Topic: Episode 265: When Herschel Met Luke (Restaurant Scene)

[Yoshidious]

We are finally living in a post-N64-drama world.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rfn/28266

Jonny returns this week with boundless enthusiasm and a bag of game impressions. First up is Kirby Mass Attack, the late DS release with clever gameplay, a few control issues, and a couple of awesome mini-games. Jonny also has a quick tale of playing Tiger Woods 12: The Masters with his dad. James follows with his highly anticipated thoughts on Professor Layton & The Last Specter, which he completed in two days and proceeded to pour a dozen more hours into the London Life add-on mode. Lindy takes a first look at PixelJunk Sidescroller, a retro-styled horizontal shmup just released on PS3 that will hold great appeal for Gradius fans. Greg wraps up New Business with a special report on the London edition of the Zelda 25th Anniversary Concert that you don't want to miss!

Listener Mail also returns, and this week's emails deliver lots of heated discussion. Is it true that RFN doesn't care about Kirby? Where the hell would you put extra buttons and a second Circle Pad on a 3DS redesign? Is Pokemon a real RPG? What exactly is wrong with Nintendo's stock owners? We answer all these questions and much more. Please send your emails for next time with this handy contact page!

Don't forget that RetroActive is coming up next week, and the official forum thread for River City Ransom is already bustling. Play the game and leave your comments for a chance to be read on the show! Finally, you'll hear on the show that we just announced the return of our live podcast telethon for Child's Play. Much more details are on the way, but for now, please mark your calendar for Saturday, November 19th at Noon Eastern.

[happyastoria]

I loved Gerudo Valley, Greg. In fact, I thought it was better than the Spanish original.
 
 For everyone else, here's a bootleg copy of the song (pretty good quality): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLXGFUCeshs

[Da Jarvis]

I loved Gerudo Valley, Greg. In fact, I thought it was better than the Spanish original.
 
 For everyone else, here's a bootleg copy of the song (pretty good quality): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLXGFUCeshs

After hearing that, I actually have to agree with Greg. Gerudo Valley is not the same without the Spanish Influence

[Crimm]

Notes on a page don't make a song. They're an important component, certainly, but they're not the only identifier. Instrumentation, dynamic content, performance style and tone are all elements of a composition. The notes are much the same, but the tone is entirely different. This is a high-dramatic tension performance. The actual Gerudo Valley theme is laid back. It's folk music.


This is a different song.

[happyastoria]

Notes on a page don't make a song. They're an important component, certainly, but they're not the only identifier. Instrumentation, dynamic content, performance style and tone are all elements of a composition. The notes are much the same, but the tone is entirely different. This is a high-dramatic tension performance. The actual Gerudo Valley theme is laid back. It's folk music.


This is a different song.

I still prefer this version the most! Am I the only one who likes this version? Come on, the intro is pretty amazing!

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

So, does the symphony tour CD come with all early copies of Skyward Sword or only as a pre-order bonus? I would absolutely love it if I could see the orchestra live next year, but schedule conflicts may prevent that from happening. That CD would be the next best thing - I can enjoy all the nice arrangements without them being drowned out by people who apparently don't realise that you wait until the piece is finished before you cheer.

[Steel Diver]

Just a correction, Kirby Mass Attack's pinball mini game can be controlled with the shoulder buttons. Just Thought I would mention that. Great episode though.

[Da Jarvis]

So, does the symphony tour CD come with all early copies of Skyward Sword or only as a pre-order bonus? I would absolutely love it if I could see the orchestra live next year, but schedule conflicts may prevent that from happening. That CD would be the next best thing - I can enjoy all the nice arrangements without them being drowned out by people who apparently don't realise that you wait until the piece is finished before you cheer.

This is a quote from the Nintendo Press Release:

"Also for The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, every copy in the initial production of the game will come packaged with a special music CD featuring orchestral arrangements of select songs that will be performed at The Legend of Zelda 25th Anniversary Symphony Concert."

So to answer your question, yes, all first copies of the game come with the Symphony Soundtrack. Personally, I would of prefered the games soundtrack, but this is prety good too .

[Ceric]

SSF4 you can use coins to get more Streetpass figurines.

[noname2200]

I have to agree with Jonny; the touch screen on my 3DS seems to be far less sensitive than the one on my Phat.

[Ceric]

I have to agree with Jonny; the touch screen on my 3DS seems to be far less sensitive than the one on my Phat.

I wish I could say that but my Phat's touchscreen is dead...

[KDR_11k]

Capacitative doesn't work for pointy things, a DS with a capacitative screen wouldn't work with a stylus, only a finger. Pretty damn hard to touch anything small with your finger on that screen.

I think a savvy investor doesn't need to know what the Wii U is like to know whether it'll be worth keeping Nintendo shares for. It's the software that sells systems and Nintendo's software strategy is much more critical. I don't think the Wii U's strategy differs from the 3DS's in that regard. The 3DS failed to serve that gigantic expanded market Nintendo had with the Wii and DS so of course it isn't very successful. The Wii U will likely be similar, failing to offer much to that expanded audience and shrinking Nintendo's appeal back to the previous gen core gamers. Without a change in strategy we're looking at another N64/Gamecube style decay.


Of course it's hard to sell your new system to your old audience, Sony didn't manage that either as the whole Singstar/Buzz audience saw no need to migrate to the PS3 (HD isn't exactly a game changer for those games). I'm pretty damn certain that games as something you cannot share with the family (which would be the reason for the portable screen of the Wii U) is not something the expanded audience is interested in, the Wii was successful precisely because its appeal was so broad that you didn't need to keep it separate from the living room TV, everybody liked its games.

[Ceric]

You can use the right style of stylus which is more expensive but yeah its trouble plus My fingers don't always register on Capacitive screens.

Anyway, Nintendo was pretty clear they wanted to go for the more Core crowd with the 3DS. Unfortunately Nintendo didn't realize how much there knowledge of that crowd has eroded and made some key mistakes.  I would not be very surprised to find the Wii U being more geared toward family still.  Having the dual screens could lead to having a player spectator style of gaming possible.

Just think of a game that you need a specific view to play, like an FPS.  The Spectator view on the TV could show different cool angles, other places, maybe even be G rated while you have the T stuff on your screen.  There is potential there to really make a good show for the folks watching.

Better example, think about Mario Galaxy and while you going through the level the TV Person could use a Wiimote to navigate it in a top down style view and putting in Waypoints of interesting things they found or switch it to how its traditionally Viewed.

[Ceric]

Can we get the Skype call in account early this time? 
Maybe a Pre-registration of something.

New goal, everyone.  2 Day Podcast everyone.  2... Days...

Where is the Child's Play page link?

[KDR_11k]

Anyway, Nintendo was pretty clear they wanted to go for the more Core crowd with the 3DS. Unfortunately Nintendo didn't realize how much there knowledge of that crowd has eroded and made some key mistakes.

I don't think Nintendo is serving the core any worse than before. It's just that Nintendo making core games wasn't enough to carry the Gamecube and it won't carry any other system either.

Just think of a game that you need a specific view to play, like an FPS.  The Spectator view on the TV could show different cool angles, other places, maybe even be G rated while you have the T stuff on your screen.  There is potential there to really make a good show for the folks watching.

Watching. Watching is not gaming. When only one person is playing and the rest is watching that's usually a reason for the one person to get booted off the TV. I know the obvious potential advantages for core games but the fact is that the core alone will not carry Nintendo, they need to appeal to ALL the people who bought the Wii and give them a real reason to spend hundreds of dollars on a new system. Especially considering how badly the Wii's unique features were treated by developers first and third party alike as the generation progressed.

The trick is that it doesn't matter if the killer apps really use the features of the system, it's enough that they aren't available for the old system. It's irrelevant what the hardware can do. It may facilitate the creation of a killer app but in the end it's all up to the software developers and their management to deliver games that make the system worth its price. The 3DS is a testament to that, Nintendo believed that features of the hardware could carry it across a time with no software. Didn't work.

Unless we see an indication that Nintendo's software strategy shifts away from the Gamecube again we should be prepared for another Gamecube regardless of what the Wii U hardware is. Think about it, the Wii is only a Gamecube with a new controller and even that controller is barely used in some of the killer app games (Mario Kart and NSMBW, for example) but it sold way, WAY better than the Gamecube due to a better software strategy that appealed to more people. Mario Kart and NSMBW could have been this big on the Gamecube but instead we got games that were more concerned with adding novelties like dual drivers or water packs.

[Ceric]

I still think that F.L.U.D.D was a clever way to get around some of the inherent flaws with 3D Platforming.

People watch Football because its entertaining while some really just want to play it. 
What I was trying to get across was the idea of giving the main screen an experience that someone who is not playing the game will want to watch while the player enjoys the game.

[EvilMario]

In regards to Kirby Mass Attack, after collecting a specific about of Medals, you begin to unlock the Achievements List. Thus, at the end of the game if you've collected a large amount of medals, you can see all the Achievements.


And if you want more of a challenge, go for No Damage guns, with reward you with Gold Stars. I believe it may just be an Achievement to complete the No Damage runs, but it is a good amount of fun to add this challenge to every level.


 

[Shaymin]

Can we get the Skype call in account early this time? 
Maybe a Pre-registration of something.

New goal, everyone.  2 Day Podcast everyone.  2... Days...

Where is the Child's Play page link?

It won't go live until the date is nailed down, most likely.

[NWR_Lindy]

Nintendo themselves shouldn't even bother catering to core gamers at this point.  They should stick to two things (that they are basically doing at this point):

1) Their core franchises (Mario, Zelda, etc.)
2) General entertainment games (Brain Age, etc.)

They just don't do Xbox 360/PS3-style "core" games well any more.  I really can't say it any plainer than that...they just don't have a clue in that arena, or don't care enough to do them well.  That's just the way it is, or rather the way it has become.

If they really wanted to go after core gamers they would have built a comprehensive online service (with a low goal of matching the often jumbled mess that is PSN), provided Wii U with a "standard" controller that doesn't shout "games for Wii U will only really suit Wii U" at developers, and in general designed a console that doesn't have goofy hardware catering solely to Nintendo's own software needs for the second generation in a row.

I'm not saying the Wii U won't be great.  I think Nintendo will make great games for it.  I wouldn't expect anything but ports from third parties, though, and I sure as heck wouldn't expect any 360/PS3 gamers to migrate over.  Nintendo just doesn't make the games they like (in terms of exclusives), and it doesn't provide the services they desire.

[Ceric]

Can we get the Skype call in account early this time? 
Maybe a Pre-registration of something.

New goal, everyone.  2 Day Podcast everyone.  2... Days...

Where is the Child's Play page link?

It won't go live until the date is nailed down, most likely.

Its the 19th at noon.  That's in the show notes without the page mentioned by the show.

[Shaymin]

Much more details are on the way, but for now, please mark your calendar for Saturday, November 19th at Noon Eastern.

Key words; For now. They may have to push it back to allow for, among other things, Skyward Sword discussion (Neal's looking for people reviewing the game for other outlets to come on for an hour).

[noname2200]

They just don't do Xbox 360/PS3-style "core" games well any more.  I really can't say it any plainer than that...they just don't have a clue in that arena, or don't care enough to do them well.  That's just the way it is, or rather the way it has become.

Has Nintendo proper every catered to the 360/PS3 style gamer? I'd argue that even in the days of the NES, the forerunners to the 360/PS3 group were being served on Nintendo platforms by third-parties, not Nintendo itself. The only thing I can see that's changed is that Nintendo is no longer the only game in town, while third-parties have come to expect more and more catering by the platform holders, so Nintendo's far weaker efforts to woo third-parties vis-a-vis the competition has led to their current situation.

[roykoopa64]

I was pleased with the Kirby discussion during the mailbag section. Kirby 64 definitely has one of the best and most creative copy-ability systems in place.

I enjoyed the discussion on what Nintendo's reporting of a financial loss really means. I found  the discussion enlightening, because all I've been hearing about is people repeatedly saying 'Nintendo is doomed.'

[oohhboy]

Your touchscreen must be broken or something. The only other explanation is that you have very weak, girly hands.

I found the analysis of Nintendo's current position to be very agreeable in general, I think way too much credit had been given to the currency exchange issue. The real issue is the lack of games as it was correctly stated. It doesn't take a genius to know that if you don't have any product to sell, you don't make any money.

The early launch of the 3DS was suppose to fill this no product gap. It is said "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy", But Nintendo had no plan what so ever, a bad plan is better than no plan. They threw the 3DS on the wall to see whether it would stick. The DS had a weak first year, but at least on paper they had the whole third pillar thing and the GCN was still trucking along.

Throwing out remakes of Zelda and Starfox was a bad idea in terms of opportunity costs. They had to rebuild the art, the levels and effectively code new engines. The only thing they could directly take was the gameplay concepts. No doubt they made money on it, but they would have made far more money had they invested a little more and made new games out of that same effort. I don't know why they expected redressed old games to hold up a system.

Things will no doubt turn around for the 3DS with Mario and Kart 7 coming out. But for at least the past 2 years it really feels like Nintendo has been getting generic business advice from some MBA fresh out of Harvard whose understanding of games is "Product" and all "'Product" are equal. I don't blame Iwata directly, the man is a creative at heart and in the past he had Yamauchi to mentor him. But who ever the hell is giving him advice now needs to get their ass kicked. It wasn't until the last 3 years has Nintendo ever given 2 shits about the stock price, ever. Nintendo needs to stop listening to investors who are simply out to make their money and leave and listen to their customers. No doubt that same MBA quality advice told them to region lock the thing.

Also fire Reggie, the man is so risk adverse he is afraid of his own shadow. When NOE goes out and takes a risk to translate some games, doing all the heavy lifting for you in a time where you need new games on the shelf, it is about as risk free as you can get. It wasn't like NOA was going to bother marketing it and the infrastructure to distribute is already there. Costs would have been so low, the cafeteria budget would have been bigger. It's probably too late now since most people would have imported by now, but that was brain dead move by NOA.

Nintendo is not doomed by any measure right now or the foreseeable future, but has suffered a lot of self inflicted wounds.

[gojira]

I recently played through Arkham City and I think the WiiU controller would actually make a lot of the side quest stuff pretty cool.  It would be interesting if Greg played the game with the WiiU port in mind since for some reason it never occurred to me while I was playing the game.