Topic: TALKBACK: NWR Round-Table 3: 500 Copies Sold

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

"But Nintendo does bear the brunt of the blame in creating a console that doesn't...let's say..."serve the interests" of most third-party developers."

I cannot fathom how you could have come to that conclusion. The Wii has the cheapest development costs (as well as being easiest to develop for, I might add), so the developer is more likely to make a net gain on a Nintendo system than any of the competition.

The obvious answer to low sales numbers is the lack of marketing - always has been. This isn't just singling out mature games, it applies to any software whatsoever. When all the information about any given game is fed directly into the internet publications, only forum users know, which as KDR said is such a minute proportion of the potential audience for the game. All the evidence you need is right there... the million sellers had TV adverts slotted in during prime viewing time; the examples given in the feature had no exposure outside of web outlets.
It's nothing to do with Nintendo making it difficult. They just seem to be one of the few companies out there smart enough to know how to create awareness. There's nothing stopping publishers from promoting their titles through television, but they don't. It's their own fault. Simple as.

Yes, I'm aware I am treading similar ground to what's already been mentioned. I just found some of the comments in this particular Round-Table odd, to say the least.

[that Baby guy]

Not to mention, best as I can tell, VGCharts doesn't cover sales of games when they're under 10,000 copies.

Overall, I think Spyborgs sold no copies because there's literally nothing interesting about it.  If you want something like this game, virtually any other game in the genre on any platform allowed for more characters, and had more compelling aesthetics among other things.  Take a look at it and ask if you'd ever even play the game, if it were added to your gaming catalog, at no charge.  For me, honestly, the answer is no, I'd never even touch it.

Capcom could take this in the piracy direction, though.  That would be hilarious.

"Oh yeah, we hopped online and saw about 70,000 people pirating our game.  It's just too easy to pirate on the Wii, we're done with the machine now."

[Crimm]

The retail failure of Spyborgs is not the result of a single factor, the fail level is just too high.

Note: Muramasa came out in the first week on September, Spyborgs came out near the last.  It remains to be seen what happened since those numbers were compiled

[Halbred]

I went out and bought SpyBorgs as soon as I heard the price had dropped. I'm now reviewing it, and from a reviewing perspective...it ain't all that great.

[NWR_pap64]

The retail failure of Spyborgs is not the result of a single factor, the fail level is just too high.

This I agree with.

I think people are trying to pin point someone to blame for a game's failure. You really can't blame the consumer since they have their own issues for buying or not buying something. It can be hard to blame YOURSELF, since you don't really want to admit that you made a mistake. So in a way, its easier to blame the console's company for their failure.

I also agree that Nintendo shouldn't be blamed for a game's performance. Sure, they may have the best selling console worldwide, but just because that's a fact it doesn't guarantee the game will sell. It's almost as if developers are banking on world of mouth and blind buyers to make the game a hit, when the reality is that doing this is just as effective as launching a dart while blindfolded; you either hit your target or miss completely.

If this was the case, then the 360 and PS3 should be blamed when random shooters fail to make a dent in sales, because they are supposed to be the consoles for high end gaming and shooting games.

[Stratos]

This game looks like it might be a lot of fun, comparable to other games in the genre, nice graphics, high production values. On a console with 50,000,000 sold, this game should've sold 50,000 copies by ACCIDENT. I'm serious: 50,000 people (.001% of the Wii userbase) should've picked this game up because they thought it was a different game or maybe just because they thought it would shut their kids up.

If you are a 'clueless-casual-parent' what are you going to buy for your Wii owning child?

A generic beat-em-up? Or something with Mario, Hannah Montana, Mickey Mouse or some other prominent character attached to it. As others have said, the Wii is flooded with tons of games and when a parent has to choose a gift for their child, they will go with something familiar. Plus, if the said generic beat-em-up is not catching their child's attention on television like every other toy/product marketed to children, how will said child know to whine to their 'clueless-casual-parent' for the game?

What do my parents get for my 11-year-old sister when they don't get a chance to ask me first? Mario games. Why? Because half of the non-Mario/Nintendo made games cause her to lose interest after a short while. Mario & Sonic? She still goes back and plays it. Same with Pokemon, Wii Sports, Zelda, Mario Galaxy and Animal Crossing. What non-Nintendo made games have this same effect? Boom Blox and Jungle Speed are pretty much it, though I might be missing one. When parents get burned with crappy shovelware, they withdraw to what they know is safe.

Besides, Spyborgs is a game with an identity complex. Remember it was supposed to be geared towards Adult Swim fans before it had an about-face.

[NWR_pap64]

No, the game was supposed to have a Saturday Morning Cartoon vibe to it. But then fans whined about it, and Capcom went back to change its image.

I honestly believe that had the game retained its more universal, silly image it would have done better business than the sci-fi anime version.

[Smash_Brother]

I'm talking about games with little to no publisher support. How hard to those bomb? 500 copies bomb or what?

And on the subject, how do we explain the sales of the "Carnival Games" series if clueless parents are supposedly prone to only go with what they know is good?

[NWR_pap64]

I'm talking about games with little to no publisher support. How hard to those bomb? 500 copies bomb or what?

And on the subject, how do we explain the sales of the "Carnival Games" series if clueless parents are supposedly prone to only go with what they know is good?

Universal appeal also plays a lot in the purchase decision.

People know carnivals, and they know carnival games. They see the cover and rapidly see the potential, and if its budget priced they will pick it up right away.

And even then, it doesn't always equal success. For example, I have yet to hear sales date from Majesco's Go Play series, which follow the same concepts found in the Wii games, and in other games like Carnival Games. There are many games like Carnival Games and very few is said about THEIR sales, so there's a good chance that Carnival Games got lucky.

See, this is why predicting game sales is hard, because just when you thought something is a guaranteed success it flops, and what you think its a failure ends up becoming a surprise hit.

[Stratos]

And on the subject, how do we explain the sales of the "Carnival Games" series if clueless parents are supposedly prone to only go with what they know is good?

That game has an actual positive buzz floating by word-of-mouth. I've talked with casual gamers and parents of children and this game gets mentioned a lot. People had fun with it. Plus I had multiple store clerks recommend it to me when I was shopping for my sister saying it was a popular title and people reported enjoying it. I asked one GameStop employee about how I hear the game had some broken mechanics and he replied with something to the effect of "most customers don't seem to notice any issues and are enjoying it, if someone likes the game, don't knock it if you haven't tried it".

Remember the title sold slowly and built up to a level that surprised everyone. This is how the 'slow-burn' works. A game has a quiet and fairly mediocre or middle-of-the-road release but as casuals get it, they talk to their friends about it just like the Wii and WiiSports spread among the casuals and it takes off from there. Moms share their thoughts on products for children. So if one Mom found her child likes Carnival Games she will tell her friends who might buy it for their kids.

I've seen it happen with Wii games, I've also watched DDR and Rock Band spread in similar ways. I actually started the DDR revolution with some friends and a lot of parents bought it for my friends after I brought it over for a party night. Before you know it I've traced the games word-of-mouth from me to my friends to my friends' friends until it came back around. My DDR playing spread to over two dozen families and at least half of them were not from me directly showing it to them but from my friends their parents spreading the word -and this was just the ones I found out about, imagine how many I possibly never heard of trying the game.

[King of Twitch]

I just remembered something I posted awhile back:

What is this garbage

Dead Space
The Conduit
Madworld
The Calling

Why won't video game companies take a cue from Rainbow Studios and tell you what the game is about in the title? No one can mistake what Deadly Creatures is about! Or Final Fantasy: Crystal Bearers for that matter. You just know before you buy it that it's going to be a great, and probably very hot game starring Crystal. It makes things so much simpler.

Also mentioned in this thread:
Carnival Games
Dance Dance Revolution
Rock Band

There's no doubt as to what these games are about.

"Spyborgs" too sounds a bit generic so can you blame people for not picking games that sound like pop-alternate-goth band names?

[UltimatePartyBear]

Wait, wait, wait.  Spyborgs is out?

[Stratos]

Wait, wait, wait.  Spyborgs is out?

Apparently the new thing for companies to do is secretly release games and pretend they haven't come out yet.

Spyborgs, Dead Space Extraction and ExciteBots...SURPRISE!

[Halbred]

1) Spyborgs is out.
2) Spyborgs is $20.
3) I'd wait for my review to buy it.
4) One of the attacks just doesn't work.

[BeautifulShy]

I think we should bring back that Weekly release feature if people on here are so unaware that a game is out.

[BlackNMild2k1]

If you bring back the weekly release feature, it should be done on a Monday with all the games that are releasing that week, not all the games that released last week.

[BeautifulShy]

If you bring back the weekly release feature, it should be done on a Monday with all the games that are releasing that week, not all the games that released last week.

Agreed.
Nice signature.

[Peachylala]

Wait, wait, wait.  Spyborgs is out?

Apparently the new thing for companies to do is secretly release games and pretend they haven't come out yet.

Spyborgs, Dead Space Extraction and ExciteBots...SURPRISE!

I knew about Excitebots thanks to the wonderful (and troll ridden) interwebs long before it's release date.

I have to finish unlocking everything in that game. =(

[Luigi Dude]

I'm talking about games with little to no publisher support. How hard to those bomb? 500 copies bomb or what?

Yes, yes they do.  There were games released on the PS2 last gen that sold less then a thousand copies as well.  I remember reading a topic about it either back in 2004 or 2005.  Somebody with NPD data access posted sales numbers for some of the lowest selling games and you had several PS2 games that sold in the hundreds.  I don't remember the names to any of them because they were no name games I never heard of before, but then again, in a year from now Spyborgs is going to be a no name game nobodies ever heard of and forget about as well.

This is why once again, the criticism people do on the Wii is beyond stupid when the same damn things happened with the PS2 last gen.  Spyborgs was a no name game that nobody knew anything about that bombed, just like many no name PS2 games did last gen.  It's failure is comparable to quite a few PS2 games that put up numbers just as bad.

[NWR_pap64]

Luigi Dude is right. Games flop all the time across all systems. The reason people are making a big fuss over this is because the games in question are titles aimed at the core. If Spyborgs was a 360 or PS3 title and it bombed would there be so much discussion?

[BlackNMild2k1]

Exec 1: We don't see this game selling very much since no one even knows that it exist.

Exec 2: That's why we are gonna make commercials and advertise it.

Exec 1: But we don't see the game selling very well, so we don't think we should spend money on advertising.

Exec 2: But if we don't advertise, no one will know about the game and then no on will buy it.

Exec 1: Exactly! .....We don't see it selling very well.

Exec 2: facepalm.jpg

[Mop it up]

What I want to know is, who asked for Dead Space Extraction? Did anyone really want it? Or did they want the original game, or a sequel of the same type, instead of some watered-down spin-off?

I still don't even know what Spyborgs is, but for some reason the title reminds me of that one game with the spinning tops that do battle of which I can't recall the name.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

Luigi Dude is right. Games flop all the time across all systems. The reason people are making a big fuss over this is because the games in question are titles aimed at the core. If Spyborgs was a 360 or PS3 title and it bombed would there be so much discussion?

Exactly. Precisely the point. Issues that are consistent across all consoles always get more vocal coverage when discussing the Nintendo platforms rather than others. Shovelware, for example. That exists quite extensively on Xbox 360 and PS3 as well, but you don't hear about it ever. Why? People ignore those portions of the software libraries because there's no point in speaking about them. In relation to the Wii, it is brought up regularly when there is no need. Same goes with this low sales talk.

We have to bear in mind, with the costs of game development being lower, devs can be profitable with significantly lower sales on Wii and DS. On face value, some of these common five-digit sales numbers may appear to be relatively unimpressive, but there's a good chance the dev made all the expended money back and then some. Whereas on the HD systems, the same amount of sales would usually indicate a monetary loss. What I'm saying is that sometimes, these 'low' sales figures might not be as bad as it initially seems because the makers still frequently do well financially from it.

[NWR_Neal]

If you bring back the weekly release feature, it should be done on a Monday with all the games that are releasing that week, not all the games that released last week.

As the creator of the weekly release article and a proponent of it, it's pretty damn near impossible to do it on a consistent basis and make it look as nice and pretty as it was. I'd love to see it come back, but especially during the fall, it's too much of a chore to work on when there's a bajillion games coming out.

I had a reason for doing the release article how I did it. Last fall, I would listen to podcasts going over game releases and look at other site's articles about game releases, and I remember that Tecmo Bowl Kickoff was talked about for three weeks in a row. These people went over releases before a game was officially out. So, to make sure that our weekly release article was accurate, I planned to have it release mid-week.

On that note, if someone has any game-winning ideas of how to do a weekly release article where it isn't such a drain on the staff, PM me. Hell, if you guys want to help out in any way, shape, or form, I'd be all for that.

[Stratos]

What I want to know is, who asked for Dead Space Extraction? Did anyone really want it? Or did they want the original game, or a sequel of the same type, instead of some watered-down spin-off?

Remember the huge debacle in the Dead Space thread about this game? No one appeared to be terribly happy with it being 'yet another on rails shooter' when we were hopping for much more.

On that note, if someone has any game-winning ideas of how to do a weekly release article where it isn't such a drain on the staff, PM me. Hell, if you guys want to help out in any way, shape, or form, I'd be all for that.

We could start a thread that is updated with new releases every week, similar to TJ Spyke's VC/WW release thread.