Topic: Zelda Using Motion Sensor for Sword!

[JonLeung]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
Spin slashes were actually done in the E3 demo using motion sensing.  You basically flicked your wrist around in a fast circle.  It was the same motion used to make Mario spin in Galaxy.

I figured it would be like that.  I doubt many games would actually require large motions.

(Thank you for reminding me that I was actually at E3 and didn't line up to play Twilight Princess.  ;_;  Some Zelda fan I am, eh?)

[GoldenPhoenix]

I am not sure what to think about this new revelation, I will still be getting Zelda TP for Wii at launch so I guess it really doesn't matter . But this is one of those things I'll have to trust Nintendo and wait until I can get my hands on it before making any kind of judgement.  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

One must decide to believe if Nintendo is providing practice and setting you up for a future title, or are they wasting effort and ideas on a last-gen title?

Would a future, dedicated Wii-Zelda be so fresh and exciting after the fact?

[Ian Sane]

"Well another concern now is that the game simply isn't good enough to stand on its own, they have to add all these sparkling innovation features in to try and mask the mediocrity. Let's hope that's not the case, but all signs point to this being the biggest disappointment of all time and the worst Zelda game ever."

I'm quite confident the game is good enough to stand on its own.  Afterall it has been in development for quite a while and the original design didn't call for any Wii usage.  I think in terms of dungeon design and stuff like that the game is going to be brilliant.

If this exposes any weaknesses it is in the controller itself.  From day one I have doubted the remote's ability to replace a traditional controller and in my mind this whole Zelda thing is going to prove that.  All these changes that have come up recently regarding the control scheme suggest to me that Nintendo is scrambling.  They want to prove that the remote is better and want to use a major game like Zelda to do so.  But they probably can't because it just isn't possible.  They're trying everything they can but it probably isn't going to work.  TP is still going to kick ass.  It'll probably just depend on what version you're playing.

[Ceric]

Both will be great.  Though I would say they probably should have left Zelda alone and focussed on Metroid.  Though then people be mad that they have a great new Gamecube game to play on their new Wii.

[Pale]

Man Ian, you had me agreeing with you up until those last couple sentences where you seem to assume the Wii version will suck.

Nintendo is betting that the Wii controller is better and they are trying to prove it to us.  Why can't you all leave it at that until you play it?  Jesus.

Nintendo is basically coming out and saying look, we are making our best game both ways.  They know that if people like the cube version more, they are most likely not going to buy a Wii.  That is how much is riding on everyone liking the Wii version.

Everyone stop yer bitching, sit back, and take part in the experiment Nintendo is presenting to us.  Play both versions.  If you actually like the Cube version more AFTER playing them both, then Nintendo loses.  Your assumptions and boy cott cry babying just makes you look stupid.

[Strell]

I'll be buying both versions.

Once a solid release date comes out, if there's no collector's editions coming (even though God himself - Reggie - said there'd be), I'll be reserving both.

Which leaves enough credit for a DS game.  So it's down to something like...Starfox or Contact or something.

[Ceric]

I just got a Gamefly account just for this reason, that and I wanted to play Pheonix Wright, Sonic Rush, Cube games I don't own, though first I have to beat BG&E so I can get it back to Vudu.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
Man Ian, you had me agreeing with you up until those last couple sentences where you seem to assume the Wii version will suck.

Nintendo is betting that the Wii controller is better and they are trying to prove it to us.  Why can't you all leave it at that until you play it?  Jesus.

Nintendo is basically coming out and saying look, we are making our best game both ways.  They know that if people like the cube version more, they are most likely not going to buy a Wii.  That is how much is riding on everyone liking the Wii version.

Everyone stop yer bitching, sit back, and take part in the experiment Nintendo is presenting to us.  Play both versions.  If you actually like the Cube version more AFTER playing them both, then Nintendo loses.  Your assumptions and boy cott cry babying just makes you look stupid.

::claps and cheers for Pale::

[thejeek]

Arrgh! You're gonna have to move your hands to play a video game. Horrors! The world will end! Think of the tens of calories you'll burn in a day - you'll probably die...

My god, get a GRIP people! What's the point of having a motion sensitive controller if you're not prepared to MOVE IT!!!!!

My take - Zelda TP is actually starting to look like it might have a novel and interesting game play element as a opposed to just being a rather generic looking sword and sorcery pot-boiler with questionable art direction...

[Ceric]

Have you seen me I could use those ten calories...  Next you'll tell me to go to the domain of the Fury Orb that other people so much enjoy.  Pot-Boiler...  I wonder if it can make dumplings? (We all know the Wii will make Waffles.)

[Strell]

I'm just going to have to copy what I said over at CAG here...

I think what Nintendo needs to do is grow some balls and tell everyone to piss the hell off when they are playing the Wii version, by taking a page from the old FPS games of yore, such as Duke Nukem 3D, Wolfenstein, and Rise of the Triad.  In these games, you chose your difficulty based on normally-demoralizing messages that indicated just how hard you wanted the game.

So if you were a total badass, you chose "They call me the cleaner" or "BRING 'EM ON."  If you were a total pussy, you chose "Mommy I'm scared!" or "I can only play with the lights on!"

Before you start the game, you'll go to a screen, and it will ask you what interface mode you want to be.  

If you chose normal controls, it says "Help I'm Jigglypuff's fat cousin."  If you chose a hybrid of sorts (maybe you just cut out sword motion, opting only for buttons for attacks), you chose "I'm only 50% pussy."  If you choose the full motion one, it's "I am Zatoichi.....bitches."

That'd show'em.  Who the f*ck doesn't want to be Zatoichi?

Apparently pussies and jigglypuff cousins....bitches.

In fact, Reggie's digitized head should float on the screen when you are chosing your interface, and hopelessly remind you that he could slap you with his dick at any second if he really wanted, because he knows where you sleep, bitch.

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
I'm just going to have to copy what I said over at CAG here...

I think what Nintendo needs to do is grow some balls and tell everyone to piss the hell off when they are playing the Wii version, by taking a page from the old FPS games of yore, such as Duke Nukem 3D, Wolfenstein, and Rise of the Triad.  In these games, you chose your difficulty based on normally-demoralizing messages that indicated just how hard you wanted the game.

So if you were a total badass, you chose "They call me the cleaner" or "BRING 'EM ON."  If you were a total pussy, you chose "Mommy I'm scared!" or "I can only play with the lights on!"

Before you start the game, you'll go to a screen, and it will ask you what interface mode you want to be.  

If you chose normal controls, it says "Help I'm Jigglypuff's fat cousin."  If you chose a hybrid of sorts (maybe you just cut out sword motion, opting only for buttons for attacks), you chose "I'm only 50% pussy."  If you choose the full motion one, it's "I am Zatoichi.....bitches."

That'd show'em.  Who the f*ck doesn't want to be Zatoichi?

Apparently pussies and jigglypuff cousins....bitches.

In fact, Reggie's digitized head should float on the screen when you are chosing your interface, and hopelessly remind you that he could slap you with his dick at any second if he really wanted, because he knows where you sleep, bitch.

...and its that long.

[ShyGuy]

There is only one way to solve this. Nintendo needs to implement online deathmatches into TP, with cross platform playability between the GC and Wii versions.

That way a Wavebird user could battle a Wiimote user and then we'd see which control scheme was best, you female dogs  

[thejeek]

Quote
Have you seen me I could use those ten calories...

Fair enough - I think I can probably give you an exemption. Anyway - what with the dumplings + waffles on tap, we'll be able to recover any lost energy without getting up from the couch.

Seriously though - everything we've heard so far suggests you can make small gestures and still have the wiimote understand what you're doing and I can't believe it'll be any more unpleasant than getting thumb cramp + RSI from clutching a regular controller in a death grip for twelve hours a stretch!

[Strell]

Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
There is only one way to solve this. Nintendo needs to implement online deathmatches into TP, with cross platform playability between the GC and Wii versions.

That way a Wavebird user could battle a Wiimote user and then we'd see who was best, bitches

I had to fix that.

There will be none of that around here.

[BigJim]

It is not about "OMG I have to move, they should have a water bottle and straw attachment." Anyone that thinks motion in itself is the concern is a moron.

It's the concern of an adventure game losing some of it's adventure and puzzle solving focus, and possibly giving more attention than what's warranted to sword slashing.

(And before someone jumps on the comment, I didn't say ALL attention is lost on puzzles. And I didn't say Zelda will become a slasher game either.)

What the final result will be, none of us know yet. I'm undecided on which way I want to play, but I do know there was nothing wrong with Zelda's control scheme that REQUIRES a Wii.  Zelda Wii will demonstrate whether the Wiimote is for real or a g!mmick, either way.

Wii would not be getting nearly as much attention were it not for the controller. If it was a standard definition version of the 360 with a standard controller, they'd be cooked. Gamers don't need this controller as much as Nintendo does.

There is a lot riding on it and I'm sure they're aware of that. I am hopeful, but not sold wholesale on the concept. If Nintendo's tour was coming anywhere near me, I'd try it out for myself. But such is life.  

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
It is not about "OMG I have to move, they should have a water bottle and straw attachment."

You know I did need something to drink with my Waffles and Dumplings.

Thats being said you have a valid concern and I have to agree.  Also, Do we know where there tour is going that actually has the playable Wii?

[thejeek]

Quote

It is not about "OMG I have to move, they should have a water bottle and straw attachment." Anyone that thinks motion in itself is the concern is a moron.

It's the concern of an adventure game losing some of it's adventure and puzzle solving focus, and possibly giving more attention than what's warranted to sword slashing.

OK - but what if the immersion is improved as a result of the control method - and what if the puzzle solving involves more direct-interaction via the remote? Would that not be a good thing?

Quote

Wii would not be getting nearly as much attention were it not for the controller. If Wii was a standard definition version of the 360 with a standard controller, they'd be cooked. Gamers don't need this controller as much as Nintendo does.

There is a lot riding on it and I'm sure they're aware of that. I am hopeful, but not sold wholesale on the concept. If Nintendo's tour was coming anywhere near me, I'd try it out for myself. But such is life.

Agreed, and I think at this stage having a high-profile game like Zelda appear not to take full advantage of the controller could be quite damaging to the Wii's prospects - it's the sort of thing that people will go to town on. On the other hand, I guess pissing off long term fans with an unpopular control scheme won't do them any favours either (although MP rode that out in the end)



 

[Pale]

Big Jim, I have to disagree.  If anything i think this will take the gameplay away from sword fighting.  It's similar to what was in Phantom Hourglass.  The stylus controls make sword fighting a bit clunky there, but in the boss fight in the demo you never used your sword.

[BigJim]

Quote
OK - but what if the immersion is improved as a result of the control method - and what if the puzzle solving involves more direct-interaction via the remote? Would that not be a good thing?

Sure. I'm not rejecting the Wiimote. I'm just saying what we have in Zelda is solid. The Wiimote scheme remains to be seen, either way. Could be great, could be not so great. It might be indifferent. We'll see.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

FORMER NINTENDO FANS ARE GO!

[stevey]

"The game has just been made 100 times more complicated for nothing."

for nothing no, for it to be a million time more funner! Now you can full act out all your dream of brutally killing tingle, cutting off ganon head for massive damage, and stabbing zelda in the face for making you have to save her for the 100th time! This Zelda is going to be the Greatest Everything Ever!!!!

[nemo_83]

 "Upon actually playing it, it's more interesting this way," said Miyamoto to Nintendo Dream about the new control scheme.



YES! bwahahahahaha...ha...ha

I love it.  Let us hope the controls are one to one.  Now the Wii version can truly be called a launch title.


I have said in the past, when they do this (use the Wii remote for sword controls) it will be as big of a shock to some as Celda was.  Change can be good.

I would have thought though that it was too late to make such a massive change to the controls of the game; I would have thought after E3 we would not get a Zelda that puts the remote to its most logical use for two to three years (whenever the next Zelda comes out).  It will be a challenge to make such a complex game as TP work with the remote but it can be done (I think targetting just became very important).  It definately would have been easier to just build a Zelda from the ground up using the remote (allowing much more of the game to be focused on sword interaction with the environment and puzzles).

Keep in mind that the first Legend of Zelda was quite simple.  You had a button for your secondary weapon, a button for your sword, and a dpad to point you in the right direction.  The Wii controls can take us back to that simplicity.  A button to draw the sword to use the remote for sword attacks, a few buttons to use secondary weapons with the remote, a stick to move the character, a button for locking on, etc.  Why waste the remote function on shield attacks and menu navigation?

One should be able to look at the remote and look at the game on screen just like with Tennis and know exactly what to do.  They have to make this game with free form controls so they can be true to their thesis of making games that anyone will want to play.  If you just give players a sword and a world like Zelda to play in with it, I think you will be surprised how much fun people who would never play a game would have just cutting grass.

[mantidor]

Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
"Upon actually playing it, it's more interesting this way," said Miyamoto to Nintendo Dream about the new control scheme.



YES! bwahahahahaha...ha...ha

I love it.  Let us hope the controls are one to one.  Now the Wii version can truly be called a launch title.

well, duh, he isn't going to say "the GC controls are superior and the only reason we are doing this is to help the launch of our console because we have enough fanboys that would even buy a turd if it has Zelda somewhere written over it", even if thats the truth

This was basically the only thing I liked about TP wii version and now they changed it, I don't have any doubts about which one is going to be the best version now.