First off I would just like to say to all of you who hate "advanced" techniques; you are silly if you think some new techniques will not rise from the ashes, and may in fact hurt the game even more then those fixed from Melee.
Secondly:
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Regardless I think the point is that a game exploit is just that something that wasn't intended to be there by the designer, if people were truly good at the game they would do it within the confines of the game design, imo, it taints that person's skill. It is like PC gaming and people that hack their game to give them an advantage, that is exploiting and yes it is cheating the system. Heck what if someone found some goofy debug code threw button combinations that gave them an advantage that wasn't intended to remain in the game, would that person be justified in using it?
So you are comparing outside interference (a cheat device or a script) to using the game's engine, whether "as intended" or not? The debug menu code is kind of a gray area, but if you use that you really are not inside the game's engine anymore; it is more like a combination of a self engine and the game's engine combined at that point, and you could just choose not to play with those people that use it, and really, if something is that game breaking then usually the company has a recall like Sega with PSO and SNK with Card Fighters DS. Your argument based around the idea of "play it how it was intended" is really faulty, because who is deciding intent here? Clearly though the developers are the ones who's intent count, and if a game has some exploit ,code , or bug that they feels breaks the game enough to fix it they have avenues through which they can show it.
The first avenue is a quite upgrade, like what was done with Melee; did you know that Melee has been updated at least twice since it's release? Go get your SSBM disc and look at the bar code that is close to being along the inside edge on the bottom; there should be some alpha-numeric characters along with the bar code that read something like: DOL- GALE - 0 - 02. those last two digits are the version number; the first version was 00, the second was 01, and the most recent to my knowledge is 02 and it was the Player's Choice re-release. Some of the things that were changed include some properties being changed with the Home Run Bat (I think while it is being thrown) and the fact that Jigglypuff no longer automatically KOs when her shield breaks.
The second, and most effective Avenue is a loud upgrade, much like what SEGA did in Japan with PSO for the GCN, which basically forces everyone to upgrade or lose functionality (online).
The third and final, but least effective avenue is a public show of displeasure, which does not stop anyone from using the exploit, code, or bug, but it still makes everyone know that they are not playing the game as intended by the developers.
The fact that the Developers have already quietly upgraded the game twice without fixing things like wave dashing and L-canceling, or saying anything in public to the effect that they disapprove of the use of such techniques shows that they do not care about those techniques, which to me says that their intent is that those are part of the game.
If a 03 version of SSBM has ever came out and "techniques" were fixed and Competitive Smash players knew about it yet continued to use the older versions so they could use the techniques then, in my opinion, they are wrong because they are going against the intent of the developers.
All of that is moot however because SSBB has removed a lot of "Advanced" techniques, thus proclaiming the intent of the developers, but since I know of no version of SSBM that removes the techniques and no one on the dev team, to my knowledge, has ever spoke out on the use of the techniques in SSBM, I still see the use of "advanced" techniques as legal in Melee.
NOTE: I DO NOT USE SO CALLED ADVANCED TECHNIQUES IN SSBM, MAINLY BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE ANY REAL USE FOR THEM.
Thirdly:
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I don't like that argument...If you take two people of equal skill, and give one of them the ability to have a split-second advantage, the playing field is no longer fair...
It's like the idea of snaking in Mario Kart...If you take two players of equal skill, the one who snakes will ALWAYS win...ALWAYS...
You could also say that you could take two players of equal skill, the one who drives the straightest line will always win, or you could say that the one who takes non-obvious shortcuts, like cutting across grass, will always win. I see nothing official or have heard nothing official that tells me to use either of those two strategies in Mario Kart, so would they be playing the game not-as-intended? What if I hit the jump button or brake for no reason, or I have just randomly thrown a green shell into a lake without the intent of hitting someone else with it, am I still playing the game as intended?
Power slides, and the boosts that one can gain from using them, are meant to aid one when they are turning; I turn on strait-a-ways, thus qualifying me for a power slide, and the boost that I can get from one, you do not, and besides what is the spirit of Mario Kart anyway; trying to get first place in a moter race where you can use items, that is what I think it is anyways.
And your fairness argument is dangerously ideologically close to Smash Tourny player's who say that the tourney rules make the game fair. Can everyone learn to snake; if so can everyone choose to snake? Those questions about sums up my view of fairness.
And before anyone gets on me about how I feel about the SSBM tourney rules I am just going to say that while I may have used the term "intended" in respects to the dev team in my arguments against the tourney rules my mind may have changed since the writing of the post in which it may be found. I will say that further thought on the intent of the developers in the writing of this post has caused me to come to some deeper meanings that I was not aware of during the writing of other posts. I am not even sure why I am writing this because I am not sure I have ever even used the argument of Developers intent within the scope of the SSBM tourney rules, but It does sound like something I may have used with out thinking completly about what I was saying.
Wow, was that complete covering-my-own-ass material or what? I should run for public office.
Fourth and finally, I would just like to know if everyone just "tl;dr"ed my last post in this topic, because , not to toot my own horn, I thought that it was a very criticism worthy post with some thought provoking material, or does everyone just hate me and ignore everything I say (It is just like middle school all over again!!!
).
Topic: Delicious tourney*** tears are my drink of choice tonight (Read 38078 times)
