positive. It's getting close to half a million."
If the game is getting close to 500,000 copies in North America, that means it's already on track to outsell Zero Mission which according to the NPD sold 439,000 copies in North America. So the excuse that it offended the Metroid fanbase doesn't work anymore since a much better loved Metroid game sold worse.
I'd imagine the real reason for the game not selling better is probably because of the advertising.
Even though I love the ad, I'd imagine that anyone who isn't already an existing Metroid fan isn't going to know what the hell is going on. Because of that, when the ad keeps talking about Samus past and then talks about how Other M is going to bring resolution, if someone has never played a previous Metroid game in their life, they're not going to feel interested in the game since they have no idea what it's about.
So NOA was basically advertising the game to the already current Metroid fanbase, or should I say, the 2D Metroid fanbase since the games storyline is based around the 2D games. And if you look at the sales of the previous 2D Metroid games, Zero Mission sold over 400,000 copies while Fusion sold over 900,000 copies. Because of that, the game was basically being advertised to an audience between 400-900k, and if the game is close to selling 500k, it looks like it succeeded in appealing to that audience. The problem is that audience is not going to give the game huge mainstream success that Reggie might have been hoping for.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Enner on November 14, 2010, 12:49:51 AM
We're doing a lot of thinking about why we didn't get there. I think the marketing was strong, advertising was very good, the social media we did was very positive.
Geez, Reggie. Marketing and advertising and Social Media... aren't those all the same things? The marketing/Advertising/Social Media was there, I grant you that. But the classic Metroid gaming experience? That is what was lacking. There's no point in me bringing up the myriad of criticisms the community has towards this game, because we've beaten that horse's corpse to a bloody stain many times throughout this thread.
If Reggie really wants to know why the game didn't sell so well, all he needs to do is read this thread from beginning to end. He's a sales executive. Does he even play the games he promotes? I don't know, but his problem is he is looking at its failure the wrong way. To his credit I think he did everything right on his end. The problem originated with Sakamoto and/or Team Ninja, and that was something that was outside of Reggie's hands.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 14, 2010, 03:06:08 AM
If Reggie really wants to know why the game didn't sell so well, all he needs to do is read this thread from beginning to end. He's a sales executive. Does he even play the games he promotes? I don't know, but his problem is he is looking at its failure the wrong way. To his credit I think he did everything right on his end. The problem originated with Sakamoto and/or Team Ninja, and that was something that was outside of Reggie's hands.
What part of the game is selling better then Zero Mission don't you understand? If the online reaction to the game were responsible for Other M's sales then Zero Mission should have been a million seller. Instead, Zero Mission sold about half of what Fusion did, even though Zero Mission was praised way more by the message board crowd.
It's all about advertising. You have to enough of them around so people will know about it, but you also have to make the ads something that people will understand and get interested in. Zero Mission barely got any advertising back in 2004 while Fusion got a good amount back in 2002. Even though the fans on the internet might like Zero Mission better, Fusion got the bigger sales thanks to more ads. Now unlike Zero Mission, Other M actually got a lot of advertisements. The only problem is the ads for Other M could only be understood by people who've played Super Metroid and Fusion. So it doesn't matter how many times the ads were shown since only fans of the previous 2D Metroids would actually be interested in it.
I think what Reggie needs to realize is that even though the Metroid series is popular among hardcore Nintendo fans, it's basically non existent to the rest of Nintendo's audience. The best selling Metroid game is the first Prime which was able to get between 2-3 million in it's entire lifetime. In comparison, Mario, Zelda and Pokemon can do those numbers in their first month. Because of that, Reggie needs to realize you can't just advertise Metroid on the name alone if you want it to be a much bigger seller.
This is the reason why the first Metroid Prime did so well because it had a great commercial that didn't rely on any knowledge of the previous Metroid games and did a good job of giving people an idea of what the gameplay is also about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewcljvJQAQA&feature=related
In comparison, all the later Metroid commercials including Other M pretty much just say, here's a new Metroid game, don't do anything to show how it plays and rely on people already knowing what Metroid is about in order to buy it. Which is not a good way to increase the userbase of a series that already pales in comparison to your bigger ones.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on November 14, 2010, 04:40:10 AM
I get what you're saying, but in all honesty I don't think Other M is the best game to expand the series. Casuals aren't interested in this sort of game period, but Other M moves the closest of any Metroid game (unless you count Metroid Pinball) to appealing to the casual crowd, but it doesn't work because trying to sell Metroid to casuals is like trying to sell meatballs to a vegetarian. They're just not interested.
So that only leaves the hardcore/traditional gamers. This is the only demographic where the Metroid franchise can grow in. I'm sure a lot of us know people who are core gamers and have never tried Metroid in their lives. My question to you is if you were going to introduce a friend to Metroid for the very first time would Other M be the game you recommend to them? It isn't the game I would recommend to someone as an introductory to the series.
I'm not saying Other M is a bad game, but its only "fair" or "good" as far as Metroid games go. Someone playing that for the first time might be thinking "it was an okay game, but I don't see what all the fuss is about" and that's not the sort of first impression Nintendo should want its consumers to have of the franchise. So I'm not saying the game shouldn't be promoted, but it probably shouldn't be the game that is promoted to newcomers because its a very different experience than what the series is all about and people will get the wrong idea. It would be like someone judging the entire Mario franchise with their only knowledge of Mario coming from that movie from the 90s which starred Dennis Hopper as Koopa.
Metroid Prime was the best selling game in the series, and I'm sure marketing played some role in that, but to be fair it also must be noted that Metroid Prime was just a much better game. Period.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on November 14, 2010, 06:15:25 AM
Casual gamers don't give a crap about stories so why would a focus on them increase the appeal to casual gamers?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 14, 2010, 06:34:41 AM
I just don't think Metroid was the type of game with a fresh enough visual style to get people excited. Also, there have been a lot of Metroid games recently so it might have been a pie sliced to many times.
I mean compare it to the attention DKCR and Kirby are getting...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on November 14, 2010, 10:27:21 AM
I mean compare it to the attention DKCR and Kirby are getting...
Is DKCR getting a lot of attention, though? On the most recent episode of Gametrailers' Invisible Walls podcast, they mentioned that the traffic they were getting on DKCR videos was astonishingly low for a Nintendo game about to release. Granted, DKCR is probably going to see a lot of traction outside of our usual circles, but it is strange to see the game practically flying under the radar by Nintendo standards (though still nowhere near as badly as Excitebots did).
As for Other M's sales, I hope they were low enough to get Sakamoto banned from being in control of any further Metroid projects. While I enjoyed my time with Other M, very little good came of any part of the game he mandated (the controls and the story). Get Team Ninja back with someone else in charge (preferably someone from Retro Studios), and we could see a very cool sequel that would likely sell much better.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on November 14, 2010, 12:32:45 PM
I just don't think Metroid was the type of game with a fresh enough visual style to get people excited.
Um, what? Fresh visual styles tend to lower sales, not raise them.
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Also, there have been a lot of Metroid games recently so it might have been a pie sliced to many times.
But Other M is a completely different game, it's barely related to those Metroid games! The reason it sold worse is that it's marketed as a Metroid game and yet is a significantly worse Metroid game than the rest. Maybe it's a good non-Metroid game but that's not what it was marketed as.
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I mean compare it to the attention DKCR and Kirby are getting...
DKCR is going to be a genuine big seller, Kirby is not. Kirby gets attention for its visuals but I can guarantee that's not going to translate into high sales. Besides, the media gave a lot more attention to Other M when that came out than Kirby now, mostly because of the controversy and extremely split opinions. I'm pretty sure having angry people complain about the game isn't going to help its sales.
The consumer reaction to the quality was strong but it wasn't strongly positive.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 14, 2010, 04:05:04 PM
I just don't think Metroid was the type of game with a fresh enough visual style to get people excited.
Um, what? Fresh visual styles tend to lower sales, not raise them.
Can I see some evidence? A fresh excellent visual style is an advertising campaign in itself, the first 30 seconds of video footage is everything. It gets people talking.
Also, there have been a lot of Metroid games recently so it might have been a pie sliced to many times.
But Other M is a completely different game, it's barely related to those Metroid games! The reason it sold worse is that it's marketed as a Metroid game and yet is a significantly worse Metroid game than the rest. Maybe it's a good non-Metroid game but that's not what it was marketed as.
I disagree, I think we have been given too many Metroid games lately. Though I do really like Other M. My only comment on advertising is 1. there probably wasn't enough of it and 2. did other M get more advertising than games that sold less?
I mean compare it to the attention DKCR and Kirby are getting...
DKCR is going to be a genuine big seller, Kirby is not. Kirby gets attention for its visuals but I can guarantee that's not going to translate into high sales. Besides, the media gave a lot more attention to Other M when that came out than Kirby now, mostly because of the controversy and extremely split opinions. I'm pretty sure having angry people complain about the game isn't going to help its sales.
The consumer reaction to the quality was strong but it wasn't strongly positive.
I agree that negative consumer reaction destroys sales, I'm confident that that could be a major factor in Metroid's sales. Could it be stemmed from the initial complains about the NES control style?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on November 14, 2010, 05:25:59 PM
If this game actually had a good story then I'd probably recommend it to people, but as it stands, I'd be more likely to point them toward the Metroid Prime Trilogy despite that it is hard to find.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on November 14, 2010, 06:45:38 PM
As for Other M's sales, I hope they were low enough to get Sakamoto banned from being in control of any further Metroid projects. While I enjoyed my time with Other M, very little good came of any part of the game he mandated (the controls and the story). Get Team Ninja back with someone else in charge (preferably someone from Retro Studios), and we could see a very cool sequel that would likely sell much better.
Agreed.
I just wish there was some way Nintendo could reanimate the corpse of Gunpei Yokoi so they could rehire him. He was the mastermind behind Metroid in the first place. It is unfortunate that his legacy has been hijacked by this upstart Sakamoto.
Sakamoto should be sacked. Sack Sakamoto! Sack Sakamoto!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 14, 2010, 07:20:03 PM
As for Other M's sales, I hope they were low enough to get Sakamoto banned from being in control of any further Metroid projects. While I enjoyed my time with Other M, very little good came of any part of the game he mandated (the controls and the story). Get Team Ninja back with someone else in charge (preferably someone from Retro Studios), and we could see a very cool sequel that would likely sell much better.
Agreed.
I just wish there was some way Nintendo could reanimate the corpse of Gunpei Yokoi so they could rehire him. He was the mastermind behind Metroid in the first place. It is unfortunate that his legacy has been hijacked by this upstart Sakamoto.
Sakamoto should be sacked. Sack Sakamoto! Sack Sakamoto!
Yeah that idiot Sakamoto who directed Super Metroid and Metroid: Zero Mission. Easily the worse Metroid games ever. Give me a break. Metroid Other M was a high quality title, that is getting the same irrational hate that was directed at Metroid Fusion. At least Other M didn't have an asinine scavenger hunt like MP1 had.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on November 14, 2010, 07:48:24 PM
At least Other M didn't have an asinine scavenger hunt like MP1 had.
How could it when the game has barely any exploration at all and repeatedly deters you from trying it through arbitrarily-locked doors and sections requiring abilities that unlock via plot convenience (not to mention a game-ending crash caused by trying to explore)? And honestly, Metroid Prime 1's "scavenger hunt" with the Crater seals wasn't that bad. If you did your typical Metroid backtracking and exploration, chances are you ran across a large number if not most of them by the time you needed them. Now, Metroid Prime 2 with the 3 keys to enter the Temples and the many keys to enter the final fight...that was an asinine scavenger hunt.
Like I've said before, I enjoyed my time with Other M, but all the parts that are weak or awful about Other M can be directly attributed to mandates from Sakamoto. I'd rather not see him head another Metroid product, though I don't mind him being a consultant like he was on the Prime games.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 14, 2010, 09:10:30 PM
I just wish there was some way Nintendo could reanimate the corpse of Gunpei Yokoi so they could rehire him. He was the mastermind behind Metroid in the first place. It is unfortunate that his legacy has been hijacked by this upstart Sakamoto.
Oh god not this again. The original Metroid was mostly Sakamoto since he was the director while Gunpei Yokoi was only the producer. Yokoi was the producer since he was in charge of R&D1 and so he overlooked all the projects made in that team. But Sakamoto was the actual director who's responsible for the actual design of the game. By your logic, Gunpei Yokoi should be given all the credit for the original Donkey Kong instead of Miyamoto since Yokoi was the producer of that game as well.
Not to mention the only Metroid games that Yokoi actually produced were the first two for the NES and Game Boy. Because he was busy working on the Virtual Boy, he wasn't even able to overlook Super Metroids development which is why Makoto Kano is the producer of Super Metroid instead of Yokoi, with Sakamoto once again the director who was in charge of actually developing the game.
It's one thing to have a problem with Sakamoto's recent work, but to act like he had nothing to do with Super Metroid is just stupid when in fact he the one most responsible for Super Metroid being as good as it is.
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Sakamoto should be sacked. Sack Sakamoto! Sack Sakamoto!
Oh yes, Iwata is going to fire the guy in charge of SPD 1 who's recent game Tomodachi Collection sold over 3 million copies in Japan and their game before that Rhythm Tengoku Gold sold over 1.5 million copies in Japan. ::)
This right here is the reason why Nintendo's not going to ban Sakamoto from making Metroid games because he's one of their more successful Japan oriented game developers. Even if his Metroid games aren't bringing in big sales, his other games sure as hell are. So if Other M somehow caused Iwata to get angry, the sales of Rhthym Tengoku Wii and the eventual Tomodachi Collection 3DS will make them good friends again.
Plus even if Sakamoto was to suddenly start producing bomb after bomb for the next decade, he'll still keep his job because of the fact that Sakamoto is also good friends with Miyamoto. Sakamoto was recruited by Miyamoto to join Nintendo back in 1982 and his first game he worked on was Donkey Kong Jr. He's basically one of the oldest friends Miyamoto has that still works for Nintendo. The last thing in the world Iwata is ever going to do is piss of the companies most important game designer by firing one of his longtime friends.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 14, 2010, 09:20:01 PM
At least Other M didn't have an asinine scavenger hunt like MP1 had.
How could it when the game has barely any exploration at all and repeatedly deters you from trying it through arbitrarily-locked doors and sections requiring abilities that unlock via plot convenience (not to mention a game-ending crash caused by trying to explore)? And honestly, Metroid Prime 1's "scavenger hunt" with the Crater seals wasn't that bad. If you did your typical Metroid backtracking and exploration, chances are you ran across a large number if not most of them by the time you needed them. Now, Metroid Prime 2 with the 3 keys to enter the Temples and the many keys to enter the final fight...that was an asinine scavenger hunt.
Like I've said before, I enjoyed my time with Other M, but all the parts that are weak or awful about Other M can be directly attributed to mandates from Sakamoto. I'd rather not see him head another Metroid product, though I don't mind him being a consultant like he was on the Prime games.
So a bug is Sakamotos fault? Seriously. It is the fault of nintendo for not having adequate patching for Wii.
About MP1, I had like half of them when I got to the end, I never even finished the game because I wasn't going to go on a Triforce, I mean, Seal scavenger hunt. They should have been placed in a more "as you go" way. Sorry but MP1 had game hurting flaws as well. Metroid Other M is Fusion in 3D, and I enjoyed Fusion. Your defense could be used for Wind Waker too "Well if you explored the game like a Zelda game then you shouldn't have that many triforce pieces to find". Uh huh.
It is absolutely childish to act like Other M sucked, because it didn't. Just because you may prefer another Metroid game to it doesn't make it a bad game like Chozo (and you to an extent) are making it out to be. The controls were fine, they worked with the design of the game, just the FPS switching back and forth was tedious. The story was no worse then most game stories, in fact I found it more interesting then many out there, it had its clunky dialogue here and there but overall it was a solid first effort.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 14, 2010, 09:41:19 PM
I don't know what game you played, but Metroid Prime had no game hurting flaws (not to mention it didn't have a major glitch that prevented you from beating the game). Sakamoto is over-rated and is stuck in the past and does not know how to make a good console game anymore. MP craps all over Other M, the game is still better than most of the games coming out now.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 15, 2010, 12:55:53 AM
I don't know what game you played, but Metroid Prime had no game hurting flaws (not to mention it didn't have a major glitch that prevented you from beating the game). Sakamoto is over-rated and is stuck in the past and does not know how to make a good console game anymore. MP craps all over Other M, the game is still better than most of the games coming out now.
Did you not read, I stated the fetch quest was my issue with MP, fetch quests are nothing more then artificial ways to extend a game. I've been playing the Metroid series since Metroid 1 was a new game, and I didn't even get half of the artifacts in MP1 when I fought the last possible boss. Guess I was playing it wrong then? Mmmk. Even Retro seems to have acknowledged that the fetch quests were a problem in MP1 and 2, because MP3 cut way down on it (Though still had one). Yes Metroid games have backtracking, but none of the prior games to MP1 had required fetch quests, perhaps the most abused gameplay extending gimmick around.
I forget though, it is perfect to the fanbois. My bad. It can't have any flaws, it is the perfect video game. Seriously, do you realize how some of you sound? Also if I recall Metroid Prime had its fair share of glitches including sometimes freezing completely when using an elevator or moving too quickly and not giving the game a chance to load. Which could crash it as well. To single out Other M is silly at best. Not only that but at least Nintendo is offering to fix the save so it works, no solution like that was presented like that for Metroid Prime's glitches. At most it is an inconvenience now, and does have a solution, even if it is less then stellar. I still think the Prime series is fantastic, but I think Other M is great too, they are just different takes on the Metroid franchise. There is nothing wrong with that.
Also the glitch complaint should be directed at Nintendo and their lack of a patching system, there have been far worse glitches that could be resolved on the other consoles or PC. Glitches happen, and the trouble with not being able to update a game means it remains unless you have some goofy solution like Nintendo has with the save. Twilight Princess had a game ending glitch as well, but once again it is more Nintendo's fault in general for not allowing games to be patched, heck even having a patching system for that matter.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on November 15, 2010, 01:12:53 AM
I did not say Sakamoto should be fired from Nintendo, I said he should be "sacked". The word means to remove someone from a position, not necessarily fire them (although, I understand how it can be confused). His casual games have sold extremely well and he should continue his work in that area, but Metroid isn't a casual game (or at least it shouldn't be treated as such), so that's why I believe a different talent needs to be involved with that. Retro has proven themselves capable in this respect.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 15, 2010, 01:31:35 AM
I did not say Sakamoto should be fired from Nintendo, I said he should be "sacked". The word means to remove someone from a position, not necessarily fire them (although, I understand how it can be confused). His casual games have sold extremely well and he should continue his work in that area, but Metroid isn't a casual game (or at least it shouldn't be treated as such), so that's why I believe a different talent needs to be involved with that. Retro has proven themselves capable in this respect.
Retro may have proven themselves but even huge fans of the trilogy have indicated the games were starting to get stale. If anything Metroid needs someone new to take it over, which Team Ninja did. The series needs to evolve, and perhaps another outsider would be prefect to continue that evolution. Besides I'd rather Retro develop other stuff, I want their talents utilized to create different types of games, not another Metroid game. Look at DKC:R, it appears to be fantastic and it would not be possible if they were still making the FPA Metroid Prime series.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on November 15, 2010, 12:14:09 PM
That's the old "We need to do something! X is something! Therefore we need to do X!" fallacy. Prime getting stale does not mean Other M was the right step. It was a change, yes but so is turning Metroid into an SRPG. Needing change does not automatically sanctify any random change. It needs GOOD changes and Other M proved itself to be a bad change.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 15, 2010, 04:54:37 PM
That's the old "We need to do something! X is something! Therefore we need to do X!" fallacy. Prime getting stale does not mean Other M was the right step. It was a change, yes but so is turning Metroid into an SRPG. Needing change does not automatically sanctify any random change. It needs GOOD changes and Other M proved itself to be a bad change.
To you it proved, it, but overall the game was pretty well received by those that gave it a fair chance. Your opinion does not make it the only reality. The fact is still that Metroid needed a fresh start whether one thinks Team Ninja and Sakamoto had a solid first step is up to debate, but most would agree the Prime formula, regardless of how great the games were, needed to shaken up. Really as much as I loved Other M, I'd like to see someone new take it over, just not sure who that would be.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on November 15, 2010, 05:49:20 PM
I think of Sakamoto as someone who made some great games with the earlier Metroid titles but either got hung up on things that don't really matter to the Metroid series or enjoyed different things about Metroid than the fans did. He reminds me a lot of George Lucas.
Sakamoto wants to tell the story of Samus and it might be entirely that he couldn't do it with Super Metroid. As the technology improved he found he could tell more and more of a story. But Metroid is a non-linear game and stories have to be linear. So to tell his story he has to make Metroid less Metroid-like and make it more linear. And unfortunately Sakamoto is a shitty storyteller. It is also possible that his tastes changed as he aged and he just now finds story more important than he did back in 1994. Either way he has to compromise Metroid to bring it in the direction he wants. I liked Metroid Fusion but in retrospect it really foreshadows Other M's direction. Metroid Fusion was one step in a linear story-based direction and Other M just takes it a step further. I more or less have a line in my mind of what would keep a Metroid game feeling like Metroid and what wouldn't. Metroid Fusion approached the line and did not cross it while Other M did. So I think Other M is a terrible Metroid game mostly because it no longer feels like a Metroid game.
Sakomoto should not be involved with Metroid because he is not interested in making Metroid games. He wants to make something different and should be allowed to create a new IP to get his linear-action-game-with-junior-high-level-storytelling fix on, while Metroid should be assigned to someone who wants to make Metroid games. And this goes for all Nintendo IPs.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 15, 2010, 11:33:44 PM
I hate it when I come into a freakin' debate about something and my **** always gets ignored >.>
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: bustin98 on November 15, 2010, 11:46:04 PM
I hate it when I come into a freakin' debate about something and my **** always gets ignored >.>
I know the feeling. At least you said your peace.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 19, 2010, 06:48:53 AM
Now that it ended up this way, Nintendo is gonna be even worse about stories.
STORIEZ, OOH NOO
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on November 19, 2010, 10:52:59 AM
I'd rather sacrifice storytelling for keeping the Metroid series alive.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on November 20, 2010, 06:35:51 AM
A wise man once said that it is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. That said, perhaps Sakamoto should tone down his storytelling in the next Metroid iteration.
I think he should take a page from Miyamoto and the Mario series. Have the Mario games ever been really story heavy? Miyamoto seems to be obsessed with keeping the story in Mario games to an absolute minimum, and instead focus everything on the gameplay. That's a strategy that's worked, because look how popular the Mario games are... theres no reason Metroid can't emulate that. In fact, that's actually how Metroid used to be. Other M is an exception rather than the rule. Games like Super Metroid had very minimum story, but it shows you don't need lengthy FMV cutscenes and dialogue in order to have a great game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 20, 2010, 04:39:13 PM
I'd rather sacrifice storytelling for keeping the Metroid series alive.
Thats definitely true. But I'd like to see Nintendo step farther into modern gaming with at least one of their primary series. Where we have story-telling and great game play.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on November 20, 2010, 09:44:04 PM
The Legend of Zelda series has stories and that doesn't seem to take away from the gameplay, so it can be done. A Metroid game can have a story but it should tell it in the way that Super Metroid does; don't stop the game to show a cutscene, make scripted events where you still have some control over Samus.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: KDR_11k on November 21, 2010, 02:24:37 AM
The Legend of Zelda series has stories and that doesn't seem to take away from the gameplay, so it can be done.
It's a very precarious balance though, look at crap like the starting village of TP. LttP did the starting story much better: You get told to go out, you find your uncle dying and grab your sword, then you're in a dungeon. Recently Zelda has been taking way too long to get started, not just TP. Think about the stupid forsaken fortress stealth sequence in Wind Waker. I once tried to demonstrate the gameplay of WW to a friend and the game wasted so much time with stuff like that...
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on November 22, 2010, 06:45:40 PM
There is no rule that gameplay and story need to be mutual exclusive of each other. Hypothetically a good Metroid can be made with a good story and good gameplay AND with the gameplay still retaining the basic elements that made Metroid successful in the first place.
A cutscene is just like a scene in a movie. Any movie can be ruined by bad direction, bad acting or bad writing. I don't dislike stories in videogames, I dislike BAD stores in videogames. At the same time one can tell a story without pausing the game every three seconds to show a cutscene or making the game linear. The irony is that Metroid Prime did! By using scans the game maintained the non-linear Metroid gameplay and didn't pause the game constantly to show cutscenes. The blueprint is right there and yet the Metroid Prime series remains unique. I can't think of any game with a design clearly inspired by it.
You get the feeling that no developer wants to use that story-telling mechanic because deep down they want to be Mr. Film Director and use videogames as a way to bring their shitty movie ideas to life.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chocobo_Rider on December 07, 2010, 02:45:40 AM
just wanted to say "hi" and throw in a quick 2 cents.
as Mop_it_up and Maxi know, I had some very strong opinions on this game after playing it for a few hours.
since that time, I have put in many more hours and my opinions have done 180* turns a FEW TIMES.
because of that, I can sadly see why this game has sparked so many debates. however, as of right now, I have to say I'm loving the story. so I don't fall into the stable of gamers who saw that Samus has emotions and ran for the pitch forks. but some of the gameplay decisions are just inexcusable in my opinion. and as Mop, Maxi, Stratos and some of my other friends can attest, I'm a flappin' optimist when it comes to gaming.
hope to have some fun around here.
*emphatic thumbs up!* tee hee
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: PogueSquadron on December 15, 2010, 09:24:11 PM
I really liked the gameplay in Other M, though I wish the story was more reverent and subtle.
Also...they really did some crazy things with the camera and the controls...It's kind of crazy when you start to realize the things that you're doing in quick succession...
HOWEVER...it's so remeniscient of older Metroid games. Even with the new third person 3D take on the game, there are times where I felt like I was just doing the same things I've always done...Samus gets the charge beam, the missiles, the super missiles, etc. I really hope that in the next game, they really give Samus some new abilities to play with, and really shake up the progression of the game. I think it's something that both Zelda and Metroid need to be careful of...I really don't want to feel like I'm playing the same game over and over again simply with different maps.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: balzzzy on December 21, 2010, 09:26:23 PM
I have to laugh at good ol' Reggie for his comments about the game:
"We believe that it could be, should be a million unit title". "We're not going to get there, not through the holiday. And we are doing a lot of thinking as to why. Because it's a great game. The consumer reaction because of the quality has been strong. We're doing a lot of thinking about why we didn't get there. I think the marketing was strong, advertising was very good, the social media we did was very positive."
Quit thinking and start listening to your fan base Reggie. The game just wasn't there, period.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 22, 2010, 08:57:01 AM
While it wasn't a terrible game, I just don't feel it was up to the Nintendo standard of quality. I really hope Reggie doesn't seriously feel that way either. He has to say positive things about Nintendo products, because that's his job, but deep down I hope he understands the real reason why the game isn't a million seller.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Drizzt on April 06, 2011, 07:12:38 PM
Did you guys think Anthony Higgs was a good character?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 06, 2011, 07:30:59 PM
Did you guys think Anthony Higgs was a good character?
I don't have anything negative to say about him. He saved Samus' ass once or twice. Its sad that Samus' ass even needed to be saved, because she is supposed to be the one who does the saving.... but we can't blame Anthony Higgs for that.
Anyway, since Metroid: Other M basically destroyed the reputation that Samus once had, from now on the Metroid franchise might as well be altered to have Anthony Higgs as the player controlled hero who saves the day. Samus can cry in her fetal position somewhere while Hero Higgs takes on the role of professional badass that Samus used to be before her character was assassinated by the sinister Sakamoto.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NeoStar9X on April 06, 2011, 07:39:28 PM
Has Sakamoto or anyone at Nintendo responded to the negative reaction some fans had to the story? How Samus was presented?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on April 06, 2011, 07:48:01 PM
Did you guys think Anthony Higgs was a good character?
I'm pretty indifferent to him. He saves Samus a few times during the game and is probably the most like-able of the Federation Soldiers, but we learn basically nothing about him save that he used to be on the same squad as Samus and you can't really say he has any character development. He definitely could have used a better voice actor/voice director, though ("Remember ME!?"), but that really applies to most of the cast so whatever.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 06, 2011, 08:21:07 PM
His nickname for Samus is "Princess". I could see how some might potentially find that to be sexist.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on April 06, 2011, 08:26:57 PM
His nickname for Samus is "Princess". I could see how some might potentially find that to be sexist.
I took it as a term of endearment. I don't read anything negative about it coming from the character. I found Higgs to be fun. That's not hard since everyone else comes off as so dour.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Plugabugz on May 02, 2011, 12:13:56 PM
I finally completed this game today. 13 hours. even though a good chunk of those was the game on pause or me leaving it idle.
I'm glad this game is over and i'm glad i waited to get the game for £10 because i woulda been more upset if the game was any more. I spent far too much time fighting against the controls and having to stop midway through a fight to recharge health or missiles, which doesn't actually pause anyone else except me.
Absolutely everything else is excusable but if i cannot play without being killed 30 times by purely the faults of bad design then i'm gonna stop.
So i beat the final boss and spat the disk out out of the Wii. I won't even play the epilogue.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 02, 2011, 12:21:11 PM
Seeing this game priced at $14.99 on Amazon makes me sad because I paid full price for it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Plugabugz on May 02, 2011, 12:29:16 PM
I'm fighting Ridley and i have like 50 points of energy left and 3 missiles. So i stop. Run to the other side, remote up and recharge, That's about 5-7 uninterrupted seconds. He flies over, grabs Samus then grinds her into the wall. Dead.
That happened, over and over and over. With different bosses, rooms, environments but all the same resulting problem.
I don't understand but who agreed having two mutually separate control schemes is a good idea?
So yeah... £10 is perfect.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Nemo on May 02, 2011, 12:44:03 PM
Plugabugz, the epilogue, was pretty cool, if I recall. You get to fight another boss (a fight I really enjoyed). And you get the frantic "ship is going to explode in 5 minutes" escape run as Zero-suit Samus (for no reason other than that she looks nice).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ceric on May 02, 2011, 12:52:08 PM
I won't play this game. Even with all the things I hated about the Prime Serious it is still a great game and I don't want to tarnish the image. (Especially the lore and scan stuff. I loved that stuff.)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Plugabugz on May 02, 2011, 12:57:27 PM
Plugabugz, the epilogue, was pretty cool, if I recall. You get to fight another boss (a fight I really enjoyed). And you get the frantic "ship is going to explode in 5 minutes" escape run as Zero-suit Samus (for no reason other than that she looks nice).
I got into the first room by Adam's office where you have to power bomb on the wall to fight an enemy and got killed twice more in the same way as before. I then gave up and went on youtube and watched it.
I won't play this game. Even with all the things I hated about the Prime Serious it is still a great game and I don't want to tarnish the image. (Especially the lore and scan stuff. I loved that stuff.)
This highlights another point. Why WHY do i have arbitrary pixel hunts? QUICK! LOOK OVER THERE and while not moving try and find that little thing that isn't highlighted because there's no scan visor!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: nickmitch on May 02, 2011, 01:53:49 PM
The pixel hunts were really annoying. I had to use gamefaqs for almost every one. The boss battles weren't so bad to me. I hated the insta kills every boss has, but the need to find a way to recharge made each one a little more frantic which I liked. And the epilogue is pretty sweet. Things just don't feel right until the planet is about to blow.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Enner on May 02, 2011, 05:43:05 PM
I never had too much trouble with the pixel hunt bits. Perhaps that's due to an unnoticed high tolerance and patience for such tedium. The shield bugs in the epilogue threw me for quite a loop and it took a while to nail down their patterns and openings. It's been so long that I forgot if I abused the sense move mechanics to beat them or just blasted them with charged beam shots. I know that after the first couple of fatal encounters they became less of a frustration.
As for missiles and recharging, I can't remember a time where I needed to rearm in the middle of a fight. Perhaps in the beginning when you don't have so many missiles. I used missiles sparingly; almost exclusively on telegraphed weak points or openings.
The control scheme has proven to be a pain for a lot of people. Even though I feel that I got used to managing its quirks, there were still moments where it frustrated me.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on May 02, 2011, 05:55:38 PM
Recharging is needed mostly on the hard mode where you don't get any energy tanks or missile expansions, otherwise the save stations were enough.
I didn't really use missiles except when required, because using them was so clunky.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 02, 2011, 06:02:00 PM
The pixel hunts were a piss poor substitute that was slapped together to fill in for the lack of the ability to scan objects like you could in previous Metroid games. Scanning your environment was one of my favorite features of the Metroid series, but that's completely absent from Other M. Instead we get pixel hunts which is a bunch of crap. Its like giving someone a cheeseburger and fries when they ordered steak and lobster.
As for the missiles, there are certain doors which you can only open with them but aside from that you could probably go through the entire game without ever using them and just use your beam weapon instead. I can't remember for sure, but I think I beat Ridley using just my beam weapon, so its certainly possible to get by without missiles. But if you only use one weapon the entire game it feels like you're only getting half the game. Imagine a Mario game where the Fireball attack required Mario to go into first person and then stand still for a few seconds in order to lock onto opponents. Does that sound ridiculous? Well, that's how it is in Other M. Missiles are a standard feature of the franchise, so having that feature ruined and being forced to avoid using them would be like a Mario game where you can only effectively use the jump attack and nothing else. Sure it might work, but it gets dull and repetitive to be limited like that.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on May 02, 2011, 06:04:20 PM
I guess that since people seem to be paying attention to Other M again, it's appropriate to post a link to the recent Extra Credits video (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3126-Learning-from-Other-M) on it and what the franchise needs to learn from it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on May 02, 2011, 06:26:31 PM
Ah, we're bitching about Other M again?
The best way for me to sum up my opinion is that they took out nearly every element of Metroid that makes me like the series in the first place and every new idea they introduced was either executed poorly or was just a dumb idea to begin with. The only things Other M did right were elements already present from previous entries in the series.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Kytim89 on May 02, 2011, 06:35:24 PM
This game would have been one of my favorites for the Wii if the boss battles were not so tedious. I am actually stuck on the Metroid Queen because the point controls for the FPS aiming is just too asinine to adequatly kill the Metroids before they drain my health.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 02, 2011, 06:37:46 PM
I think I caught something in one of the rumors BnM or someone else had posted about a Metroid game going to be unveiled at E3. If that's true then its a good thing to dust this thread off and renew our bitching about Other M because we don't want history to repeat itself with the next Metroid game. The more we bitch the more likely it is that our bitching will be heard (hopefully).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on May 02, 2011, 06:38:43 PM
This game would have been one of my favorites for the Wii if the boss battles were not so tedious. I am actually stuck on the Metroid Queen because the point controls for the FPS aiming is just too asinine to adequatly kill the Metroids before they drain my health.
Continually charge your beam in 3rd person, and then quickly switch to 1st person to fire a Super Missile at the Metroids.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on May 02, 2011, 06:59:00 PM
The Extra Credits video didn't really say anything most of us haven't already discussed. Still nice to see it organized in a nice 11 minute video.
Still, I liked Other M. I thought it was a fun game despite its shortcomings. I wouldn't mind if it was excised from the series because, as stated several times before, it curb stomps Fusion into dust in a number of ways and Fusion is a much better game.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on May 02, 2011, 07:08:44 PM
I also enjoyed Metroid Other M for what it is (except most of the story), and I can see how the series evolved into this game. I believe that if the Metroid Prime series didn't go in a different direction from the mainline games, this title wouldn't have received such a negative backlash. It's best to treat the Prime series for the spinoff that it is.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 03, 2011, 08:29:08 AM
I still don't get how people think Metroid Prime was different from the old games. Metroid Prime is Super Metroid in 3D.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 03, 2011, 09:19:48 AM
I still don't get how people think Metroid Prime was different from the old games. Metroid Prime is Super Metroid in 3D.
Plus it was FPS. Why do you leave that out? That was a drastic change from the originals. The move to 3D was fine, but why did the perspective have to change? That's my gripe with the Prime series.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 03, 2011, 09:48:19 AM
People go on and on about how Metroid is supposed to be about the feeling of isolation, and the first-person perspective does that better than third-person ever could. There's no more shooting in Prime than there is in Super, you just see it from a different angle.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on May 03, 2011, 09:56:03 AM
Nintendo's other two major franchises use a third person perspective. Don't see why all three of them have to. And since all 2D games use a third person perspective by their very nature, it's not really a good argument to point at those as reasons to keep using it in 3D games.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Nemo on May 03, 2011, 11:48:09 AM
It's best to treat the Prime series for the spinoff that it is.
Both the Prime Series and Fusion/Other M seem like logical predecessors to Super Metroid, each with a different take. I think the Prime series is more faithful, keeping the sense of isolation and the story telling style the same. But Fusion Other/M adds a lot of story and makes the game more linear.
Personally, in my heart, I think Prime is more of a core Metroid game and Fusion/Other M is more like a spinoff, since I consider Fusion/Other M to be have strayed further from Super Metroid.
But maybe I'm just biased because I had so much more fun playing the Prime games.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on May 03, 2011, 12:21:57 PM
Metroid Prime gets the important elements of Metroid right while Fusion (which I like) and Other M only get the superficial elements right. Sakamoto's post-Super Metroid games are like if another team made a Metroid game with only screenshots from Super Metroid as a reference.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 03, 2011, 01:43:24 PM
People go on and on about how Metroid is supposed to be about the feeling of isolation, and the first-person perspective does that better than third-person ever could. There's no more shooting in Prime than there is in Super, you just see it from a different angle.
That may well be, but the feeling of isolation isn't everything. In Super Metroid you felt isolated enough, especially with the weird foes and the creepy music on every level. You don't need to feel any more isolated than that. What sucked about the FPS perspective in the Prime games was that the game involved platform jumping which is more awkward and difficult when done in a first person perspective. First person is fine for shoot-em-ups like Halo and COD, but that perspective isn't well suited for the Metroid series which features jumping and grapple beaming and other stuff which just doesn't work as good from a first person perspective.
During the N64 era we had many core Nintendo franchises make the transition to 3D such as Mario and Zelda, but all of them remained 3rd person. Metroid was the only franchise which had its perspective changed. I always hoped there would be a 3D Metroid game on the N64 that would be just as good as Zelda OoT or Super Mario 64, but such a game never materialized. It wasn't until the GC era that we got more Metroid games, but even though those were in 3D they lost their 3rd person perspective. So to this day I'm still waiting for that Metroid equivalent of Super Mario 64. The Prime series were okay, but they weren't what I was hoping for, and the less said about Other M the better. So I'm still waiting for that game....
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on May 03, 2011, 01:49:49 PM
That may well be, but the feeling of isolation isn't everything. In Super Metroid you felt isolated enough, especially with the weird foes and the creepy music on every level. You don't need to feel any more isolated than that. What sucked about the FPS perspective in the Prime games was that the game involved platform jumping which is more awkward and difficult when done in a first person perspective. First person is fine for shoot-em-ups like Halo and COD, but that perspective isn't well suited for the Metroid series which features jumping and grapple beaming and other stuff which just doesn't work as good from a first person perspective.
Dude, if you think the platforming in Metroid Prime was awkward, go play a real 1st person platforming travesty like Turok: Dinosaur Hunter. I didn't have any problem with the platforming in the Prime series, as I thought Retro did some smart things with the camera while jumping (as well as making the platforming pretty simple) that made the process feel pretty comfortable to me. I actually had far more trouble with the Grapple Beam in Super Metroid than I did in the Prime series as well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on May 03, 2011, 02:28:31 PM
I thought the platforming in Prime was flawless, I don't remember having any trouble at all. It's certainly the best first-person platforming I have ever experienced. Retro deserves loads of credit for that.
Anyway, you said it yourself - Mario and Zelda remained in third person. Why do all of Nintendo's franchises have to do the same thing?
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on May 03, 2011, 03:26:32 PM
I would like to play Chozo's third person Metroid and I love Metroid Prime. I think it could work fine and there are even elements in Other M that could be expanded on to make it work. I don't think it is necessary but it would be cool to see.
They could also use the 3D Zelda gameplay to make it work. When you're using a bow in Zelda is it really any different? The only thing is Zelda has no jump button which is a requirement for Metroid.
I could be done and it could be awesome. Retro ain't making Metroid Prime games anymore and I sure as **** don't want to continue down the Other M path so this seems like the ideal concept to try next. I even think if the designers went it with a "let's imagine we were doing this on the N64 and no Metroids since Super Metroid had been released" attitude it would be a good approach.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on May 03, 2011, 03:29:58 PM
They could also use the 3D Zelda gameplay to make it work. When you're using a bow in Zelda is it really any different?
The bow in Zelda switches from 3rd- to 1st-person view and removes the player's ability to move while aiming... hmm, that reminds me of another Nintendo game, but I can't put my finger on it!
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ceric on May 03, 2011, 04:00:47 PM
Honestly think its time for the Rest Phase of the Metroid Series again.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 03, 2011, 04:50:34 PM
I know people who tell me they can't play FPS games because it makes them nauseous and gives them headaches. That's probably not a common problem, but apparently it does effect some players, so by restricting a game to first person you are cancelling out a certain demographic of potential gamers.
Not to mention the fact that FPS games do not sell over in Japan at all, so if you have a game in 1st person then it is pretty much guaranteed to bomb over there. If Nintendo wants to boost the appeal of the Metroid franchise in Japan then having it in 3rd person is mandatory. Since Sakamoto is Japanese, he probably would refuse to ever make the game in 1st person anyway, so I'm not particularly worried about that. I don't have any faith in Sakamoto to make a Metroid game of the same calibur as the ones made when Gunpei Yokoi was still alive, but at least I believe he would keep them in 3rd person and that is one thing about Other M I'm not complaining about. Many things suck about the game, but I'm cool with that part of it at least.
As for aiming the missiles in the game, I like what is done in Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas with the VATS thing where you can target different enemies and even different parts of the enemies. When you're in VATs and taking aim the action slows down but it doesn't stop completely. This slowing down means you are less likely to get your ass kicked while you're locking on the way you do in Other M.Fallout 3 is mainly a 1st person game, but it can also be played in 3rd person and the VATS works either way so I don't see how something like that couldn't work in a 3rd person Metroid game either.
But I don't see why it can't just be like in the original Metroids except in 3D. Samus can move with one analog stick and independently aim her arm cannon with the other analog stick, and one button can fire an energy beam and another can fire a missile. What would be wrong with that approach? I admit you lose some pinpoint precision by doing this in 3rd person, but Metroid isn't meant to be played like you're a sniper in COD so first person precision really isn't necessary. The bosses you frequently need to use missiles on literally fill up the entire screen in many cases, so hitting them isn't hard (although hitting their weak spots conceivably could be).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on May 03, 2011, 05:18:28 PM
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The bow in Zelda switches from 3rd- to 1st-person view and removes the player's ability to move while aiming... hmm, that reminds me of another Nintendo game, but I can't put my finger on it!
Ha! You're right! I was thinking more of how the bow works when z-targetting. Another example is in Majora's Mask where Fierce Deity Link can shoot beams from his sword.
I remember back before Metroid Prime had been released and people speculated about a 3D Metroid there was a lot of talk about how difficult it would be to shoot enemies in 3D. But there was similar talk about attacking enemies at all before Ocarina of Time was released and it showed us how to do it. Since there are projectiles in Zelda it really isn't that different.
Nintendo released Super Mario 64 in 1996 and Ocarina of Time in 1998. Imagine they made Metroid 64 in 2000. How would it play? I think Mario 64 and OoT are good places to look as Zelda has the continuous world and three dimensional combat while Mario has the platforming. We had the basic Metroid elements done in 3D at that point within those two games, they just had not been put together.
Of course that isn't very different from Other M's basic gameplay. I'm just ditching the auto-aim, the fixed camera angles and the constant requirement to use first person aiming when you can't move. I still want some first person view because I like gawking at the scenery in 3D games. But they don't have to make it so that you have to stop and aim while the enemy kicks your ass. You can just lock-on and dodge and flip around like Zelda but with shooting. It's kind of like third person Metroid Prime. Retro knew what they were doing when they lifted the lock-on from Zelda.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Adrock on May 04, 2011, 12:03:51 AM
Not to mention the fact that FPS games do not sell over in Japan at all, so if you have a game in 1st person then it is pretty much guaranteed to bomb over there. If Nintendo wants to boost the appeal of the Metroid franchise in Japan then having it in 3rd person is mandatory.
I thought giving the series to an American developer made up of former id Software guys and putting it in 1st person was Nintendo not giving a **** if the game was popular in Japan because the series was never popular in Japan. They focused on North America and Europe which was smart of them. Additionally, Other M is the best selling Metroid title in Japan.... by being the least Metroid game in the entire series and that's including Metroid Prime Pinball. Unless Nintendo makes Metroid not-Metroid, the series is never going to catch on in Japan.
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Since Sakamoto is Japanese, he probably would refuse to ever make the game in 1st person anyway...
Wait, "since he's Japanese?" Putting Metroid Prime in 1st person was Shigeru Miyamoto's idea and he's very Japanese.
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But I don't see why it can't just be like in the original Metroids except in 3D. Samus can move with one analog stick and independently aim her arm cannon with the other analog stick, and one button can fire an energy beam and another can fire a missile. What would be wrong with that approach?
Kind of like Gunvalkyrie? That game was balls hard. I kind of feel like that complicates the gameplay. Other M pretty much nailed Metroid gameplay in 3rd person though I would have liked the gameplay more if missiles were mapped to a button, there were health orbs, and the enemies were so pattern-y. Controlling the camera would have been nice too. I thought the auto-aim was pretty close to how the 2D games worked. You didn't aim at enemies so much as you dodged their simple attacks while they walked right into Samus' beams/missiles. I guess that's why I didn't mind locking-on in Metroid Prime. Same basic concept there.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: TrueNerd on May 04, 2011, 05:54:38 AM
So I've had Metroid Other M for five months now and it's been a struggle getting through it. I mean, it's not terrible, but with every other Metroid game (Hunters excluded) I have been completely unable to put them down. The "Metroid Formula" is, for me, the most compelling formula in gaming and Metroid Other M does everything it can to undermine that formula. I mean I'm not opposed to change in Metroid, but the changes here are baffling. Like, why bother removing health pick ups? What is the point? The regeneration system is stupid. Why have some commanding officer authorize Samus' abilities? That feels lazy. Instead of having Samus solve a puzzle or find a hidden area or defeat a boss aka all things that are fun, they just give abilities to you when you walk into a room. And the story blows, but everyone knows that. But still, there's still some interesting puzzle solving and hidden stuff to uncover. I just wish they weren't trying so hard to keep the good stuff down. I'm not saying anything new here.
Let's all just pretend that Shadow Complex is actually the latest Metroid game published by Nintendo and we'll all be a lot happier.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on May 04, 2011, 11:17:10 AM
For the record, I am totally not against the idea of (another) 3rd person 3D Metroid game, and I think what you guys are describing sounds fun. I just think the 1st person ones were great. I also enjoyed Other M, and any problems I had with it weren't with the controls or auto-aiming, they were with the game structure and story.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 04, 2011, 08:11:29 PM
I agree with every single word of Grant's post.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Plugabugz on May 05, 2011, 03:27:59 AM
So i'm the only one who played Other M and saw one game that was made unplayable with three control schemes that pauses any momentum?
The perspective didn't bother me, and i would enjoy another third person Metroid, but how non-existently (is that even a word?) you control Samus through each perspective in this game is a far bigger problem. All of my problems could have been solved if sense move was available during recharging and first person (although the latter would be dizzying).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Enner on May 05, 2011, 05:33:40 AM
You can sense move in first person. You're supposed to retract the cursor just before an attack. I don't remember ever getting it to work. Maybe I did it once?
I never felt that the controls were unplayable or too clunky, but I can see how one could.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on May 05, 2011, 05:36:31 AM
You can sense move in first person. You're supposed to retract the cursor just before an attack. I don't remember ever getting it to work. Maybe I did it once?
I never felt that the controls were unplayable or too clunky, but I can see how one could.
My problem with the controls is that they might have worked if the Wii Remote wasn't so tiny, especially its D-pad. For me, 1-2 hours of playing that game just crippled my thumb for the rest of the day. That game really needed to support the Nunchuk instead of the D-pad, and it would have worked fine.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 05, 2011, 06:19:03 AM
A lot of the issues were indeed due to the requirement that the game be played NES controller style with the wiimote on its side. Now it makes perfect sense why you have to enter first person to use missles; there's simply no other way it could have been done without an analog stick. I didn't really think much about it before, but now I understand why it was done like that. So if the game had made use of the analog stick that could have resolved all or most of the control issues.
But controls weren't the only problem with the game, and even having nailed that problem down there still would have been about 100 other things that needed to be dealt with.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on May 05, 2011, 12:20:16 PM
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So i'm the only one who played Other M and saw one game that was made unplayable with three control schemes that pauses any momentum?
Switching to first person mode, where you are a total sitting duck, was pretty much broken controls to me. I think if it wasn't Metroid and some company like Sega made a game with that control scheme it would have been ripped apart.
I didn't have a problem with having to hold still to recharge. I think the recharge is kind of a cool idea for a last ditch effort. The problem is that that was the ONLY way to recharge health. The lack of health powerups was such a horrible idea that it could honestly have played exactly like a Metroid game should and that health BS alone would have ruined it for me. And then you combine that with a broken first person control scheme where the enemies constantly kick your ass? I gave up on the game because I got tired of entering areas with multiple enemies where I would have to switch to first person and one unseen enemy would get cheap shots on me while I tried to aim at the other one thus leaving me with not nearly enough health to get to the next save point. The whole time I felt like I was playing one of those Zelda runs where you refuse to get extra hearts.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Mop it up on May 05, 2011, 06:13:24 PM
Both the Prime Series and Fusion/Other M seem like logical predecessors to Super Metroid, each with a different take. I think the Prime series is more faithful, keeping the sense of isolation and the story telling style the same. But Fusion Other/M adds a lot of story and makes the game more linear.
That was kind of my point. The Metroid Prime games simply used Super Metroid as a template and followed it, whereas Fusion and Other M continued with the evolutionary process that the first three Metroid games were headed in.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 05, 2011, 07:14:31 PM
There needs to be a happy medium between sticking completely to the formula like Prime and going completely off the rails like Other M. (Full disclosure: I haven't played Other M, and don't really plan to. I haven't finished all the Prime games yet, and in the event that I do, I'd probably go back and play Super again, or maybe track down a copy of Zero Mission.)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on May 05, 2011, 07:43:58 PM
I think it is pretty silly to say that Metroid Prime is formulaic. The switch to 3D and first person changes the gameplay so significantly that I don't think anyone playing the first MP was thinking "boy is this the same old bullshit". Plus the scans are certainly nothing the original Metroid games were doing.
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There needs to be a happy medium between sticking completely to the formula like Prime and going completely off the rails like Other M.
Is that not the ultimate goal of a sequel? The trick is to make a game that feels similar enough to the rest of the series to maintain the same appeal while at the same time changing it up enough to make the experience fresh and unique. I personally feel that Metroid Fusion did that pretty well.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 05, 2011, 08:00:34 PM
Other M might as well have been made as an on-rails shooter. If you're going to take away the freedom to explore and can only do what Adam authorizes you to do then you might as well take it the next logical step and make it on rails too.
(I know that has nothing whatsoever to do with your message, but I just wanted to put that out there.)
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 05, 2011, 08:09:40 PM
I think it is pretty silly to say that Metroid Prime is formulaic. The switch to 3D and first person changes the gameplay so significantly that I don't think anyone playing the first MP was thinking "boy is this the same old bullshit". Plus the scans are certainly nothing the original Metroid games were doing.
The first Prime is like Ocarina of Time, in that at its core it's very similar to previous games, but the switch to 3D and other smaller changes make it feel really fresh. But now that we've seen three Prime games, we're getting to the Twilight Princess point, where, though it's still really good, we really need to see something mix it up a bit. Other M took it way too far.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Stogi on May 06, 2011, 09:29:36 AM
So what your really saying is 'Skyward Sword' is going to be a total flop.
Got it.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 06, 2011, 03:26:48 PM
We know essentially nothing about the structure of Skyward Sword. All we know is how it controls and what it looks like, so it's far too early to be judging it.
In addition to the unveiling of Cafe and all the major 3DS titles, E3 also promises a lot of new info on Zelda. Nintendo's poised to win E3 for the second year in a row.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Halbred on May 08, 2011, 03:10:45 AM
My hope is that Nintendo announces a 3DS Metroid game at E3, that Sakamoto is not involved.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 08, 2011, 09:04:52 AM
My hope is that Nintendo announces a 3DS Metroid game at E3, that Sakamoto is not involved.
Or if he is involved he at least takes all the criticism from Other M to heart and produces a much better game as a result. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. Even Miyamoto who usually seems infallible made some blunders in Wii Music. But either way, I'll be taking a more wait and see approach the next time around.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on May 09, 2011, 02:52:40 PM
Hope they do a 2D or 2.5D Metroid on 3DS. It's been too long.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 09, 2011, 03:14:17 PM
Hope they do a 2D or 2.5D Metroid on 3DS. It's been too long.
August 2010 was too long ago?
But yeah, it has been too long since we've had a GOOD 2D Metroid.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ian Sane on May 09, 2011, 06:13:31 PM
I worry Nintendo will pull a Twilight Princess and react to criticism by being very conservative. So we'll either get Metroid Prime 4 or something very similar to Super Metroid. And then we'll complain about THAT and Nintendo will thow their hands up in the air and claim we're impossible to please.
Something very conventional and conservative would still be enjoyable but I want something that has some creative spark to it. A common mistake companies make when dealing with backlash of changes is mistaking it for backlash against the concept of change. I was critical of Wind Waker (though unlike Other M, WW is a still legitimately good game) but I was never against the concept of change or else I would not have liked Majora's Mask. No, it was the specifics of the change that I did not care for.
With Other M it is the same thing. I'm not mad that they tried some new stuff, I just don't like any of the specific changes they made. Being able to recognize the difference between criticism of specific changes vs. change in general is crucial. It's the difference between a series that stagnates with conservative cookie-cutter sequels and a series that bounces back from the occasional mistep.
A good example would be the Final Fantasy series, though it is an example that does not relate to Western gamers all that well. Final Fantasy II is not held in high regard by fans of the series, and I mean the original Japanese FF2 for the Famicom. It had some new ideas that were not popular. But Square didn't overreact and just made cookie cutter sequels in the same mold of the first game. The series became known for changing mechanics in each sequel. They obviously recognized that FF2's problems were in the specifics of the game design and that its failure was not justification on its own to reject change.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: Ayer99 on May 09, 2011, 09:21:53 PM
I thought this game was awesome. Even the story alone makes this a masterpiece.
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: gbuell on May 09, 2011, 10:11:25 PM
I wouldn't complain about that, and anyone who would isn't a true Metroid fan (as far as I'm concerned).
Title: Re: Metroid Other M
Post by: broodwars on May 09, 2011, 11:35:32 PM
I wouldn't mind a new Metroid similar to Metroid Prime provided that the developers (presumably Retro Studios) were actually allowed to do their own thing and play with the concept a bit. Supposedly, when making Prime 3 Corruption, Retro was actually going to play into the whole idea of Samus being a "Bounty Hunter" by having the player actually obtain bounties, explore the galaxy, and hunt marks for part of the game. Maybe it would have worked, maybe not but we'll never know because Sakamoto rejected the idea saying it didn't play into his concept of Samus. Given what we saw of his vision of Samus in Other M, I get the feeling I would have been more fine with Retro's Bounty Hunting idea.
Like I have said, I actually mostly enjoyed my time with Other M, but it was an experience marred by bad ideas and mind-numbingly stupid execution. I would like to see more experimentation in this universe, just more ideas that are actually well-designed and fit with the concept of the Samus character beyond what exists in Sakamoto's warped brain.
