Topic: The Counter-Mainstream Mainstream

[joeamis]

Ya this has always been a major highschool thing, and a little in junior high too as well as college.  Most people grow out of it, some never do.  This same thing happens in the videogame industry too.  Some people hate mainstream games and say they're complete sh1t but then go and buy other games for another system that are also mainstream.  And it happens on both sides (both console owners).  Those who claim Sony/MS is crap, and throw all their money at the 1st party Nintendo games (which are also mainstream).  Or those who claim Nintendo is kiddy and throw all their money at Sony or MS.  And then the EA bashers, who go and buy sports titles by other companies.  If a person truly wants to be a nonconformist gamer, they have to be themselves like Bill said.  In a game sense, meaning, buy any games you think you might enjoy, no matter what company makes it.  And just incase anyone wants to sound off because of what i said, yes Nintendo games are mainstream.  

[KnowsNothing]

I agreee with the whole "I didn't read one bit of this thread except for the two sentances of your essay and a few random posts here and there" thing.

But I've noticed the counter-mainstream mainstream thing alot, too.  I actualyl have alot to say about this subject, but I'm sure that in this thread it has been mentioned before.  And it's probably been put into more complex sentances with fancy 2 dollar words, too.

The best thing you can do is to be yourself.  If you get caught up with being mainstream to become popular, and then something like the counter-mainstream mainstream thing comes up you'll be going back and forth between styles and personalities, and none of that will be really you.  So yeah, what Bill said.

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The group I personally dislike nowadays(nothing personal!) are the "skating crowd"...You know, those that skateboard whether they are good or not, listen to heavy metal bands like Korn, etc.[/Q}

Heh, people used to think I was a skater like that becasue I always wore baggy pants and a sweatshirt I wore a sweatshirt almost everyday last year.  During shcool, there were probably only 10 days where I didn't wear one :cool:.  Anyway, one thing that bothered me about this quote is this:

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You know, those that skateboard whether they are good or not..

Arent we all bad at knew things at first?  Practice makes perfect.

Everything about this post sums up my entire contribution to PGC.  

[Bill Aurion]

Yeah well there were kids in my high school that skated just because their friends were doing it, etc...

[Hostile Creation]

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I do want to point out that it doesn't matter if you do shop at places like Hot Topic, it doesn't mean you're part of the anti-mainstream mainstream, just so long as you're buying their products because you like them, not because you're not trying to protest the system, or whatever. I personally have quite a few shirts from Hot Topic, mainly videogame and band t-shirts

I think murk put it well, actually.
Don't get anything from Hot Topic unless you're stealing it.

And really, we do occasionally buy things from there (not sure if I ever had, but I have seen a few things that interested me), but my one friend insists upon it.  He did again, just tonight.  We were like EWW.
That's when murk said that.

[joeamis]

I don't find that surprising.  Generally friends start to do things that their friends do, that way they continue to have the same interests and stay closer.

[mouse_clicker]

I don't see the problem in buying things from Hot Topic- there shouldn't be some backlash against the store simply because it serves as the headquarters for the anti-mainstream mainstream. I have a lot of shirts I really like from there- I have a Less Than Jake shirt, an At the Drive-In shirt, a Clash shirt, an Ataris shirt, a shirt with the Konami code, a Nintendo Power Player shirt with Mario on it, and a Home Movies shirt. I love them all, and I wear them because I love them. I can understand the sentiment that Hot Topic's style isn't yours- Aeropostale and American Eagle aren't mine- but that doesn't mean the store is bad.

[Hostile Creation]

I did say they have cool stuff.  The Clash is great, and those other bands are good, too.
Nintendo shirts are cool, though I'd probably never own one for reasons I can't really explain.  At least not any of the ones I've seen.
Let's say I have pride in liking Nintendo, and none of the t-shirts do them justice.  That's not quite it, but it's an aspect thereof.

And Hot Topic is also severely overpriced.  Or it may just be me that thinks t-shirts for more than fifteen dollars is load of crap, cuz they seem to be like that everywhere.
But the DVD of Invader Zim, which I almost bought, was five dollars more than at Wal-mart.
Therefore, the steal rather than borrow method.
Or get the merchandise elsewhere, probably even for cheaper.
Got nothing against Hot Topic, I've just got something against the combination of Hot Topic and myself for some reason

[Mario]

Yeah well, you guys are all Counter Counter-Mainstream-Mainstream.

I think most people who are sheep subconciously realise it, but they don't do anything to get out of it because they have nowhere else to go and nothing else to fit in with, it takes people time to find out who they are, this is just part of the process... or something.

[KDR_11k]

(Hot Topic doesn't exist here, but people still get the stuff they need to look all alike)

There are a few products I refuse to buy on the basis of the company that made it. The XBox would be one of those (Microsoft hates our freedoms), as are RIAA and MPAA (also a bunch of freedom hating capitalists). That's not to show something to others, that's merely in the hope that these companies suffer if enough people do that.

[mouse_clicker]

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The XBox would be one of those (Microsoft hates our freedoms), as are RIAA and MPAA (also a bunch of freedom hating capitalists).

Neh, I never let political views keep me from buying products- I don't buy an XBox because it doesn't have enough games I'm interested in to warrant a purchase. I don't buy a lot of CD's because most aren't any good and the ones that are are generally too expensive. I'm not sure what your beef is with the MPAA is, though.

[Infernal Monkey]

I'm so angry at mainstream culture, I turned my toaster into a video game system. The aim of the game is to set it on three, medium brown. Alright, what do I win? ANOTHER BEER!

Really though, hyper anti-mainstreamers are morons. I HATE IT JUST BECAUSE IT'S ON TV. =\

[KDR_11k]

Infernal: Yes, but can it run Linux?

mouse: Well, for one thing we have to thank the MPAA for things like the DMCA and copycat legislation in other countries.

[mouse_clicker]

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mouse: Well, for one thing we have to thank the MPAA for things like the DMCA and copycat legislation in other countries.

Ah yes, I forgot about that, very good point. It's still not going to stop me from going to the movie theater or buying tons of movies, though- in my world of geekiness, movies play second fiddle only to LotR and videogames.

Seriously, though, I hope the feeling you get from protesting these groups is greater than the enjoyment you would get from their products. I respect the message you're trying to get across, but I personally don't let that keep me from indulging in their products. At least not that alone.

[Berny]

I actually saw a movie (sort of) on this topic in theology of all classes last year. (Seems to me like maybe an economics kinda movie, but my teacher was....odd.) It was called Merchants of Cool and it focused a lot on MTV cool culture, but it did go a little into this new anti-pop/nonconformist subculture. The movie's all about how advertizing agencies will do anything to stay on top of their market and look cool and how they try to predict what will be cool next. As soon as the non-conformist movement started, someone tried to market it and Hot Topic was born. But like mouse said, that doesn't make it a bad place to buy clothes. They sell Invader Zim shirts and me want.

[mouse_clicker]

I just wanted to point out that I think I'm wrong about The GAP owning Hot Topic. I just went and did a lot of research myself and I'm fairly certain now that I'm wrong, that The GAP does not own Hot Topic, at least not wholly. I looked through The GAP's 2003 annual report and found absolutely no mention of Hot Topic, although I did find information on Old Navy and Banana Republic, both of whom readily admit to sharing GAP, inc. as their parent company. More importantly, though, Hot Topic is public and can be traded on the stock market, complete with their own symbol (HOTT, under NASDAQ)- correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is a sign that Hot Topic, inc. (as they're called) is independant. The GAP, or some other store, such as Abercrombie and Fitch, may own a large portion of their shares, but I'm fairly certain at this point that Hot Topic is indeed independant.  

::EDIT:: I'm looking through Hot Topic's annual report now, and it appears that THEY own another company, Torrid, a store selling plus sized clothes for women. In fact, it says in their annual report that they compete with The GAP, as well as other stores, such as American Eagle, Abercrombie & Fitch, Aeropostale, etc:

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The Company competes with other retailers for vendors, customers,
suitable retail locations and qualified associates. Hot Topic currently competes
with street alternative and vintage clothing stores located primarily in
metropolitan areas and with other mall-based teenage-focused retailers such as
Abercrombie & Fitch, Aeropostale, American Eagle Outfitters, Anchor Blue
(Millers Outpost), Charlotte Russe Inc., Claire's Stores, Inc., Forever 21, Old
Navy (a division of Gap Inc.), Pacific Sunwear of California, Inc., Spencer
Gifts, Inc., The Buckle, The Wet Seal, Inc., Urban Outfitters, Inc.; and, to a
lesser extent, with music stores.

If anyone would like to see this information themselves, here is their Investor Relations site.

In any case, I know how this rumor started- the current president of Hot Topic, inc., Gerald cook, once held a management position at The GAP. I guess people misconstrued this information to mean The GAP owns Hot Topic, which isn't true.

[Hostile Creation]

I find it absolutely hilarious that Hot Topic owns a store that sells clothing for obese women.

[ThePerm]

i have no idea what the brand of clothes i wear are lol...

[KDR_11k]

Mouse: But then Microsoft owns Apple, so...

[mouse_clicker]

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Mouse: But then Microsoft owns Apple, so...

Microsoft owns shares in Apple but they don't own Apple completely. Apple also makes many products that transcend their competed area with Microsoft.