Author Topic: ARMS  (Read 24771 times)

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Offline Oedo

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2017, 10:56:23 PM »
ARMS invitational tournament in Japan with Street Fighter legend Momochi, and Smash 4 players Dabuz and Abadango:


(Matches start around the 40 minute mark)

Watching some of this is the first time I've been interested in ARMS in more than an "I should keep an open mind" type of way. Nintendo need more events like this prior to launch if they want to effectively market this as a real "eSports" game. The Treehouse folks are great, and I like watching them demo the basics of upcoming Nintendo games and share tidbits about their development, but it's clear from watching this that Nintendo needs to put ARMS in the hands of professional fighting game players (who approach these games with a totally different mindset) to really showcase the depth that might be in this game.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2017, 07:43:09 PM »
The video kind of shows off the unfortunate side of the demo roster, which is that Ninjara dominates against all other characters except Ribbon Girl in some circumstances.

Mechanica has hovering, at least, and I'm still on the fence on whether or not that's a good thing. But Master Mummy's abilities are absolutely terrible. He still takes damage despite his super armor, and he only regains 10HP per 3 seconds or so, which is not going to make up losses. Ninjara, on the other hand, is able to do precise dodges that make him invulnerable to attacks. Add the fact that he has generally decent speed and that those dodges seem relatively easy to do, and you have a standout character.

Hoping that Min Min's abilities can act as a hard counter, or that we see some sort of balancing effect come into play as other characters are introduced.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2017, 03:35:43 PM »
I'm sorry, do you want to discuss how disappointing Nintendo is? Because I want to discuss ARMS.
https://youtu.be/X2Wzy4p-v2c

A new character, or rather, previously noticed character, has been officially been announced! Helix's reveal trailer actually gives us a whole lot more to chew on. Not only does he have an astounding amount of- excuse the pun- flexibility, but he also shows off a few absolutely awesome ARMS. There's the dragon ARMS in ice form, but we also see some new bouncy arms, which I assume will have two hotboxes or chances to curve. Either way, they move strangely, and it makes sense to show them off with Helix. The most delightful new ARMS on display, however, are those shield arms! They extend, and then expand and hang in mid-air. They even take on an elemental property, which means they act as mobile shields that can negatively impact a player should they choose to attack. That is awesome.

Let's not forget Helix himself, whose gimmick seems to revolve around height changing. While I'm not entirely sure what the advantage of extending to maximum height brings (maybe it does thin him out and make him harder to hit, as evidenced by the trailer?), but the ability to shrink under incoming attacks looks particularly effective. I am wondering how these height shifts are executed with motion controls, however. With Min Min, her special abilities activate by using standard inputs, so maybe blocking and jumping cause Helix to shrink and extend, respectively? No matter the method, I'm becoming increasingly impressed by the amount of thought and variation going into these alternate characters, but it also makes me question the original five characters even more. Ribbon Girl and Ninjara still seem unique, but Master Mummy and Mechaninca's abilities pale in comparison with newer characters like Min Min and Helix.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 05:44:44 PM by Evan_B »
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Offline Soren

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2017, 04:27:07 PM »
Those videos do nothing for me. I'm intrigued by ARMS but without any hands-on time with the game I still feel pretty skeptical about it.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2017, 05:04:32 PM »
Oh, don't be such a buzzkill.
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Offline Phil

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2017, 05:37:08 PM »
Those videos do nothing for me. I'm intrigued by ARMS but without any hands-on time with the game I still feel pretty skeptical about it.

What about the hands-on time of others? Most players have found it to be really awesome. Evan, dig up some impressions. I'm not doing any work. This isn't my topic.  ;)
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2017, 05:39:59 PM »
Yo the new character Helix looks awesome, I starting to come around to Arms, maybe a demo would help convince people.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2017, 10:37:29 PM »
I also believe this game needs a demo. I'd love to play it with someone before buying.
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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2017, 12:26:50 AM »
There really should be a demo. I think the Testfire events were a big part of selling a lot of people on Splatoon, and that game was a much more traditional type of thing as a team-based first person shooter. This game is hard to wrap your head around, and I feel like letting people try it will go a long way toward making it easy to understand.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2017, 09:40:23 AM »
Yeah, it looks like there's a lot more nuance to the game on the surface than most fighters. Like, button mashing is in no way a strategy here.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2017, 02:24:00 PM »
For those who care, there was an ARMS tournament in Japan, which showed off some really fantastic gameplay and pretty much changed my opinion of Master Mummy (but not Mechanica). Its a four hour stream, although the first match begins around minute 32.

The fact that the normal favorite, Ninjara, received stiff competition from Min Min and Master Mummy, shows that this game has really solid mechanics and interesting combinations. There's some fantastic Helix gameplay at the start that shows how terrifying both he and the Dragon ARMS can be, and some great examples of how stages can factor into interesting gameplay choices. I am hoping that the full game allows players to pick or vote for stages, as the combination of ARMS, characters, and stages makes for a very interesting meta.

But I should mention Master Mummy! I completely underestimated that healing ability of his, and I was delighted to see how effectively players used it and his arsenal of ARMS. The revolvers are absolutely deadly in his hands and it's no surprise that a double-revolver player was the winner of the tournament. I think that the combination of his healing and super armor means you have to play extremely aggressive and grab-oriented against him, and while Mechanica has really similar properties, the negative part of her play style is that she only has super armor in the air, and cannot air dodge while hovering. The low amount of players using her makes me think she's not going to be popular.

Here's the video, in case anyone is interested. Also, blah blah no demo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2oF1J9EO8w
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2017, 03:05:24 PM »
Looking at them, I think I like Master Mummy the best of all characters so far.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2017, 01:42:24 PM »
This month's issue of EDGE magazine features my favorite game on its cover, and talks a bit about control schemes, so I thought I'd mention that here.

You can, in fact, play ARMS with a single Joy Con, as well as a Pro Controller. However, while single Joy Con play does have all the commands mapped (you click the control stick to shield, a particularly odd choice), the article states that a player cannot stagger punches until the first punch has fully extended, which has to do with how punch curving works. When punching, the control stick becomes the method of curving rather than movement, which means you can't move one way and punch in the other, but it also means that two punches can't occur simultaneously. Of course, some of this might be mitigated with a Pro Controller, but I can see the same sort of issues popping up.

EDGE plainly states that ARMS is not as satisfying without motion controls.

EDIT: While I'm at it, I might as well mention the uploaded footage from the second day of the Sugo Ude Tournament, and discuss the Charging mechanic in a bit more detail. For those who aren't fighting game fans, please ignore this text. However, I'd like to focus in on what makes this game such a fascinating example of fighting mechanics, as well as highlight some of the depth that has not yet been explored. If you don't care about that, you can find part one and two of the Sugo Ude tournament (about an hour of pure fighting footage, no in-between commentary) here:
Part One: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_nqZHtJz5w
Part Two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWkm6Jly4dc

Some interesting notes, a lot of people started applying the Master Mummy strategy of double revolvers to Mechanica in this tournament, which did result in some wins. Mechanica's aerial movement is helpful for this strategy, and there were some great examples of aerial cancels into combos. However, the overall winner of the tournament was Ribbon girl, with a ditto match occurring in the finals that was pretty disappointing. You can clearly see the skill difference between the two players which is another example of how this game is NOT a glorified Wii Boxing.

An integral part of ARMS gameplay is the charging mechanic, which is something that many players were able to use to their advantage in the Sugo Ude tournament. I've mentioned it in this thread before, but I wanted to go into a bit more detail here, because the more matches you watch, the more you'll see why players are focusing in on the current "sets" of ARMS that come with certain characters, and why symmetry between ARMS can be a good or a bad thing.

Charging takes place one of two ways: when a player holds a specific input for a prolonged period of time, such as the shield, dodge, or jump buttons, or when a player performs two of the same input twice in a row, such as dodges or air dodges. The reason this is important is that, in order to charge your ARMS, you need to either put yourself in a vulnerable state (air dodging leaves the player open to an attack upon landing, shielding leaves a player open to a grab, charging an input leaves a player open to almost anything), or change the established rhythm of the game. Then, of course, there are the additional features of charged ARMS that greatly factor into being able to counter and surmount enemies.

One of the most exploited characters for the charge mechanic out of all of the more recent gameplay has been Min Min for very obvious reasons: her grab automatically powers up her left "dragon" arm, which then leads to extended charges on the equipped left ARM. When charged, Min Min's left ARM deals roughly three times as much damage, although this may change depending on the ARM equipped- most Min Min players have opted to use the Chakram on the left ARM because of its excellent mobility, but other examples, such as Ribbon Girl's Slapamander, possess the same triple-damage property. On the other hand, there are some ARMS with extremely high damage output that don't get a damage boost when charged- for example, the electric-attribute Revolver used by Mechanica remains at a substantial 70-35 per first and second hit (if you miss the first of the three revolver shots but connect the second, it will still deal 70 damage. If you hit with all three, the first deals 70, second 35, and third 35), but it does gain the elemental electric damage, which causes both of the opponents' ARMS to enter a damaged state. Master Mummy's "Giant" ARMS deal 110 damage per hit, but gain super armor of their own upon being charged as well as 20 additional points of damage. However, all ARMS extend at a faster rate when charged, which can result in the game looking rather hectic.

With all this talk of the benefits of charging, you might think the only way to properly use your ARMS is to charge them, but this isn't the case. As seen in the Sugo Ude tournament, there are traditional fighting game archetypes that depend heavily on the choice of ARMS- however, what is absolutely awesome is that a character's traditional role can be subverted with these choices. Having a Master Mummy with revolvers doesn't allow him to take advantage of his healing ability or the charging properties as much, but it does essentially transform him into a "rushdown" type character- without the need to charge his ARMS in order to power through enemy attacks, he can cover a huge amount of the stage space and consistently hound the opposing player with roughly six attacks per two staggered punches. This doesn't even factor in stage choice, in which Master Mummy can take advantage of both his healing and rushdown properties thanks to stage obstacles, and maybe even gain more aerial mobility thanks to stage elevation.

But if there's one thing that players haven't been able to take advantage of in a multitude of characters, its their defensive properties. Helix players have rarely used his shrinking ability to dodge attacks, but his elongating abilities have been used even less so. Spring Man remains extremely underused in general, but rarely have players been able to execute his "shockwave" gimmick that repels incoming attacks, partially because charging in general has rarely been utilized, (because, unlike Min Min, Spring Man's shockwave only executes after his ARMS have been charged), but also because players haven't had the chance to really experiment with the design of the characters. Min Min's kicks, another huge part of her arsenal, have not been utilized in a single match I've seen, because they rely on leaving yourself vulnerable in order to execute.

In other words, while the Sugo Ude tournament has allowed players the chance to experiment a great deal, ARMS depth is still a bit elusive, and many matches appear to be heavily reliant on aggressive play rather than defensive options. Like many of you, I'm interested in getting a demo, if only so I can experiment with these options so that, in competitive play, I can execute them consistently. And that's where I'm really going with this: ARMS is not a fighting game light on mechanics or depth. If you are looking for a game where one player can ruthlessly exploit the other for not understanding the mechanics, ARMS is that game, but also with motion controls that are gimmicky and fun.

You have been warned.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 04:26:02 PM by Evan_B »
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Offline Phil

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2017, 02:11:57 PM »
Man, I gotta do everything in this topic. New ARMS related Nintendo Direct tomorrow. Will also have a new Splatoon 2 trailer.

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/864480646424559616
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2017, 03:12:52 PM »
I hope they announce the launch date for the much needed demo.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2017, 04:44:28 PM »
Phil, that's not news, it's confirmation of news that I'll cover tomorrow.

If I stay here, I get people meme-ing about a demo. If I go lurk in the ARMS discord, I get people meme-ing about the existence of doubles play.

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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2017, 11:54:51 PM »
What, no posts complaining about the demo time frame? I thought you guys were determined to ruin my fun no matter what.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2017, 02:04:14 AM »
The new characters are better than most of the previous characters.

Offline Order.RSS

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2017, 08:23:51 AM »
The Cobra guy has the best puns so I'll start with that one once I inevitably get this.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2017, 09:47:37 AM »
Super excited for the demo.  Gonna have to block off the time in my calendar.  I really like that's 2 weekends, but I would've preferred an offline demo.  Something where you can just play as Spring Man and Ribbon Girl with the 3 ARMS options each against a CPU or a 2P and that's it.  However, there's something about it being limited that just hits the part of my brain that activates the hype.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2017, 12:37:08 PM »
The Japanese ARMS twitter confirms that seven of the ten playable characters will be available for use in the Test Punch. Twintelle, Barq and Byte, and Kid Cobra won't be usable. If/when you join a lobby, the party search rules will be in effect- you will cycle through v-ball, skill-shot, one-on-one, and two-versus-two, potentially at random.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2017, 12:39:58 PM »
That sounds fair.  I'd hate to want to try one mode and not be able to find anyone.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2017, 06:24:39 PM »
Finally got around to watching the ARMS Direct yesterday. This game has definitely become a Must-Buy for when I get a Switch which is surprising since I'm not really a fan of fighting games. Leave it to Nintendo to come up with an interesting new take on the genre. A couple months ago I posted about how Smash Bros. is the next series I'd like to see Nintendo change up the formula like Zelda:BotW did to the Zelda formula. Watching the ARMS Direct gave me a bit of a Smash Bros. vibe with it's different modes, items appearing in the fight, different stages with different hazards. It seems like it could have been the potential change-up I was asking for in Smash Bros.

Frankly, I figured when Mario Odyssey came out that it would be the game I'd most want to buy a Switch for but right now ARMS has suddenly got me thinking about buying a Switch early just to get it and be on the ground floor early of the game and not get left behind as others gain more experience with it. I didn't think that would be the case from its initial reveal. So, good on Nintendo and the development team in what they've done so far. Here's hoping the product is as solid as it looks and it gets the sales it would seem to deserve from this trailer.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2017, 04:29:14 PM »
Yeah, it's great to see they're really fleshing out the game with content. I'll definitely pick it up at some point.

Offline Soren

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2017, 06:44:35 PM »
So I'm looking at these controller layouts over on NintendoLife and for the life of me I can't understand why they mapped the punches on the face buttons, then nothing on ZL and ZR for the Pro Controller. I really hope you can re-map those controls.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/05/gallery_check_out_five_control_schemes_for_arms
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