Post by: Gamebasher on February 10, 2005, 08:42:44 PM
The IGN editorial makes that plain and simple: they must not only SHOW it, they must also let people PLAY it! And not only that, they must make a resounding impact with it!!
A lot of people already have their eyes fixed on the PlayStation 3 and XBox 2 consoles, so Nintendo CANNOT afford to not show THEIR next-generation offering to people at the show. That much is clear. It is one thing that Miyamoto and Nintendo itself seem to be afraid of revealing new Nintendo software for fear of copycats within the gameindustry (a fear so far unwarranted), but quite another with a next-generation console competing with two other such next-generation consoles - at a big game industry event that is the starting signal for a new console war!! It´s going to have to make a noticeable impact and build hype from that moment onwards, or the hype will go to the other two!
I am particularly in agreement with IGN, that regarding the third parties Nintendo can´t afford to miss out at all. They can´t sustain a new platform by their own efforts alone, and neither can they afford to give third parties a bad hand in not properly securing a smooth method of gamescreation on their platform. IGN says it would be wisest to simply tailor games to their specific platform, right from the start! I am totally in agreement here. It would instantly show the third parties what the new console can do and how they can profit from it.
you can read the IGN editorial
here
Ah yes, a whole new way to play games. But also may wind up being a whole new way to play very few games, if Ninty don´t secure both proper amounts of healthy hype for it and one heck of an easy transfer of- and creation of new third-party games on that new platform!
All eyes fixed on Reggie now!
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 10, 2005, 09:05:51 PM
Is that right? Lately I'm beginning to doubt that very much.
I can't shake the feeling that somewhere at Nintendo HQ everybody's laughing at the idiots caught up in the "console wars" and predicting Nintendo's doom, while they swim in cash. If you think about it, why is it important for Nintendo to be better than PS3 or Xbox2? All I'm buying the Revolution for anyway is Nintendo games...
Post by: Deguello on February 10, 2005, 11:57:28 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 11, 2005, 12:04:12 AM
They didn't... did they?
Post by: Caillan on February 11, 2005, 12:13:40 AM
Post by: Shift Key on February 11, 2005, 01:59:25 AM
Again, IGN jumps aboard the drama bandwagon. Thanks for jumping to conclusions.
The best E3 impact would be to have some solid announcements about developers backing the Revolution, news that dev kits are easily available, and that developers are interested in the platform. Remember the DS unveiling video? Think like that, only replace DS with Rev and stylus with something else
But that's just me.
From the link above:
Quote
As a final word on Revolution, Ken took a minor swipe at competitors Sony and Microsoft, both of whom have made stat or tech-heavy announcements in the past, by saying, "fun isn't something that can be expressed in figures, and we are ever mindful of how we can illustrate the difference offered by our particular brand of fun".
:rock:
Post by: Pale on February 11, 2005, 05:11:33 AM
::System Malfunction::
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 11, 2005, 06:25:11 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 11, 2005, 06:29:02 AM
The only problem is that not everything IGN says Nintendo can do can be "fixed" in time for the show. Nintendo can still decide what to show but if key games aren't in a showable state now or third party games aren't in development yet or the Revolution's new features are gimmicky and useless Nintendo can't change that in time for E3. In the case of Revolution's design itself they probably can't change anything significant in time for the planned launch. And that's kind of scary. Nintendo's path for the next generation is pretty much set already. We can speculate and talk about what Nintendo should do all we want but the fact is Nintendo has already decided what they're going to do. Whether the Revolution succeeds or fails has largely been decided by Nintendo's actions before the system has even been revealed. If they screwed up already it's too late. Scary, huh?
One reason above all else why I think the Revolution has to be shown in a significant manner at E3 is that the PS3 is being shown. If the Revolution is supposed to not launch last, as Nintendo has repeatedly stated, then it has to be shown before or around the same time as the PS3. If it no shows it's going to be hard for us to believe it will actually launch on time. Now the DS launched before the PSP despite being revealed later but the whole thing was rather blatantly rushed. The Revolution can't launch with anything resembling the DS launch. It will get absolutely creamed if it does. So we need to see a lot of the Revolution at E3 just to give us some confidence in Nintendo's future.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on February 11, 2005, 06:39:08 AM
Like you said Ian they can't really change anything in time for E3, and its likely they have little to show in playable form, I'd rather they give remain rather quiet on the Revolution itself, rather than give a little bit of info and have people jump to stupid conclusions like they did at first with the DS.
All they need to do is state a few things and I'll be happy:
List of Nintendo developed launch games(just names no details needed)
Overview of online plan(like how much will it cost and whether we will need to buy any accesories)
Date of release and pricing
release colors
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on February 11, 2005, 06:49:07 AM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on February 11, 2005, 06:55:41 AM
Sorry but its better that nintendo keeps quiet, After the DS's announcement people for months were wondering whether Nintendo had jumped off the deep end, today they've been proven wrong, but it still holds that any Nintendo announcement will be limited and therefore misinterpreted, and anything really good will get copied, better to address the few sticky issues and leave the major ideas under wraps until they are ready to revel it all.
Heck that could be a great marketing idea; have commercials which say things like "The revolution is coming" and then show nothing else, it'll leave people wondering.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 11, 2005, 08:10:40 AM
I wouldn't say they've been proven wrong. We wouldn't be having discussions about whether or not the DS can battle the PSP or whether or not the DS is just a gimmick machine if all the doubters were proven wrong. I found the DS announcement was incredibly secretive. First they announced the thing but didn't really give us much info. Then at E3 they had no real games, just demos. The DS was a big ? until the launch lineup was revealed. And the launch lineup left many underwhelmed and it's become clear that the reason little was shown about the DS beforehand was because there was little to show. In a way the DS benefited from the secrecy because it gave people time to speculate what the machine could do and that created hype.
The Revolution however can't have the same strategy. People aren't going to fall for the same thing twice. If Nintendo is all secretive people are going to assume that like the DS, they don't have that much worth showing us. If I see tech demos at E3 I'm going to assume that Nintendo has virtually nothing cooking up, much like the DS launch had virtually nothing.
I need to see a real showing of the Revolution because after the DS I just don't trust Nintendo to deliver the goods. I need to know NOW if the Revolution is the real deal. And if it's not the real deal then what the hell has Nintendo been doing this whole time? It's not like MS or Sony have enough time to steal Nintendo's ideas anyway.
Post by: vudu on February 11, 2005, 08:34:23 AM
QuoteI disagree. While the system itself is important, I think the marketing of the system will have a greater influence on potential buyers. I think everyone on this board will agree that the GameCube is a great console. Some aren't happy with its current game lineup, controller setup, etc, but most agree that it's a very capable console with some amazing games. That said, most of us also agree that Nintendo's marketing sucks and it is largely to blame for the console not doing as well as we all would like it to.
Whether the Revolution succeeds or fails has largely been decided by Nintendo's actions before the system has even been revealed. If they screwed up already it's too late. Scary, huh?
The fate of the Revolution doesn't lie in the hardware or even the games (now that's scary). It lies in how the console is marketed. (BTW, I graduated with a BA in Marketing, and I would love to help out Nintendo's current situation. If only I could work at NOA without moving to WA.)
EDIT: I didn't read the editorial, as I am boycotting IGN. Was anything mentioned that hasn't been said a thousand times before?
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 11, 2005, 08:39:12 AM
Why is there this mindset that Nintendo has to do better than the others to be successful?
You want something scary? Next gen an overwhelming majority of the games will suck because all the devs will jump on the online bandwagon. And it won't be Nintendo's fault, it'll be yours.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on February 11, 2005, 08:45:35 AM
Quote
I wouldn't say they've been proven wrong. We wouldn't be having discussions about whether or not the DS can battle the PSP or whether or not the DS is just a gimmick machine if all the doubters were proven wrong.
You can have proof that someone is wrong and people can still doubt(just look at the evolution debate).
Whether it can defeat the PSP in terms of sales is irrelavent to whether it was a good idea or whether it was a gimmick, the gimmick argument in recent months has been only used by those looking to troll, that will be decided by other factors like marketing.
While the lack of games has been a problem and a reasonable argument, it has little to do with the console it self and more to do with the developers who are still attempting to understand how to utilize it properly, which I find understandable considering the machine offers capabilities little used in gaming outside the PC.
Quote
. If Nintendo is all secretive people are going to assume that like the DS, they don't have that much worth showing us. If I see tech demos at E3 I'm going to assume that Nintendo has virtually nothing cooking up, much like the DS launch had virtually nothing.
The lack of a launch lineup has done litle to hamper the DS so far, in fact its popularity has remained in spite of it. The revolution being seen in the same light as the DS by most of the public is actually a good thing.
Also, the PSP had little more than tech demos at E3 and yet you've been worrying about it for a while, so obviously having only tech demos at E3 isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Quote
I need to see a real showing of the Revolution because after the DS I just don't trust Nintendo to deliver the goods. I need to know NOW if the Revolution is the real deal. And if it's not the real deal then what the hell has Nintendo been doing this whole time? It's not like MS or Sony have enough time to steal Nintendo's ideas anyway.
And like I said its unlikely that Nintendo will be able to show anything more than bits and pieces, too little to satisfy most gamers , its unlikely that most developers have had dev kits for more than a few months, its even possible that the hardware is not yet finalized. If Nintendo says too much when its not ready it will cause public perception to go bad. Much better to keep people wondering and then give the information when ready rather than rush to meet a deadline and show something only half ready.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 11, 2005, 09:20:41 AM
Absolutely. But the marketing doesn't do anything if the system itself is hampered by a significant weakness. If the Revolution uses weird controllers no one likes then all the great marketing in the world can't save it. And marketing won't help if Nintendo has a lone port as their launch lineup like the DS had. Marketing is REALLY important but the product has to be good too. Nintendo has talked a lot about going in a new direction. Well if that direction is not what people want then the console is already doomed. I think what the Revolution actually is will play a huge part in its success. Though marketing is essential.
"The lack of a launch lineup has done litle to hamper the DS so far, in fact its popularity has remained in spite of it. The revolution being seen in the same light as the DS by most of the public is actually a good thing."
The DS has two factors that benefit it that the Revolution will not have. First of all the DS is the first new portable out of the gate so it has no competition. The Revolution will launch after the Xbox Next so that advantage doesn't exist. Second the DS is considered by most to be the next Gameboy. The Revolution doesn't have that either. Most are assuming it will be the next Gamecube which is BAD. The DS can coast because it follows a strong system. The Revolution is sure to struggle because it follows an unpopular system.
Post by: vudu on February 11, 2005, 10:20:24 AM
QuoteWith the right marketing, you can make even the most inferior product seem like it was crafted by the almighty hands of God Himself. ::cough PlayStaion 2 cough::
But the marketing doesn't do anything if the system itself is hampered by a significant weakness.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on February 11, 2005, 11:49:23 AM
Quote
Nintendo has talked a lot about going in a new direction. Well if that direction is not what people want then the console is already doomed
Quote
The Revolution is sure to struggle because it follows an unpopular system.
I think you're expecting Nintendo to try and reclaim the first spot in the console wars; well the truth is Nintendo could bring the most phenomenal system ever created and it still wouldn't reclaim the lead in the console wars.
In order to be successful the Revolution only has to be profitable, which is almost a certainty.
In order to achieve its set goal it has to present new ways of gaming, along the lines of how the DS presents new ways of gaming.
Don't expect the revolution to beat the PS3 or Xbox 2, just expect it to bring new experiences to the table.
As for people not wanting the direction, well nintendo has in the past presented a lot of directions which have been viewed skeptically by the public, but its been rarely wrong, so I'm more than willing to give it the benefit of the doubt
Post by: Gamebasher on February 12, 2005, 05:23:25 PM
IanSane, wrote:
"The DS has two factors that benefit it that the Revolution will not have. First of all the DS is the first new portable out of the gate so it has no competition. The Revolution will launch after the Xbox Next so that advantage doesn't exist. Second the DS is considered by most to be the next Gameboy. The Revolution doesn't have that either. Most are assuming it will be the next Gamecube which is BAD. The DS can coast because it follows a strong system. The Revolution is sure to struggle because it follows an unpopular system. "
And Avinash_Tyagi, wrote:
"I think you're expecting Nintendo to try and reclaim the first spot in the console wars; well the truth is Nintendo could bring the most phenomenal system ever created and it still wouldn't reclaim the lead in the console wars.
In order to be successful the Revolution only has to be profitable, which is almost a certainty.
In order to achieve its set goal it has to present new ways of gaming, along the lines of how the DS presents new ways of gaming.
Don't expect the revolution to beat the PS3 or Xbox 2, just expect it to bring new experiences to the table.
As for people not wanting the direction, well nintendo has in the past presented a lot of directions which have been viewed skeptically by the public, but its been rarely wrong, so I'm more than willing to give it the benefit of the doubt."
And my comment:
I think that with any new system, that is changing previous ways of doing things, there is a period of adaptation with the user´s. That is the way is has always been. But if such a new system is announced, it, of all systems it competes with, must be shown in time soon enough, or at the very same such time, for people to garner attention and expectation for it! Nintendo must be carefull. in my opinion, for I really don´t think they will continue to get away with doing things their own way!!! Fans who are loyal demand loyalty in return. I here do vividly remember their past arrogance with I am a tremendous clownboat., and Mario Sunshine, which two games by now have both been looked on as games that did not live up to expectations from gamers overall. Perhaps not so as regards die-hard Nintendo fans, but I read so much everywhere, saw so many opinions that were like this and finally saw Nintendo change the direction of the Zelda -series for reasons of "requests from many many many people" as they put it at last years E3 unveiling. So, they must listen to the people who play games, and even so doing at the time of writing, still more of that is required from them.
It´s not like Christmas where the kids know they´re going to get approximately what they put on their wishlist, and look forward to that. It´s a new videogamesystem, which follows the least popular of the three being on the market now, and therefore Nintendo can´t expect that people will put up with waiting even longer for seeing and feeling it´s promised wonders of gameplay! It is now or never!
Because, there´s a ferocious amount of talent in the third party gamecompanies, and who all mostly struggle to survive. So they will go to develope games on the platforms, which they know people have their eyes fixed on THE MOST, and NOT where people will look occasionally!
When I said "least popular" I did so because GameCube hasn´t sold over 20 million units wordwide. In stark contrast to the GameBoy Advance and GBA SP. The developers look to where there is the least risk of failure, and the highest chance of profit. It´s not really about loyalty, but about being in business or not! Many gamecompanies love Nintendo, but it is not enough if they can´t sell their games on the Nintendo systems!
So now it should make sense why it´s not about Revolution being profitable to Nintendo alone, but to many others as well. They (Nintendo) aren´t exactly placing a lid on their profit-aspirations. They don´t mind a huge sum of profit, as this is only good for the company in the future. If they want to once again become #1, which they seem to aspire for, their new machine must match the HYPE that the other two are a l r e a d y generating! Hype pre-sells hardware and -software for it. The current most popular hype is based on KNOWN types of hardware and controllers from Sony and Microsoft, that they are promising to be better with significantly ENHANCED level of entertainment as a result. That is something people can understand. THAT has massmarket appeal!! But will "Revolution" give people what they deem enhanced entertainment? The hush-hush attitude of Nintendo does NOT tell people out there, does it? But Nintendo wan´t to reach the mass market, don´t they? Didn´t Reggie just say in the IGN Nintendo Minute feature that Nintendo isn´t a kid-centric company, but that they want to make games for everyone? Yes, he did! And I can even now imagine, guys, the absolutely enourmous impact that a clever add from Nintendo about the new machine right after E3 would have which would be so tempting, so startling, so irresistible, so cool that people would drool on sight! And CRAVE it. THAT is what they need to do! NOW!! If it really is so revolutionary, and Nintendo knows what constitutes great gameplay, such an unveiling would do wonders. Then, just going from there right until and through the launch in 2006 would secure their place in the #2 or #1 spot in the future. The new Zelda, and Mario 128, will sells bucketloads of GCN´s alone, so Nintendo won´t have trouble with Nintendo gamers that anticipate the next machine!
So, no closely guarded secret´s anymore! Show us something! Otherwise, it´s foreign territory, unknown, and by a lot of people deemed unsafe investment until more is known about it.
Nintendo then says that, in the DS, we can see something of the mother console itself to be unveiled. Fair enough, but it´s too little, at too early a time to have people draw that parallel. As IanSane correctly points out, the Revolution does NOT have the advantages of the DS, for (my addition): it stands ALONE!
Paradigm Shift or not. If it truly is a first for the industry, standing alone, then it better deliver!! So, Matt Cassamassina is right: it must be shown now!! Tried out now! Hate him as much as some do.
Powerfull demonstrations generates attention! Powerfull ads turn heads!
People go with what is popular! That is the mainstream gamer. Massmarket appeal. They go first for what is massively advertised, for to them it must then be "IN", and safe to go after. It´s very much about social aspects as well. You can be the most loyal Fanboy in the world, but it won´t avail you much if all your friends play something else, and can´t enjoy with you what you play!
They won´t just buy "Revolution" when it comes out "sometime" that suits Nintendo. By that time, if they haven´t unveiled it to people, their money will be on the other two consoles. And the mass-market attention will be drawn to those, not to Nintendo´s machine. Nomatter how good it may play. It will simply drown in the hype and advertisement from the other two console-makers. At best, it will slowly convert even the most die-hard of the PS3 or XBOX2 owners. But still too late, to make a definitive impact in the console war, with Nintendo winding up in the undesirable #3 position again!
So, Nintendo should make another "Reggie-lution", and absolutely blow everyone away - again! Drop all their fears and with them also drop a bombshell of goodies that will have people scream and weep like they did when they saw the Realistic Link galopping across Hyrule Field x 100 in the upcoming Zelda blockbuster. I don´t expect people will do the first. But if it isn´t the first, then it´s at least positively surprising them, and from then on garnering the desired attention and hype. At the following E3 in 2006, with games truly out that make full use of the new gameplay mechanic, it should then be the first mentioned response which would be seen.
I can´t be far off, you know. People absolutely LOVE to be surprised. Miyamoto loves to do that to people, he once said. Surprising them. And that is what Nintendo must do at E3 this year. Or fall behind.
Nintendo must cease the moment! You know what that means! I´t means to take full advantage of a great opportunity to show what you´ve got and know that what you´ve got d-e-l-i-v-e-r-s! Iwata is pretty confident it does. So he must show it, and let people play it! No half shows, prototype diagrams. Only full exposure. They´ve had enough time to develope it, so it´s time to show it. No protecting Nintendo secrets. If they´re not fit for battle NOW, they´re in trouble. There no way in life that anybody from Sony or Microsoft can copy your hardware or software anyway, in that short time left until the launch in 2006.
Post by: Artimus on February 12, 2005, 06:21:42 PM
Yes they can be bad, but not everything they post is the devil. Urgh, get out of your dreams worlds!
Post by: Dasmos on February 12, 2005, 11:03:17 PM
If people want to bad-mouth other people for saying little or nothing then they should bad-mouth people for saying little to nothing......
Post by: Artimus on February 12, 2005, 11:07:34 PM
My comment was pretty true. I've never seen a single positive IGN thread on this forum and the backlash is hardest when they're raising a very true, very apt criticism of Nintendo.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 13, 2005, 07:57:08 AM
Post by: Artimus on February 13, 2005, 08:09:14 AM
I cannot believe how in denial you Nintendo fanboys are. I've never owned anything but Nintendo but at least I'm honest about their mistakes!
Post by: Gamebasher on February 13, 2005, 10:36:56 AM
It´s definitely important to be able to criticize the ones you love. In particular Nintendo. I never buy anything but Nintendo hardware and software, as owning an xbox made me feel it was a bad deal! Bad atmosphere, from too many crude games that are too superficial, or too samey overall.
Then, when I play Nintendo´s games, I feel blessed. They are really something special that no other gamemaker can make. So therefore if they´re off the mark, I criticize them! If they stray too far away from mine and other peoples taste. I don´t pretend to know-it-all about peoples tastes, but I go to great lenghts finding it out by looking at the internet forums, websites and elsewhere. Then I know I am either not alone in my viewpoint, or all alone!
But recently, I was backed up by most people who, like me, wanted the realistic Zelda. And lo and behold - we got it! Somewhere along the line, Nintendo must have heard all of us worldwide voicing our opinion and gave us what we wanted. That in itself serves as a brilliant example of how unrelenting, unbiased and sound criticism will yield results.
Some fanboys live in their own private dream, unable to criticize. That way things get static, and nothing will be good for anyone. We have to speak up if you have something you are annoyed about in a Nintendo game or in anything, and hope that a lot of people will think the same. That way, you have a foundation for furthering that criticism.
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 13, 2005, 10:44:19 AM
They already HAVE the same service as the PS2, they just don't push it as much because it SUCKS. Don't kid yourself... the only way any of the people whining for online will stop bitching is if Nintendo offers Nintendo Live. It seems we're not the only ones in denial here.
Oh, and I guarantee Nintendo is more familiar with the video game world than both you and IGN, Artimus.
Post by: Artimus on February 13, 2005, 12:52:19 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 13, 2005, 01:56:00 PM
But sure, walk away with your head held high. We're Nintendo fanboys, don't waste time trying to bring us up to your lofty levels of intellect, we're too stupid and in denial to understand you.
Post by: Savior on February 13, 2005, 03:20:36 PM
Quote
This forum baffles me. IGN posts a smart article outlining some good points (remember, they're not jsut writing for hardcore fans who know everything Iwata says) and you guys attack them for it.
Pretty much, but the general Nintendo fanboy likes the position Nintendo is at now. A minority like ian sane and myself actually want better. Were not conformed with third place. Id like to see Nintendo go back to the glory days of the SNES. Thats why the general Nintendo populace loves to bash every single IGN article, even those few times (Like this one) Where they are Right.
The article is great, it makes sense, its true. The Revolution or Reggilution has to trully be great for Nintendo to turn the tables....
Post by: Dasmos on February 13, 2005, 11:09:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SaviorQuote
This forum baffles me. IGN posts a smart article outlining some good points (remember, they're not jsut writing for hardcore fans who know everything Iwata says) and you guys attack them for it.
Pretty much, but the general Nintendo fanboy likes the position Nintendo is at now. A minority like ian sane and myself actually want better. Were not conformed with third place. Id like to see Nintendo go back to the glory days of the SNES. Thats why the general Nintendo populace loves to bash every single IGN article, even those few times (Like this one) Where they are Right.
The article is great, it makes sense, its true. The Revolution or Reggilution has to trully be great for Nintendo to turn the tables....
I do not think you are in minority. Many want more from nintendo but are satisfied merely by the fact that nintendo are still alive....
Post by: Gamebasher on February 14, 2005, 02:47:27 AM
"Id like to see Nintendo go back to the glory days of the SNES. Thats why the general Nintendo populace loves to bash every single IGN article, even those few times (Like this one) Where they are Right."
So do I, and so do probably everybody on the PGC Forum (unless they are Sony fanboys or xbox-alike in disguise), since such an envious position at the top of the videogaming world will mean a whole flood of videogames and other advantages to gamers, that noone would mind having. So bashing IGN for being rude with Nintendo is only appropriate WHEN they are, and not when they aren´t, as forgiveness is as important as is criticism.
If you criticise somebody, and next ban them for life, it´s not like the criticism in the first place would serve any other purpose than egoistical protection of ones given favourites in life! Criticism should be constructive, purposefull and precise. Not futile or even ridiculous. So I´d give IGN the thumbs up, when they are to the point about something related to Nintendo. Sometimes I suspect that they´re too anti-Nintendo, but anyone who is such, would definitely NOT write a feature so honest and concise as the one I have linked to in this topic! Keep it up IGN.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on February 14, 2005, 04:53:09 AM
Online is not a profitable idea for Nintendo nor does more than 2% of gamers use it so it won't save nintendo.
Nor does Nintendo need to show anything Playable at E3, showing it before its ready would be stupid not to mention unnecessary as they are not releasing the Rev this year.
Nintendo as well is hardly in dire strits as IGN likes to infer, first place is nothing if you can't keep your profit margins up, better to be third with filled coffers than first or second with empty ones.
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 14, 2005, 05:46:40 AM
What's this "glory days of the SNES" nonsense? I love the GC so far, I think it has some much better games than I ever played on SNES, and I played all the good ones.
Unless of course by glory days you mean when it was first in this stupid contest. Is that why you bought a GC? Do you think that's going to happen with Revolution? Prepare to be disappointed.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on February 14, 2005, 05:57:45 AM
Quote
Careful Avinash, apparently you shouldn't praise Nintendo around these parts because it baffles people.
Yes that does seem to be the prevailing attitude.
Quote
Unless of course by glory days you mean when it was first in this stupid contest. Is that why you bought a GC? Do you think that's going to happen with Revolution? Prepare to be disappointed.
Yeap people seem to be so obsessed with Nintendo being in third place they forget its doing so well financially and continue to innovate far more than their competitors
Post by: Savior on February 14, 2005, 09:13:49 AM
Check out Nintendos financial report for the last quarter. It wasnt that pretty
Being first equals more third party support which equals better games. We all want better games.
And id love to see how the current Nintendo GCN lineup can somehow be better than the SNES, Super Mario World, Mario RPG, Secret of Mana, The Final Fantasies, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Chrono Frigging Trigger the greatest game ever created?
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on February 14, 2005, 09:18:51 AM
Post by: Savior on February 14, 2005, 09:27:12 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 14, 2005, 09:27:39 AM
Well the last I saw, most 3rd party software is bunk...
And most of the good ones are on the Gamecube anyway, with only a few exceptions...(Of course, this is my own gaming tastes playing here)And I'd also love to play with these SNES games you have here...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Super Mario World VS Super Mario Sunshine
--Not too surprising, as SMW is even better than SM64...Pure 2d goodness...Though you never know what SM128 will bring, so let's just hold on to that one
Mario RPG VS Paper Mario 2
--Hey I love Mario RPG, but it's hilarious how people can even match it to the incredible installments of Paper Mario 2 AND Mario & Luigi...Both games are funnier and have a lot more to do...
Secret of Mana VS ???
--Uh oh, nothing to compare this to...But SHOCK, Brownie Brown has a new GC project in the works, so we'll have to wait on this fight as well...Secret of Mana is so freaking overrated
Final Fantasy VS Final Fantasy: CC
--Both of these fail due to BOREDOM (can't stand FF games)
Street Fighter VS GC Fighting games
--Do you mean 2d or what? Because I can't stand 2d fighting games or most fighting games in general...Both Soul Calibur II and SSBM rock SF everywhere...
Mortal Kombat VS LAWL
--Look above
Chrono Frigging Trigger VS GC RPGs
--Time to make DrZ angry and say that while CT is fun, it's nowhere near the best...I easily enjoyed PM2, Tales of Symphonia, and several other RPGs more...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gamecube wins...Even though you didn't list LttP, which was the silliest thing that you could ever do...Since LttP edges out WW (and every other Zelda game except Link's Awakening and Minish Cap)
The one thing that the SNES continues to reign in is the platform category, which is understandable since everyone hates 2d these days...2d + console = formula for disaster
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 14, 2005, 09:36:21 AM
Which makes sense, except it isn't actually the case... GCN has my favorite lineup of games for any console ever.
"And id love to see how the current Nintendo GCN lineup can somehow be better than the SNES, Super Mario World, Mario RPG, Secret of Mana, The Final Fantasies, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Chrono Frigging Trigger the greatest game ever created?"
Chrono Frigging Trigger isn't the greatest game ever created, Metroid Prime and Grim Fandango are. But anyway:
Tales of Symphonia > Secret of Mana + FF.
Paper Mario 2 > Mario RPG.
I never got into fighting games, except for Soul Blade.
Why don't you show me some SNES counterparts to SSBM, Pikmin 2, Resident Evil 4, Viewtiful Joe and Eternal Darkness?
The only really awesome games on SNES that still play well to this day are LttP, Super Metroid and Chrono Trigger. But none of them even come close to Metroid Prime.
This is of course all my opinion, and I've played all those games.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on February 14, 2005, 09:41:57 AM
Quote
Sony hasnt lost money for months Avinash...
We'll see once the numbers for the current quarter come out, from what i've read Sony has been losing money on each PSP sold, and the software sales have been dismal
Post by: Savior on February 14, 2005, 10:02:34 AM
Quote
Why don't you show me some SNES counterparts to SSBM, Pikmin 2, Resident Evil 4, Viewtiful Joe and Eternal Darkness?
Ill try. Super Castlevania, Super Contra, Earthworm Jim, Act Raiser (Screaming for an update) Ninja Gaiden Trilogy (yeah its a port, but a brilliant one.) The Rare Donkey Kong games, Pilot Wings, Earthbound, Super Mario Kart, Ogre Battle ,Breath of Fire 2, Yoshis Island, F-Zero, Super Punch Out, Shadowrun, Mega Man X, and Star Fox.
I cheated slightly with some of my picks, but you cant blame me. All of these titles were Excelent. The SNES had a much bigger variety of all genres. While the GCN has quality games but not enough variety. Thats always been my biggest complaint with the GCN. Of course you might not agree because you seem to not like the same Genres as i do.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on February 14, 2005, 11:37:02 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on February 15, 2005, 06:14:08 AM
2. Stealing connectivity: This is the only significant idea anyone has stolen from Nintendo in a while, and frankly, connectivity turned out to be a lame duck anyway. I don't think Nintendo has mentioned a single connectivity game so far this year, and I fully expect Nintendo to ignore connectivity until Revolution comes out...possibly well beyond. Besides which, Sony is stealing the idea a full three years after Nintendo had it. Nintendo can't protect its ideas forever!
3. Revolution When? In spite of what I just said, I don't think Nintendo necessarily needs to show everything this year. If the Revolution is easy to copy, and if it's not coming out until the last half of 2006, Nintendo could easily recapture everyone's interest with a really good E3 show in 2006. Just give us the basic details and pretty pictures of Mario and friends for now. However, if Revolution is going to launch in the first half of 2006, then yes, I think a big show is needed this year.
4. Online: It isn't (very) profitable, but it's something people want, and I think it's going to continue to get bigger and bigger. Seriously, if Nintendo had real online play in place for certain games (Mario Kart, Star Fox, maybe even Metroid Prime 2) I think it would attract a lot of attention. I know I'd be playing them! As it is, I bought a broadband adapter to play Mario Kart online with Warp Pipe, but never used it because I don't have time to build and manage my own "friends list". But maybe it's a moot point because I think Nintendo is already preparing for online gaming.
Post by: Gamebasher on February 15, 2005, 09:45:20 AM
"1. Profit vs. Survival: Yes, Nintendo is profitable, but it's shrinking. When many of us say that Nintendo has something to prove next generation, it's not just that we want Nintendo to be in first place: the real problem is that Nintendo is losing customers every generation. If Nintendo was in third place with 40 million GameCubes sold, I wouldn't be so worried, but as far as I know GameCube is on track to sell fewer units than the N64, which sold less than the Super Nintendo which sold less than the NES. Nintendo has to be competitive or it will eventually shrink to death."
...I am totally surprised!
Where do you get those financial data from? If this is really the case then Nintendo is shrinking with each generation. Yet, only in the tv-console market, since the GB and GBA plus GBA SP have sold really well. For the tv-consoles, things should hopefully be reversed when the new "Revolution" console comes out. And thus the IGN article´s very message to Nintendo is more important than anything right now. I hope Nintendo see and read it! They should have people see such opinions on the internet.
In all truth: It´s one thing to fear copycats, another to lose momentum for not jumping on the hypewagon in time!
I really don´t know if Nintendo knows what they´re doing. Maybe they do, maybe they don´t. I just hope it´s the first one!! They might simply not care if they make a huge impact with their new console at E3, following a safe marketing plan. Which would be beautifull. Dead-secretive, dead-smart.
Will be great to see Reggie in action once more. Knock´em down Reggie!!! Blow us all away! Then we´ll be not driving home from E3, but fly!!
Post by: Talon on February 15, 2005, 04:09:26 PM
There are positives for showing it at E3 mainly:
-the world is watching this event
-alot of developers and industry experts will be at this event
-the public will also get a sneak preview of whats to come in the future.
Since Nintendo is going with the revolutionary angle for their next console dont you think that they are going
to want to spotlight this console and try and get as many people's attention as humanly possible?
So here are the negatives for showing the Revolution at E3
-The fact that both xbox 2 and playstation 3 are going to be show cased there. Whether you like it or not alot of people already have intrest in these consoles and will most likey be hanging around these booths to try and sponge as much information they can get out of sony and microsoft.
-Not only will sony and microsoft be trying to steal Nintendo's thunder but Nintendo themselves will be their own worst enemy at this years E3 with the likes of the new Zelda and possibly a new Mario.
-The Nintendo DS im sure will have a big presence also with the play chan and a host of new games Nintendo has been working on.
-The gameboy Advance with its new games.
So the revolution is gonna have a bit of work cut out for it, if its to make an impact in the hearts of gamers and the industy.
Personally I think Nintendo wont show it at E3 and wait for a later date when more foccus can be put on the revolution. However I do in fact believe Nintendo will make an announcement about the revolution that will give the media enough to write about until they are ready to unveil it.
Also if they were wise they would have a behind closed doors conference with the developers at E3 to try and get the skeptical ones on board and give out development kits.
Post by: Caillan on February 15, 2005, 04:29:30 PM
Quote
The fact that both xbox 2 and playstation 3 are going to be show cased there.
Sony has confirmed the PS3 will be revealed before E3.
The problem with grandly unveiling the Revoluton at E3 is that nobody's going to care. The mainsteram media want their 'dark Zelda', and American developers are sufficently enamored with Microsoft and Sony to ignore Nintendo anyway. A large Japanese trade show would be better for Nintendo in my opinion, though I'm personally not too fussed about Western third party support. Too bad the upcomming Tokyo Game Show's theme is 'online gaming'.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 15, 2005, 04:59:12 PM
I think if anything the presence of major Cube games would help Nintendo. It would allow Nintendo to dominate show coverage. Nintendo's at this point where a multiplatform mag or site will only focus on the really big stuff regarding them. Zelda, a new Mario and a new console will be focused on and Nintendo will have three big items at E3 that can't be ignored. You can either open up EGM and see three pages or more on Nintendo's E3 showing or see only one page with an odd blurb here or there. Nintendo dominating E3 would be the best thing to create hype about the Revolution because the gaming media are the first ones you have to win over to create hype. Get the gaming media interested and they'll provide constant coverage which gets their readers talking and the next thing you know EB clerks are asking everyone if they've pre-ordered yet. How else do you think an average FPS like Halo became so huge?
Post by: Savior on February 15, 2005, 05:58:17 PM
If its "Trully" revolutionary they will care
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 16, 2005, 03:29:12 AM
1)Nintendo is very secretive and they don't like to release any information about games or hardware until they feel it is in a presentable form and able to get good press.
2)Nintendo also distrusts releasing information early for fear of people copying ideas.
3)Ian Sane is correct, all launch games, and hardware for all three systems are being worked on and finalized now. None of the systems can be drastically changed at this point, and remain capable of hitting their launch date.
So my question is what is Nintendo afraid of? It Nintendo wanted to they could do the exact same unveiling for the Revolution they did for the DS. Show playable tech demos that represents games that will be out for the system but aren't ready to fully show.
With just a year away from launch for the next to systems Nintendo could really sucker punch the competition by 1)Showing games for the Gamecube that proves you don't have to upgrade your console yet. RE4, Legend of Zelda, potentially Pokemon Gamecube can do all this. 2) Start creating hype that PROVES what they have been saying about next generation and their Revolution. It must be playable.
Now, another option is to not have it playable at the show, but behind curtains allow all the editors of the Magizines and the internet sites to play it. Make them feel special, and allow them to hype the system. This may be a much better and cheaper approach that will bring similar results.
Post by: couchmonkey on February 16, 2005, 08:49:40 AM
A blow-out for Nintendo this year is a good idea. I just think they should save enough surprises to keep us interested later on - especially if the system won't be out until after E3 2006. Supply one or two major game demos and parcel out more information when the launch approaches.Edit: Gamebasher: I don't have actual numbers, but I've paid attention over the years, and I'm sure others here would back me up when I say that Nintendo has been losing customers with each of it's home consoles. I can say that I read the NES had sold some 70 million units worldwide at some point back in the 90s (the first time I remember reading any sort of sales figure for videogames) and I believe GameCube has yet to pass the 20 million mark.
Post by: Ages on February 16, 2005, 09:34:11 AM
NES: roughly 70 million consoles
SNES: roughly 50-60 million
N64: 30 million
GC: last I heard it was around 11-12 million
Can anyone confirm any of these statistics? The fact is clear though, Nintendo's marketshare continues to shrink.
Post by: Famicom on February 16, 2005, 09:44:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Here are some facts that we know and some speculations.
1)Nintendo is very secretive and they don't like to release any information about games or hardware until they feel it is in a presentable form and able to get good press.
2)Nintendo also distrusts releasing information early for fear of people copying ideas.
3)Ian Sane is correct, all launch games, and hardware for all three systems are being worked on and finalized now. None of the systems can be drastically changed at this point, and remain capable of hitting their launch date.
So my question is what is Nintendo afraid of?
Well if you want to read that deep into it, you could interpret it as the "revolutionary" part of the Rev can be easily stolen, and Ninty knows this and will hide it for as long as they can.
I personally don't buy that, but I'm just throwing a 'what if' out here....
Post by: Ian Sane on February 16, 2005, 10:02:33 AM
NES: Total dominance. Practically everyone who played games had it. "Nintendo" was synonymous with "videogames".
SNES: Constant war with Genesis. Just the fact that there were two popular consoles means the SNES obviously had a smaller market share than the NES.
N64: Playstation is the undisputed market leader. Just the fact that someone else was unanimously considered the top dog proves that Nintendo fell to second which is a drop from the SNES where there was debate over who "won".
Gamecube: Obviously the least popular console in the US as PS2 vs Xbox is often all people talk about. The N64 was the clear alternative to the Playstation but the Cube is often the odd man out when it comes to media coverage and third party support.
"Now, another option is to not have it playable at the show, but behind curtains allow all the editors of the Magizines and the internet sites to play it. Make them feel special, and allow them to hype the system. This may be a much better and cheaper approach that will bring similar results."
I like this idea. I was never even thinking of having it playable really. I just wanted stuff to be shown so that everyone knows what the console looks like and what the controller looks like and what games are in development. Allowing exclusive play testing is even better. Realistically I doubt they have anything yet that's ready for the floor but behind the scenes stuff should be doable.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 16, 2005, 10:47:25 AM
Ian Sane: I don't think the review of past consoles markets to the current market is fair. When Nintendo entered and dominated the 8-bit market the industry was hurting and was seemingly going to die. Technology just wasn't there. Nintendo released a system that created mass appeal and generated amazing popularity.
Next generation technology finally got better and companies got comfortable with the industry. Competition soon arouse. Sega came onto the scene and became the hip new system. (Yeah I know Sega was around during the 8-bit era, but they were too little too late.) Sega learned that image is important and positioned itself as the cool system. It almost worked, but still Nintendo dominated with better products and technology that was superior to the "Blast-Processing" Genesis.
The next generation, Nintendo wasn't willing to gamble with CD technology. It seemed like an inferior product, except for storage capacity. (and Nintendo was right it was inferior) Unfortunately, the media and the public disagreed with Nintendo. When Sony entered the market, they aggressively courted 3rd party developers with sweet development deals and larger profit margins with the use of CDs. Once again more competition entered the playing field making it hard for one console to dominate.
This current generation holds the same pattern. 3 systems are equally competing for the audience. They are all three holding their own and doing great. But none of them have the hold that Nintendo had during the 8 bit generation.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 16, 2005, 11:25:44 AM
If the pattern is that competition keeps entering the market then Nintendo has to do something about that. Losing market share every gen just because of an inability to handle newcombers is not acceptable. If they lose out to the new product every time eventually they're just going to be killed off for good.
Post by: Talon on February 16, 2005, 11:07:57 PM
the N64 sold 32 million units worldwide
the SNES sold 49 million units worldwide
the NES sold 60 million units worldwide
That being said it is clear that nintendo really needs to aggressively persue sony and microsoft in order to gain more of the market in the next race. However since Nintendo is still making a profit with the gamecube there is no real incentive for them to be more aggressive. Even though they have a smaller user-base gamecube could still be deemed as a success and financially it is.
Whether or not revolution does gain some more ground on the ps3 xbox2 is totally irrelevant if Nintendo is still making a profit off it. Also if microsoft maintains a loss on the xbox and the xbox 2 dont you think even though this system is considered 'cool' and 'mature' that eventually microsoft will have to pull the pin and bow out of the console market because of the amount of money its loosing and is not financially viable for microsoft to continue persuing the video game console sector? (This is a hypthetical and doesnt necessarily mean the next generation of consoles it could be a few generations down the track).
Post by: Caillan on February 17, 2005, 12:09:25 AM
Quote
Whether or not revolution does gain some more ground on the ps3 xbox2 is totally irrelevant if Nintendo is still making a profit off it.
No its not. More market share will attract more third party supporty. Even though Nintendo itself provides a wide vaiety of games, third party support is important. To me, games like Katamari Damacy and Ico are among the most important of this generation.
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 17, 2005, 12:16:08 AM
Why is this an either or situation?
Post by: Caillan on February 17, 2005, 12:27:49 AM
Post by: Artimus on February 17, 2005, 03:57:24 AM
Paladin, people are saying they love Nintendo and WANT TO STAY WITH NINTENDO. But if it comes down to gimmicky mcgimmick or a good gaming system then I'll honestly get a PS3 over the Revolution. I'm not going to buy it JUST because it has Mario.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 17, 2005, 06:15:56 AM
The problem with that logic is that although Nintendo may be happy with that scenario not all the fans are. I'm pretty sick of Nintendo losing third party support, denying me options, and making it damn near impossible to rent games for their consoles. I really like Nintendo and the games they make but I can only put up with a half-assed effort from them for so long. I think a lot of other fans share that opinion. Having to buy a second console is NOT acceptable. I don't care if Nintendo is profitable I care if the games and the genres I want to play are on the console I own. At some point I'm just going to say "f*ck it" and not buy their consoles anymore until years later when I can buy them used to pick up the Zelda titles I missed.
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 17, 2005, 06:36:18 AM
How nice. Go ahead... why confer with me beforehand? What's the big deal? You don't have a duty to buy the next Nintendo system.
If you can't afford both PS3 and Revolution, and you want PS3 games more than Nintendo games, then buy a PS3, what's stopping you? You're going to have to make a choice. I hear that's an important part of life these days, making choices.
There are enough people who will buy it JUST because it has Mario, Zelda and Metroid. I'm one of them.
"At some point I'm just going to say "f*ck it" and not buy their consoles anymore until years later when I can buy them used to pick up the Zelda titles I missed. "
Good idea, nothing wrong with that.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 17, 2005, 07:01:54 AM
Well from Nintendo's perspective there is something wrong with that. "Don't like it go buy something else" is not a good attitude for Nintendo to have. We're not just random gamers we're Nintendo FANS. It would be foolish for Nintendo's future to put us in a scenario where we might have to buy a different console.
Paladin your whole attitude towards Nintendo seems to be "as long as Nintendo meets my very specific needs I don't give a f*ck about what anyone else wants." That's a pretty selfish attitude to have and Nintendo will DIE if they focus on people like you.
Post by: couchmonkey on February 17, 2005, 07:08:55 AM
How many customers can Nintendo lose before that happens? How long can it scale back before we notice that the games are getting worse, or that they aren't coming out as often? How long will it be before you can only buy Nintendo products in the back corner of speciality gaming stores? I've heard on these boards that some Wal-Marts in the U.S. have already stopped carrying the GameCube, and a few smaller retailers have done the same thing in my city.
Now that Nintendo no longer has the handheld market all to itself, the company will have to compete or die.
Nintendo isn't doomed today or tomorrow or even three years from now; I think it will still be in the videogame business for at least a decade to come. But Nintendo won't survive forever if it keeps losing customers and that makes me sad!
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 17, 2005, 07:13:28 AM
I thought I was right in thinking that Nintendo fans were Nintendo fans because they enjoyed Nintendo games. Do you enjoy the games they make or the games their hardware allows you to play?
If the former, buy a Revolution. If the latter, buy something else. If both, buy both or choose between them. I don't see what's so controversial about my logic. All I'm doing is dispensing extremely obvious advice.
Nintendo's market share isn't going to decrease indefinitely. You're neglecting all the people who will buy their consoles just for their games... such people do exist. All the Zelda nuts, Mario freaks, Pokemon addicts and Metroid lovers make up a minimum userbase that isn't negligible.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 17, 2005, 07:40:08 AM
I enjoy both. Some people were Nintendo fans before the N64 you know. There was a time where Nintendo fans had both and enjoyed both.
Plus I expect different things from Nintendo the game maker and Nintendo the console maker. A game maker's job is to make great games which Nintendo is pretty damn good at. But the console maker's job is to serve their userbase and that means providing options and attracting third party support. Nintendo as is fails as a console maker.
"You're neglecting all the people who will buy their consoles just for their games... such people do exist. All the Zelda nuts, Mario freaks, Pokemon addicts and Metroid lovers make up a minimum userbase that isn't negligible."
The amount of people who are like that is smaller than the total Cube userbase. Nintendo's games cost money to make and therefore have to sell a certain amount of copies to make a profit. Nintendo's Cube games don't sell nearly as well as their N64 games did. If they have less people to sell to then they have to make some cut backs. They have to cut lower selling titles and scale back the games they do make to fit a smaller budget. That will hurt the quality of their games which in turn will turn away some fans. If Nintendo adapts a model that only appeals to those who would buy a whole console just for their games then they will die out because such a userbase would gradually shrink with few new people coming in to take their place.
Plus if Nintendo games were all that was on the console then why make a console in the first place? If Nintendo is only competent as a game maker then they're ripping us all off by making us buy a whole console just for like 20 games. If they're going to focus entirely on the total diehards then they might as well go third party instead of screwing everyone over with virtually useless hardware.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 17, 2005, 07:53:08 AM
Ummm...I'm still here...*raises hand*
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 17, 2005, 08:18:24 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 17, 2005, 10:18:31 AM
I guess you have a point though... if Nintendo games didn't satisfy me and I couldn't afford another console I'd probably be pissed. You have my condolences.
Post by: Artimus on February 17, 2005, 10:29:55 PM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on February 18, 2005, 09:30:24 AM
Quote
Plain and simple: If Nintendo wants to be number one they will have to show the console with a solid line-up at E3. I am backing Ian up all the way on this topic because i too was disapointed with th elaunch of the DS. Nintendo keeps saying that they want only to be number one, so if they go into E3 with a bunch of wishy-washy promises, people are going to look elsewhere.
And the best way to avoid wishy-washy promises would be towait until you are ready and not worry about making a big splash at E3.
Remember E3 is not the be all and end all, heck if they wanted to they could ressurect Spaceworld and show it off there instead.
Post by: nemo_83 on February 18, 2005, 11:40:40 AM
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 18, 2005, 12:06:54 PM
Remember E3 is not the be all and end all, heck if they wanted to they could ressurect Spaceworld and show it off there instead.
It would already be too late by then! Companies, and the public are going to give them their chance at E3. If they disapoint then, then they are already screwed. Lets pretend that E3 was today. Sony shows off the PS3 to the public and shows the game quality is similar to what weve seen in the movie Shrek 2. Fnas drop their jaws at games possibly as Final Fantasy Xlll, GTA,GT5, and more. Then XBox shows their console and gives the public promises that it can play both PC and XBox games, fully upgradable, and people wet their pants at Halo 3 and DOA4, and may I say it, A Square-Enix game. Then we go to Nintendo, they show us a list of games, some tech-specs, and tell us to "wait and see." Gamers by then would have already made up their mind. Im not saying everyone would, but enough to start trasing Nintendo all over again, and get their hopes up for the other consoles. This would also happen with developers:theyd go to Sony and my post is a train wreck.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on February 18, 2005, 12:20:54 PM
Quote
Then we go to Nintendo, they show us a list of games, some tech-specs, and tell us to "wait and see." Gamers by then would have already made up their mind. Im not saying everyone would, but enough to start trasing Nintendo all over again, and get their hopes up for the other consoles. This would also happen with developers:theyd go to Sony and my post is a train wreck.
It would be worse if Nintendo had a bad showing at E3 rather than a subdued showing, rushing to meet E3 would be worse than pointless. Also the only concern that would be raised by Nintendo remaining quiet would be whether they would release on time, an issue that could be quashed at a later showing of the Revolution in all its glory, also rushing to show off the Revolution at E3 would mean they would have a samller cache of third party devs to present their games, which would spur more talk of nintendo having no third party support, which is a bigger issue with gamers, but at a later showing more Devs would have Rev dev kits and also have demos of games they want to release, maybe even at launch.
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 18, 2005, 12:38:00 PM
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 18, 2005, 12:40:02 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 18, 2005, 12:41:50 PM
You're assuming Nintendo has to rush to meet E3. If they're on the ball and doing things right then they can be ready to show something at E3. And if they're not in a position to show stuff yet then I think they've already lost. There's no way they can launch before the PS3 otherwise. Having a poor showing at E3 would be bad but Nintendo shouldn't be at that position right now. If they're not it doesn't matter what they show or when they show it they're already behind and are thus already screwed. If they're launching in 2006 then debuting at E3 2005 should been part of their plan well ahead of time.
Oh and MS rushed E3 2001. Halo was clearly not very ready at that point and there was a lot of talk that the Xbox just wasn't going to make it. But they pulled it all together and delivered the console on time with Halo (which was polished enough to be one of this gen's best sellers). They weren't completely ready for E3 but they HAD to show something so they did and they recovered from it. They had to show the Xbox because it was the last E3 before launch. If Nintendo launches the Rev within the first half of 2006 then E3 2006 is TOO LATE. And if they don't launch in the first half the chances of them beating Sony to the market are pretty much nil. They don't have time to wait. And there has to be an E3 showing before launch. That's the big show. Nothing else is good enough. E3 recap on the cover sells magazines. Private Nintendo show that the average gamer doesn't know about doesn't even end up on the cover.
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 18, 2005, 12:42:22 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 18, 2005, 04:39:22 PM
"We realize that things such as having a strong software line-up at launch is critical to the success of Revolution. We understand what kinds of technologies and experiences the market is asking for. You are certainly correct that our financial and creative resources are vast, and we intend to fully flex this muscle more than ever in the coming years."~~George Harrison
Post by: Famicom on February 18, 2005, 05:05:45 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 18, 2005, 07:20:47 PM
"We realize that things such as having a strong software line-up at launch is critical to the success of Revolution" is the best thing I've heard yet regarding the Revolution. If this truly is their plan then they have no reason not to show the Rev at E3. If that's their plan they have to be reasonably ready by now to at least demo some stuff behind curtains.
Post by: Savior on February 18, 2005, 07:30:11 PM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on February 19, 2005, 04:26:38 AM
Quote
You're assuming Nintendo has to rush to meet E3. If they're on the ball and doing things right then they can be ready to show something at E3. And if they're not in a position to show stuff yet then I think they've already lost. There's no way they can launch before the PS3 otherwise. Having a poor showing at E3 would be bad but Nintendo shouldn't be at that position right now. If they're not it doesn't matter what they show or when they show it they're already behind and are thus already screwed. If they're launching in 2006 then debuting at E3 2005 should been part of their plan well ahead of time.
Debuting is one thing, being playable is another, with nintendo being as tightlipped as they are and only having decided on the final spes of the Rev rather recently, its quite likely that internal, let alone external devs have had little time to play with the dev kits, that makes it unlikely they will have much playable at E3, I'd rather them take their time and then show us something big when they are ready.
That's my basic point, Nintendo shouldn't rush to meet E3, if they can have demos which they are satisfied with at E3, all well and good, if not then I would rather wait until they do for them to show us.
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 20, 2005, 07:37:42 AM
Im learning!
