Topic: Mafia Day Five *SATURN VALLEY*

[Dasmos]

Well I did ask you if it was okay, when I had sent in my request no votes had been cast. It couldn't possibly have affected anything in the game at that stage.

[stevey]

Nearly every mafia Host constantly accepts late role pms and constantly are lengthen the time to send them in if enough people haven't already done so. It's more or less to be expected but annoying.

This is flat out throwing away your rules just to give Khush the win.

[that Baby guy]

Right, so I decided this time to extend how late I'd accept yesterday's day action.  And Khush decided to do his, with full understanding of the rules on how the votes worked.  It turned out it worked, and he was protected from one vote, and stevey lost the vote count.  Fair enough?

[stevey]

You can't do that. Khush made a stupid mistake in assuming about the roles. That happens. It Not Your job and it's unfair to undo the mistakes when he starts crying about it.

I didn't realize I could send anonymous pms just using a player roles. Can I go back to day 1 and tell DaAaman not to block my hit, and change it to khush!

I CALL SHENANIGANS!

[that Baby guy]

Yes you did.  You tried to send one to him the next day.  The rules make it clear that that's a danger the Psychic Prodigy had to face.  EasyCure even made light of it.

However, the vote does say "public," and not "counted."  That's an issue with the wording, plain and simple. I can understand and empathize with that mistake.  Just like I can empathize with missing deadlines.

Not to mention, you wouldn't have a problem with what happened had you been the host :p  I'm only hosting to fill your seat-hole.

Shenanighans yourself for signing up for the game you were supposed to be hosting!

[Khushrenada]

As a host, I don't accept late actions. But I am going to say something that I normally don't like to do and probably won't be accepted well by my teammates. I'm going to argue against myself.

I did have the feeling that Dasmos had used his power against me late today. It would be the most logical choice. Decoyman interpreted the timestamp rule a different way and so did I as evidenced by my post in this thread. However, it was not the fact that I thought Dasmos used his power which caused me to not send in a vote. I'd have still tried anyways. It was because of the cultist. We figured he might misdirect one of our powers so we held on to them. Otherwise, yes. I'd have given it a shot.

However, more than that, i'm willing to stand up and admit that Dasmos vote was cast after mine. Although I never quote it, I respond to his message in the thread. I did so for fun knowing who he was but I'm pretty sure he had cast the vote. I know a lot of people go on and on about how I can't be trusted but if you look at the evidence, I'm actually a pretty honorable guy with the people on my side. Those I'm against, not so much. But it is because of that honor that I'm willing to bring this up. You can trust me when it counts.

It's hard for me to admit this since the truth is, I want the win for Decoyman, a friend, for Vudu, after all the times we've been opposed and for Nickmitch, the only man to trust me this game without much proof. I don't want to ruin it for them. But I don't feel right sitting on what I believe is true. I can handle losing. This game I deserve it. I went in pretty cocky and came out humbled once more. That's good for me.

If you are going to stand by your ruling, let me request one tweak then. Let stevey and myself both die in a tie vote. Like Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty locked in struggle falling down a cliff. Let the others stand victorious without me. I'm not going to cry foul if I lose.

[DAaaMan64]

wow THAT is the tie breaking system?

[Khushrenada]

Finally, and again, I should really stop putting my group in the hole, it would be ironic that the good guys lost because they thought it would be fun to wait until the last moment to vote when they should have gotten down to business and voted right away like the other side did. Alright. That's enough attacking of the ruling. This is just another reason of why to avoid time as the decision maker in mafia game actions. It always seems to cause a contraversy.

[that Baby guy]

On second thought... Dasmos did vote first.  I remember laughing at the fully bolded post, and wondering what I'd do if he edited it.

With that, it's decided.  Bad wins, but barely.  Very barely.  Vudu died from the hit, making it 3-2.

Sorry good.

You can still vote in the poll.  Next time I'll make rules more precise so they can be understood easier, hopefully.

[BeautifulShy]

Wait does this mean that greedy also wins?

[that Baby guy]

Did you vote in the poll?  If so, yes.  It does.

[BeautifulShy]

Since the game is over could you post all of the roles thatguy.

As far as my play I didn't get a chance to really play. I did reserect myself so I guess that protected other bad teammates and it did add another player to the greed side.

[that Baby guy]

Sure, here's a list of the starting roles:

DAaaMan  "Reformed Gangleader"
stevey "Embodiment of Evil"
Khush "Lonely Child"
Dasmos "Proud Child"
decoyman "Psychic Prodigy"
vudu "Child's Companion, Dog"
nickmitch  "Helpless Tagalong"
Maxi "Nosy Neighbor"
EasyCure "Weak Nerd"
Mop_it_up "Attractive, Psychic Royalty/Orphan Royalty"
GoldenPhoenix "Grandfather's Legacy/Chosen One"

[BeautifulShy]

Hmm I got EasyCure's and Nickmitch's roles right. Thought Vudu was couragous.

I would like to say thank you to Dasmos for not listening to me as regards to his ability on Day 3. See I told him to use it on Nickmitch but if I understand what transpired on Day 4 the first vote on the opposing team was the best choice.

[Dasmos]

Arg, now it's a hollow victory for us!

[Khushrenada]

Hmm I got EasyCure's and Nickmitch's roles right. Thought Vudu was couragous.

I would like to say thank you to Dasmos for not listening to me as regards to his ability on Day 3. See I told him to use it on Nickmitch but if I understand what transpired on Day 4 the first vote on the opposing team was the best choice.

Wait. Are you saying Dasmos waited until the first vote was cast to then use his ability?

[Dasmos]

No he told me on Day 3 to use it on nickmitch. I didn't listen and used it on you before any votes had been cast.

[Mop it up]

Why am I not surprised? I kind of figured that Stevey was the Embodiment of Evil, it made the most sense. He took me out on the first day simply because he doesn't like me. I wish I could have told you that Khushrenada.

Anyways, thank you for throwing together this game on such short notice Thatguy. So, uh... who were the winners again?

[vudu]

This whole game was a clusterfuck.  This is why I hate complicated rules.  They leave too many holes, too many one-off situations, and too many interpretations.

The game was fucked on day 2 when thatguy changed the rules so Maxi could come back from the dead.

[decoyman]

Lame. This could've been interpreted either way. Considering the major rule revision that E/G got just because Khush was incredibly good at reading people at the beginning, you think this could've been interepreted the other way this time.

Two points:
1) I don't want to hear the "you should've asked for clarification" because the norm is going by timestamps to determine the "first public vote," so that's what I was going by. Dasmos didn't have to edit his vote to fix whatever was wrong with it.
2) Further, it doesn't say the first "Public Counted Vote," just the first public vote. For all intents and purposes, Khush voted first—others reacted to it and voted after seeing it, giving this point credence. Just because it was rendered void doesn't mean it didn't affect the game.

But you know, I'm over it. It was a fun game with interesting roles, and it was fun to strategize every day. I know it was a lot of work putting it together, and stressful at the end for him, I'm sure, so I wanted to say THANKS to thatguy. I'm no stranger to controversial game endings, as vudu and others know. It sucks and is really discouraging to have a game you worked so hard on end on a sour note, just because of a few missing clarifications in the rules.

Lastly, Khush, don't be so hard on yourself. We were all strategizing together, deciding who we thought was who, and who we'd target with our powers. Heck, it was I who said not to use your power to save yourself that night. That was a huge mistake, given my misreading of the rules – I really thought we had the tiebreak no matter what, even after you suggested you might be blocked by the Puppet. That move of yours at the beginning, knowing Maxi was evil, was really good (too good, as it turned out, haha). So, don't feel bad about it —any of our actions could've won or lost this game. And vudu, your role was able to bring us all together, and your investigations were really useful. Nickmitch, you weren't able to use your role, but you came in and voted with us when needed, which should've been enough.

Heck, I sucked as Psychic. Two out of the three people I contacted died the day they would've received my message (I sent messages to the Psychic Royalty the first night, the dog the second, and the Inventor the third... vudu was the only one who actually received my message because he lived through the night).

Anyways, good game everybody. Wish it would've turned out differently, but that's how it goes sometimes. And thanks again for hosting, thatguy.

[BeautifulShy]

Hmm I got EasyCure's and Nickmitch's roles right. Thought Vudu was couragous.

I would like to say thank you to Dasmos for not listening to me as regards to his ability on Day 3. See I told him to use it on Nickmitch but if I understand what transpired on Day 4 the first vote on the opposing team was the best choice.

Wait. Are you saying Dasmos waited until the first vote was cast to then use his ability?

Think about this Khushrenada. If that had been the case don't you think thatguy would have marked down Dasmos ability to happen on Day 5. Dasmos has to use his ability on Day 3 for it to be in effect on Day 4. There is some foresight to be had when using it.I even told Dasmos that on Day 3 when he asked for a reason for Nickmitch.I didn't have a strong one and told him if he thinks that my suggestion was not a good one that he thinks of one himself.

[Khushrenada]

It was the way you worded it that threw me off.

if I understand what transpired on Day 4 the first vote on the opposing team was the best choice.

You make it sound like he choose whoever had the first vote on Day 4.

[BeautifulShy]

Yeah sorry about that.

I meant that Dasmos had to predict who was going to be the first vote that was on the good team.

I would like to thank Khushrenada for giving me a pep talk on Day 1 after he voted for me he told me not to give up so easily.

[stevey]

Good (pure) played a shitty game and deserves to loss.
1st Khush outright tells me his role on day one. Then he lets it slip that the dog IDed him as good and has teamed up with on day 4. With pm's from decoy basically jest saying he follow the words of people that proves he is good and not any other info it was clear that the lonely Khush's dog was none other than Vudu. Leading to the Evil mafia's victory from my hit on vudu last night. 

Not to mention if the good side didn't fool around like by doing crap like this on the deciding day

I'll be quite honest here. I know you probably won't believe but it's true. I'm not trying to play around or be coy. There's no need for me to lie right now. Here goes:

I didn't send out any messages to sway people to vote with me. Vudu and Nickmitch were always going to vote with me. We've been working together since the start of Day 2. Vudu and Nickmitch were never going to side with you. They just wanted to have fun by waiting to vote until the end of the day. Vudu even said so in a pm to me early this morning. I could send you a copy if you want further proof.

I didn't need to argue anything. I just argued with you at the end of the day to see if I could catch you in a lie.

Thatguy would have seen what was about to happen before the polls giving him time to clarify the roles and Khush time to change his role decision. But NOOO, lets give stevey a nervous break down wondering if the vote will come down to a tie and keep him up all night....

Finally Khush admits,

Congratulations stevey. I had you pegged as a harmless townie. A part of the lunatic fringe. But you are much more than that. You are the Embodiment of Evil. I'm sure I've provided ample entertainment these past two days as I've run all over searching high and low for the evil mastermind of this game. Again, congratulations. By leaving me alone, I left you alon in my suspicions. Unfortunately, with reduced players means less chance to hide and with most roles now known, you are the only odd piece left. But for these past few days, your play has been fantastic. It's time to bring mine back up to that standard.

[BeautifulShy]

I would like to point out that stevey played an excellent game. Only 1 person voted for him before Day 4 and that was GP. I was surprised on the day of the EasyCure vote. Khushrenada even mentioned the GP vote that since she was the Chosen One that should have been a flatout giveaway. thatguy PMed me after I died,which I am not upset over anymore,about the vote and he didn't get it either. 

stevey well played game!